Fitting the Walls | TRC Van Conversion 16.0

Тәжірибелік нұсқаулар және стиль

There is not a single flat surface in this van but that just provides more of a challenge. Beginning to think a horsebox would have been easier! :-)
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Bosch 18v Circ Saw - amzn.to/2G6TyQS
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Altro Wood Safety Flooring - Mountain Oak
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Dometic Fridge - amzn.to/2t3Od8n
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CTA Swivel Seat - amzn.to/2qqZ63y
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Пікірлер: 127

  • @nicomartnez
    @nicomartnez6 жыл бұрын

    Awesome. It's great to see someone who takes his time and thinks before each step of the process. I've seen so many camper van projects way more expensive that cannot compete with this.

  • @sharonbice4119
    @sharonbice41196 жыл бұрын

    As usual, this video has been soooooo helpful for me! Thanks for your detail on methods, tools, tips and tricks. I have begun work on my own cargo van and I will be learning these methods by doing-am not an experienced carpenter. Because you've given us so much detail, I've got the confidence to go for it...and hopefully not spend tons of time "figuring it out". Enjoy, looking forward to your next van video!

  • @bencuraza6503
    @bencuraza65034 жыл бұрын

    NEW Sub and 2-years later after your Vid, I just bought my high top cargo van and your vid has given me a more concrete visual then other channels how to approach and start my walls being that I have NO skills for my conversion. BIG THANK YOU!! I will have to Binge watch how you did your Ceiling as well as your entire Conversion. From California.

  • @longhairmullet
    @longhairmullet6 жыл бұрын

    Well I’ve followed every aspect of your van conversion and you make it look so easy. Ive subscribed so I can watch again and again in hopes it well become cear on how to proceed with my own DIY or DIMyself. I really appreciate you showing the tools you use as well, ever detail helps, THANKS!

  • @cynthiaarmstrong7972
    @cynthiaarmstrong79723 жыл бұрын

    These are some of the best DIY instructions on KZread!

  • @simonrutherford5738
    @simonrutherford57385 жыл бұрын

    I’m well impressed. I’m currently building my sprinter and struggling putting up the pine strip ceiling and dreading doing the walls as my van is all windows. This video has helped me get a plan to tackle that task. Thank you.

  • @086DEN
    @086DEN5 жыл бұрын

    I'm enjoying your very informative videos lad, no bs, just simple explanations and advice and plenty of normality thrown in, thanks for that, I am just starting my own van (Nissan Interstar), so I will be dipping into your channel as I go, well done you.

  • @wateronthefloor
    @wateronthefloor6 жыл бұрын

    You are all going to have an amazing summer in that van! My wife and I recommend Wooda campsite near Bude (Cornwall). It’s great for families and near to some wonderful beaches 👍🏼

  • @adnawWW
    @adnawWW6 жыл бұрын

    I have been watching your want to me is a meticulous build and find it to be so precise that you could use it for a recording studio. To me it appears that it is going to be very comfortable when completed. Good job.

  • @poklop84
    @poklop846 жыл бұрын

    This is super helpful as I am gathering mental strength to do this myself. Thanks!

  • @frankmcginley
    @frankmcginley3 жыл бұрын

    Great video thanks. Looking to buy a van and couldn't decide if I should buy already converted or do it myself. You have convinced me because a) You don't know what issues lurk in someone else's build if they cut corners and b) You get your own look and functionality..and c) Alwasy good to give yourself a challenge. Thanks again.

  • @johndillingham3679
    @johndillingham36796 жыл бұрын

    Really good job. Looking forward to the next video.

  • @christopherbushrod1571
    @christopherbushrod15712 жыл бұрын

    Now I'm seeing your videos. Absolutely fantastic job keep up the good work

  • @ltheo2000
    @ltheo20006 жыл бұрын

    Great job, looking forward for the next video! Cheers

  • @AndyUK-Corrival
    @AndyUK-Corrival6 жыл бұрын

    Looks brilliant, really neat job.

  • @VANESSASVANLIFEJOURNEY
    @VANESSASVANLIFEJOURNEY4 жыл бұрын

    *everything looks amazing*

  • @mikedeman5351
    @mikedeman53516 жыл бұрын

    Lovely job. The wall detail works well. :)

  • @stephenwgreen78
    @stephenwgreen786 жыл бұрын

    It's coming along. All down hill now. Thanks for another great video

  • @nastasiaj
    @nastasiaj6 жыл бұрын

    Love love love your vids. Thank you so much! Really wonderful.

