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@giuliyutiub

3 жыл бұрын

Owen you'll be remembered for your hideous war on women, in favour of regressive gender roles and dudes in a dress. Woman is not a costume. You're a disgrace

@JamesSmith-cx4pw

3 жыл бұрын

You claim to be against capitalism but here you are asking for money for the service you supply. That’s capitalism you hypocrite

@DeeDurbin

3 жыл бұрын

Dude you ARE the right.

@simonhughes6267

3 жыл бұрын

Owen jones is a terrible human being. He deserves no platform, the majority of society hate him.

@georgebowling842

3 жыл бұрын

Wow - here for the comments and not disappointed. Owen you must have zero self-awareness.

Anyone else jealous of the amount of books in the background ?

@lavandergoth

3 жыл бұрын

Ikr, I wish I were also in Judith Butler's bookshelf 😫

@nickbatt399

3 жыл бұрын

that many books makes my freaking heart pound

@katarinahinsey3931

3 жыл бұрын

Jealous that she's a book hoarder? No.

@justsomerandomname2067

3 жыл бұрын

Im jealous of people who want to and do read so many books

@phosphenevision

3 жыл бұрын

@@katarinahinsey3931 "hoarding" means you are excessively collecting things which have no use or value to you, i highly doubt butler doesn't make full use of their library, no one writes like they do unless they have extensive literary knowledge.

I need more content like this in my feed: slow, deliberate, tackling real issues both theoretically and practically with a feminist ICON. Especially interesting to hear how Butler's views have changed over the years.

@miagilaani5853

Жыл бұрын

I'm new to her work, how have her views changed tho?

@aspringephemeral

7 ай бұрын

yes! i truly appreciated hearing her in depth, andhow mindful and intersectional her thinking is now and how she admits, that her views have changed, and she became open to listening to others. some circles have written her off and called her a transphobe, which after truly hearing her out i find extremely unsettling and reactionary. she seems to be one of the few feminist scholars i have seen as well, that actively acknowledges that other cultures have languages for varying gender roles and identities. much of the discussion around this "newness" of this "emergence" of trans people is downright white centred and highly dismissive of indigenous cultural traditions and histories.

It's amazing to see how much self-reflection and humility someone like Butler is able to exercise despite her critical acclaim. Even the fact that she was willing to accept and evaluate her own earlier works on gender performativity based on criticism from the transgender community is also the sort of humility I think more academics and public figures need - and the fact that she speaks with such grace and poise. She's honestly such an inspiration. Thanks so much for doing this, Owen!

@ochsliker

3 жыл бұрын

*they

@HeyNonyNonymous

Жыл бұрын

Compare that to the complete inability of terfs to examine their own ideaology (or as Abigail Thorn would put it: their but hole...).

I'm happy to learn that Butler is my first non binary philosopher I've read. It's so great having representation of my gender in philosophy.

@ghettophilosoph29

2 жыл бұрын

She is a woman

@firouz4296

2 жыл бұрын

I'm happy that Butler is NOT the first non binary philosopher I've read. It's so great having Camille Paglia's representation of my gender in philosophy.

@kdixuebw7884bfb

2 жыл бұрын

Lol

@nylpurfi9896

2 жыл бұрын

@@firouz4296 look up what paglia thinks about allen ginsburg. I hope she’s changed her mind since then but…

@exhater7820

2 жыл бұрын

@@ghettophilosoph29 you admitted she was non bianary in another transphobic comment. Pick a side .

May I request more interviews with philosophers like this. So many amazing contemporary philosophers working on pressing issues which ought to be discussed.

@fe5018

3 жыл бұрын

@@sloppysecondssunak5920, thankfully plenty on the left do see Butler's waffle for the nonsense it is. I'd be mortified if this was the best the left had on offer; thankfully it's not.

@l.w.paradis2108

3 жыл бұрын

@@sloppysecondssunak5920 "Frames of War" and "Precarious Life" are absolutely brilliant and lucidly written books, with deep meditations on ethics and its relation to politics. I haven't been interested in the books Butler wrote that are always mentioned in connection with her.

@l.w.paradis2108

3 жыл бұрын

@@sloppysecondssunak5920 Have you read those?

@faris1902

3 жыл бұрын

@@sloppysecondssunak5920 its lovely that when i see comments like these, they are rarely ever backed up with substantive criticisms or counterarguments.

I'm in love with Judith Butler's background - so many books and so many bookcases! What a library!

@Johnconno

3 жыл бұрын

She's a big Mills + Boone fan.

@Grappapappa

2 жыл бұрын

Robin DiAngelo had a similar one behind her in one interview.

