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The thing is that cell himself pretty much stated that trunks in grade 3 ssj far surpassed him in power but he was just to slow for it to be effective because he couldn't land a hit

@bleeblah8184

Жыл бұрын

Yeah cell meant SSJ Grade 3 Trunks was stronger than his highly suppressed perfect form

@rrose9161

Жыл бұрын

@@bleeblah8184 there is literally no reason to think cell was talking about his suppressed power otherwise cell would not have made such a blatent statement when he could have just said haha I was suppressing myself / holding back so no when perfect cell said trunks as a grade 3 ssj was stronger than himself that means that ssj grade 3 trunks was stronger period further more when gohan went ssj2 for the first time trunks compared ssj2 to grade 3 ssj as far as power but no drawback and we know how ssj2 gohan vs cell turned out ( headcanon why)

@Elysian_Xeno

Жыл бұрын

@@rrose9161ut it does make sense Cell was suppressed and we know that and he never powered up further other then when he quickly mocked Trunks’s Grade 3 Form seeing as he was trolling him the whole time after Trunks transformed into Grade 3 and Piccolo deliberately stated Trunks’s Ki is higher then Suppressed Cell’s Ki then when Piccolo senses Goku’s half power he was terrified and when Gohan was fighting and Cell unleashed his full power against Gohan everyone was terrified and couldn’t believe it implying Cell is far stronger then they thought Then if we keep going in the guidebooks it states that SSJ Garde 4 has pushed the power of a super Saiyan to its previous limits and in that same guidebook it stated that SSJ Grade 3 was the limit of SSJ’s power then in DBZ El Manga Legendario it states SSJ Grade 3 Trunks was 10x stronger then Vegeta and it either meant SSJ Vegeta or SSJ Grade 2 Vegeta and then SSJ2 when Gohan transformed was compared to Vegeta going grade 2 just without muscle bulking stamina problems or muscle issues which would make grade 2 2x stronger then SSJ but with muscle and stamina issues unlike ssj2 and Base Vegeta was stronger then base trunks making grade 3 trunks that much more impressive SSJ 50x Base Form SSJ Grade 2 100x Base Form SSJ Grade 3 500x if it’s 10x SSJ Vegeta or 1,000x if it’s 10x Grade 2 Vegeta SSJ Grade 4 same as Grade 3 SSJ2 is 2x Grade 4 which would make SSJ2 either 1,000x or 2,000x base form

@rrose9161

Жыл бұрын

@@Elysian_Xeno I said cell himself said that trunks in grade 3 ssj was stronger than himself ( the only reason trunks did not defeat cell is because trunks was too slow in ssj 3rd grade to even hit cell, besides trunks compares gohan's ssj2 to his own grade 3 form in that it was similar in power but perfected without the loss of speed) nice multipliers but your incorrect about grade 4 ssj because it is just the grade 1 ssj without the stamina problem so yes it has the same 50x multiplier as the ssj form that beat frieza

@momotheone9700

10 ай бұрын

@@rrose9161 i hate when peole are always acting stupid, but another thing is cell was just showing trunks that he was not a great fighter, do you think that if trunks was really stronger than cell he would not have oneshotted cell with the first few hits he gave? That just proves it that he wasnt stronger than cell at full power, what cell said was in comparison to how vegeta handled his supressed power, but we know cell was not going all out because he realized the weakness of the grade 3 form, plus he saw how inexperience trunks really was as a fighter, it was so bad that cell literally replicated what trunks did by bulking up his muscle and exherting the same amount of power trunks did easily, compared to what gohan did to actual full power cell and what vegeta did to semi perfect cell, trunks did absolutely nothing to a supressed cell who was just joking around, if you were to just watch the damn episode you would easily have understood this

One thing I’ve noticed a lot of people kinda just brush off to the side is the context in how grades 2/3 increases power. It’s common knowledge the in DB, the body filling with ki is like a balloon filling with air. Ssj grade 4 is like tying the balloon, or preventing the air(ki) from being able to leak out. But grade 2/3 works by effectively stretching out the balloon so you can shove more air in (increasing body size to fit more ki). With grade 3 inflating the body so much, it restricts movement. Who’s to say that a possible “true grade 5” isn’t possible? A combination of the mastery from grade 4 with the size increase of grade 2. Then what about a grade 6? Maybe mastering grade 3 could over come the movement penalty and give us the strongest version of base ssj. Then that begs the question, why haven’t we seen this with ssj2/3. We know ssj3 was rendered obsolete before goku even mastered it, much less cared about grades, but what about ssj2? He had to at least get a grade 4 equivalent in order to unlock ssj3 presumably. Who even knows if that’s possible with those forms. At the start of super, tori wanted to add an ascended form of ssj that was as strong as ssj3 but looked like ssj1 (basically grade 4 but for the other forms). Who really knows what’s possible with ssj anymore, especially since they’ve been rendered obsolete