  • @pauls466
    @pauls4666 жыл бұрын

    Gosh Man you are a Master, This kind of quality will never come in a factory RV . I build 6-7 campervans and even if I take the best things of everithing I ever build I still cant come half way to the quality that you do. I start to hate you ! Keep up the good work Grts Paul

  • @thatwasthedaythatwas
    @thatwasthedaythatwas6 жыл бұрын

    Now that's exactly the info I was after re. Boxing the windows! Keep up the great work Tim!

  • @kenparsons1396

    @kenparsons1396

    4 жыл бұрын

    Matt Reade quick question why does the router not cut into window sill? Thanks

  • @thatwasthedaythatwas

    @thatwasthedaythatwas

    4 жыл бұрын

    ken parsons Im not quite with you. Can you give me a time stamp as to your query? and expand a little more on your question?

  • @kenparsons1396

    @kenparsons1396

    4 жыл бұрын

    Matt Reade hi just seen video of Tim cutting the panel for the window, I’ve never used a router before and was wondering, why,when he cuts the panel it doesn’t mark the window sill he had installed before

  • @thatwasthedaythatwas

    @thatwasthedaythatwas

    4 жыл бұрын

    ken parsons Ah right. There is a guide/roller on the router bit

  • @simono463
    @simono4635 жыл бұрын

    Awesome video. Well done van looks great. Ill be doing mine the same

  • @derjohanson93
    @derjohanson936 жыл бұрын

    Hi we building a van right now as well and are really thankful for your vid's. Could you maybe make a episode about electric/ power/lights and wires. Would be really helpful. Thank you and keep your work going

  • @barryjameson3113
    @barryjameson31135 жыл бұрын

    You don't have to leave the boards out to use as templates for the other side. Just use the "Cut outs" from them and viola!

  • @moldingpro7208
    @moldingpro72086 жыл бұрын

    Fun series!

  • @Ikigaifishing
    @Ikigaifishing Жыл бұрын

    Love the videos!! Just didn’t understand how you did the window frames!

  • @scottjohnson2841
    @scottjohnson28416 жыл бұрын

    Looks great.

  • @TheDaf95xf
    @TheDaf95xf6 жыл бұрын

    Fantastic job..........😊 Thumbs up from me 👍

  • @UKReloader
    @UKReloader6 жыл бұрын

    The van is really starting to look amazing🖒🖒🖒 fancy doing mine for me?😂😂😂😂

  • @joanneroyle7371
    @joanneroyle73716 жыл бұрын

    Videos are never long enough

  • @jl8101
    @jl81015 жыл бұрын

    Well done👍👍👍👌

  • @tony8163
    @tony81636 жыл бұрын

    Hi Tim, great vid. Just a bit of friendly advice - the sound level of your voice is quiet compared to music (on my TV anyway). Cheers

  • @SKWDMDYT
    @SKWDMDYT6 жыл бұрын

    Really really nice job! As I contemplate my future van conversion, was much of the wall system preplanned or did you figure out solutions as you went along? Wondering also if you considered a few dabs of adhesive on the battons to prevent the possibility of screws coming loose like in factory RV's?

  • @victoriacooper8180
    @victoriacooper81806 жыл бұрын

    Quick question, what thickness plyboard did you use for the walls? Thanks

  • @cathrynbagley8005
    @cathrynbagley80056 жыл бұрын

    Looking good =)

  • @colingmaccoll
    @colingmaccoll6 жыл бұрын

    I've been using a kreg pocket hole jig for years, keep the budget down by buying generic pocket hole screws not the kreg branded ones! Good work as normal, keep cracking on 😊

  • @MichaelJones-rs5ce
    @MichaelJones-rs5ce Жыл бұрын

    Epic video. Can anyone suggest how to hide the screws? I'd normally use wood filler but not sure that would withstand the constant vibration of a van? cheers

  • @nomadicphotosophy
    @nomadicphotosophy4 жыл бұрын

    Hi, Nice video series! I would like to ask something.. How wide is the interior with the finished walls on the floor level? Thank you!

