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Goku is a complete fighter in DBZ . They had to make him dumb because imagine goku was serious and knows the danger all the time. Most of the fights that endangered the planet or his family would be over in seconds

@feferson492

Жыл бұрын

they didn't have to, they chose to

@Dave-gk6si

Жыл бұрын

@@feferson492 Exaclty

@shaneknight1489

Жыл бұрын

If I were a writer of Dragon Ball Super, I would rather Goku explores new realm of power, trying out new things just to make sure that he is strong enough to save earth all the while seeing the drawbacks of the new forms

@shaneknight1489

Жыл бұрын

So what I am saying is that Goku should have been new not to the training styles presented to him in original Dragon Ball, but to the new branch of power, the power of the gods. Therefore, if written better, when enemies arrive, Goku would go to earth when the situation is dire

@Dave-gk6si

Жыл бұрын

@@shaneknight1489 That’s been done already and it’s failed.

I think Goku's thought about how to handle Dr. Gero was the perfect level of stupidity for him. He had 2 reasons to use Shenron to find Dr. Gero: punish him for the evil he did in the past, and stop him from doing evil in the future which he KNOWS will happen for sure. But Goku is not someone to take revenge when it's not necessary at the moment (Dr. Gero wasn't doing anything tangible at the present), and while naive he did make a good point it's not fair to punish Dr. Gero for what he'll do in the future. So instead they just trained and hoped they'd be strong enough to prevent the future Trunks foretold. It was really dumb, but it wasn't childish. It was actually really mature and made sense. That is the level of dumbness that fits Goku. Not this childish dumbness in Super.

@tribesvanguard7007

Жыл бұрын

Now as smart as it would have been to do that YOU CANT PUNISH SOMEONE FOR A THOUGHT CRIME. they should have been keeping an eye on him for sure but just finding him with shenron and beating him up before he actually does anything is evil.

@tribesvanguard7007

Жыл бұрын

@@hoohoo431 Lmao i agreed with u that it would have been the smart thing to do but still u cant just go fucking people up when they havent done anythign yet

@veryangryboi4128

Жыл бұрын

​@Here's Johnny! To be fair Goku didn't know Gero was doing all that

@antg2183

Жыл бұрын

@@hoohoo431He kidnapped only two kids 17 and 18. Every other Android were actually androids and were robot based. 17 and 18 were Cyborgs and were human based.

@specialnewb9821

Жыл бұрын

Also as Krillin stated Vegeta and Piccolo aren't that far removed from villainy. Having a goal to train for keeps them from fighting each other or trying to destroy or conquer the world.

Toriyama forgot about Goku's development in Z and when writing Super likely defaulted back to a writing a version of Goku he actually remembered and likely personally preferred.

@JinxeBlaq

Жыл бұрын

It’s Toyotaro that writes super and beyond, Toriyama just gives the cliff notes.

@callous2k486

Жыл бұрын

@@JinxeBlaq Toei did the anime, Toyotaro did the manga. Both had notes from Toriyama, like you said

honestly i feel like goku was going through a midlife crisis as soon as he acheived god ki he went into a battle hungry power crazed maniac ready fight about anything and anyone and he wants to put his new power to the test

@veryangryboi4128

Жыл бұрын

That honestly should've been his development in super,it'll at least explain why he's so different in super

@SuperChavon

Жыл бұрын

So like God ki corrupted him? That would've been actually something really cool but, it won't work When he first met Beerus and Beerus wanted to fight him Goku said that if Beerus wanted he could go back to ssj2 if it was too much for him, he was never this egocentric

@wilbestvids

Жыл бұрын

@@SuperChavon kinda im just sayin from a realistic point of view but i think this is the version toriyama wanted its the same reason he spared vegeta on earth because he wants a good foght

@SuperChavon

Жыл бұрын

@@wilbestvids ok, maybe he Was that egocentric, but it's been dozens of years after that, he learned after Freezer that not everyone can actually be saved like he did with piccolo and Vegeta And he learned not to be so egocentric too

@RichDXtreme247

Жыл бұрын

@@SuperChavonI believe from what I’ve heard with Journey to the West on a video, Son Wukong began as this arrogant monkey dude who went on fighting the gods on a rampage, which is why he had that headband, so he could be controlled and calmed down but eventually he freed himself and went on that rampage and down the line in his life became like the Goku we knew. And that beginning story alone is what inspired Z-Broly to exist and be a parallel to Goku, this arrogant and bloodlusted warrior that wanted to fight everyone. MAYBE when Goku gained his God Ki abilities, he more or less got TOO excited for his own good to see how far he can go unlike how he acted in DBZ, he was already familiar with the regular Super Saiyan and he got himself a brand new and unfamiliar power with a deeper pool of power that he had never felt before.