@marwar819

Ай бұрын

@@GrappapappaBooks cases behind speakers are the same shallow arrogant narcissism as trans ideology.

@sophiepooks2174

25 күн бұрын

@@Johnconno Takes one to know one ay?

@Johnconno

24 күн бұрын

@@sophiepooks2174 Not in this case. X

I think some ppl think this is the daily mail comments section.. Jokes aside thanks Owen for this free masterclass from Judith... As a gender and sexuality graduate student who's read Judith's work this is realllly valuable...!!!!

@effy7932

3 жыл бұрын

BHAHAHAHAHA

@samguest78

2 жыл бұрын

Haha so you’ve just dropped 40 grand down the drain on the most made up, unintelligent, useless jargon out there

@saywhaaat11

2 жыл бұрын

@@samguest78 lol ur cute.

@MajoraWaffle

16 сағат бұрын

​@@samguest78 seethe harder

“It’s always dangerous when a n American comes nd tell you what’s wrong in your own country” ♥️

@celiabarrett2107

Күн бұрын

Yes, we have countless examples of that. But new labour were always in love with the US.

Thanks for this interview. I liked that you made space for Butler to expound on your prompts, a pleasure to hear their mind at work.

The "B" in Butler stands for "Based".

@terrybunch7313

3 жыл бұрын

You will never pass

@minerva9104

3 жыл бұрын

@@terrybunch7313 return to the dark depths from whence you came, fiend.

@ShazyShaze

3 жыл бұрын

​@@terrybunch7313 back 2 /pol/

@terrybunch7313

3 жыл бұрын

@@ShazyShaze Back to tumblr

@SkyKidShyKid

3 жыл бұрын

@@terrybunch7313 you will never find love

This was incredibly interesting thank you for making this video! So many points and arguments I have never thought about before!

Butler's writings felt nearly impossible to fully comprehend when I was in college, but this talk was WONDERFUL and very easy to follow. Thank you so much for sharing!

@randalbudd8291

Жыл бұрын

I too found it dence . She makes you think .

@LizaFan

Жыл бұрын

One of my favorite moments in the second preface: "GT sometimes reads as if gender is simply a self-invention or that the psychic meaning of a gendered presentation might be read directly off its surface. Both of these postulates have had to be refined over time." I love their writerliness, that I can glean new insight, relative to the reading.

@rebal1681

8 ай бұрын

Because her writing is truly terrible.

@jennywren118

7 ай бұрын

If you've been persuaded to accept the incoherent and nonsensical ramblings of a pseudo intellectual cult leader, as legitimate and factually based observations, you have been successfully indoctrinated into a cult.

@bh8920

4 ай бұрын

I agree completely. Managed half of gender trouble and gave up in petulant self loathing for not being able to understand early gender theory by Judith.

I just wrote a final on her and nietzsche and this interview would've helped me so much lol I love her!

@fe5018

3 жыл бұрын

What do you love in particular? What resonated most with you that you lover her?

@zacharyzane9275

3 жыл бұрын

@j sauce idk wut u mean

@lamb4lifexox

3 жыл бұрын

What was the paper about ?

@amess3921

2 жыл бұрын

No way, me too! It's due in two days lol

@dinkypinky6520

Жыл бұрын

I Wana read it, send me a link.

That library... looks-like heaven. Can I move in?

Anger is only one possible reaction to fear, but when you are angry it's always a response to fear.

thank you SO MUCH for this interview - it’s really enriched my understanding of Butler’s theories and perspectives

Wow. I'm sure there are lots of well reasearched and based polite arguments in this comment section

@beejarny2097

3 жыл бұрын

Is it even bad?

@oxherder9061

3 жыл бұрын

Just went through it rn and its actually rly nice

@beejarny2097

3 жыл бұрын

@@deafflylii1 flag nonce lol

@NotADood

3 жыл бұрын

Most of it is shallow fawning.

@beejarny2097

3 жыл бұрын

@@deafflylii1 ok Gareth

Thank you very much for this video, it is so incredibly helpful and also warming to see how kind and humble Judith Butler is. I do have one question though: at some point, Butler mentions that there is a difference between understanding gender as a social construction on the one hand, and as a performance on the other hand. But they then let it go. Could anybody enlighten me on the difference, or mention a book they wrote which explains this difference? Thank you very much again!

Until I saw this video I thought surely she would rethink her take knowing how many rights have been taken from women, lesibien and gay people, even trans people and especially children because of this take

The echo chamber's deafening.

I'm so incredibly happy I found this interview! My bachelor thesis will be about feminist theory and gender theory. I started reading about Judith and her work, but seeing her on video and hearing her voice somehow makes her work more approachable to me. And having a clearer picture of what an author is like also helps in interpreting her writing

@richardott3706

3 жыл бұрын

That's a lot of preparation and reading just to become a taxi driver!

