Quelaag you nailed this. You're amazing. With films, narrative actually started further away from literal story "telling" that we saw in books, folklore and big budget modern full features. Silent films not only began with showing stories, but they also were at times far more abstract and harder to break down. It was long into this medium's relatively short history that with development of certain cliches and dialog, that the charm of consumers navigating the journey of a Un Chie Andalou wouldn't hold a candle to a simple hero arc or a love story. Even those beautiful times of a Bergman who tried to tie the old chaotic disorder whilst wielding the more modern means of story telling are long gone. And now we're witnessing this in reverse, games that try to use the whole medium to transcend the narrative dialog into narrative experience in this medium by going all in, are ironically looked at as lacking narrative by the masses who didn't want to watch movies that asked similar for deductions from the consumer. Which is not at all surprising.

@quelaag

Жыл бұрын

Oh yeah exactly! Ingmar Bergman is the GOAT (The Seventh Seal is my favorite)! To add on to this: the type of media we consume (on tv, mainstream movies, etc) likes to stick to a very formulaic structure. When people who are used to this structure are exposed to other forms of narratives, they may have the impression that those stories or the director/writer's voice is bad, inconclusive, "doesn't make sense", "Isn't cohesive". This video is more of a letter for them :) I'm glad you could understand where I was coming from with this!

@rrm1903

Жыл бұрын

@@quelaag look, let's face it, in a capitalist society and its reign of consumerism people can't be bothered to even entertain the idea of chewing what they're being fed as entertainment. You just can't expect the masses to think deep enough, to observe and not just watch; and to top it, to dig in to find beauty is not only a forgotten art, but also first and foremost an "art" in itself. Meaning not everybody can be expected to be capable of it.

@McDudes

Жыл бұрын

@@rrm1903 Also a lot of people who watches movies and TV shows doesn't even watch them in the first place. Often they will spend half the time looking on their phones for example or just not paying attention to the story and characters etc. So I'm not surprised that people are missing the appeal and point of from software's narrative, story telling and so on. Their reactions are probably something like "Oh wait I have to pay attention to the story too and not just the gameplay?"

@CJWproductions

Жыл бұрын

@@rrm1903 nah, that's gatekeeping. Anyone is capable of art and anyone is capable of appreciating art. Though it's true that under our current conditions people often lack the time and/or the energy to do it, and while you didn't say this, people are also trained to reject it in various ways. "The curtains are blue" is something you might have heard before. There's aspects of gender roles in there, as well as class conflict -- art is a luxury, art isn't real work, art is unmanly, men don't waste their time appreciating art, working people don't have time for art, art expresses feelings and men don't have those, etc. The fact is, art is communication. Art brings people together. (And our masters don't want that.)

@abyss9256

Жыл бұрын

Average gow fan vs maxor enjoyer

WOW LOOK AT THAT THUMBNAIL

@blairpreaker

Жыл бұрын

hopscotch deserves an award for this

Let's be fair you guys. Elden Ring has Elden John going for it. Kratos is a cool guy but to expect him to compete with that is just unfair.

@aldousboal4920

Жыл бұрын

Elden John solos

@canadiangopnik7007

Жыл бұрын

don't forget The Lore Man as well

@Urd-Vidan

Жыл бұрын

@@canadiangopnik7007 he just wants to tell lore, man. Why did that hammer guy have to squash him? Tsk.

@jimmietherustle3622

Жыл бұрын

@@Urd-Vidan He won't learn unless you give him a negative rating for it.

@abhirupchatterjee5809

Жыл бұрын

@@aldousboal4920 in ur stupid dreams kidoooo🤓🤓🤡🤡🤡

Finding the corpses of the exiled traders under Leyndell is the most profound moment of gaming for me these past years. To try to reduce or deny its impact just because it wasn't in a pretty cutscene or a character didn't spoonfeed me the narrative is just ridiculous and it shows how low the gaming community has fallen from demanding the use of the medium to its fullest in order to tell an interesting story.

