I just want to make a FEC cavalry army so I can annoyingly say "it's morbin time" and then morb all over the place with the knights

@VinceVenturella

5 ай бұрын

THis is objectively correct.

Yay, like for Doug.

@ir1shcross

5 ай бұрын

❤❤

OLD WORLD! WOOHOOOO! Janky rules, missing sculpts, confusion, fear, desperation... The nostalgia is palpable.

What a jolly thing to wake up to, the noblest of all faction reviews 🎉

Love the shout out to Dice and Demons, great to shine a light on these smaller creators that are providing really great resources for the communtiy

3:22:07 Rules As Written, there's an argument that the Throne turns off OBR's trait. It should get an FAQ, though. Core Rules 1.6 States that when an ability is used, an effect is applied. Core Rules 27.0 states that allegiance abilities are split into two types: battle traits and enhancements, and you get to use them if all of the units in your army or whatever are from a single army. We have in the NULL MYRIAD subfaction rule on how "ignore" is can be used. Thus, Battle Traits are abilities, the Throne stops their usage if within range.

My Army Box is in the mail and i'm really excited to build em and paint up the new units to try. Its a shame the Terrorgheist options just don't seem great and i hope they errata that. The tinfoil option is Ushorans the big beefy monster right now to get those preorders and when he drops then we get some errata for the others. I've been working on using the beastflayer hero for a ghur style Ghoul Queen on Terrogheist and i hope eventually it sees some play.

Hearing Doug talk about transfering Noble Deeds points made me think of how sick it would be to have a Ghoulish Bard who preserves the tales of fallen heroes. Maybe even the Herald could be allowed to record deeds and score some when a nearby hero gains some.

I wonder if there is a really nice looking Knight (vampire or not) figure that you could put on the same size base as Usharon, and then alternate the model as you move it. Same with a nice noble cavalry etc... expensive but it feels like there is a lot of fun to be had with this army and its narrative themes.

Subfaction with +1 Damage, seems kinda nice. Now let me all tell you a story about a thing called bounty hunters. A long time a go, in a world far away. There was a thing called bounty hunters which, really where exterminators, since all they ever did was explode the peasant militia. Now this seems like proper bounty hunters!

Agree 1000% on USRs. Standardizing rules language is fine, but please don't make me dig in a book (or more than one!) to figure out what the things written on my stat card mean.

I think they are completely wrong about the delusion that give + to save. If you take that and put 6 bat knights on terrain. You are 3+ save ignore the first rend. And that is without using a si gle command points.

@TylerEmerson

5 ай бұрын

I can see Vince’s perspective re on average potentially throwing good money after bad. I think there are certain builds that make it compelling, though, especially lists with Ushoran. If running him, I’d always have +1 save from the Delusion, and then adjust the second according to the matchup. The potential of having him at base +2 save against shooting, without any Mystic Shield or Finest Hour, is outstanding, especially with 5+ ward (potentially 4+) + up to 3D3 healing in your hero phase.

Great show as always! Btw, "victuals" is pronounced "vittles," and just means food. In fact, "vittles" is an accepted (but nonstandard) spelling of the same word. Daily trivia achieved 🙂

@VinceVenturella

5 ай бұрын

Thanks for that!

@kellyhoesing2573

5 ай бұрын

Gotta get them vittles and grits

I share Vince's distaste for USRs... games that lean heavily on them like 7th 40K and Star Wars Legion have always been a struggle for me. Love the warscroll/datasheet model of recent GW games

@stephenmercerProductions

5 ай бұрын

Seems to work well in malifaux but they don't have 75...

@starslayer2438

5 ай бұрын

I think USRs can work pretty well if the game uses 10-20 of them. 30 as an absolute maximum. If it has more, it should not use them. Core rules for 10th edition 40k are in the right spot for them.

Man not sure what it is exactly but I have never been a fan of the terrorgheist / zombie dragon kit. I am just going to get that new Stormcast hero on dragon and put him on a bunch of crumbling bloody ruins on the terrorgheist base. That is what FEC would see in battle anyhow.