@kevtwine7445

3 жыл бұрын

What an absolute waste of time that dissertation will be 😂

@sorchacartoons7062

3 жыл бұрын

@@richardott3706 Somehow, the perception of third level education morphed from an institution of higher learning and the pursuit of knowledge into a promised job factory. But it isn’t a job factory. Whether or not you can get a job is irrelevant to the value of shared knowledge. Moreover, a lot of skills are transferable across fields. If you’ve spent 4 years training in presenting data, analysing information, writing reports, pitching ideas, thinking about problems in a creative and nonlinear way, - it therefore doesn’t matter whether you did a humanities class or a business class… you can get a job in any field with the right skills. It’s trendy to criticize university students for struggling to find high paying work or struggling to pay off their student loans, when it shouldn’t be the student’s fault the economy they’ve inherited is utterly pants.

@richardott3706

3 жыл бұрын

@@sorchacartoons7062 Well, and if you spent 3 or even 4 years regurgitating the tenets of a nonsensical pseudoscience and even went into massive debt just to do that, it shows that you are dumber than somebody who never went to university at all.

@chupacabraman01

3 жыл бұрын

These comments... the greatest modern scam is the argument that an education in humanities is wasteful. Klara, speaking as someone who did a humanities degree, your future is bright if you make it so. I'm now a user researcher, service designer and digital developer (self taught). These people will never appreciate what an education will equip you for.

They seem like such a lovely person!

I appreciate the humility and willingness to change that Judith displays in this conversation.

@georgemioch8981

10 ай бұрын

What humility? 🤣🤣🤣

@MajoraWaffle

16 сағат бұрын

​@@georgemioch8981 most intelligent TERF

But gender may not be the essential existential component of life that Judith insists it is. Gender could also be seen as much like fashion, which is a surface appearance aimed at getting attention and audience approval of sorts. It is dependent on creating a spectacle. Spectacles often are designed to make up for an inner lack, and ideology is always in need of spectacle. Spectacle is on the outside and it is associated with getting power , but the power comes at the expense of hard-won inner growth, because inner growth can never be the consequence of power, ideology, fashion or the adulation of audiences.

@lavendercommie

9 ай бұрын

Gender is offen like fashion to those who are allowed to express it in accordance to their sense of self

'I think I can situated myself as part of its beginning' -understatement much?

Dr. Stock and Judith Butler would have been better to bring together as guests for a debate. I believe Judith would crack , she keeps contradicting herself.

Judith Butler is a highly intelligent human that accepts You For You. Thanks for this Owen I thoroughly enjoyed listening to You & Judith, I wish More People where As understanding,open & accepting in this World.

@Akita538

Жыл бұрын

She is a highly intelligent human that accepts You For You as long as you slavishly accept whatever she says. Otherwise, she will try to pathologise you and _everything_ you say, and even your right to an opinion. Her treatment of J.K. Rowling in this video is shameful.

@rocksparadox

4 ай бұрын

Butler is a highly deceptive human who provides copium for those who can't accept the biological FACT that sex is determined by XY or XX chromosomes and can't be changed, no matter how much gender drivel and postmodern, cultural relativistic claptrap ''they '' produce.

She seems to organize her books by color to some degree. Telling

Truly baffled that people in the comments would disagree that Butler is a feminist icon! Gender Trouble was so seminal in changing how we interact with discussions of sex and gender and Butler has promoted feminism more than most public figures in most of our lifetimes. Excellent conversation and a must-listen!

@kraigetrueman1954

3 жыл бұрын

surviving sexual violence does not make you transphobic. stop using such baloney as cover for hatred.

@angrydonutface7420

3 жыл бұрын

They're transphobes who think that being trans and supporting the trans community is anti-feminist.

@njlloyd2881

3 жыл бұрын

People who want her to remove the label of being a feminist are always those who hate trans people. The same people call themselves feminists yet wouldn't want to be stripped of that label whilst simultaneously stripping Judith of the label. Supporting trans people doesn't mean you're no longer a feminist. These ppl couple trans female violence and cis male violence despite the stats of prisons not supporting that view. They just hate trans women full stop.

This is not feminism. It rips women of their rights.

@MajoraWaffle

16 сағат бұрын

🥱 oh look, a recent TERF comment on a 3+ year old video. which f*scist did you come from to raid this time, hmmm?

The great Judith Butler is non binary? Life is awesome.

@AmaranthOriginal

2 жыл бұрын

No spoilers! (Kidding)

@Grappapappa

2 жыл бұрын

Yes it is! This is so great!

