Durometer - Hard vs Soft Skateboard Wheels
Тәжірибелік нұсқаулар және стиль
Discover how skateboard wheels get their durometer values using testing devices.
Testing for “shore” or durometer is a way of measuring the hardness of a material. However, the word “durometer” refers to both the hardness of a material and also to the testing device used to measure it. By hardness, we mean how well a material withstands indentation or changes in shape when a force is applied.
The method used for determining the hardness of a plastic or rubber is called the Shore Hardness Test.
Each durometer scale has a value of 0-100, with a higher number relating to harder material.
Durometer Scales Used In The Skate Industry:
Durometer type Shore A is widely used for measuring wheels and bushings. Some manufacturers/brands use the type D scale, used for harder plastics, when measuring a wheel’s inner core/hub or outer surface. Recently, the brands Bones, Ricta, and others have been using the type B scale for measuring their wheels.
Shore/Durometer Values:
The face of the indicator consists of a graduated dial ranging from 0-100. Durometer scales do not go over 100, despite products displaying “101A” or greater. Remember, 100A indicates no indenter penetration at all. This means there is no such thing as 101A or 103A. How can there be less than zero penetration?
However, skateboard wheel manufacturers often print durometer values of over 100A on their wheels. Why? Good question.
Is it marketing hype designed to give consumers the impression their wheels have more durability or better performance?
Or, are they implying the type A durameter tester doesn’t apply enough force to their wheels to accurately measure the surface hardness, and give it a reading above the type A scale? If so, it would be more appropriate to use a type B durameter. They most likely do this to give skaters the impression of what the duro would be if the scale went over 100A.
Durometer Reading Variations:
Typically, the durometer value printed on a skateboard wheel is not actually the true durometer. Street skating wheels labeled 100A could actually be something quite different, such as 97A, or even 95A.
Various factors can affect how the durometer reading of a urethane wheel is different than what is printed:
1. Time- While pouring material into molds, and material curing time.
2. Temperature- Of material, atmosphere, and mold.
3. Quality of material
4. Ambient moisture (humidity)
5. Color method- Liquid versus powder
6. Marketing hype
The durometer value printed on your wheels should match as closely as possible to the wheels’ true durometer. Here’s why:
1. Harder wheels are faster on smooth surfaces.
2. Harder street skateboarding wheels typically resist flat spotting.
3. Harder wheels slide/drift easier.
4. Softer wheels have more grip on the road.
5. Softer wheels are faster on rough surfaces
6. Softer longboard/downhill skateboarding wheels typically wear less.
Converting Durometers A and B Scales:
Bones Wheels has recently been using the type B scale. Bones states, “It is very similar to the A Scale, but reads 20 points lower, allowing the useful scale to be extended by 20 points, which covers the entire hardness range of skate wheels in one scale.”
This is not entirely true. Although, the B scale does read lower than the A scale, it is important to note that a measurement on the A scale does not directly convert to 20 points lower on the B scale. A durometer reading of 98 Shore A should not presumably be 78 Shore B.
At the Bones Wheels website, (bones.com/why/b-scale/), they have a comparison chart indicating that 103A is compared to 83B. This is not accurate. The Bones comparison chart appears to be arbitrarily constructed and not based on acceptable industry comparison charts already in use. Comparison charts are used for reference, and all testing should be done using a separate type durometer tester.
Rat Vision tested Bones STF 83B wheels with both type A and type B durometers. Our results were 97A and 98A , and 74B to 83B. Not only did this show that the Bones STF 83B wheels being tested are not 103A (as if the A scale actually reached 103A), they are not even 83B, regardless of the rare wheels (not sets) that actually tested at 83B. In fact, some tested as low as 74B, which is 9 points less.
We commend Bones Wheels for its leadership in the skate industry in switching to the Shore B scale. (BUT they failed to provide accurate durometer readings, and a bogus comparison chart.)
We would like to know your thoughts about the B scale, especially after what you have read. Please post your comments below.
Пікірлер: 370
Bones are the best wheels I ever had... and their bearings feel great! Bones may give false information but they are truly top of the line skateboard brand.
This channel should be called debunking skate board companies
That was a fantastic explanation to an annoying question. Thank you!🙂
FINALLY!
@ControlableChaos
9 жыл бұрын
Rat Vision - Skateboard Tech YES YOU GUYS ARE BACK!