  • @rjm5439
    @rjm54395 жыл бұрын

    RJM@54 2/11/2019 are you going to keep and use the double doors at the end of the van or cover them up and leave just the windows exposed for more lite

  • @bethaneybennett1768
    @bethaneybennett17686 жыл бұрын

    Could you do a 2017 restoration round up for the year, please :)

  • @hansillguth5834
    @hansillguth58345 жыл бұрын

    I gave up on my Van Conversion until I watched your KZread Videos.Thanks a lot for encouraging me to carry on with my Camper Conversion. Was stuck where to go next.Just one Question, when do I install electrical wires and Gas.

  • @TheRestorationCouple

    @TheRestorationCouple

    5 жыл бұрын

    I did wiring for lights and switches first by threading through conduit hose. That said quite a few bits ran in some trunking within top cupboards through to kitchen area. Gas was last, and within the kitchen units.

  • @sandysutherland2182
    @sandysutherland21826 жыл бұрын

    How did you work out the profile around the wheel arches?

  • @frankdevos1965
    @frankdevos19656 жыл бұрын

    Great explanatory vids you make, thank u for that. What's the name of the special head for your cutter to cut out the timber nearby the window? grtz Frank

  • @TheRestorationCouple

    @TheRestorationCouple

    6 жыл бұрын

    If s a flush trim router bit. Has a bearing at the end and straight cutter.

  • @user-sw1oh1ys2w
    @user-sw1oh1ys2w6 жыл бұрын

    Great! What is the material on the wall?

  • @adnawWW
    @adnawWW6 жыл бұрын

    Wondering did you at times use self tapping screws?

  • @AndyTaylor_Paintguy
    @AndyTaylor_Paintguy6 жыл бұрын

    Looks great, nice workaround for that pillar. Do you plan to glue & pin the ply to the boxing around the window or does it seem solid enough?

  • @TheRestorationCouple

    @TheRestorationCouple

    6 жыл бұрын

    There will be a trim which will join the two however pretty much solid as it is.

  • @sharonmacs2992
    @sharonmacs29924 жыл бұрын

    Hiya Can I ask what blade you used in your circular saw to cut the grooves in the ply please? I don't have the luxury of trial and error in my project. I've been struggling to find practical info on what blades are good for what surface.... never mind the application Thank you for your time

  • @russella622
    @russella6226 жыл бұрын

    How did the sound deadening dodo mat do? Looking at getting the same stuff but wondered how well it worked keeping the sound down. Great channel, really helpful.

  • @TheRestorationCouple

    @TheRestorationCouple

    6 жыл бұрын

    It helped but to be honest an big empty van is always quite noisy. With all the insulation I think I could have got away without it but hard to know in hindsight.

  • @edwardmilsom4760
    @edwardmilsom47604 жыл бұрын

    Tim, how did you make and secure the window boxes ? Brilliant videos, I'm off to buy a wizards tool for my router, what a great tool, thank you. Ed, well impressed.

  • @HolisticPioneer

    @HolisticPioneer

    4 жыл бұрын

    I am also desperate to find out! && More about that tool - I don't think I have ever seen a jig saw you can put a bearing on! Wow'd by this video & build!

  • @sandysutherland2182
    @sandysutherland21826 жыл бұрын

    Goodness me! As you insert all that cladding it starts to ‘close in’ doesn’t it?

  • @Michh91
    @Michh9110 ай бұрын

    Just curious with the recycled plastic insulation, with that touching the metal, won’t that cause the vapour to enter the van? Thanks in advance!

  • @johnclinton5617
    @johnclinton56174 жыл бұрын

    On the walls is the just foil bubble wrap stuff?

  • @maken6044
    @maken60445 жыл бұрын

    Hello Nice videos and great build. Whats the deal with all the screws that have perforated your vapour barrier?

  • @bexnut

    @bexnut

    3 жыл бұрын

    Screws plug their own holes and seal the vapour barrier - no moisture is permeating a screw perforation.

  • @joehunter6828
    @joehunter68286 жыл бұрын

    What fasteners did you use to secure the 12 mm battens to the van? These videos are VERY helpful btw, so thank you!

  • @TheRestorationCouple

    @TheRestorationCouple

    6 жыл бұрын

    Some self drilling screws but sikaflex adhesive along the length. The screws are really just to clamp in place, the adhesive is more than adequete on it's own.

