The irony of you talking about cars bursting into flames due to E10 fuel whilst wearing a fire emergency t-Shirt is not lost on me! 😂

@martinneumann7783

3 жыл бұрын

You wrote my thoughts... 🔥😃🔥

@meganwiseman3690

3 жыл бұрын

Great to see the t-shirts still going strong 👩‍🚒🔥🚒🇳🇿

The main effect E10 will have is less mileage for the same amount of fuel as it's less energy dense, in fact it's not very good for the environment as you need to use more of it to go the same distance.

@urshochstrasser8859

3 жыл бұрын

I don’t know what exactly is in our “unleaded 95” here in Switzerland, but I get 10% better fuel economy in Italy with my DS. Makes one wonder…

@crazygeorgelincoln

3 жыл бұрын

I knew there was something duff about American fuel. Think Scotty kilmer issues with ethenol laiden fuel.. Don't think they will reduce the emmense tax on it despite it being less fuel.per liter

@Pickchore

3 жыл бұрын

But we all know that the environmental issue isn't really that important when you see the damage battery production creates.

@TimSmyth23

3 жыл бұрын

Your proof of this please …

@tony66au

3 жыл бұрын

Yup, the volumetric efficiency in Aussie fuels with 10% Ethanol is lower when blended with 91 octane unleaded so the sneaky buggers now blend it with 95 octane to even out the mileage consumption and your ignition timing will need tweaking too if E10 is all you have after the conversion. Upper cylinder lubricant helps a lot, 2 cups in my old SU fed Range rover (100lt tank though) . Our unleaded goes "off" quick too, 3 months for 91, 95 and 98 or 100 octane. E10 seems to last about the same these days.

Here in the Netherlands we made the switch to e10 a while ago, and so far both my old cars have been fine running on it. I did have to replace the 40 year old rubber fuel lines on one of them because they started sweat some petrol after about a month of e10 running, but I’ve had to do no adjustment to the carbs or anything. I do fill the tank with some supper 98 (that’s usually still e5 or less here) if I know one of the vehicles will be parked up for a while, just to avoid ethanol staying still inside the rubber lines for a long period.

@lehammemes9340

2 жыл бұрын

What cars you got?

@Tiesproductions

2 жыл бұрын

​@@lehammemes9340 I've got a 1988 Austin mini and a 1977 Bedford CF. I've used both e5 and e10 in both, and never been able to tell the difference.

@lorraineclarke7741

2 жыл бұрын

It's no good

At last someone that speaks a lot of sense , very reassuring thanks ..

THANK YOU for discussing this! The more "popular" KZread pundits are blind siding this and continue to review the latest £200k supercar and the like. Well Done!

Hi Hubnut. Yes, we'll have to muddle through, as you say. Fuel hose is just hose and not difficult to replace. O-rings can be changed too. Of more concern is to what extent fuel pump diaphragms or accelerator pump diaphragms will be remanufactured. Probably if you've got a Moggie you'll be catered for. But if you have something a bit less common it's rather a worry. Cheers.

I have real world experience of the problems with E10 as I live in a country where E10 has been the standard for at least a decade. Yes E10 will destroy rubber components that are not specified to cope with it. As an example I have a classic car that is 30 years old. The fuel pump is submerged. The fuel pump itself has no rubber parts but it is rubber mounted and it uses rubber O ring seals. One tank full of E10 was all it took to flush rubber fragments through the entire fuel system requiring replacement of the fuel pump, fuel filter and all the injectors. I also replaced all the fuel lines at the same time with E10 compatible parts although there were no obvious signs of damage. I have also seen corrosion damage to carburettors and fuel tanks internally with E10 where fuel was left in the system for more than, say, a month. Beyond that I also have a suspicion that E10 spills can cause damage to paintwork. I certainly wouldn't recommend using E10 to remove tar spots from paintwork. My advice is if a vehicle run on E10, or indeed anything ICE run on E10, is going to sit for more than about a month drain the entire fuel system and use fresh fuel when you next use it. You can put the drained fuel in your daily, your lawnmower or whatever. One last point. Two stroke engines generally do not get on well with E10. The problem is that with almost all two strokes I have seen the fuel passes through the crankcase on the way to the combustion chamber. The crankcases have rubber seals that are vital to the engine working.

@martinkupka3575

3 жыл бұрын

👍 I just wanted to write a similar story when I saw that you already did it. Want to add that Ethanol has less energy content and so you pay more to drive the same distance if you use E10 instead of E5 (if the tax is the same). And yes, E10 dissolves some paints.

@j.h.9410

3 жыл бұрын

Don't put old fuel in your mower. They are even more sensitive to it because everything in the carb and such is smaller. (I work on them for a living and carbs clogged with using 'bad' fuel is a daily problem)

@NOWThatsRichy

3 жыл бұрын

@@martinkupka3575 Although I don't drive, I still have a healthy interest in cars & transport, The real reason this E10 change is being done, is to try & get older cars off the road & to make people buy electric cars, in name of 'being green' or 'saving the planet' ( these are the next big scams to befall the public), give it a few more years & the bio ethanol content will be increased to 15% meaning even less vehicles will be compatible. Electric cars are not as green as people think, once you start taking into account the materials mining, battery manufacturering & disposal, plus the power used for charging. It'll be decades until or even if ever enough charging infrastructure is available to make it a completely viable concept. There has recently been a government announced plan to stop building diesel powered lorries by 2040, to be replaced by electric versions!

