Nuclear neutral. Gives both sides takes, agrees with both, proceeds to end the video with “idk what’s the best” and an outro with half of the words not even enunciated. Pure cinema.

@victorysaber5407

Ай бұрын

first time here? XD

@ii-re9re

Ай бұрын

After 40 minutes hahaha

@planetary-rendez-vous

Ай бұрын

Game journalist material

@timrim9405

Ай бұрын

I would never play a game like this, but some people master the bosses and spend the majority of their time on them. You should consider your situation and how you want to play the game, rather than blindly following some rule.

@somerandomcrab4931

Ай бұрын

thanks for summarizing the video in 2 sentences

everybody is gangsta with their damage calculation until tempest memphis went dbz and summoned a thunder bunshin

@SchifferThe2nd

Ай бұрын

And all those god rolls 43311 and 44111 went to drain.

@orion615

Ай бұрын

Min maxers when they have to actually play the game

@Phantom_fent

Ай бұрын

funny asf comment ngl

@9re9or9

Ай бұрын

That fight is unfair... I gave up on holo 4

@ryoujiarisato7308

Ай бұрын

Bro fuck the mephis clone, the fucking difficulty 6 monkey with that small ass clone that stays hidden behind him so you cant even see the attack coming is the real shit

Its ok guys, I will take one for the team and use 3333

@Lielat

Ай бұрын

LMAO, thanks for the good laugh XD

@mikeharris1929

Ай бұрын

Why I didn't think of that 😅

The decision to use an old photo of tenten hiding his current haircut on the thumbnail hurts my sides 😂😂

@prohanta9360

Ай бұрын

mrpokke tried to save his fellow singaporean dignity 😂

@atlus3669

Ай бұрын

bro needs to shave it off

@therapist2852

Ай бұрын

@@prohanta9360 tenten is singaporean? he lives in america

@prohanta9360

Ай бұрын

@@therapist2852 according mrpokke he's Singaporean, he still can live in us. Gateoo is Chinese and lives in LA

@therapist2852

Ай бұрын

@@prohanta9360 oh i see didnt know pokke said that

Pokke is now fangirling Maygi, Sweetily is in shambles

I love clearing my whole world for 3 costs and the only on-set 3 cost I got has DEF% Mainstat 🙂

@demonicgaminginc.4746

Ай бұрын

Yeah good thing the entire video TenTen made was saying you literally do not need it to be on set or to have good sub stats for it to be better than you on set 4 4 1 1 1.

@xOscarAx

Ай бұрын

@@demonicgaminginc.4746 no he didnt. he said it NEEDS to be on set. it cant be rainbow for it to perform better than a 44111. he just said the substats doesnt matter. in his video he even shows a chart of all the 5 piece combinations. 44111 does more damage than an offset 43311. so for early game its def better to go 44111 until you can get on set 43311. but getting on set is fkin nearly impossible with all the possible different combinations. so smack is right, its way better to just go 441 early until you can go 433

@dm3124ab

Ай бұрын

We have 4 free onset echoes with current events, that covers 2 main dps (early game this helps with the 2 clearable tower sides), and respectfully you should grind the 3 costs first vs the 4 costs​ so 44111 is not better early game @xOscarAx

@xOscarAx

Ай бұрын

@dm3124ab I'm not even disagreeing with that. I literally said go 44111 until you can get 43311. I didn't say to not farm 3s. But 3s are limited and are harder to get than 4s. 4 can be infinitely farmed, drop at a faster pace and easier to get main Stat. My argument with the guy above was that he said it can be OFFSET which isn't true.

@joaomarcoscosta4647

Ай бұрын

@@xOscarAx You are not entirely wrong, but... Echo evolution materials are much more scarce than the echoes themselves, and trying to get a half-decent crit piece still takes some time. Do you really want to invest into two pieces you have no intention of keeping? (I mean, in case of teh ATK% piece it's not so bad, since you will get a bunch of these naturally and you can just ditch whatever rolls worse, but... Generally speaking, you will want to equip a specific boss echo in the frist slot. So the second boss farmed is kind of a waste of time and resources no matter how well it rolls, unless you are okayt with either... For example... Getting a good Crownless may take a while, but even if it rolls well, are you really gonna use it as your 4-piece instead of Dreamless? Same thing is kinda true for Bell-borne / Heron. I mean, the Bell-borne echo itself is really good, but most team comps will tun a Bell-born on whatever character is using the rejuveneting glow set, so building a moonlit cloud character turtle is kinda redundant. Though at least in this case you are just wasting your upgrading resources instead of your time, since you will likely have a few spare turtles anyway if ou are farming rejuvenating glow. Thunder set is the only one with a bit more leway, I think. Anyway, my point is, I'm not 100% sure it's worth the trouble to farm and rase a 4-cost echo you are 100% going to throw away later.

I hope that devs would increase the elemental main stat drops on the 3cost echos aligned to their elements rather than just every elemental stat having the same % drop.

@dm3124ab

Ай бұрын

No chance happening

@prohanta9360

Ай бұрын

They should fix the tunning cost and return first. It's really expensive. We can have 1000 3 costs elemental dmg we want but when substats go trash, the time we feed it to new one, the tunning mats returned is small where the stamina used to farm it too big

@JMike-bq6rl

Ай бұрын

I really need those Energy Regen pieces

The point of the 44111 vs 43311 is that getting 2 crit rate and 3 atk is way easier then getting 2 elemental dmg bônus, it's very common for me to kill every single elite for havoc/fusion set and not get a single havoc/fusion dmg bônus

@Tiasung

Ай бұрын

Combined with substats being very powerful and they are much easier to reroll on 4-cost. And we are very reliant on substats for stuff like crit and energy regen and just overall damage.

