explorminate.co/our-top-ten-4x-games-of-all-time-list/

No. 10: Master of Orion 2: Battle at Antares No. 9: Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes No. 8: Galactic Civilizations 2 No. 7: Sword of the Stars No. 6: Endless Legend No. 5: Sid Meier’s Alpha Centauri No. 4: Master of Magic No. 3: Sid Meier’s Civilization IV No. 2: Master of Orion 1 / Remnants of the Precursors No. 1: Distant Worlds: Universe

@Pioponk

Жыл бұрын

Thx.

What I love about this is its a top list and you're still willing to knock a games flaws. There is no such thing as a perfect game after all.

@explorminate

3 жыл бұрын

We're still waiting 😂 and thank you!

@Ta123Di

3 ай бұрын

It is TRUE, even my hundred hour favorite game is still has flawed that maybe we just accept it(Looking at you Gamebryo engine).

But uh.. have you not played Stellaris? All kidding aside, excellent video guys. I think it's been said, but creating these top 10 lists is a challenge because of the variety of games in the genre and the impact they have all had. The AoW series, Endless Space to an extent (admittedly I'm not the biggest fan), Emperor of the Fading Suns and the aforementioned Stellaris have all had big impacts. I'm interested to see how this list changes over the next couple of years!

@explorminate

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks omzh! Yeah it's not easy, and we're not trying to tell people what they should enjoy, it was just what we felt were "the best". I (BATTLEMODE) don't even play a couple of the games on this list but recognise that they're influential or just good games in general. I think Stellaris would have made a place on a top 20 list for sure.

Since I played #1 and #2 yesterday, I cannot fault the choices.

@BeBopScraBoo

3 жыл бұрын

ha ha #1 is the only one on the list i've never played.

ALL these games, right to the versions and mods, have a permanent place on my hard drive and do get returned to.

Dunno whether Star Ruler belongs on the list but damn, you could do some crazy stuff in that game!

@explorminate

3 жыл бұрын

I really like Star Ruler 2, I'm surprised it didn't do better considering how good a game it is.

Master of Orion 2 is #1 for me, neat list for sure these are all great titles

@zeusapollo6504

10 ай бұрын

The tactical space combat was its best part, both MoO1 and MoM needs mods to be played once you have seen MoO2s combat and galactic map and solar systems you cannot unseen it and go back playing MoO1 unmodded, you gonna risk some serious eye cancer and i am used to play Dominions 3, without trouble. Btw, did these guys know Steve Barcia did also Metroid Prime another syfy game, but not in the TBS genre, and he worked together with nintendo and the Mario and Zelda creator, easily the most successful game designer on planet earth. lol This guy is a genius like Brian Renyolds, of course they had to add almost all of his simtex games to the list.

instant sub for having good taste by mentioning civ4

Oh yes! Quality content. Since there are no Paradox/Creative Assembly games, the list is strongly legit. I strongly agree with your pick of Civ4 and GalCiv2, I still prefer those versions over others. I am personally skeptical with regard to Endless Legend. But hey, the list is incredibly strong nonetheless! I love you guys!

I still play SoTS with friends , such a shame that SoTS 2 was massive whiff. I sure hope for either remaster or 3rd atempt from Kerberos, this time succesful.

@Trifler500

3 жыл бұрын

I actually enjoy games of SoTS 2. The main thing I don't like about it is the massive prototyping cost. I like the idea of having prototyping, but the cost is way too high. It's definitely harder to play than SoTS 1. I would love to see a SoTS 3, but unfortunately Kerberos nearly went bankrupt from SoTS 2. The biggest shame is probably that the second game probably would have been a hit if they'd just left more things the same as the first game. Hopefully they can do another less ambitious attempt sometime.

@scottycheesecake

3 жыл бұрын

@@Trifler500 I have about 500 hours in SotS II. Most changes are very positive. The graphics were incredible for the time ( and still is for a 4x game ). It's let down by bad AI and horrible UI. If it didn't release the way it did, it would be better than the original in every way.

@Trifler500

3 жыл бұрын

@@scottycheesecake It sounds like your comment is more directed at Kidzin than myself, but yeah, they did some great work on it. It's really a shame it all fell apart for them.

I really really wanted to like Endless Legends but every time i try i get bored real quick.

@explorminate

3 жыл бұрын

We're split on it: it's at the top of Rob's list I think, but me (BATTLEMODE) and Drexy don't really get on with it at all. But we all recognise that it's had a huge influence on games that came after and it was a tight game despite it's rather divisive nature, unlike another rather notable omission from this list ;)

Would Endless Space 2 be bubbling under your 4X top 10 🤔. I'm really enjoying it ATM.

Where can we find Mezmoki's article "Traditional 4X: Definition by Rubric" quoted? Would really love to read it but google doesn't help.

@battlemode

3 жыл бұрын

Check the video's description above sir

Endless Space 2 is the best for me, but i like your list. Good job!!

So thrilled for the Sword of the Stars nod, how often does anyone even think of that title in 2021. This whole list was solid.

@memyshelfandeye318

3 жыл бұрын

Maybe best Space-4x I know, close tie with DW:U. Sadly they didn't mention that SotS is the only game with a real 3D galaxy map, and that Stellaris started out as a SotS clone.

@6StimuL84

2 жыл бұрын

I still play it alot.....

