What a wonderful guest. That was awesome team. Keep bringing the nerd level knowledge to the EV community. Cheers.

I level 2 charge my LFP Model 3 to 100% every Sunday (one mile from home). It finishes around 4pm, then it's driven to work at 7am the next day. Then driven down to 4-15% by next Sunday morning. Sometimes there's been an unexpected work cancelation on Monday. I take it leaving the car at 100% for the typical 15 hours isn't good, and the rare 39 hours is even worse.

Good information here. Scott is easy to listen to.

I'm a Chemist so LOVE me the battery chemistry talk.

Wonderful show. Really learned a lot from Scott. Thanks guys!

Tom, loved the L2 charge speed question. I use an old 20a Clipper Creek that I bought for my Fusion Energi 11+ years ago and it's all I need 98% of the time overnight, but will occasionally use my J+ 40a if needed in the hopes that it was actually better for the battery.

Fantastic information about our EV batteries. Thanks Scott!

Awesome episode. If/when you have Scott back, could you discuss something I often hear Kyle mention, which is the danger of punching it when you are at a very low state of charge. I understand the basics of it, and it is part of the reason for turtle mode, but it would be really great to hear an expert's explanation of it. Thanks Dom + Tom + Scott!

One topic conspicuous by absence is how to safely leave your EV battery for months without driving. Mine is in a 65 degree garage at 50% SoC and connected to a level 1 charger. If the location was much hotter, I’d decrease to 40% SoC and much colder probably 60%-70%. I’ve never had a battery problem.

@Jeddin

23 күн бұрын

That’s exactly how to do it

I charge ours at 32A. I have a charge point that let's me set it. Thanks Dom and Tom! This was a good topic to cover with a battery expert. Nice shark reference Tom!

We charge two EVs off 16 amps with the ability to max out at 24 amps for the circuit. 16 amps is more than ample for most of us. We drive approximately 27,000 miles annually combined, primarily home charging with the occasional short DC fast stop. 24 amp rate is available when needed, but I can count on one hand the number of times 24 amps were needed.

Wow, great, fascinating show. There's so much CW around batteries, lots of it contradictory, that it's great to hear from a genuine expert in the field. And Tom even got a little cheeky at the end. Bonus!

Domenick, this was one of the most informative videos on EV batteries I've watched. I've been an EV owner for over 2 years and I still learned things I didn't know about both NMC & LFP batteries. Thank you Dom, Tom, and Scott for clearing up a lot of myths and misconceptions about EV batteries and how to charge them.

Chicago was lack of preconditioning batteries before they got to a DC Fast Charger and the lack of CCS chargers. Plus their reliability issues at Electrify America and EV Go. And charging to 100% with Chevrolet Bolts takes 2 hours, they should have charged to 80%

24:00 Agreed. I heard tell to keep your LFP battery plugged in (not necessarily charging) at extreme low temps.

One small difference with charging your car at home at a lower amperage vs higher is that the onboard charger will have to do more work to increase to the proper voltage to charge the battery, so it will cost more overall, that's probably negligible though. I should do a test to see how much energy is used at 12 amp vs 32 amp to charge my battery the same amount.

@DriveElectricWithDomenick

Ай бұрын

This is something I'd hoped to get more clarity on as well, but it's hard to get everything in a relatively short episode. Let us know if you do that test!

@MartysRandomStuff

28 күн бұрын

The difference in the work the onboard charger has to do boosting and rectifying 120V vs. 240V isn't that large. What really makes charging at very low amperage less efficient is all the extra time needed. The few hundred watts the car systems "waste" while charging the battery is fairly constant. So if the charging system uses say, 250 watts, charging for 12 hours at level 1 vs. 3 hours at level 2 wastes about 2.25 KWh. Doing that every night would add up on your electric bill.

Excellent! Enjoyed every minute!

Great job. But as an electrical engineer, there is one thing that he kinda said but you over all skipped. In most of the newer battiers they have a buffet. Example VW ID.4 is a 82 kwh but they limit it to only 77 usable. Many cars have this so even when you charge it to 100% it is not really sitting at 100%. Tesla does this. The Bolt is one that has a very small buffer and it has had more issues.

@zerix01

Ай бұрын

I'm reasonably sure Tesla has the buffer on the low end and not the high end. So a Tesla at 100% should be about as close as you will get to a real 100%. Reason being, this helps prevent pack bricking and it lets the owner use the whole battery if they really need it.

