This is the conversation brought me back to God one year ago. I am thankful for all those who made this possible..

@MoreChrist

Ай бұрын

I'm delighted to hear that. Thank you for sharing. God bless you, on the way!

Bernardo's humility, honesty and palpable pain towards the end is matched by Jonathan's jovial understanding. We know how impossible it can be to find the right questions, the right words let alone finding satisfaction in formulating what we really want to express. This conversation definitely needs to be continued because it is full of a sense of partnership in exploration, reaching out in friendship. I do not know if Bernardo would read any of our comments but I would like to tell him, his pain over the banality, the mushy simplifications, the caricatured (or manicured) reality of the divine, of Christ, of the meaning of religion is something probably many of us share. I used to get angry, distant with fellow humans because of the suffering it caused me. These days (I am an old woman now!) it does not aggrieve me - my daimon ;o) ( whom I see as the Holy Spirit) keeps telling me not to be troubled by it, my task is to fix my gaze on the living Christ and that is all I am asked to do.

@MoreChrist

2 жыл бұрын

Amen. A beautiful comment, thank you!

@georgedoyle2487

2 жыл бұрын

Well said lovely comment!! My favourite are the strictly reductive materialists, atheists or philosophical naturalists who believe it’s their moral imperative to lecture believers who are in mourning during a pandemic that they will never ever see their loved ones again in order to play the I’m more (rational) and more “pragmatic” than you card!!. I don’t need secular myths and secular religion to know what right and wrong is!! I wouldn’t have the arrogance to gaslight or lecture a bereaved mother during a pandemic who’s only consolation is the hope of being reunited with her child in some kind of afterlife. The fact is that… “Jesus of Nazareth, without money and arms, conquered more millions than Alexander the Great, Caesar, Mohammed, and Napoleon; without science and learning, he shed more light on things human and divine than all philosophers and scholars combined;” (Philip Schaff: historian). The belief in the fundamental nature of [mind and consciousness/monotheism/rationality/objective morality] isn’t even an argument from ignorance it’s just a logical observation of the impossibility and absurdity of the contrary!! It’s just a properly basic belief!! In contrast a strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism is nothing more than a culture of death and meaninglessness if you think about it rationally!! A strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism basically says that birth is an accident, life is ultimately meaningless, ultimately purposeless and absurd and death simply ends the absurdity and illusion that birth began!! Their world view, their existential crisis and their epistemological crisis not the theists!! In contrast Jesus of Nazareth Was horrifically murdered because he… “Spoke such words of life as were never spoken before or since, and produced effects which lie beyond the reach of orator or poet; without writing a single line, he set more pens in motion, and furnished themes for more sermons, orations, discussions, learned volumes, works of art, and songs of praise than the whole army of great men of ancient and modern times.” (Philip Schaff: historian).

@vecumex9466

Жыл бұрын

Amen!

@Andy_Mark

5 ай бұрын

👏👏👏 Sometimes emojis capture one's feelings better than words. 😂

Jonathan, you magnificent bastard, you did what I havent seen anybody else doing: You took Bernardo Kastrup, and all that intelectual power he has, and all that abstract reasoning and cold formal logic that he has to impose on himself for his public life, and you yanked it down back to normal human level. And it was sooo sooooooooo beautiful. Thanks, thanks for humanizing Analytical Idealism, and for stripping it of that rarefied atmosphere of typical intellectualism asepsis. Thanks forever.

109:00 “The eye through which I see God is the same eye through which God sees me; my eye and God's eye are one eye, one seeing, one knowing, one love.” Meister Eckhart

I feel blessed to be able to witness these two men talk. Thank you for making this possible !

Don't even need to see it to be able to say...Great talk

@MoreChrist

2 жыл бұрын

Hahaha...it's funny cause it's true.

Bernardo comes off as such a pleasant person. It deeply sadened me to see such a kind and pleasant soul choosing the cross without the Resurrection! Listening to people like him only makes me realize that only God incarnate could have saved us, no human mind is capable of conjuring up anything close to the Gospels.

@MT-ho8zq

2 жыл бұрын

@@monkkeygawd I did not understand him like that, but it is the first time I listen to him, so you probably know better his work and thinking. However, cand you kill a child, even accidentally, and just smile and be, without redemption? I don't thinj any human can do that, accept for the psychopaths maybe.The human mind and heart knows evil by instinct, and is profoundly repelled by it. Like it or not, we are born this way. God is Love and Goodness. Evil in itself does not exist. Evil is an act that denies Love and Goodness, is negation. We are created in His image and any act of evil is an negation of what we are as well and that is why it destroys us. That is why we need redemption, as in Healing, and ee long for it after every trespass, and only God Incarnate, Love and Goodness incarnated, can do that for us. To me at least, eatching the video, it seemed like Bernardo is deeply longing for this healing. All I wanted to do was to give him a hug and let know there is redemption, serious redemption, redemption that when we allow it to work in us, it can hurt to the point of dispair sometimes, but nevertheless reveals itself in Love in the end.