Good Top 10 : Missed, Honorable mention for Endless Space series and Sins of a Solar Empire Rebellion.

@firebladex8586

2 жыл бұрын

those are two of my favorites!

I like older 4X games. Particularly "Stars!" and "K240" stand out for me.

@Theonlynamenoonehas

10 ай бұрын

Loved K240

@_Meriwether

10 ай бұрын

@@Theonlynamenoonehas Amen brother!

Not having Imperium Galactica II and Stellaris on here is Heresy.

I'd have put Stars! somewhere on this list, bearing in mind it's still playable in Windows with WineVDM and came out before MOO2 and much more complex.

Emperor of the Fading Suns would be my #1

Ben, which games do you personally play off-camera and enjoy the most besides RotP and Shadow Empire? Not just praise/like/respect but actually play and enjoy in the last couple of years? Thanks! P.S. Shadow Empire may be on the future version of this list if Vic continues to evolve the game as he does now :-)

@battlemode

3 жыл бұрын

Great question! You've hit the two main ones already: ROTP and Shadow Empire: these are the ones I play to myself the most, I'd say. Particularly Shadow Empire. I've had to ban myself from playing it whilst I'm in term-time, else I don't do any work. ROTP because I'm kinda addicted to it and I like to help Ray out with testing whenever there's a new version wherever I can. There's one game I'm under NDA for and cannot discuss that is taking most of my spare time right now, but other than that, just for my own fun I regularly play Distant Worlds: Universe, Caster of Magic, Conquest of Elysium 4 and Dominions 5. More occasionally I'm playing GalCiv3, Civ4, Warhammer 40k: Gladius - Relics of War. Trying to find some time to play: Imperiums: Greek Wars, Eador: Genesis, Star Ruler 2, Deity Empires, Wizards & Warlords. I think all of the above are excellent games in various ways. I particularly think Imperiums: Greek Wars is one to watch out for in the future. I also play a lot of Total War: Warhammer 2, although I don't count Total War as 4X I think it's probably one of my very favourite games.

@ivanred123

3 жыл бұрын

@@battlemode Ben, appreciate such a detailed answer! Will you add "Staff Picks: Ben" to the eXplorminate's Steam Curator lists, please? 😊 P.S. Thank you very much for eXplorminate, all the time and soul you invest in it with the team. Enjoying your vids, articles, interviews a lot. Please don't stop or quit ❤️

@battlemode

3 жыл бұрын

@@ivanred123 Hey man, that's really kind of you to say so, thanks! I'm glad you enjoy the content, and we're trying to improve it all the time so I hope you continue to enjoy it.

Does the GOG version of Master of Magic fix the bugs, or do I still need to install the fan patch?

@explorminate

3 жыл бұрын

I'm sorry I don't know. The Steam version gives you the option of the fan patches or the original, bugged game I think.

@Anguille2

3 жыл бұрын

@@explorminate the gog options are the same. It's the Slitherine edition.

@Rayndrops

3 жыл бұрын

@@explorminate The GOG version is probably the same then. Both are published by Slitherine.

Good list. Should've made a top 15 :D. Armada 2526 Gold Edition is a good game. Star Ruler 2 is also very unique and I really enjoyed the explore&expand bits. Combat is also good as you can have huge battles going on. Star Drive 1&2 are decent as well :)

@Anguille2

3 жыл бұрын

Agree....i could even make a top 20.

@explorminate

3 жыл бұрын

Star Ruler 2 absolutely deserves a place in the top 20!

Master of Magic is the best: Great variety in units&spells, many combinations, a lot of randomness, tactical battles, game changer spells, ... more as MoO!

@explorminate

3 жыл бұрын

I (BATTLEMODE) don't think MoM is quite as tight a game as MoO but as you've said, it's appeal lies in it's wonderful variety. I think a lot of people might think it's a strange choice to be on the list but people who know, well, we know :)

@vicwaberub5297

3 жыл бұрын

@@explorminate I think it's very dense but not in the first 20 turns. MoO lacks the gamechanger spells, the rare global spells (Timestop! Armageddon! ...). MoO has other good ideas: Antares (an overpowered opponent for an interesting endgame) and vote (a shortcut to avoid a boring endgame).

@qq_02

3 жыл бұрын

To me, the presence of MoM on this list is largely because of its legacy, what it inspired: Age of Wonders. The lack of Age of Wonders on this list is largely because MoM is already there. They are the best things to ever happen to fantasy RPG (along with the early HoMMs).

@RayFowler

3 жыл бұрын

@@qq_02 And that is always a challenge in lists like this. When a great game clearly inspires a greater game, which do you put on a limited list? It's always a tough call. Most people who don't understand that games have a lineage, of sort, will just rage that their favorite game isn't here

The first Stardrive game should at least have an honorable mention. It pays some homage to MOO2, while incorporating a small scale freighter economy and imo THE BEST and most meaningful ship customization of any 4x. I might swap out Imperium Galactica 2 for some of those mentioned. Probably the first, if not only game to incorporate Sim City like colony building on which real-time ground combat took place. Wish it had gotten a 3rd game for a chance to improve on the whole design.

