Bernardo is one of the greatest minds of our time, excellent interview, thanks for the video.

I've been listening to Bernardo everywhere I can. This has brought me to many great channels on KZread like this one. Great conversation, thanks.

Great to see Christians engaging in modern intellectual conversations.

Gorgeous conversation. I am filled with hope for humanity and the world with these conversations. Let more and more see the divine.

This interviewer was brilliant and Bernardo’s responses were very nuanced and had great clarity. It’s just so simple and obvious… No one has ever observed “matter” outside and independent of mind, “for we are forever locked in mind. All we can observe are the contents of perception, which are inherently mental. Even the output of measurement instruments is only accessible to us insofar as it is mentally perceived.” (B.K.)

The Pleroma (the Psyche; The collective unconscious; container of opposites; pure potential) = The underlying field of subjectivity/Mind at large Abraxas (the intermediary process of potential turning into actuality; the transformation of the "unity of opposites" into actualized opposites) = The dissociative boundary Consciousness (the universe as perceived through the lens of conscious inner lives) = Meta-consciousness, a dissociated state, an image. This cosmology brings me such ease of mind. Even if the abstract associations don't fit perfectly, I will try to accommodate them in the future such that it makes sense. So far, this "gestalt" suits me just fine and bears no antinomy that comes to mind. Thank you Bernardo

How beautiful. How very beautiful. Bernardo thinks and speaks with such wondrous clarity. Alan Watts described us each as being like a whirlpool, recognisable patterns within something we are all a part of.

@buddyrichable1

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, he is very articulate, and in I believe his second language. Brilliant guy.

@lievenyperman9363

2 жыл бұрын

@@buddyrichable1 Yes, he is Portuguese / Dutch if I'm not mistaken so English might be his third language.

That book he describes working on at the end there is one I'm excited to read

@MoreChrist

2 жыл бұрын

You and I both, Luke. I hope we can tease out some of the themes in the next talk with Jonathan Pageau. It seems like this could be a fruitful conversation for this time.

BK is awesome, as always !

Kastrup gets more distilled as he keeps going, in ways that help listeners towards unexpected realizations of their own. In this case, I saw two instances which produced enough clarity enabling an understanding of how people with microscopes can think they’ve discovered viruses which may not actually exist (and I don’t believe they do). Hint: "convenient fictions" proceed throughout the discovery and rectification process... Another very good exchange on a fairly adventurous podcast.

@fineasfrog

2 жыл бұрын

I don't disagree. You have raised a very important point and question. The other side or aspect of "convenient fictions" is the 'kid' must know them to 'win' the game. I don't know enough about viruses (or the virus game). It may be that 'viruses' do not actually exist in the way we think. Our 'convenient fictions' around this may even be partly contributing to the problems in health that are observed. The process of the modeling or the way we know about this subject matter, in this case "viruses", may be so flawed that it is playing a part, even a major part, in our convenient fictions and they may be as a model invalid or somewhat invalid and in need of a model that better fits "the facts" that can be observed and verified in us as participant observes that are trained not just in what we call science but in the inner sciences that allow for a transformation of the knowing substance itself such that we are less and less subject to self-deception, delusion and self-fulling models that don't correspond to "what is the case". It takes one to know one. Still we have to consider the ignorance that the mind can fall under. For example (I have read and heard) that when the idea of 'invisible' bacteria was introduced, at first many, even most, doctors did not accept it and let things like washing hands before treating a wound not be a part of 'good practices' for treating wounds etc. Viruses are more subtle than bacteria and it is more likely the observed diseases may be subtly involved in "the way we think and frame/model reality and the reality of what is causing diseases". We need to continually question our models about what we think we know. I say all this to maybe further unveil the view points about the subject mater at hand which we are trying to understand. We need to consider what may be "all the view points" that can begin to suggest what is the 'the whole' of the subject we have under consideration. (For a good read on this check out John G. Bennett's The Dramatic Universe mainly volume 1 of the four volumes.) The mind of the human being is highly suggestable especially where fear and mainly unconscious fear is involved. The mind of the person does not want to face the difficulty of fear itself. As the dead president FDR said, "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." Even this can be misunderstood. One saying I keep at the forefront of my consciousness is: "Show me a statement that can't be misunderstood and I will devote my life to it." Of course there is no such statement; even the most valid of statements can be misunderstood. What can begin to free us from our own lack of wisdom? One question we might ask is: what will help us transform the mainly unconscious fear that resides in the mind/consciousness of mankind and to some extent in each particular person? Krishnamurti said that it is possible for the individual person to access a subtle energy that has it's own love, intelligence, compassion and courage that can transform the very knowing substance that gives us our manifest knowing of "this or that" as well as the possible knowing of what a self is in the first place etc......Consider this from Steps to Freedom by Reshad Feild: "Each of us is interpenetrated with all the thoughts and false judgements of each other, and the energy of love and intelligence, the light, and all the things apparently good and apparently bad. Like the waves of the sea these move through us on the breath. So can we learn to allow ourselves to be breathed by a subtle energy" such as that described by Krishnamurti and is also referred to as the breath of what is commonly called God?