What if Goku in Super just became more Saiyan like? He tapped into God ki after aquiring SSG and after that its solely been about "breaking limits" as they say multiple times throughout Super. He unlocked multiple forms after BoG too. The series started to become more about his new form rather than martial arts. He goes to SSG -> SSB --> SSB Kaioken. Goku reached a point where he got power hungry and wasn't thinking about preserving his body and trying to be more calm in Super. In order to surpass Hit, he just needs to gain even more power on top of Blue. Tranquility and calmness are something that kaioken trades for a power boost. Goku got power hungry and needed to be reminded of his older principles. It isn't until he unlocks Ultra Instinct where in the manga, Roshi reminds him of what his masters are trying to teach him. He needs to have his body thinking independently. He needs to calm his heart instead of getting power hungry like Vegeta does with Ultra Ego; the technique in which Gods of Destructions use, opposite of the Angels. They contradict each other. He embraces the drive for battle that Saiyans have! I'm sure that they have also written him poorly too but this is my head canon.

@xdrastig_4207

Жыл бұрын

the fact is: Goku in Z became too wise for him to be power hungry, and he hasn't come close to his true saiyan self since he acts like a child, easy as that. You can imagine all you want, but goku simply has regressed in super forgetting he's a mentor other than a student

@RACH90810

Жыл бұрын

​@@xdrastig_4207 he regressed because he was bored. Even Vegeta surprised with his demeanor. At TOP, because of roshi he almost return to himself. Its time for vegeta to remind him

@xdrastig_4207

Жыл бұрын

@@RACH90810 so you excuse him being childish because he was "bored"? Bro literally trained 7 years in hell alone and wasn't bored, tf you mean he regressed cus he was bored, he basically never fought for fun in Z

@RACH90810

Жыл бұрын

@@xdrastig_4207 actually he just need activity for killing time, thats why whis scolding him. Before android saga, he just killing time in yadrat. Moro spirit bomb also his plan to lure uub giving his energy. In Granolah arc, he knew the strongest was uub.

@xdrastig_4207

Жыл бұрын

@@RACH90810 He wasn't just "killing time in yardrat", in the original timeline(the trunks one) he teleported back to earth to kill frieza, but he didn't in the one we watch because he percieved someone as strong as him on earth (trunks from the future). In yardrat he learned about instant trasmission, so he didn't just "kill time".

I think what may missed is that Goku isn't dumb, he is meant to be portrayed as a simple man. His aspirations are minimal. He loves his family, friends, food, training and fighting. The adventures in his life align with that. He IS a combat genius. During DB & DBZ we see that. I think with the transformations we see should be equal to "gains" one might achieve from their hard work.

@buster3041

Жыл бұрын

Goku is dumb. That's been shown hundreds of times

@Waluboi

Жыл бұрын

I hate how they made Goku dumb in super because he was never that dumb, he was just uneducated about the world in the OG dragon ball and Z.

Ive seen a lot of people say goku embraced his true nature and became more like his kid self but thats just dumb because even if your "true self" is childish that dosent mean to suddenly change so dramatically plus goju has grown from thst and his "true self" is him during the cell ark and

@cowabungaitis9319

Жыл бұрын

The second King Piccolo harmed hus friends Kid Goku was already no play all game, this Goku is even dumber than Kid and its not even close

@erdrick8670

Жыл бұрын

Funny enough, I felt GT did a better job of that attempt at exploration. He acted aloof for sure, but when it came down to something serious his head was definitely in the game. It's just that a lot of those threats early on just weren't for him and he knew it. He was just enjoying the journey.

@oyeahisbest123

Жыл бұрын

The true awnser was already explained before. In order to reach the version of ultra instinct whis talked about you needed to discard emotions. So thats what goku was doing until he realized he had his own version of ultra instinct infusing his emotions that's different than the angels.

@smhwolvi

Жыл бұрын

brother

@licansen3331

Жыл бұрын

​@@oyeahisbest123 yea but before whis tho Goku was already acting ignorant af

Isn’t it stated that the super saiyan and other forms as they increase make them exceptionally stronger but also makes it harder for them to control themselves from enjoying the fight, and the kill?

@miguelperez9906

Жыл бұрын

That’s just SSJ god forms do the opposite they are about self control

@MonsterHunterPV

Жыл бұрын

Wish they would tap into that more

@callous2k486

Жыл бұрын

That’s why Goku and Gohan trained in the Time chamber to regress those feelings and make SSJ feel like their normal state. Remember how everyone was shocked at how calm they seemed when they came out the chamber? Vegeta then did this off screen, and Trunks (present) and Goten were like that from the get-go

It sucks that they took a fully developed goku in z and basically started over just to keep "his story going". I think super should of been more about goku and vegeta shifting to more mentoring roles as they raise rhe next generation of z fighters

@SomeRandomJackAss

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, exactly. Vegeta was also reset for Super, going from accepting that Goku will always be the stronger of the two of them to once again being obsessed with surpassing him. People will claim that the whole God transformations thing reignited that drive in him since it provided a new avenue for him to surpass Goku, and sure, in-universe that fits, but in terms of writing and character development it's super disappointing. I guess the Super versions of Goku and Vegeta just became caricatures of their former selves.