You’re awesome Vince but your opinion on Ushoran’s new model is factually wrong

Early thought on universal special rules - they are not bad, how GW uses them is bad. Other games use them, as you said, summarise them on the unit and have a living rulebook that has them with expanded definitions and clarifications on interactions (not in yet another document). Same for limiting rules , it doesn't, new rules can be added if you aren't locked to printed books, another GW problem. Also as someone who loves WFB, the opportunity to revise the rules and use dynamic and interesting new ways of playing rank and flank, other games are doing it. Bring in players from total war, and bring in new players. If you want the old rules stick them out again, I and others still have mine, why I would buy a tweaked version? Feels like a missed opportunity

@redsven7624

5 ай бұрын

Great review, picking up my box tomorrow. Definitely the army I am going to try have painted for 4th. Pondering a nice conversion for a "battle standard" for that item

Love seeing my boy Dougy D Fresh! Great pick for the show! Kelly still rocks the best army since 2016 shirt that Doug sold!

lance is an USR that have an additional rule to it (armour bane) so you need to have 2 rules in mind for one USR rule. feels like the old world will get even more complicated then any excisting game from GW,

One thing I noticed and grinds my gears. Cryptguard has 2" range, while Stormvermin were nerfed to 1". Why they do this to my boys. Those are halberds dammit

@Scarycrow89

5 ай бұрын

Maybe because of their "+1 range for each 10"?

@fokin_skaven

5 ай бұрын

@@Scarycrow89 Oh right, I actually forgot about that, fair. It's mostly my ocd need for weapon range consistency. While very niche, I would like to see halberds just be 2" base.

UM AKCHUALLY - Yeah, chaos may be ordered and predictable, but their *goals* are undoing the order of the world

@VinceVenturella

5 ай бұрын

and replacing it with their own particular very, very, very strict order.

How y'all feel about using the sword cryptguard as basic ghouls if someone doesn't like the old models? The cryptguard have the same weapon profile regardless so with different weapon load outs they'd be easily identifiable as the two different units.

@VinceVenturella

5 ай бұрын

I'm down with it.

The -2 Bravery Monsterous Rampage is only compelling to trigger Ushoran's fight last. You can -3~-5 Bravery multiple units to force the fight last which is reasonable even against 10 bravery especially starting the 2nd combat with ushoran brining them down to at best a 6 id the rampage goes off. Units running away is a bonus and helps sure up your horde matchups but really youre playing that out of a coma dream of 2019 where you play activation wars and your opponent wonders why they brought dice to the table.

Vince I can’t disagree with you more about Defend Our Lands (+1 save). You can get so many wounds so cheap that any amount of durability increase makes a big difference. And on bigger models like kings on TGs and Ushoran you can really stack it. I played one game against this army and a TG had a 4+ save after my Varanguard applied their -3 rend… had he been able to all out defense it would’ve been. 3+. More importantly you will never need +1 charge as your units will get so close when they respawn it’s sort of a waste comparatively.

@BR4IN1N4J4R

5 ай бұрын

I can see both sides. Yes, the respawn can give you some shuffle tricks to get you closer while the +1 Run and Charge is kinda just good 99% of the time. Personally, I'd give this to Ushoran for his bubble and just have Feast Day up army-wide

@Enballgroda1

5 ай бұрын

Of course, +1 to run and charge is always good, I won't dispute that. But it's not as auto-pick as Vince seems to think in my mind.@@BR4IN1N4J4R

If I am not wrong, you cannot heal units that are summoned in the same turn using courtiers. Healing happens in hero phase, resurrection at the end of the movement phase

@joshcatron4510

5 ай бұрын

Both are movement, they stack

Not sure if I understood what Tyler meant by getting shorter charges. So if I returned a unit of 3 knights for example, the unit has to be placed 9" away from enemies. But, then I can top the unit off using the return model mechanic and THOSE models can actually be placed closer than 9" to an enemy model?

@TylerEmerson

5 ай бұрын

Yep that’s it. :)

@manga3040

5 ай бұрын

​@@TylerEmersonAwesome! Thanks good sir.

Really looking forward to seeing how Well flayers are going to do. People in the FEC fb group all Seem to Think they are overpriced and bad

The reason Defend The Realm can be good is because the choice happens so late that you can look at your opponent's army and see how much rend they have, and decide if it'll make a difference or not

I'd say Sam did the left one (pink redhead), Jon did the middle one, Vince did the right one (I think I recognize the copper style). I might be wrong :) I have to say that all of you could've painted any of those :D TBF: I've posted before I got to the Doug's answer moment :D FEC seems interesting at the moment! Ushoran will be an interesting mini for painting comps, but will look weird on the table (that's an assumption, as I haven't yet seen him on the table ofc)

1 sam 2 jon 3 vince Edit: Yay I was correct! what ticked me off was the metal work. sam and yours NMM styles are very distinct.