@boneman9751

Жыл бұрын

Coming back to this with an after thought, the solution to fix the most useless form and turn it into objectively the most useful form (not strongest, most useful) has been here the whole time and been staring us in the face and we just haven’t noticed it. Roshi’s max power form. This form causes not just roshis muscle mass to increase, but also increases the hight/length of his entire body. Of course biceps the size of basketballs are going to be too restrictive on the 5’9 goku, but they’re light work in comparison to a 7ft roshi because they’re actually proportional to his body. The only downside isn’t speed, but stamina, the very thing ssj grade 4 is designed to fix. The forgotten form from the 2nd ever arc of dragon ball is the secret to improving literally every single transformation in the series assuming you master it and get used to the stamina drain. This isn’t the only time in the series we see this either. Look at both brolys. S broly’s ikari form is him channeling the power increase of the great ape form without turning into the big monkey. What does this form do to him physically? Increases his hight and muscles to make room for the increase of ki, the balloon growing in size to hold more air. Same with the legendary transformation both have. That form must be some sort of mutation that breaks the regular ssj power cap. Normal ssj causes ki production to increase 50x (thus 50x power), but legendary must be like gigantism and have no way of stopping the increase causing exponential growth. How does both brolys bodies cope with this? They grow to 8-9ft tall and have giant muscles. When kale went through the transformation, everyone said she’d keep going until it killed her, and that is completely consistent with how we know ki works. How did goku kill z broly? His body was so over inflated with ki, goku shot a massive punch into his stomach which caused him to explode, like an overfilled balloon popping. This is also how vegeta killed cui and frieza killed krillin. Forcefully fill their bodies with ki until they pop like a balloon. Knowing this opens paradoras box of possibilities for every transformation across DB. We know a form has to do 2 things, increase ki production and increase ki storage. This is why piccolos giant namekian form doesn’t increase power, it only increases storage not production. You could apply this knowledge to any form or even incorporate it. Adding roshi’s max power form to ssj and then mastering the taxation it puts on the body would give you that hypothetical ssj grade 6. Since it’s not specific to ssj 1, you could have ssj3 grade 6. DB hero’s introduced ssr3, so who’s to say we couldn’t have ssb3 grade 6? Max power UE/UI. Max kaio-ken x20. This is something I wish we got more of in dragon ball. Understanding how these things like ki and transformations work. We wouldn’t have anywhere near as much power availing debate if we could just understand how and why things increase power and by what rate.

@basimali619

Жыл бұрын

Ssj 2 was originally called grade 5.

@matrix8847

Жыл бұрын

Ssj2 is grade 5 and ssj3 is grade 6 please do your damn research beforehand

@katnguyen9746

Жыл бұрын

Grade 3 can only work if the user has extremely good timing and only useful in close combat. Its bulk outright prevents that superspeed move the series is known for

@boneman9751

Жыл бұрын

@@matrix8847rewriting this because the original was unnecessarily rude. I specified in my comment “true grade 5” did I not? In order for me to specify “true,” I’d have to already know that a previous version exists. Assuming you and I both watched the whole video (the timing stamp proves I have), that information is even stated in the video. And the reason I call it a true grade 5 is because after grade 3, they no longer are direct improvements in the way you’d think them to be. Grade 2 takes the ground work of base ssj and improves apon it, with 3 taking 2 and doing the same. You’d think 4 is just more of what was presented in 3 but it’s not. It improves it in a completely different way than 2 and 3. Grade 4 is more like a grade 2 version 2. Same with “grades 5 and 6” aka ssj2 and 3. They don’t improve ssj the same way grade 4 does. Grade 4 is refinement while the other 2 is practically going ssj on top of ssj. The point being, what if you took all 3 of those methods and applies them all at once?

SSJ stays 50x. Plenty of sources re-affirm this number. The gap in power that Goku and Gohan covered at the Cell Games is made up for with much stronger base forms.

@Kakarot64.

Жыл бұрын

If anything the biggest points of the super saiyan specific training were to make it more power efficient so they don't burn through their energy reserves as quickly while fighting at higher levels plus the removal of the slight emotional altering the form did making users more prone to anger and overconfidence.

@elpopman2055

Жыл бұрын

Nope the Guidebook States Grade 4 is x10 Stronger then Grade. Cabba vs Vegeta Fight supports it

@marinomele4575

Жыл бұрын

​@@elpopman2055Wrong. EML Simply says grade 3 is X10 grade 2. But this doesen't mean Grade 4 has a similar increase as Goku literally explains how it simply fixes the stamina loss. He and Gohan got crazy powerful in the process. Proof: the famous SS multipliers were printed after the Buu Saga. And SS was still considered x50.

@elpopman2055

Жыл бұрын

@@marinomele4575 Wrong It Did Not Say x10 Stronger Then Grade 2.itt simply says x10 Stronger Then SS Form. Dragonball Gt Journal 43 States SS Grade 4 is Just as Powerful as Grade 3 but Without Drawbacks. Vegeta and Cabba had Same Base Power Levels.. But SS Cabba Could Not Damage SS Vegeta.

@jollygoodfellow3957

Жыл бұрын

@@elpopman2055 nope, I own that guide. I have scans of the Spanish version and I own the physical copy of the French version(which is the original because the publisher, Hachette, is a French company). It doesn't say Grade 3 is 10x SSJ. It says specifically about *Future Trunks* "Although he acquired a force 10x greater, the stiffness of his muscles spoil they power." It does not specify *what* it is 10x greater than.

I love that more people are recognizing this. People say “Oh he’s super Saiyan 2 level” like super Saiyan 2 is a set level 🤦🏿‍♂️

I agree with the multi you put on grade 2, but I disagree on you attributing the entire power increase to the form itself, because unless im forgetting something Vegeta's base power increased also.