Hmm I think I know why I like games like Distant Worlds: its the simulation aspect. Where in other games you press a button to enact something like -50% fuel for 5 turns or whatever, in distant worlds you can literally intercept the fuel tankers and watch how the fuel shortage affects the other empire. I kinda dislike when game gives you all the information about costs and effects of your decisions before you make them (EU4 events are prime example of this etc.) Now I like Stellaris too which is structured nearly the same way but I stopped playing vanilla long ago, now its always with Alpha mod that ads like 20 new resources tons of new buildings with interesting emergent interplay between the type of planets, rare resources, blockers etc. - which is not obvious from just looking at the tooltips.

@explorminate

3 жыл бұрын

That's exactly what we love about DW:U too. What other game do you know where you might need to design a specific refueling station in order just to reach an invasion target, only to find you don't have the right materials for the station so need to go steal a mining station from some nearby pirates in order to get what you need? It's a wonderful game and no mistake!

@n3rdm4n

3 жыл бұрын

I'm on the same ballpark at least. When I play games I see the invisible walls that they have to have to function. Like a game like GTA 5 would not have all the building interiors done, so you access just what you need to access. With DWU, I can almost see no walls other than the monitor separating me from that universe. Very MURRSIVE! :)

@XxKidnoffxX

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I just discovered Distant World by reading a comment on Steam about the last Stellaris update lol. Distant World 2 release in 5 days so now I just can't wait for it and I hope it will be better than DW: Universe ;) For now, Stellaris is my favorite 4X. But the depth and simulation of DW look insane!

Whoever made the thumbnail really likes Grim Dawn, the bottom left and bottom right pictures are cosmetic items from the loyalist item pack 2.

As someone who got into the 4x genre with Civilization V, my list would look a lot different; in fact the only two games from this list that I have played are Endless Legend and Distant Worlds Universe and even then I bounced off of DWU hard. To me there seems to be a bias here for older games, games that I wouldn't really consider playing without a remaster. For me, the emergent storytelling aspect of 4x games is probably one of the most important aspects, which is why I would replace DWU with Stellaris on my list.

@explorminate

2 жыл бұрын

You should try all of the games on the list, they're all excellent and there's a reason we left Stellaris off... I agree that it's a decent storytelling game, but it kinda sucks as a 4X

Excellent list which includes many of my favorites, but i would´ve gone a different route: 1. Alpha Centauri 2. Civilization 4 (specially because of its sheer modability) 3. Victoria 2 4. Aurora4x (despite its absurd difficulty) 5. Distant Worlds Universe 6. Sword of the Stars 7. Galactic Civs 2 8. Stellaris 9. Caesar 3 10. Endless Space Even though i find top 10´s to be a bit arbitrary, they are fun to make.

@battlemode

3 жыл бұрын

Just to be anal, I'd argue that neither Vicky 2 nor Caeser 3 are 4X games, but they're both good games nonetheless!

@MyriadColorsCM

3 жыл бұрын

@@battlemode Yeah, i also repeated Sword of the Stars two times on the list by mistake. lmao Should´ve been Endless Space

@ValosarX

3 жыл бұрын

@@MyriadColorsCM Sword of the Stars deserves two slots :)

Sins of a Solar Empire! or are the graphics and UI too good to make this list?

@Gunnar_Konig

3 жыл бұрын

Maybe it doesn't count as a 4X game? It's more of a big RTS in space... Very good game though, shame the optimization is terrible and the developer is dead.

@explorminate

3 жыл бұрын

I think it's close enough to a 4X game but many disagree. Just speaking personally but I'd honestly forgotten Sins, I think it's a candidate for being in the top 10 for sure.

So many good old games but no mention for "Stars!". Sad :(

@battlemode

3 жыл бұрын

I'm going to try Stars! soon, it keeps getting recommended to me by people who's opinion I value, so I know it's good.

@memyshelfandeye318

3 жыл бұрын

@@battlemode AI is poor, I wonder if play-by-Email is still a thing?

@alexeiosipov6304

3 жыл бұрын

@@battlemode It's a great game that was created in 1995 but worked well on all Windows versions up to Windows XP. The most important thing that it had good multiplayer support (file based). So it's quite playable on WIndows XP virtual machine. The interesting feature of the game uses windows and vector-based graphics so it looks well even on big modern monitors.

@battlemode

3 жыл бұрын

@@alexeiosipov6304 Great stuff! I'll take a look, thank you!

@battlemode

3 жыл бұрын

@@memyshelfandeye318 People still play Stars! multiplayer I believe

loved sword of the stars. unmodded and modded. the only thing i was wishing for there was more deepths into economy

definitely looking forward to DW2 and MoM remake

@firebladex8586

2 жыл бұрын

Strange that there hasn't been a MoM remake yet.

@strictlynineties

2 жыл бұрын

@@firebladex8586 There is one being made last I knew

@OrangeNash

Жыл бұрын

There is now. Both have had somewhat mixed reviews. Well, DW2 is mostly negative.

@rockomcdagger6364

Жыл бұрын

​@@OrangeNash The recent DLC and update are changing people's opinions in a positive direction.

Can you please tell us what are some good coop 4x games? Loved the video!

@explorminate

Жыл бұрын

Gladius is among the best. Maybe the only?

@alimoorad5998

Жыл бұрын

@@explorminate Thank you! Where would you put Stelaris and Gladius as a single player game on your list? I would love to see a list where you rank all of the famous and not so famous 4X games! Like a 4X tier list perhaps?