@Progenitor1979

Жыл бұрын

I agree. It's no accident that the widely viewed picture of the 'corona virus' is , admittedly, an artists rendition of what such a virus might look like(spikes and all). It is undisputed that no photographic image of this 'virus' has ever been produced. My question is has any virus ever been photographed?

@alfredathelstan4375

Жыл бұрын

Perhaps Owen Barfield got there first

Great guest! Thank you for sharing…

Bernado sometimes uses the word metaphor and analogy interchangeably. Because terminology is really important at the level of analytical reasoning, I think it's important to make the distinction clear. They work differently because a metaphor is a figure of speech but an analogy is a logical argument. Writer’s Digest Senior Editor Robert E Brewer explained: “A metaphor is something, a simile is like something, and an analogy explains how one thing being like another helps explain them both.”

Really enjoy these discussions with Bernardo. I can't say I follow everything he lays out, but much of it just feels right as opposed to the materialist view. The free will argument loses me. But then every free will argument does. It's something that defies simple parameters - so that no two people are really talking about the same thing in practical terms.

Water is another good analogy. In the atmosphere there are both oxygen atoms and hydrogen atoms. When one oxygen atom combines with two hydrogen atoms, you have one molecule of water. By itself, the one water molecule is indistinguishable from the rest of the atmosphere. The water molecule has its own properties, and one of them is to be attracted to and combine with other water molecules. In sufficient quantity and at a low enough temperature, the molecules can be seen as a vapor or a cloud. That’s a lower order dimension of water. With an even lower temperature, the dimension of water condensates into a liquid. Lower the temperature even more and the next dimension of water is ice. So the lowest dimension of Mind is a body. Raise the frequency of Mind and it becomes the etheric body. And so on. As to mind reading, that too is possible if you adjust the resonance of your mind to match the resonance of another mind. Telepathy is a common practice among the Aboriginals of Australia. Remote viewing is practice of the mind that enables the “viewer” to “see” any place around the world. In effect, there are no limits to the abilities of Mind, including limitations of time.

Great interview I have to admit that my poor limited rational mind have a great difficulty understanding the scientific explanation of Bernardo however my intuitive mind love his final conclusions. Before knowing the works of Bernardo I was totally convinced that there should be something as “Rational Idealism” an idea to which I subscribe. God bless both of you

Amazing! Thanks so much... I just need to go and put my brain on ice for a while 🤕 ... Or my mind... What the hell is ice anyway...

