Exploring Colors: White (How to Paint White) - HC 442

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In this Hobby Cheating Tutorial, I take you through the pitfalls of white paint and how to avoid them, along with some tips and tricks for making your neutral highlighting easier. Hope you enjoy!
#warhammer #miniaturepainting
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0:00 Intro
0:50 Background
3:00 How it Works
7:25 Painting White
14:05 Near Whites
15:25 Pure White Paint
17:00 Outro

Пікірлер: 248

  • @vivanjester431
    @vivanjester4312 ай бұрын

    Vince is so powerful he can paint a portal back home while at adepticon just to give us a hobby cheating video

  • @maximebemer3407

    @maximebemer3407

    2 ай бұрын

    😂 Is it possible to learn that power??

  • @grimoirworkshop6623

    @grimoirworkshop6623

    2 ай бұрын

    We already established he can mind control people too.

  • @grimoirworkshop6623

    @grimoirworkshop6623

    2 ай бұрын

    Maybe Vince is secretly prince of Amber? They knew the art if drawing portals.

  • @Linkittytetris

    @Linkittytetris

    4 күн бұрын

    "Hello everybody! And welcome to another hobby cheating video. Today we're gonna talk about magic colors, and I don't mean Citadel's Aether-whatsit blue. Let's get into it."

  • @Misterfairweather
    @Misterfairweather2 ай бұрын

    Sorry, sorry everyone, this is my fault I was rewatching all his prior white videos this week because every few years I decide to challenge myself by painting in white and black and Vince is my source for actually learning how to work with colors. Thank you for the color videos, they fill a big gap in my understanding of how to paint.

  • @cybermbebe

    @cybermbebe

    2 ай бұрын

    Oh yeah. These are A-MA-ZING!

  • @jillsyillsy
    @jillsyillsy2 ай бұрын

    Thanks so much, Vince. As a woodcarver, I use white all the time for painting Santas and snowmen and have the hardest time trying to shade and highlight. (And differentiate Santa's beard from fur on his coat). Great tutorials!

  • @bragoen
    @bragoen2 ай бұрын

    5:04 "Here's my first piece of advice to make white easy to paint" and in my mind I just go "Don't".... I laugh so hard when that's exactly what you said

  • @thornthallid950
    @thornthallid9502 ай бұрын

    Loving all the MtG angels on the screens in the intro background.

  • @Krullio

    @Krullio

    2 ай бұрын

    Notice the one with all the different white tints/tones. Pretty applicable hehe. Subliminal messaging that technomancer Vince throws at us

  • @jorgemontero6384
    @jorgemontero63842 ай бұрын

    That AK pastel purple is a killer that I am surprised you never mentioned in your list of favorite colors, because basically nobody else in mini painting makes it, and it's just as good illuminator for purples and magentas as ice yellow is for many other colors. Ice yellow just overpinks magentas. I just don't touch purple without it

  • @philgee486
    @philgee4862 ай бұрын

    Vince is my encyclopaedia of hobby thinking, I watch other people paint, I learn things from Marco, from Riccardo, the Wappel, I'm inspired by Alex and many others but when I need a specific subject analysis, when I need that full understanding to slot into a project, when I want to paint black hair and get the halo right, when I want to take flesh tones in an evil or underground direction, when I have 50 yellow marines to paint, I come to my reference library that is Vince. I'm so grateful for it. There's no-one else that comes close

  • @AVS_uk
    @AVS_uk2 ай бұрын

    This is super helpful Vince. My job is to paint the snow on Mount Blanc (most people don't know that snow actually falls blue and we Snow Painters have to paint it all white), so this video will really help me out. Your ski trip will look much whiter next winter

  • @razzlebazzle420

    @razzlebazzle420

    2 ай бұрын

    Are you new, i went on a school trip about 21 years ago and the last guy was killing it

  • @AVS_uk

    @AVS_uk

    2 ай бұрын

    @@razzlebazzle420 - ah yes, that would have been Old Bill - a legend in my field. He painted the slopes for 40 years, a real expert and genius at ice whites.

  • @razzlebazzle420

    @razzlebazzle420

    2 ай бұрын

    @@AVS_uk Glorious. Tell me, did he paint the ice-caves with all the sculptures too? His mastery of translucent glazes absolutely blows me away. One day I hope to gain such skills.