@explorminate

Жыл бұрын

@@alimoorad5998 we have two of those very same things! Just search the channel!

How do you guys already know what is on the list?

@explorminate

3 жыл бұрын

This video is a bit late: it was due to come out alongside our podcast and a written article but we delayed it because it wasn't quite ready, but the podcast has been up a couple of days.

i really wish for a new sots and alpha centauri

As someone who has almost 10k+ hours into a lot of different 4xs (I know baby hours) I could not really get into Distant Worlds. Like I love complex games, but I do feel sometimes games are just complex for the sake of making it more complex and that is always not a good thing. Like the idea that there are so many systems that can overwhelm a player that you would want AI to help you with just does not seem appealing. Some people love that, but it's just not for me. I personally prefer Fantasy over Sci Fi. Endless Legends and Fall from Heaven are two of my favorite 4x games but when it comes to the fantasy genre you really don't have many options. So many 4x developers go for Sci Fi cause they feel that is what sells. But what ends up happening when you try to copy another success, often the game is not a big hit. It does not take long to see that if you search steam 4x category. Though I would be more than happy if someone would make a fantasy 4x game that captured the great features that FFH had. Like for it time FFH did so many things right. Sure it uses the civ 4 economy system and warfare system does hold it back, but there are so many things in it that sadly so many 4X developers do not capture in their games. don't get me wrong Endless Legend is good, but I really like the dark fantasy setting with magic, demons, world changing events or factions. Thankfully from what I heard Kael is going to be working on a fantasy game after GalCiv 4, so there is hope. The only thing that really is a little annoying in 4x games and could greatly use a creative look at, is cities or planet management. It simply kind of annoying when in some games when it comes to city/system deployment you pretty much build all the same buildings in all the cities. For me that is really boring. I see this in Endless Series, Civ Series, etc. Like a system where you are both limited based on how many buildings you can build per city/system would be great and even something small like needing pop to work it. Even the idea of cities changing the world map as they use natural resources could be cool. Is that even in any 4x games? Point is other than that there is even more stuff I feel the 4x developers should look into that change some existing mechanics. Like I feel Amplitude Studios territory system is a huge step forward for 4X games. More games in my opinion should adopt that system and like I said reinvent the wheel so to speak. I would try my hand in the 4x genre and really try to make something great...but I don't have coding skill nor the money. I simply like to write down design ideas and just think. lol

@battlemode

3 жыл бұрын

I know the Endless games kind of do this, but I'd really like to see a return to the kind of sci-fi/fantasy blending genre that you got in games from the 80s, like Might & Magic, Wizardry and Ultima :) I know not everybody likes seeing lightsabres and laser guns in their fantasy games but when it's done well, I really like it. As for the development thing: I completely hear you. I can code but have no time for games development sadly. One day!

@UnderKingDuck

3 жыл бұрын

@@battlemode I mean I do give amplitude studios a lot of credit cause like I said in the OP I think a lot of the changes they make are the right direction for the 4x genre. Like I have a doc I have been working on that has what I would do if given the chance to make a 4x game from the ground up. Now if you take a look at all of the 4x, again I have not tried them all but most I have, I feel in terms let say warfare I really like Endless Legends and Humankinds approach. Though there is one or two things I would change about it, but over all I think it a much better system than the one unit per tile system that civ 5-6 has. I'm for a game with a mix of fantasy and sci-fi. I mean I still would want a pure fantasy game though, but the idea is interesting and I could see it going in a interesting direction.

Galciv 3 would be great if the devs weren't schizophrenic with the game mechanics and if they actually play-tested their DLCs. I also had high hopes for Endless Space 2 but that game is nowhere near what I would consider to be a release able state.

@rockomcdagger6364

Жыл бұрын

I really loved Galciv 3 during the first two years (My steam playtime for it is around 200+ hours) but the constant changing of the mechanics eventually drove me away. Plus the last expansion was awful.

@MU-oi1su

Жыл бұрын

@@rockomcdagger6364 Right?! I don't know what's wrong with the dev team.

4 is the top Civ game? Based and red pilled.

@explorminate

3 жыл бұрын

Glad you agree!

@Mintcar923

Жыл бұрын

Civ 2 was my GOAT back in the day.. Seems both 4 & 5 surpassed it.. Civ 6 is fine but doesn’t come across as quite as good as the aforementioned imo

Does someone knows any game which is like Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes?

@explorminate

2 жыл бұрын

There aren't really any. The upcoming Master of Magic reboot might be close!

I only recently came across 4x games...have played rts games since command and conquer but didn't really think I'd like turn based games. I wish there was more Synergy between the 2 styles. Rise of Nations kinda did it with its conquer mode. But that game is bordering on ancient at this point.

@mrfabulous4640

2 жыл бұрын

Lord Of The Rings 2 (battle for middle earth) has a “war of the ring” mode that combines both. But basically that is just like playing a total war game (Rome 2 with the DEI mod is the best).

I'd say it's a good enough list of classics, but I think you're missing quite a number of really good 4Xs that have really defined the genre in more significant ways. You have at least achieved the goal of making this video a debate triggering list for fans of the genre

@explorminate

2 жыл бұрын

That was the idea ;) Which would you have put up there?