@pIayingwithmahwii

Жыл бұрын

yes everyone's base power increased throughout the arc, especially from the training in the time chamber. and i say base power and not base form just cause i think they were mostly training in super saiyan or the higher grades, but still, the hard training in a tough environment like the time chamber undoubtedly increased their overall level of strength. like for the sake of argument let's say vegeta's base form was at a power level of 10,000,000 before he entered the time chamber. i'd argue his base after leaving his base would've been at least 15,000,000 or 20,000,000. (dont take these numbers to be perfectly accurate--im just using basic numbers here to keep it simple). so yeah i think a lot of the increase in power we see isn't just from the better multipliers of the higher grades. much of it comes from the fact that their base power, their overall power, got stronger simply as a result of the training. like when goku was training in the spaceship on his way to namek, he wasn't doing it to unlock a new form--he was just doing it to get stronger overall. this was still a benefit of training during the cell saga, their base forms were all getting stronger too

@Keiyon95

Жыл бұрын

​@@pIayingwithmahwiiSome people forget to realize that the base power increase is the biggest thing to take in consideration and that the transformations are just multipliers of what the person's base is

@jollygoodfellow3957

Жыл бұрын

Notice that MajinBird doesn't pin comments that disagree with him.

This was a great video. Very interesting to take a deeper look at each grade of SSJ.

This is a very interesting video, I have a somewhat different analysis on how they’re able to get stronger than only the 55 multiplier as a super Saiyan. However I do give credit to this very interesting Siri because I came in with something similar. I’m glad you covered this, I can’t wait to go over specifics p.l. that sets the tone for each arc afterward. I hope you’re ready, from the Ultimate Majin Bird Fan..

@sorayasayeh9135

Жыл бұрын

I'd like to think that perfected ssj is 100 times multiplier of base form

@pIayingwithmahwii

Жыл бұрын

@@sorayasayeh9135 how tho? its stated that ssj2 is a 100 times multiplier. i agree with you 100x has always felt a bit low for SSJ2. tbh i think gohan's insane power increase after he first unlocked ssj2 makes us feel like ssj2 is more of a boost than what it really is. but we have to remember that what we saw from gohan at the cell games was wayyy more than simply going from ssj1 grade 4 to ssj2. what we saw from gohan there was unlocking ssj2, yes. but it was also a rage boost, and on top of all that it was him unlocking some of his hidden potential! he got a ton of boosts all at the same time in that scene. as a result, gohan's overall power increased drastically at the same time as he unlocked ssj2--his boost in power wasn't Just from the new multiplier alone. it was a combination of a ton of boosts. let me give a hypothetical. let's say right after gohan unlocked ssj2 he powered down immediately and went back to ssj1 grade 4. i'd argue gohan's power in grade 4 in this scenario would be way higher than what it was when he first arrived at the cell games. his grade 4 would be way stronger than that very same form even a few minutes ago. how is this possible? because of the rage boost and the hidden potential unlock. like i'd be willing to bet he got so much stronger overall that even gohan's ssj1 grade 4 would've been enough to beat perfect cell (not super perfect) at that point! the rage boost and the hidden potential unlock increased his base power. not all of gohan's strength gain at the cell games was a result of just the ssj2's higher multiplier. for example i'm sure goku casually going ss2j when he powered up to fight majin vegeta was merely a 100x multiplier of base--it had none of the rage boost and no hidden potential unlock. i'm sure it wouldn't be nearly as impressive of a jump in power as what we saw from gohan at the cell games during that first ssj2 transformation

@linyenchin6773

Жыл бұрын

Not 55 but 50.

Thank god for you, i love your content

Very nice man

The SSJ grade 3 is the "SSJ Ultra" or "SSJ dai san-dankai". The power multiplier is canonically registered as 500x (10x the SSJ1 to be accurate). In terms of raw power, it's above all the other SSJ transformations. We have 50x for the SSJ1, 100x for SSJ2 (2x the SSJ1) and 400x for SSJ3 (4x the SSJ2). Sources: - Super Exciting Guide, p. 62 (for SSJ 1, 2 and 3 multipliers); - DRAGON BALL The legend of manga, vol. 38, p. 17 (for dai san dankai 10x the SSJ1). Anyway, brute strength isn't everything. The dai san dankai form is stronger than the SSJ3, but the power itself is almost useless because of the speed limitations. Also, this 500x multiplier doesn't stand for too long. The anime fight of Ultra Trunks against Cell is actually inaccurate, because at the original scene on the manga, he never hits Cell. If he actually managed to do this, as the anime shows, Cell would be in serious trouble. Some people even believe the dai san dankai is the worst transformation of the whole series, because it's totally useless.

@omaroropeza8117

Жыл бұрын

Where does it say 500x times base 😂 and why woukd grade 3 be better than ssj2 or grade 4

@omaroropeza8117

Жыл бұрын

Cell was stronger than trunks he was just holding back

@omaroropeza8117

Жыл бұрын

Why ssj3 have problems with energie but grade 3 doesn't you would think 100 times more would take more energie

@omaroropeza8117

Жыл бұрын

If it was 500 it would one shot cell easy

@silverfr3ak

Жыл бұрын

@@omaroropeza8117 Super Exciting Guide has the official info about SSJ 1, 2 and 3 multipliers. Page 62. There you can find the 50 x multiplier to SSJ 1 (and the rest I wrote). At the "DRAGON BALL The legend of manga", published by SHUEISHA also as an official guide, volume 38, p. 17, shows Trunks as grade 3 and the text below the image says "Trunks adquiere una fuerza 10 veces superior, pero su capacidad de movimiento es más limitada" (I only managed to find the spanish version).

You also have to remember during the “year” in the time chamber, their BASE PL would have risen as well.