@tjfSIM

3 жыл бұрын

@@NOWThatsRichy The charging infrastructure is improving and expanding at an exponential rate now. One of the hurdles to jump is the problem with on street charging for people who don’t have the luxury of their own driveway - there are a number of schemes looking to tackle that, and you will start to see sales of EVs or PHEVs overtaking ICE vehicles before the decade is out. Like it or not, electric vehicles are here to stay!

@tjfSIM

3 жыл бұрын

@@r.h.8754 The supply network will cope fine - firstly not everyone will be moving to EVs overnight, the move will be happening over a period of years, which will allow plenty of time for the grid to adapt to demand levels. But the national grid have already debunked the myth that EV charging will outstrip supply. Have a read here: www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero/5-myths-about-electric-vehicles-busted

Every classic car I've owned I've replaced every fuel hose and stripped and rebuilt carbs as a matter of safety .. usually these rubber parts are on their last legs anyway.. just like brakes I always start with all new parts as a point of safety.. but I'm an ex mechanic so there's no labour cost. Not sure what my point is but classic cars require love and attention which is why we like them . Peace and love brother 👍🏻☮❤

@kyrieeleison1905

3 жыл бұрын

problem is now is that replacement parts are junk too, poorly made chinese crap that has been made to lowest possible cost.. everything is poor quality including, most likely, fuel hoses..

@stewartellinson8846

3 жыл бұрын

yes, I wonder about people who use 20/30/40 year old fuel and oil hose and then are horrified when it fails!

@levelcrossing150

3 жыл бұрын

Yes all hoses should be checked periodically, it's only good servicing practice.

@springy-2112

3 жыл бұрын

@@kyrieeleison1905 That's a good point . It's hard to find any quality parts now .. btw love the channel name .. is it a MrMr reference or the actual original meaning ..Lord have Mercy (me trying to be cultured) Peace and love 👍🏻☮❤

After some 100 thousands km in several Cars 20 years old and older after the introduction of E10 in Germany about 13 years ago I can confirm that nothing dramatically happened...

@Schattennaseweis

2 жыл бұрын

Well, you can still buy regular E5 at most fuel stations over here in Germany, so why take the risk?

@jamesskinner4188

2 жыл бұрын

Good 👍 great comments thanks

We have E10 here in Mauritius. Cars seem to run OK but don't like bing left, particularly in the summer here. It does get pretty damn hot!. The fuel tends to turn into very sticky gunk which can cause issues with carbs and injectors. If you are going to store a car for months then I would suggest that the car is completely drained of fuel. I know it's a pain but, trust me, it makes life so much easier when you want to start using it again.

E10 doesn't like siting around for long,it goes off quicker

@martijnkosters9024

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, but we're talking half years instead of years for E5 petrol. People tend to overexaggerate this.

@volvo480

3 жыл бұрын

@@martijnkosters9024 I tend to fill up with E5 rather than E10 if a tank of fuel lasts longer than 3 months. Look up "phase separation" if you want to learn more about this.

@Candisa

3 жыл бұрын

@@martijnkosters9024 No overexageration: I bought a brand new car in 2016 with an LPG conversion. I made sure to drive at least 100km on E5 petrol per 480-530km (a tank) on LPG, filling up the petrol tank every 2-3 months when it got below a quarter of its capacity, always at the same A-brand petrol station, yet I started to have cold start issues after only 2 years. Not thinking about the petrol a lot of possible causes were checked before simply emptying the petrol tank and flushing the system solved it. According to my dealer this happens even a lot quicker when using E10 in cars that aren't driven (on petrol) very often. Since then, apart from only using E5, I made sure to only fill up the amount of petrol I can use in 1 month, driving for way beyond the point the fuel light comes on every few month so there's as little as possible old fuel in the tank before filling up... fingers crossed, all is going fine for over 3 years now. I can only imagine the effects on older cars... Unfortunately it's only a matter of time before E5 will become unavailable and ethanol content will go up even more despite not being any better for the environment than 100% dinosaur-based petrol.

@baird55aus

3 жыл бұрын

@@Candisa That is interesting. I run an Australia 1999 Ford Fairmont wagon that has been dual fuel since new. I run a tank of E10 for every three tanks of LPG and have had absolutely no problems. I do start the car on petrol and then switch to LPG once the engine warms up as this gives me better economy on the LPG.

@Candisa

3 жыл бұрын

@@baird55aus Mine (2016 Fiat T-Jet) starts and runs on petrol until coolant temperature reaches 35°C, plus it also switches to petrol above 4500rpm. Climate is probably a factor in this.

Been removing ethanol for use in my 2 stroke premix petrol powered tools and model r/c trucks by using the 'add water and let it settle out in a container' trick. Use TetraBoost E Guard 15 additive in my 1980 Mini, lead octane booster and ethanol protection.. Oh more Petrol Tax and VAT collected because of less mpg performance. 🤔 🤐😎

@twocvbloke

3 жыл бұрын

Sad part is, they're using the ethanol as a cheaper octane booster, so washing it out reduces the petrol's performance, not an issue for things like garden tools or small generators, but for cars it can kill the power, unless you added it back by other (often expensive off-the-shelf magic potion bottles) means...