@TradFalange

Жыл бұрын

​@@SomeRandomJackAss If you think that's bad you should watch GT

@SomeRandomJackAss

Жыл бұрын

@@TradFalange GT does it better.

@callous2k486

Жыл бұрын

@@SomeRandomJackAss Honestly that “you are number 1 Kakarot” moment seemed like some total bs to me. No way could Vegeta just give up on being as strong as Goku like that

@pidgeonhq

Жыл бұрын

@@callous2k486 perfect example of "Dont fight with us dragon ball fans, we didn't even watch the anime".

Goku is having a midlife crisis y’all

@Dave-gk6si

Жыл бұрын

Zip it troll

@KinggDC

Жыл бұрын

@@Dave-gk6si the fuck are you talking about? I can drop comments whenever I want.

In Super they turned Goku into Team 4 Star version of Goku,

@TeamHeropon

Жыл бұрын

It's especially noticeable in the Funimation dub and that was before they showed their true colors for being an awful company ran by awful people.

@newkiller4457

Жыл бұрын

@@TeamHeroponone reason why they fired one of the best VA of dragon ball and other anime’s which was Vic unfortunately. I’m assuming some of the VA had no options but to jump the bandwagon since it’s one of the best income they get from That company so they had to choose to say something, but some just stay neutral for the sake of not causing any controversies.

Sayains have an innate fighting spirit, Goku isn’t a kid anymore he values the fight and isn’t naive to his heritage and doesn’t care for it but he still holds some value to his upbringing to the point where he can improve his strength. Gokus realized that he needs to be stronger it’s not as much as a want as it is a need. He chose to stay dead in the Cell ark for this reason.

@JakeRider-wc6ke

Жыл бұрын

Goku does care about his heritage what your talking about? The whole is he a Saiyan who literally breaks any limit just like every other Saiyan they all go by this it's literally in their blood. Plus Goku knows he need Power because you can be as skilled as you want but if someone to powerful you can't really do anything.

@prime2327

Жыл бұрын

@@JakeRider-wc6ke Goku has never shown interest in the sayains as he deemed anyone willing to impose power into a another is abusing it, that’s why I explained why Goku seeks to train and learn how to show the villains he fights a new better way instead of killing them off. He doesn’t do that to them all but it still stands he doesn’t respect the sayain warriors. But acknowledges their power and therefor values it.

@josyahbryant8719

Жыл бұрын

​@@prime2327 that is not at all how it works he very much respect his Heritage he even embraced it with the Super Saiyan but the point is he didn't fully understand what his version of being a member of the race truly was that's the difference between him and Vegeta

@josyahbryant8719

Жыл бұрын

​@@prime2327 and Goku being called number one by Vegeta drive this home because he it's more of a Saiyan then Goku but by him acknowledging that his ideology is the better one it acknowledges that Goku is a true Saiyan warrior and even Vegeta adopted at thinking because it was the right one

@josyahbryant8719

Жыл бұрын

​@@prime2327 saying he doesn't care about his Heritage or respected but not only wrong it's misleading very much embraced his Heritage in his own way and was even shown to be the right way by pretty much the elite of his heritage who is Vegeta Goku is number one his ideology in carrying his Heritage is how it should be done

Dragon Ball Super definitely has an identity problem, I rank it the same as GT where there's things I like and things I despised. At the very least, the movies has been fantastic; and I like how they portrayed Goku and Super Saiyan God in the Super Broly movie where Goku wanted to fight him, but he could tell that Broly wasn't a bad person and how SSG had a lot more elegant movements and focused purely on defense.

@joshuahackshaw7703

Жыл бұрын

I agree there are good things and bad things about Super

@TradFalange

Жыл бұрын

Super is by far better then GT, that's for sure

@whoa_Nelly

Жыл бұрын

@Vegeta the Goat🏳️‍🌈⃠ Better? Up to opinion, far better? Dogshit opinion. Super sacrifices the characters growth and personality for merch. A mindless cashgrab that dumbasses eat up for the shiny new forms.

@ohhellwhereami2574

Жыл бұрын

​@@TradFalange sus

@lolcall5295

Жыл бұрын

@@TradFalange it's not. even if it is better than GT, it was never by far because by the end of the day both are TRASH. it doesn't matter if one trash is superior to the other, trash is STILL TRASH.

This is why I believe Gohan should have became the protagonist after Goku died bc he still had room to grow as a fighter and all of this stuff that Goku is going through could have been done for Gohan. Also the fact I think that Gohan wanting to get stronger as a Earthling and not as a Saiyan is stupid bc he is only as strong as he is bc of his Saiyan genes.

@mooganify

Жыл бұрын

Toriyama should have just stuck with it, idk why he spent years developing that story to drop it in weeks.