@elektrotehnik94

2 жыл бұрын

I believe both of those levels of understanding are very true, but they encompass different levels of interaction with the World & different levels of heeding our own understanding of our Ego as fundamental. In my intuition, knowing both helps me give up more of myself in varied situations, where I still struggle to give aspects of myself up ❤️

@umeahalla

2 жыл бұрын

@@monkkeygawd Being in zen buddhism for 7 years, and now converted to Orthodox Christianity, the "dharmic" paths does not seem to lead to the same as the Christian, in my experience the buddhist and similar paths seems to lead to darkness and away from God.

So many people think the original fissure in the church was between Catholics and Orthodox, but that was after the split between Gnostics and Orthodox. This conversation is what a unified church looks like. Waaaaayyy better then preaching, these two just participated in moving the ball forward. A massive thank you to the host who let the conversation unfold organically.

Wow... we're going places...

@MoreChrist

2 жыл бұрын

It's gonna be a fun ride!

It's wonderful to be able to 'partake' in these honest and profound conversations. Bernardo's struggle to define the issue (let alone resolve it) resonates with me fully. And same goes for his reasoning for setting the beacons as a service. I used to do that kind of process (without naming it), but was distracted to the point of forgetting it and want to thank him for the reminder to revive it. ❤

Bro, first time really spending time on your channel, and the books you flash up are insane. That’s incredibly useful. I’m definitely bookmarking this, and thanks for doing that

I enjoyed every second of this conversation and can't wait for the second part! 💟

What a beautiful dialogue! Unbeknownst to them, both Bernardo and Jonathan have helped me a great deal during difficult stages of my life, and it's a real delight and a blessing to hear them in conversation! Thank you Marcas for putting this together! Can't wait for Part 2!

This is an excellent discussion about identity and how hierarchy saves identity from dissolution.

Can't wait for part 2!!

@MoreChrist

2 жыл бұрын

Me neither, Richard. Thanks for your contribution in the chat.

@Autobotmatt428

2 жыл бұрын

@@MoreChrist God bless you bro. If you could get Bernardo and David Bently Hart together now that would be even more mind blowing.

@MoreChrist

2 жыл бұрын

@@Autobotmatt428 thank you! To be a hipster for a sec, I liked David's early stuff. Haha God bless you, as well!

@areconstructionstory4770

2 жыл бұрын

I left a message on Bernardo’s Facebook saying he needs to engage with DBH. I think a lot of people would love to see this.

@Autobotmatt428

2 жыл бұрын

@@MoreChrist I Just think they would have a great discussion about the philosophy of Mind.

Thank you for the end part of this podcast. It was so profound and meaningful. Thank you Mr. Kastrup 🙏✝

One of best exchanges you'll find on The TUBE!!!

Mikhaila said, that Jordan counts Jonathan among the very select few smartest people he has ever met. Yes.

I woke up thinking about this conversation this morning. I've been drawn to Kastrup (have read 3 of his books and watched many many of his videos) for a long time and he often seems misunderstood, to my way of thinking, by the people with whom he talks. But Pageau is a partner in thought and experience worthy of him. They both elucidate the other's thoughts in useful resonant language. I've had problems understanding them both at times, but this video was so powerful for me, because when they talk together, something higher clearer is reached. Would love to see Part 2. This was just so outstanding. Thank you!!!

The discussion on angels pre/post existence is hung up in this conversation by an assumption of time as transcendent. But time as such is a particular dimension of reality that is embedded in the whole. If something ever manifests, it exists eternally. The difference between now, past and future is relative to human as subject, which is ultimately subsumed into the unity.

@thesecondlawandthetowerhou6026

2 жыл бұрын

Carlo Rovelli.

Thx for this conversation.

This was an amazing talk, thank you both. Johnathan’s description of Church as a potentially messy and awkward stumbling towards something higher is spot on. It’s something I was kind of stuck on, internally complaining about this or that…it’s all a distraction to get your mind off of God. Literally life changing for me when he said that. I’m excited for mass tomorrow now haha. Again thank you both.

Amazing discussion 🙂

Simply invaluable increments in clarity. Earlier half-grasped ideas looking up, looking back at the one that is looking, reaching out, releasing so much light. Also: Bernardo's voice caries the same sadness Jordan Peterson's does. I dare to say I even notice similar intonation. What do they miss?

