Ah, easy for me to be wise after the event. Classic earth loop problem. The screen on the rotary encoder cable was connected to earth at both ends. There's a loop formed and noise current - either picked up or induced - flows around it creating the noise voltage. Folks, this is important, choose one and one only point to connect all the screen leads to. It's called a star point. The rotary encoder screen is hard wired a the encoder end and is therefore connected to the lathe protective conductor. Usually a bolt and washer set up is used for a star point. Only ever connect one end of any cable screen and do it at the star point. Do not use the screen to provide the protective conductor, do that separately according to code. If you can't use screened cable try twisted pairs, that trends to limit longitudinal induced noise. A filter on the input mains feed to the lathe VFD would not go amiss. Stops the VFD noise getting back into the domestic supply - it's not just messing with your equipment! James Clough shows the machinations involved with his sequence on installing a VFD on his lathe. I don't have this problem as I have a different lathe motor controller.

@routercnc9517

Жыл бұрын

Ok good info again thanks Bob

Normal practice is to connect shield/screen in one end only to prevent noise problems. Also noticed that you have your compund set to the wrong 30 degrees. It should be 30 degrees from other direction. Probably marked 60 degrees on your machine. Threads cut the way you did will create a non symmerical thread. Looks good otherwise. Good luck.

@routercnc9517

Жыл бұрын

Oo I’ll check that. I’m pretty sure the markings don’t go to 60 degrees and with the focus on filming I didn’t notice it was wrong! For aluminium I’ve single point cut at 0 degrees as the tool pressure is OK but thought I would go for the more general setup this time. Thanks for the heads up!

Final comment from me. Thank you yet again for taking the trouble to make these extremely useful videos. I'm very grateful as they will help me a lot. As I mentioned in an earlier post I screened the Texas Instruments board. If you have more noise problems in the future I suggest a) suppress them at source - the VFD and maybe the DRO. b) Add an earthed to case metal divider between the mains side and the low voltage. c) I think you have largely now done this - run mains and low voltage cables as far apart as practicable. My very best wishes, excellent presentation, these jobs are never that easy and you have created a very useful educational resource for anyone contemplating adding this facility. And finally, finally folks, it is well worth all the agro!

@routercnc9517

Жыл бұрын

Ok thanks for the info!

Great series! You are so patient and methodical and I’m glad you got it sorted. I bought the parts from James and am attempting this project myself. Just getting started but your videos will help. Thanks

@routercnc9517

Жыл бұрын

You are welcome!

Very good piece of work and lovely presentations throughout. I have more EMC noise debugging to do (my note in video #5) but you have given me a few more thoughts. I have installed an IEC mains socket with an integrated 5A EMC filter. I have run mine for about 4 years and I notice the encoder is now mechanically noisy. Thanks for sharing.

@routercnc9517

5 ай бұрын

If you have an oscilloscope it can help but they are quite expensive. Someone commented that my encoder was mounted with the belt tension putting a moment into the shaft. It might be what is causing noise in your encoder if the bearings are getting worn? If mine goes I’ll add a support bearing the other side of the pulley.

Bang on, well done! You have put me off doing this with my lathe though 😁

@routercnc9517

Жыл бұрын

Yes it was a bit of a journey but I’m glad I did it!

@tom_tom_go

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely, great effort!

Congrats, it's been a long journey with a happy ending and many learnings. One thing I would recommend and something I'm planning to add to my setup is an adjustable e-stop that the carriage bumps into and cuts off the servo power. Stops you from accidentally running the tool into the chuck.

@routercnc9517

Жыл бұрын

Nice idea. I think interrupting servo power would be OK. A micro switch would be simplest but as always got to watch for interference!

I think a moveable microswitch e-stop on the ways that would contact the carriage and stop the servo is the best safety stop. Other than that, one of the tidiest installations I have seen. Definitely an inspiration for my build.

@routercnc9517

Жыл бұрын

Yes there have a been a few suggestions like that. One for the upgrades list!