@lololololololollololololololo
9 жыл бұрын
Yeah youre back and f##k boens with a durometer (means in german HÄRTEGRADMESSER)
@patricklusk1726
9 жыл бұрын
Rat Vision - Skateboard Tech you should keep making newer videos
@rickymatrin4574
9 жыл бұрын
What's better rubber seal bearing or metal shield bearing for protection
@ControlableChaos
9 жыл бұрын
Ricky Matrin i use rubber seals but shieldes are good too the only problem is some have to be bent to open them up and that would destroy them... sooooo yeah
80 years, long waited.... it's nice seeing you again :)
Yay you guys are back! Awesome!
This channel is a true gem for the skater that wants to understand what is going on with all the branding. Thanks for this one, I now know how to pich a wheel !
thank you for this video. ive been searching high and low for this answer
Glad to see you've got a new video. Great detail. I was thinking about this quite a bit while doing powerslides a few days ago.
Nicely done. I am of the opinion that riders are falsely being taught to value meaningless micro differences in products. I challenge any rider to tell the difference between a 105a and 97a wheel in terms of riding, and as Bones itself shows with its "fewer flatspots" guarantee, and as you mention, it is the wheel COMPOSITION that matters in terms of durability, not the hardness.
@matbroomfield
9 жыл бұрын
***** I think you have to ask if you have the riding sensitivity to detect a 5% hardness difference? Then consider that there is NO SUCH THING as 104a, because the scale only goes up to 100. I assume that what they are trying to say is "Really really hard", which is NOT a good thing anyway, but many skaters incorrectly conflate hardness with durability. Personally, I would just buy wheels that I like the look of that are in the ballpark of what I like, rather than obsessing over the marketing hype of a few percentage points of difference.
@crimson1718
9 жыл бұрын
I found you again Matt lol
@matbroomfield
9 жыл бұрын
Lorenzo L. Boo! Yeah, these guys are very impressive. Had your birthday yet Renzo?
@crimson1718
9 жыл бұрын
Mat Broomfield yep my birthday was on the 23rd, thanks for asking ;) Got some new trucks and a board that I will skate soon
@matbroomfield
9 жыл бұрын
Lorenzo L. I thought you were hoping to get wheels? Trucks and a board are better! Which did you get?
This is very educational video. I appreciate it. I wish there was more consistency across the skate wheel industry.
OMFG WTF YOU'RE BACK
Hey bro, blader here from Malaysia. Love your videos, I'm learning so much from you although it's meant to be for skateboards. Keep it up!
Glad to see u back
bones can put whatever duro for their stf formula but they make some damn good street skate wheels
@kainethomson5869
9 жыл бұрын
I just got the bone Felipe gustavo pro model and they shred
@mnnmnnnnnnn
3 жыл бұрын
i got the stf v4 and i love em
THIS is a shockingly good video, i'm from the engineering world so i don't say that lightly (no tolerance for BS cause sh*t failing = dead). KZread needs more of this, well done man (we're using skate wheels as cheap hardness test examples).
A great video with well needed info, thanks guys!
Even though you upload one video per year they're still good !
Yay! You guys are back! You guys taught me everything I know! You guys are my sensi
@kainethomson5869
9 жыл бұрын
Sensei
@richardmedina707
9 жыл бұрын
Kaine Thomson lol whoops cx
@kainethomson5869
8 жыл бұрын
+Kaine Thomson i don't even remember this
@richardmedina707
8 жыл бұрын
Kaine Thomson have they posted anything after this video? XD
This was very helpful to me, I've always been curious about how the skateboard wheel durometer measuring system worked, I might consider getting one of those tools so I can measure the duro of my wheels.
Awesome video, very clear and informative. Thank you!
Wow that was a LOT of information!!! Thanks for the video!! I've been waiting for a new video for so long! I finally bought a 42' pintail longboard a few mths ago, and I haven't been able to give it the good ol' college try in learning to ride it yet. I saw some kids riding their skateboards today and they couldn't be anymore than 8-9 years old. I was so jelly!!! I want to ride mine so bad! One day... One day... But great insightful video! Please make more videos!!! Lol @ these companies lying on their wheel numbers. Now I know what to look for :).
woah, thanks for making the technical videos, theyre really interesting
I was waiting so long and your back yes
Great information! Thanks for making the video!
i only watched 3 of your videos by now and i have to say thank you very much already. so much knowledge. so assuming you are telling the truth and are being neutral, THANK YOU MAN!
@RatVision
7 жыл бұрын
Yup, we do are best to provide the most accurate and thorough info as possible. Thank you the nice comment.
YES! New video keep them coming please excellent information.
About time your back!
Yes! you are back!!!
