I truly love to read about and see all of the tangible evidence of the Book Of Mormon . And I am forever greatful for those who find them . For myself however , the fact that I stumbled upon a Book Of Mormon , in a time in my life when I was actually unconcerned about religious things , and wasn't especially looking for an answer about anything and started reading from the introduction page as far as 2nd Nephi , being compelled to do as Moroni said , I got down on my knees and prayed to know if what I was reading was true. I was struck with an overwhelming confirmation that the Book of Mormon was absolutely true , and that the man Joseph Smith's visitation was true , I had to find a missionary to tell me more about how to become a member in The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints . I knew that this was to important to pass up. That was for me all the evidence I needed . And I do so love Elder Holland .

@krissander1

2 жыл бұрын

But what evidence is there, massive civilisations but no trace of them to be found. In the UK there were Romans in Britain at the same time as the civilisations mentioned in the BOM. There is huge amounts of evidence of the existence of the Roman from buildings, temples, roads, coins, pottery, armour and much more, you don't even need to be an expert to find some evidence.

@caseykaelin9430

11 ай бұрын

​@@krissander1there is evidence. The ancient forts in Ohio and New York State, the bone pits in Kentucky and NYS, pre-Columbian copper mining in the upper Midwest, mounds with skeletons in them that have copper armor and DNA that comes out of the middle east. Legends from native Americans in the upper Midwest who say their ancestors came on boats from east. There is evidence you just have to look for it.

Thank God for feelings. Imagine life with no love,gratitude, loyalty. Feelings are the cause of mankind's greatest and most inspiring acts, the love of parent for child, aging spouses for each other,, brothers in arms all sacrificing and working for that which they love. Lose feelings and you have lost it all.

@krissander1

2 жыл бұрын

Feelings are also the cause of mankind's most heinous crimes

The quote from Austin Farrar, relating to CS Lewis but applied to the Book of Mormon struck me in a powerful way. It seems to relate to Alma's advice to Shiblon to "use boldness but not overbearance" in proclaiming what we know to be true.

@krissander1

2 жыл бұрын

Except CS Lewis was a Christian and would not have endorsed a Mormon to use his writings.

@samuelthygerson6009

2 жыл бұрын

@@krissander1 So what? This quote applies to members of Jesus Christs' true church, and other churches alike.

Oh how my heart sings the joy of your words.

Thank you for complete efforts. I add my testimony of Gods Powerful preparation of all before all! . Like the lost pages are a tiny immense gift

It is the spiritual conversion that the Lord wants us to experience for the time being. Evidence of the intellect is helpful and supportive, but we have all that we need to to gain a testimony of the truth, spirituality through the gift and power of personal revelation through the Holy Ghost. The test of this mortal experience wouldn't be a test if everything was just handed to us intellectually.

This is why I impart of my substance, even though it may be small to Scripture Central and I would encourage all that are able to do so. This world so desperately needs to know what the TRUTH is. It's my way to follow the command to go into all nations and teach the gospel.

How fortunate I feel , and how fortunate we all are to have this apostle of Jesus Christ to council us in these latter days .

I gained a testimony of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon while reading it.

@fazilkayumy9173

2 жыл бұрын

Dude their is literally way more evidence against the Book of Mormon than for it

@christopherpeery7436

Жыл бұрын

@@fazilkayumy9173 have you read the book of mormon cover to cover? Obviously not. You'd rather read every word you can find that refutes it than read the actual thing you're trying to refute Also, you're now suggesting a 24 year old uneducated farm boy wrote the Book of Mormon in 65 days. Considering the complexity of the book, that is something not even Tolkien could have pulled off and he was one of the greatest most educated literary writers of our time.

@fazilkayumy9173

Жыл бұрын

@@christopherpeery7436 so did Muhammad right the Quran or was that god too? And did Guru Gobind Singh wright the the Guru Granth Sahib or was that god as well? The Book of Mormon doesn’t even use the right grammar for the time period. They didn’t have horses and weren’t forging steel in the Americas that long ago. Also didn’t Martin Harris lose the original 116 pages? So the Book of Mormon wasn’t written in one go. Also if your book was a revelation from god why has there been so many changes from the original over the years. Look up 1830 Book of Mormon and compare it to the latest edition, you will see over 4000 changes from the original. Not just minor changes either but ones that affect doctrine. I hope you wake one day brother and come to the true God, 1 in 3 persons

@BarbieHitsBack

Жыл бұрын

@fazilkayumy9173 you seem so troubled and bent on disproving Gods TRUTH. Good Luck, you’re going to need it.

Great upload. Listening to Elder Holland is always a joy.

I love your testimony of the gospel of Jesus Christ and the Book of Mormon. I believe that He will come again and I am grateful to be able to read and study scripture. Thank you Elder Holland. I am amazed with the finding of the chiasmus in the scriptures, this was something I had not been aware of before following Mormon Central which is of great benefit to me. A great avenue of learning.

Wonderful prophet of god

Jeffrey Holland is an outstanding apostle of our Lord and Savior. Correct source to learn of the Saviors life. ChurchofJesusChrist.org ComeUntoChrist.org Truest members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints study the life of the Savior and live by His word daily through the Bible and Book of Mormon. The message is always the same...you are never alone. The Lord and Saviors ways are not the worldly ways of men. They never have been. The Lord and Savior would have us treat one another with empathy and understanding. The Saviors life matters most and understanding who He is. The more you know of Him, the more clear your life becomes, peace and blessings flow eachday and miracles happen. They are tender mercies.

I love Elder Holland.

@deskjockie4948

5 жыл бұрын

Does his wife know?