The hero's journey is a helix. Looking at the end it is a circle (ouroboros). Looked at from the side it is a waveform. Understanding the leveling up is critical. Great conversation.

Absolutely beautiful description of humanity and being born again, from my perspective, by Bernardo in speaking of placing the beacons

My man. This was the best convo Jonathan has been in since his chat on angels with JV. Maybe top 3 JP videos ever. And great interview style Mark. Slow down your chat a bit. You've got a great thick norn iron accent and these poor blokes will struggle if ya rattle on like a massy Ferguson. Haha. Love you brother.

@ButterBobBriggs

2 жыл бұрын

I agree, slow down a bit, my old American ears get lost in your accent. BTW, love your beautiful accent, so not trying to be critical, I would just like to follow what you're saying.

This is amazing work! Please keep these talks coming!

Great conversation guys! Thank you!

Thanks to all for this wonderful discussion! Spoke to so much of where I'm at in my own spiritual ruminations... Christ as an ideal for the progression of human kind... perhaps a loving omega, attractor daemon... calling to us from the 'heavenly' hierarchy.

Boundaries of ontology must transcend time.

What a wonderful, wonderful video! This kind of content is the reason I even look at KZread. Would it be possible to get Bernardo or Jonathan in a conversation with David Bentley Hart? That would be extremely interesting!

@gavtalk958

2 жыл бұрын

What a thought! We'd need a dictionary and an encyclopedia of philosophy, but damn it would be amazing!

@ludvigsvensson1904

2 жыл бұрын

@@gavtalk958 We absolutely would! Let's hope it happens :)

Can't wait for part 2!

awesome conversation, and nice to see 4000 views Mark. God bless

@MoreChrist

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you, Michael. We're moving up in the world. Haha God bless, brother!

Really enjoyed this, thank you. Can't wait for episode 2! 😁🙏

This is the best video on the internet.

You have done a very good thing here. Someone ought to get Bernardo into conversation with Wolfgang Smith as well (perhaps you and Karen Wong from The Meaning Code can make that happen if you combine your efforts).

@cosmicfrog612

2 жыл бұрын

Yes! Would love to hear a dialogue between Smith and Pageau as well.

@ddod7236

2 жыл бұрын

Absolutely agree. I have been drawn to Kastrup's videos and books for awhile now. This is the best video I've ever seen of his--Jonathan is a conversation partner worthy of Kastrup. He often seems misunderstood by those with whom he talks. His views also echo Rubert Sheldrakes for me? I would LOVE to see a conversation between Kastrup, Wolfgang Smith and Karen Wong.

@DM100

Жыл бұрын

Or JP. I know that day will come and I it will be great. JP is closer in thought to Bernardo than Jonathan. That’s for sure. Although, all three are very close to saying the same thing. But Bernardo is truly Adding something new to the conversation. He’s deep! Maybe too deep for most! He is speaking to our time…the transhuman movement is utterly terrifying

That intro sing gives me the shivers

Awesome discussion!

Thanks Mark for all the suggestions you brought up! Books and movies! I'll be watching a Hidden Life!

At one point Bernardo (I think) refers to an “angel of humanity”. Walter Benjamin, the Jewish German mystic/philosopher wrote a treatise on a painting by Paul Klee called “Angelus Novus” in which he makes some fascinating observations/comments about the relationship between the angel and human history. Also check out Laurie Anderson’s “Strange Angels”. The song called “The Dream Before” refers back to WB’s idea.

I'm new here, but I really appreciate the way you all approach this delicate topic. Thank you

Excellent. 🙌

Outstanding podcast

Just to add an important point, not all Catholics are Roman Catholics. Byzantine / Eastern Catholics have the same liturgy, iconography and traditions as Orthodox because they have either never entered into schism or came back into unity. Thus it's best to make that clear from the start or people might evaluate (positively or negatively) Catholicism based only on Roman Catholic tradition.

Very interesting, thank you! As a Catholic living in France I would not be as pessimistic as Bermardo regarding the romantic aspect of the Church. There are lot of initiatives to help people living in the street or encountering various difficulties in life. I also never had the impression that the liturgy was hiding the suffering of Christ during crucifixion. So I think (at least this is my impression) that most people go to Church frequently are aware that being Christian is not easy and romantic (especially in Western Europe)... Same thing for the cartoonification, I have never really witnessed that personally, so I am not sure what he is referring to exactly. There are surely some people who just want a moral recipe out of the Church, but I would not say they constitue the majority of people (especially in Western Europe in 2022).

@juanmanuelgonzalez9341

2 жыл бұрын

I think he is pessimistic about a coming back to religion and he feels sad about it

I would like to see a reading list on further videos! I did like the supporting content gently appearing on the screen (though it made me lose track at times, and I had to rewind).