@emperortoho

Жыл бұрын

@@mooganify he ran out of ideas for gohan and didn’t want to keep writing him, stupid cop out storywise but its understandable

@knightstudio9985

Жыл бұрын

Toriyama should had made goten and trunks main character

@emperortoho

Жыл бұрын

@@knightstudio9985 we got those few chapters with them as the mcs and it was pretty fun, anyone besides goku and vegeta at this point is nice tien spinoff when i need launch and chaotzu back

@greeshgrief1662

Жыл бұрын

@@mooganify Japanese fans didn't like Gohan as the protagonist so Toriyama made the switch back

This thumbnail is hilarious considering Goku in Super has shown time and again to value technique over raw power. Here’s only a few instances: 1) basically the entire Hit fight, wherein he focuses on Hit’s hand movements to discern how his time cage worked 2) When he mixed SSB and SSG to give him extra agility to actually approach the enemy before switching to Blue to deal maximum damage. He does this in the TOP famously and also is done in the manga Black Arc. 3) During his first fight with Beerus in God, Goku knows he can’t actually beat Beerus head on, instead matching his punches with Beerus’, equalizing the impact and giving him more of a chance. 4) Recently in the Granolah arc, Goku mixes Ultra Instinct with Blue, with the aim of making his vitals harder to hit. 5) in the anime TOP, Goku is underpowered against Jiren for much of the arc. Due to this, he uses destructo discs to destroy Jiren’s footing, and ki mines to slow his movement. This is stuff that isn’t just battle IQ, DBS Goku is actively using his head in these scenarios. The narrative that DBS Goku just relies on power alone has been actively discouraged by the actual anime and the manga respectively. If anything, power becomes absolute in the later stages of Z, where strategy is forgotten in exchange for transformations. Goku also never forgets his Saiyan pride in Super, theres no moment where he even rejects his Saiyan inclinations unlike GT during the baby saga, where he does the following.

I would like to think the character slips are similar to Jaden in Season 4 of Yugioh GX. The whole show he's got this sense of justice (his main deck is literally called Heroes) and desire to play for fun more than to win but to be willing to test his skills if the opportunity arose, just like Goku. But after three seasons of having to duel to save the world, to be an absolute tryhard or else he and all of his loved ones will die, actually weighs on him so much that he forgets how to play for fun and stomps everyone with no mercy. He has to re-develop his character because trauma tore him out of it, and while he doesn't exactly get over having to save the world, he learns to recognize that there are times where he can allow himself lose if there aren't any stakes. That's what I'd like to think. What I'm willing to guess happened is Toriyama forgot, and/or the multitudes of authors in the Super era have muddled the characters.

@LamunesADV

Жыл бұрын

Ah, a man of culture talking about GX, i see.

You are overthinking it I think. The reason they made goku dumb was to get back to the more comedic roots of the dragon ball era of the series. They essentially turned him from a character to a caricature.

@erenyaeger7662

Жыл бұрын

Nobody rly can know for sure...but I really like your idea

@jaipadv8282

Жыл бұрын

Actually this does fit the best as the Super franchise is intended for a wider audience, that includes a younger audience It's the same reason they got rid of blood effects or permanent scar and limb effects It's because the show runs on TV earlier in the day, so it's more accessible to a wider amount of people, specially new age children

I think that Goku having a identity crisis is normal. In fact is something that he has never had before. The Goku from Freeza saga was from decades ago in canon. Goku has been to different planets, dead, revived, been with he’s family and now he’s chilling with gods and training. People change as they get older and breakthroughs in the past don’t close the door for self reflection and growth.

@HollowStix

Жыл бұрын

It seems your one of the few with a true understanding, or shall I say a better one.

@RainSpitter

Жыл бұрын

@@HollowStix I don’t like the criticism that DBS or Boruto get. Seeing what has happened with IP’s I used to love like Star Wars really makes me appreciate DBS. Sure maybe DBZ hits different (specially considering that there’s nostalgia involved), but DBS is not half bad and has brought some great arcs/things like Goku Black, canon Broly and ToP.

Internal struggles might seem to end when they haven't. A person can revisit thoughts and the other side can come back out on top perhaps do to circumstance and how they're experiencing it.

Pure facts being spat man, absolute banger video. Huge W on the call out for some of these issues with goku's character in Super!

@TradFalange

Жыл бұрын

No facts are being spoke

How about this hypothesis, the more Goku gets in tune with angel powers the more emotionally detached he becomes based on angels natural state??!

@Blittsplitt5

Жыл бұрын

Are the angels really detached though?

@Jon-zl1qy

Жыл бұрын

@@Blittsplitt5 id say it's likely. They really don't have any bias towards wrongs and rights in the eyes of mortals

Its not that Goku has forgotten, but that Toriyama can't remember his own material.. simple.