I find it rather amusing how many critics will randomly start talking about these nuances that don't even have to do with this video. That's not a good debate. Elder Holland never talked about Egyptology, or reformed Egyptian, or Josephs supposed sex mania in this meeting. He talked about how we need to have our hearts and heads work together and give reason to the hope that is in us for those who seek answers from us. But isn't it always the same arguments with these people? Isn't there anything new? Always finding one hundred and one reasons why this church isn't true from the internet when i can use the internet to find one hundred and one reasons why it is. LOL If everything was completely and physically before us all the time, we wouldn't need to exercise our faith. Through a glass we see darkly but soon we shall see as we are seen, and know as we are known. First comes faith and then the abundance of evidence being found in the light of said faith. People who ask with faith always find more answers than people who ask in doubt. Faith promotes people to find answers because they know that there is an answer and that it's out there whether they find it tomorrow, next month, or next year. People who doubt always have more questions because no matter what you say to em it makes little or no difference because they suppose they know of themselves and nothing else really matters. You LDS people keep on going! Keep on practicing your faith! One thing is certain, Jesus Christ is the LORD of Lords and the King of kings. He is at the head and because of his grace we need not fear.

@haydenhodges34

2 жыл бұрын

So discussion points about the validity of "The Book of Mormon" are "pick and choose" based upon your discretion?

@ranjanty

Жыл бұрын

Why do you bother to even watch this video if you don't believe? I just can't wrap my head around that. The only thing I can think of is that you like tearing down others faith to feel good about yourself. It's not what Jesus teaches my friend.

Don't the haters on this thread have something better to do than to mock a great man and the Restored Church. No need to be bitter that you couldn't make it as a member of the Church. Repent and come back or move on with your life.

@2326038

5 жыл бұрын

You call someone who rapes 14 year old girls great? bullshit!!

@2326038

5 жыл бұрын

@@CrustyRusty366 Ah Tony. Surely you jest.

@allisonalexander2269

3 жыл бұрын

@@CrustyRusty366 lorenzo snow 'married' two, fifteen year old girls.

Even if this religion false, this man believes it and loves it. I respect that.

*THE BOOK OF MORMON AN ACCOUNT WRITTEN BYTHE HAND OF MORMON UPON PLATES TAKEN FROM THE PLATES OF NEPHI Wherefore, it is an abridgment of the record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites-Written to the Lamanites, who are a remnant of the house of Israel; and also to Jew and Gentile-Written by way of commandment, and also by the spirit of prophecy and of revelation-Written and sealed up, and hid up unto the Lord, that they might not be destroyed-To come forth by the gift and power of God unto the interpretation thereof-Sealed by the hand of Moroni, and hid up unto the Lord, to come forth in due time by way of the Gentile-The interpretation thereof by the gift of God. An abridgment taken from the Book of Ether also, which is a record of the people of Jared, who were scattered at the time the Lord confounded the language of the people, when they were building a tower to get to heaven-Which is to show unto the remnant of the house of Israel what great things the Lord hath done for their fathers; and that they may know the covenants of the Lord, that they are not cast off forever-And also to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God, manifesting himself unto all nations-And now, if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God, that ye may be found spotless at the judgment-seat of Christ.* TRANSLATED BY JOSEPH SMITH, Jun.

@mikkifrompreston4396

3 жыл бұрын

Check out "View of the Hebrews". It was written in 1823 and published in the town where Oliver Cowdery lived :) Thats 7 years before the first edition of the Book of Mormon. View of the Hebrews was republished by BYU in the 90s. Its crazy how similar the stories and accounts are to the Book of Mormon

@krissander1

2 жыл бұрын

@@mikkifrompreston4396 like Joseph Smith plagiarised a lot😁

what evidence

13:29

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

@welcome2school

3 жыл бұрын

Look at the post from Roger Beutel above. All those links could keep you going for quite a while. Lots of good stuff there.

@haydenhodges34

2 жыл бұрын

@@welcome2school Yes, do look at the common theme in the links.

I will now show the greatness of the evidence … and it doesn’t matter who.. or when… or where… for any reason … at any time … at any place … or any evidence … because there is some … and here it is… for which I’m about to tell you … and here it comes … and you will be amazed … because when you hear it .. you will know … that it is true … and you will know these things … because they are true … and maybe it’s not so much evidence … but more of a feeling … which is basically the same thing … so really let’s not worry about evidence .. because since when is evidence important… so behold .. the evidence .. which we now know to be true .. is the truth … thank you 🙏

@krissander1

2 жыл бұрын

Amazing so many words and no evidence, even though there is a great deal of it..... Honest🤣🤣🤣

My question to all those throwing rocks at the Book of Mormon is why? Why are you so riled up? Why are you so threatened? Why are both your minds and your hearts so closed? Do you think you have all knowledge? Are you saying that you are prophets now and that you have received a revelation that it is not true? You say that we cannot prove the Book of Mormon is true. You are correct. We cannot prove the Book of Mormon is true and we can't prove the Bible is true either. We also cannot prove them false. But I have a spiritual witness of both of these books. There is evidence that makes the both books plausible, but the evidence alone cannot prove them to be true. God leaves it to us to study and approach him in prayer to find the answers. Do you believe that God answers prayers? Or is that not scientific enough for you? I have news for you. There is truth that exists beyond scientific research. In order to learn spiritual things, you have learn the language of the spirit and that starts with humility and a desire to seek and learn the truth from God himself. My advice is to stop throwing rocks and learn to be open. You do not know all things. None of us do. If you want to learn spiritual things, start over. Open your mind and your heart. See where that leads you. I predict, that if you do this, at the very least, you will stop insulting your neighbors for their beliefs and you will begin to focus on love instead anger. That would be a great step forward for you and all of us. I won't attack you for your beliefs. I would never do that. That is not the Savior's way. I would hope that if we cannot agree about the Book of Mormon, that at least we could be friends and not attack one another. I wish you well in your spiritual quest to know truth.