@Invisibleboy999

9 ай бұрын

So would vegetas and trunks clearly its their super saiyan forms that makes the difference

@kanewilson8624

9 ай бұрын

@@Invisibleboy999 super forms are always a static multiplier

@Invisibleboy999

9 ай бұрын

🧢

the problem with this is that all saiyans base strength increased A LOT throughout this arc. i say base strength not necessarily base form cuz i think they did most of their training within the super saiyan form. that said, all their training definitely resulted in an overall increase in strength, which would naturally be applied to their base forms as well. not all of their strength gains come as a result of the different grades. of course the grades are superior to the super saiyan form goku had on namek, otherwise they wouldnt use them. but its difficult to tell exactly how much stronger these grades are from the regular super saiyan, given that all of their overall strength levels were simultaneously increasing too. like i find it incredibly hard to believe that base goku before he went into the time chamber is as strong as base goku would be if he powered down into his black aired form after the time chamber. let's just say for the sake of argument goku's base power level was 10 million while he was waiting for vegeta and trunks to get out (power levels not necessarily correct, im just using basic numbers here). i would bet his black hair base form power level would be at least 15 or 20 million after leaving the time chamber. so it's not so easy to say how much of the increased strength was a result of just training in a tough place like the time chamber, and how much of it was from the multiplier of the new grades.

@rrose9161

Жыл бұрын

I agree and that is precisely the fact of the matter

vids are lit

So, if it isn’t this and it is 50x, the only difference is that Goku and Gohan’s base forms are VASTLY beyond Vegeta and Trunks. Nothing exactly rejects that either, as even Goku firmly believes he is far above Vegeta at this point. That mf is one of few characters to really trust with a power level judgment. At the same time, this means Vegeta did even more work in the 7 years, which justifies the Majin situation a little bit more. EDIT: Another thing, Grade 4 has just one slight showing that it still exists, which is why I support your side more. In the U6 Tournament arc, Vegeta teaches Cabba Super Saiyan, and while he does deal a fair amount of damage, anyone who’s seen the series will know that this wouldn’t allow you to tank a punch on its own when you’re relative in power. You know what would? Vegeta having an 80x multiplier instead of Cabba’s 50, alongside his fatigue making it a 2x gap in power or more. That’s usually around the point where you can tank an attack with no damage. Well, SSJ1 v SSJ1, that’s exactly what Vegeta did with a punch to the forehead. If I’m mistaken and he already turned blue, my fault, caught the Mandela again

Fire vid

@MajinBird

Жыл бұрын

Thank you john

I've always had the thought that the original base super saiyan was 50K but once the ascended version came into the story, that multiplier sky-rocketed.

4:25 HUH? What? No, Goku stated Grade 4 is just the regular SSJ without any stamina depletion. What made you believe the increase is higher than Grade 2/3 is the simple fact Goku was that much stronger than Vegeta, they trained at SSJ Grade 1 until it became natural, it's likely that their training increased their base forms or gains exponentially to the point where their regular 50x is compensated.

SSJ grade 1 gives u 50x power SSJ grade 2 gives u 62.5x power SSJ grade 3 gives u 75x power but reduces speed SSJ grade 4 gives u only 50x power but it doesnt drain energy - it is mastered SSJ 2 gives u 100x power drains energy unlike SSJ grade 4, so basicaly stronger SSJ grade 1 SSJ 3 gives u 400x power but is possible to achive only trough some ocasions (like Goku being dead or Gotenks being fused) and drains astonishing ammount of energy.

@praggyalt9922

Жыл бұрын

grade 4 is also more powerful than grade one take the fight between vegeta and cabba in super when they faught in base they were equal but vegeta's ssj was more powerful than cabbas ssj so grade 4 must be more powerful i think that grade 4 is at least as high of a multiplier as grade 3 if not higher

@ryuk8534

Жыл бұрын

Im pretty sure Grade 4 is stronger than all the other ones. Its literally proven when goku says outright he's stronger than vegeta and trunks who have access to the other grades. Grade 4 is ssj that drains no energy but also has access to the same multiplier as grade 3 if he needed it without getting bulkier

@dripusmaximus

Жыл бұрын

@@ryuk8534 Let me explain (🤓), grade 4 is the fastest since there is no bulk and on top of that user can fight at full power for a long time. Compare that to grade 3 where movement is grately reduced, useg gets out of energy so fast that user cannot hit at full power, effectively making it weaker than grade 4. YES grade 4 is stronger, but has power multiplayer of 50. It is not all about power as it was literaly proven by Trunks vs Perfect Cell and Goku in room of spirit and time.

@Invisibleboy999

9 ай бұрын

@@dripusmaximus”its not all about power” even tho ssj grade 4 is far stronger then ssj grade 2 vegeta it obviously increases the multipliers

@powerlevelguy8054

7 ай бұрын

The Grade Forms are much stronger than you think.

I always thought a 50x multiplier was way too low. By that logic, Vegeta before landing on Earth would not be able to beat Frieza's 3rd form as a super saiyan. And Goku increased his strenght by way more than 50x just through the training he had and battles he fought until he met Frieza. Granted, it took him dying to gain that kind of power, but if that made him like 10000x stronger, then near-death experiences instead of actual death would probably still have increased his strength by way more than 50x

@abdulmoid267

Жыл бұрын

Well I personally think 50x is way too high of a multiplier 😅 Since transformations are instantaneous, so Goku basically became 50 times stronger against frieza out of nowhere (or you could say out of anger) bcoz frieza was so ridiculously strong at that time and the plot demanded that kind of a ridiculous multiplier , the subsequent ssj forms though are quite reasonable with their multipliers