  • @OlafKievit
    @OlafKievit2 ай бұрын

    Thanks for stretching my ideas about "near whites" a bit farther out, much appreciated, Vince!

  • @VinceVenturella

    @VinceVenturella

    2 ай бұрын

    My pleasure!

  • @Slayernuke83
    @Slayernuke832 ай бұрын

    Thank you for the video. I have the most difficulty in getting white to look right on so many items.

  • @markgnepper5636
    @markgnepper56362 ай бұрын

    I love all Vince Ventrella Stuff 👏👍

  • @wpb5876
    @wpb587628 күн бұрын

    So much appreciation for all your work and sharing your knowledge of painting. I’m planning to paint a white Manticore (based on the Dark Souls mini-boss) and this video is a godsend!

  • @VinceVenturella

    @VinceVenturella

    28 күн бұрын

    Wonderful!

  • @KujoPainting
    @KujoPaintingАй бұрын

    Something that helped me was just to think of it as painting a light colour, rather than painting white. So a light green, light pink, light blue etc. Then when it's surrounded by darker colours it reads as white even though it's not.

  • @VinceVenturella

    @VinceVenturella

    Ай бұрын

    Absolutely agreed! Hope you're doing well sir.

  • @gerritvandenbosch4681
    @gerritvandenbosch46812 ай бұрын

    This reminds me of my graphic design work in printing. White is easily tainted by other colours, but when near whites are next to white you almost never cam tell, and sometimes looks better than unprinted white areas.

  • @mr.adamski6431
    @mr.adamski64312 ай бұрын

    I’ve been struggling with painting white for years. Thanks for the useful info and tips!

  • @VinceVenturella

    @VinceVenturella

    2 ай бұрын

    Happy to help!

  • @mattbrown1306
    @mattbrown13062 ай бұрын

    Another timely, helpful, and accessible tutorial. Vince continues to crush hobby content.

  • @galatician8063
    @galatician80632 ай бұрын

    I appreciate your black and white values: Painting over black: "Stop waisting your life". Painting pure white: "Just don't!" (Unless it's a glint).

  • @MarketResearchReading114
    @MarketResearchReading1142 ай бұрын

    Gloss+white is such a nice shout, thank you Vince!

  • @martinsteward1657
    @martinsteward16572 ай бұрын

    Brilliant video! Shocked at how white those paints looked on the model.

  • @aspect0
    @aspect02 ай бұрын

    Not really a white painter, but those pastel colours look super unique compared to other ranges! Going to get the set now, they seem very versatile for general simple highlighting

  • @ThePingouin2ter
    @ThePingouin2ter2 ай бұрын

    Thank you so much for this one. The pastel blue becoming a white when applied was eye opening.

  • @kevinhayes517
    @kevinhayes5172 ай бұрын

    Another superb tutorial packed with the underlying theories (which you make easily understandable) and a lot of great tips for the painting process on this color……thank you so much for you time and effort to help us paint better!

  • @VinceVenturella

    @VinceVenturella

    2 ай бұрын

    Glad it was helpful!

  • @flowersofsulphur5532
    @flowersofsulphur55322 ай бұрын

    Some really interesting points. Thank you for taking the time to share. I was hoping you'd also cover the use of white to lighten colors and things to think about (e.g. for edge highlighting if you don't have a go-to pot of paint that is already lighter/brighter that meets your needs. So for example - what are the pitfalls? ... and do you need to sometimes think to offset by adding white + another warm/cold color?).

  • @VinceVenturella

    @VinceVenturella

    2 ай бұрын

    In general, I just mix in a little bit of those pastel near whites into my base tone to knock out the edge.

  • @oleww50
    @oleww502 ай бұрын

    Not sure how you do it but you always seem to read my mind with these videos! White is on my agenda 😅🙏❤️

  • @brkfstfd
    @brkfstfd2 ай бұрын

    I've been doing some of my highest highlights on S2D lately with the updated game color Verdigris. That's a really great way to see how composition and surroundings influence how color reads. No one would assume it's verdigris without being told. It reads as 99% dead white next to so much payne's gray and black.

  • @SigurdDecroos
    @SigurdDecroos2 ай бұрын

    Golden Soflat has some new colors added to the range, a lot of pastels and near whites. They paint really smooth.