@aura7342

Ай бұрын

Isn't this line of thinking kinda outdated? Sure 4 costs may still be better. But it's not so much better than 3 costs with the fact that events now basically give echo selectors to force you to farm 44111

@Ophanim1000

Ай бұрын

44111 Is also easier and quicker to farm good substats and the extra hp stops you getting 1 shotted

@AnimeRPGgame

Ай бұрын

can u use havoc/fusion on chixia? does havoc work for her? I thought only fusion for fusion type ?

@strykeralpha9650

Ай бұрын

@@AnimeRPGgame she only does fusion, havoc dmg will have no effect on her

Pokke watching a vid about the 44111 vs 43311 but constatly getting annoyed by how smack rolls his echo is genuinely hilarious

I manage 2 accounts (one not mine), my farming pattern for one is 43311 and other with 44111. 8 days of farming, I finally got a decent 43311 Rover while the other account with 44111 already built 3 characters. The 44111 account clears objectives twice as fast. Now that I'm close to level40, I'm starting to transition to 43311 with my 44111 account by dividing the two 4costs and 1costs between 2 characters. Just take note that the 44111 is not the final build and would transition to 43311 and that the other echoes from the 44111 build can be used for other characters as well when you transition. But, time-wise and resource-wise (if you would want to build more than 3 characters), 44111 is the best FOR NOW. If you know what you're doing, farming 44111 earlier so that your characters can clear monsters and objectives easily is better at this point in time, when majority of us isn't level40 and the echo quality drop is 50/50.

@plooop7543

Ай бұрын

This is pretty much smacks point. Others argument that off set element dmg% is better missed the point that the dmg increase is not worth for the resources that will be spent, as the 44111 or 4431 i use can be transferred and will save more resources when i actually get to 43311 as tuners and exp are the bottleneck

@shiroeikami8467

Ай бұрын

@@plooop7543 1 thing that I would like to add, 44111 required more tuners to reach the level of 43311.

@komikath

Ай бұрын

well i started playing 3 days after release, i'm currently running 43311 on jiyan with 59/234 crit on 1k5 atk, calcharo with 52/221 crit on 1k5 atk and havoc rover 67/182 crit with 1k3 atk. it is not that slower to get 43311. u could say it would take double the time at most. It would be reasonable if u slap 4 and 1 in as a placeholder while grinding for 33. but to have good substat on these 4 and 1 placeholder, that then become inefficient. which then come to tenten argument, shitty 4 and 1 will never be equal to shitty 3 3. hence why u dont go for 44111. also people seems to forget that food buff for crit rate exist, so does atk, while food buff for elemental dmg doesn't. at least not to my knowledge atm

@Clark-wisper-newacctbeenhacked

Ай бұрын

i'm playing 1h per day as i have a job, 2h at most but that's for events and story, so running around the map isn't optimal use of my time. i guess from the two of us, you are a more luckier person when it comes to substats, i guess. all i get are flat and HP/DEF%. elemental dmg bonus can be obtained by outros and as well as buffs from tower of adversity. i havent tried if food can be used inside the tower. my Jiyan can have 130+ Aero% inside the tower with 43311, so i guess that's a diminishing return. i'm doing 44111 solely because if there comes a time where i can do 43311, i can easily take apart the build (4+1) (4+1+1) and easily build another character. that's the more practical way for me to play. Also according to Maygi's video, it's only a 10% difference so... I wouldn't waste my time farming the 3's. i'll eventually shift to 43311 along the way if the 3's drop. but as long as i'm not getting the 3s, i won't force myself farming for those.

@shiroeikami8467

Ай бұрын

@@Clark-wisper-newacctbeenhacked The door at southern of the map, it can give you 2 selector for 3 cost gold. And the event Alloy Smelt also does give you another 2. Assuming this will continue, we'll get 4 every 6 weeks/per patch. The good thing of using this, I barely ever use any tuner for the 3 cost because I don't even have the options to reroll like 4 cost. Which means I can ease up on tacet field where a decent amount of 44111 user already complaining the lack of tuners just to optimized their 41.

Early game -> trying to get through content or farming for perfect stats For sure 44111 will be easier to get starter with and might show even better performance than a 43311(sub stats not min-max) More crit hits = more dmg right? no brainer. Theory craft(Taking into account that future releases we can have all the set bonus running a 44111) With all 5 echoes on god substats Crit rate value can be matched at 79.5% for 44111 and 43311 1. 44111 --> 1crit rate 1 crit damage 2. 43311 --> 1 crit rate substats not taken into account (3 slots left) 1. Basic ATK DMG Bonus 2. Heavy Attack DMG Bonus 3. Resonance Skill DMG Bonus 4. Resonance Liberation DMG Bonus 5. ATK% Difference just based on **Echoes + Character base crit value** Crit rate weapon not accounted(in progress to find the optimal set up and gets a lot more complicated with additional substats, crit rate will have to go). 44111 --> + ATK 18% more, + Crit dmg 44% 43311 --> + 60% elemental dmg 60% elemental dmg >>>18% ATK 44% crit dmg if running 44111 Crit rate is not at 100% so it the extra 44% Crit dmg worth it?(max crit rate 101.5% if both echo(4) runs on Crit Rate) i would definitely prefer a 44111 setup right now, while farming and saving for all the echoes for 43311. The numbers and returns are just saying 44111 is easier to get and sufficient at this phase of the game. Easier to hit higher crit rates, but end game def a 43311

The kicker here....is that everybody is correct. It's just that TenTen is arguing strictly for endgame stats, while Gacha is arguing for progression.

