Before matriculating university, I spent over 20 years in tool rooms mold rooms and tool and die Never saw a carbide end mill. HSS is perfectly fine for all alloys of steel just not pre-hardened. If there is a down side to it, it is that you have to go slower and pay more attention to coolant. In fact on mills such as the one you have there Carbide is probably the wrong choice almost all the time because your bearings are old and small and worn and not rigid enough to provide the ridigity carbide needs. So you are probably getting half the expected life of a carbide end mill.

@professorjim6874

3 жыл бұрын

And it's a universal mill with literally 7 different linear and rotary manual axes, so just doesn't have the... "rigibility" to use only carbide.

@oh8wingman

3 жыл бұрын

I agree with you wholeheartedly. HSS has been around forever and precedes carbide by probably 50 years. Carbide is great on tool steel or stainless steel parts but for mild low carbon steel HSS is more than adequate especially if you use a good coolant system since heat is what kills any mill tool.

@DavidHerscher

2 жыл бұрын

Facts.

@Dane33781

Жыл бұрын

If your machine isn't clapped out, carbide can be more economical than hss in the long run. You also have the option of not using coolant at all with carbide. I actually climb with carbide on my Bridgeport for finish cuts. It can be done.

@Raul28153

Жыл бұрын

@@professorjim6874 "rigibility" I gotta keep that one. At first I laughed at him, but it's grown on me. My 47 Horse Tractor has great rigibility. try to move that boulder, the rigibility will amaze you. The pastor has a character of momentous rigibility.

I’m new at this milling work, and this is very much knowledgeable for me to learn, thank you for this informative experience..

Very descriptive and clear explanation. Thank You!

G'day and greetings from Tasmania Australia 🇦🇺 your explanation of what you were doing and the difference between the the different cutting techniques I now know what was happening as my cuts weren't very good. I have subscribed and look forward to watching your channel again thank you very much, John

@thora8624

2 жыл бұрын

If you really want to learn, and get some extremely high quality information, tips and techniques, I suggest searching for and checking out the channel of Joe Pieczynski ...your welcome.

Very informative, thank you !

The explanation of climb cutting vs. conventional cutting was very good. The explanation of how to do the finish cuts was incomprehensible.

@abdukeeley6487

Жыл бұрын

Ong. I don't even know what a depth mike is lmao

Fkng outstanding! Thank you so much for these tutorials!🙏👍👍👍👍👍

Very good! simple & clear.

Thanks for sharing this very useful information.

I climb cut the final .010 or so. Chip load is small, finish is better. But never for roughing!

Imagine if we could cut steel with hss. But I guess that is simply not possible

@AK99581

2 ай бұрын

Don't know if you're being sarcastic or not but you definitely can cut mild steel with hss end mills. Just run slower and use oil.

Thanks for your Knowledge , very helpful for a newbe.

Interesting and informative. Thanks.

Dude this video is perfect.

HSS is perfectly fine to use in mild steel.

@James-gk8ip

3 жыл бұрын

Yes I dunno where this guy got this.

@craigtate5930

3 жыл бұрын

I have had bad luck with HSS in steel

@Clinthor86

3 жыл бұрын

Some shops will fire you for using carbide on unhardened steel lol.

Wow!! Been using high speed steel to machine steel like forever. Who ever told you that? How long have you been doing machine work, jeez dude.

What brand and model is the endmill you are using in this vid?

Thanks for making these videos, I am sort of stuck at a job where we do make some custom parts and the lead machine shop guy quit and left me to figure it out.

@gamingpentagon

6 ай бұрын

Same position, dude, hopefully youre makin it!

Thank you so much it makes sense

I’ve been using high-speed steel and mills on Steel for 40 years. You just need to get your speed and depth of cut correct. A little cutting oil won’t hurt. Of the three carbide end Mills, I think you chose the wrong one. I would’ve gone with the larger one. The larger end mill would have been more rigid and all-around more useful if you were only going to buy one.

@HorsleyLandy88

5 ай бұрын

55 Years for me using HSS.

Great job on the video

Thank you from a newbie!

What is the difference of HSE and HSS end mills? I bought 2 HSE 2-flute end mills and it can not flatten a pre-drilled hole and its sharp points will wear out as soon as it touches the work piece; also its cheaper for only $18.40. Then we bought HSS Co. no 8; its points do not dull fast unless you made a mistake while setting it. I just wanna know the difference of the 2. Thank you!