Good and concise video

Great vid bro, ur such an underrated KZreadr man, keep it up ❤

@MajinBird

Жыл бұрын

Thanks a trying my best man

@SomerandomYT1

Жыл бұрын

HELP ME FROM THESE COMMENTS

@a_za_z7577

Жыл бұрын

@@SomerandomYT1 brody why u trippin 💀

@SomerandomYT1

Жыл бұрын

@@a_za_z7577 👇👇

@SomerandomYT1

Жыл бұрын

@@a_za_z7577 lookie you look like one of em dem comment bots it's the same comment over and over and over and your in the loop of the youtube like farming comment its the same thing over and over and over holy you've seen it and now you've become it

Great Video

Just a Question to anyone: How would you fixed this issue we have with super? Just interested to hear peoples thoughts

I feel like goku keeps forgetting then needs to remember again due to being dropped

This is why i love Hyourinjutsu DB Fanimation, the one where DBGT Goku fight with DBS Goku is to me the perfect way to introduce UI to Goku since in that animation DBS Goku relearn the value he lost from his older counterpart.

@seventyfourty

Жыл бұрын

That's my favorite fight, 2nd place is the Black Baby Vegito vs Broly

Nice editing

@MajinBird

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Ren

My headcanon is that the SSG Ritual has an unknown side effect of mental imbalance.

Goku is just dealing with the amnesia that comes with getting old

I am currently working on a dragon ball rewrite

end song sounded too familiar. What is that??

My cousin told me that a lot of people cried in the 90s when Dragon Ball GT had ended. Even though it's not canon, fans accepted the end of the anime. They made their peace. Re-introducing Dragon Ball Super is a tomb they shouldn't open. Now, it's hard for the author to end the story without sabotaging Goku's character. A lot of characters lost their value after the Vegeta saga on Dragon ball Z. The more Super goes on, the more uncertainty on how the show should end. The original author wanted to end the story after the Freeza saga.

@Sanyo10

Жыл бұрын

The last episode of Super literally says "This is the story that will never end."

@Quicktwosteps

Жыл бұрын

@@Sanyo10 then dragon ball is fuck. It's like a basketball player that couldn't admit his old. They're already dabbling on divine powers and multi verses. What other concept can they cook up in the future? Turning Goku to a robot like transformers turn to robot animals in one show then went back to just regular vehicles? Maybe a great reset like DC did: the Infinity Crisis. Then everyone went back to square one. New drawings but same linearity.

@inkchariot6147

Жыл бұрын

"not canon" says who? Dragonball's canon has been fucked up since Dragonball Minus when Toriyama straight up ripped off Superman's parents sending him away to Earth.

@DirtyDev

Жыл бұрын

decent comment overall but Toriyama never had any plans to end the story after Frieza.

@exaltedfalcheon1793

Жыл бұрын

​@@inkchariot6147 yes

Character Regression is Necessary for Character Progression. Before Creation Comes Destruction

@TradFalange

Жыл бұрын

Correct

We now this video will be something

I've always said it before( super was a mistake )

maybe some people are right maybe some of the punches beerus threw actually damaged goku's brain more than that fall from childhood

Goku is more of a selfish person than a hero as his main interest in the story is to fight strong opponents rather than protecting the innocent. toyirama didn't like when the anime depicted him as a hero instead of following the manga version, in super i think they tried following Akira Toyirama's wish

The western version of Goku was completely different to the Japanese version of Goku. The problem is the western version of Goku is more in line with the Japanese version of Goku in DBS.

I’m so tired of people pretending that this change was exclusive to DBS. The slide away from technique and towards raw strength started the instant the phrase “power level” was attached to a tangible number. After that it just kept getting worse and worse. After a minor resurgence in using technique against a stronger opponent (aka the point of martial arts) on Namek, Goku goes Super Sayain and the whole point of martial arts flies out the window and it replaced with “big number means I’m strong!”

@chromephone

Жыл бұрын

True and super goku uses more strategy than z the last i remember is that he uses the fact freeza cant sense ki and as you said my good sir or ma'am this is before he went ssj stratagy wad carried by piccolo spicificly movie piccolo and that still is not enough

Cool video

Except ever since db power is EVERYTHING Master roshi literally says this no matter how much experience you have in fighting without power you're useless That z goku statement doesn't even make sense he literally got destroyed by raditz because he didn't have enough power🤦 Another example of z where power is everything his fight with freiza Freiza was literally toying with him because he lacked power until ssj which is a literal POWER BOOST Another example all the fights with buu Gohan got destroyed by buu multiple times Vegeta got destroyed by buu These 2 have many years of fighting experience but wheb they got over powered they almost got killed and needed help just run or straight up self destructed and still couldn't win There's multiple examples of why Power>>experience in db Goku didn't forget he got PROVEN WRONG by everything around him

@joshcooper467

Жыл бұрын

True but you need to understand that plot kicks in at every point and turn for these conflicts to happen. Raditz was strong enough to warrant both Goku and Piccolo teaming up to fight Him, Frieza while yes was in his final form after his previous three forms toyed with everyone, Goku included, but the impact that came from Goku's emotional state during the Super Saiyan transformation and the meaning behind it was all the more reason to believe that Goku could very well have killed Frieza but still held on to his ideals of mercy. Everything during the Android Saga was this issue, 17 and 18 being stronger than their future selves which eliminated all of the Z fighters, Cell constantly powering up from literally absorbing CITIES worth of people for biomass and energy so what did you think would happen when he absorbed the two androids? Perfection that's what. The buu saga is a total mess for a multitude of reasons they had way too many chances through every arc in Z to finish those arcs early. And if they did, it would be nowhere near as good as what we know it to be.