Having had to replace all the fuel lines in my Rover SD1, I can confirm that E10 eats rubber hoses from the inside and then leaves a disgusting residue that clogs injectors and carburettors. They look fine on the outside, but you don't notice until you open the bonnet and find a fountain of petrol going all over everything.

@ghostbike1

2 жыл бұрын

My carb pipes done that on my SD1 with out E10

Great advice 👍I used to work at the BECCA petrol station in Sarnau, now I believe it's an army surplus store ☺️ I remember putting 2 star into my moped, also pumping 3 and 4 star into customers vehicles at 55p a Gallon ! The pumps were old and you used to have to push a button on the front to select your fuel grade and watch the GALLONS click round, a squirt of reddex in the tank sir ? Ahh the good old days ☺️

I remember 2 star petrol and my grandad would only run his Cooper S on 5 star. I remember the hype for unleaded and I remember they had to change every pump because they only want up to 99p

@Drive-n-Vibe

3 жыл бұрын

i'd love to live in that world. nearly 130 a litre round my ends.

@keithhoughton4308

3 жыл бұрын

Unleaded fuel pumps were almost completely ignored until the government knocked 10 pence off a gallon unleaded. It's all price driven so many people will take a chance. Have a look at the KZread videos showing how to remove it from pump fuel at home.

@nigelclark7360

3 жыл бұрын

I can remember when they brought out the Rover 2000 in 1968 these cars could only run on 100 octane petrol as damage would be done to the engine,when they phased out 100 octane, you could run them on 99 octane with a modification. 100 octane leaded petrol was made for the Spitfire during the war.

There is a channel called Project Farm where the gentleman does all kinds of tests on things and one of them is on ethanol in fuel. It is worth a look. The main problem is going to be with vehicles that are not used much because of the way ethanol attracts water. That causes problems. This is going to open up the field of ethanol extraction in fuel additives. Good Luck!

@rich_edwards79

3 жыл бұрын

Ironic that this supposedly 'green' measure will disincentivise the occasional use of cars. Almost makes me wonder if it's more to do with generating tax revenue through enforced obsolescence.

Glad you mentioned how glass fibre goes up very enthusiastically. I saw several Reliants self-cremate back in the day, presumably due to wiring issues that are so critical in non-metal bodied cars. Pretty unlikely that younger enthusiasts will ever have seen this happen, so there's a fair chance some are driving glass fibre bodied cars with no idea of the potential for them to become mobile bonfires.

@rodhili3946

3 жыл бұрын

My uncle had a breakers yard in tamworth. Every burnt out reliant chassis was collected by the factory, cleaned up, and, at least, the rear axle went back onto the assembly line.

I don't suppose we'll pay less tax on it.

@rheinerftvideo2647

3 жыл бұрын

In Germany E10 is cheaper than standard petrol and not suitable for every car. Cars from the 1990ies should not use it.

@qasimmir7117

3 жыл бұрын

Doubt it.

Hi Ian, what you say is correct. In the Netherlands we have had E10 for some time, I myself have renewed all fuel hoses for hoses that can handle E10. In addition, I use Ethanol Killer from Millers Oil. Haven't had any problems yet, I maintain my cars well.

A two-stroke Saab would be a great addition to the fleet!

@tauncfester3022

3 жыл бұрын

Until you need spare parts, BTDT.

Bring Back Four Star!

@sim6699

3 жыл бұрын

Have to agree, car ran much better and the lead lubricated better than sulphur, before most of that was removed

The reason I would be worried about this like hearing Jay Leno modifying some his cars like his Mercedes 600 to have water injection because of the ethanol in the petrol. I think I will use e5 super unleaded if possible

@TimSmyth23

3 жыл бұрын

And Jay Leno presumably gets UK-spec E10 unleaded tankered in to use in his fleet to make the direct comparison you allude to relevant. Compare like with like before you start slabbering.

@georgepom328

3 жыл бұрын

@@TimSmyth23 No because california uses e10 as well and don't be rude

I'm advising everyone to enjoy owning a honking great big V8 whilst we still can.....

@adamspitfire

2 жыл бұрын

Advice followed! Picking up a 5.7l V8 immediately.

I'm old enough to remember garages selling Cleveland Discol petrol. They actively promoted the fact that it contained alcohol. Plus ca change!

@levelcrossing150

3 жыл бұрын

Yes I remember Cleveland petrol in the town where I grew up, it's been gone years.

@nigelclark7360

3 жыл бұрын

Yes l remember also, Cleveland Discol The advert read, Power boosting fuel Because it had a fairly large content of alcohol in it.

1988 vaz 21057 (Lada Riva) , he have been running happily on E10 which I give him for much much years now - in principle , his engine sees no difference, but fuel pipes have potential of damage,yet in my example, there is none from what I have seen; and he still has original AvtoVAZ fuel pipes))

The US has E 10 in it's gasoline (petrol.) In older vehicles it can damage fuel lines and inner carburetor parts made of rubber or plastic. It also reduces performance as ethanol fuel only burns at 2/3 the efficiency of 100% petrol. It also absorbs water which will rust metal parts in the fuel system. Not to mention the shelf life is only about 90 days. Bring back pure petrol!

@robenglish416

3 жыл бұрын

Absorbs water ? Don’t think so! In Sweden we used to add ethanol or likewise (methanol) in winter to not add water in the good old days when we poisoned our children with leaded petrol. Motorist organisations always against any change: first it was unleaded fuel then catalytic exhaust cleaners (13 years after the US) and now e10. HubNut can hope that people will drive less but I think that’s not happening, especially not in the UK with rubbish public transport outside London and other mayor cities.