You say "steel" like I say "Stihl" lol The reason I find that humorous is I only just recently learned I've been pronouncing Stihl wrong my whole life.. 😂😅

Which Brand End mill do you use?

THANK YOU !

Rigibility... gonna have to start using that

There is a time and place for climb milling, it definitely serves a purpose, and HSS can be used to cut steel, it just doesn’t stay as sharp as long...

@Sketch1994

Жыл бұрын

I actually climb cut on anything, from the clapped out minimill at work and a equally clapped out 40 taper knee mill, to the brand spanking new 50 taper big boy box way horizontal universal manual mill (with a universal huron head attachment, a +-45° table, a universal angle rotary/dividing/differential indexing/helical milling head-tailstock attachment along the dreams of finding the elusive vertical slotting head attachment...universal af in general) and the VMC of course. On manual machines I can do some pretty fine work on steel with quality HSS-E tools, but when it comes to VMC work (even if it's just a one off prototype/jig/fixture/mold/die/stamp) I cringe whenever I as much as touch an HSS tool that isn't a tap or a countersink (not a chamfering tool though) on the bench

@carsonp.7009

Жыл бұрын

@@Sketch1994 Im pretty new to machining, maybe 6 months or so running a VF2 doing job shop work and i just noticed that ive never had problems neccasarily climb cutting when cleaning up stock, on ABS it seems to make a big difference or else it will be very hairy, also i find it confusing how its called conventional milling vs just calling it climb cutting vs, well not climb cutting?

@Sketch1994

Жыл бұрын

@@carsonp.7009 Technically it's upmilling and downmilling

@carsonp.7009

Жыл бұрын

@@Sketch1994 the more you know

Nice presentation

Strange opinion on hss tools

Thank you very much

Thanks for the video. Is there a reference, or cheat sheet to show spindle speeds and feed rates for various types of steel/aluminum and various types of mills? I’m milling 17-4 stainless with a carbide 5 flute end mill. Also, how do you know how deep of a cut you can take? Thanks again.

@vsriotact

9 ай бұрын

zeus book. Little pocket book full of machining information

Nice buddy

I’d like to correct you. Not all but many older machines “if” the gibs and ways are in good condition and you have a good table and you have sufficient HP, you can climb mill which I personally did myself for over 30 years as an application specialist for a major carbide end mill company. (Which is better and preferred ) on most all carbide end mills. Conventional cutting will prematurely wear your end mill out because of the rubbing from a zero chip thickness to a very heavy chip throwing all the heat on the tool and dulling the tool quickly. Climb milling puts all the heat into the chip so less heat is at the edge of the tool and less wear and tear on your tools. The part will be barely warm to the touch. The proper SFPM-surface feet per minute and CPT-chip load per tooth is required for a given material. This will help the performance of the tool in a given material.

Thank You

I have to disagree on the point of choosing the .5 over the .75 because of price. If you can't afford it don't buy one, but if you can afford a .75 carbide FEM and it makes sense in your application, use it. With proper use it will last a long time and you will be able to hog through much more material than the .5 FEM. While it is much more expensive, if you're using proper feed rates then it should be able to make you much more money than you spent in the time saved cutting your material while lasting a long time.

@partmaker

7 ай бұрын

The smaller cutter you can spin a bit faster and keeping chip load the same if you can will give a little more feed ability

"rigibility" haha Got it!

@Raul28153

3 жыл бұрын

HAHAHAHAHAHA Rigibility

@professorjim6874

3 жыл бұрын

He said it more than once

@Raul28153

3 жыл бұрын

@@professorjim6874 Say it with me "RIGIBILITY"

@duckslayer11000

3 жыл бұрын

He is a dipshit

@sushsushmitha8110

3 жыл бұрын

@@Raul28153 hi we are a manufacturer of cutting tools is ther any requirement kindly contact me

Why not use hss on steel? Mine never dull, but i also run way lower speeds, like 240 or 100 rpm. I get really good finishes also.

how do you actually do a perfect feed rate on a manual mill once you have worked out the feed rate for your tool? got my RPM set for my two tooth carbide end mill with 260mm per min travel.. but how do i actually put that into practice? new to machining here )