@MoreChrist

2 жыл бұрын

Haha! You're welcome Pete. I'm glad you enjoyed it. I hope to bring Bernardo and Jonathan Pageau together in a few weeks. That should be a mind-bending conversation. :)

@petemaguire8677

2 жыл бұрын

@@MoreChrist Ha! Are you trying to kill me!! That will be incredible, keep up the amazing work. God bless you

@Autobotmatt428

2 жыл бұрын

@@MoreChrist That would be awesome! Get it done man.

Wonderful conversation. Thank you

love it that he has Douglas Adams on his shelf

Brilliant interview! I will listen to it many times. Thank you.

@thesecondlawandthetowerhou6026

2 жыл бұрын

This dovetails beautifully with Dr McGilchrist’s book, The Matter with Things.

@thesecondlawandthetowerhou6026

2 жыл бұрын

Your interview style is deeply respectful and elegant. The way you frame the questions is so fitting and hence the interview is rich in context and paced properly. It is quite an art.

@MoreChrist

2 жыл бұрын

@@thesecondlawandthetowerhou6026 thank you! That's a lovely comment to read. I hope I can continue to learn and grow as an interviewer. Over the years, I have learned from a lady Caroline who did a podcast called Acton Line, Bernardo's friend Jeffrey Mishlove, and a series of others. My friend, Matt, who has been on my channel has helped a lot too. Encouraging me to speak to people (say, viewers at home) in a manner that genuinely communicates to the other person/s involved rather than merely expressing something in me or something I am intrigued by. I should have known this as a teacher and maybe did to a point but he really brought it home for me. Plus, Bernardo has a special gift to do just that and made my job easy!

Enlightened ❤

2:10 - his book "More Than Allegory" 3:24 - Carl Jung and David Chalmers big influences on his work. 5:05 - Carl Jung, universal archetypes, collective unconscious 7:46 - his book "Decoding Jung's Metaphysics" 10:33 - his book "Why Materialism is Baloney" 13:45 - Fluid Compensation 18:49 - the difference between materialism and idealism 23:53 - The Hard Problem of Consciousness 28:43 - three metaphysical alternatives - Materialism, Panpsychism, Idealism 31:39 - The Whirlpool Metaphor 35:27 - Is "Mind" what others call "God"? 39:00 - brain vs mind - everything is actually mental and what we call matter is what certain mental processes look like. 42:19 - Metaphor of the Knot 48:16 - Metaphor of the Mutually Facing Mirror - how thoughts hurt us 59:11 - Analogical Thinking "More Than Allegory". 1:04 :53 - Convenient Fictions of science. 1:10 :50 - You need a convenient fiction to play the game. 1:14 :27 - do we have Free Will? 1:22 :06 - future book about what the Western tradition has lost Great talk. The "whirlpool" metaphor reminds me of Patanjali's Yoga Sutras, which basically says our individual mind is a whirlpool that must be calmed to experience the Universal Mind. A few times during this talk I thought of Viktor Frankl's book "Man's Search for Meaning". The Church Fathers were masters of allegory, metaphor, symbolism and typology, which makes the Bible come alive in a way literalism cannot duplicate. I understand why you got Pageau and Bernardo together, they are a natural fit and need to talk a lot more.

@MoreChrist

2 жыл бұрын

This is great, thank you Bob! I'm glad you enjoyed this talk and are keen to hear more from Jonathan and Bernardo. We're hoping to have a follow-up chat in July.

@ButterBobBriggs

2 жыл бұрын

@@MoreChrist I'm an Orthodox Christian, so while I enjoyed the video and Bernardo seems like a nice guy, I was not persuaded. He has traveled a good way down the road, but I pray he will eventually make it all the way to Damascus, like St Paul.

@MoreChrist

2 жыл бұрын

@@ButterBobBriggs this is my Hope as well.