Vince rolls noble deed rolls like I roll 4+ rally😂

@VinceVenturella

5 ай бұрын

You aren't wrong!

Giggity giggity, it’s Thursday night and time for me to watch warhammer reviews!

I motion we pre-emptively nickname the Gorewarden to Goreden.

likes for Doug, happy for bonus dogs content

Out of interest what is more NPE, the Cardinal's "your command ability might not work" or Lumineth's "your command abilities cost more"?

@VinceVenturella

5 ай бұрын

Tough call, both are pretty rough, but I think I would come down on the LRL ability.

What happed to the Grymwatch? Underworlds band?

@VinceVenturella

5 ай бұрын

They got removed as they are no longer available.

My reading of this book is that Oprah is handing out Noble Deeds if you build your army properly, and then you’re bringing back Horrors or Flayers every turn and doing a million damage. Plus all your summons should be getting a 3” charge. This book could be a problem…

@TylerEmerson

5 ай бұрын

Yeah that’s the clear potential issue with the book, but I think there’s obvious things that can be done to bring it in line, if it ends up being out of line. My personal praise of the book comes with that asterisk. And we saw the potential in the very first batrep on Season of War, but we also saw the potential for it to go the other way: the game would’ve been over quick if Jordan had won priority R2.

Is a list about 200 ghouls for 1600 Points with some thinks playable?

Old World is complicated yes, but that’s fine, not every game needs to be simple, it’s another different spread for my toast that is miniature Wargaming.

@redscope897

5 ай бұрын

People saying they want to bring back fantasy with the old rules are now faced with just how complex it is compared to newer games. I quite like how GW are are refining the old rules while still trying to stay true to the spirit of them. I might change that view once we start playing of course and find it to complex to remember everything lol.

@CinderfallGaming

5 ай бұрын

@@redscope897 like any game it’s as complex as you make it. Most people will play in their own little bubbles and know the rules of the 4 armies they play against normally just fine. This need for knowledge of everything really only matters for competitive play and people in that type of play are generally deeper into a game. It’ll be fine.

@redscope897

5 ай бұрын

@@CinderfallGaming You are right to be honest I miss and forget rules all the time in other games frankly it does not matter as long as your having fun.

Vince my bro iv heard this one too many times and its "Im ganna end this guys whole career" please rewatch the rap battle if u doubt me. Love u man my Mr Vandresen of WH painting (hippy teacher off Beavis and Butthead)

Honestly, the Noble Deeds mechanic seems to be a Dud in general. Like Slaaneshi Depravity Dice it just isn't as good as it is supposed to be in theory.

I dont know what I like more - Flesh-eater Courts or Warhammer Weekly.

Greenish zombie pirate woman with (partly) purple cloths? Do you know Rottytops from the Shantae game series, Vince? Because your bust reminds me of a serious / non-cartoonish Rottytops.

@VinceVenturella

5 ай бұрын

I do not. :)

@starslayer2438

5 ай бұрын

I figured it was probably a coincidence, but I thought it was worth asking. :D

To my knowledge, the Axe dude, if you just kill him, he can't use his ability so there's that limitation with his save/wounds

@fokin_skaven

5 ай бұрын

Shouldnt be so. If the damage is allocated, then you roll in the end of the phase

@VinceVenturella

5 ай бұрын

Yeah, if he puts the effect on them, it should trigger, could be an FAQ to make sure.

@MKDietz

5 ай бұрын

@@VinceVenturella samme with Neferata, the trigger for the ability can be open, but in order for the ability to be used, the warscroll has to be on the table. No warscroll can use an ability if its dead

Hail doug!

I dont think Skaven will be the 4th ed bad guys, as in every single AoS edition it was a new faction. Khorne mortals in 1st, Nighthaunt in 2nd, and Kruleboyz in 3rd. Yes Technically Kruleboyz are not a new faction, but cmon

@VinceVenturella

5 ай бұрын

THat's why I think they will, because it will be a full line refresh (like Necrons in 40k)

Vince is the first person that ive heard saying he didnt like Ushoran

@VinceVenturella

5 ай бұрын

It's the pose, the model has such great features and an awful pose.