I would love to hang out with Judith Butler - so interesting and inspiring

@TheNadiabear

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, jo hart, so would I.

@johart9994

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheNadiabear Judith is my go to 'dream' cup of coffee and a chat. Adorable .

"Sex is assigned by institutions" 🤭 Are we supposed to take JB seriously? Apparently, the sex of an infant is merely a consequence of 'social and legal' forces? What a ridiculous thinker! 😂

@agstinacueva1673

8 ай бұрын

Objectively it is. Sex assigned at birth is a mere bureoucracy that becomes part of your identity (or not). I was called a man for wearing men's clothes even though I have a vagina. Either you live under a rock or you are delusional.

A very deepening conversation for me. There is still so much more to learn and so many old assumptions to drop.

@Grappapappa

2 жыл бұрын

Name three.

@jinglejangle100

2 жыл бұрын

@@Grappapappa Name any three beliefs and I'll show you three assumptions.

I’m deeply fascinated by Judith Butler. I don’t question very much if I totally agree with her, but I apreciate the depth of her thoughts and culture. And what i love of her is the courage, politically, in many fields and her total humbleness.

loved this!! thank you for your work!

My favourite was at 8:49 where we just cut to Owen looking confused, nodding, then cutting away

Ha ha, 'sex assignment'. Right.

Really great. she's absolutely charming. Thank u!

@exhater7820

2 жыл бұрын

@@leafleafleaf9272 how . Could you elaborate?

Listening to this great person in quarantine is such a privilege ❤️

what a great discussion, thank you

omg Judith Butler is an OG , i'm well jel

Why do they confuse gender and sex all the time?

@chrisbaker3066

3 ай бұрын

Because THEY are ignorant of the facts!

@MajoraWaffle

16 сағат бұрын

​@@chrisbaker3066 tHe FaCtS

I love you, Judith. You've inspired me endlessly!

The first time I heard the interviewer here I was very worried he would continue to be very KZready in his demeanour (exaggerated delivery, constant, sort of "shouty" gestures) but fortunately he isn't as the interview progresses where he displays excellent research and interviewing skills. This mostly as a comment to those who might otherwise be discouraged from watching on.

@garyjones1737

2 жыл бұрын

Great comment, great abs

i'm with her on the idea of not minding the gender you're given in interactions with others. what this tells us about how gender is constructed, or rather what it points towards is fascinating and to experience that day to day is (i think) a gift.

@elizabethveldonstuff

3 жыл бұрын

@@deafflylii1 what?

@elizabethveldonstuff

3 жыл бұрын

@@deafflylii1 what are you on about?

@cfor8129

3 жыл бұрын

@@deafflylii1 ah, since you don't personally relate, it must be imaginary?

@elizabethveldonstuff

3 жыл бұрын

@@deafflylii1 i don't even know what you're on about, mate.

@cannibalholocaust3015

3 жыл бұрын

@@deafflylii1 YOU didn’t fight any wars and they weren’t for “freedom” but merely the power class exchanging blows in order to accrue more wealth and power. Yes Virginia that includes WW2.

Love you. Great interview.

this suicide trope is a bit old, and manipulative.

@TheCommono

8 ай бұрын

"old", "manipulative" Arguments don't die of old age. And whom is she manipulating and towards what??

Physical sex is not something 'assigned at birth.' it's something we're conceived with when a sperm cell unites with an egg cell. It is this biological reality which adds to the torment of those whose minds don't match up with it. 'Assigned at birth' is a highly misleading term that fails to get at the heart of the Trans dilemma.

That Library (w)holds the Mandate of Heaven :D *sniff*

Has she ever responded to Nussbaum's critique of her views?

How fascinating.....my factual comment was deleted almost immediately. This is not a discussion- it's just another echo chamber

@georgemioch8981

10 ай бұрын

They stand no chance in discussion…

@rachelusher5390

9 ай бұрын

mine was taken down too

@nickthepostpunk5766

6 ай бұрын

I agree.

I love the video, and Judith Butler is so cool and KIND! Thanks, Owen, for doing this ;)

"Assigned sex at birth" - I absolutely HATE this expression.

@TheLeksilijum

3 жыл бұрын

Well they observe, they assume, they assign. I mean countless of intersex people are getting assigned male or female at birth because those who observe don't know what they are doing in fact.

@tomjohnson6860

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheLeksilijum By 'countless' you're referring to something that is actually counted very effectively. It affects about one in one thousand births - roughly ten times rarer than Downs Syndrome.

@TheLeksilijum

3 жыл бұрын

@@tomjohnson6860 They are countless in the sense that they are not going to stop being born and that their number isn't limited. And I know they are rare, but actually roughly the same number as gingers. But what does that mean, exactly? What are you suggesting?