@georgedoyle2487

2 жыл бұрын

“Victor Frankl” Well said!! The belief in the fundamental nature of (mind and consciousness/monotheism/objective morality) isn’t even an argument from ignorance it’s just a logical observation of the impossibility and absurdity of the contrary!! In contrast a strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism is nothing more than a culture of death and meaninglessness if you think about it rationally!! Atheism basically says birth is an accident, life is ultimately meaningless, ultimately purposeless and absurd and death simply ends the absurdity and illusion that birth began!! Their world view, their existential crisis and their epistemological crisis not the theists!! Furthermore, according to the Auschwitz survivor Viktor Frankl, who was a psychiatrist and a scientist (and a survivor of two Nazi death camps), according to Frankl materialists who prefer to value humanity as nothing more than biological and chemical robots. That is ultimately nothing more than a meaningless, purposeless (Bag of blind, mindless, accidental, meaningless Chemicals) and determined machines, (free will deniers) are a danger to our families and our children… According to Victor Frankl…. “If we present a man with a concept of man which is not true, we may well corrupt him. When we present man as an automaton of reflexes, as a mind-machine, as a bundle of instincts, as a pawn of drives and reactions, as a mere product of instinct, heredity, and environment, we feed the nihilism to which modern man is, in any case, prone. I became acquainted with the last stage of that corruption in my second concentration camp, Auschwitz. The gas chambers of Auschwitz were the ultimate consequence of the theory that man is nothing but the product of heredity and environment - or, as the Nazi like to say, of ‘Blood and Soil.’ I am absolutely convinced that the gas chambers of Auschwitz, Treblinka, and Maidanek were ultimately prepared not in some Ministry or other in Berlin, but rather at the desks and in the lecture halls of nihilistic scientists and philosophers.” (Victor Frankl). Frankl’s words are sobering and should give us pause as we consider what we are teaching the next generation in our own sacred halls of learning. Are we teaching students that they are the product of their environment, not responsible for their actions? Are we teaching them to view good and evil not as absolutes, but as variables dependent upon one’s cultural norms, one’s cultural tastes, subjective preferences, (Might is right)? If so, are we simply hurtling the next generation towards the Auschwitzes, Treblinkas, and Maidaneks of the 21st century? The fact is that… “What Hitler did not believe and what Stalin did not believe and what Mao did not believe and what the SS did not believe and what the Gestapo did not believe and what the NKVD did not believe and what the commissars, functionaries, swaggering executioners, Nazi doctors, Communist Party theoreticians, intellectuals, Brown Shirts, Black Shirts, gauleiters, and a thousand party hacks did not believe was that God was watching what they were doing. And as far as we can tell, very few of those carrying out the horrors of the twentieth century worried overmuch that God was watching what they were doing either. That is, after all, the meaning of a secular society.”

@Autobotmatt428

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for this

Another great interview! Thank you. I appreciate the books that pop up in the interviews. Many of them are new to me. Do you personally endorse the books as insightful, even 'scholarly' reading in the various genres? God bless.

@MoreChrist

Жыл бұрын

Thank you! Many of them, I do personally endorse from reading them in part or in full. A small percentage, I share just because the interviewee has mentioned them or I have done a cursory search and these are the more interesting-looking ones I can find on a topic. However, I don't like to do that as much as I think bad books can do real damage, as Plato suggests. God bless you!

Interesting

Bernardo should after writing this book on the western Mind should then write about the history of western Metaphysical idealism

@Sapientiaa

Жыл бұрын

That would take a while to write. It would be pretty long.

@Sapientiaa

Жыл бұрын

He’s already written a book on Schopenhauer, and Jung.

@Autobotmatt428

9 ай бұрын

@@Sapientiaa True

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

I though it is called "System 2" and "System 1" now..;) (just joking, the puddledeep "inventor" of those terms will not even be a footnote in history.) Man, am I glad I can listen to this! Thank you so much!!

That guy NEEDS to debate one of the so-called rationalists (utilitarian materialists); Eliezer Yudkowsky, Scott Alexander or at least Lex Fridman!! Christ has risen. Materialism is so over. Heavy, old stones of doubt are falling from my heart, never to return. With tears in my eyes I stand here listening to this, unable to do anything but praise the Lord. Hallelujah.