@igorcomedyman3160

5 ай бұрын

@@VinceVenturella I agree that he's posing like his not on the battlefield. But it's such a regal pose, and it emphasize his delusion

Can't you just get that Age of Darkness Horus Heresy box and start there?

@VinceVenturella

5 ай бұрын

Is it still available?

I feel so vindicated when Vince and I have the same take. The old world special rules seem like an absolute nightmare. I saw those grail knights and knew the old world was not going to be for me.

@dantheultimate2497

5 ай бұрын

Yeah, I have nothing against USR's. Actually I think they can benefit a game system greatly, provided that they are still written out on the datasheet. In 8th edition 40k they used a lot of very similar or identical rules and gave them different names, which just made it harder to understand what your opponent's army does. The MTG solution that Vince talked about seems very elegant and should be a no-brainer for rules writers.

@Nick_Patrick

5 ай бұрын

@@dantheultimate2497 I 100% agree. As it is it I just think it would take me way to long to understand these rules.

I'm listening to the Universal Special Rules and I have the exact opposite take. I absolutely hate the Age of Sigmar "every unit has the full text of the rule". Especially when you start having different units having similar rules that are kinda the same but not but yes, and then you try to write a rule that interacts with all those rules but... No. Give me universal special rules every day of the week.

@nemo-no-name

5 ай бұрын

Just the idea that I have to read the ultra pointlessly long rules every time is highly annoying. Sure, Universal Special Rules may be in a different place, but at least they're universal and if well written, they will still be flexible enough.

@VinceVenturella

5 ай бұрын

I understand, that is why I support more standardized language as I said, but USRs are just a huge barrier of entry to new players, especially when they are in this number, it becomes something people forget, that slows the game, and that is ultimately opaque knowledge. Having the text on the game piece is just superior for the larger part of the casual fan base.

@nemo-no-name

5 ай бұрын

@@VinceVenturella true, I recognise that it's easier for first onboarding, but this isn't exactly a game that will be for casual players given the investment of money and time to have an army (even unpainted). And I would argue that in the long term it ends up hurting those same people as the rules end up over 30 books, with different erratas, and it just blocks them from actually learning the breadth of the game. What would be 1 or 2 special rules end up being 15 different special rules most of which are exactly the same but a few are just slightly differently worded and then you need to figure out if they still work the same or actually not.

@nemo-no-name

5 ай бұрын

@@VinceVenturella (also wanna add that while I disagree with you on this point, I overall hold you in high esteem and really enjoy hearing your argumentation and points)

Please balance Doug's audio, have to turn down when he speaks and up when others do :/

"No, because this is why magic is DUMB!" 😅

👍👍

There's at least 75 USR's so far. 😂

Gotta say, I'm fairly certain y'all are just straight wrong on the using Muster Guard on units that have been summoned with Summon Loyal Subjects. Summon Loyal Subjects brings in a NEW unit with half the models of the destroyed unit. Muster Guard returns SLAIN models to a unit. Nothing from the new, summoned unit has been slain.

@VinceVenturella

5 ай бұрын

It specifically mentions in the ability that brings the unit back that you can use the Muster Guard to restore the unit. It actually gives that text in the book.

Main guy on here us just negative and a downer on everything

@VinceVenturella

5 ай бұрын

Which one of us is the main guy? ;)

@RagnarokRPG

5 ай бұрын

@@VinceVenturella who's name is on the cast..........

@VinceVenturella

5 ай бұрын

@@RagnarokRPG I hope I didn't come off as negative. I actually like the book quite a lot, I tried to talk about all the good stuff and call out the bad stuff, normal stuff. I apologize if there was negativity unintended.

@RagnarokRPG

5 ай бұрын

@VinceVenturella no need to apologise you have your opinions which you are entitled to and I'm entitled to mine about the video. First I've watched of yours so a little bit of a shame but is what it is

@VinceVenturella

5 ай бұрын

@@RagnarokRPG All fair, but I also know I had a rough day yesterday pre-show and I always try to keep that separated from my attitudes on the show, I never want anyone, especially the first time they show up, to have a bad time. SO I apologize if some of that leaked through. In the end, I do like the book quite a bit, though there are some challenges, but that's every book.