Thinking about the "daimon" a bit more, it occurred to me after reading Jean Danielou's book on angels, that the traditional and orthodox teaching on angels is that every newborn baby receives a heavenly guardian from the Father, but that this angel serves the person a bit differently depending on his or her spiritual condition. Before baptism/conversion, a guardian angel will "pull" a person toward Christ and "push" him or her away from evils. In this a guardian angel is similar to an angel of the nations which oversees and chastises a particular nation. After baptism/conversion, a guardian angel maintains this purificatory role, but also becomes more of a "shepherd" and "herdsman" (as St Basil said), gently guiding us to greater goods and protecting us from ravenous wolves.

morphic resonance Rupert Sheldrake

One slight criticism of Bernardo‘s points on Catholicism comes from his understandable misunderstanding of the fact that open till the 1960s or 70s, the Latin right was the predominant ritual of the Catholic Church. In the Latin for instance also has the priest facing the altar as he mentioned is the practice in othodoxy

Followed John's lead here to (More Christ) watch the original. Subbed.

I would love clips of this to share. Also, love the books that pop up, my list is getting long!

@MoreChrist

2 жыл бұрын

I am thinking about starting a clips channel in a month or two, so hopefully that will be worthwhile for people. Also, I think Jonathan might put this on his channel and clips channel, so you can keep an eye out there too. :)

@makaminsk

2 жыл бұрын

@@MoreChrist I finally got to the very end, please include his reaction to A Hidden Life in the next conversation! That movie is absolutely brilliant.

@MoreChrist

2 жыл бұрын

@@makaminsk I shall do, Amanda! :)

57:00 Does the "angel" of China exist before China? McGilchrist use to say. "Relation exists before that which is being related". I.e. it's a pattern/archetype/quality of existence itself. And China is a particular instantiation of a pattern within space-time. But the pattern is not good or bad in itself, it is just an organizing principle whose instantiation can go both right and wrong. C.G. Jung said: " ......God can be called good only inasmuch as He is able to manifest His goodness in individuals." Or in the words of B. Kastrup: Let us be the beacons that directs the "angel of humanity" in the good direction, The preexisting archetypes /patterns is what thermodynamically push-pull organisms uphill towards higher degrees of order and consciousness rather than disintegrating into a cosmic soup.

great

❤❤

One of the things Rudolf Steiner (if you haven't read him you should -- much of all of what people are saying now, Steiner said over 100 years ago) has against eastern religions is that they miss the physical and go straight to the spiritual and according to him this is a mistake. The human consciousness needs to continue to evolve and that evolution is related to understanding the meaning of the physical world. Christianity goes beyond the Golden Rule --- it is not just do onto others, but to LOVE your fellow man and to forgive.

We need Kastrup to talk D B Hart.

Yes, what Jonathan calls little loves, Dante calls desires, repeated over and over again in the Commedia, that which draws our attention. It is longing, which is relationship at fractal levels, towards whatever attracts the eye. As Dr Peterson explained so clearly to Richard Dawkins, it is memory which contextualizes visual input. Memory from experience through the senses creates the structure for vision. Seeing the invisible becomes embedded step by step. As Dr Rookmaaker stated so brilliantly “We see what we know.” Christ created goodness constantly by healing the wounded bodies and the wholeness moved up the fractal ladder. Check out Caravaggio’s Seven Acts of Mercy.

@MoreChrist

2 жыл бұрын

Great comment! Thank you for sharing. I want to speak a bit about that in the next conversation. :)

@thesecondlawandthetowerhou6026

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you. The etymology of the word desire is related to the Latin ‘sidere’ meaning stars.

gracias

As a poet I say; the American way of life highlights in importance and repetition some things over other things...commercials, one can tell by their ubiquity and repetition, are extremely important to US. social planning affinity groups. They feel we must be psychically awash in them. It seems clear that there may be more afoot than mere encouragement of buying and selling.

One interesting thing I notice about how Bernardo describes his daemon’s seeming moral neutrality. He comes to that conclusion because he feels that his daemon is unconcerned with Bernardo’s comfort or security, but why does he conclude that that is morally ambiguous? In other words, if we saw the daemon as a divine guide, we could ask if St Paul’s daemon was leading him toward comfort and security or toward Paul’s greater purpose in the cosmos, which of course is why Paul is a saint. The idea that our comfort and security is always in our best interest and that getting outside our comfort zone to a possibly higher calling is morally ambiguous seems a strange conclusion to me. To liken his daemon to an indifferent volcano doesn’t seem to match the idea that his daemon is pushing him to write and further share his wisdom. That doesn’t sound indifferent or morally ambiguous to me!