@happylatter-daysaint3503

5 жыл бұрын

Amen!! ❤❤❤

@steelman1506

5 жыл бұрын

Gay...teens.... Nuf said Idiot. The church is evil

@THG3

5 жыл бұрын

No I can’t prove that either book is completely false, but I can read the Bible and see errors and completely made up things. The first 2 books of genesis, don’t even mesh. The first chapter holds women on the same level as men,,,,made at the same time together, it neither says if god is make or female, it holds them as equal made in our image male and female......then the second chapter changes it all. So what was first man or beast? Tree or fish? I suspect an edit, I can’t prove it but I am convinced it was edited to put man superior. Talking snakes? Giants? The Bible is a horrible book, horribly written, and zero morale values are within it. I find zero redeeming qualities in any of the heroes of the Bible. If the Bible was “either approved by god or was inspired by god, than god is an idiot. I would not want to be with anyone who thought that book is the ultimate good for eternity. In fact every person I’ve talked to cherry picks and holds different believes within their own denomination, Mormon, catholic, baptist......it’s written so poorly all of these offshoot denominations say they are correct. Lmao If the BOM is another testament of an idiot “god” who claims anger and jealousy are gods traits but yet loves you and wants you to live eternally with him.....I’ll pass, in fact I would rather be with Satan, kissing a gods ass for an eternity sounds terrible. That’s how I know the BOM isn’t true, I would never follow a being that is portrayed in those horrible books. I can’t disprove it but the evidence I have read within its pages and false ideas, hatred, bigotry, mass murder and history that doesn’t even match the archeological timeframe of its own schedule. I’m an atheist, if you are somehow correct and your god thing is real please tell him to terminate my existence as I would be forced to overthrow this idiot god.

@buzzc5219

5 жыл бұрын

To Single Dad. I have no desire to rain on your parade. But I think I can shed some light. I was raised LDS. I have studied Mormonism for over half a century. I can only speak from my experience, but the opposite has been true for me as far as the "throwing stone's" issue. I have experienced the most unwarranted and venomous vitriol from Mormons in discussions, and I expect that to happen here. What really concerns me, is when it comes from General Authorities. I'm know it goes both ways, but I would hope all seekers of truth would understand that much. Also, If you want to watch anger, disgust, insults, and cheap shots, just research some of Elder Holland's speeches. I have lost all respect for him. He is one General Authority who you can tell is lashing out because of some deep seated conflict intellectually. Maybe I can put some perspective on why everything from mildly annoyed, to deeply profound anger, is injected into this subject. Admittedly, this is an extremely condensed and incomplete response, to your question. There is such a thing as "throwing stone's"... but there also exists social, scholarly, scientific, DEMONSTRATABLE, and logical issues. Just speaking for me,.. I will take demonstration over speculation every time. Regarding the scholarly approach, I admit, as an Archaeologist I find it offensive when I, and others, toil in the hot sun in the middle of nowhere for years on end, finding "real" evidence, only to have an organization with millions of adherents pretend to know what they are talking about (actual evidence, or lack of) Falling back on faith here is an insult to any thinking person, and profoundly intellectually pathetic. I can expose the idiocy of that another time. But that's been going on for some time, It's not likely to change. Believe me, I don't mean this in an insulting way, but it's like a Geologist debating a "flat earther", or a Gynecologist debating the stork theory. But beyond that, you have to understand the excruciatingly emotional and immediate problems associated with the Mormon social matrix, especially in Utah. I was the oldest of six kids raised in a STRICT Mormon household. Hours of church on Sunday. Mutual on Monday. Family Night, reading the Book of Mormon over and over. Leadership meetings and outreach activities all through the week. Home teaching, charitable activities, LDS lead Scout Meetings. Merit Badge qualifications. I was the youngest Scout ever to recieve an Eagle Scout Award. The Governor was at my Eagle Scout project. Howard Hunter attended my Eagle Scout Ceremony, he was a close neighbor and friend. I was a Mormon prodigy. I was invited into the High Priest meetings as a deacon to discuss gospel doctrine. I mention this so you don't think I'm just some caustic critic. One problem is,...(and this gets to the heart of your question), is when someone deviates, even slightly, in scholarly, or especially social situations, the result is immediate and profound. It can be anything from job security or hiring, to devastating alienation from family and loved ones. If you went through what I and others have, from family, friends, relatives and employers, you would understand. The constant condescension, the constant pressure to comply with someone else's belief system. Wanting you to respect their beliefs but not respecting yours. It's especially hard on people who actually suffer deep emotional trauma by being blacklisted from their beloved familes. Additionally biting, is how hippocritical is is. How Un-Christian from those who profess to know Christ, but can't get past the judgement and condescension. And no wonder, they hear it from the General Authorities. Don't associate with non- members was a real thing when I was growing up. Yet they send out missionaries. One of the biggest red flags of any Cult, is the admonition to avoid, (at all costs), anything that can be considered problematic to Church teachings. I recently watched an address from Dallin Oaks, exhorting all members to desist reading or studying anything that counters the Leadership of the church. One of the most important things a genuine seeker of truth does, is research and understand the arguments for and against your position. It either enables you to strengthen your position or gives you information to modify or develop your position. Oaks even had the gall to say that even if the Authorities are wrong, you should still obey without question. INTELLECTUAL AND MORAL RED FLAG!....There's no intelligent conversation you can have with someone like this. The unabashed nerve to profess extreme support for families, but destroy them unnecessarily, and with permanent damage, is just one reason you get the "throwing stone's" ...People get hurt bad in real life, and they don't want others to go through it. "Just throwing stone's"

@buzzc5219

5 жыл бұрын

@@richardholmes7199 I hope you're joking. For your benefit, not mine

The evidence is very strong in favor of the Book of Mormon. Chiasmus is only one of the many that include Book of Mormon witnesses, Wordprint studies, hosts of other Hebraisms, the very text of the Book of Mormon, etc. But the most powerful evidence comes from God Himself to any who are sincere, humble and faithfully seeking. I love this book. It has changed and continues to change my life.