OMG A VIDEO I WAS WAITING SO LONG
Strange - I was sanding a new skate deck this evening and thought about your video where you say, "You don't know what a cassette tape case is?" Welcome back! Have you done a video on different truck materials (titanium, steel, dolomite, etc.), different designs (hollow axles, hollow kingpins, those funky new Avenue Trucks), and high truck vs low trucks? I'd find that interesting and useful.
Where did you go?! Glad you're back!
Guys congrats for your videos , you have a great channel, I thank you for all the these information, I also think there could be more quality control in the skate industry for the good and safety of the customers, we skate for fun and passion and want to spend our money with brands that don´t cheat on us. I appreciate your effort and researches.
@RatVision
7 жыл бұрын
THANK YOU! One of the greatest comments we've received in all our years on KZread. People like you encourage us to keep doing what we do. Thank you.
this video is extremely informative and helpful
dang its been a while since the last video. keep up the good work
Can't wait for the choosing wheels video.
@RatVision
8 жыл бұрын
+metalcann It's coming! Not sure when unfortunately.
@purepk3rz4
7 жыл бұрын
Rat Vision - Skateboard Tech are you ready??
Love this channel! Wish they would upload new videos
Holy crap. Amazing videos. Finally someone teach me.
FUXKING GREAT SEE A NEW VIDEO ON THIS CHANNEL!
Excellent video.
Yessss my boy back
HOLY MOTHER OF GOD YOUR BACK!!!!
Yes finally a new video!
I find these so interesting
You're awesome dude!
Welcome back!
you should make a vid and test all the big wheel companies wheels on how flatspot resistent they are
Worth the wait, no bullshit.
Yes! I love learning about skateboarding! Keep making videos man! #skatelife
so maybe that's why spitfire classics feel softer...they probably aren't 99a at all. They're probably closer to 97. I still love em, tho.
@RatVision
8 жыл бұрын
+ModernDinosaur Exactly right!
@8d932
3 жыл бұрын
If you want the wheels to feel like 99a get 101s they feel amazing
Thx for this vid... I been wanting to buy some bones wheels but always thought they were just way to hard for me. This really has me thinking now. I just want to fins a wheel thats not so soft its slow and not so hard that its slipping out from under me. I rise Vert and pools and getting up there in age and trying to stay safe. thx
YOU'RE BACK!!
Hey you're back!
Oh yeah! I love Ratvision. Keep up the good work
nice work
Subscribed. Thank you for your videos. They are really informative. I am just curious to whether we can compare an 80A wheel to an 85A wheel just by looking/feeling the wheels. Is that possible?
Finaly another video any way I longborad and I want to switch to skate borad what brand of board or wheels and trucks should I get??
YOU'RE BACK!!! :D
1:22 6 years later still waiting on that video 👀
HES BACK!!!!
Rat Vision - Skateboard Tech It's been so long since your last upload! May I ask what the hold up has been (if it's nothing too personal)? I can't express how much I enjoy seeing your videos. Not only are they enjoyable, they've also been the best source of education throughout all skateboarding video content. Never in my life would I've thought that skateboarding industries had so many flaws in their marketing displays. Or even neat little tricks and tips such as removing pesky hardware or grip from a board. And how many people can go around saying that they know what a durometer is? Let alone how the scales work! Without writing a novel, I just wanted to say I love the direction that this channel has gone in. I know that it takes a while make a video with good content and sometimes things such as schooling and work get in the way. But if possible, do you think you could continue these videos a bit more rapidly? It's always nice to keep the fan-base up because the absence of videos results in a tremendous drop in views. I hate seeing so many people miss out on good content! Also, if you ever get stuck on what to do for a video, I could give you a few pointers on myths and confusions throughout the skateboarding community. I'm sure you hear loads. But if you ever get stumped, I could give out a few that can be done factually. Keep them coming! LegalSkateboards
Finally a new video
Hahaha last video was last year!!! Your back!!! Yes!!!
It's been so long! And what a way to come back, I've always been interested in this but never enough to look it up my self. Very informative video.
Finally your back!!!! I leant everything from you. But have one question. Wouldn't it be easier on everybody just to stick with shore A. And keep it that way it's less confusing and most are used to the scale already?
yo you always answer my questions fucking exactly you rock man keep making videos please
this channel is sick.
make more videos i love them!
YOU'RE ALIVE
Have you done a video discussing what is the best wheel to use for different genres? I like to tick-tack and coast, mainly. I'm using Ruff Stuff wheels now; 85A on the durometer scale.
So in your opinion what is the best skating setup? Please make a video on it
Now I know see this is why I'm subbed
@RatVision
8 жыл бұрын
+Uncleben1102 Word!