@pIayingwithmahwii

Жыл бұрын

@@abdulmoid267 i completely agree with abdul moid here. 50 is a massive multiplier to get in a single instant. think about that, he was already the strongest of his friends, now he's always going to be at least FIFTY TIMES stronger than them! and i agree frieza was definitely way too strong. did he really have to be ONE THOUSAND TIMES stronger than his strongest underling? i would've made frieza's 100% max power level around 10 million (ideally a bit less but 10 mil is an easy number). that's still WAY stronger than anyone else, but not so strong that it requires giving goku such a massive jump in power. remember, after the ginyu fight goku got a zenkai that made him over 30x stronger in order for him to be anywhere near frieza's level of power in his 1% final form. thirty times!! in this scenario i would keep all other frieza form power levels the same as in the real story, and keep piccolo, gohan, and even vegeta all at the same power level as they are in the real story. this means they're all still way weaker than frieza's 10 million, so literally everything plays out the same. for example remember that vegeta at 30,000 still got DESTROYED by recoome at 40,000, so they all still lose to frieza here. now i would make goku's zenkai put him at 600,000 instead of 3,000,000, and have him only capable of going up to kaio ken x10. this would mean he still gets destroyed by frieza not even trying, so everything happens the same. and lastly i would make super saiyan a x20 boost instead of a x50, so this boost would still put goku solidly above frieza, but it isn't nearly as crazy of a boost as x50, which really does make humans basically useless. i'd also give the humans kaio-ken so that they can at least somewhere CLOSE to half goku's strength as a super saiyan if they stay up with their training and keep their strength somewhat close to goku's base form.

@sirsir9665

Жыл бұрын

Well it doesn't make sense. I don't think 50x would be enough against Frezia. Frezia just was way out his league up until Ssj

@DrsJacksonn

Жыл бұрын

@@abdulmoid267 It's supposed to be a legendary transformation, of course it's a ridiculously large increase.

@livingashtree1942

Жыл бұрын

​@@abdulmoid267A boost of 50 TIMES more overall raw power in consumption off a lot of energy and stamina. Super Saiyan originally was a explosive rush of power, a culminated heat if you will, that could only be awakened through pure rage... Or like how Tien used to describe it when Goku turned into a Super Saiyan, "like his body being on fire" Obviously x50 sounds like a lot but that's just the potential of Saiyan power, which is already said to be limitless in potential.. SSJ2 is another x50 that..

Interesting vid I always viewed the ssj1 grades as trying to control ssj1 power like no one actually used ssj at the full x50 power till grade 4 witch also could explain away why grades never got used again.

I could never tell if Vegeta & Trunks stayed in grade 2 during the Cell games, it seems like they may have at least partially mastered SSJ, they appear bulkier in the anime I'm pretty sure while in the manga less so, someone can correct me if I'm wrong though.

@marinomele4575

Жыл бұрын

They don't as they never took part in a big fight themselves. With the exception of the Cell Jrs where you can see Vegeta is buffed in a very tiny panel.

If you look at DBZ Kakarot. SSJ gives a 20% stat buff, when upgraded it goes up to 35% then 50%. Perhaps they are trying to imply that SSJ is actually a 50X multiplier. Goku and Gohan trained really hard in the Room of Spirit and Time. They spent many days training. While the rest were out fighting. So it's safer to assume that increase in fighting skill and capability makes the fighter more potent. Look at Jiren for example he's learned to fight instinctively and effectively to the point his punches felt real heavy according to goku. Then later Vegeta explained that Jiren's power isn't really far from Goku and Vegeta's power in terms of raw strength. Mastering transformations only mean you can reduce the exhaustion the forms give in order for the user to push the form to the maximum.

i think grade 4 is just a drainless infinite usage version of ssj until they power up which could probably just be like grade 3 in a more compact form

One thing to note about super saiyan is that with grades 1,2 and 3. The restless fealing increases with power and that when gohan achieved ssj2 initially gohan was out of control with rage just like how Goku was agianst frezia on namek and most likely Goku couldn’t control his rage in ssj3 in dragon ball gt you have initial ssj4 Goku and mastered ssj4 as well as out of control and stabilized golden ozzaru and regular raged out ozzaru and mastered ozzaru it makes sense with sayian and super saiyan transformations that there is a big and bigger learning curve with each consecutive power up which is why ssj3 is so unstable and power consuming and demanding on the body Goku might have achieved ssj3 but he hadn’t perfected the form we also don’t know when he learned it in the seven year time skip between cell and buu sagas

Honestly, I think the fans think about this stuff much harder than Toriyama thought about it.

I mean given how the Androids at that time eclipse Frieza, it makes sense why Grade 4 is a heavy multiplier

if they train as super saiyan they increase the super saiyan multiplier

@liltory3196

Жыл бұрын

Thank you, ur like the only one that said it. If we’re talking the frieza fight that he mentions before the cell saga, you can’t tell me that by the end of the fight, Goku is only at 150m. Think about it, he’s training the form and he’s getting zenkai

the air at your house would be goddamn *crisp*

For me it would be like this: False ssj: x40 ssj (basic): x50 ssj Grade 2:x60 ssj (Grade3):x65 ssj (Grade 3.5) (what Trunks used) x80 in power and x65 in speed (he'd be slower then a mastered ssj but equal in strength) Mssj:x80 ssj2 (basic):x100 Unused transformations are also listed here: ssj2 (grade 2):x120 ssj2 (Grade 3): x130 Mssj2: X180 (Only Vegeta and Goku have this in super) ssj3:x400 Ultra ssj3 (strongest hypothical form without god ki or magic):x1000 ssj4:x4000 mssj4:x5000 (used by Goku afte being powered up by everyone before omega shenron)