@thepremise4942

Жыл бұрын

@@joshcooper467 i get what you mean in terms of story this is all lovely and good for emotional impacts but his criticism to me doesn't make sense "Goku saying power is everything is character regression even tho he's been defeated multiple times that his lack of power is what resulted into he's loss" Goku never said power is everything but power is the superior element in a fight goku still trains with the concept of mind,body and spirit at hand Ui being a technique completely reliant on the state of mind Him creating his own version of ui that suits him and his saiyan nature And while all of this he's Trained his body Goku's character in super hasn't felt any kind of regression except that dumb scene from the super hero movie of course

@chrisbonds9871

Жыл бұрын

its still not necessarily true. those are bad examples because frieza was vastly superior to goku, so much so, that he needed some kind of power boost. and Buutenks and ultimate gohan were relative to the same power, but buu played mind games with gohan the whole time, plus his endurance is off the charts.

@thepremise4942

Жыл бұрын

@@chrisbonds9871 wrong gohan was getting out classed severely And you deadass ignored the fact gohan got destroyed by fat buu💀 Majin Vegeta got destroyed by fat buu a vegeta stronger Kid ssj2 gohan And probably ssj2 goku because he definitely got a zenkai boost after he healed Buu being on 4 times stronger than both of them Cell needed to hold back for goku to actually be a challenge 🤦 And raditz still destroys both Piccolo and goku which They needed gohan who was stronger than everybody there to weaken him and catch him off guard 🤦 Cell couldn't do jack sh*t against gohan because he lacked the power to do so and he's supposed to be only be 2 times stronger than before 💀 There's so many examples that shows Power>experience its not even funny Is power the only element important? No obviously Is it the most important element in a fight????? Yes it f*cking is And lets not forget the androids no battle experience at all a bunch of young adults just destroying the same people who have crazy amounts of battle experience

@150Hello

Жыл бұрын

​@Chris Bonds Nah in the Manga Buutenks immediately stomped Gohan, the Anime made it seem like it was close.

I've been hunting for the name of the ost in the background of this video for a while. Can someone please tell me what the song's name is? From the start to about 4:10

@SaiyanPodcast

4 ай бұрын

Listen to DBZ BT3 ost, has most of MajinBirds videos

It can be said that Goku was slapped in the face when meeting Beerus. His whole world was flipped discovering this realm of power far superior to his. They should have focused on his journey and need to get better. We can argue that because of this he’s so focused on strength to feel calm. Once he knows he can beat Whis, beerus, even Zeno, then he will go back to his old self.

😓 what have they done to my boi cuz

I could confidently provide many counterpoints to your arguments.

This is so facts man.. Toyo, Toriyama, & the dragon ball room ran out of creativity with this series unfortunately. Martial arts and fighting have endless possibilities, and they could absolutely flesh out other characters as well, but they just dont for whatever reason. They stick to the one trope each character has and run with it.

The writers felt that they had to kill Goku to make Super successful, and by a money standpoint it did work; however through the eyes of the fans we have only seen one of the most egregious character assassinations of all time.

goku admitting to beerus, he lost when the planet is in a win or die situation rubbed me the wrong way

If I recall correctly, Toriyama stated that he didn't like how the character of Goku was "ruined" in DBZ. His intention for Goku was for his motivation to be to fight strong guys, not to be a noble hero. So super turning him into a callous dick, is basically Toriyama "fixing" Goku. Not that I agree with this. I think that Goku is the biggest villain in Super.

@TradFalange

Жыл бұрын

Clown

@basimali619

Жыл бұрын

@@TradFalange exactly, this goku is what vegeta always called him as

True points.

The one problem I always had with Goku is that he too trusting some times you have to do bad things like killing pure evil villains the greater good

Take a breather and just remember that OG Dragon Ball is the OG and the best.

we love ✨retconning ✨

But why is the title stating that Toei "finally" unearthed an explaination when it's your interpretation on what Toyotarou/Toriyama done to the franchise? I enjoyed the video, though the caption is false advertised. If there wasn't a source from an interview or article, using the manga isn't definitive enough as an explaination on their execution.