@justcrap3703

Ай бұрын

And Tenten is too dumb to understand that. He should stick to Math. Outside of Math, he's a fool.

@rafaelbittencourtmiranda4338

Ай бұрын

I thought 1010 argument was that a full 5 set 44111 is worse than a 43311 at 2 set with rainbow dmg pieces in the early game.

@Axterix13

Ай бұрын

I don't think Gacha is correct, though, even for progression. The 3 cost drops give your damage type %, and that applies 100% of the time. As opposed to crit, where you need/want both crit rate and crit dmg. So, just from a "good enough for now" standpoint, I'd rather just get a 3 cost one of the right type, up it to 15 or 20, but only unlock substats if they're going good. Furthermore, early in the game, you will want to farm thing other than echo xp, to up your characters, meaning you have limited echo xp. Then cosnider that the better of the two four cost drops you'd be using anyway. Added to that, there's the assumption that you're farming for just one character, that the number of 3 cost droppers matters. But you can farm for multiple characters, so there really isn't a shortage of mobs to kill. You will likely have a bit more travel time for the 3 cost mob droppers, but this is offset by the fact that you will a) likely kill other 3 cost droppers along the way and b) get 1 cost droppers as well. And, yes, it may take a few days for a 3 cost DMG of the right type to drop, but it isn't like echos stats even really matter that much at that point. But that said, "does it matter?" I'd say applies to both. This bit where you don't have the right DMG on a 3 cost one is going to a small amount of time for a new player. And those crit pieces on the 4 cost ones will be ones you'll want for characters later regardless. So long term, it is a non-factor. Oh, and one more factor I'd like to add as well, that has been the case for me personally... using the loot mapper while going around after those 3 cost droppers has led to me finding a bunch of chests. As well as spotting various other things like time trials and such or the "talking with animals" quests while just running around. So if you don't use an interactive map for that sort of thing, there's that benefit to running around the world as well. I do think Kuro should change the drop rates for those damage type focused 3 cost artifact sets, though. The right type should drop more than the wrong ones.

@jvt22

Ай бұрын

lol what gacha still wrong. 1010 showed that even if you go with 0 sets, the 43311 is still better,that means technically 43311 is actually better for progression bcuz u dont have to pay attention to set bonuses.

@luckywizard_

Ай бұрын

⁠@@Axterix13Cool essay, too bad his argument is, “It’s easier to obtain and requires less investment” and not “It does more damage”. No one’s denying it does more damage, you guys aren’t even paying attention to what smack’s argument was. The main targeted demographic of theory crafters are casual players who don’t have the time nor resources to endlessly grind, Smack is giving them the option that provides the best value for their time.

I agree with gacha smack to some extent especially when he said “FOR NOW” but i also agree with 43311 and this is the setup I am using now. The difference is that.. people like me do not have time to grind echo more than 30-1 hour daily. My 43311 sucks btw. So 44111 is definitely an option for the sake of good time management balancing work day and game day life 😂 Edited: I sub because of this video!

I believe Tenten was a little unclear about it but basically 4 3 3 1 1 is always better under the assumption that the 3 3 can be of any possible set and that makes is way way easier getting % in the right elemental damage. This means that a 4 3 3 1 1 that has only the 2part bonus is better than 4 4 1 1 1 that has the 5part bonus. Just look at his damage diagram. The only time 4 3 3 1 1 is worse is if you have no set bonus at all on it but that will never happen as it is needed for both cases...

@gavinjang7568

Ай бұрын

That graph is for a 2 piece/2 piece set. Meaning at least one of those electro damage pieces would need to be on one of the two sets for it to work. And as the investment increases, the 43311(2/2) and the 44111(5) become about the same level of power. But since it's easier to farm 44111, the chances are you will reach that higher level faster. And in the third video, maygi brings up how the difference is just 10%(no substats) when the character is in their team and eventually just becomes a 4% difference(midroll stats) at endgame. And I'll be honest, being able to use the enhanced drop for bosses(18% to 80% 5star drop rate) instead of needing to farm elites(6% to 10% 5 star drop rate) is pretty worth the 4-10% difference in damage.

Been clearing the map of all electro 3s since I hit purple and have gotten 1 purple flautist with electro. Got a dog roll too. Decided to switch to 4/4/1/1/1 since I was pulling for Yinlin anyway and she could inherit the 4 when I finally nab the 3s. (Then they moved up her release.)

Correction: in the 28:30... that's not diminishing returns. Atk% will add the same amount of raw damage, regardless of DMG. That's flat returns, neither increasing nor decreasing. What happens instead is that you get increasing returns on the other stat. With every point of attack, DMG benefits more. With every point of DMG, atk benefits more. Note that tenten knows this difference, but uses it incorrectly because it is "easier to understand"... despite it being easy to explain regardless. You don't pay more and more for the construction material. They offer you a bigger and bigger discount on the other.