@MoreChrist

Жыл бұрын

Well said! As creatures with only a certain amount of time, his daemon/guardian angel leading him to spend it on nobler efforts seems far from neutral to me too.

@robertwarner-ev7wp

6 күн бұрын

He also believes that universal consciousness is only phenomenally conscience( like an instinct?) whereas humans are meta-conscience (ability to reflect on our thoughts). So universal consciousness is using us to discover itself. I disagree. Universal consciousness is a pretty impressive creator for something that in Bernardos Jungian view point is no more aware of its self than my cat.

Not all religious language is symbolic. I tend to agree with St Thomas Aquinas that God-talk is primarily analogical, unless it’s a negation in which case it’s literal. ‘God is merciful’ is analogical, whereas ‘God is not a being’ is literal. And then there is symbolic language

Can you send me to the version of that intro song...its bevome one of my fav intros in all of YT

@MoreChrist

2 ай бұрын

Nyazura Mission Church Choir: Praise Him. (I Am Going There)

The Catholic priest doesn't turn his back to the altar during Mass. Even in the new order of the Mass where versus populum is the norm, the priest faces the congregation from the other side of the altar, still facing toward the altar.

Would love to see you and Bernardo in discussion with Jordan Peterson. Maybe you can get them together in a future podcast.

@MoreChrist

Жыл бұрын

That'd be amazing!

The Angel of China was always sitting next to one of Schrodinger's Cats. They've been chillen for eons.

What a brilliant discussion! Some interesting ideas arise for me from the discussion of angels etc. he creations of “Divine Mind” (Bernardo) or “God” (Jonathan), include humans and other beings of different natures (like plants, animals, and so-called non-physical or “divine” entities (such as angels, demons, devas, elves, ghosts etc which we find in all traditions.) Humans being “created in gods image” recognises that we share to a finite (limited) degree the same creative capacity to give rise to non-physical entities (such as “the angel of China”, or other egregores like school spirit, Plato’s “Laws of Athens” the tooth fairy or Santa. They can have causative effects on us but, but are rooted in OUR finite space/time collective unconscious and don’t have their minds, their consciousness (as opposed to us, who are rooted in DivineMind-God’s infinite eternal frame). They don’t have self awareness as they are projections of minds not DivineMind-God, and they ARE finitely bound in time and space. As such the “angel of china” isn’t eternal, but will cease to be when no longer projected by human minds (same as Thor, Apollo, etc).

@grahamcox1797

2 жыл бұрын

We on the other have arise in DivineMind-God which is infinite & eternal, as are angels and demons etc (not that we can necessarily tell the difference when we encounter them in consciousness). Our creations are fundamentally different being projects of OUR minds, and so don’t have self awareness whereas creations of DivineMind-God do have INTENTION and self consciousness. It is “like something to be” an angel (or a human or cat or crab). Not only can the effect our lives, but they KNOW they can, and like us, they are direct offspring of DivineMind-God, and can realise this as their self awareness deepens (with the limits of their capacity), and they become ever greater conduits of god’s love, which is their (and our) purpose.

Jonathan arrived at a good point at the end, in positing our place between celebration and penance, perfectly symbolized in the cross - the vertical orientation towards the transcendent while bearing the burden of existence. My sense is that at this time, Bernardo is perhaps too much aligned with a sense of duty towards his daimon, which in his case strongly shows up as a service-orientation. Celebration or devotion is therefore something he may need to cultivate for balance - in which case even ritual acquires more meaning - after which any views of renounced sentimentality vis-a-vis religion can become another return to a more integrated position, viewing even “sentimentality” as a possible way in which others are merely working with their own level of intelligence, and even in their own daimonic orientation as such. In other words: not either/or, but both/and.

@PetrusSolus

2 жыл бұрын

As for “Angels of Humanity,” Rudolf Steiner posited what he termed “Folk Spirits” as those which guide and oversee nations or large groups of people (with respect to the discussion about the Chinese people). He also said that humans are the 10th hierarchy, as products of the 9 levels above us incorporating their various aspects as they work with us circumstantially. Hence, it’s not difficult to view the possibility of one’s personal daimon answering to its own daimon, and so on up the chain. Lorna Byrne, who has seen these beings since childhood, has said that prayers given to our own personal angels are carried by many beings in a kind of sweeping movement through the levels as they ascend up and out of sight - both a symbolic and an empirical witness on her part. Alas, not all of us are clairvoyant…

@ddod7236

2 жыл бұрын

This is very wise. You have deepened my understanding of the Cross. Thank you.

Would love to see that last bit at the end be addressed more. It seems like Jonathan can’t really relate because he’s found the proper balance like he said, but for those of us who are in Bernardo’s position, it would be helpful to talk about it a bit more

@MoreChrist

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing. Can you tell me a bit more about what you'd like to see fleshed out, please? That way, I can try and incorporate your concerns into my questions for the next discussion.