I chalk it up to goku getting beat so much he is unlocking his sayian side

Goku only kills villians when absolutely necessary, the only exception being Yakon in the Buu saga which felt like overkill. He was willing to give Vegeta, Frieza, Cell and Buu a second chance despite their actions because ultimately he is a kind person. Kid Goku wasn't mature enough to do this, but Super Goku offering a second chance to the likes of Moro and Gas does make sense. Goku acknowledged his saiyan roots in Z, and you could argue that was him getting a sense of pride, but aside from acknowldging his saiyan roots and using them to achieve greater power he never truly embraced his saiyan side. Unlocking his lost memories of Bardock and thus truly understanding saiyan pride in Super still works, especially as it is allowing him develop his divine techniques to a greater level; Goku has known he was a saiyan for decades, only recently has he understood what that truly means to him. Goku does not view himself as any kind of hero, he does what he believes is right. His actions are objectively heroic but he does not do them out of a sense of heroism or justice, but simply because he knows that many of his opponents are wrong for their actions.

@exaltedfalcheon1793

Жыл бұрын

When did he give Cell or Buu another chance?

@angusclarke7239

Жыл бұрын

@@exaltedfalcheon1793 Giving Cell a senzu bean so he would be even with Gohan. With Buu he didn't, though he still wanted Buu to come back despite all he'd done

@exaltedfalcheon1793

Жыл бұрын

@@angusclarke7239 Goku knew what hidden power Gahn had and wanted to unleash it. How did he show mercy? Goku told Gohan to finish him off. For Buu, he wanted to make sure everyone else could protect the Earth when he was gone.

@angusclarke7239

Жыл бұрын

@@exaltedfalcheon1793 Goku believed Gohan had hidden power, and almost got him killed as he misunderstood his son's nature. Had he not given Cell the senzu then the fight would have been more in Gohan's favour without his SSJ2 transformation. With Buu, specifically kid Buu, killing him was the only option left. This Buu had spilt from the last of his goodness so there was no reason to keep him alive. Goku's desire for him to come back in some form is Goku wanting Buu to be better, so he doesn't have to kill him

I hate what they've done to goku since the franchise came back. Battle of gods usually gets a pass but recently ive come to understand his regression started in battle of gods when he acted out of character when he first encountered beerus he was acting more like cell saga vegeta. Then beerus flicks him away like kami did. The beginning of the end started there.

DBZ Goku Reminds me of dbs gogeta when he was fighting broly. He was ready to kill him for the greater good, and he had complete faith in himself. Now, it feels like vegeta is the brains and goku is the brawn.

Who made the painting at 0:04?

Nice try using the manga for the ToP when in the anime it's all about fighting someone that believes only in strength with character like Android 17 and Frieza. (all previous enemies btw) That panel from the manga also makes some sense considering all he learned during DBZ was of no use for characters like Beerus or Buu. He needed the strength more than anything. But hey, gotta find a way to hate! : - D

It's been almost 40 years. They just reset to make something that sells. End of story.

This is what happens when you try to continue a series that end of 20 years ago. Clearly, not enough passion and research was put into developing the story. Business corrupts everything at some point.

Ayo ending song?

Goku from my prospective Will tap into UI and UE mixing the 2 forms

The athur says goku only wants to fight and america made him a hero

I mean I get the confusion on the change in personality but at the end of the day he is a monkey man who punches people and I love him that way

Guys the reason goku is so dumb now is because beerus flicked him in the head and gave him brain damage, clearly.

Goku is transforming to Ben 10 ....

Akira Toriyama set the bar beyond the cosmos when he created DB & DBZ. Toyotaro is a great Manga Artist, yet his storytelling skills are far weaker than Toriyama’s in comparison to continual DBZ story development. Essentially, Toyotaro doesn’t truly understand DB, DBZ.. Goku & Co development of power & mental growth. Ironically enough, Well over 10 years ago, Toyotaro, then known as “Toyble” his own GT AF Sequel is Phenomenal. His storytelling Rivals Toriyama’s here. It is bcuz he was havin fun, doin his own thing. Anytime that happens, creativity continues to flow with no form of pressure or expectations. On one final note, too many fans Miss Rappa know who is actually saying when he was talking to his elder brother, Raditz. Power level is power/strength , speed, stamina, endurance, durability & “ki” energy. Shuffle specifically pointing out within the nearest of concept of a power level any fighter who solely focus is on the power/strength aspect, is doomed to fail sooner or later and that is not true essence of a fighter. This is the context that too many fans easily overlooked bcuz they are surface level thinkers.

He's like ben ten from alien force to omniverse

A GT Goku I’m Super would’ve been perfect for me.

It's not that goku spared Frieza because he wanted to or anyone for that matter just to fight them later, he didn't even want to kill kid buu. Goku since Krillin's death hasn't killed anyone, but with kid buu goku realize that he probably would never change since kid buu doesn't have sense to reason with and talk too he had to end it. But even when he threw the spirit bomb he still wished for kid buu to be reborn but as someone good. With everyone else with actual senses he hoped that they would stop and change for the better.