@decrepitworld3634

2 жыл бұрын

@@explorminate Stellaris and something from the Warhammer series

@explorminate

2 жыл бұрын

@@decrepitworld3634 Ben here: not overly keen on Stellaris myself but I'm warming to it slowly now I've realised it's more of a story generator than a proper 4X. I rate Warhammer 40k Gladius: Relics of War as a superb game, but it's quite debatable as to whether it's a 4X or not and arguments about that are raging to this day.

@decrepitworld3634

2 жыл бұрын

@@explorminate I'm no 4x puritan, but as long as the 4Xs activities are met in the game - in some form or manner, I guess you could call it 4X.. I think Gladius do check all the boxes. Currently playing X4: Foundations (Tides of Avarice) - now that's a debatable title.

I love Endless Space 2, even though I didn't enjoy Endless Space 1.

what i wouldn't do for Sword of the stars 3 or another Alpha Centauri

Why isn't space empires iv On your list. That game was one of the top 4X games from 1999 till 2005.

@explorminate

3 жыл бұрын

It's good but the terrible AI stops it being good enough for a top spot.

@memyshelfandeye318

3 жыл бұрын

@@explorminate Lol ... GalCiv2 is worse.

@CNC295

3 жыл бұрын

@@explorminate cannot dispute that. Was a weak ai.

@battlemode

Жыл бұрын

​@@CNC295 I've replayed this in recent months and completely changed my mind about the game. The AI is no way as bad as I remember it being, and it's just a really good game overall. It's definitely in my top 10 Space 4X games now

@Lordsuhn

Жыл бұрын

This list is not very well researched without SEIV - which is #1 on my list.

Since I have a framed poster of the game which I got from the devs at the con, I have to stan Age of Wonders Planetfall. I always feel 4x gamers live in the past, giving higher credit to old games that innovated the genre over modern games that polished these systems. For example, I don't like Alpha Centauri. It has a cool narrative, but gameplay wise, I think it massively fell behind over time. And with a game like Master of Magic, I think the years and years of extra polish from the fan patch and the Caster of Magic mod elevated it. If it was just the base game, it wouldn't be on this list. Also, I like the gameplay changes Civ 5 made to the game, specifically the removal of doomstacks and making it so that you cannot instantly capture cities without a unit in them. And I think by today, Civ 6 has a ton of features that show the growth of the series and while Civ 4 was a bigger improvement over Civ 3 than 6 was to 5, I do not think the game measures up head to head.

@explorminate

3 жыл бұрын

If we'd have done a top 20 I'd definitely have considered Civ5 to be in there. I didn't like it as much as Civ4, the AI was terrible by comparison and I don't think it really dealt with the 1UPT system, which was a fix for something I personally never considered to be a big problem anyway. But it is still a really good game, although I think there'd be people who'd complain that it should be Civ6 up there instead of 5!

@motokuchoma

3 жыл бұрын

@@explorminate Btw, I have a suggestion, can you make a video about each X in 4X and showcase it with games that are especially good in that regard?

@explorminate

3 жыл бұрын

@@motokuchoma that's a great idea. We've done podcasts on that, but not videos. Consider it in the works!

I never had the chance to play a 4X game as a kid but I loved the idea of creating and managing my own alien empire. That said, I’ll gladly overlook a lack of such customisation to play a better game. I just wish I could stick to a 4X game long enough to learn and enjoy it.

@adammcallister8120

Жыл бұрын

Try polytopia, its a simple and fun intro to the genre.

The fact that Stellaris did not make this list is fine, but that it did not make this list while games like Endless Space, Endless Legend & Fallen Enchantress did is quite weird. Oh well, to each their own.

@explorminate

3 жыл бұрын

Endless Space isn't on there, but we think Legend pushed the genre forward, even if it's a bit divisive, and Legendary Heroes was just shy of becoming an all time best 4X game. It's player vs. environment element can't be beat

I'm surprised no Paradox games made it into the list. But also happy to see fall from heaven mentioned, it truly is a masterpiece. I'm still playing civ4 mods to this day. For me though, the best would be Alpha Centauri. It felt like reading a book. And a good one at that

@noidea3326

Жыл бұрын

Which ones are considerated ''4x'' though?

Oh goodness. Fallen Enchantress is on my top 10 WORST 4x games of all time. If it had an actual opponent to overcome, it would be fantastic. No multiplayer and an AI that literally does nothing but wait for you to attack, make this game a complete flop in my book. I've run tests on this game where I start the game, click end turn 80 times, while doing nothing and am still alive. Horrible title that only deserves to ever be mentioned as an embarrassment for Stardock.

@OrangeNash

Жыл бұрын

Yes, surprised it's on the list. I have the original and it's very lacklustre, uninspiring. A game that makes you think of the games that do what it does better. Though Legendary Heros expansion came later and I've never tried that - it is supposed to be better. I'm even more surprised by Distant Worlds as that is one of my all time WORST games! Appalling interface, every mechanism taken from another game (Gal Civ/MOO/Space Empires etc) uninspiring tech & research (missiles+1/shields+1 blah blah). Bog standard fluffy species, hive species, robot species, zero originality. Then with so much micromanagement, you have to automate it. It didnt' feel like a 4X or even any kind of strategy game to me, but could only work as a kind of ant farm that you watched.