  • @DrScotavious
    @DrScotaviousАй бұрын

    Vince talking about the white glint and my eyes immediately flicker to his forehead. Im bald too, i just thought that was funny 😂

  • @76trizzy
    @76trizzy2 ай бұрын

    Thanks Vince! Very helpful

  • @RookieBrushes
    @RookieBrushes2 ай бұрын

    My favourite series is back! Thank you for everything you do.

  • @goforitpainting
    @goforitpainting2 ай бұрын

    Cool as always. 🖌

  • @Benry87
    @Benry872 ай бұрын

    Another killer tutorial. Great job as always!

  • @Cordeneaux87
    @Cordeneaux872 ай бұрын

    You can tell Vince recently updated his kitchen and his wife won out on the color aesthetic...

  • @gabyzzeetoon4516

    @gabyzzeetoon4516

    2 ай бұрын

    😂😂😂

  • @milamilla1977
    @milamilla19772 ай бұрын

    Master! You experience is invaluable!

  • @Satli
    @Satli2 ай бұрын

    I bought the Golden SoFlat box after you did a video on it a while back. By far the best white paint I've tried.

  • @JackDespero
    @JackDespero2 ай бұрын

    Amazing video. Thank you for sharing.

  • @edgarbaez516
    @edgarbaez5162 ай бұрын

    This video has been on my wishlist for awhile, I'm excited its finally here!

  • @MaskedRiderChris
    @MaskedRiderChris2 ай бұрын

    Oh yes, I still dread painting white even after what, 14-15 years of painting! But this is, as usual, an excellent video full of good information, thank you Vince!

  • @VinceVenturella

    @VinceVenturella

    2 ай бұрын

    You can do it!

  • @Wijkert
    @Wijkert2 ай бұрын

    I have been experimenting with mixing in white ink into regular acrylics. Ink is glossy as well, so seems to have a similar effect to your suggestion of mixing in gloss varnish into pure white. One extra advance of adding gloss to white paint is that it counteracts the grainy finish. I have "fixed" physical texture with gloss varnish in the past (i probably learned that trick from you Vince... 😉)

  • @MisterTingles
    @MisterTingles2 ай бұрын

    stellar as always!

  • @HedoniteOfPaint
    @HedoniteOfPaint2 ай бұрын

    Amazing to see the color series extended! Thanks again and hope you are enjoying Adepticon

  • @cyagen9782
    @cyagen97822 ай бұрын

    I enjoy this Serie a lot more than I should. Thanks Vince

  • @Maximilian4th
    @Maximilian4th2 ай бұрын

    Thanks vince you gave me the inspiration for a heresy project i’m working on.

  • @tankressvasquez1704
    @tankressvasquez17042 ай бұрын

    Very helpful thanks

  • @GhostGuitars
    @GhostGuitars2 ай бұрын

    Fascinating. Thank you

  • @VinceVenturella

    @VinceVenturella

    2 ай бұрын

    Glad you enjoyed it

  • @davidfurr6519
    @davidfurr65192 ай бұрын

    Excellent video. Thank you Vince.

  • @VinceVenturella

    @VinceVenturella

    2 ай бұрын

    Very welcome

  • @johnbruce4004
    @johnbruce40042 ай бұрын

    I watched this virtually in slo-mo, so much info. Really, really helpful and superb explanation. Have a great rest of Adepticon. Thanks.

  • @YeemRAG
    @YeemRAG2 ай бұрын

    Another fantastic video, thank you so much!

  • @VinceVenturella

    @VinceVenturella

    2 ай бұрын

    Glad you enjoyed it!

  • @Wijkert
    @Wijkert2 ай бұрын

    One of my favorite series is back!

  • @shawnfairbanks9339
    @shawnfairbanks9339Ай бұрын

    Hah, I’ve been saying that about white (and white walls) for years, it’s nice to see the pros say it.

  • @tjthehobopainter9173
    @tjthehobopainter91732 ай бұрын

    Another great lesson ^^ And nice to see Larry make his guest appearance again 😄

  • @milamilla1977
    @milamilla19772 ай бұрын

    I was making fairy garden for kids and used your advise to paint white parts of the project. Turned out really well!

  • @alternate3787
    @alternate37872 ай бұрын

    I got a lot of inspiration from the MtG set Mirrodin, where everything is made of metal. The amount of bright reflections while staying diverse enough to present a world is really something

  • @shaunkrogulski9619
    @shaunkrogulski96192 ай бұрын

    Great information as always!!