@legionnairegonk4425

3 жыл бұрын

@@robenglish416 Ethanol absorbs water, and E10 is widely experienced to be holding more than e5 (naturally as it's twice the concentrate). Many owners of classics are reporting problems with fuel turning to thick jelly substance if left in tank and corrosion problems. www.petrolplaza.com/knowledge/2283

@ArthurRoy13

3 жыл бұрын

@@robenglish416 Ethanol is hygroscopic which means it does infact absorb water. It takes only a small amount of absorbed water for the ethanol to phase separate out of the gas. That can and does cause problems in older cars.

@robenglish416

3 жыл бұрын

@@ArthurRoy13 ok, yes it mixes with water and petrol which in the old days before e-5 we added ethanol to petrol in winter to prevent ice clogging carburettor.

@levelcrossing150

3 жыл бұрын

@@robenglish416 The only direct way into reducing traffic on our roads is to ensure railways are available in all areas, opening up closed railway lines and a regular, reliable, comfortable service for a fair price. Can you imagine the amount of lines that could have been reopened if the government had not opted for HS2.

Its also an issue with motocycles as there are some of us who are "summer"riders due to choice/ill health. I've gone through no end of fuel lines that have just rotted away from the inside out. Worst bit is at least half of these lines had the latest BS stamped on them. Tried cotton wrapped, pure nylon, fuel grade rubber lines, they all just disintegrated internally. Great fun as you end up having to strip and clean the carburetors as well. Tried fuel additives but they just seem to slow the process down. Tried draining the tank but then you get condensation in there which is no good either. Wish I had an answer but unfortunately I don't. Will have to wait and see if the latest replacement will stand up to E5 let alone E10.

@daveswarbrick5576

3 жыл бұрын

I do a lot of work on bikes, like you say, those that aren't ridden over winter or stored, not used very often, i've found that the ethanol is shrinking and making carburettor seals hard and brittle ,along with furring up the internals , only thing you can do, any replacement O rings or fuel lines are compatible with ethanol , drain the carbs if the bike is being left for a long time, as for fuel left in the tank, well, you can try an additive, not had much success on that front, if you leave the tank with some fuel in, you get rust as the ethanol also attracts water, i personally drain the tank and add some engine oil, then swill it about to coat the inside of the tank. It will be an ongoing problem. One thing worth investing in if you do your own maintenance is a small ultrasonic bath, they are ideal for cleaning carb parts, jets ect

@borderlands6606

3 жыл бұрын

This has happened to my petrol powered strimmer, the fuel lines perished from the inside. I empty the tank between use as the least worse option.

@jeremytoms5163

3 жыл бұрын

Classic with the fuel standards is that after the first couple rotted out, I bought the replacements from "reputable" online motorcycle parts dealers. Haven't had any luck with them either. One reply was that I must be storing them wrong, I've only been riding and wrenching since I was 12 and I'm 58 now! It's really only the last 5 years that I've had this issue. Ah well, the joys of motoring, whether on 2 wheels or 4.😅

Fair points Ian I remember all of the issues when 4 star was phased out and classics have got through that and will continue to

Thanks Ian. Doesn't actually affect me but still appreciate your straightforward, honest approach.

There was a video recently showing how to take ethanol out of petrol, it uses water with food colouring poured into the petrol, the ethanol settles at the bottom of the container with the water, then you siphon the straight petrol off. Look up the video on you tube.

@tauncfester3022

3 жыл бұрын

And it's a really bad idea first off you'll never get all of the Ethanol out, secondly you end up with fuel that's effectively worse than regular gas, more like 85 octane, and there will always be a bit of water dissolved in the gas which will corrode your Zimak and brass parts, and cause green jelly plugs in the idle and emulsifier circuits. Non ethanol is easily found and you'll never have to fight water adsorption and water contamination in your fuel. Please stop recommending this idiotic idea.

Over here in Brazil we don't have much of a choice. All our fuel is at least E27 haha. The carb in my Mercedes w123 has a completly different fine tune from the ones sold in Europe because of that. Newer fuel injected Mercs, like w202s and w210s seem to run fine though.

Love your videos, proper good to see ya still going

Good points well made. No one wants to see an oldie lost or any one getting hurt.

Great topic. Also love the work with the better camera lens combo

We have had 10 for years here in the states no real issues except with 2 cycles they do not fair well and the fuel stations, some anyway, usually have 1 pump with ethanol free for that purpose.

Preventative maintenance is what an old car owner ( the car and the owner) has to be aware of. Petseal the tank so moisture absorbed doesn’t rust it out, new hoses all round. Carry a spare float if it’s a soldered one, etc. I ran an iron head landrover a six fifty triumph and a five hundred 1948 bsa with an iron head on unleaded, no bother. Good sensible video, nice one Ian

I guess my real issue is with the deterioration of the fuel system when they moved over do all unleaded that was a real physical issue because a lot of cast iron heads were not suitable unless you put hardened valve seats in them. A specific issue and a very real and simple solution however the solution with ethanol based fuels is less certain. Leaded vs unleaded when you knew the solution beforehand in this case we do not know the solution and that is what is causing the anxiety

@francissomadaly4043

3 жыл бұрын

@Lassi Kinnunen 81 ano I've already done that recently as a matter of course because my car is 30 years old but it's the carburetor that's the unknown bit. Anyway, we'll see what we'll see. I already use 99 ron because the car runs smoother with better mpg

@ferrumignis

3 жыл бұрын

@Lassi Kinnunen 81 Not just the lines, some metals in older cars fuel systems are prone to corrosion with ethanol fuels.