@WeeSentinel

Жыл бұрын

I like it

@livingashtree1942

Жыл бұрын

Actually it's more like this.. False SSJ: x25(unstable form) SSJ: x50 SSJ Grade 2: x500(Strength ⬆️ Speed⬇️ Stamina⬇️) SSJ Grade 3: x2500(Strength⬆️⬆️ Speed⬇️⬇️ Stamina⬇️⬇️) SSJ Grade 4/Full Power/Mastered SSJ: x500 SSJ2: x2500 SSJ3 "Limit Breaking form": initially x125 000(raw power cap comes with undued strain, the form itself encourages user to further reach for greater heights, is essentially limit breaking in nature) SSJ4 "Limit Breaker form" : initially x10 SSJ3(New evolved body with potential far beyond Saiyans former raw power limitations including elevated natural Saiyan abilities(Sharper fighting instincts, Heightened senses, Optimized adaptability, Improved power growth etc,.) Full Power SSJ4: x50 SSJ4

Yeah Mastered Ssj was insane with how much more strength it gave

I feel like everybody lowballs the drastic power escalation in/between each arc. Considering that Goku went from a roughly 10,000 base power level before heading to Namek to a colossal 3,000,000, it’s not super inaccurate to assume that jumping from planetary to star level to solar system level and so on would mean a power increase of thousands of times or more. Let’s look at Vegeta post time chamber. Super Vegeta (grade 2) is visually similar to SSB Evolution, implying that they’re mirror forms. Blue Evolution is comparable in scale to SSBK x20, in other words, a 20x increase from base SSB. Now I don’t wish to imply that Grade 2 makes the user 1000 times stronger, but again, if we power scale off of the IRL force needed to destroy a solar system vs only a star, it doesn’t sound super unrealistic. Grade 3, in function, is just an intensified version of grade 2 (evolved super saiyan), taking the bulking up of the body to its maximum. Where as grade 2 is a concentrated suppression of the evolved SSJ’s inflated power, the strength increase is so massive that the body can’t compensate. The muscle mass theory actually isn’t too silly when you consider that every “slim” figure that has bulked up in desperation (Freiza, Trunks, Cell, Buu) either ran out of stamina too quickly due to the muscle swelling being a symptom of slacking power, got weighed down too much by their muscles, or just transformed into a completely different form in an act of condensation. It’s such an inconsequential form that you could either hype it up as stronger than SSJ2 or weaker than grade 4 and nobody would care. Grade 4 (mastered super saiyan). When super saiyan’s efficiency is maximized to the point where ki expenditure is either minimal or none, allowing the user to wear it as if it were their base form. There are two theories for this form: 1. It’s literally grade 1 without the energy drain, attained by sustaining the form for prolonged periods of time. 2. It’s a direct mastery of the “evolved” state, allowing the user to harness the power of grades 2 and 3 without inflating their muscles beyond their bodies capabilities. Notice how Goku’s physique is similar to his base form before powering up to fight Cell, visually implying his “fits like a glove” usage of the form.

in the spanish outside media it says grade 3 made trunks' power 10X ssj so idk if that applies to the anime or just manga

Super Saiyan was always 50x and it never changed.

@MajinBird

7 ай бұрын

👀

@powerlevelguy8054

7 ай бұрын

@@MajinBird In the Super anime, Trunks shows that Grade 3 is a superior boost to Super Saiyan 2. This wouldn't be possible if MSSJ was superior to Grade 3.

You know now that i think about it, if trunks knew about the speed decrease and cell decides to hold back fighting and let trunks land a few hits, if trunks was to just get a grip on cell and pummel him near death and blast im on the spot he may have won

@seanpan9152

3 ай бұрын

yeah no cell was heavily suppressed if we wanted to he could powered up and overpowered him easily

Like seth said Incomplete super sayian is a 50x times buff that enough to destroy stars Full master super Saiyan can destroy half a solar system Then you have ssj2 that is low tier multiple solar system (not cell arc gohan who based was weaker than goku but ssj2 form push him to solar system level)

I disagree. You aren't taking into account the base power levels. For instance, with just plane super Saiyan, Vegeta wasn't too far off from imperfect Cell and Trunks was probably stronger than him due to him being a hybrid, as Hybrids have more latent potential. While I do think it increases the multiplier for every additional grade, what you suggest is just too much. I can see SSgrade2 as a 70 times boost and SSgrade3 as a 90x boost or equal to SS2 but with all the negatives. As for SSGrade4, it's probably just the 50x multiplier without drawbacks or somewhere between SSG2 and SSG3. 75x sounds fair and is more in line with the smaller numbers Akira Toriyama prefers. That would make SS2 either a 100x boost or a 150x boost.

Iirc is it stated later in super that SSJ2 and SSJ3 were ditched because of the high energy drain. So they focused to master SSJ1 even more. As much as releasing its full potential, in a way that SSJ Goku was as strong as SSJ3. Thats why we dont get to see 2 or 3 anymore.

Funny thing is Akira Toriyama said he believed SSJ was a 10x boost. And power levels ar arbitrary numbers with no real accuracy or validity. The fact that Android 16 was able to overpower perfect cell and hold him in place and Cell was afraid his bomb would actually take his life. Just proves power levels mean nothing. Characters win and lose fights to service the story.

What I know is that, When you train you stronger. Meaning that form multiplies the power you had and now have. 4:36 I like to think that Goku was doing better than Trunks while fighting Perfect Cell is because he trained harder ( Plot ) I guess?.. And the transformation multiplies it by 50X. Should I say 500X for the sake of the thumbnail.