@DemonLordSparda

Жыл бұрын

It's an awful act when you think about it, however like most things in the game we have no idea why it even happened. All we get is that they were accused of heretical beliefs then rounded up and buried underground. Accused by who? What beliefs? Who buried them underground? We don't even know what type of City Leyndell was because we don't meet anyone that lived in it. Devoid of any context or purpose tragic acts lose most of their impact. The Lands Between are impossible to imagine pre shattering, because all we know about are the lands and their armies. It's a wonderful world with incredible lore, but it doesn't give the impression of a world that was lived in. The Lands Between are so impossible to dock at that you need to ask where this nomadic band of traders even came from. There are too many vignettes with not enough information on the origins of anything. It's a crucible of melancholy, and that very well might be the point of it all, but it robs the world of impact. What's another awful event to add to the endless list after all? Just a few things to mull over. How did your tarnished even get to the chapel of anticipation? What are the badlands like that Godfrey went to? What's the rest of the world like? Are the 5 Outer Gods mentioned in the game all vying for control in the Lands Between or are they up to stuff all over the world? How did Albinaurics get through Leyndell to the Lift of Rold in order to use the secret Medallion which leads to the Haligtree. Did everyone at the Haligtree take that one teleporter? Were there any civilian quarters anywhere in the Lands between besides the Windmill villages? Where did the Time Tornado in Farum Azula come from? Where was Farum Azula located when Placidusax was in power? What was Caelid like before the Scarlet Aeonia bloomed? There are simply too many questions that beg answers we don't have for Elden Ring to feel like a complete narrative. Despite everything I do love it, I just get more satisfaction out of fully realized narratives.

@treeko2139

Жыл бұрын

@@DemonLordSparda couldn't have put it better, the melancholy of the worlds Miyazaki creates are truly art forms for all of gaming to look up to, but at its core he leaves way too many unanswered questions to really form a complete picture of the events that took place at least in Elden Ring, and there is no guarantee we'll ever get the answers for these questions which sort of leaves the experience of experiencing this narrative "hollow", and subsequently reduces the impact it needs to have on the audience, the cruel acts that occur in the lands between don't really hold any weight unless given proper context, what happened to the wandering merchants tribe is sad, but are we really supposed to feel sad without all the context in which it happened? Maybe Miyazaki wants us to feel exactly like this, incomplete.

This channel is an art history channel and I love it

@HamsterPants522

Жыл бұрын

If only every channel could be an art history channel.

I think Miyazaki is one of the few game developers who use video games to tell a story and a narrative in a way that is only possible with them. Everything in his games is used as a means to convey story. Whether it's to flesh out the world, the main story of the game or even the community around the games.

elden ring receiving best narrative would be a very positive sign for game narrative as an artistic device, basically telling ppl its ok for games to not be movies

Your videos are amazing, and as one who aspires towards thinking critically (despite adhd derailing my thoughts much of the time), you break the concepts down really well! Please do more about musical narratives! It’s really intriguing and I’d be psyched to hear more

@quelaag

Жыл бұрын

I've struggled with ADHD my whole life, which leaks out into my ramble videos and on my streams, but dont give up skeleton!!!! Soon you will learn how to organize your thoughts for people like us!

@FearedFire

Жыл бұрын

Very big mood. I try to think about the innerworkings of miyzaki's worlds and then a random scene of space jam starts playing on the tv in my head.

thinking "bro what the fuck are you talking about' when NPC's dump arcane dialogue at you is 100% part of my headcanon

@maximilian1588

Жыл бұрын

this line of thinking for non int pcs is basically canon for fromsoft games.

The Father was absolutely traumatizing. I haven’t cried that much during a movie in a long time. I’m far too feeble to watch that movie a second time.

@quelaag

Жыл бұрын

SameSameSameSameSameSameSameSameSameSameSameSameSameSameSameSameSameSameSameSameSameSame

@terriblepie4291

Жыл бұрын

Well that puts it at the top of my list then!

@bigmeatswangin5837

Жыл бұрын

I'm afraid to watch. If Nick Mullen from CumTown said it was rough, it's gotta be pretty oof.

@ebog4841

Жыл бұрын

CURSED FEEBLE ONE!

@lucasgruber8509

Жыл бұрын

@@ebog4841 I am but a lowly undead 😔

Thanks for recommending The Father. I just watched it and ... well, i'm wiping tears. Right now I'm taking care of my mom who is on a very similar path (especially the confusion and lack of awareness). I don't think she'll get nearly as bad as Anthony did here, but it takes everything I have to keep going. I hope countless others watch this film. It is so down to earth it kinda hurts.