For a top 10 he isn't making much of a case for MOO2

Yeah I get it, you have ... you like MOO soo much. Nevertheless, the UI is crappy, the slider system is primitive and as time consuming ("one click more, no, one click back, check all worlds next turn if the optimal thresholds are still met") as the "click 8 buildings to build in every colony" successor. And I really don't know what that AI praise is all about - considering how primitive the game is, how easy it is for the computer to constantly optimise every slider on every world, how **** much it cheats ... actually it seems pretty limited and poor, maybe slightly better then the Stars! AI. Sad thing, though, that you totally forgot to mention that Stellaris started out as a SotS-1 clone, including all 3 drive types, and that SotS-1 is the only space-4x where space is actually fully 3D, including the galaxy map (what obviously overstrained some players...).

@Anguille2

3 жыл бұрын

I think the slider system is elegant, not primitive. It's brilliant actually.

@explorminate

3 жыл бұрын

I did describe the UI as "RSI-inducing" and I'm fully in agreement about the original's flaws now. That's why I've recommended people play Remnants of the Precursors, which has one of the most modern UI I've seen in a 4X game yet.

People who like Alpha Centauri should check out Pandora.

@battlemode

3 жыл бұрын

I've got this one to play. I heard Ail's AI is very good in Pandora.

@Trifler500

3 жыл бұрын

@@battlemode I've often thought I was way ahead and then suddenly found myself struggling to survive. There is a strong rock/paper/scissors type system in place (although it's biological (as in organic, not as in pathogens) vs. mechanical, light vs. heavy, and ground vs. air) and the AI is good at looking at what you're using and building the appropriate units. It's important to have a mix of defender types in each city. IMO the rock/paper/scissors is too strong, as fighting the wrong type means even your most expensive units with lots of levels of experience just die. In every game, your first threat is typically the native Pandoran wildlife. They have a hive mind, so all of the aliens on the planet are linked. If you just sort of piss them off, then you'll just be fighting the hives near you, but if you really piss them off, all of the hives on the planet will send units at your cities, and can easily grind your forces down with attrition. Their main weakness is that they are all biological, so when fighting them, you can focus on anti-biological weapons (human infantry also count as biological). If you play with the expansion, then there are also aliens who come from outer space and have superior technology. They are unrelated to Pandoran wildlife. They'll drop cities down from orbit and instantly take control of a large area of land. I believe they're supposed to focus most of their attention on the strongest player. It's hard to tell how much they analyze and how much is just random. The human factions each have different bonuses and penalties. In my experience, it's extremely difficult to maintain friendly relations. It seems to always drift back to neutral unless you keep doing nice things for them on a regular basis. They'll break pacts all the time, so don't trust them. That being said, the Eco faction does seem to actually be friendlier than the others.

@battlemode

3 жыл бұрын

@@Trifler500 I think it's very wargame like, but is less of a dedicated wargame than it's successor Warhammer 40K Gladius: Relics of War, which is why I tend to play the latter instead of Pandora.

@memyshelfandeye318

3 жыл бұрын

@@battlemode Pandora AI is completely s**t. It constantly backstabs everyone, as soon as a human or computer player loses some units (to player attack or wildlife doesn't matter, and some monsters are nasty) and appears weak. No matter if they had treaties and good relations, as soon as the troop strength count drops, the vultures come in. If in the next turns every city finishes some units, all of a sudden they all want to be friends again - and they doing that to each other as well, as the AIs have absolutely no memory about past "conduct" it seems. This has even led to players claiming that the AI acts totally randomly ... Overall this is a shame IMHO, as it could have been a somewhat worthy successor to SMAC, with higher screen resolution, bigger maps etc., but still lacking the marvellous story part. But then - how often can one play the same story again and again ? . 22-years spoiler ahead !! . . . (especially as the story says Deirdre wins)

@Blefiz

3 жыл бұрын

Pandora is a horrible game.

I'd swap any from 10- 5 with Endless Space 2

@battlemode

3 жыл бұрын

I can't get into it, but I do love it's presentation. Amplitude make great looking games.

Thanks for this video. I loved 4x games until I discovered chess. Chess is so complex ( more positions than atoms in the universe) that the complexity I get in 4x games makes me feel (ooh aah, can't wait to be able to get the main concepts and then play around with the minute details) pales in comparison to chess ( oh my god, I can't calculate all the variations, I'm not sure this is the best plan, did I just blunder?). And the best part about chess is I get to partake in it with my son and his son/ daughter in future. These 4x games.... Won't be around. So, I'm going to cherish these games like I cherish once in a lifetime view of a sunrise/ sunset holding hands with my girl... As opposed to being completely obsessed. "Chess is a sea in which a gnat may drink, and an elephant may bathe.... Or drown" Also, did I mention I have over 100 chess books in my library. These 4x games are lucky to have 3 books each. Tactics and strategy! Ha! They matter so much I know tactics like how a chef knows of all the different types of knives and what they are each good at and how to handle them, and I know strategies that top players have employed since 1840 until 1930) Don't even start with 'tactjcs and strategy' in chess. There are dozens of books titled 'tactics and strategy' and there are 1000s of chess tactics books and 100s of strategy books

@reen6904

10 ай бұрын

this kind of strategy video games will verry likely substitute chess in the near future

To whoever narrated the Alpha Centauri one, I've got two notes: Succumbed pronounced "suck-cummed" not "succoomed" Babel is pronounced "babble" not babe-l

@explorminate

3 жыл бұрын

He's British. They pronounce things differently.