@Grappapappa

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheLeksilijum In Swedish "sex" means "six".

@TheLeksilijum

2 жыл бұрын

@@Grappapappa and how do you say пол ?

What do you mean by ”assigned at birth”?

@johnsmith7140

7 ай бұрын

Lol

@SkyeID

Ай бұрын

assigned at birth is when a doctor announces "it's a boy" or "it's a girl" as soon as a baby is born...and before if the parent got an ultrasound.

You should also get Wendy Brown on the show. Her books on neoliberalism are AMAZING.

Regarding trans rights, the issue isn't what someone like JK Rowling has or hasn't said - she may be right or wrong, I've read the opinions of respected biologists (eg Jerry Coyne) who says she's factually correct, and others who say she's mistaken. The issue is in how one responds to such arguments. There is an authoritarian glee with which some people put down those they accuse of being discriminatory. Gone is any nuanced argument. Instead, in the case of Rowling, it's "ban her books" etc...this isn't a sensible or intelligent way for adults to behave

@ignacia3628

3 жыл бұрын

We are in a time where we can't disagree or give opinions that don't match what a certain group believes, especially when those opinions come from a woman's mouth

@Kavafy

3 жыл бұрын

I don't think that's the problem with Rowling though - she's being doing this for years and had her factual mistakes pointed out to her a million times. After a certain point, it goes beyond "just making arguments" and it becomes using a privileged position as a celebrity to endorse oppression. Jerry Coyne isn't an expert on trans or gender issues in general so I don't think that using him works either.

@NotADood

3 жыл бұрын

@@Kavafy Calling her a terf, repeating "trans women are women," and telling her to sick girl ducks doesn't amount to having factual mistakes pointed out to her. That's all TRAs ever do.

This is so insightful and positively thought-provoking. Thank you.

Gender Trouble still being taught in my masters classes and here Judith Butler has long since moved on. So wonderful to hear their updated thoughts and reflections!

@jayamin1004

3 жыл бұрын

It is still taught on the Alevel course I teach... the auther says its 30 years out of date ha

@NoiseGrinder

3 жыл бұрын

@@jayamin1004 What a waste of time and money these courses are !

@honeychurchgipsy6

3 жыл бұрын

@@NoiseGrinder - what courses would that be?? All courses that use Butler's work, because neither of these commenters mentioned the type of course? I discovered Butler's work as Master's student on an English Literature course. I came via the idea of language as performative - which was the work of J.L. Austen.

@aalegr

3 жыл бұрын

Well, you know... philosophy is a long dialogue, so if you want to jump in or understand what is being discussed you have to know what have been said before.

@margaret000

3 жыл бұрын

@@aalegr thank you for explaining academia to me. I have to apologize. I mistakenly assumed it was clear from my interest and surprise at what is being discussed by Judith Butler in this video that my issue is not with learning what has come before, but with the fact that my syllabi have always stopped at Gender Trouble and made it seem like this 30 year old work was the most current and up to date material.

Can you interview Kathleen Stock please Owen.

@Grappapappa

2 жыл бұрын

I second this!! Preferrably with Butler on the other side.

@daisybe3736

2 жыл бұрын

@@Grappapappa As a trans person I can only vouch for that. 🙏

@Grappapappa

2 жыл бұрын

@@daisybe3736 As a Scandinavian heterosexual male, I am starting to feel that I shouldn't really say anything on these sorts of issues.

Gender performativity creates stereo types that are instructive to many aspects of trans identity. It's an interesting internal conflict within the discussion. As a non binary person myself I sometimes wonder where the aspects of how my own ideas of femininity are arrived at. Contrapoints has some great takes on this too.

@NotADood

3 жыл бұрын

Sex based stereotypes is just sexism.

@serpentines6356

Жыл бұрын

@@NotADood No, not always.

@serpentines6356

Жыл бұрын

Just be yourself. Most of this gender bender stuff is garbage begging for attention.

Battle of the aesthetic bookshelves. Great conversation though, enjoying these talks with prominent progressive thinkers. We need to get the British left as rhetorically proficient as possible

@sgu00dir

3 жыл бұрын

Great point. And on the bookshelves I'm glad it's not just me noticing that. One of the benefits of COVID is getting a window into scholars and politicians book shelves! The academics and real thinkers always have dishevelled the most dishevelled bookshelves

@nolslifegren

3 жыл бұрын

@@declanmurray Owens not a politician hes not elected by anyone ...

@natasha-em1qo

3 жыл бұрын

Rhetorically proficient 😂

@finolacat8355

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, aesthetic. Perfect adjective.