@b0bsProductions

2 жыл бұрын

@@MoreChrist Jonathan does a great job of getting us into church. But even in church, there’s the next problem that I think Bernardo is describing, in which the Truth that we are seeking is made inaccessible in the lofty romantic language. In my experience, I came back to the Roman church after watching Jonathan for a while, and I have an intuitive understanding of what I’m after, but sometimes it’s REALLY hard to find that in church. The language and the particular style of preaching is just not it. It’s actually a lot easier for me to find it in Jonathan’s and Bernardo’s and Vervaeke’s conversations, and then try to somehow translate those insights into the church’s “language” so I can participate in it, if that makes sense. I guess I would want Jonathan to maybe give some advice on how to follow through after “going to church”. Because some of us can get easily discouraged or lost when we go from Jonathan’s or Bernardo’s work (which speaks to us in a real way) directly to the church (which uses language that is totally unrelatable. And I’m not talking about Scripture, I mean the way that priests and “mainstream” faithful speak.) Hope that was clear. Maybe it’s just a Catholic/protestant problem haha.

@MoreChrist

2 жыл бұрын

@@b0bsProductions I get ye! Thank you for sharing. I've struggled with that as well, even in the Orthodox church. I think the Catholic Bishop Barron is a rare exception to what you describe. His sermons are so well pitched. They challenge, they convict, they convince. Beautiful rhetoric and substance. It's a pity every diocese doesn't have a Bishop Barron. Haha

@bradspitt3896

2 жыл бұрын

@@b0bsProductions Have you dug into the anthropology/theology of the church? That is helping me understand the importance of rituals, not just everyday rituals but liturgy.

@nuzzi6620

2 жыл бұрын

@@b0bsProductions I don’t know, I understand the issue but I’ve never experienced or heard of someone else experiencing this issue in Orthodoxy. I mean, there’s a reason why Orthodoxy has _always_ reached out to people in their own tongue, in the vernacular (unlike the Roman church until the 60’s). I actually find the hymns and services of the Orthodox Church to be rather simplistic in its language-discussing grand, beautiful, cosmic ideas and realities, of course, but nearly always in a way that is immediately accessible to most people with a firm grasp of whatever language is the local vernacular, and employing poetic devices that are relatively basic and non-cryptic (juxtaposition or contrast seems to be the most common-for example: _Today, He who hung the earth upon the waters is hung upon the Cross // He who is King of the angels is arrayed in a crown of thorns_ …from the service of Holy Friday). But I digress. Just check out your local Orthodox parish if you can! That’s really the only and best way, to _come and see_ for yourself. God bless you!

Our culture is terrified of death. For me there is NO PAYOFF for banality!

This intro slaps

@crakhaed

2 жыл бұрын

Would love to find the version of this you use. It's epic

@MoreChrist

2 жыл бұрын

@@crakhaed It's by Nyazura Mission Church Choir- Praise Him. (I am going there)

@crakhaed

2 жыл бұрын

@@MoreChrist Thank you! 😃

I think Campbells view of the cross as a symbol which represents the tree of life is apposite. Christ is saying follow me through the gates of Eden ( the cherub with the burning sword is only an illusion) and onto the tree of immortality.

I want to see Jonathan push Bernardo more on Orthodoxy. They obviously agree on most things, so what's stopping Bernardo from becoming Orthodox? Philosophers need church too.

What is the song at the beginning??

@MoreChrist

2 жыл бұрын

It's by Nyazura Mission Church Choir- Praise Him. (I am going there)

@trentonshuff6639

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you

Good stuff I love this channel and the moderator. Btw do you think you could bring Dr Koons together with Bernardo? I’m super curious about Bernardo’s position on hylomorphism (I know he rejects but both of them reject materialism taking as main natural evidence the quantum physics)

@MoreChrist

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you, brother. Dr Koons could be a fun one. There are so many people I would love to match Bernardo with. Haha Where has he spoken about hylomorphism? That'd be quite interesting to see. God bless!

@juanmanuelgonzalez9341

2 жыл бұрын

@@MoreChrist haha why he generates that effect in people? 😂 Actually only Dr Koons has done so, he is very aristotelic neo-platonistic. I wonder if Koons could match any piece of Bernardo’s theory with his own and rocket power some of his arguments. On the other hand, I wonder about Bernardo’s reaction to Rob’s approach to good. Normally he tends to classify the middle ages theories as presuppositionalist. Bro are you part of any online community that I can subscribe?