When unleaded came in New Zealand all the fuel pipes on my Austin Maxi turned into a kind of jelly. One leaked at Countdown in Dunedin dumping a full tank of petrol into the side of the building... lots of fire engines arrived. The fire brigade made the car safe by claiming the hose and it was pushed well away. I purchased some hose and some tools from Repco up the road and drove home before the fire engines left.

Thanks for an objective, sensible article on this issue; I don’t necessarily think that classic car ownership and in particular usage is going to get any easier, I will jus5 have to happy that I can tinker more and possibly drive a bit less(?!)

Only thing I've had issues with ethanol fuel was my old (80s) snowblower, where the priming bulb turned to mush and clogged the carb. In Finland we have had only 95E10 and 98E5 for ages. Shell has V-power, but idk about the ethanol content of that. We do have small engine gasoline in cans that has no ethanol, but it's quite a bit more expensive than pump stuff.

Here in Canada the big problem we've had is with deterioration of rubber fuel hoses. But it's not a big job on most classics to replace the rubber lines with current production hose, which should be E10 compatible. And the fuel does go "off" very quickly if the car is in storage.

Ian, we have had E10 in Australia since 2005. I have been running my kombi on E10 for the last 15 years and the only thing I have noticed is that regular fuel hose if left on for a long time will tend to swell and can cause pipes to slip off barls. Most people use fuel injection rated hose which is ethanol stable, and I always use thin wire to tie the fuel jubilee's to the carb or fuel pump. No issues at all with valve seat recession. For iron block cars/heads people do put hardened valve seats and use an upper cylinder lubrication additive when they fill up. Best thing to do is consider all your fuel hoses service items, check them all at service time and replace them every 2 years.

Good and routine maintenance is good advice. I recall putting a small bag of lead into the fuel tank of my Vauxhall Viva only to see, years later, that it was unlikely to do anything! Apart from carting about a small bag of lead I didn't notice any difference in any case.

Very good info.

Castrol valve master plus appears to have something in it to counteract the ethanol as well as being a lead additive so I'm planning on trying that

@CaptHollister

3 жыл бұрын

There's always someone ready to take advantage of consumer fears preceding a major change.

@stusoldcars4248

3 жыл бұрын

@@CaptHollister thing is one of my classics needs the additive anyway so would be Ilsington it anyway

You begin to wonder if they are trying to get you convert to electric conversions for classics?

@fv7765

3 жыл бұрын

Ridiculous!

@KutreeZ

3 жыл бұрын

I would have to record a CD of some nice twin carb sounds to play through the stereo if I ever had to do such a thing, a small bottle of fuel too for the "Aroma" :D

@raychambers3646

3 жыл бұрын

@@fv7765 remember all petrol cars are bad,must swap to diesels, all diesels are bad let's go electric campaign.

@levelcrossing150

3 жыл бұрын

No way, it's like ripping the heart out of your classic car and loses half it's character. :-(

In the 50's Union Spirit was all the rage in KZN it was made from sugar cane and Morris Minors,Renault Dauphines etc thrived on it. Regular re-seating of valves was quite common though.

'Project Farm' soaked rubber and alloy parts in both E 10 and plain unleaded, for 3 months. The Ethanol partially dissolved the Alloy and hardened the rubber. The plain Unleaded just cleaned the alloy, and the rubber was still pliable. It absorbs water, and you get less mpg. What's not to dislike.

Funny, in Aus you can get Premium in most places! Classic car owners just use that, especially if the car doesn’t get used much.

I have upgraded my hoses already. Fingers crossed no problems.

I would at least change the fuel lines under the bonnet that could possibly leak onto hot or electrical parts initially. E10 may be an issue for the accelerator pump diaphragm within the carbs.

@motopanza

3 жыл бұрын

It does harden the accelerator pump diagphrams. I live in France and have had to replace 2 so far

We went through this in the states. Some air cooled cars needed valve seats replaced. Older cars (before 1991 ish) needed rubber fuel lines replaced. Older then that some carburetor floats and seals were not happy, along with some gas tank floats. Frequent changes of quality fuel filters will be needed for a while.

Finally a rational approach on the internet to the situation. The solution is pretty simple, use your vehicles regularly so fuel doesn't sit around too long and check / maintain your vehicles regularly, which everyone with older vehicles should be doing already! Regardless of the fuel it will cause trouble if left to sit too long.

Glad to hear you mention 2 strokes… my LML Star (Indian Vespa) would be an unpleasant place to be struck by an E-10 bug, given that she’d likely have an engine seize… I’ll be researching this carefully!

I hate to break it to you - but it’s here already! Filled our modern ‘boring’ car up yesterday at Sainsbury - E10 on the pump

I use it in classics that get driven weekly as a minimum. If they get put away in storage they get either e5 or e0. Both fuel injected and carbed.