Havoc/Electro mains: 43311 VS 44111 meanwhile other elements: "I am become Death, destroyer of all worlds"

a new pokke video time to set my playback speed to .75 and give it a watch

what i can understand from this is by using 44111, you have access to double crit stat 43311 is more like a balance or should i say default build you can have a crit stat, double 3 for element damage or energy regen the end result for me is 43311 is more comfortable for me

If smack can complete content in this game with these takes and these substats, it’s a much easier game than everyone seems to think lol

43311 is objectively better ,44111 is easier to farm so you should start on 44111 and work towards good 3 costs

@Wolfyyy

Ай бұрын

Easier to farm is an understatement... 3 costs echos are the hardest to get in the game right now.

@Jaguarfan928

Ай бұрын

⁠@@WolfyyyWe have like 4 3 star echo selectors and as far as I know even without Crit substats the 43311 deals similar dps to a 44111

@johnsaker1

Ай бұрын

@@Wolfyyy True but a decent 3 cost is better than your best 4 cost

@Wolfyyy

Ай бұрын

@@johnsaker1 NO ONE is arguing that... If you can find even one 3 cost echo you need there is... While 4 costs boss echos you can farm them SO much that you are going to fill your inventory with them before you get "a decent 3 cost" and that's the problem. On top of that it's 10 % damage difference at best... And if you think about it you are realistically never going to do the same fight exactly the same because of boss random attack patterns, the parry dodge gameplay.. so the 10% is going to be even less of a factor.

@mostpolitebot1464

Ай бұрын

@@johnsaker1 so suck up a garbage build until that 3 cost drop cause 44111 is a scam? thanks

Classic case of two sides talking at each other and not to each other. One talking about feasibility of getting decent echos now, the other side talking about how its a worse option in stats. Cinema

35:04 he was not prepared for this amount of math lol

I'm glad I found mrpokke through wuwa and even more glad we're both singaporean

Not sure if I even agree with tenten, but I think a a lot of ppl are missing his statement that 43311 is better even without the set bonus, meaning you can prob use ANY dmg% you find which might make it as easy to farm as 44111, aka he’s saying it’s bad both early game AND end game Idk the math myself tho lol

@aryosheva8204

Ай бұрын

but leveling up off piece in wuwa is more similar with hsr. off pieces are unusable. but well, just play however you want lol. 44111 on set or 43311 off set or 43311 on set. in the end you deal lot of damage since we are still in mid game.

@Kanzaki415

Ай бұрын

The line for 44111 5 set (black) is higher than 43311 no set (orange) in tentens own graph lol. As tectone mentioned, he disproves his own statement with his own data lol

@justinmplayz8809

Ай бұрын

​​@@Kanzaki415there are only 2 3-costs which still makes it a 2-set (the 4-1-1) instead of a no set

The way i got most of my elemental dmg on the correct set pieces is actually to use the converter. Take 5 pieces that you farmed that rolled something you don't want and convert them into a random echo. Now this is obviously not going to be any guarantee that you get anything useful, but considering how many times you're going to do this if you farmed a fair bit of echoes convert all those useless pieces and chances are you will get something useful.

If I would have a dollar every single time Gacha Smack started a little kerfuffle with Singaporeans, I'd have 0 dollars since he didn't started any of it, just responded and defended. Also, Gacha Smack's video title stated "Why 44111 Is Better Than 43311 Builds In Wuthering Waves RIGHT NOW", which means it is only a temporary fix. In the near future, we would have a better farming pattern when we got into a higher level but for now, 44111 is better time-wise (IF you are not yet lv40) because the extra 4cost and other 1cost can be transferred to another unit in the future, so it's not a waste at all.

@9hjuicy

Ай бұрын

Yeah but when u farm cost1, ur also getting cost3, even if not on set. I think what tenten is trying to say is that casuals who do not have the time to farm cost4 over and over (my friend got shafted back to back without any crit crownless in like an hour) then u can just use off-set cost3 with 0 substay since u wont have to farm for 2 crit rate cost4 anymore. When u do quizzes on tge map, ur gonna kill mobs and get cost1 and cost3, but some might not have the time to farm cost4 and wait 2 mins everytime (yes my friend doesnt care about the pity system cuz he cba :) ) I think it is all about how we define "casual" tbh.

@hachiman205

Ай бұрын

alr bro hop off of his banana

@Guns-R-Us_

Ай бұрын

problem is that 44111 is not better even right now. You're gonna tell me that a peanut butter and jelly sandwich is better than a steak dinner at a fancy restaurant because the former is more accessible? That a Nissan Altima is better than a Ferrari because more people have access to one? More practical is the term you two clowns are looking for, but I forgot, that's not good clickbait

@Safekeep23

Ай бұрын

@@Guns-R-Us_ Maygi's video sums it up. 10% difference. If that 10% is the peanut butter and steak difference for you, then be my guest.

SmackDaddy : 43311 is better than 44111 but 44111 is easier to get 1010 : 43311 is better than 44111. I will ignore that 44111 is easier to get and anyone using 44111 should be ashamed of themselves. Bruh

@nangirb1

Ай бұрын

that's not new from him tbh. i still remember the yoimiya drama hahaha

@ZakuZuko

Ай бұрын

Lol pretty much.