Love this series and all the detail you put into these videos! Not to mention the attention to detail in all your projects I've seen so far, really something to aim for. Thought ... why not run one mains input to the entire system, and then the mains e-stop would cut off everything at once? You could add series switches after the e-stop if you want to be able to isolate power to certain components for any reason.

@routercnc9517

Жыл бұрын

The lathe estop controls a contactor which stops the motor running. Interrupting the mains to the inverter would not be good for the inverter if it is running, so not such a good approach. Thanks

I have been following your journey with this and glad you got there in the end 👍🏻 I finished my Clough42 ELS install a few weeks back and love it! I used bevel gears to drive the leadscrew which allowed me to mount the servo motor at 90° and keep it within the cabinet

@routercnc9517

Жыл бұрын

Good idea. I was worried about backlash but I guess if you drive well past the start of the cut and then back into the cut it would not matter.

@stuartcox4739

Жыл бұрын

@routercnc I don't notice any backlash, but I use the halfnut and thread dial indicator when cutting threads so it doesn't really matter......Anyway, you've done a really neat job of your install, nice job 👍🏻

@routercnc9517

Жыл бұрын

OK sounds good

James did have problems with noise when he installed the inverter, I think he used ferrite chokes on the power wires coming from the inverter. Check that video out. Great job.

@routercnc9517

Жыл бұрын

Oh yes now I remember it. He did some calculations on the sizing. I’ll go and re-watch it. I also have a cooling motor which runs to cool the lathe motor- it came with the lathe and might be adding to the noise too. I’ll have a think about reducing the source, thanks

Congrats! :) You can still switch the 5V if you want by using a relay in the cabinet, you could switch it with mains from the lathe end.

@routercnc9517

Жыл бұрын

It did cross my mind but I was worried about more wiring. I’ll see how it goes like this.

Just stumbled on your series for the ELS. You are incredibly patient and your installations are a masterclass in how to have a super neat and professional installation. I installed a Clough 42 system a time ago on a very old Lorch lathe on the long top slide screw. That worked well after some minor issues mainly due to my own lack of skills on the computer side and a faulty TI board that took a while to isolate. I am presently working on a Hobbymat lathe and mill and am fitting ELS on the lead screw. I will be using both manual operation of the stepper and the Clough 42 for threading. I have a complete system left over from the original one and it is all assembled but I need to re flash the board with a different leadscrew pitch. My problems stem from being aged 76 and forgetting what I did 3 years ago now! I currently have the manual electronic control of the leadscrew working fine and just need to fit a 4 pole switch so I can switch from one system to another using the same stepper driver and power supply. John

@routercnc9517

Жыл бұрын

Sounds good John. One of the reasons I make videos is to remind myself what I did! Also worth making notes and wiring diagrams as you go. Good luck with it.

I built the same one, putting it into a used Takisawa lathe that was missing the change gears. Works great! The only concern - when adding any complexity - is that it presents far more possible points of failure. So far so good, so fingers crossed.

@routercnc9517

9 ай бұрын

Ok well done. Hopefully it will keep working for you!

I watch James too, he's a electronic ninja but most of the non-machining content flies well over my head

@routercnc9517

Жыл бұрын

Yes I think he have us a big head start!

good job on sorting out all the issues, I'm in the process of doing the same thing to my lathe. One thing I did notice when you were cutting th thread at the end of it all, you had the compound set to 30 degrees, on these import lathes, you need to set it to 60 degrees, as they label them up the other way round!!, caught me out first tie. well done on the job though.

@routercnc9517

2 ай бұрын

I don't usually both angle the compound especially in aluminium, but this time I thought I would do it properly. Watching the camera setup, framing, and focusing on the work I missed that the threads were pushed to one side! Several others noticed too. Anyway, pleased to have it finally working after such a long time of building it. Thanks

Great video. glad to see you sorted it out. Personally my OCD would force me to sort out the noise on the ground. In my mind, sooner or later that could turn into a problem I wouldn't want to have. At any rate, can't wait to see your next video.