Thanks Hubnut. My old Volvos have been running on E10 here in Germany for years with no issues. I like this new camera set up you're doing by the way 👌

@chilman6461

3 жыл бұрын

Hi wot volvo have you got I've got a 940 2.3 lpt just wondering

@Involvod

3 жыл бұрын

@@chilman6461 They are all 2.3 as well but n/a (B230F) According to gov.uk it's only the newer 1.8 in the V40/S40 that's not cleared for E10

@rich_edwards79

3 жыл бұрын

Volvo have confirmed that the 2.1 and 2.3 redblock engines in old RWD 240s and 740s are fine on E10, as they are on unleaded. Not sure about the fuel lines / system however, especially on carburettor models.

@chilman6461

3 жыл бұрын

@@rich_edwards79 thanks for that

Very sensible advice especially regarding owner responsibilty, not sure it's needed too much with your audience but definitely for the general driver nowadays

There is no doubt that running a historic/classsic vehicle of any kind is going to become more and more difficult, but luckily most marques are supported by thriving owners clubs where technical knowledge and experience is available to all and after market parts manufacturers who will find solutions to any issues that arise. Old motors will survive!!

The oldest car in my fleet is a 2005 MINI One. All rubbers degrade, some quicker than others. When leaded petrol was fazed out in 2000 my 1977 Mini 1000 (Now gone) had new fuel lines.

I wonder if greater quantities of ethanol will lead to an equivalent of diesel bug in petrol tanks? It thrives in the layer between any water and the fuel, basically eating the fuel.

Nice to Hear you talking sense mate well done I'm defanetly going to take the same view I have a 1947 lister stationary engine runs fine on e10 so far but tend not to leave any in tank defanetly not in carb run it until it stops so well said mate

As said, ethanol atracts moisture so the biggest problem for most classic cars will be the fuel tank which were mostly steel, and if left standing for long periods will start to rust around the upper level of the fuel, as that is where any water will be.

Ive fitted R9 fuel hose on my Landcrabs Ian, suppose to be E10 friendly ?

Spot on Ian,relax and check you lines and hoses regularly and replace at first sign of problem.most older classics are not driven far so shouldn't be a problem.daily drivers just need checking more frequently.🤗

Well said. One should check their fuel lines on an old car as a matter habit regardless of ethanol use. I use Stabil 360 in every tank in my Frogeye since we’ve had ethanol fuel here in Ohio for awhile now. I don’t put many miles on her so it’s not a financial issue using a stabilized/additive each tank.

Here, in the U.S., I have been running e10 in my Morris Minor ever since I recomissioned it in 2007. My observations: It rots the clear plastic floats in SU carbs (get the black ones), and the plastic jet tubes on hs carbs. I had my fuel tank epoxy coated in 2007, still perfect. I've had lots or older cars, mostly MoPar, Studebaker, or British, and the effects have been similar on all of them. I find about a 15-20% penalty in power and mileage to when I can fill with ethenol-free gas. I had one slant 6 Mopar that I think burned a valve due to it, but more likely the lack of lead, and I was running it pretty hard across the U.S., Idaho to Michigan in summer, so there's that.

"Lead-replacement petrol". I'd forgotten about that stuff! Unleaded was certainly around in the late 80s as I ran my Datsun Sunny on it. Certainly in 2014, ethanol-only fuel was very common around Rio de Janeiro.

I am absolutely in line with your statements about the unleaded fuel and the moderate use of classic cars motors! Here in Germany we have E10 in parallel to E5 since more than 10 years and there has been a huge discussion and rage about it in the classic car community... A lot of short term and long term testing was done with the result that the effect on classic car parts is far less than assumed... The only really bad fact is that the more ethanol the fuel contains the less long term stability it has... E10 will not work in your car after the winter break if you didnt put in special fuel stabilizer and fuel tanks will rott quite fast with E10 in it.. That is all! Price policy in Germany made E10 5 ct cheaper than E5 but E10 is about 8 to 10% less efficient (up to 1l more consumption per 100km)... Its so silly

We have had this in Australia for many years. It's fine as long as you don't let it sit in your car for a long time.

@Andys_Vauxhall_Vids

3 жыл бұрын

Will make me use my classics more then, so much for them encouraging us to "save the planet"!

On some vlogs from owner's in the USA they advise to drain the fuel tank if not running the car's for over 3 month's as the fuel goes off.

In Germany we have E5 Super Plus 98 to 100 Octane, depending on the brand of fuel E5 Super 95 E10 Super 95 I switched to E10 a year ago, when the prize gap between E5 and E10 Super reached 6 ct per liter. There was absolutely no effect detectable, not even the fuel consumption changed noticeable. My little fleet consists of: 92 VW Golf III, 1.8 l, 75 bhp, 4-speed automatic 97 MB C180 W202, 122 bhp, 5-speed manual 02 Ford Focus, 1.6 ZETEC SE, 100 bhp, 5-speed manual

As you say it’s going to be interesting. I currently only use Shell V Power together with an additive. I’ve two classic cars one of which the MGB is ok except when I do a long journey and can’t get Shell. I topped up with Texaco which promptly bought it to a halt. After some trials I found Texaco has to be avoided the only fuels which are ok are Shell, BP and Esso. I always use a Castrol additive in addition and this works well on both cars the other car being a 1275cc Midget. As to E10 I’ll continue as now using Shell as my number 1 choice followed by Esso and then finally BP but I’ll use the highest grade V Power or whatever the equivalent is in Esso and BP. I don’t do a big mileage the two cars together probably only do 4-5,000 miles but probably less. They are regularly serviced and checked and last year the two cars did under 1,000 miles I.e. under 500 miles each due to not going anywhere to compete on tours. So we’ll just have to wait and see. But thanks for the video as you say it’s our responsibility to check and maintain our cars and make sure they’re ok to use. I’d rather people use their cars less and then all this wouldn’t be necessary. I live 25 miles from London and never go there as I see nothing to go for but I can’t see any reason to use a car if I did go. The trains, buses and tubes are perfectly adequate!! Why anyone wants to drive in London is beyond me.