Fax finally someone who knows other then me

@linyenchin6773

Жыл бұрын

Then is not than, why use it as such

Also there is a GT Guide that states Grade 4 is stronger than Grade 3 and so is SSJ2 in the Daizenshuu. SSJ2 is 2× SSJ but not necessarily the initial version, but 2× mastered form.

El Manga Legendario states Grade 3 Trunks is a 10x multiplier over Grade 1. We know Grade 4 is stronger than Grade 3, so that means Grade 4 is AT LEAST 10x stronger -- so Grade 4 is at least 500x multiplier. That makes SSJ2 at least a 1000x multiplier.

How do I send you fan art

@MajinBird

8 ай бұрын

you can send it to majinbirdfanmail@gmail.com thank you

vegeta got much stronger after his traning he could easily mop 18 with just regular super sayain.

Man, I'd kick a Super Saiyans butt easily. I just get a eraser that can erase ink, and hakia his ass lol

Y’all make all these convoluted videos. Ssj is stronger than YOU think because the multiplier applies to their base which gets stronger than they train……

Throughout the series the muscle mass increase is said to be a detriment to speed. By goku. By cell. Later by frieza.

1:43 HUH? Absolutely incorrect comparison. The Vegeta that got his shit pushed in by 18 was before he trained for an entire year. This Vegeta's SSJ was immeasurably weaker than the one who faced Cell before Grade 2. The comparison doesn't work. SSJ Trunks even at Grade 1 managed to get in front of Semi-P Cell and stop him, to which Semi-P Cell stopped, meaning even though SSJ Grade 1 isn't much stronger than Semi-P Cell, it's still enough to hold him back. This is the first incorrect comparison.

4:57 to be fair before it hit him Cell moved so it wouldn’t kill him

I think SSJ Grade 3 (bulky forms) could be used best in beam struggles since it multiplies power and not speed.

@googol572

Жыл бұрын

Since the introduction of super Saiyan god regular super Saiyan just wasn't useful anymore now that Goku and Vegeta have God techniques light-years above normal super Saiyan. But there is potential with brolly utilizing grades of super Saiyan with his ikari form, this I believe could be the perfect time to introduce a new strand of super Saiyan abilities (fresh concept) fused with brollys ikari power and possibly be a path of obtaining super Saiyan 4 (combining ikari and super Saiyan 3, turning grade ape, then controlling att that crazy power/great ape ikari). This could unlock super Saiyan 4 or a powered up variant of it. Like Primal super Saiyan 4 (ikari eyes, green aura with red electricity, larger body, violent tendencies much more than normal super Saiyan 4, more bloodlust but with some control).

@linyenchin6773

Жыл бұрын

​@@googol572the comment wasn't about garbage aka DBS BS but actual Dragonball.

Nice video

@MajinBird

Жыл бұрын

Thank you

@dwightnorton3398

Жыл бұрын

@@MajinBird Any time dude

Some people think ssj grade 4 is much higher and ssj2 is more closer to ssj3 multiplier

Super saiyan is very weak nowadays but back in the day it was insane

MajinBird is the word

I think it’s just base form power increases. I think Vegeta was probably more powerful than 18 but not enough to compensate for the infinity energy exploit. Base power level of maybe 4 million. I think when he came out of the time chamber his base was probably around 7-8 million. So we’ll say a SSJ power level of around 420 million. I’m not sure what the super vegeta power multiplier is, but I’ll high ball it at 650 million. I’m guessing semi-perfect cells power level was around 500-550 million. That would account for him still being able to damage vegeta, but still being thoroughly outclassed. Perfect cells power level I’d probably put around 1 billion initially. Goku and Gohan when they came out of the time chamber due to having trained for more efficiently I’m guessing were probably around 10-12 million putting their transformed states at a maximum of 600 million. I’m not sure what the full power super saiyan modifier is, so again I’d say maybe a max of 850 million. It’s clear during the cell games that perfect cell wasn’t really trying at the start so I think that’s a sensible level. Gohan was slightly more powerful than Gohan so I’d put him around 900 million going full kilter. The x2 modifier that SSJ2 grants is I’m guessing applied to the full power super saiyan transformation so that would put SSJ2 gohan around 1.8 billion. Full power perfect cell at this point I wouldn’t put beyond 1.2 billion. Super perfect cell probably around 1.5-1.6 billion. I’ve not put a huge amount of thought into it, but I think these numbers are sensible. When people put the numbers in the trillions and zillions I think it just starts getting silly.

There's a lot of bad math going on here. Regular SSJ is a 50x multiplier. If grade 1 is an additional 10x multiplier, that means it's 500x base form and not 60x. You go on to grade 3 and it becomes 2,500x. The guide book is simply wrong about SSJ2 being a 2x multiplier. Mastered SSJ is thousands of times stronger than base form and Grade 3 is stronger than it. Perfect Cell admits that Trunks in that state is "a wide gap stonger". Further proof that mastered SSJ is thousands of times stronger is in DBS manga where Mastered blue was beating around Fused Zamasu

Damn that niggas voice came out swinging

@gregkareem9824

Жыл бұрын

💀 w pfp

Advanced SSJ is 10 x SSJ but 500xBase Ultra SSJ is 15 x SSJ and 750xBase MSSJ is 20x SSJ and 1000xBase etc.