Just after you were born, no matter how bad the circumstances, a person, or people, gave you some measure of loving kindness, some amount of compassion. That was your introduction to life, the implicit knowledge that loving kindness and compassionate understanding are indispensable for human life to exist. The foundation of human life, therefore, is loving kindness and compassionate understanding. As we age we are taught otherwise by damaged people. 💔 Their misdirection is rarely intentional. They are simply sick due to their own early learning experiences. Once this is understood, we can seek help to dismantle the wrong thinking that we were taught and insert, through daily practice, right thinking, and thereby right actions. The teacher that I have learned from is Thich Nhat Hahn, and the practitioners that learned from him before me. weezi-💜🙏💖🙏🤠

thank you owen jones! i'm feeling the importance of joining together before the next usa election...... people seem way too complacent. & i feel the need to stand up for those many minorities who are so vulnerable in this american culture.

It’s definitely not a feeling in terms of trans people gender . Beautiful interview

@umwha

3 жыл бұрын

What is it then ? Is there a biological or physiological basis?

@pkupferschmidt

3 жыл бұрын

@Kaiissad right from the first of the video. Not a feeling, but a deep existential problem that can END YOU if not faced - either your life, your relationships, your physical safety, or all of these together.

@umwha

3 жыл бұрын

@@pkupferschmidt What does an existential problem mean in this context? On what level is this problem?

@chupacabraman01

3 жыл бұрын

@@umwha man stop trolling. You asked 'on what level is an existential problem?' it's at an existential level... That's all you need.

@umwha

3 жыл бұрын

@@chupacabraman01 I do not think it is. How hyperbolic to say that gender is an existential problem.

JK Rowling is not saying that all men are dangerous. Some might be, and since we don't know who is, it's important to keep men out of women's places.

@munchbob1

Ай бұрын

"Not all women are dangerous. Some might be, and since we don't know who is, it's important to keep women out of women's spaces!"

Productive discussion! Watching this in 2024

What’s the difference between UK and US? It seems to be organisation and intersectionality and willingness to flex our muscles. Ie a more established women’s movement. If women reach out to religious and non-religious, right, left and moderate etc they can defend our rights as politicians work out the majority don’t want us erased.

Thank you for this discussion. Judith is a vision of grace, intelligence and wisdom. Wouldn't it be great for JK to sit down with Judith for a respectful and calm debate, now that would be interesting

@thegaytay4327

Жыл бұрын

A respectful and calm debate with JK Trolling? I don't think that's possible

Fascinating and insightful interview. Thanks! X

Listening to Judith Butler is an all you can eat word salad buffet.

Kindness, collectivity and care is what we need.

A feminist who does not believe a man can be a woman is not anti trans! "Are they against migration too?" So you are insinuating that these feminists are like far right haters.?

Incredible interview. Butler literally got name dropped in my argument with a transphobe an hour before this popped up in my feed.

@serpentines6356

Жыл бұрын

Wow. Not impressed! That's what shallow people do. Name drop. Define "transphobe."

"Life will offer you a diminishing number of opportunities to show how smart you are. It will offer an infinite number of occasions that require kindness, mercy, grace, sensitivity, sympathy, generosity and love. Life will require that you widen your repertoire of emotions, that you throw yourself headlong into other people. That you take the curriculum of intimacy. If you haven't mastered it yet, I ask you to turn to this task intentionally now." - David Brooks

Thanks so much for this Owen and Judith: truly enlightening interview!

I love Judith Butler!! What an amazing interview! Thanks for this, Owen!

@thomasobrien8850

3 жыл бұрын

another nut-job

Wonderful interview, well done Owen for getting this! Though i think we could tell you were a bit nervous (no wonder, who would'nt), some more banter and introductions would have been great so we could have seem more of who Judith Butler really is, it felt very scripted unlike some of your other episodes. I would have LOVED to hear about some of the ways her mind has changed from earlier works- next time maby

Has anyone in these comments actually tried to read any Judith Butler? How did you get on?

@georgemioch8981

10 ай бұрын

Word salad…

That was brilliant, I could listen to Judith Butler talk for hours on end, so much long thought out wisdom there to learn from. I appreciate the way in which she delivers her words with a great sense of humility, and with an understanding of and comfortability with the fact that these topics are complex and that her own views and those of wider society will and should change over time. Unfortunately, many people are only willing/able to listen to straight forward answers and simple ideas. I wonder how can we translate discussions such as this into a form that is palatable to a wider audience?