  • @VinceVenturella

    @VinceVenturella

    2 ай бұрын

    Glad it was helpful!

  • @markdorn8873
    @markdorn88732 ай бұрын

    I wish I'd seen this video before painting my Shining Spears. Thanks for sharing! Also, I don't think I've ever seen a video where someone says, "Let's grab Larry out, and we're just going to paint his butt." 😂

  • @SigurdBraathen
    @SigurdBraathen2 ай бұрын

    I never thought of mixing white with gloss varnish. Thanks for a great video!

  • @VinceVenturella

    @VinceVenturella

    2 ай бұрын

    Glad it was helpful!

  • @KevinoftheCosmos
    @KevinoftheCosmos2 ай бұрын

    Adding a gloss medium to pure white is brilliant. I can't believe I've never thought of that before. Cheers, Vince!

  • @Razyrazer
    @Razyrazer2 ай бұрын

    thx Vince this is exactly what i needed for my marines.

  • @thesoothsayer9223
    @thesoothsayer92232 ай бұрын

    Working on winter FEC and your signature blue white has been a perfect off white universal brightest highlight.

  • @rhag1394
    @rhag13942 ай бұрын

    Great guide again! I stilm find white very challenging to paint, but artists acrylic zinc white has helped me smooth the colours together. It's not chalky at all and you can even glaze with it but it's not the most straightforward paint otherwise. I got the idea from a Marco Frisoni video.

  • @chucklamb3496
    @chucklamb34962 ай бұрын

    Thanks so much Vince 👍

  • @ivan7672
    @ivan76722 ай бұрын

    thank you for the great explanation!

  • @VinceVenturella

    @VinceVenturella

    2 ай бұрын

    Glad it was helpful!

  • @cordial001
    @cordial0012 ай бұрын

    I love your hobby videos. You touched on how good the Pro Acryl off-whites are. I was blown away myself by how much better they are than most other lines on the market for those sorts of colors. I don't know how they do it.

  • @jasontrinque
    @jasontrinque2 ай бұрын

    That is a really interesting point about adding the gloss varnish to the white to make it read more white. Thank you for sharing that! I think I remember someone saying something similar for adding gloss black in shadows for reducing the graying effect that matte paint would cause. You have inspired me to try and experiment with going from trying a satin black shadow, matte layers, and then a gloss highlight! Fun!

  • @BaoZakeruga
    @BaoZakeruga2 ай бұрын

    New painter here and today was my first time trying to paint white. This video came at the perfect time.

  • @MobWob-
    @MobWob-2 ай бұрын

    Thx for the content

  • @wolfofwarYT
    @wolfofwarYT2 ай бұрын

    Great video as always. Especially love the part about complimentary colors as tint/shade on the white.

  • @VinceVenturella

    @VinceVenturella

    2 ай бұрын

    Glad you liked it!

  • @brkfstfd
    @brkfstfd2 ай бұрын

    Also, another reason to avoid dead white if at all possible that I've found, in my own experience anyway, is that even just a little bit of an actual color (so I'm talking ice yellow, glacier blue, verdigris, pastel-whatever, and not just a white heavy gray) is they tolerate glazing quite a bit more. Enough that I'll do it. I don't even bother trying to glaze just white.

  • @bunionsandcabbage6764
    @bunionsandcabbage67642 ай бұрын

    Man, I wish this video had come out like 2 weeks earlier. This was great info and I had just finished a black and white wasp for a commission.

  • @G0DlikeTrojan
    @G0DlikeTrojan2 ай бұрын

    Good video. Thanks for video!

  • @VinceVenturella

    @VinceVenturella

    2 ай бұрын

    Glad you liked it!

  • @chrisbarrett1006
    @chrisbarrett10062 ай бұрын

    Thanks for another great video Vince!

  • @VinceVenturella

    @VinceVenturella

    2 ай бұрын

    My pleasure!

  • @PhD777
    @PhD7772 ай бұрын

    Vince, another excellent informative video! There was an excellent, more in-depth article on painting white some years ago on Planet Figure about painting a French Imperial Guard 3rd (Dutch) Regiment large scale figure wearing a white uniform. It was done with warm shadows similar to your cape. On Historical figures from the late 18th to mid/late 19th C. You will find "dead white" used on belts, straps, and similar, especially when painting 15/18mm miniatures to make the belts, straps, and similar stand out.