@quelaag

Жыл бұрын

Its important that our family members live comfortably. My grandma had both before she passed, but she seemed at peace with her circumstances and would gladly share the same story over and over. It's important to remain kind and patient with the time we have left with our elders. Your mother is very lucky to have you!

@orinlee6123

Жыл бұрын

@@quelaag thanks. I definitely feel the same. I wouldnt be able to live with myself if i left her to her own and something happened.

@orinlee6123

Жыл бұрын

@@quelaag the sign that told me i had to make this sacrifice was that in her early 60s she started getting lost driving to and from my aunts home of over 40yrs that is less than 2 miles away from where we live now. She's 74 now. 🙏🏾

Oh nice! Stoked to be getting more Elden Eing content from you. At this point you could just spend hours talking about just the terrain/landscape and I'd tune in.

Your timing is unreal. I was exploring deeproot depths on a playthrough and got the elden stars incantation and I was thinking about the implications of that and then about how I've seen people talk that astel destroyed this same area and took away its night sky. I just love it that this game takes up my headspace and youre videos are a large part of that. Cant wait to learn more about imagery, art, and elden John.

Great video, you explained all of these points so well. Also a big David Lynch fan here, so I loved that reference! Recognized the Twin Peaks music in the beginning of the video.

Fantastic. Both an informative and entertaining explanation of narrative as both a concept and its applications. Thank you for making this!

I'm new to fromsoft games with Elden Ring, but one thing I loved about it was how it, whether intentionally or not, forced me to search for information and lore, both in-game and outside of it. Some people might think that that is poor game design/narrative, but I think it ultimately adds to the world-building and exploration, just on a different level. I found some really cool content creators from that searching. It felt like it was also engaging me as a person with intellect, rather than handing me everything.

@lordfrogquad

Жыл бұрын

Elden Ring was also my first Soulsbourne game, I felt so immersed in my first journey. I felt like I was the one actually venturing through The Lands Between. Elden Ring holds a special place in my heart because it’s an experience and not everyone will have the same journey

regarding the twin peaks recommendation around 25:50, I could never get into the 4 hour behemoth that guy did, but Maggie Mae Fish did a response to it that I really enjoyed, and was a lot easier to watch for me. Edit: great work keep it up, love your content!

I really like listening to your thoughts 👍 the way you think and put things together is fun and insightful

your editing adds so much to the already great videos

omgs Quelaag!!! So good to see you! I love your vids and always enjoy when you load up whenever you do. I love that you take time for you and take care of you first. It does show in the quality of how you come back and share your passion about the game when you come back. Always a good time when Quelaag has a vid.

Great video, very interesting, learned a lot, very chill too, that thumbnail tho!

It is so good to see you doing what you do best. I hope “real” life is sorting itself out in your favor. You deserve success

This is a fantastic breakdown! I appreciate that you went into depth on what a narrative is, as well as how it can be broken down and told in ways that differ from what people are traditionally used to. I love how you went in-depth about how music is an essential part of From Software storytelling as well, even down to the subtle elements like instruments used and which voices in a choir stand out. From Software games lean heavily on environmental storytelling, and I find that to be far more engaging than a story that's spoon fed to you.

Great videos, also your editing is really charming like 1:27

@quelaag

Жыл бұрын

That is thanks to my editor!!! We have the same sense of humor so I will legit throw 20 mins of raw rambling at them to edit and it turns out perfect. They’re my other brain cell

The way you can explain all of this stuff in such a short period of time it’s amazing

KRATOS VS. ELDEN JOHN IN THE THUMBNAIL IM DEADDDD 😂

Man this is the best breakdown I've seen so far. Great job, your doing important work :)

Some of my favorite tools FromSoft use in their games are the color language of different areas sometimes in subtle ways, other times overtly. Combined with background audio design, architecture, enemy design, placement and even environmental object placement, you get masterful atmosphere in areas like Boletaria with its sickly green color that instantly puts the pressure of a plague-ridden town on your shoulders. Another aspect I also really like isn't just the way enemies are visually striking but also the way they move. Some bosses display their confidence in their smooth and precise motions, attacking in very deliberate ways like Ishin in Sekiro. Other times you get very wild and unrefined motion that communicates an opponent's wild demeanor just as well. It's a perfect marriage of gameplay and story with many varied emotions being conveyed through a variety of attack patterns. These patterns can they recur in other enemies to reinforce a similar idea or inforce a connection, for example, Crucible Knights are all able to use the ground stomp aoe's, an attack that their leader Godfrey/Hoarah Loux is able to use. You can infer the connection without reading any item description, and not only that, figting Crucible Knights helps train the player for eventually facing Godfrey and his ground aoe's.