Why isn't Butler critiquing domination in a culture which shapes gender behaviour? Why isn't she pointing out that domination shapes submissive and dominating behaviours which we describe as feminine and masculine, including clothing, which fetishises domination? Her focus on internalised gender identity, without the cause is not useful to feminism, it is useful to genderists and capitalism.

@ignacia3628

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly what I was thinking

@FoamKittyGamer

3 жыл бұрын

Because she's explaining the situation to people who are just finding this information out.

@joannapinkiewicz6756

3 жыл бұрын

@News Junkie I would think other issues are more pronounced and visible: sexualisation and commodification of women and male violence.

@vdrake6817

3 жыл бұрын

butler has wrote about these things before. perhaps you should actually read some of their books. the reality of power structures and imbalances in patriarchal societies is something butler has been critiquing their entire career.

@vdrake6817

3 жыл бұрын

@News Junkie power imbalances along the lines of race, gender, class, etc. are fact. anyone can google social inequalities of health, wealth, etc. and the information is widely available. echo chamber or not, these facts are there and widely replicated in all of contemporary social science. again i have little idea what you are trying to say here as you keep repeating ad homonym attacks to butler.

Storms DeLaverie instigated the Stonewall riots. Storm was a proud butch Lesbian.

@ginaritchie451

3 жыл бұрын

that is true. and marsha p johnson , a trans woman of color was right behind her. cisgender white gay men will tell you they began it all.

@derekspitz9225

3 жыл бұрын

@@ginaritchie451 Why are you so angry with white men? Daddy issues?

@sandytimewell

3 жыл бұрын

@@ginaritchie451 Marsha self-identified as a gay man and a drag qeen, not trans. Marsha also said in interviews that they (the drag queens) were not there at the start of the riot and turned up a couple of hours later. This history is all on record, stop rewriting history. Butch lesbians started the stonewall riots.

@robbiespence6504

3 жыл бұрын

Yes just one of the many history lies in this interview.

I would hope we can all agree that it's not transphobia to suggest that biological sex should be taken into account for specific domains of society, that all people should be treated with compassion and their personal identity respected. The temperature on this debate needs to cool, and people with different perspectives need to listen to each other to rationally discuss solutions to a complicated problem (for some areas of traditional societal organization). I really hope in time people can be more civil on this topic, and not suggest things like a biological dogma thats insensitive to gender dsyphoria, or on the flip side, suggest people are in some way contributing to suicide rates of vulnerable groups by asking questions/having an opinion.

12:20 what a salient observation. I've encountered this not only in formal literature, but also within interactions with with trans exclusionary feminists in my daily life. There is often a lot of assuming about my beliefs and not very much asking... This is also exhibited by transphobes outside of feminist circles, and I would even say is a frequent aspect of beliefs structured on bigotry.

@serpentines6356

Жыл бұрын

Have absolutely no idea how you define "transphobe." If you think it's okay to ruin children's innocence with this gender bender garbage, allow men in women's sports, bathrooms, dressing rooms, shelters, prisons, etc., then yeah, I am not going to really care much how you define that, or what you think. You are already showing me. So, you are right, I don't care what "trans people" think when they are pushing insane thinking, and behaviour on children, women, and expect us to just go along with it, or "understand" it. If you won't respect my boundaries, or children's boundaries then don't expect it back from those of us standing up to the trans cult.

@inflikktion

Жыл бұрын

@@serpentines6356 wOn'T sOmEbOdY tHiNk Of ThE cHiLdReN !?

@BloodyVulnona

Жыл бұрын

@@serpentines6356 your comment is literally the perfect example of that

@BloodyVulnona

Жыл бұрын

@UCvQYhz95hUD41eeiUts0H8Q Once again, perfect example

@serpentines6356

Жыл бұрын

@@BloodyVulnona So, according to you "transphobe" is someone unwilling to be a doormat for disrespect, and abuse brought on by extremist "affirmation" "trans" ideology, drag pedagogy, etc? Do *you* go on listening to someone who REFUSES to respect you, your hard work, your boundaries? I guess you will if you don't care about being disrespected, or abused. Are the "trans" people I agree with "transphobic"? Not, hardly.

Wow! What a brilliant and hugely important interview. Thank you so much Owen and Judith.

Only if I could have an intimate one hour chat with Butler lol

@Grappapappa

2 жыл бұрын

Why? Do you have troubles falling asleep?

@sophiepooks2174

24 күн бұрын

@@Grappapappa Seethe harder. Please show us all where on the dolly the transes hurt you.

@Grappapappa

24 күн бұрын

@@sophiepooks2174 Häh?

I liked the part where you asked Butler about her May, 11, 2018 letter to NYU.