@MoreChrist

2 жыл бұрын

@@juanmanuelgonzalez9341 thank you for that! I must check out more from Koons. I'm glad you brought that up. I would like to have more of a community around this channel and see that Paul Vander Klay and co have communities around them. I don't really know where to start, however. Do you have any ideas? In Christ, Marcás

@juanmanuelgonzalez9341

2 жыл бұрын

@@MoreChrist well it comes out that I do digital marketing... so maybe I can give you a hand! If you want, I think it would be best if we could first get in contact and have a chat. Maybe after that I can get some ideas. Whatcha think?

@juanmanuelgonzalez9341

2 жыл бұрын

@@MoreChrist I’d do it for fun and for the sake of the channel, of course. No charge lol

Such nice men.

Christ returns as the Bride

1:05 lol uhoh, Kastrup said Jonathan’s buzzword “arbitrary”

I can no longer exist in Canada. I can’t read and I can barely see. I go to small places in Italy and my body comes alive literally. It is a resurrection. For people high in trait openness, the North American world sans tradition and culture is deadly. This spiral notion is a huge problem. It is part of the Romanticism Bernardo describes. It is the spirituality problem. Christ mingles in the bog of life and his presence (Right Hemisphere) heals and people see. The Irish buried their gold treasures in hoards in the bogs. Christ is not virtual reality.(Left Hemisphere). Nothing abstract. There is no need to ascend. The deeper you go into reality, the more you know and the more you see and the invisible in the physical world becomes visible. It is all in the creation, man. We don’t need to go anywhere. Dr Hans Rookmaaker nails this understanding in his lecture ‘What is Reality?’

What does Elohim means?

@Tuskoid88

10 ай бұрын

It has many meanings

how could you get them wow, good fucking job

things like analytic philosophy and science need to keep their boarders so that they can be what they are but there should be room for other attempts of understanding and then maybe eventually some can create a better understanding of reality into a unified body with many organs. we all have a part to play and not everything is for everyone. my act of worship is to be what I am. what we can become and what we can attain to is part of the appeal of being so ignorant and limited. studying NDE and listening to people like rudolf steiner and emanuel swedenborg begins to hint at reality being richer than just the physical appearance of the universe. an unlimited omnimax reality would be hard to fully categorize. some minds might be combinatorial such as the "china angel" but it might be an "ecosystem" of some sort. now then we have what forms the being from many but that singular thing is also in some way part of the many parts identity as well. the many is in the one formation but the total formation is also in the many. other aspects of reality are required in order for nothing to be lost. if nothing is lost the total information can further be arranged in different ways. I think there might be a lot of copy and pasting or donation going on with reality, borrowed information or experience can be reutilized in a new format. there might be a pattern or designation in reality of the one who sits on the throne, the throne and the footstool. different angels could rule at different periods of time and those angels might be a combination of various groups of beings working together to form some kind of body with many organs. my highest identity is not my body, that is more like my clothing and current medium. my highest identity is probably some eternal soul that accumulates experiences so that I have both an eternal aspect and a part that is "born". the eternal aspect is probably something simple like a divine number, idea, affection or a color which is the container and starting point to build upon. adding more and more accumulations of experiences for the simple void-capacity or monad reveals this aspect of the divine soul more and more.

pr໐๓໐Ş๓

“The conscious self doesn’t exist. We are our unconscious.” What does Bernardo mean by dissociative, the unconscious?

@MoreChrist

2 жыл бұрын

Hmm it's hard for me to distil. I don't know if I can do him justice here, but I think he means an individual in and of itself. It belongs to a community and obfuscated-mind. (On the conscious self not existing). I see that as noting we are hermeneutic creatures. (As Dr Jens Zimmermann describes) Bernardo spoke about it at length in his talks with Jeffrey Mishlove, I think. Dissociation seems to that aforementioned 'obfuscation'. I think, in the Christian context, being how we became somewhat alienated from the true and living God. As creatures created by God's kenosis. What he calls unconscious, seems to be more than rather than less than our cruder notion of conscious. Which I think is backed up by Dr Iain McGilchrist's work, and in alignment with what you wrote above. Both The Master and the Emissary and his new book. Check out his two interviews on Reading Our Times.