@acronen

6 жыл бұрын

Chiasmus is a little interesting, but honestly it is hardly evidence. It isn't sound. Witnesses such as? The 3/8 that provided hardly reliable testimonies of their experiences? Why does their witness outweigh the others against the existence of golden plates? How does chiasmus outweigh the complete lack of archaeological evidence of the battles, or very populous and advanced civilizations mentioned? How does it outweigh the lack of a coherent narrative throughout? The faulty translations copied right over from the bible? The egregious anachronisms? The character of the man that brought it forth (Joseph Smith) being very much in question at best, and him being an outright predator, egomaniac, and scoundrel (such as his own writings about himself would suggest?) If it all boils down to a feeling, I am sorry, but that is just not enough, nor is it a good or reliable way to determine truth or accuracy. Feelings can be wildly misleading and are at best, unreliable mirrors of our own inner desires, not evidence of objective truth. The evidence is overwhelmingly stacked against the historicity of the Book of Mormon. Also, I will add. It is such a faulty and harmful claim to say "the most powerful evidence comes from God Himself to any who are sincere, humble and faithfully seeking." Which suggests that those that didn't receive your same good feeling weren't sincere, humble, or faithfully seeking. Many of us were, we just didn't feel this magical spirit. Moroni's promise failed.

@davidoconner3136

6 жыл бұрын

The evidence is 100 percent saying nothing is in favor of the book of mormon!

@acronen

6 жыл бұрын

To start, why would you need to explain away the witnesses? The LDS church (particularly about the BoM) has made testable claims, those testable claims have come up false. Is the witness testimony the one thing you believe it has going for it? Their testimony is dubious at best in its wording and origin. The close relationships between the men doesn't help this. Not to mention witness testimony in historical matters is, at best, unreliable. So when everything else falls short, and that is the only thing you have even a sliver of hope on it doesn't bode well for the truth claims of the book.

@acronen

6 жыл бұрын

You seem pretty incapable of rational discourse. You just want to insult to defend your faith. No lump in our throats, I provided explanation and you seem to be projecting onto me your inability to handle things. Not denying something? Were they all asked to deny their testimony at some point? Was there some benefit offered to them if they had denied it? Do criminals in prison often die in there never changing their testimony that they didn't do it? They all benefited quite well from their belief and high status in the church (whether through financial stability, acquiring wives/women as basically a sexual commodity, etc.) Some of them flip flopped back and forth, and were even taken by a man similar to Joe Smith (James Strang.) I agree with you. The plates to demand an explanation, and demand tangible evidence of their existence. Where are they? Arguably the most important item in Mormon history and they are nowhere to be found. They would just be lost somehow... or we are supposed to believe the more rational explanation is an angel took them away and people were never allowed to see them, only allowed to see with their spiritual eyes, or when they were covered, or handle some covered heavy object. So you operate on the idea that things are true until proven false? That is very dangerous, and a very faulty way of thinking. Any number of claims can be made in that case. You can't disprove the existence of unicorns, or invisible leprechauns can you? People have testified to their existence. How can you possibly deny this without disproving their existence? People have come up with good counter-explanations, they just won't ever be good enough for you with the fleece of faith placed over your eyes. As far as the witnesses being honest to a fault, that is a hefty claim and not sure how you are supporting this (other than you want to believe them, therefor they must be honest.) Yes the claims have come up false. Book of Abraham, Kinderhook plates (Joseph Smith's faulty translation powers.) Archaeological evidence, the complete lack of massive advanced civilizations in the Book of Mormon being found on the American continents. Anachronisms of a supposed perfect book and perfect translation directly from God. DNA evidence utterly refuting the claims of Lamanites being descended from Hebrews.

@acronen

6 жыл бұрын

You are the only one that has made the claim of a cover up. Perhaps the witnesses really believed it (at least to some extent.) People lie to maintain their beliefs all the time. Just speak to a mormon some time :) If I could see the plates would I suddenly be re-converted? (I am a former mormon, so for accuracy I replaced converted with re-converted) Requires more than a yes or no answer here. Initially, just by seeing plates of gold, no I would not be. If they were inspected, dated to be ancient, had this unseen (reformed Egyptian) language on them, and could repeatedly stand up to scrutiny and tests I would certainly believe the claims about the Book of Mormon. Ultimately it would raise more problems for me with Mormonism than I have now, because that would make God the immoral monster rather than just immoral men like Joseph Smith and Brigham Young creating something. Particularly upsetting would be that this god really did command them to take teenage brides, and other women as their own sexual commodities. Not a fan of that. But, I would at least believe (I would have no choice really, if the evidence pointed there) even if I would not worship. Study DNA more. Study the testing more and how they do those things. You can even read the LDS approved articles about it, even though it has some faulty spin. It does have some basic explanations. Then read the critics response to this to see how that is all done. DNA evidence does utterly refute the idea of the Lehi/family story from Jerusalem. (Explaining how it works requires a lot of reading, far too much to explain how DNA testing can answer your questions for a comment here. Worth looking up if you have the time though.) I would accept anything that matches something described in the book of Mormon. You know, such as a battle that killed millions at the Hill Cumorah. Maybe if there was any evidence of that, that would be a good start. Better yet, you could even just find a chariot wheel as mentioned. Or steel weaponry. Even just one. Or horses to pull their chariots or have soldiers riding on that existed on the continent at that time (Which they didn't, the spanish brought them and introduced them to the Americas.) I don't know what a nephite table looks like. It doesn't need to be a table. Maybe even find some nephite coins, or even one coin as mentioned in the BoM. It really would be rather easy, if the civilizations actually existed and weren't made up. Prophets and apostles since its inception (including Joe Smith) have claimed it is the most perfect book on earth and without error. That would be why. I don't assume it must be flawless, those that claim to be prophets of god claimed it was. Side note: I appreciate that response far more than the first one, and to be blunt think you actually raised some valid questions that time.

Where are the golden plates?