@ArsevensX

Ай бұрын

Exactly.

@ittehitteh9322

Ай бұрын

43311 is better even if YOU DONT CRIT AT ALL. just use the 4* versions. all these streamers keep telling to you not use 4* is capping

@shevek5185

Ай бұрын

Even with worse crit ratio 43311 is still better

The whales trying to chime in on budget discussions like they have any insight or understanding of the topic is hilarious to me 😂

@DoggyP00

Ай бұрын

They obviously do. They obviously also have a much better understanding than f2p players for obvious reasons.

@Jaguarfan928

Ай бұрын

Of course they do these guys are the one spending money if they say resources are drying up way too fast despite them spending money. Then what about us F2P who don’t spend money.

@Tiasung

Ай бұрын

@@DoggyP00 They also have a very biased pov and what are good stats, reasonable stats to aim for etc for budget/casual players. Being more hardcore doesnt automatically equate to a better perspective.

@justcrap3703

Ай бұрын

@@Jaguarfan928 Stupid take.

@Jaguarfan928

Ай бұрын

@@justcrap3703 Explain why it is a stupid take? I myself have reached UL41 as a F2P and the materials required to ascend and level up your individual characters are insane considering you use 120 energy to ascend a single characters level cap from 60-70. And then being Echo system is also terrible considering we have no way to convert the blue and purple tuners for the gold one’s or how before the whales or hardcore complained about the exp you get from scrapping echoes or doing tacet fields you used to only get a 30% refund and only a 10% increase from echo experience from tacet fields and considering how expensive it is to level a single echo. Also Tenten is right 43311 no substats+off set is a better build than 44111 with substats + on set in any scenario he already proved it via gameplay.

It looks like the second graph in the last part only calculated substats for one set instead of both, unless I missed something. She also said 7% instead of 9% on the first graph, which is minor but part of why I suspect the error in the second graph.

43311 and 44111 is basically the same as rainbow/set bonus in Star Rail. The damage difference between the two becomes smaller the better the sub stats are on rainbow. Rainbow is infinitely easier to build and is weaker but not significantly so (especially for most set bonuses in the game)

interesting vid

aight, this is my hot take. I'd personally would just recommend people to go with 4-3-3-1-1 than 4-4-1-1-1. just be patient with ur gear acquisition. its like yea, u can get impatient and hastily get gears but, just like gacha pulls, your upgrade mats is a real thing. haha. ur returns on min maxing for "perfect" stats when u consume other echos is pretty rough. + it can take up a lot of ur coins + the unbinding mats to get the sub stats.. if ur excuse is that its easier to get the cost 4, then imma just give ya the reality check that, its always easy to get the cost 3. even if it takes more time, just farm the echo. Heck, u can do a main search for the echo u need and pretty much detect them, then after u finish them up, just move onto a friend's world.

1:25 lol pokke: I will give you the right answer but lets listen to this nice gentleman first

next video.. how to level echos and what u should save and bin

To put the 4% or 10% and such total damage increase from Echo combos in perspective, what's the approximate % total damage increase from a single crit substat in comparison? I think with that, we could better quantify the value of 4-cost Echoes being easier to farm than 3-costs.

I think the only way 43311 is worth it is when you get custom selection especially in the early game. Now there is an event you can get two of 3 cost echoes of your chose, plus illusive realm you can get 2 which is in total 4. But also consider that you need to gwt really lucky to roll good substats too...

Everyone gets 3, 3 cost echo selectors with matching main stat from the 2 current events. So f2p you have the ability to build 1 dps with all matching stats. So choose your best dps to do that. Plus more coming in the mail soon. At the launch of the game you can focus on atk and element dmg

You can run 4-4-1-1-1 on Moonlit Energy Set as well, Bell Born and Heron have that one as a potential 4 cost

You can get 2 onset 3 Cost echo selectors on suzume door. I forget if they reset monthly or weekly

Am I stupid or can you not just run for example 2 inferno riders for fire set or is it not allowed to have 2of the same echoes?

28:00 now remember that box has a few more dimensions than just 3

I spent 2 or 3 days farming for ER on the cloud set, only got it on 4 stars, so I'm holding on for the farming because fuck that. Also if events are gonna give us 2 selectable echo vouchers we're pretty much set, we're not gonna get characters faster than we get events

Maygi's take is the only one that matters here tbh. Don't know why everyone at their throats about smack and tenten. they have 2 different arguments. I would just use selectors on the units that can't run 4/4/1/1/1 until min-max time, which personally as a casual, will not happen.

hey, i have a question regarding echo. Recently I got to UL 32 and my data bank is at lvl 8 only cuz i didnt farm much in low UL. I got a four star echo that i did not get before naturaly there are many unclaimed echoes in my world that i never encountered. i am a casual player and didnt got the time to farm much in he early game. But when i saw that i got the 4 star echo i saw my data bank and noticed it only gave me 15 exp just. the 10 exp from 2 and 3 star rarity is still missing and i cannot get 2 star echo anymore. so , my question is did i made a grave mistake by not getting echoes in the early game?? please do tell me

the bigger issue imo are echo exp and tuners. it don't matter how much relevant 44111 or 43311 pieces you have if you can't level & tune them

MR POKKE NEUTRAL KING 🗣🗣

its not just the elemental damage bonus on 3s are hard also the fckng energy regen on the set is phenomenal

I guess weapon will make a big part of it as well. If you have crit rate or damage weapon, then 44111 to sort crit out may be better

Was farming for electro 3* but keep getting fusion, but not complaining since I will roll for changli anyway😂

This take was so neutral I sounded the beige alert. If I don't make it, tell my wife I said "Hello"

TLDR; 4-4-1-1-1 is easier to farm but lower damage but 4-3-3-1-1 is significantly harder to farm but more damage

Calling 44111 is a bit half-baked when he didnt even consider buffs from teammates and dmg bonus buffs in substats.