Where's Stellaris? It should have easily made this list.

@explorminate

3 жыл бұрын

We gave it an honourable mention because of its popularity and ambition, but its game mechanics are all over the place, it's got bad AI and Paradox keep adding more features instead of fixing the core issues.

Dominions 5 is not on the list, so i call this list invalid. There is no way Dominions 5 is not one of the best TBS in the genre. Absolutely no way, it beats all the fantasy titles, but MoM, quite easily. The scope of the content is comparable of the size of our galaxy and dwarfs other similar TBS titles in the same genre, just count the nations, spells and items. Battles are huge, like 1000s of units as sprites in combat. It also has perfect server sided simultaneus PBEM and very heavy scripted autocombat, i have seen nothing like it, and this is basicly done by only 2 guys in Sweden.

@explorminate

10 ай бұрын

This is a list of 4X games. Not TBS games. And Dominions 5 is not a 4X game.

I always found it kind of sad that Master of Orion is basically the heart and soul of the 4X genre. It's not that it's a bad game, far from it, but... well... something about its core mechanics just doesn't work for me. I am always attracted to 4X games that try to abandon the primal formula of Space 4X games (Star Ruler 2, Stellaris, GalCiv II, Distant Worlds) and try and come up with something different. It's tough loving a genre that is built around a game that you can't stand playing >>

@explorminate

3 жыл бұрын

You're not the only person who feels that way. I get the same feeling when I see developers continually rehashing Master of Orion 2, which I consider to be a worse game by a long way. Fortunately we're starting to see some interesting deviations from these old formula and I'm expecting good things this year!

Wow you played them all? Imagine you didnt you would be 2 years old since these games are fast forwarding time 🤣

@explorminate

2 жыл бұрын

I'm almost 40

@m3ntal_c0re

2 жыл бұрын

@@explorminate me too ... currently playing Gladius. They have the Adeptus Mechanicus now.

@explorminate

2 жыл бұрын

@@m3ntal_c0re you enjoying it?

@m3ntal_c0re

2 жыл бұрын

@@explorminate kinda but im to stupid to understand the deeper game mechanics with these games 😐

Fallen Enchantress over Age of Wonders III is a travesty.

@battlemode

3 жыл бұрын

Age of Wonders III is a good game, but it's not a good 4X game, and Fallen Enchantress has it beat on the one criteria we're judging them on. AoW3 also has an excellent tactical combat layer that is sadly too time consuming to make the game flow overall and so it misses out for that too. Fallen Enchantress was a perfect mix of "complexity vs speed of play"

@RayFowler

3 жыл бұрын

@@battlemode Distant Worlds over MOO1 is a travesty as well. Explain that one, Battlemode

@battlemode

3 жыл бұрын

@@RayFowler It's a better game? ;)

@Rotarrin

3 жыл бұрын

Have to disagree with you there. AoW3 is a fun game, but FE:LH is still better; it's a far more complete experience.

@ailst

3 жыл бұрын

I've had 50 minute long siege-battles in AoW III... I much prefer the faster battles in FE:LH.

None of these games are the best 4X. Best 4X is ''Eador Genesis New Horizons'' than ''Age of Wonders Shadow Magic'' comes.

@explorminate

3 жыл бұрын

That's just like, your opinion, man...

Meh, a top 10 list without space empires cannot be considered a serious list IMO.

@explorminate

3 жыл бұрын

To each their own :-)

@battlemode

3 жыл бұрын

Space Empires 4 has terrible AI. It doesn't matter how complex the game is (and I'll give it that, it is complex) if the AI can't play the game properly there's just no point.

@battlemode

Жыл бұрын

Changed my mind about Space Empires 4. It's a really good game and the AI ain't anywhere near as bad as I remember it being. So I stand corrected :D

hm, so no stellaris here?

@explorminate

2 жыл бұрын

Nope

What about Stellaris???!!

@explorminate

Жыл бұрын

We're slowly warming up to Stellaris, but we're not quite on the Stellaris bandwagon yet. It probably deserves a place here, but we'll revisit this in a year or so and see where it falls.

Shadow Empire beats them all.

@explorminate

Жыл бұрын

Lots has already changed since we made this list!

Master of Orion 2 the best 4x ever. No need to watch the rest of your video.

@explorminate

Жыл бұрын

We respectfully disagree.

>no Aurora, Stars, Space Empires, MoO3 >MoO2 LOWER than god damned Gal Civ2, SOTS, Endless Legend and Fallen Enchantress >Master of Magic higher than SMAC What a stupid list.

@explorminate

Жыл бұрын

So make your own! We'd like to see it!

@zenmastakilla

7 ай бұрын

Since when is MoO3 a good game?