  • @Isaac-hm6ih
    @Isaac-hm6ih2 ай бұрын

    I'm looking at painting an entire army with white capes soon, so this is convenient timing. Hopefully I'll be able to pick up a few extra tricks on top of your old videos, which already taught me to paint white well.

  • @Xaltotun
    @Xaltotun2 ай бұрын

    The timing of this video is perfect, as I am starting to build a Sisters of Sigmar warband for Mordheim.

  • @whofreakincares1000
    @whofreakincares10002 ай бұрын

    Love to see as always.

  • @Wadtomaton
    @Wadtomaton2 ай бұрын

    Great video Vince. Shout out to Larry's dumptruck 🤘🤣

  • @TravisHi_YT
    @TravisHi_YT2 ай бұрын

    5:03 I wish this was the first part of the video, I made the massive mistake of painting my Tau Army Scar White. I'll never use white as a feature color again. I'll always use a grey.

  • @Ash-sf4gr
    @Ash-sf4gr2 ай бұрын

    Aw yeah! A long awaited return to my favourite series. Would never have thought to mix gloss varnish into white paint, very interesting.

  • @VinceVenturella

    @VinceVenturella

    2 ай бұрын

    Glad you enjoyed it!

  • @notnubilous3804
    @notnubilous38042 ай бұрын

    Honestly the thing that really taught me about using white effectively was using artist grade acrylic mixing white, which doesn't really desaturate colors as much as a titanium white. But it really showed me how much depth of white you can get from just one color while mixing it with something else. I highly recommend it to everyone to try out.

  • @ramenron
    @ramenron2 ай бұрын

    You just had to show that bloody painting, didn't you!?! We were distracted by the french for Crom's sake. Keep up (the otherwise) great work Mr. V.

  • @Krullio
    @Krullio2 ай бұрын

    Can’t wait for the EC Black!

  • @bradlothrop4076
    @bradlothrop40762 ай бұрын

    Why not get into mixing? Titanium makes pastels when mixed but a "zinc white" is a good mixing white for lightening a colour due to being a bit transparent. I find this fact is where many paints go wrong much like titanium is added to a colour as more a gouache (to make opaque). This was observed a bit with the Army Painter Fanatic paints. Zinc white is the little known hero of how to lighten a paint and maintain some level of saturation. Great video and good note on gloss to make white read better.

  • @kingkreaghan6762
    @kingkreaghan67622 ай бұрын

    So helpful! I actually have a miniatures that has white armor. So great video for me to see! Awesome and informative as always.

  • @VinceVenturella

    @VinceVenturella

    2 ай бұрын

    Awesome! Thank you!

  • @AM-uw3gp
    @AM-uw3gp2 ай бұрын

    I love your screensaver Vince I can’t stop looking at the winged people

  • @VinceVenturella

    @VinceVenturella

    2 ай бұрын

    I love MTG angels :)

  • @redv.7686
    @redv.76862 ай бұрын

    Hello Mr. Venturella! I love your Exploring Colors series, they have been a major help with how I approach colours. However, it appears that you have omitted the video on chartreuse from your playlist, seeing as this recent Exploring Colors video has entered the list. Just thought I'd let you know. I look forward to the day when you do an Exploring Colors episode on the colour black!

  • @spuriusligustinus4509
    @spuriusligustinus45092 ай бұрын

    A video about white and not mentioning Pro Acryl Bold Titanium White, heresy ! I use it pure on the trims of the SP of my 1st company Ultramarines as well as the Ultima symbol. Works really well for an "in your face effect" while the rest is recess shaded and highlighted

  • @michaelshaw1782
    @michaelshaw17822 ай бұрын

    You can tell it's a good Hobby Cheating when you come away with more questions than you started with. How do I desaturate and darken my compositions to make the whites pop without losing the impact of my colours? Can I use varied tones to add visual interest to otherwise very flat white compositions? Very interested to try starting at a bone hue- previously I've been painting my way up from a tan/zandri dust kinda startline. Suddenly I'm excited to play around with white as a colour rather than avoid it

  • @VinceVenturella

    @VinceVenturella

    2 ай бұрын

    Let me take these in order. 1) The darker the piece, the less you have to go to white to make it seem like white, the more the value can lower and still feel like white. 2) Yes and you should. 3) Absolutely!