I only use 44111 on my havoc MC until I got the elite echo with good crit substats. It could took a couple hours, days, weeks depend on your luck. I think running 44111 is also better for your secondary/newly obtain characters as farming those elite echo and roll crit substats is difficult. running full 43311 is too expensive right now.

in game test is hard cuz u need the same substats on both scenarios

Tenten actually made another with good substat 44111 vs 4311 with no substat on 3 echo and dmg wise was pretty close

@kieragard

Ай бұрын

It's a fifteen to twenty percent difference. This is actually huge especially as the numbers keep climbing because buffs will multiply on top of that.

@orion615

Ай бұрын

Yeah, on a character that doesn't even have a 44111 set, why not just do havoc rover everybody has her.

@shin-ok8nk

Ай бұрын

@orion615 havoc rover has the best field to grind I myself probably gotten 6 maybe more 3 cost havoc dmg pieces

@justcrap3703

Ай бұрын

The fact that TENTEN still focuses on the DMG shows he still misses the point. No one is REFUTING that 43311 gives better damage. GachaSmack's point is you can farm 44111 for FREE without actually feeling the loss of damage (unless you're a math freak) for not using 43311. Holy smokes you guys are so dense.

@kieragard

Ай бұрын

@@justcrap3703 you can also farm 43311 for free and notice the improved damage.

I ain't farming the 3 cost pieces on the daily but I do farm them once or twice a week. And sometimes that is enough to get a 43311 set that's better than the 44111, sometimes it isn't. My calcharo has a better 43311 rn but my Yinlin definitely doesn't. I might get the motivation to farm those 3 cost echoes on the weekend for her.

I'm just here enjoying the debate as I have no stakes in the game. I have one set and can't level up any more echos anyway so none of this matters to me

I'm leaning to use 44111 and later when my chars are lvl maxed, etc if I could get my hand on a good 3, later I will change to 43311. Both sides has good arguement in my opinion.

Tenten missed the whole fucking point of Smack's video lol

@mazethemercenary

Ай бұрын

Because autism.

@BaschBarrage

Ай бұрын

weII what can we expect from gacha pIayers as a whoIe, most of em have roomtemp lQ and love toCope, thats why CC Iike these doin the best to makeDrama over evrything because most of the audiences of gachas are roomtemp lQ :)

@fr3941

Ай бұрын

Not really? He made a whole new video showing that even without using a full loadout 4311 is slightly slower than 44111 lol.

@hoho-pf2bs

Ай бұрын

Yeh but 3 cost with the same elem and the same elem main is so fucking hard to get

@airloulmcy6620

Ай бұрын

The point of Gacha Smack doesn't really make sense anyway. Because think about it. Getting a good 44111 set means farming bosses on repeat like crazy which Gacha Smack has time to do. Smack is not a casual player at all. Spending 10-20 min a day killing 3 cost echoes is a lot more casual to do and once you get your 3 cost echo whatever its substats it is just objectively better to use it.

it's not even 1 month that wuwa released and the debate for progression and endgame min max is already out there just imagine what endgame gonna look like in couple months after this lmao

I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding between Tenten and Gachasmack. Gachasmack IS ONLY referring to 44111 5-piece set bonus. Tenten IS ONLY referring to 44111 with 2+2 or no set bonus. I think 5-set 44111 is viable (because complete 5 set is 50% dmg bonus which is almost as much as 60% total mainstate value between both 3-cost pieces), but Tenten has a short video that proves that if you have 2+2 or no setbonus, a single 3 piece (missing one piece) will out DPS a 44111. So imho, unless you are electro or havoc, don't even consider 44111. If you are electro or havoc, you can consider it because eventually if you run another character the extra 4-cost piece.

@hipunpun

Ай бұрын

Yeah, it's an ease of acquisition vs optimal build argument It does feel as if they are addressing different concerns

If you need 2x mainstat crit rate to push you over 70% crate when you already have 230% cdamage, then it is always worth it, if you otherwise would sit at below 50% crate with the same amount of cdamage. The more cdamage you have -> the more crit rate you need, otherwise all cdamage is worthless.

38:45 It was bizarre how I thought that the video in background randomly started playing on 2x speed

411 is transferable assuming that you get crit rates crit DMG on those 3, is more than enough to replace one 4cost with critrate mainstat and replace it with 3cost with the right main stat. And so is the remaining 1cost can be replaced with 3cost with right mainstat.

@ittehitteh9322

Ай бұрын

4 costs echoes have unlimited drop rates where you're more likely to fodder them than to 'transfer' them

For me the easiest way as a casual to obtain any set is to get the 4 3cost elemental bonus echos from the 2 events for 2 of my main dps amd not farm any 4 cost or 3 cost at all and run 43311 on both my dps.