@lievenyperman9363

2 жыл бұрын

I would not classify Lex Fridman as a typical rationalist but I would love to see Bernardo on his podcast. I've suggested bringing him on in Lex's comments many times. I think Bernardo tried to debate Sam Harris but Sam didn't seem interested. Bernardo explained Harris' lack of interest as a lack of incentive because he has too much to lose and not enough to gain by debating Bernardo.

@johannakunze3300

2 жыл бұрын

@@lievenyperman9363 Sam Harris is a prime example of the principle, that you become, what you regularly consciously aspire to, that one turns into, what one occupies oneself with. In his case, nothingness. In that regard, he also reminds me of Wilbers warning about western people trying to transcend the ego before they have established one. Thank you for trying at Lex' channel!:)

As a first approximation could we say that God is the great all encompassing whole of all and everything both seen and unseen, both manifest and unmanifest, and what we see as an apparently separate human being is a like a holographic localized piece of the One Whole which is another way of saying that the human being is made in the image of The Whole or made in the image of God? Consider this quote from a small book "Addresses" by Bulent Rauf. "Can it be that what we call 'creation' or 'creature' is just another dimension of the "uncreated"? Can it be that the 'uncreated' looked at from another, a relative point of view, 'appears, only appears, to be 'created' due to relative vision." p 20 Addresses Benardo would refer to this relative vision as seeing from across a dissociated boundary. For a more complete view on the nature of will see "Deeper Man" by John G Bennett.

@steveflorida8699

2 жыл бұрын

The cosmos is made of matter a material substance. And the cosmos has a beginning therefore it was created. And the mortals on earth also have a beginning - created. There surely is a distinct deference between the Creator of the universe and the created.

@stussysinglet

2 жыл бұрын

@@steveflorida8699 there are numerous ways his idea can make sense.. theoretically some god consciousness could create a universe and then split its consciousness up into different forms in this universe over time. There’s no reason some thing we think of as god can not become matter or split it self up into different forms.

@georgedoyle2487

2 жыл бұрын

@@stussysinglet “Different forms” This is a very good point to be honest, and it highlights the big issues around a strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism and why it is incoherent and total gibberish as a theory of reality. Furthermore, I’m not making any appeals to authority but according to the expert linguist and brilliant cognitive scientist Noam Chomsky… “There are only two ways of looking at eliminative materialism (the idea that all things reduce to solid substance). One is that it is total gibberish until someone tells us what “matter” is. Until someone tells us what eliminative materialism is there can’t be such a thing as eliminative materialism and no one can tell us what matter is”. (Noam Chomsky). Equally, the fact is that there is more evidence that the Easter bunny and pink fluffy leprechauns exist than that a arbitrary cosmic accident, a cosmic toss of the coin, the meaningless accidental arrangement of the cosmic tea leaves at the bottom of the materialists, atheists or philosophical naturalists morning cup of tea created metaphysical realities and metaphysical presuppositions, that is is transcendental categories such as Truth, that is value, that is oughts, the prescriptive laws of logic, (conscious agents and free will, that is rationality), inductive reasoning, empiricism, universals, morals, ethics, art, poetry, literature, music, beauty, meaning, purpose, empathy, compassion and ultimately love!! The belief in the fundamental nature of [mind and consciousness/monotheism/rationality/objective morality] isn’t even an argument from ignorance it’s just a logical observation of the impossibility and absurdity of the contrary!! In contrast a strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism is nothing more than a culture of death and meaninglessness if you think about it rationally!! A strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism basically says that rationality itself, that is birth is an accident, life is ultimately meaningless, ultimately purposeless and absurd and death simply ends the absurdity and illusion that birth began!! Their world view, their existential crisis and their epistemological crisis not the theists!!