Hi from North Carolina. We have had fuel with alcohol 10% for years. I drive old cars, 70s and 80s mostly, some fuel injected but mostly carbureted. Just make sure your rubber fuel lines are good, I mean replaced with good quality. And don't leave it sitting for more than a couple months without taking the gas out. Only time I've ever had a problem with corrosion is when left sitting. I don't have any experience with gas preservatives. Always if you can use non-alcohol gas in lawn equipment especially two stroke. We have non-alcohol gas available a few places for boats and Recreation equipment.

I think the only problem with high ethanol is it goes off rapidly compared to low or no ethanol petrol, for storing petrol I use fuel stabilizer additive so far that has worked on the E5, I have got some that is three years old and it still seems good. I first started using stabilizer due to finding that if I drained the strimmer for over winter storage the diaphragm dried out and went hard but if fuel was left in the diaphragm was fine but the fuel had gone off by the time spring came around. Fuel stabilizer cured the problem. .

@alastairqueen7973

3 жыл бұрын

Ir's modern petrol onits own that has a short shelf life. The front-end components of petrol evaporate very quickly indeed ,with the fuel losing almost a fifth of its volume over a month. Ethanol has nowt to do with it.

On mine I had to change the fuel lines where needed, the petrol pump is already compliant and the Weber carb got a new plastic float to replace the brass float with the vulnerable soft soldered seams. Not a huge job.

Living in the Czech Republic, the only experience I have of E10 fuel is through a friend who used it in his 90s Volvo 850 - it was fine up to around a 50:50 mix, but if he filled up entirely on E10, he had some quite big running issues. So much so that he only filled up completely with E10 once. In Brazil, cars running largely on Ethanol, were modified to a fair degree. So, we can expect to have to make modifications to our youngtimer and old timer classics, and/or fill up 50:50 with super and standard unleaded. As for rubber components, well that might be easy with standard hoses, but what about specialised rubber parts in the fuel system as well as some metal and maybe plastic parts. Personally I think that with the use of 3D printers, car clubs and specialists, we'll find a way to keep older cars on the road and running OK.

Here in the US e10 has been around for a while. Get used to doing more carb rebuilds! But yes replace your fuel lines, run generators, lawn mowers etc. out of fuel when storing and use something like stabil or sea foam in the fuel for long term storage. As far as 2 stroke engines go I have not seen any issues about oil not mixing.

From what I’ve seen and heard in the states the problem starts when cars are left standing with this fuel in it it’s a tax as you have already stated the rubber brass and aluminium housing in carburettors I’m not sure if there is some sort of fuel stabiliser you can get for long-term storage but as a season mechanic who is now retired everything you said isIs sound advice and I will add if you’re going to park up your vehicle drain the tank down run some super unleaded through it and that fuel stabiliser and you should be good stay safe

Brought to Wartburgs over from Hungary to the US ten years ago. The rubber fuel lines rotted within a couple years, but there have been no other ill effects from American pump gas. I do not believe it has any effect on the oil mixing properly. And I suspect that since ten, fuel hose in Europe is being made to a better standard.

In Denmark we have fairly good and wide access to 100 octane E5. I usually use additive as I have non hardened seats in my B20A equipped Volvo Amazon. So far so good.

Very interesting video, not many people come on to the internet and admit that they just don't know the answer. It will be interesting to see how things work out over time. Some good news though, is that historic vehicles (those over 40 years old) are exempt from London's ULEZ restrictions. As a natural optimist I feel this must mean there is a clear policy decision to encourage the increased use of classic cars

I can remember Grahame Goode Racing in Leicester still having a working 4 star petrol pump on their forecourt in the late 90s / early 00s.

Here in Finland the 95E10 fuel came somewhere between 2008 - 2011 as I had a 2001 Nissan Micra during those years. Nissan released a compatibility chart for their vehicles and my Micra wasn't compatible with the 95E10, or they hadn't tested it, so just in case, started using 98E, which still had only 5% ethanol at most. Later cars have been compatible with 95E10. In the 1990's, I had a 1982 Mazda 323 1,3, which needed leaded fuel for valve seats and when the leaded fuel was replaced with unleaded fuel, some chains started using replacement additives, so just in case, started using those fuels and never had any problems. Found out also, that if my Mazda would've been just few months newer, there wouldn't been any problems using unleaded fuel, even without additives.

In Australia most people have found that the only adverse effects of E10 were a slight reduction in fuel economy, that was completely counteracted by how much cheaper E10 fuel is per Litre. From my experience having used E10 in a range of different vehicles from different eras, if the car runs on unleaded 91 fine, it shall run right as rain on E10 (94octane). Small engines like in line trimmers and mowers tend to not like E10 for reasons unknown to me. While I am here I should say that I am a big fan of your videos HubNut and I had a fairmont AU that was exactly the same as yours, just in white... Absolutely loved that old barge.

some areas in the USA are already moving to E15 at this time. A sound tactic to employ, is to NEVER store older Vehicles with fuel in the system. Simply running them dry removes a problem of the rapid deterioration of Ethanol fuels harming components when a vehicle is in storage.