Chiasmus is not unique to ancient literature; it can be found in "The Late War Between the United States and Great Britain" which was published in 1816. This discovery does not validate the Book of Mormon as an ancient text. Interestingly enough, the Book of Mormon bears remarkable (and suspicious) similarities to "The Late War," a book with which Joseph Smith was familiar (see wordtree.org/thelatewar//)

@justinlangleymusic

4 жыл бұрын

Those who are interested in further research on this might wanna check out: www.mormonthink.com/glossary/chiasmus.htm

@LHJlives

3 жыл бұрын

The difference between the book you mentioned and the Book of Mormon is that if Joseph Smith really did write the BoM then it would be extremely unlikely he had any knowledge of chiasmus. The author of that book intentionally wanted to imitate some of the language in the Bible. With him being an educated author it is not nearly as much of a stretch in saying he knew exactly what a chiasmus was.

Any non-Mormons who comment on this video will not be worthy because the true Mormons will keep defend themselves about how true their church and the Book of Mormon are. Who knows...but only God.

@thepianist7084

6 жыл бұрын

I feel sorry for anti-mormons. They waste so much time not even knowing what they are talking about and accomplishing nothing. So sad.

@thepianist7084

6 жыл бұрын

Jeff Carlin sure you have

@thepianist7084

6 жыл бұрын

Because I have a problem with usurped authority

@DavidVonR

5 жыл бұрын

There must be some way to make money off of these gullible Mormons. I'm thinking about starting a Mormon apologetics website and selling bogus apologetic e-books to make a quick buck.

@DavidVonR

5 жыл бұрын

Why not? Are you an atheist? If so, then why not try to dupe Mormons out of their money? If you write some e-books and invent bogus evidence supporting Mormonism, someone's going to buy them, assuming you're good at marketing. It's perfectly legal, although not ethical. The whole time during this guy's speech I saw nothing but dollar signs. I could easily see putting a slick website together with some nice graphics and some professional-looking e-books with fabricated evidence. You just have to know to spin arguments that sound good. If you're good with affiliate marketing and you're good at writing e-books, there's real money here. Lots of gullible people + lots of money = opportunity. Mormonism is a cash cow if you know how to exploit it.

The most correct book on Earth as he corrects a mistake. Mormons I have a bridge to sell you

@johnlee1352

5 жыл бұрын

..."most" correct. Stop the spin.

@buzzc5219

5 жыл бұрын

@jouxpane touche'

@2326038

5 жыл бұрын

@jouxpane LOL

@grandpaje4734

5 жыл бұрын

@@johnlee1352 Immature !

@grandpaje4734

5 жыл бұрын

@@astromanofficial did you brush your teeth? You still have that piece of meat stuck between your teeth for months. It smells like a dead rat. Floss it and don't forget to take your 💊

When you have the burning of the bosom you can believe anything.

The Book of Mormon brings men to Christ through two basic means. First, it tells in a plain manner of Christ and His gospel. It testifies of His divinity and of the necessity for a Redeemer and the need of our putting trust in Him. It bears witness of the Fall and the Atonement and the first principles of the gospel, including our need of a broken heart and a contrite spirit and a spiritual rebirth. It proclaims we must endure to the end in righteousness and live the moral life of a Saint. Second, the Book of Mormon exposes the enemies of Christ. It confounds false doctrines and lays down contention. (See 2 Ne. 3:12.) It fortifies the humble followers of Christ against the evil designs, strategies, and doctrines of the devil in our day. The type of apostates in the Book of Mormon are similar to the type we have today. God, with his infinite foreknowledge, so molded the Book of Mormon that we might see the error and know how to combat false educational, political, religious, and philosophical concepts of our time. (The Book of Mormon Is the Word of God, President Ezra Taft Benson, Jan 1988.)

There's a whole lot of him claiming there is evidence and not a whole lot of him showing what that evidence is. By 'not a whole lot' I actually mean 'none at all'.

@GaryKColeman

5 жыл бұрын

@Astroman-- In the July/August 2018 edition of "Biblical Archaeology Review" on page 32, is an article "Egyptian Papyrus Sheds New Light on Jewish History." The author is Karel van der Toorn. The article about a papyrus roll (P. Amherst 63) discovered in the late 19th century at Luxor (ancient Thebes). It took more than 120 years to decipher the text. It was discovered that Egyptian Demotic script had been used to write Aramaic text! The translation turned out to include three Israelite psalms written about 400BC. This is an example of "reformed Egyptian" used by Israelites and discovered by non-Mormons!! In the March 2019 edition of "Discover Magazine" on page 26, is an article "A Lost World Emerges." The author is Nathaniel Scharping. The article is about a 2016 LIDAR scanning of about 800 square miles around Tikal in northern Guatemala. This is just a fraction of the former Maya territory which spanned thousands of square miles, yet the LIDAR revealed some 60,000 previously unknown structures. So far, the group, led by archaeologist Thomas Garrison, has uncovered other unknown city-states near Tikal with limestone roads running from city to city. Unexpectedly, the group found Maya structures built expressly for defensive warfare. These include ditches, moats, ramparts, high walls, fortresses, and a series of watch towers. Many of these surround or are near the major cities. In one place the group uncovered a mound of sling stones which could have been potential ammo from over 1,000 years ago. The findings closely match the fortifications Captain Moroni caused to be built, as described in the Book of Mormon in Alma 49-50.

@astromanofficial

5 жыл бұрын

I'm not seeing the link between a link between a scroll from 400BC (after Lehi's family left Jerusalem) and the supposed "reformed egyptian" that Joseph Smith said was on the golden plates. We even have examples of what 'reformed egyptian' supposedly looked like: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthon_Transcript We already know that the Aztecs were despised by the surrounding tribes because they would kidnap their people to be sacrificed. I'm pretty sure warfare between the Aztecs and the Mayan tribes was fairly normal which would explain all the defensive structures. I think the best way to establish a link between the ancient structures in central america and the Book of Mormon would be to find skeletons with middle eastern DNA. As far as I know the only haplogroup found among the natives of North and South America that resembles those found in the middle east is the X2a haplogroup. The problem with using that as a link is that it is traceable back across the Bering Land bridge and into Siberia and even predates Lehi's time in the Americas by at least 6000 years. kzread.info/dash/bejne/qKKuvK2ofa7ehZs.html