  • @dibley1973
    @dibley19736 жыл бұрын

    Loving your videos and the production quality is getting better with each video you edit. When you get chance/spare cash, it may be worth investing in some kind of clip on radio mic or something so your voice volume is not consistent?

  • @TheRestorationCouple

    @TheRestorationCouple

    6 жыл бұрын

    In this video the rode mic snapped off the hot shoe so most is on the camera mic. We have a couple of wired lab mics but but of a pain with this sort of work. New mic for the next vid. 👍

  • @dibley1973

    @dibley1973

    6 жыл бұрын

    The Restoration Couple I can imagine anything wired is impossible. Pain the other snapped. Looking forward to next video. Btw, like the honesty when something goes a bit ary and you are up front about it. I know now it's not just me these kind of things happen to! Many others don't mention the bits that go wrong, but we learn as much help from what someone does wrong as does right! Keep it up. Great vids.

  • @mperson91
    @mperson913 жыл бұрын

    What are the wall panels called and where did you get them?

  • @chrisearle1357
    @chrisearle13576 жыл бұрын

    Hi. Love the van videos. I'm about two stages behind you and your tips/instruction have been brilliant for me. Just out of interest...what's your "proper" job? Cheers Chris

  • @TheRestorationCouple

    @TheRestorationCouple

    6 жыл бұрын

    Thanks. Glad they are helpful. Photographer (when not distracted by DIY/van)

  • @chrisearle1357

    @chrisearle1357

    6 жыл бұрын

    Interesting. I'm doing my conversion so that I can travel UK and Europe taking landscape photographs. Trying to add landscape to my sports and portrait portfolio

  • @bencuraza6503

    @bencuraza6503

    4 жыл бұрын

    The Restoration Couple WOW, for me that is Very Inspiring starting my NO skills Conversion. You given me Hope to Rise to the Occassion.

  • @sullyeveryday2690
    @sullyeveryday26906 жыл бұрын

    What type of wood did you use for the panels? Do you have all the specifications of the battens? Looks great!

  • @TheRestorationCouple

    @TheRestorationCouple

    6 жыл бұрын

    Walls were 9mm plywood and the battens just strips of 12mm ply.

  • @Nick23Wood
    @Nick23Wood6 жыл бұрын

    Great look and finish - also like your methodology - yes you have a plan - but when confronted with feedback from the real world you are not afraid to be creative and make changes. In my van I have covered all the panelling (underneath) with 5mm Aquastop (as used under laminate flooring) It stiffens the whole panel - changes the acoustic feel, adds more insulation, yet adds no weight, and is reasonably priced. I would oil the wood rather than paint - but that is a matter of taste, are you going to do it all one colour? How deep are the routed groves?? and Yes Please a video on the nibbler attachment.

  • @TheRestorationCouple

    @TheRestorationCouple

    6 жыл бұрын

    Whole van will be white with solid wood units which will be oiled/waxed. Grooves I guess are probably around 1/3 the thickness of the ply so 3-4mm.

  • @andrewmodelly6432
    @andrewmodelly64324 жыл бұрын

    Can I ask what are material are you using for your ceiling is it shiplap. And what is the wall paneling made out from. Thanks Andrew

  • @TheRestorationCouple

    @TheRestorationCouple

    4 жыл бұрын

    All in the videos. Ceiling 8mm pine t and g, walls 9 or 12mm ply with routered grooves.

  • @Djpedla
    @Djpedla5 жыл бұрын

    Hi Tim, sorry for bothering you again. I'm interested to know how the ply panels for the wall were secured to the floor of the van? I can see in one of your previous videos you stick and drilled a small batten at the rear behind the wheel arch, but I can't see if and how you added a fixing batten along the rest of the floor.

  • @TheRestorationCouple

    @TheRestorationCouple

    5 жыл бұрын

    Yes I think I just ran a small batten screwed to floor along the bottom of wall to attach the wall ply to.

  • @flashback9966
    @flashback99666 жыл бұрын

    Just wondering could those shortish screws 'pop' at a later date. Would it have been prudent to Sikaflex the sheet ply to the ply battens as well?

  • @TheRestorationCouple

    @TheRestorationCouple

    6 жыл бұрын

    I am pretty certain they are not going anywhere now however nearly all of the panels will have units attached through them to the battens anyway which will clamp them further. Might be worth using adhesive for belts and braces though.