@georgedoyle2487

2 жыл бұрын

“Different forms” Furthermore, the fact is that even water comes in “different forms” and has multiple states of existence. Water is (One) but it can clearly have multiple forms and different states of existence such as Solid, Liquid and gas. Even a small child can grasp this simple concept. It’s beyond ironic and comedy gold that strictly reductive materialists, atheists or philosophical naturalists straw man the belief in the fundamental nature of [mind and consciousness/monotheism/rationality/objective morality] with facile and vacuous comments. Equally time is (One) but it can be warped by gravity and speed and it also clearly exists in multiple forms and different states of Past, Present and Future. Humans are (One) but they have identity over time and exist in multiple states of knowledge and epistemology through childhood, adulthood, and old age. This is not impossible to grasp and is rational to believe and yet it can not be proven, justified or grounded in a strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism that clearly excludes metaphysical realities!! The irony is that the realities that strictly reductive materialists, atheists or philosophical naturalists appeal to all the time such as identity over time, inductive reasoning, conscious agents and free will, that is rationality, the prescriptive laws of logic are metaphysical presuppositions and immaterial, invariant conceptual realities that can not be proven, justified or grounded in a strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism that clearly excludes metaphysical realities. They can not be proven, justified or grounded using a strictly reductive, causally closed, effectively complete system that clearly excludes immaterial, invariant conceptual realities. Materialism is baloney!! If you think about it rationally this strictly reductive, causally closed, effectively complete nihilistic, atheistic b…sht is self refuting!! According to the father of psychology Carl Yung there are three groups of archetypes, ego types, soul types and self types. Life is (One) but it exists in multiple states of birth, life/death and afterlife!! Ultimately the [conscious agent and free will, that is rationality is (One)] but it clearly exists in multiple states of being, that is subconscious, unconscious and phenomenal consciousness!! Furthermore, the fact is that truth itself exists in multiple states of being!! For example the mere mention of the afterlife to strictly reductive materialists, atheists or philosophical naturalists, will predictably result in a frenzy of mockery and scorn!! But the fact is that all truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. The irony is that strictly reductive materialists, atheists or philosophical naturalists who appeal to the “natural sciences” such as cosmology/physics vehemently object to the concept of a trinity, that is the [father, son and spirit] and claim that they can’t make sense of this religious metaphor and symbol of ultimate value and truth!! However, in the same breath they will accept that you can see the past, the present and the future at the same time as (One) reality provided you were headed towards the event horizon of a Black Hole of “nothing” and provided it’s dressed up with scientific metaphor and materialistic jargon that confirms their philosophical position, that is their (faith) position lol!! This speaks volumes and is beyond ironic!!

☯️🦋

I believe about 10 percent of us are original creative beings and the rest are following a script like background characters in a video game. This idea of npc people is growing in popularity and when I found out some of them have no internal monologue I was blown away. Also I believe the brain is more like a receiver rather than something that generates thoughts.

@Autobotmatt428

2 жыл бұрын

I agree

@daddycool228

2 жыл бұрын

Which are you?

@lukeharmon3454

2 жыл бұрын

Are you a fan of Sheridan, out of curiosity

@jarrilaurila

2 жыл бұрын

Just couple steps away from solipsism.

@heinzditer7286

Жыл бұрын

Jus Me that's what an NPC would say.

off topic: what area is the host from? ( I am asking because english is only second language to me and I wonder what accent this is)

@MoreChrist

Жыл бұрын

I'm from Ireland, Manuela. :)

@manuelaisabel2237

Жыл бұрын

@@MoreChrist oh thank you for letting me know, appreciate this :) on topic: could you bring Bernardo and Tom Campbell together for an indepth series?

@MoreChrist

Жыл бұрын

@@manuelaisabel2237 I must confess I'm not familiar with Tom Campbell but will look him up. Bernardo, myself, and Jonathan Pageau will be doing a conversation soon. We all enjoyed our first chat together so I look forward to that. :)