@GaryKColeman

5 жыл бұрын

@@astromanofficial- Moroni described "reformed Egyptian" as Israelites using Egyptian characters to write Hebrew text. Book of Mormon critics have claimed: "There is no such thing as reformed Egyptian." "It has never existed and never will." "Israelites would never use the language of their pagan idolatrous enemies." etc., etc. The BAR article shows that Israelites did write their records using Egyptian characters. It took the collaboration of a Semitic language specialist and two Egyptologists to discover that the Demotic script of P. Amherst 63 had been used to write Aramaic text. Simply stated: It was Israelites using Egyptian characters to write Israelite text. The "Discover" article explains that the threat of warfare in Maya society was more pervasive than archaeologists believed possible. They were surprised that the Maya would go to so much work to create the defensive structures. The main point is that Joseph Smith could not have ever guessed about something that archaeologists are just discovering. Things like defensive warfare or houses and cities made with cement were completely unknown in 1829. I didn't say anything about DNA, but you did. I believe that DNA will neither confirm nor refute the claims made in the Book of Mormon.

@astromanofficial

5 жыл бұрын

@@GaryKColeman The DNA of the Native Americans is one of the most conclusive evidence points against the BoM. I think that dismissing that is just not something that should be done. The BoM only has one reference to 'reformed Egyptian' which is Moroni 9:32. "And now, behold, we have written this record according to our knowledge, in the characters which are called among us the reformed Egyptian, being handed down and altered by us, according to our manner of speech." This makes it sound like reformed Egyptian is something the descendents of Lehi developed over a long time so I'm still having trouble making the connection between one scroll from 400BC and the language Joseph said was on the plates and the examples of it on the Anthon transcript. The evidence of plagiarism from multiple sources, all available to Joseph, including translation errors from the 1769 KJV Bible, is the most conclusive evidence against the BoM. I've only ever seen apologists dismiss the evidence of plagiarism as a non-issue like you did with the DNA evidence. That on top of Joseph's constant patterns of selfish behavior as well as the mistranslations of the Book of Abraham and the Kinderhook plates is more than enough evidence to debunk Joseph and Mormonism. There is just too much evidence stacked against the BoM and the Church and not enough (barely some scraps, nothing conclusive or definite) to support it.

@GaryKColeman

5 жыл бұрын

@@astromanofficial 1 Nephi 1:2 "Yea I make a record in the language of my father, which consists of the learning of the Jews and the language of the Egyptians." Nephi was the first to use "the language of the Egyptians." It was repeated by King Benjamin in Mosiah 1:4. One DNA used to condemn the Book of Mormon is mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA). Only women pass mtDNA to their children. All of us inherited our mtDNA from our mothers. The other genetic marker being used is the Y-chromosome (Y-chr), which is passed by men to their sons. Tom Murphy, Simon Southerton, and others claim the Book of Mormon is false because neither Middle East mtDNA nor Y-chr has been found among the American Indians. Here are a few reasons for that. Lehi and his family of no more than 40 people sailed into an area already populated by tens of thousands of people. They intermarried with the natives and their mtDNA and Y-chr disappeared within a few generations. Another reason would be that after the arrival of Europeans in 1492, the native population was drastically reduced by warfare and disease. In the National Geographic video "America Before Columbus," Professor Andrew Isenburg of Temple University said that upwards of 90% of the Indians died within 50 years. Entire villages and tribes vanished. That means that all DNA tests performed today would be on the descendants of the 10 or 20 percent who survived. That is not a very accurate sampling. Also, many of the tribes have refused to participate in any genetic database tests. My last reason is the unreliability of mtDNA and Y-chr. Our second daughter married a man whose paternal line is Danish and whose maternal line is Japanese. They have a daughter and two sons. All three children have the mtDNA of their mother, which is my wife's mtDNA, which is from Sweden. The boys have their father's Y-chr, which is from Denmark. Using the same tests that Murphy and Southerton cite to support their argument, one can prove that those children have Swedish ancestry, and that the boys have Danish ancestry. But NO ONE can prove that they also have Japanese ancestry. If those tests cannot find any mtDNA from their Japanese grandmother, who is alive, how reliable are those tests in finding Israelite mtDNA or Y-chr from 2,600 years ago? The lack of Japanese mtDNA in those children DOES NOT mean that they are not part Japanese. The lack of Israelite mtDNA or Y-chr in the surviving American Indians DOES NOT disprove the Book of Mormon. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Knowing the history of nephites and lamanites i could say book of mormon is true

@2326038

5 жыл бұрын

You could say that but it wouldn't be true. " nephites and lamanites"? LOL

oh my god chiasmus!!!!???!!! It must be true!!!!

@grandpaje4734

5 жыл бұрын

Oh yes, you have to dismiss that. Or you are a Mormon. Your action against the Book of Mormon prove, that the Book of Mormon is true!

Dum dum dum dum dum

We desperately need more evidence for at least the Book of Mormon. This Church is a sinking ship, taking on water on all fronts, and the only thing that can save it is some powerful archeological and/or historical evidence that saves the Book of Mormon. If the book can be saved, then faith can be had in the church while maintaining personal integrity.

@recsporteducation4594

3 жыл бұрын

Why do you say it's sinking? The church has long been the fastest growing church in the world. Even though today that has slowed, it continues to report grows each year; in membership, and in influence. New Temples are going up all the time for example, as well as provide more charitable donations then most others, increasing each year. It would be an easy thing to argue, that the LDS church is currently larger and more influential today, then it was last year, the year before, or any other year prior.

@Man-jf6lz

3 жыл бұрын

@@recsporteducation4594 Membership is at an all time low, a crawl, while the missionary force and the number of overall missions is the greatest it's been. All 1st world countries are in decline in membership. The numbers of growth are coming from 3rd world countries that don't have access to the internet or to discovered church history and many of these places still believe in folk magic/are not critical thinkers. The church used to use membership to show its growth, but now, like you said, they use their wealth and number of temples to try and demonstrate that because membership is collapsing, at least in the 1st world. Their wealth isn't an example of membership, it is an example of hoarding money and investing it in for-profit entities.