@ArielBatista

Ай бұрын

@@zerix01 there is no low end or high end. In battiers it's about voltage and amperage. Which is determined by the software BMS.

@zerix01

Ай бұрын

@@ArielBatista Right, the BMS makes an estimate on how many kwh are available. The bottom or top of the pack is determined by software. It doesn't change what I said as that is computer controlled.

@DriveElectricWithDomenick

Ай бұрын

I'd meant to bring up the buffer when we were talking PHEVs, but my mute button was on, so Tom got the next question and the conversation had moved on by the time I got another turn.

This was awesome. I would like to learn more about the use of LFP batteries and solar systems in houses.....

Thank you for this session. My brain is happy today.

Great session. Information that is needed for all considering EV purchase. My biggest reason for not pursuing EV purchase is the environmental impact to the planet versus the advantages of redacting CO2 emissions. I am not concerned that the level of CO2 is a major contributor to temperature variations/climate change/global warming. The planet’s temperature has been variable for thousands of years. There are signs of large trees in places that are frozen year round presently. It would be nice to have a discussion surrounding Li battery fires: what is the major contributor; what are the toxic emissions, temperature of the fire.

I wish he would have talked about the NCM battery and charging or why. He did great on the LFP

Thanks for the great video. I'm going to experiment with my Level 2 charging rate so it lands at 100% on my LFP battery closer to my drive time.

The idea of one car with two batteries with different chemistries and purposes is very interesting, hybrids are a similar but less sophisticated idea. Are any car manufacturers considering this?

@DriveElectricWithDomenick

Ай бұрын

The company Our Next Energy (ONE) is taking this approach, mixing LFP and "anode free" cells.

Interesting topic on battery health, great podcast guys ❤❤

Great vid! For the next discussion could you discuss the pros and cons of cylindrical, pouch, and prismatic cells especially as far as longevity and heat management. It’s seems most of the cars Kyle test that have poor heat management are cylindrical cells and the others with good performance are pouch and prismatic. Thanks

Great episode

Great information. However, we have 2 EVs, and my wife doesn't care about the charge rate. She wants a reliable charge. There is no reason to give charging data to 99% of customers.

This is great. Thanks so much.

Great show!

Great episode. But will someone please tell Dom that Lithium-Iron-Phosphate (LFP, aka, LiFePO4) ARE Lithium-Ion batteries?! He meant LFP vs. NMC (or NCM), not LFP vs. Litium-Ion batteries. The latter two are the same ....

@DriveElectricWithDomenick

Ай бұрын

Hi there. I am well aware that LFP batteries are a type of lithium battery. 🙂

Excellent topic and guest. For EV nerds, this confirms information we’ve heard from other experts.

Thanks Scott 40:21

Great discussion. In many ways EVs are not that different from ICE vehicles. Operating any vehicle, regardless of the drive train, degrades the drive train. However, there are practices that result in longer operating life. Red lining a gas engine once won’t wreck it but doing it routinely will shorten the engine’s longevity. Just don’t treat a battery like it was a gas tank.

This was fun I enjoyed the show.

Thanks for the shark warning Tom. Great reference .

This is cool and all but most people dont take care of their vehicles already now just imagine the care you may need to have for maintaining a battery.

9:00 I did not know about Potassium batteries. Stationary Battery storage.

Related to my other questions, could it be that smaller round cells are easier to heat and cool so thermal management works better on them? Could that be the reason they seem to lose less range? It seems like it would be more difficult to cool a thicker battery or to heat it up for charging.

My Charge Point Home Flex is limited to 24 amps by my home wiring situation. My Mach E has never been DC charged. The fastest it’s been charged is 40 amps and 32 amps a few times as I was finding my breaker limit so not very often. (50 amp breaker circuit off a 60 amp sub panel. 60 amp was the one tripping.) Hopefully this bodes well for longevity. 😊

Interesting comment about charging PHEV. Chatch22 small battery so need to daily charge to max EV range yet does not take long to charge. So the poor user needs to be smart about using the on-board charge timer.

One thing I've noticed for study of EV battery degradation is that it's worse on packs that have larger cells and fewer cells. For example Model X and S that use the smaller 18650 cells (and more of them) have less range loss than Model 3 and Y that have the larger 2170 cells. It also seems from early data that the even larger 4680 cells degrade even faster. Is there science behind that? Is it related to the cell size alone or also the total number of cells in the pack? Or does the S and X just have better pack designs and thermal management?