@CJ-ty8sv

2 жыл бұрын

Really need more info but in short, if hand cranking, then it really comes down to feel with experience. If you have / are using a power feed, then you can get really close with a stopwatch / timer and adjust the power feed speed till you get what you want, then make your cut(s)... Just take your desired feed, then divide it by 6 and mark off the distance that you get (rounding to nearest .5 (or even whole number) if you get a decimal will get you close enough 99% of the time) and then adjust the power feed until your mill travers's that distance in 10 seconds. Unless your using less than 3mm (1/8") endmills, I wouldn't worry about the feed error from rounding, or just always round down so to reduce chip load rather than rounding up and increasing chip load. For example, lets say that you needed a feed of 300mm/min, just divide that by 6 thus getting 50, so mark of a 50mm distance and adjust the feed until you cover that 50mm distance in exactly (or as close to) 10 seconds time. If you have a DRO, then its even easier since you can start the feed and the stopwatch at the same time and kick the feed off when you hit 10sec, and see how much the DRO said you moved, then adjust the speed unitl the DRO is as close to the target number as you can get (i.e., 50mm in this example). *EDIT:* Rereading an older post because of a "Like" popping up and I realized I had an error in my time vs. distance math.. Was thinking of the 10 second interval and accidentally said to divide by 10 which it really should be 6 to arrive at the distance per 10 seconds.

HSS mills are almost free compared to carbide tools, and can be used for most materials if you calculate the cutting data..

@neoasura

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, we use HSS mills almost exclusively to cut aluminum, Hot rolled and cold rolled steel, etc without many issues. Then again my company provides unlimited end mills, so if we bust one, we have access to more.

@Zkkr429

7 ай бұрын

How much do you value your time?

I love using HSS on cold rolled steel.

wrong speed or feed if chip colour change hot. make bit sharp to dull fast.

interesting, I have been told by some people to "always climb mill" even on a manual machine, but my old mentor said conventional milling is the way you do it. I always have better results like that anyway!

@sevakmoradian6716

Жыл бұрын

If the machine is ball screw clim cutting is the way to go and all cnc machines are ball screw. Some manual machines are just screw and nuts and it has lots of backlash, so it’s better to use conventional.

@peterfoldesi483

9 ай бұрын

Depends on the machine, with old machines which has a lot of slop in each axis, conventional, because it won't pull the part on the end mill If the machine isn't a half dead one, and can do movements without slop, then climb Climb cut has an advantage because the edges on the tool won't rub on the piece, increasing tool life, and if I'm right it needs less power from the spindle as well, but it needs a rigid machine, otherwise the tool will destroy itself

@partmaker

7 ай бұрын

I just retired from 40 years in the shop. Imho there are not any firm rules as there are a bunch of variables to consider. As one poster mentioned yes, climb cutting can be difficult and even disastrous on a machine with a large amount of backlash. Climb cut will often give the better surface finish. One thing I have done on a loose machine is to remove bulk material cutting conventional and if a climb cut is desired tighten the table lock slightly on the axis you are cutting on to help the cutter not grab the work. Its worth it to take some time and adjust as much backlash as you can out of your machine. In machining experience is golden so get in there and do it. Be prepared to pop a few cutters but that is how it goes.

@Zkkr429

7 ай бұрын

Conventional mill on a manual if you’re taking any type of meaningful cut. Climb cut at your peril!

Rigidity!!!!!! No such word as rigability 😂😂

For mild steel you should us HSS

As a beginner I came here because I was experiencing issues climb cutting just as you described

@Machining-tutorials

4 ай бұрын

Awesome! We will be re making and enhancing videos covering more. Hope our channel helped you out!

next time i have some high speed still ill get me some carbide to cut that still

Climbing or conventional?

full package seny

Carbide...is the best option for any ..cuz involves HSM...different cuttings conditions😅..except Titanium

You lost me at high speed steel not being able to cut steel.

@madaxe79

3 жыл бұрын

I think it was more of a: HSS will cut steel, but it's not ideal as it will dull quickly.

@sparksmobilerepair4025

2 жыл бұрын

And "ridgeabuility"

@NeverStop909

2 жыл бұрын

@@sparksmobilerepair4025 rigidity

@whogavehimafork

2 жыл бұрын

I wouldn't know any better about use cases of HSS since I'm fairly new to machining (which is why I'm here) but "ridgeability" is what sealed the deal for me. Can't take someone seriously when they can't even say a simple word like rigidity.