Our first Skoda Favorit with the carburettor and no catalyst absolutely hated unleaded even though it was supposed to be adjusted for it. We just had to use leaded and it ran like a bird. Bio ethanol is a whole different ball game, and as you say it's an unknown right now.

For my early high compression Rover V8 engine, my regime is Esso Synergy supreme 99 Octane (5% or 0% ethanol depending on where you are in the UK) a FBHCC approved additive (Millers VSPe)) and new latest spec fuel injection standard hoses. Car seems quite happy with all that.

We've had to suffer E10 here in Maryland USA for quite a few years. Besides the rubber issues - It seems to not hold up well for longer-term storage. It separates, gets water in it and doesn't want to burn if it's been sitting for 6 months. Even using fuel treatments doesn't seem to positively help with long-term storage. With boat motors, we try to drain the carb before storing it, and if you're running the vehicle every few months it seems to be not as bad.

Toyota UK say all their EU territory cars MADE (not registered) anywhere from 1st Jan 98 onwards will be fine (with the exception of two Avensis engines in early 2000's), but all pre-98 cars are not suitable for E10.

@GlamStacheessnostalgialounge

3 жыл бұрын

Corporations always say that, there is no reason to have that arbitrary cut-off point, pre 98 Toyotas are going to be fine as well.

@legionnairegonk4425

3 жыл бұрын

@@GlamStacheessnostalgialounge I doubt Toyota is saying it for no reason, as otherwise the Avensis exceptions make no sense. The date may be generalised, but not beyond the possibility that technical reasons (component manufacturers?) exist for it. I believe Volvo state 98 date too. Here is a comment from an automotive engineer I found: "The problem with E10 is that it reacts with constituent elements of intake manifolds manufactured in a technique that was made obsolete in the mid 90s.". ... You do as you wish, but unless you know your car engine intimately I would not take an uneducated guess that all will be well on E10. Huge evidence from owners of older cars in countries where E10 already the standard indicates that major problems can and will arise for people.

@GlamStacheessnostalgialounge

3 жыл бұрын

@@legionnairegonk4425 And there are also people where E10 is used who say they have no problems with it for years! And I've also driven old cars for years on E10, never had any issue that I wouldn't have had with regular fuel.

I think I will probably fill up differently each time. I dont really want to use 97RON on a 75bhp camper but mixing a bit in every now and then would make a lovely mix making E7.5! that will be fine

You speak so much sense on emissions. Obviously the next car will be less polluting than the old one as has happened for years. We need cleaner air for sure but we shouldn't penalise cars already made and it certainly isn't green to be scrapping a car that is still working. My dad's 65mpg diesel Nissan Note was sold as so green when new 8 years ago it has something like £30 road tax but now he'd get an £8 fine for going into Birmingham. I think that would be ideal if we could all use the public transport option sometimes where possible.

If you're really worried, it is possible to remove 90% of the ethanol from the fuel, although you need an octane booster. If you are storing a vehicle for more than 6 months on E10, it's recommended to remove all fuel from the vehicle as, even with the stabiliser, the fuel tends to become the consistency of swarfega or even varnish if left long enough.

Hi Ian, my 31 A model Ford was in California since 1961 so it has been running on ethanol blended fuel since it was introduced in the late eighties. It does require a lead substitute in the fuel but I guess the answer to the great question is mechanically it doesn't appear to have affected it at all!. It still starts and runs fine after 30+ years .

My 1995 E34 is E10 compliant but my 1998 Cinquecento SX is not. I have just renewed the fuel line on my Cinq and will most likely use E10 still and see how it gets on. Luckily for me my local fuel station (shell) has premium which is an option. I would add the fuel hose I used was rated for e85!

Thank you for the info... It's seems after a few months its still an experiment. Are there any replacement hoses that won't persish? Edit.. I have an x300 xj6 and do very few miles in it. I would like to keep it mint.

Leaded fuel went out in the mid 90s, I think. I still remember it when I was very young.

@NOWThatsRichy

3 жыл бұрын

@Gareth Fairclough Then they brought in Lead replacement petrol for a few years.

@dcarbs2979

3 жыл бұрын

@@NOWThatsRichy That was around 2000 when I started driving (in a Capri). My local Sainsbury's were the only place that did it and even they phased it out in 2007. Been using V-Power ever since and she's been even more efficient (30+ mpg for 30 year old 2.8 V6)

In the 80s/90s in Brazil cars compatible with ethanol from factory have a trim call "Alcool", now cars like this are call "Flex" because they have a Flex Fuel sensor so they adapt the mixture with the ethanol content so they run fine with any % of ethanol. Mk3 Escorts run from factory with ethanol (Escort Alcool), they have another engine, EA827 from VW and not the CVH, but is old technology as well so solutions are available and countries adapt to changes.

The London ULEZ does NOT apply to classic cars, so I shall continue to drive my 1972 Daf 33 inside the North Circular Road from October!

@cornishhh

3 жыл бұрын

That would be quite a good car for London I'd think.

Good point, even some compatible cars, if they have had fuel components replaced with cheap non-compliant ones may no longer be safe. I had assumed that everything sold on the aftermarket since 2011 would be compatible, maybe that isn't a safe assumption.