@routercnc9517

Жыл бұрын

Yes but the problem is it seems to be coming in on the Earth line. If anyone has suggestions I’m all ears but to my mind I should not anything between the case and the earth at the wall because the whole point is it must trip the breaker if there is a short. Filtering L and N I think are OK but that would not fix it. Open to how it could be done if anyone knows.

@terrym3543

Жыл бұрын

@@routercnc9517 I am thinking that the noise is coming from the main Drive inverter. If that is the case isn't there a inductor filter available? not completely sure about that. Just a thought, are you sure that your Earth ground is intact and working? I worked for an electrician as his service technician for 17 years. one time I went out on a call over a grounding rod that was no longer conducting with Earth. turned out the soil was so dry there was no electrical connection. Good luck if you do decide to try and sort that out. I know it could be a real pain to sort of tricky issues like this.

@routercnc9517

Жыл бұрын

I can easily filter the supply to the lathe inverter but as far as I know it does not filter the earth since that might stop it tripping properly if there was a fault. I’ll use it for a bit and see how it behaves. Interesting idea on the ground rod. I don’t know enough about that side with the TT or whatever earth type might be installed here. We have some electrical work planned in a month or 2 (with an electrician) so I can ask the question unless there is something I can do myself with a multimeter?

@terrym3543

Жыл бұрын

@@routercnc9517 In the US we Bond ground and neutral at the main circuit breaker panel and drive a 8-foot ground rod into the Earth next to the panel outside. And then use a solid 6-gauge wire between the ground rod and the ground bus of the main panel. but not at any branch circuit panels. So in the US you can check to see if ground is there by using a multimeter between hot and ground. In the US we follow the NEC code. Unfortunately I do not know how things are done in the UK. regardless what you choose to do, I would strongly urge that you verify you have a working ground. In the US typically you might get a shock of 120 volts to ground. That can be pretty uncomfortable. in the UK being 240 volts to ground must be extra spicy. Good luck and be safe.

@routercnc9517

Жыл бұрын

OK thanks. I think the house earth is connected to the water pipe (copper?) which enters the house. I have seen some houses use earth rods too. I think I should ask the electrician next time they come over as we are having some work done shortly. They have megaohm meters and the other kit plus knowledge of what the earth vs neutral should do. Thanks for the comments, much appreciated!

Another alternative to this is the NanoEls H4 it is pretty amazing how good it is. I like the Clough42 one but its a bit basic.

Well big intake of breath once it’s done, lot of work to get this up and running, there is a market for a plug and play version with all the bugs ironed out, think once it was produced in reasonable quantities it would be a decent price, how about it lol, nice series, I have subscribed 👴🏻👍

@routercnc9517

Жыл бұрын

It’s a nice idea but too many projects!

well done, nice job

@routercnc9517

Жыл бұрын

Thank you

James included lockouts in the later firmware to stop changes other than feed rate being made when the chuck was in motion.

@routercnc9517

Жыл бұрын

Yes rings a bell and makes sense

Does your lathe have the power cross slide/facing feed? I am getting ready to install this kit in my lathe that looks identical to yours, but a different brand. I was wondering how this ELS would work with the power feeds that are not run from the half nut. I am guessing I will have to adjust the software for the different gear ration I may have.

@routercnc9517

Жыл бұрын

Yes it does and I’ve used it to make facing cuts no problem. Obviously the displayed feedrate is not correct but you just use the up and down buttons to set something you are happy with.

Sounds like you have a earth loop. the screen's should only be connected on one end so you could earth your screen's at the box end and isolate at the lathe end or the other way around. But some thing I saw when you was wiring up the box in the last episode made me think you may have earthed one or all the cable screen's at both ends or you connected the negative return to the screen. I just can't remember what it was that made my mind think that's going to bite him in the bum. LOL but worth a bit of time just going over the wiring and checking weather the screens are not connected both ends. The earth loop will give you a lot of problems.

@routercnc9517

Жыл бұрын

I think what caught me out was the screen for the encoder is connected at the encoder end to supply ground (or 0V?). I’ll need to double check which is the case with the one I took apart to be sure. I’ve made lots of control boxes over the years and never had this much trouble!