WTF FINALLY A NEW VIDEO
When are you guys gunna put out another video, this one should be about "what wheels to use for different skate genres" i could really use this information, im scared to spend my money on the wrong thing.
You should make a skate part for us or show a line at a park. I'd love to see you skate :D
Nice.. You're back.. It's time to see more of Rat vision channel :D
I'd love to see a video, not only on hardness vs softness compared to the different styles of skating, but determining what width a board and their corresponding trucks would be in comparison to the style of skateboarding. E.g. wider board and trucks are for vert style, or so I'm always told. Would be nice too know why this is preferred and what benefits it would provide if any.
@nivlac4150
8 жыл бұрын
To measure the width of a board you use a measuring tape
Yeah! You're back! Please do a video about how to fix crooked trucks!
@RatVision
9 жыл бұрын
Verbs WB Crooked? Is one wheel off the ground, or does the board roll to one side?
@MrCapRoach
9 жыл бұрын
roll on side, bolts are tightened, I always have to press hard on the other side it was convenient to go, but it's only for a short time
@MBsteller
9 жыл бұрын
Verbs WB Yeah, I have a similar problem. When I go to lean-turn on my board, it always turns easier on the one side. Its like the truck bushings are much softer on one side of them or something. Ill skate with nose of the board forward, and the board.more easily leans towards me. Ill flip the board around and skate the nose, and the board leans forward easier, away from me. Hope that made sense
@RatVision
9 жыл бұрын
Nearly all trucks have terrible bushings. It's pretty weird. They wear out sooner than most people (including pros) think. They lose rebound, recovery time, and shape over a farely quick period of time. So, yes it could be easier to turn to one side. One wheel off the ground has to do with the truck hanger still leaning to one side when you step off the board. This is comppletely normal. Your own body weight corrects the problem. You guys may want to change your bushings to either harder or softer depending on how loose or tight you like your trucks. Don't rely more on the kingpin nut to adjust the functionality of the bushings or turning capability. Get the correct hardness first that you desire, then adjust with kingpin nut.
Where is the "Chosing wheels" video? Love your channel. Thanks!!
@RatVision
7 жыл бұрын
We are working on that video. Super busy with other things right now. Stay tuned
Dude. Fucking awesome video. Liked and subscribed no questions asked.
Ratvision is still making vid, damn! His last vid was a year ago. I thought he was done.
miss your videos man :D
Could you please make a video on how to clean non removable bearings shields? Maybe a possibility of taking them off with out damaging them so? Please I have a longboard with all non removable bearings and I don't know how to lube them up with out removing the shields. Thanks
Manufacturers must hate this guy. I appreciate the info so I subscribed
Are you still planning on releasing that video for choosing wheels?
Question if I'm cleaning my grip tape could I use the back of the sponge the scratch part
Ive always had a hard time with wheels (no pun intended)I noticed this as I started to have a preference with products, everytime I buy a set of wheels, even if they are the same durometer, they always end up sliding different.I bought a two sets of spitfires. they were both 101a and one was 52mm and the other one was 53, they were also conical and what impressed me was that they slid different from each other. now I know why haha.Also a quick question, what wheels would you recomend? you seem to know your shit so I want to know
Have been subbed for a year and no let downs, except the sudden end in videos....more?
@RatVision
8 жыл бұрын
Will have a few over the summer.
can you bring out a video about how the textuur of wheels effect te wear of the wheel?? thx
+ratvision can u gies make a vidio on diffrent types of wood and how they work and how they snap
Dropping sick knowledge. You should site your sources.
@RatVision
9 жыл бұрын
Jeremy Moss Thanks. Google search "Shore durometer conversion chart" and they will all show up.
YOUR STILL ALIVE YESSS XD
I wonder if bones had a decrease in sales after adopting the B scale, I couldn't help but notice they started printing 103A or 104A on their wheels since.
Thanks a lot for that video, i totally agree that should be one shore scale for skateboard wheels, which is use for other poliurethanes. In addition to this spitfire describe hardness as for example "99 duro". Is it the same as 99a ?
@mr.jamster8414
4 жыл бұрын
Yeah i think
I think the true crux of this issue is the scale itself. Since there's no direct link between the Shore A, B, D etc. scales, it just ends up being confusing for the majority of people, since scales can't be compared off the top of your head - you need to look at a chart. I think a better solution would be to develop a new scale exclusively for skateboard/longboard wheels, with either a single scale that encompasses all wheels or a similar system to the Shore scale, but with a definitive link between the scales, such as a flat 20-point difference. I think this would remove a lot of the animosity in the current durometer rating system. Although it hasn't taken off hugely, we have a similar system for bearings; the skate-rated scale. If my proposed skate wheel scale and skate-rated bearing scale were to overcome the ABEC and Shore scales (which would be very, very difficult, I admit), I think that skaters would benefit, as it would be much clearer to the skater what they are buying/using. I'd love to know your guys opinion on this!