When I plan a long trip, I decide when I want to leave. Next I set the charge limit to 100% and plug the car in. When the screen tells me how many hours it will take, I subtract those hours from my leave time, and schedule the charge to begin at that time. For example, if I want to leave at 8am, and the car tells me it will take 6 hours to reach 100% when I plug it in, I go into the app and schedule the charge to begin at 2am. Simple. Then I don’t have to worry about it.

Wondered if a battery composed of 60% NMC cells and 40% LFP would provide advatages in such that the LFP portion would take the recharging cycles and the NMC portion would cycle less but provide better power density and performance.

@a2bear06

Ай бұрын

Great idea! Actually, Nio, CATL, and ONE Energy have proposed and built demonstration packs using this idea.

@nc3826

Ай бұрын

They are are referred to as hybrid battery packs.... and the same logic is extended, to also utilizing super capacitors....

I don't think I heard this discussed in this video, or elsewhere, but here's the question that keeps nagging me: Can an EV battery be frozen so completely that it cannot recover? For now, forget trying to charge. Can the battery be so truly bricked that, even if you gently warm them before charging, they will not be able to accept a charge any more? BTW does this depend on the chemistry type?

It would have been helpful to know not to charge my 2013 PHEV (CMax Energi) immediately to 100% upon arriving home. By the end of the car’s life 11 years later, the estimated electric-only range was down around 30% (from 21 miles to 14 miles). Thanks for a great show, as always.

@DriveElectricWithDomenick

Ай бұрын

I wanted to ask a bit more about this, since PHEV batteries are typically formulated differently from BEV batteries to deal with the higher duty cycle and full charging, I thought they would have similar life spans. That doesn't appear to be the case., but I need more info.

@adamchalom3872

Ай бұрын

@@DriveElectricWithDomenick The Cmax battery was also air-cooled, so that might have also been a factor in its degradation. The PHEV was a good enough experience to give me confidence to go full BEV (Mach-E) for its 2021 replacement when I handed the C-Max down to my teenager.

@DriveElectricWithDomenick

Ай бұрын

@@adamchalom3872 Air-cooled? Oh. 🤦‍♂️

@elcharphe

27 күн бұрын

I bought a 2020 Prius Prime in December 2019. I have only 24k miles on it, of which 17k are EV mode. I have always used a charge schedule that starts charging @ 2 am, and depending on the end of day SOC the previous day, it finishes at @ 8 am at the latest. Sometimes, when we have only driven a few miles that day, I don't plug it in before we go to bed, and during heat waves that keep our garage hot, I also don't plug it in. So far I haven't noticed any decrease in range. It could be there just are not enough miles on the battery yet for that to show up; or it could be I am just the perfect use case for a PHEV, an old-timer muddling about in a small city, rarely going over 45 mph. Anyway, I'm a real believer in PHEVs as a good solution for some people, and would like to see more about their care and feeding.

@DriveElectricWithDomenick

27 күн бұрын

@elcharphe sounds like you're managing charging the best possible way. 🙂

This is the video automakers need to train their employees with‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️

LOL Thanks!🙏

I have a Tesla 3 RWD. The Tesla manual says to leave your charge level to 100% and to charge to 100% at least once a week. A bit confusing. I charge to 100% about twice a week, then put the limit to 50% until the level reaches this point beforce charging again to 100% I drive about 11,000 miles a year. Am I doing the correct thing?

Does tesla even give the consumer any detailed specs on what battery they are ordering?

Where is consumer protection to put these charging issues on the label?

Here is the situation I face if I buy a EV; I want a long range version preferably all wheel drive. Biggest problem would be is it would sit unused in the carport on average a couple weeks at a time. Couple times a year it would see long road trips for when I'm in the mood to travel. How would this affect the batteries? Should I leave it on a trickle charge every night? Biggest worry would be damage to the batteries. What would be the best battery type for this situation? When traveling I want to charge as few times as possible. Thanks

@rcpmac

27 күн бұрын

I’m no expert but I’ve heard other experts say that for long term storage especially in hot temperatures, the state of charge should be 30 to 60% avoiding a full charge. As discussed here, one should time completion of their full charge with departure on the trip. Just keep in mind that chemical reactivity increases with increased temperatures so these recommendations are especially important in warm conditions.

@johnpoldo8817

27 күн бұрын

I’ve studied this as well and concur with other reply. My Tesla is left in an air conditioned garage for 1-2 months without driving. It is plugged into a level 1 charger at 50% SoC.

So why can't we have dual chemistry batteries with one of them being replaceable?