Is being in favor of non-violence the same as being anti-war or anti-militarism? Smedley Butler (not an ancestor of Judith?) said "War is a Racket". Libertarians think "non-agression" or "non-coercion" is different from non-violence (which is a peculiar notion indeed).

Aoto gynephilia rightd now.MAPS rights are human rights.

@killhomophobes11

5 ай бұрын

omg where in this did they talk abt pedophilia? maps are absolutely disgusting and have no place in the lgbtqia+ movement. y'all transphobes are truly pathetic

Judith, have you been reading some of my old essays? Ah...great minds think alike?

hey owen, loved the interview! was an incredibly interesting discussion. i'm interested in including some of the points raised in an essay - would it be possible to get a transcript?

@lucypherr

3 жыл бұрын

don't know if this helps but in lieu of an actual transcript, youtube provides a transcript made from its automatically generated subtitles, under the three dot menu underneath the video

ty for spreading intelligence and light 🕯️

Why is my algorithm giving me foundation adverts in the middle of this? 🤨

@sorchacartoons7062

3 жыл бұрын

Hahahah same

She should do a lecture on Nelson Goodman and his idea of Social Construction.

Judith thinks citing Garce lavery and Susan striker booster her argument?

Owen PLEASE interview Debra Soh - that would be so interesting. She’s a leftie who has opposing views on gender to Judith Butler and you two would make for a great debate. That would make my day

@fe5018

3 жыл бұрын

Do you really think Jones would have the balls to rattle cages like that? Soh is way too controversial. Owen Jones seems alot more likely to condemn anyone who would "give her a platform".

@Stampida9

3 жыл бұрын

@@fe5018 You’re right, but it’s a shame as I think both sides of this debate are such echo chambers and I’d love for some real, frank and open-minded discussion

@fe5018

3 жыл бұрын

@@Stampida9 you find each as bad as the other? I can't say that's been my experience. Although, I have seen far too many people on both sides say that the opposing side "Doesn't have an answer for XYZ!" when in many instances they actually do.

@LuxPsy

3 жыл бұрын

Debra Soh would be so lightweight debating Judith Butler. Soh does a lot of interviews, but have you noticed that in those interviews she never debates an actual scholar or scientist? Soh is neither a leftie nor an actual scientist. She identifies as a liberal - which is not the same as a leftie - and most her talking points are anti-left. She's not a scientist; she's a columnist with a PhD in Psychology. Again, these two things are different; having a PhD in a STEM field doesn't automatically make one a scientist. She hasn't conducted any scientific research since 2016 - the year she got her PhD, she quit science. If you can call a PhD student a scientist, then yes she is a FORMER scientist during the time she was a PhD student, but not anymore. And yes, her actual degree is in psychology not in neuroscience (from the Department of Psychology at York University, Canada), even though she did some neuroimaging work (I guess "neuroscientist" just sounds more legit and science-y than "psychologist"). Her PhD research was on hypersexual disorder (aka sex addiction) in men. She has precisely 0 peered-reviewed scientific publications on the topics of transgender, gender, biological sex, or sex differences in the brain, but she's praised by the uninitiated mistakenly as an renowned expert on these topics just because she writes anti-woke co-ed articles, a non-peer-reviewed alarmist book, and does a lot of interviews claiming to speak for "The Science". Get a real scientist/scholar on the neurobiological basis of gender to debate Butler, not Soh. I think it's sad that lay people think of Soh as the first "gender neuroscientist" that comes to mind instead of any real expert such as the ones she cited in her book (which nobody remembers or bothers to check out their actual papers lol) just because she's notorious and provocative.

@Stampida9

3 жыл бұрын

@@LuxPsy Interesting perspective!

Wow. That moment when she chuckles and mentions Obama wondering if we'll need to send in the navy seals to remove Trump, not knowing that two weeks later we'll have the national guard literally defending the capitol from Trump's supporters...

@cheers6043

2 жыл бұрын

Off topic, but your channel is super fun btw

Yay I'm valid!! I love this women 💞

@evan2173

3 жыл бұрын

Your oppression is meaningless. Your "validity" is confirmed by reality, not some whack postmodernist neoliberal shill.

@fe5018

3 жыл бұрын

@@evan2173, they seem to prefer the postmodernist neoliberal shill though 🤷‍♂️

@sparagmos4748

3 жыл бұрын

I hope you are joking as you shouldn't need validation from an academic that you presumably have never met.

@leafleafleaf9272

3 жыл бұрын

Judith Butler perpetuates the current, outdated method of gd treatment.

@sophiepooks2174

24 күн бұрын

@@fe5018 Yep they won't be happy until the folkies are singing; 'Where have all the transes gone, long time passing, long time ago' When will they ever learn? ☮❤

Judith explains exactly how it feels.