  • @flashback9966

    @flashback9966

    6 жыл бұрын

    I shall be panelling my van soon, so your video was most timely, however like you the weather doesn't respect us! I would like to add that I think I will go your route with painted panels, rather than the obligatory wood grain look.

  • @TheRestorationCouple

    @TheRestorationCouple

    6 жыл бұрын

    We will have solid wood cabinets and oak effect flooring so I think less is more when it comes to the walls.

  • @flashback9966

    @flashback9966

    6 жыл бұрын

    As a final note, I've decided not to glue my panels after all. I just know at some stage later I would have to run a wire or pipe behind one and that would be nigh on impossible. Really enjoying your videos by the way, keep'em coming:)

  • @baileytorrez2817
    @baileytorrez28173 жыл бұрын

    How did you fix the pieces of wood you are drilling the wall into? Did you drill them directly into the wall?? Maybe I missed this in a previous video?

  • @TheRestorationCouple

    @TheRestorationCouple

    3 жыл бұрын

    Batten supports are fixed to the van ribs first with bolts and adhesive.

  • @andybaker973
    @andybaker9732 жыл бұрын

    Where did you get the vee groove ply please. Can't find any ...😁

  • @TheRestorationCouple

    @TheRestorationCouple

    2 жыл бұрын

    Just made it with a router.

  • @samgoddard9738
    @samgoddard97386 жыл бұрын

    Great job! How did you handle the vents at the rear floor level? Did you cover straight over these or leave open?

  • @TheRestorationCouple

    @TheRestorationCouple

    6 жыл бұрын

    No vents in floor, do you mean the rear pillars?

  • @sullyeveryday2690

    @sullyeveryday2690

    6 жыл бұрын

    I believe Sam meant the pressure vents to shut the rear doors.

  • @samgoddard9738

    @samgoddard9738

    6 жыл бұрын

    Hi SullyEveryday, yes the pressure vents. Can they be covered over?

  • @sullyeveryday2690

    @sullyeveryday2690

    6 жыл бұрын

    I have talked to several people who have regretted covering those vents. I'm currently doing a van build and I am going to cover with panels then cut out a decent size hole. Several people who have covered it now have to open the sliding door to get the rear doors to close.

  • @mojitomaker
    @mojitomaker6 жыл бұрын

    Interesting that where the two pieces join, there isn't a groove. Had you considered putting a groove on the edge?

  • @TheRestorationCouple

    @TheRestorationCouple

    6 жыл бұрын

    There is on the back 4 panels. I cut down the middle of the groove near edge on each. The one below window is inside cupboard which is the only one I missed. 👍

  • @bvd1587
    @bvd15876 жыл бұрын

    Pro Tip #1: Buy a router for major wizardry!

  • @kenparsons1396

    @kenparsons1396

    4 жыл бұрын

    Hi never used a router before On the video when he cuts out window, why does it not cut into the window sill ?

  • @kenparsons1396
    @kenparsons13964 жыл бұрын

    Hi Tim, Never used a router why does it not cut into the window sill when cutting ? Thanks

  • @TheRestorationCouple

    @TheRestorationCouple

    4 жыл бұрын

    Certain bits have a metal bearing on them. This one had it on the bottom of the cutter therefor it rolled along the surface of the sun frame that was there.

  • @kenparsons1396

    @kenparsons1396

    4 жыл бұрын

    Great idea Is there a name for that router bit and thanks for your time

  • @TheRestorationCouple

    @TheRestorationCouple

    4 жыл бұрын

    ken parsons usually called flush trim bit. They tend to be the common ones included in basic sets.

  • @fritz4345
    @fritz43454 жыл бұрын

    Nice but how much heavier is the van now?

  • @TheRestorationCouple

    @TheRestorationCouple

    4 жыл бұрын

    Around 2750kg holiday ready. Nearer 2.5t when bed and seats out if I’m using it for ‘cargo’

  • @tomleyden979
    @tomleyden9796 жыл бұрын

    How did you attach the window frame to the window?

  • @TheRestorationCouple

    @TheRestorationCouple

    6 жыл бұрын

    It is independent from the glass itself. The box frame section is foamed in place and also joined to the ply. There will be some beading which forms the seal to the glass in the future.