@Canaris3

7 ай бұрын

Always was.@@zenmastakilla

Pretty much what I expected from eXplorimate. A shitty list with no consistency whatsoever. Mediocre games like Fallen Enchantress don't belong on a top 20 list, never mind above MOO2 - which remains the standard for space 4x games. Same for Gal Civ. No wonder though since eXplorimate tends to suck off Brad Wardell whenever they get a chance. And while Distant Worlds is a great game, the absolutely terrible UI and complex systems should exclude it from the top of any list. It's entirely inaccessible for anyone but the most dedicated. I put hundreds of hours into it but had to spend about 8-10 hours watching videos before even being able to dip my toe in the water. There's no way to reasonably rank it above accessible games like Civ 4, SMAC or Age of Wonders 3 (oh, where did that one go?) unless you're not considering approachability at all. MOO1 is in just about every way inferior to MOO2. UI, AI, features, production, etc. It's absurd #1 above #2. Never mind a number of more worthy games that should have been on here. SEIV, Stellaris, Dominions, etc. Or you could push the list with EU IV or Rise of Nations, both which can meet the 4X standard. But then again, it's to be expected from eXplorimate.

@explorminate

3 жыл бұрын

Okay. Thanks for your input. Have a great day!

@RayFowler

3 жыл бұрын

I hope you don't mind if I critique your comments a bit.. > Mediocre games like Fallen Enchantress don't belong on a top 20 list I think FE was clearly labeled as mediocre and it wasn't until several expansions that it became great. Maybe you just played the base game or think only the base game should be considered? > MOO2 - which remains the standard for space 4x games I don't think this is true at all. There was a time, yes, but the MOO2 formula has not aged well at all -- at least in the minds of a lot of people. That is not to take away from its incredible influence on space 4X game design > And while Distant Worlds is a great game, the absolutely terrible UI and complex systems should exclude it from the top of any list I agree. I'm not a fan of DW, but then again this is not my list! Like you, I had issues with its accessibility. > MOO1 is in just about every way inferior to MOO2. UI, AI, features, production, etc. It's absurd #1 above #2. Obviously I disagree with this. It's a subjective opinion, but I think MOO1 is superior to MOO2 in almost every game design way. The UI & production are just a reflection of an earlier era and not the design. > SEIV, Stellaris, Dominions, If I'm not mistaken, Stellaris and Dominions were honorable mentions in the podcast but that didn't make this video. Anyway, Stellaris is sort of a hot DLC mess and the playerbase is distinctly divided on which version is better. Your post was totally cool and informative except the for the personal attacks on the people who obviously spent a ton of time trying to make this video. It sort of undermines everything else you say. That's just my opinion, so feel free to ignore it.

@waltblackadar4690

3 жыл бұрын

@@RayFowler No worries Ray. eXplorimate has a long history of Wardell Worship which is both predictable and tiresome. It really begs the question whether there's a personal or financial relationship there because it's so pervasive. As for FE, I played it for about 50 hours or so. There's a reason it has a 77% Steam rating and hasn't moved the needle for a long time. It's very limited, especially given the limitations on city placement. It also didn't have several expansions. It had a couple of small DLC packs that introduced leaders or a faction. Of course, that is unless you consider itself an expansion after numerous poor attempts at creating a MoM clone. It doesn't belong anywhere near a top 10 list - especially if someone goes back in time to stuff like Imperialism II or Colonization.

@Anguille2

3 жыл бұрын

As much as i do like MOO2, i like MOO's design better. It's the go/chess of the space 4x imho. Simple, elegant and efficient. But i do understant why you prefer MOO2. Everyone's list will be different. It's hard to have objective criterias. The 10 ten from eXplorminate is well done and solid.

@battlemode

3 жыл бұрын

@@waltblackadar4690 I'd argue that there are no other fantasy 4X games after Master of Magic that actually did anything better than MoM, except Fallen Enchantress. It's excellent PvE game is far superior to any of its peers and it has excellent tactical combat and unit design. None of the other MoM-inspired games came as close to Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes in the 4X category either, in that it's actually a good 4X game on top of all of that. As for Wardell-worship, it's as easy to accuse you of Wardell-hatred and we're still none the wiser as to whether either claim is true. I don't know Brad at all, but I do know that Stardock make solid games with generally solid AI. Since I got into my degree because I wanted to make game AI I've obviously looked at Brad's work because he's undeniably an expert in that field. Whatever you think of GalCiv2 and 3, they have superb AI. Space Empires 4 is alright but it's not a top 10 game. It's AI is awful, and it can barely play it's own game. That alone excludes it from any top 10 list. It wouldn't even make my top 20, despite me thinking it has some cool game mechanics. It's not an elegant game design either. It's unwieldy and clunky. They have their place but they're not better than any of the games we picked. Stellaris is exactly the same: the game just isn't good enough to knock any of these games off the top 10. Nice try Paradox, but no cigar. As for Dominions, I agree it's top 10 material, but if we add 4X-ish games like that, then we suddenly have to add games like Total War: Warhammer 2, another undeniably amazing game, and then we've no longer got a top ten 4X list.

Stellaris

@explorminate

3 жыл бұрын

It got an honourable mention in our podcast and article but we didn't get around to doing that bit for the video.

Boomer list how bout modern games some of these aren’t on steam wake up it’s 2023

@explorminate

Жыл бұрын

First, not a single one of us are "Boomers". But more importantly, what would you add that we don't have here?

Stellaris belongs at at least number 3. civ doesnt belong on the list. anything turn based doesn't either.

@explorminate

2 жыл бұрын

lol no

@viewtifuljoe4412

6 ай бұрын

WTF. 4X is all about turn based.