@quelaag

Жыл бұрын

Ohh “the way in which they move” and body language is a wonderful insight

Your thumbnail fills me with joy and laughter. Thank you.

I love spikimas video essays they are pretty rad

Happy to see a reference to the 5 hour video breaking down Twin Peaks I watched and tying David Lynch to Miyazaki. Never realized the connection before but I see it.

I remember watching an analysis video like 10-11 years ago about Mulholland Dr by Rob Ager that completely changed the way I watch movies or consume media in general. I had already loved that movie for just the surrealist imagery alone, but the way he broke down the movie made me appreciate it on another level. Unfortunately that video has been off of KZread for a long time and I don't even know if he sells it anymore.

I have new found love of the series after watching this video. DS3 was what originally got me into FromSoft games, and I realise now that Narrative is what led me to love that game in the first place. Good video.

This channel has the most insightful analysis of Elden Ring. Love it. You're amazing!

nice viddy, the sleepy dogs really enchanced the presentation

This is invaluable. I do music, humbled by this contribution. I'll go watch the Twin Peaks video and try to put all this to use.

Quelaag when the world ends be like: “I hate it, you hate to see it.”

Once again, another great video. Big ups Quelaag.

Some people use the fallen leaves to tell a story

@davids7646

Жыл бұрын

tch

I keep coming back to this because I wanted to mention i love you braight up Bethesda. Descovering the count of skingrad was a vampire just by picking up on the context clues before his quest e vcen happens made me feel so smart as a kid.

amazing edits

Great video. The only thing I'd contest is that -- in my estimation at least -- writing and literature can definitely be as visual as other media, whether through formatting or through the use of both defining and ambiguous language. As an example from personal experience, I've found that only language can adequately capture the obtuse feelings which can be caused by psychedelics (legal, used for treatment of chronic depression). By using words and sentences with discrete, defined meanings, in sequences which abnormalize those meanings and distort the structure of usual language, I have been far more able to get across the oddity of the experience than my attempts with visual media.

@quelaag

Жыл бұрын

And that works for you! That gets into the "subjective" aspect of art and storytelling! Some are just better at communicating in different mediums than others!

@devildante9

Жыл бұрын

You nailed it, the very same reason Lovectraft works can't be put into film or games.

God I love this channel. You are such a treasure.

Just started the video and that clip of Geoff with the twin peaks track killed me.

Interesting to see comparisons to Lynch and even some Twin Peaks music in the video. I do have to say when I first played a FS game it reminded me of David Lynch. Anyway, so many great takes in this clip. Video game culture definitely has room to mature with regards to art analysis.

I recommend Davi vasc he also does musical reactions of videogame scores and has done a lot of soulsborne but from the perspective of a composure

Absolute banger episode, as usual.

Nice video as always

Very cool video! Would love to see you cover Immortality on your channel. It seems like something you’d really enjoy.

Interesting to hear about the language of the nomadic merchants. I assumed they were probably built on Romani history because that's the closest comparison I personally know anything about. But they weren't! There's something to be said about the barriers to entry. If you don't know the massive historical gap between Mohg's instruments, or if you just can't identify those instruments by their sounds? The effect is lost on you. Same with the nomadic merchants.

Quelaag vid!!!!

I would like to deliver a message of good fortune, for your future! Happy New Year, Quelaag! Your artistic style, storytelling is intoxicating and blends real world history into very plausible visions of what these artists are trying to portray. Your real-life detective skills and your educational background brings excitement to the creative narrative, Well Done! Thanks for sharing your ability to poke fun at yourself and your masterful editing job, on your videos!