  • @markpeacock6345
    @markpeacock63456 жыл бұрын

    Silly question can you use routers bits in a drill?

  • @TheRestorationCouple

    @TheRestorationCouple

    6 жыл бұрын

    Doubt it as the rpm of router much higher. Might test it out though however the drill would need to be constant 90 degrees to wood.

  • @therealmccoy2788

    @therealmccoy2788

    6 жыл бұрын

    Mark Peacock you would never be able to control it to any accuracy, never mind possible injury.

  • @tommyarno9935
    @tommyarno99354 жыл бұрын

    what's the wood with the ribbed pattern (cladding effect?) called? and where did you get it from?

  • @TheRestorationCouple

    @TheRestorationCouple

    4 жыл бұрын

    Made it. Just plywood.

  • @daviddredge1178

    @daviddredge1178

    4 жыл бұрын

    @@TheRestorationCouple Routed?

  • @TheRestorationCouple

    @TheRestorationCouple

    4 жыл бұрын

    David Dredge yes. Separate video in making them.

  • @Elldeeve
    @Elldeeve5 жыл бұрын

    What is and where do you get that cladding?

  • @TheRestorationCouple

    @TheRestorationCouple

    5 жыл бұрын

    Just softwood t and g. Any timber merchants.

  • @Elldeeve

    @Elldeeve

    5 жыл бұрын

    The Restoration Couple I actually meant the bit around the windows, I have since found video 15.0 where you use a router to groove ply, looks mint. These videos are so helpful. Thanks

  • @ivecamperbuild_thomas4084
    @ivecamperbuild_thomas40845 жыл бұрын

    We’re did you get the ply from

  • @TheRestorationCouple

    @TheRestorationCouple

    5 жыл бұрын

    Not sure. Just standard hardwood faced stuff from Wickes or builders merchants. 👍

  • @ivecamperbuild_thomas4084

    @ivecamperbuild_thomas4084

    5 жыл бұрын

    The Restoration Couple I will take a look in wicks thanks the nibblers are not bad but just watch the curves on any round corners with if being attached to a drill it’s a bit had to see the marking on the van

  • @WatersandWilderness
    @WatersandWilderness6 жыл бұрын

    I was concerned about using MDF board because of the Formaldehyde off-gassing. You indicated that you will be painting the MDF board. Will that keep the formaldehyde under control within the van? The biggest concern is exposure to formaldehyde gas that is emitted from the product. The glue used in MDF is usually urea formaldehyde (UF). UF is a solid chemical made from a mixture of urea and formaldehyde. Extra formaldehyde may be added to the urea to make a stronger bond. The more extra formaldehyde there is, the more formaldehyde will be trapped in the wood and later emitted as a gas. MDF made with UF may emit formaldehyde gas for months or years after it is manufactured. elcosh.org/document/2098/d001086/Medium+Density+Fiberboard+(MDF)+Safety+for+Carpenters.html?show_text=1

  • @TheRestorationCouple

    @TheRestorationCouple

    6 жыл бұрын

    There isn’t any MDF in the van. 👍

  • @WatersandWilderness

    @WatersandWilderness

    6 жыл бұрын

    The board that you used for the walls is a form of MDF board.

  • @WatersandWilderness

    @WatersandWilderness

    6 жыл бұрын

    Replacing traditional urea formaldehyde (UF) hardwood plywood construction with soy-based PureBond enables Columbia to eliminate any added formaldehyde from standard veneer-core and pMDI composite hardwood plywood core panels. That’s great news for our employees, our customers and the air we all breathe. www.columbiaforestproducts.com/product/purebond-classic-core/

  • @noelkealey
    @noelkealey6 жыл бұрын

    Are you concerned about condensation dripping down the glass and making contact with the window box, especially the lower section? Looks great.

  • @TheRestorationCouple

    @TheRestorationCouple

    6 жыл бұрын

    The bottom will be an oak sill and sealed to glass so at worst it will only sit in there. Hopefully the blinds/curtains will help reduce quite a bit too.

  • @cado153
    @cado1536 жыл бұрын

    Well done Tim, absolutely loving your videos which are each getting better than the last. Content, attention to detail, humour, camera angles, editing, music are all excellent. I keep scouring ebay looking for a good similar van that hasn't been damaged or done 250,000 miles! ... Keep up the great work Tim! Cheers, Doug

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