Guys goku's just practicing for his role in GT

The real character development is that Goku and Vegeta are rubbing off on each other.

why cant dragon ball super explain their absence and when they are returning?

Bruh straight facts in this video. Super Goku is an L. Z Goku is the GOAT

Someone should train an ai to make dragon ball in the style of other anime. Like a magical girl slice of life. A romance shojo. A psychological horror. Dragon ball if it were clannad.

He has dementia 😢

I think its cause hes becoming too powerful and is slowly losing himself to it. Or maybe all the concussions hes had are finally taking effect

@superloko9926

Жыл бұрын

Def nothing this deep

@khalilnevels8926

Жыл бұрын

He def not losing himself. That's Broly's gimmick, not Goku.

@Fighter_Enthusiast79

Жыл бұрын

Goku should stop headbutting people he's getting more dumber by the day.

About his Saiyan pride i kinda get it. He knew everything about the Saiyans by Vegeta, Nappa, Raditz, Freeza, Bystanders that got F by Saiyans... everyone only had shit to talk about your people no matter what. He did not had a good role model for his own understanding of Saiyan pride. For him, everyone were a bunch of savages with no remorse that like to fight. It's like someone saying you are a bad person because several members of your family did horrible things in the past: You can understand their point, you can live with it, fully realizing they are not you and you are different. But if someone tells you "wait a minute... not everyone was that bad..." can give you a new understanding of your own thoughts about your family, past and realization of pride.

My idea on why goku got this dumb is that in the 4 year time skip between z and super is he juzt forgot somethings about fighting since he likely didnt have z good fight until beerus and would spend more time cleaning up his messes then he would training

Dbz changed a lot of goku's characteristic in their dub originally goku was even in the Japanese version of Dbz is a person who fights for getting stronger and not for saving earth or with any moral goals so I believe super actually got him justice by showing us how he was suppose to be according to toriyama because If we need super power dude saving people we already have superman goku may be from the same past but has a very different genetics he is a literal warrior breed its in his DNA that Is what set him apart from superman

@specialnewb9821

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, Goku thinks the strong shouldn't bully the weak because beating up someone weaker makes for a terrible fight.

Its not that complicated. You cant have a heroes journey with a completed hero. If they wanted to run more dragon ball with goku they should have had it be Goku's space adventures between leaving named and reutrning to earth

Actually iirc Goku was going to end Moro however he merged into the earth meaning if he killed him planet would have exploded possibly including the Galaxy said Whis. But tbh Both DBZ Goku and DBS Goku are both pretty much same as DBZ Goku Gave cell a senzu bean same with DBS Manga goku giving Moro one. Rough example but still kinda shows that they're still same person they both have same IQ , Personality just how it was written i'd say

I agree, and there's no improvement for the character.

Goku scolds Vegeta for his pride in the Buu Saga, leading to Vegeta's most powerful speech about pride in the entire series. So I don't think Goku just "got it" in the Frieza Saga.

Problem with dbs is that we never get to see these dbs characters some training or atleast some screentime take idk every dbs character i mean all of dbs just all felt like it was rushed we disnt really get to have fun with the characters since it was moving to another character just keep on switching its nothing like the original dragon ball where we actually get to see goku and krillin adventure on life thats what dragon ball needs some adventure with the characters having fun and most importantly character development cuz it was really what made dragon ball z famous in the first place is its fun storyline i feel like dbs just lost its roots to what the show was originally all about.

Holy shit yes

I disagree with the Saiyan Pride part. I don't think you can argue that Goku was acting as a Saiyan against Frieza. Its more like he was standing up in Vegeta's stead. Being a Saiyan didn't really mean anything to him personally, but it meant everything to Vegeta. He is borrowing Vegeta's pride by representing him and his goal. Learning about Bardock makes more sense as a personal thing. He's learning about his father who, in this instance, is acting the same way he might at that moment. It means something for him now as he can see himself in his father, a Saiyan.

Logical Answer In 6 Months Time Jump Without Any Battle Goku Forgets Everything Expect His Friends,Family,Fighting He Might Forget Saiyan Pride Now He Is Again Pride Full Worrior Then In New Series It Will Retcon Again

The Monkey King parallels are constant in the show. So 🤷‍♂

He is just not Goku anymore, he is Kakarot

I don't really think that moment with gas counts. Gas wasn't really the villain. The planet wasn't in danger. Granolah and gas could just leave and no one would care.

If its his saiyan genes or lineage starting to appear sure but thats the only bullshit i can think of to justify this kek

Manz turn into Apple in super Says they giving upgrades but are u really?

Goku was so intellectual in dbz once i saw that hey bucko shit i was like oh nah still rate goku tho

Dragon ball super was literally the opportunity to give Gohan the role in his own story and Goku as a mentor but actually fun and maybe sprinkle some god ki in there why not, problem is that maybe they'll nerf Goku by then, *cough* boruto *cough*