@adamgoldwasser

2 жыл бұрын

“beautiful, loving, fear-free, accepting”… if it’s truly a “non-dual” way of “viewing”reality, than these attributes you describe are meaningless. And there isn’t anyone to “view” anything either. God bless🙏🏼

@adamgoldwasser

2 жыл бұрын

“But this world cannot hold the Truth in its fullness, any more that it could tolerate the presence in it of the God-man; for man is called to deification, and this can only happen in the ‘other world’- which, though it constantly impinges on this world, never does so more than partially, giving us warnings and indications of what is to come. This world must end, man as we know him must die, must be crucified before that ‘other’ world can come into being.” -Fr. Seraphim Rose

@lucasheijdeman2581

2 жыл бұрын

The unconscious as i understand Bernardo are the obfuscated parts of mind that are not rerepresented in meta consciousness. So even the dissociative parts of mind (the whirlpool) can fall under the so called unconscious. Animals are dissociated parts of mind at large but they do overall not pocess the capacity of meta cognition

@juanmanuelgonzalez9341

2 жыл бұрын

I think he just means the person doesn’t exist anymore, but the subject of experience remains

All of the items in our dreams are us? No. They are projections of the arena, outside of us, that we must conform to or learn to change in some way. Using a larger 'mind' to solve the problem won't work. Emperical evidence is only required if you are a materialist (you believe primarily material moves the world) but this disenchants the world. So you need to be careful if you use ONLY emperical tools. All you are doing when you invoke empericism is tying non material to physicality. Romantic ideas of guardian angels is likely an attempt at returning lost intimacy. Emergent from us? This implies control and materialism. Emergences that don't match emanations fail. The closer something is the longer it can last (given the same amount of 'power' - time, energy and attention) which is why people are trying to emerge things like the climate cult, but it fails, ultimately. In some way, it's right that these small religions (climate, race, safety, equity, etc.) are trying to get more people, they'll last longer. However, you cannot properly participate with those emergences, so it cannot properly absorb our power and nurture us. This is why Christianity is important and works, it norishes us as we norish it. I don't like the question about do you exist after you die, a person is 'smaller' than an angel. He's trying to use materialism to understand something non-material. This pre-existence is just emanation, which is why emergence alone doesn't work for understanding the world. In other words, emergence is the failure of materialism, it cannot take emanation seriously because that would require submission to the idea of creation as such. I'm not sure why boundaries are an issue with materialists, this is a problem for them, they are rejecting the tools that would allow them to understand identity properly (non material emanation) yet they keep going back to that. At least Veraeke opened up the problem of combinatorial explosion to show the futility in trying to maintain a materialist view of identity. I think 'mind' is the non-material magic the materialist will invoke to solve a bunch of problems, this is where the pantheism always pops up. I think invoking emanation is a better plan, even if it scares (as it did to Dawkins) people into facing something that might become awe inspiring or horror. Where do the fractal patterns come from? Linking subjectivity seems like a bad plan, but that is a unique way to solve the problem. I dislike invoking inter-subjectivity to resolve these things, that isn't what reality is (but I can see where a materialist has no choice). There is no reason to 'personalize' the daimon because it is personified in Christ. Attach names?! To control them? To make them into objects? Materialism confirmed. Progress wants?! No. The broken cult of progress is a bigger problem, I have a video on that, see my channel Navigating Patterns. See, we cannot bend the universe to our will, we are prevented from doing so. If we want that, progress might be the mechanism or manifestation or implementation of that desire, sure, but causation matters. Desire comes first (or spirit) the physical (material) does not drive the world, that is backwards. The idea of progress is not driving anything and modernity is not a thing. You cannot replace religion (post 1500's definition), you can only try to remove it without success, something will take the place of whatever 'religion' you try to reject because the ancients knew religion is the statement of how humans interact with reality (both material and non-material aspects). 2000 years of preaching has worked. The problem you point to is likely what Vervaeke calls a perennial problem. What we need to do is accept the problem and struggle through it. We struggle with meaning, not to find it, but to co-create it. Why? Because meaning we create alone (impossible, you still need nature) can only last as long as we do. We need others to create meaning past ourselves. That requires sacrificing in order to cooperate. This is not a solvable problem, you just need to participate in struggle and turn that struggle into joy (else it will become suffering). Too big a mind?! Wow. Cartesian materialism confirmed. Seems like ritual and cooperation through ritual would solve his problem along with embracing Christ. Hitler didn't take responsibility, that is why he destroyed Germany, it failed him. Service requires submission, which is how you gain freedom. If you have no constraints, you cannot be free, because there is only freedom to deal with. It is the prison of materialism, individualism and objectivism. The problem with ubermensch is that WE cannot do that alone, or with nature and other humans. We can only transcend in the way suggested with God through theosis. Cartoonification - flattening of the world, disenchantment by materialism, perhaps? Christians are for lions.

Benardo's struggle with the infantalizing of Christianity is exactly mine. I go to Church almost every Sunday, and when I hear people express themselves, in say Bible study, and hear the clergies approach to the meat and potatoes of scripture, I am often depressed at the numb level of approach. It's often, as Bernardo says, a "cartoonish" projection of the stories to squeeze every last drop of relevance for people's lives. Just sayin...