Say what you want 44111 has been a big help to my account but to add to that it’s most helpful for resonators that actually have 2 different sets of 4 cost echos for the 5 piece effect

I was not expecting the math fairy. ToF players remember

I've done tests with my characters and from experience 43311 is better than 44111 arround 10%. The thing is that with 44111 it's easier to reach the ideal substats, but on the counterpart it needs a really good team buff plan or really good %dmg substat rolls such as basic attack or skills dmg (which isn't always ideal or easy to achieve). 4331 has a higher damage cap but it's harder to farm and is less team-dependant, giving you a little more room to freestyle and do worst rotations. This is what I tested with my characters, of course Encore C1 makes it a little different since you get extra %damage from it, same as danjin outro and some other passives. That's why I wanted to point that if you do good rotations 44111 equal to 43311 with normal rotations. Anyways in the future we cannot tell which one is gonna become meta since new characters could either come with crit buffs or %dmg buffs, so at the end guys just go for the one you feel more confortable with: * 44111 - Easy to cap, slightly less damage * 43311 - Hard to cap, slightly more damage PD: I personally recommend my less sweaty friends to go for 44111 since there are less main stats to roll and you don't fall into the %damage main stat depression, never getting the right %damage main for the set.

And then there’s me who just hit data level 15 yesterday and have like 2 gold echos that are even viable

Gacha Smack has aura that's why everyone wants to step to bro

1. Less than 1 month into the game and we have this nonsense drama. Game wants you to grind and explore their content, deal with it. 2. Also, there will be future characters that can use those seemingly odd echos that you don't like for the current character. 3. Mastering the combat mechanics and boss patterns allows you to clear the game with mid echos. Skills > Perfect Gears

@moses5113

Ай бұрын

Based

@MikuscarShiro

Ай бұрын

Not even based. Just straight up facts. I would even add the fact that prioritizing skill, unit, and weapon levels would be more important than getting echoes. Tbf, this only applies on spending your waveplates (since you can grind for echoes in exploration anyway.)

@deedee3355

Ай бұрын

So true, im quite fortunate having great set of 43311 of 62/230 jiyan and 70/190 yinlin both of em using siganature, let alone thundering mephis my low skill ass wont allowed me to beat lvl 70 Aix 😂

@silverdemon1530

Ай бұрын

Stupid argument. The game is way too grindy they could've used hsr as an example for gear farming. high tier echos shouldn't be made available until you are able to unlock union level needed to get the resources needed to level them up.

@pauljoseph3081

Ай бұрын

@@MikuscarShiro many players probably from Genshin like me who are used to brute force enemies with OP elemental reactions, WuWa's built different

I think the first video didn't really talk about how crit scales quadratically with the number of substats (not exactly because you have your basic damage but if you think abt only the amt that you increase ignoring the base 100%). Due to this, the first few substats are really not that useful but it scales very well in the later substats. THAT is why you want to build crit as you get later in the game because crit usually has the highest final damage increase per substat as long as you put in enough to get over the beginning that has such a low damage increase, not necessarily because other things fall off. (They do but its not all of the reason).

Can you make a vid on efficiently rolling gear?

bro just said wuwuwuwuwuwuwuwa at the end

the problem is how tenten enters the conversation saying we are all wrong at this moment to farm a 44111 set up when in fact, for F2P this is probably the best shot we have to get our setup to 80-90% of a 43311 setup with limited resources..... and furthermore he is not taking into account that future characters can take over the 2nd 4 cost and the 3rd 1 cost as part of the new 43311 in the future after you had reached end game and new characters are getting released for us to build....

@FreakyDudeEx

Ай бұрын

basically building a 44111 set up is much more beneficial for F2P in the long run since everything will be used up no matter the situation....

@FreakyDudeEx

Ай бұрын

its common sense vs math for optimization... i think its clear cut that common sense should win this time if you are F2P....

Just be lucky. Always the answer.

I clear almost all content with a 44111 not because I wanted but because it is so difficult to get 3 cost echos with good sub stats 😢

"Don't roll 4 cost if you don't have crit rate and crit dmg on the first 2 rolls, it doesn't cost resin just farm again" I really disagree with this take, even thought the echoes are unlimited, the time that you waste isn't, we only have 24h a day

It just because cost 3 is harder to farm that all. Cost 4 is easier. Just farm boss 50 times. But future events where they give echoes 3 cost selectors like the illusive realm will be good for it too

this drama will only get longer as the game gets more updates cuz Jue and Aix will be joining that 44111 argument

isn't the entire point of running two 3 cost echoes for 60% ele dmg bonus some unconditional dmg boost? relying on crit rng for extra damage is always going to be worse on average no?

Even when they out damage 44111, I don't expect it to be by so much that the difference is literally preventing people from completing the game's content. The only time the damage would jump is if a signature weapon or the character heavily relies on this interaction rather than using ATK, Crit, and/or Crit Dmg. Just how I see it. Still super early, so by the time things ramp up, hopefully we all have decent 3 count echoes for our teams.