@RatVision
9 жыл бұрын
Spirit Longboarding There is not supposed to be a link between scales. Think of them like kitchen utensils. In a kitchen you'll find a spoon, fork, spatula, tongs, etc. Each tool is used for a specific(s) task with food, like durometer guages are used to measure the hardness of materials. Each one is separate. You would never use a fork to eat soup, or a spoon to flip eggs. Each durometer guage is separate from the rest, and each one should only be used to measure a material that falls in its range. However, you could use A, B, and D to measure one material. A new scale specific for skateboarding does not solve the issue. You're still introdcing a new scale by the way. Just like how every brand was using the A scale, the industry needs to switch to the B or D scale to cover all wheels. That will solve the issue. We do not have a simalir system for bearings! Where is the "skate-rated" scale? It doesn't exist. Bones made that whole thing up to fool you into thinking they have something special. What is the "skate-rating" of Bones bearings? They don't have a scale. There are no numbers that compare their line of bearings. It's ALL fake! Still don't believe me?... What is the skate rating for Bones Reds and what is the rating for Bones Swiss Ceramic bearings? If there is a rating or scale, why is it not printed on the bearing package? What are they measuring, testing, and what factors are considered in the scale? Bones has NO answers to these questions, because the whole skate-rated thing is all made up. It does not exist. You have to be careful not to get sucked into clever marketing and become "brand-washed". If you haven't seen our video about bearings, we highly recommend you do. There are too many factors that come into play that make one bearing better than another, however a bearing rating could be developed that provides a better rating than ABEC (which is meaniningless in skateboarding, for the most part, due to so many factors). Thanks for the comment.
@SpiritLongboarding
9 жыл бұрын
Rat Vision - Skateboard Tech Thanks for the quick reply! I'll admit I didn't do enough research on Bones' Skate Rating, so thanks for clearing that up. I've watched all of your videos several times, and I would agree that a better rating system than the ABEC rating could be developed for skate bearings. This would likely take a lot of time and hassle, and it's probably something that the WSF or any other skating body doesn't have the time to bother about right now, as there are more important things on their plate (such as the whole current argument over the 2020 Olympics, which is a whole other bag of worms). I know that there is no link between the Shore scales, since they measure different rubbers/urethane's/plastics - the true solution would be to educate skaters into what they're truly buying as best as possible, which is what this video does really well. Switching to the B/D scale would sort many of the problems I agree - it's likely to take several years for all companies to cotton on to the idea. I wasn't disagreeing with what you said in the video, I was just putting forward an alternative opinion/solution. It will take time for skaters to get a hold of any "new" scale that takes over, but then again that's the evolution of skateboarding, and it's bound to happen sometime. At the end of the day, the more skaters know about their wheels/bearings/trucks and the like, the more likely they are to make a good choice in purchase and be confident in what they ride, which I think Rat Vision has helped a lot towards. Also, welcome back, it's been a long time! If you're accepting any suggestions for videos, I'd agree with a certain comment I saw earlier that a video on the different types of trucks is sure to be very informative. In longboarding especially, there's several breakthroughs in technology coming in trucks that many people don't know the real differences between (cast, forged, precision trucks, hollows, adjustable baseplates, adjustable axles, springs (Original, Seismic)), so an explanatory video would be awesome! I would suggest something on helmets, but since the IDF is still working on their new helmet rules, I think it's a little too early for that. A video about helmet safety ratings and being careful about what you buy should go down a hit as well. Thanks again for the comment, and I appreciate you putting in the time to write a response as long as that!
I haven't seen you in so long
Heh... Good to know!! Thx man!
Finally !!!
I think companies put 101a + just to try and reassure you that it is the hardest they could possibly make to get to 100 or close. I have Bones STF's 52mm/83b and they do feel like 97a or below when i try to powerslide. I tried ordering some concrete rippers 52mm/58D but they are only available in Japan!I I just ordered some Rosewells 102a/52mm just to see if it will be better for sliding.
@mr.jamster8414
4 жыл бұрын
I like the way spitfires slide. They dont just rotate the back wheels until you go 90 and push hard, they actually slide like butter. Same as the classic formula, but they wear like erasers.
Hello rat vision I have been watching your videos a long time and it I nice how you call out companies like theeve and spitfire I would like to know what companies you commend