@recsporteducation4594

3 жыл бұрын

@@Man-jf6lz Thanks for the clarification of your point. So you're contesting the quality of the membership, not actual growth. I didnt get that from your first statement. You bring up some fair points, and I see no reason to challenge them. But I believe two points of doctrine are worth pointing out, going along with you statement. That is, the gospel has never been extremely popular among any civilization, and so popularity isn't a good measure of its value or success. Biblical history as well as B of M history, and early Christian history, all show that the true religion of Christ was always championed by the meek and poor, the uneducated, the humble and the undesired. As Christ said. My gospel is to exalt the poor. Frankly, if the church was extremely popular, and among those you seem to deem more worthy or qualified, I would question its validity more. Chirst taught of the confounding of the wise and the learned. Catholicism only took off after the corruption of the Christian values and mingling of doctrine with the pagans. Resulting in the mass fracturing of Christian beliefs. It is more natural and expected for things to be the way they are in the church. The learned are more prideful and cut themselves off from the spirit of truth. Spiritual things are understood, spiritually, not intellectually. Those who rely on intellect, or "the arm of flesh", deny the spirit and never know the spirit of truth. They cannot, because they deny the power of God. Drawing close, but having their hearts elsewhere.

@Man-jf6lz

3 жыл бұрын

@@recsporteducation4594 The church has had its cake and eaten to for decades regarding their size. Is it going to spread over the whole earth or isn't it? Is it going to be know and had in every nation to every kindred and tongue, or is it going to remain obscure and rejected like you say is the requirement? The truth is, some things need to be taken on faith and the spirit. But when something can objectively be disproven, and then make that same situation true for 90% of the history and claims and evidence, all honest people are left with is the spirit. Christ himself worked miracles as a sign. He said his apostles would work miracles as signs. The modern church is supposed to work miracles as signs. The plates were showed to witnesses as a sign. On and on. So God himself believes in physical/learned evidence to provide a foundation for faith. Examining our evidence without first concluding the church must be true, will almost always lead a person away from it. It should, because we have nothing to stand on but "feelings". That is why we need more substance to have honest faith on.

@recsporteducation4594

3 жыл бұрын

@@Man-jf6lz cool. But I'm not saying the requirement is rejection. I'm saying popularity isn't a requirement. I'm not sure I understand everything else you are saying, but I have never encountered an argument that disproves the church. I have had my own miracle and revelations. I dont need more. If someone is lacking these things, it is there own doing.

Is he really trying to claim that faith is the evidance he speaks of. What of the faith or evidance of other religions or beliefs. There have been others with many strange convictions as well. Truth can be established by consistent, reliable testing. True moral principles are ideals , even though the might be universal. Truth then is something provable and believed, so that it is personally applied. In short he ignores the testing part of truth.

@recsporteducation4594

3 жыл бұрын

Spiritual things are understood, spiritually...

I’m convinced that Joseph Smith synthesized a lot of sources and then included channeling/autowriting from a spirit. His entire family was into spiritualism and channeling was not uncommon during that time. A lot of start up religions during that same era began because of someone having “revelations” from channeling. With all the other evidence that shows Joseph Smith used other written sources as well, one can easily conclude he did not, nor ever would, pass the Biblical test for being a prophet. He was relaying some kind of message but it’s not one I want anything to do with anymore.

Also look up on your own Evans of Hebrews in ancient America there is solid evidence

He can say whatever he wants but that doesn't make any of it true.

@astromanofficial

6 жыл бұрын

I agree with that assessment.

@thaynerasmussen2083

6 жыл бұрын

Astroman you can say what you want, but that doesn’t mean your unbelief or what you say is true!

@astromanofficial

5 жыл бұрын

Ah, but the difference is I am not making any outrageous truth claims. If we want to know what is real and what is not we must start with the facts. kzread.info/dash/bejne/o5eF1sqymbenZ8Y.html To ignore this link is live in ignorance. "It is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorance." D&C 131:6

@astromanofficial

5 жыл бұрын

@jouxpane All you do is bash on other people. That's not very Christ-like of you. bit.ly/2OtuwkS

@astromanofficial

5 жыл бұрын

@jouxpane it sounds like you may have an addiction to 'feel good' brain chemicals like dopamine and endorphin. It's very much like alcohol or opioid addiction in that people do it because 'it feels good'. Unfortunately it can have severe effects on how you perceive reality. I'm very concerned that you may not be able to see reality as it actually is and rather you choose to only see what you want to see and exclude everything you don't agree with and think that 'the Lord' is just going to explain away the holes that exclusion tears in your perception of reality. It's okay though because reality can be more clearly discerned by simply following the trail of facts and evidence to it's conclusion. This website: Mormonthink.com shows comparisons of opposite perspectives of multiple topics regarded as 'issues with the church'. This website: CESLetter.org outlines a lot of the 'issues with the church' in a concise way. Both of these sources try to remain unbiased.