I wanted to try this project but after watching this series I just don't think I have the know-how

@routercnc9517

8 ай бұрын

Missed this comment. Yes it is not turn key but I found rewatching James’ videos was helpful.

very nicely done! Can the threading dial be used?

@routercnc9517

8 ай бұрын

Yes it still works fine. You still wait for the line to come around to engage. However I guess your point relates to if you can use the intermediate lines since the gear ratio is now variable. I’ve only used the same line each time and will have to think if the other lines are valid . . . Initial reaction is I’ve not changed the pitch of the leadscrew so they are valid but I welcome a second opinion from anyone reading this as it’s getting late here! Great question!

Well done! Wouldn't it be less prone to noise if the earth cable that you have mounted to the inside of the cabinet be connected to an unpainted (bare metal) surface?

@routercnc9517

Жыл бұрын

The stud is welded directly to the metal under the paint so it is actually earthed to the cabinet.

Very nice job, I have my Clough 42 kit ready to go on, where was your uk source for the power supply? 😊

@routercnc9517

7 ай бұрын

I can’t find the link but they are all over eBay. For example www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204175707662?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20180105095858%26meid%3Df318630916ae427ebd2082baf3359ea3%26pid%3D100904%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D20%26sd%3D386210997413%26itm%3D204175707662%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2332490%26brand%3DBrand&_trksid=p2332490.c100904.m5276

can u explain what the screen does, I've seen them but I don't understand what it does and why

@routercnc9517

Жыл бұрын

My understanding is that is prevents RF signals from being emitted from or received into the cables which run inside it. You ground one end so any signals are immediately grounded rather than inducing current (noise) in the cables. A bit like a radio. If you ground both ends they might be at different potentials so current will flow and maybe induce current in the signals wires inside, which you don’t want. That’s my view anyway. They won’t stop noise entering by the cable itself though.

Great work, and well made videos as well. How much noise does it make now, compared to the gears? Cheers

@routercnc9517

Жыл бұрын

Yes it is much quieter and much smoother now. I can’t hear any noise from the servo and leadscrew just the smooth sound of the spindle motor. There is some fan noise from the cooling motor and I may add some absorption eventually but I’m very happy overall! Thanks

@christiantrab6160

Жыл бұрын

@@routercnc9517 Great thanks, I have ordered the the same "kit" inspired by your videos 🙂

Watched it all, great work. Out of interest what was the total cost

@routercnc9517

8 ай бұрын

I started a running total but stopped using it. I would guess £400-£500 with all the bits and pieces?

Look at the thread profile carefully at 51:32, something is very not-right... 😬 Possibly it is some weird camera angle issue, but it really LOOKS like the thread is non symmetrical, like a sawtooth shaped thread. I dont trust James Clough42's firmware, I've been writing machine control firmware for 2 decades and I would NEVER use microcontroller floating point to do the pulse ratio conversion (as he did) because it is a lossy system that introduces errors, probably cumulative errors. Proper multi-axis firmware should use a variation of Bresenham ratio algorithm that never loses pulses and cannot have cumulative error.

@routercnc9517

Жыл бұрын

I noticed after the upload but I set the compound at 29.5 deg and on this lathe it should be set to ~60 degrees. So the thread is lob sided. My error not James! Thanks

Great job bet ur glad that’s done and also glad u have nuts lol 👍👌🏻😂

@routercnc9517

Жыл бұрын

Good to see you here again. Yes I’m glad that is behind me know and appears to be working!

E-stop with 2 nc contacts it’s common practice in the industry….😉. In safety contacts you need 2 contacts

@routercnc9517

Жыл бұрын

Sorry what I meant was one NO and one NC tended to be the default configuration when I searched for an estop.

You might want to buy spare electronics...in ten years you may find it hard to find replacement parts.

@routercnc9517

4 ай бұрын

It’s worth thinking about. The steppers, encoder should be OK (or an equivalent). The microprocessor could be a problem as well as James’ board but the microprocessor was about £50 shipped so is expensive as a backup. I think if this stopped working I would look to either make a system myself or go up a level to CNC or partial CNC such as the Acorn controller etc. thanks