44111 is the way at the start also you don't lose anything if you want to change to 43311 cuz you can give the extra to another character

I just tested this with Havoc Rover after watching your vid. I have 2 sets of havoc echos for a 44111 and a 43311 set all level 25. Take note that I tested this without any skill or food buffs. I tested this by immediately using Resonance Liberation right away to a level 60 Dreamless The resonance liberation damage mentioned is a raw damage. Not a critical damage. No enhanced skill/buffs Test 1*** Raw Stats ATK 1577 Crit Rate 52.3% Crit DMG 238% Basic Atk Bonus 18.8% Heavy Atk DMG Bonus 18.7% Resonance Skill DMG Bonus 30% Resonance Liberation DMG Bonus 8.6% Havoc DMG Bonus 13.6% Current Echo setup = 44111 Damage to Level 60 Dreamless using Resonance Liberation 7500-7900 Raw No Crit Test 2*** Raw Stats ATK 1551 Crit Rate 46.6%% Crit DMG 194% Basic Atk Bonus 24.4% Heavy Atk DMG Bonus 10.1% Resonance Skill DMG Bonus 30% Resonance Liberation DMG Bonus 26.6% Havoc DMG Bonus 73.6% Current Echo setup = 43311 Damage to Level 60 Dreamless using Resonance Liberation 11000-11900 Raw No Crit

Legitimate question guys does running 3333 with full electro element boost on par with 43311 ? (3cost) x2 Void thunders w/Electro elmnt (3cost) x2 Lingering tunes w/Electro elmnt when all four are +25 , that gives you total of 130% electro dmg , 10% atk (+10% electro dmg for 2pc set Void Thunder) (+10% Atk for 2pc set Lingering tunes) not including sub stats then it has more higher Dmg amplifier compared to 43311 even with the 5pc sonata effect.

in the math fairy we trust

I suppose the main factor is in the substats. 4-4-1-1-1 would be better if the second 4 cost, and all your 1 costs have awesome substats, while you don't have any good Element Damage% ones, or any at all. Since boss echoes are far simpler to farm than elite ones, so you can just stack crit and fish for Energy regen or damage mods. Though 4-3-3-1-1 would be better in endgame, once you have 3 cost echoes with 2 crit substats and at least 2 "good enough" ones, like Energy regen and a relevant damage mod. At the moment though, with how bad Echo ecomony is, the second option is unrealistic. Go with double 4 costs unless you got really lucky on your 3 costs, and wait until Kuro tweaks the Echo leveling mechanic, either giving us much more exp materials, or allowing us to use other Echoes as exp fodder.

so assuming we use 3 cost with atk% main stat, will it do better than 44111? 3 cost selector that we'll get aside, there are 2 selector available from illusive realm, so 1 elemental dmg main stat should be doable i do hope they make it easier to get the correct element though cuz rng sucks ass

Iv been busting my ass trying to get a electro set flautist with crit....

You say that, but when all your electro bonus drops on the frost set and all your electro sets drop with fusion damage it becomes extremely hard to build a 4-3-3 😂

i got 1-3 correct main stats and set everyday when i farming but it may not be the one that i want for building my current character right now and wince substats is RNG so 3 correct cost 3 echo doesn't mean much compare to effort spent everyday 1- 2 hr farming echo route is quite consider amounts.

What i personally dont get is, if your at a 1:2 ratio crit, whats the difference? I haven't gotten to this part yet, but at max level are the echo main stat bonuses the same, as in for 30% crit rate you get 60% crit dmg or 30% dmg bonus?if so then why is these even a conversation.

personally i love 44111 more but that's for the future, because theres limitation to it, as of right now we don't have 2 4 costs that has the same element except HAVOC and THUNDER so it will limit me for wanting other elements build with 44111 formation, so for now 43311 takes the win but for the future, it will be different.

can someone tell me why he call that tempest Memphis echo a trash in the thumbnail ? i don't think I'll survive watching 40 mins vods just to look for that answer

@gottakilldemall

Ай бұрын

Not the echo itself. More about the topic running 44111 or 43111 debate

I think the problem is Smack wants "good numbers" on his statsheet too early too soon, and not even thinking about other stats on his characters' substats other than cr/cd.

Farming 3s right now is crazy that its beneficial to farm 4s than!clearing the map of 3s..... maybe in ULv40 when the drop is better then 43311 is better to farm.

TenTen made new video where he showed that even 4311 with no subs on 3 cost will perform similary to 44111 full set. As far as I know you can't get elemental dmg. Also, you misunderstood Maygi calcs. She assumed you have 44111 with set bonus, even thought it's impossible to get in game. So, the way I see this: 44111: + easier to get full set + Lack of DMG% from 3cost can be compensated to a degree with subs. - only 3 sets have the opportunity to run this - lesser dmg potential than 43311 - Some units really want ER from they 3cost. - Require better/more specyfic substats. 43311: + You can use off-set 3 costs and even without substats it will perform similary to 44111 + Aviable for every set in game + In generall, higher dmg celling - harder to get full set - if you run off-set peaces, they'll, will be worthless in end game. So, both options have pros and cons. 43311 needs less investment in terms of substats to perform on similar level that 44111. Both sets can end up frocing you to level up echos that end up redundant. And of course, biggest point is that not everyone can even go for 44111. If you have it, 44111 is good substitute, but I personally wont be farming for it. One reason is that I already have decent 43311 most of characters I intend to actually use. Second is that most of them can't even use 44111.

i want actual comparison and numbers between 44111 and 43311, both decent sets

My yinlin and calcharo is boths on 43311 with boths on electro bonus stats ... Its totally took me like 8/9 days of farmin ... And boths came with cal 70/250 yin 50/210