@henrydando

Жыл бұрын

@@madaxe79 HSS will cut steel fine. Obviously it will dull faster than with aluminum but I've milled 4140 with HSS just fine and the cutter wasn't (noticeably) duller

Perhaps he said rigid ability

That hss roughing endmill would've taken all your extra material in one pass. You just have to keep the cutter cool with some kind of cutting fluid. Those teeth on roughing endmills (aka turbo mills) greatly reduce the amount of power needed to take the same cut with a regular endmill. Also it's Rigidity not rigibility. We also use conventional milling on manual machines because of feed screw backlash not lack of rigidity. If anything, most of the manual machines I have used are MORE rigid than a lot of CNCs

Why didn't you mention what speeds you're running. Let alone for carbide

High speed still

"rig-ability", I'm going to start saying that now instead of rigidity.

@alexanderbrewisgair4804

Жыл бұрын

A bit like "concentral"

high speed still

Oh... okay.. you Are a student..no worries.

Id say its probably time to go ahead and take a refresher course so you can get some of yer facts straight, bud. Maybe your local community college might be a good place for something like that? 🤔 P.S. ...was that Rigi-BILITY?? Could you please explain to me the definition of Rigibility? I do love learning new words, and I'd like to add it to my vocabulary, just want to be certain I've got the correct definition, ya know? So that I'm not using it out of context... Hafta admit it does have a certain ring to it. Rigibility. Hehehehe. 😆😳

rigidity not rigibility

HSS is no good for steel!! Bullshit mate!! Every standard drill bit is made from HSS so how are they able to drill through it?..

you need to know who is watching. hss was made for steel, even for stainless. you cannot order people to throw it away and choose the 3x-5x more expensive option just because it is not used in the industry.

@samerni8059

7 ай бұрын

Carbide doesnt last long in worn out machines anyway.

Using this type of machine you are prone to side mill using an end mill. They do not call them END mill for nothing. You should plunge cut an end mill and just light finish side climb mill. That way you only have to sharpen the bottom . End mill last much longer and less time grinding just the bottom.

Video is good, narration fine, but for the next may I suggest some fact checking? Some of what you said is in fact incorrect which is rather annoying for those of us who know.

@paulbfields8284

7 ай бұрын

You are correct.. he hasn’t had enough “playing time in the field” to know what he’s talking about..

"RIGIBILITY". Can't find it in any dictionary online. Perhaps rigidity would be a better choice............but all things being considered I don't believe I will be subscribing to listen to this drivel. No donut for you........

not an ideal presentation ... but ..it does include some basics ..

50 thouuu

It's a good video, but the explanation of the conventional and climb cut is the wrong way round.

If you can’t measure closer than .005” with calipers you really need to replace your calipers.

STEEEEEEL, not STILL.

not TRUE,, in regards to the "climb cut" ..the climb cut works well for holding size and finish ..for instance..cutting a keyway ...use a SMALLER THAN REQUIRED dia. end mill to rough the keyway.. then remove the remainder of the width .by removing the SAME AMOUNT of material from EACH SIDE of the slot ..

Rigeability? You mean Rigidity or stfiffness

면 되게 깨끗하다

@randallsemrau6911

Жыл бұрын

Interpretation: If you are very clean. ???

when did people start using the word "whenever" to mean "when"? Like nails on a chalkboard.

Picky but "rigidity" instead of "rigability"

Rigidity not rigibility? Not a word.

can you redo in English we went metric in 1965

"Rigibility" isn't a word, try rigidness instead.

When touching off your tool, make sure your quill is up. - well-manicured facial hair tool-guy

You should binge watch Blondiehacks, Mr. Pete, and Joe Pie videos before you put out another one.

“RIDGIBILTY”. Really?

You lost me on regrind...of course, they are used...

Rigibility? Dude, if you want to be taken seriously, you might want to speak correct english.

Rigibility

Wtf is still?

your use of the word "ridgability" is bothering me. if you cant use the correct technical terms why would anyone trust your information?

As someone whose native language isn't english, please stop saying still when you mean steel.

@user-mp8ii3ls9d

8 ай бұрын

The guy clearly has a southern accent

We found the rookie. Rigidibility 😂

There is no such thing as "rigibility". It's called "rigidity" for goodness sakes.

Anyone new to machine work shouldn't listen to this guy, and anyone with any experience at all wouldn't bother.

Great job on the video