Lol before I even watch the video this thumbnail is 12/10 😂😂😂

JESUS CHRIST! The frame at 00:08 when you lifted your arms and there was another pair of arms there freaked me out

Gaming community (but also pop culture in general) really needs you, Queelag. This video essay is beautiful, your mind is beautiful, your way of explaining things (yea, your NARRATIVE style!) is beautiful. Learning to absorb meaning and messages from artists and directors in more diverse ways than linear exposition is really important to increase our own perception and general critical thinking, allowing us to discover new worlds but also new own selves. I am really so glad that you're here.

Ha! Jeff Keleigh (Keelee? Kegel?) staring ominously while Twin Peaks incidental music plays already made this video gold.

I love this editing style lol

I am an English Masters student and this literally is the first thing that's made me understand the difference between plot and story. Lol at me (but also awesome fkn video thank you!)

@quelaag

Жыл бұрын

Omg thank you !!!

great vid queelag, thanks for sharing your wisdom! the editing is great, wonderful production! but needs more alien guy please. PS, what's the background music?

@DeeCalico

Жыл бұрын

The background music is "El Nido Triangle" from the Chrono Cross OST ♡

Do I hear CHRONO CROSS music in the background?! That brought back a wave of nostalgia.

narrative (noun): a spoken or written account of connected events; a story the majority of elden ring's "connected events" are detailed in item descriptions (written account) so i think that fits the definition just fine

the part about fromsoft games appealing to visual artists is so true. i love telling stories in art but whenever I try to put it to into more traditional written narrative form I find it frustrating lol.

Pathologic (classic and 2) is another video game(s) that does an amazing job with narrative as experience.

wow wow I didn't expect this level of analysis

First of all, kudos for the Paramore reference, they're one of the best bands in existence IMHO Secondly, I just wanna say thank you for how educational and informative this and all your videos have been and how well you explain the subject material. These are the sorts of aspects of visual art I wish had been taught in school, but sadly never were in my case for whatever reasons.

@kynos6219

Жыл бұрын

if you like paramore make sure to check out new band pool kids (specifically their self titled album), reminds me a ton of early paramore

@Runie549

Жыл бұрын

Never heard of them, but duly noted. Thanks!

19:20 wow now I feel kinda bad for muting the music to easily hear audio ques in order to beat the bosses easier

I appreciate how you've clarified the differences between key terms like story, plot, and narrative here. How video game storytelling fits within the wider history of storytelling in general is also very interesting to think about, and your application of traditionally "academic" subjects in the arts and letters to the analysis of Miyazaki's work is valuable. I've enjoyed the more concise format of this video. Aligning your microphone with the projection of your voice according to the microphone's polar pattern might help improve the audio quality!

@quelaag

Жыл бұрын

Im moving my set up soon (including my camera) which I hope will help

shit, a Sonic Adventure Battle 2 reference? now I have to subscirbe

You might not need this recommendation at all (idk who you watch or talk with) but a KZreadr named Hawkshaw just recently made a video about Elden ring and Color theory, I know it might sound a little shallow at first blush but it’s actually an incredibly deep and engaging topic! A lot of what he says/concludes aligns with what you’ve said, and I find it interesting how you both follow similar veins of Alchemical Symbolism yet different paths of evidence to come to the same conclusions. Some of what he says is a total revelation to me, incredibly obvious yet somehow missed (like that the original color of Ghostflame was apparently violent instead of black/white) and what the idea of Chaos subtly represents besides extreme Purge-like behavior (such as an unwillingness for individuals to collaborate, thus making Society fundamentally impossible). I think it’s a must watch for another trying to wrap their head around the themes of Elden Ring, and is going to influence a lot of ideas and creators moving forward!

@quelaag

Жыл бұрын

Ive gotten it recommended a jillion times and Id like to watch it! Though I finally figured I solved my own feeling about color - so Im going to wait and upload my own thoughts from my old Colors Video before I visit theirs! :D That way I can go into my video unbiased, then see if it changes!

I so appreciate how you hand us the tools to make our own decisions about these games. I wanted to mention one famous example of non-linear narrative you left out: Rat Ratatouille once said "you're probably wondering how I got here," and movies have not been the same since.

There are actually flies everywhere around Godwyn's corpse. I didn't notice it until I looked closer with the telescope, though. You can hear them too.