  • @terrydactyl2077
    @terrydactyl20772 ай бұрын

    God this video was what I needed! I haaaaate all my whites. But I’m grabbing then ProAcryl set soon finally.

  • @PhthaloGreenskin
    @PhthaloGreenskin2 ай бұрын

    There's a very easy trick to white I learned from Greg over at GRG miniatures. Basecoat kantor blue/Moletow Petrol then spray white ink from above sortof like a zenithal highlight. Super easy and great for stuff like white Armor.

  • @billmalandrino8337
    @billmalandrino83372 ай бұрын

    Hello! I wanted to take a moment to reach out and express my gratitude. Your instructional videos have been a significant help in my journey through miniature painting. Just before my 43rd birthday, I decided to dive into wargaming. After consulting with friends, I selected a couple of games and purchased the miniatures. Understanding that painting them would be part of the fun, I began watching tutorial videos, including yours, which stood out to me. The knowledge I've gleaned from your content has been immensely beneficial. Although I still face challenges, I'm feeling increasingly confident with each miniature I paint, all thanks to your guidance. Interestingly, I've discovered that I derive just as much, if not more, enjoyment from painting as I do from playing the games themselves. So, thank you for generously sharing your expertise, and continue being amazing

  • @VinceVenturella

    @VinceVenturella

    2 ай бұрын

    Wonderful the hear and always happy to help!

  • @candidgamera
    @candidgamera2 ай бұрын

    Yeah, I have a few pure whites from various lines, and honestly, I am tempted to just toss them in the trash .. but the idea of a mix with gloss medium is interesting.

  • @MattCexwish
    @MattCexwish2 ай бұрын

    Thanks for this Video, Vince! :) I remember how back in the day, the great José Manuel Palomares Nunez (JMPN) and Alfonso Banshee Giraldes were showing how one can paint the White Robes of the Knight Model's Anakin vs. Obiwan Diorama with different shades of orange and green, yet still achieving an amazing perceived White Effect! As a rule of thumb, never use pure White in anything (similar to how you should never use a pure Black) and mix in tiny amounts of accompaning tones found in the scene to tie the piece together. Keep those Videos coming :)

  • @Fortunes.Fool.
    @Fortunes.Fool.2 ай бұрын

    I wish I was starting the hobby now, tutorials like this would’ve been amazing because the advice I got 20 years ago was terrible 😂

  • @chasechristensen7617
    @chasechristensen7617Ай бұрын

    Man I would love to watch you paint white Viorla Sept Tau

  • @Streetsam
    @StreetsamАй бұрын

    Great!

  • @TerrierHalo
    @TerrierHalo2 ай бұрын

    I did get the Monument white just to see if it was real, and now I find myself mixing paints with it all the time so that kind of backfired. :D I would get their off-whites to make my life easier but they’re kind of expensive and hard to get over here, so that’s on the some-day list. I have been trying to paint some white on a black banner and have not been happy with the end result, the (off) whites end result don’t look quite right, will have this fresh in mind on my next attempt, thank you kindly.

  • @alanwesley598
    @alanwesley5982 ай бұрын

    Everyone who paints minis needs this video.

  • @azuritet3
    @azuritet32 ай бұрын

    I just got some white Ikea furniture. I was thinking about painting it.

  • @Coordinator010
    @Coordinator0102 ай бұрын

    Okay Vince but now I have to go back and painstakingly repaint every single Black Templar shoulder with these cool new whites you've mentioned

  • @chrisleggett1303
    @chrisleggett13032 ай бұрын

    Just to be clear, I would 100% buy a Larry the Ogre t-shirt…or any other Larry merch 😂

  • @ILikeYous
    @ILikeYous2 ай бұрын

    When using wash/ink white to recess wash lines so you can color them and make them look like they are glowing, like a 40k Space Marine Librarian Armor or a AoS Chaos Lord do you use one of the near white colors or go straight for flat white in whatever mixture you use? I know oil washing is popular but I am referring to acrylics as I don't break out the oil paints unless I am going for bulk painting or display/contest quality stuff.

  • @VinceVenturella

    @VinceVenturella

    2 ай бұрын

    Either can work really.

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