Is there anyone out there to tell us about degradation in high heat regions like phoenix?

Q: Is 60 to 50% better than 80 to 70%?

@barryw9473

Ай бұрын

Yes

@nc3826

Ай бұрын

perfect is the enemy of the good

@rcpmac

27 күн бұрын

@@nc3826”Better” strikes a nice balance.

@nc3826

27 күн бұрын

@@rcpmac lmao

It doesn't seem like it's going to be gradual for vehicles. It looks like BYD is close to a 10 minute 10-80% charge on a 400 mile battery which is a convenience store stop which is the goal, I would think, for 95% of the users. As far as longevity goes, it should be good as they will only fast charge 5% of the time.

41:00 The boat will sink and a shark will bite you.

Great episode. Of all the episodes for Kyle to miss, sucks it was this one. Would've really liked to hear his input as well.

@nc3826

Ай бұрын

Seriously, I'm wondering if he will keep constantly charging his LFP packs to 100% ?

Scott who is nobel prize winner Akira Yoshino? Why is he famous? Why is yoshino power systems calling their batteries "solid state"?????

So he recommended don't charge LFP batteries to 100% every week?

@DriveElectricWithDomenick

Ай бұрын

They should be charged as per the manufacturer's recommendation. This 100% charge, though, is to help the vehicle's software. It doesn't help the battery, so it's not great to store it at 100% for any length of time.

@a2bear06

Ай бұрын

Scott Moura here - my lawyer says that I recommend following your car manufacturer's recommendations 😛But seriously, charging to 100% once per week is fine. The point is that charging to 100% calibrates the SOC algorithm, it's not that LFP inherently "likes" to be at high voltage. Dom's response is perfect. A+ marks!

@nc3826

Ай бұрын

Where is AI lawyer, when we need it? 🤪 But seriously, I'm willing to bet that AI will play an increasing role as EVs, become adopted by the masses.... (For example, octane levels are too confusing for most people, including for me and my dyslexia.... Just like how a ICEVs ECU, act as AI and automatically retard the vehicle's timing, when a lower octane rating is put in the tank) An AI, BMS will use the most current algorithms to manage the battery pack via OTA updates and you will be virtually slapped on your hand, if you try to alter the management... For Better or Worse, We really won't have much to worry about in terms of the battery management in a few years....

@rcpmac

27 күн бұрын

@@a2bear06depends on how much you drive. I only charge once per week anyway and would assume that charging to 100% for BMS reset might be desirable once every 10 charges or so but I don’t actually know.

Using the term calibration is incorrect as it is performing a verification. An educated professor should understand the difference. Calibration is comparing an unknown with a known standard which has known values, including error traceable to a National Standard and not some software verification. Calibration does not include adjustment as most National References are never adjusted or you loose the drift component which is critical to stability over time.

Just premium gasoline requirement is a deal breaker. Mediocre MPG when battery is depleted (28) is not helpful either. Overpricing the no massaging seats and no moonroof vehicle is really bad.

@nc3826

Ай бұрын

Your medication seems to need to be adjusted... . Good luck with that...

@nevco8774

Ай бұрын

@@nc3826 You are a RuZZian troll.

Shoul have asked scott how he likes to charge his car

This is nerd level 9000. Lady in a Model S pulled up to an EVgo CCS I was charging my Model Y and pulled out her J1772 to Tesla adapter and asked me how to use it. 99.99% of the population can’t handle this video.

@nc3826

Ай бұрын

That's why we come here, to help damsels in distress..... And to get a superiority complex ... But best of all, we can use the term, "pull (it) out" and not get arrested ;)

@rcpmac

27 күн бұрын

Equating using an adapter for the first time with following this video is absurd.

Is the EV industry tilting toward the throwaway car mentality again when costs to them are added in?

All batteries degrade both with how you charge and the aging effect. Why do you think all ev manufacturers state the capacity will be 70% or more over 8 years ? Every EV battery will fail eventually and every battery pack is slightly different. Lithium batteries might fail because the BMS detects the pack has charged over 3000 times and has degradation which is 8 years approximately. Our diesel KIA had a 7 year warranty but now after 7 years KIA announced they are phasing out supporting the car. Will the EV car be the same with the 8 year battery warranty lasting longer than the car ? If so your EV might have a failed module that can not be sourced thus scrapping the car after the vehicle warranty expires. Volkswagen told me that the new generation ID3 batteries can not be fitted to the first generation cars.