@quelaag

Жыл бұрын

So this was a mistake that got lost in translation through editing. I record and my friend edits. I mentioned to them how there is no violin! The rough scratchy violin is in Caelid! not in Deep root. However, they thought I meant "there are no flies in deeproot". Its really silly but this was a really big ask for them to edit! So I didnt bother sending it back for corrections. (We also both got incredibly sick during the making of this video).

@HamsterPants522

Жыл бұрын

@@quelaag That's understandable. Thanks for taking the time to clear that up for me. This video was great btw.

You are extremely eloquent on this issue and that is amazing, but unfortunately I am very distracted by how good the editing is in this video

Or you go with the Final Fantasy rout with a great characters, great story AND great lore at the same time. Final Fantasy 7 for an example has as good lore as the souls games but with the story telling of God of War (even better) and Final Fantasy games has additional study telling with its music too.

quelaag is my favorite teacher

The edit had Rollercoaster Tycoon guests screams when they are on rollercoasters, 10/10.

Particularly enjoyed the use of laura Palmers theme - and somehow twin peaks and miyazaki just seems to match

Incredible!

Your dog's name is Ampersand? Cute! Is that a reference to the band Pinegrove, by chance?

babe wake up new quelaag just dropped

Comment for algorithm gods. Because videos like these deserve it, also did you watch hawkshaws new Video? Its awesome to say the least

Yep, I can definitely see Jerma as an unhinged Souls NPC

I'm in awe that Angelo Badalamenti can make even the Dorito Pope menacing.

You were trying to say Kojima directed games are critical of jingoism in USA media like Top Gun. Edit; bravo, btw!

At the end of the day it really doesn’t matter which wins but Elden Ring is definitely the game made for me/the one I prefer and wholly enjoy more xD

2:06 I like the idea of a king who lusts for power, so he summons a gigantic demon hedgehog with a handgun. I'm betting that's a reference to an earlier FromSoft game or a Sonic fanfic.

Thx for this.

16:02 don't mean to rain on the parade here, but I'm fairly sure that that is Irithyll, not Yharnam, or maybe there's a joke there that completely flew over my head

@quelaag

Жыл бұрын

Nah my editor made a slip up (but also they said to just play it off like its a joke so let's laugh real loud)

@canadiangopnik7007

Жыл бұрын

@@quelaag ahh, I see, *laughs hysterically*

"Heresy is not native to this world, It is but a contrivance - all things can be conjoined" Great words to live by from the mouth of Pope Turtle I

How would you compare the storytelling in Morrowind to Miyazaki's style in the Souls and Elden Ring games? I've never finished any of the Souls games but played thru Elden Ring multiple times. It really had a similar feel of mystery and being forced to fill in the blanks of the Lore instead of being told everything thru an overarching narrative. The characters keep cards close to their chests like most people do in real life. Just my 2 cents.

we dont need no emotions shown on screen, we find them from within we comb through the soul

Wouldn't you be the narrative in elden ring? Your discovery of a new world?

@quelaag

Жыл бұрын

Yes! We’re a part of the ludonarrative! But miyazakis narrative style is one that requires investigation, action, npc dialog, etc!

15:20 Top Gun & Top Gun: Maverick, I think

I love you P. S. Yes basically, narration is only part of the narrative, and narration takes as many forms as arts can shape it.

Fire title!

I want you to be my professor. These lectures rule. Sign me up for Quelaag University!

16:03 ah yes, Yharnam

What was the music playing throughout? It was very lovely

@JHopeless94

Жыл бұрын

It's "The El Nido Triangle" from Chrono Cross. Composed by the legendary Yasunori Mitsuda.

So narrative = the techniques to tell a story?

@quelaag

Жыл бұрын

yep! How it's delivered to the audience. Can be through characters, a narrator, an image, music, placement of items, the setting etc! Each different type of creative medium has different "narrative principles"

Told someone how I love Bloodborne's story once and they were like "What story?!". 🤦🏻‍♂️

I love elden ring open up a conversation about "darksouls style of narrative" on a wider public. Tbh, for over past decade since "modern gaming" term was "invented" dev relaying too much over cinematic style of narrative, not because its easiest to translate and delivered, but its most the award goes to, its like the game award tunneling vision of developer at certain way to some extend, and put the creativity into a box, thats why we had a bunch homogeneus award winner game.