This guy elder seems like a terrifically nice guy! But the evidence from the 66 book bible and apocryphal texts and many other debatable religious texts would highly disagree with Mormonism. This is becasue any religious historian could tell you that the Bible provides proof for the godhead or the trinity which Mormonism disagrees with. Also the act of temple rites comes from Joseph’s smiths farther who was a freemanson which in reality from a Christian perspective is a form of witchcraft. And the fact that Jospeh smith used a seer stone is a act of scrying which is also used in witchcraft. So let me ask you fellow Mormons a man who’s family and himself does so much witchcraft that is frowned upon and forbidden by Jews Christians and Muslims. How can this man be a true man of god when in addition he did far more polygamy then any figure in the Bible. Also keep in mind he was born AD so polygamy is sin by New Testament standards period. And some of his wives seemed s bit young which is pretty disturbing in my personal view. Also the only person in the Bible to surpass Jospeh smiths polygamy standards is king Solomon which keep in mind was led astray by his many wives. Which pretty much anyone can make the argument about Jospeh smith. In addition his first encounter in the woods has 10 different versions which is obvious proof he lied. And the fact is that native Americans kept records and no where is there a white man showing up before the Vikings or Christopher Columbus. And on top of this I have never heard of solid archeological evidence from a non Mormon source for anything that happened in the Book of Mormon. Plus the Jews kept records of prophets so where is lehi? Also why does the Book of Mormon plagerize the KJV which is a fact. Also he had criminal records for being a treasure hunter using a magical hat which yet again witchcraft again. Also he clearly committed adultury and a variety of sexual sins. On top of that the whole racist thing is always a big question. And anyone could tell you Jesus himself would never agree with even half the acts of Joseph smith. And for these reasons and a multitude of many more I am not a Mormon. Plz do not ask me to read the Book of Mormon I studied it and the Quran and a vairiety of religious texts from all faiths. But if anyone has any non spiritual proof for Mormonism I would love to know. Plus I do value spiritual experiences but all religions have em so they are not that valuable to mathematics or any field of history and science. Have a great day and keep debating!

We can test if the holy ghost is a thing and if it does infact give us true revelation. If the holy ghost was real then everyone would be told the samething but yet everyone gets different feelings. Therefore it cant be true.

@CJ-wj5ol

4 жыл бұрын

I myself made that question although in a completely different way "how may I know the difference between my feelings and the holy ghost", so I prayed and asked to know if this things were true, not 1 hour latter missionaries came to my door, I thought it was a coincidence so I did not took it seriously, then 3 months later, doubting the very existence of god, I asked if at least god was real and not even 11 minutes passed and I receive a call from a member of the church telling me that they missed me in church because I was inactive for at least 2 years, I thought that it was God trying to answer me, but I was not sure. I decided to go to church that next Sunday and I felt peace yet it was not enough for me to tell that what they were saying was true since I have felt peace in other places as well, but that day I hear that in order to receive revelation we must "pray, believing that we will receive, with sincerity and keeping God's commandments and I also hear about the power of fasting and praying" so I did and I received a testimony that God is alive and that he worries about me, and just at that moment I looked at a note on the table that I wrote for myself a long time ago "how may I know the difference between my feelings and the holy ghost", I know that the holy ghost does not gives you fear about things but peace and it testifies about God, yet at the end of the day is faith=keeping God's commandments , that gives us a real testimony about him.

@kirkprior4367

4 жыл бұрын

@@CJ-wj5ol that was a long read but what I got from that was you have clearly not read the bible or the book of mormon...... Joseph smith made a lot of prophecies and none came true. So read deuteronomy 18:15-22. Then grab that blue book of mormon (which is a rip off of hebrews view) and read 3rd nephie 11:40-41. They have added and changed the book of mormon so much. Plan of salvation is not in the book of mormon!!! The 3 levels of heaven is not in the book of mormon. And Joseph smith first edition book of mormon 1830 writes as god, jesus and holy ghost being 1. Later changed in 1836-38 to be changed. And if you ever get bord read his sermons he gave. So yeah do some research.

@stevetobler9823

4 жыл бұрын

Really only a handful of people , relatively speaking, understand quantum physics, electricity, etc.etc. that does not mean it is bogus. Just means they rest of us have not paid they price to understand those things.

@stevetobler9823

4 жыл бұрын

@@kirkprior4367 you clearly are quoting someone else. You have not read his sermons

@kirkprior4367

4 жыл бұрын

@@stevetobler9823 this is through my own research, I am not "quoting". Maybe paraphrasing, as many have proprobably pointed this out before me. I have read many of his sermons. Record keeping of Joseph smith was well done and you can read most of all his teachings. Believe it or not I was excommunicated from my church a few years ago bring all this up to my bishop and he got upset. None of what I said was false. But I'll just put this up here so you can see what his sermons were like. But this is moving away from the "holy ghost debate".

Also you have given no evidence that the laminits are real. "I say it's real therefore its real"? Sorry buddy no evidence.

Use the Bible not the book of mormon... There's no book after the apocalypse.

This poor man. He wasted his life on the teachings of a con-artist.

@51cheeseman

5 жыл бұрын

David VR He knows it’s a fraud.

@stardustgirl2904

5 жыл бұрын

So don't tell me, You know JOSEPH SMITH RIGHT? YOU KNOW HIM PERSONALLY? SO YOU KNOW YOU'RE CLAIMS WITH ALL CERTAINTY YOU'RE CLAIMS ARE TRUE? WOW YOU MUST BE PRETTY OLD THEN!🧓

LOL. What a joke.

@Wooah1

6 жыл бұрын

Haha you're right, the grave dedication joke was good.

@drmichaelshea

6 жыл бұрын

So how does it feel, being blind?

@Wooah1

6 жыл бұрын

I imagine it feels like braille.

@corybritton1804

6 жыл бұрын

The bar for "evidence" and "scholarly activity" in Mormonism is certainly set WAY!!!! LOW!!! Actually it's mostly anadotical undocumented unsubstantiated feelings!! Nothing more than just that!

@drmichaelshea

6 жыл бұрын

Belief in a religious practice or a religious doctrine in a matter of belief, not science. Your statement is trivial. Some people are inspired and stimulated by testimony, and others approach the problem with an attitude of skepticism. You - and probably the majority of others - seem to be one of those. You are entitled to your opinion, but that's what it is and nothing more.

I will now show the greatness of the evidence … and it doesn’t matter who.. or when… or where… for any reason … at any time … at any place … or any evidence … because there is some … and here it is… for which I’m about to tell you … and here it comes … and you will be amazed … because when you here it .. you will know … that it is true … and you will know these things … because they are true … and maybe it’s not so much evidence … but more of a feeling … which is basically the same thing … so really let’s not worry about evidence .. because since when is evidence important… so behold .. the evidence .. which we now know to be true .. is the truth … thank you 🙏