It’s so funny that it’s FACT that the SSJ multiplier is 50x because Goku has a 3 million power level when in the manga and anime Gohan states he can’t fell Goku ki and Krillen says it’s too low. Piccolo literally pulls Goku out the water as he doesn’t have the strength to do it himself. Goku states it hurts to laugh yet apparently his power with no recovery no healing no senzu is at 3 million

@googol572

Жыл бұрын

I sincerely believe Goku's power was less than 50% but his initial transformation/rage boost made his first initial appearance of super Saiyan more strong/dangerous because of how bulked up and uncontrollable super Saiyan was. I certain that he must have gotten a 100× boost, otherwise Frieza would have made quick work of Goku in his full powered state, or be in even fighting terms with Goku stating he was only at "half" the strength after he casted the spirit bomb on Frieza, and Goku could have gotten weaker, super Saiyan amped him definitely far beyond 50× base form, as he had no stamina and could barely stand before transforming.

I dont agree at all, MSSJ is just a regular 50x increase, its just mastered to the point there's no stamina/energy drain, and the power can all be used in battle instead of wasted, The difference in power between Goku/Gohan, and Trunks/Vegeta is because Goku and Gohan's base states were just much more powerful, and they didn't waste any energy powering up unlike Vegeta and Trunks who may aswell have been a sieve leaking out most of their power. Vegeta and Trunks decided to brute force more power out of the SSJ form which was the wrong path, Goku and Gohan decided the regular SSJ form was the optimal state, and despite Grade 2-3 being stronger, they were just worse than the regular SSJ state.

Super saiyan doesn't have a concrete numerical multiplayer. That 50× multiplayer was given by people who worked on the game in order to be significantly higher than kk×20. Notice how all the multiplayers are given in relation to other forms rather than a number. The actual multiplayer for ssj can be anything between 50 and infinity.

@linyenchin6773

Жыл бұрын

Lie. It is established as 50 by shit-for-brains akira Toriyama.

You know their is literally a guidebook called the el manga legendario that outright tells us the multiplier right? Initially its 50x Grade 2x is twice that making it 100x Grade 3 is x10. With it just saying grade 4 is the strongest. So in reality ss1 after the cell games is just vaguely above 500x. But we werent given an actual number to that last one unfortunately. But that makes ss2 1000x and ss3 is 4000. So this is actually pretty good since you didnt have that information beforehand. Most people just blindly say 50x

People forget the spirit bomb weaken final form Frieza as well ,so when he did transform 100% power final form he was truly half as strong he should be while having bad endurance which goku talk about

@Kakarot64.

Жыл бұрын

Goku was technically weakened when he went ssj as well though after the spirit bomb he was so fatigued from power usage and injuries that Piccolo had to drag him out of the sea.

@linyenchin6773

Жыл бұрын

Nonsense

Threven super saiyan grades slow you down.

dayum theses monke(s) are getting stronk

goku went ssj3 on namek?

Mmm I think it’s implied by people sensing vegeta on his way to fight second form cell that even in his regular super saiyan form he was potentially stronger than cell so the idea that grade 2 brings you from below android 18 level to above second form cell is a bit far fetched to me I think the increase is pretty marginal and that the real upside to mastered super saiyan is that you don’t burn energy by just being a super saiyan, I actually don’t think it is any stronger than regular super saiyan at all, it just doesn’t exhaust you and lets you put out consistent power and lets you keep the energy you would otherwise waste on the initial transformation I think the power increase is due to this and their base forms getting way stronger from the stress being super saiyan 24/7 put on their bodies paired with the training in the chamber As for grade 2 and 3, I actually think that both of these “transformations” have nothing to do with being a super saiyan and are actually closer to what frieza did to achieve 100% power or master roshi when he uses his full power (grade 3 is just pushing it so far that it’s a detriment) Cell pretty much points this out by showing that even he can do it after seeing it once and not being a super saiyan himself (unless you subscribe to the idea that cell actually is a super saiyan) Even grade 4 isn’t a unique super saiyan thing, golden frieza used a similar approach with his golden form in the TOP arc in super to better control it, he got better control and could consistently output more power, but I don’t think it’s a multiplier deal, it’s just maintaining peak power for longer Grading them from 1-5 implies a connection that isn’t there, they aren’t new ascended forms that build on eachother, just random branches like on a skill tree in a video game, super saiyan 2 is the only one that is a true ascended form and couldn’t be mimiced by people that aren’t super saiyans

if goku's mastered ssj is 80x base than if he also masterd ssj2 and ssj3 than his ssj2 would be 130x base and ssj 3 would be 430x base

👍

why didnt goku take the android threat seriously enough from the get-go ?

@pIayingwithmahwii

Жыл бұрын

why do you think he didnt? he trained piccolo up to a level of strength beyond frieza! i'd say that's taking it pretty serious, creating another warrior almost on the same level as a super saiyan

@burnttoast.2017

Жыл бұрын

he did, and then he got the dormant heart virus triggered.

Descended Super Saiyan We could just say that the characters grew stronger and can hide their power. No higher multiplier, just stronger characters. That's enough to explain everything that's seen there. Everything you mentioned about a higher level of super saiyan is as credible as saying their norm now makes the villain's power go down, causing them to appear to be stronger. It's pure speculation with no support. Super Saiyan Grade 3 This isn't actually a super saiyan form, either. This is just Trunks doing what Master Roshi and Freeza did. Pushing his energy into power at the cost of speed. Anyone with any form can do this. It didn't become obsolete after introduction, it was introduced before and was already obsolete. It's a flawed form to take, as Cell (and Goku) points out. Super Sayan Grade 4 This was only stated as being mastered in terms of no loss in stamina, meaning they don't get weaker as they hold the form and do not have to devote energy toward simply holding the form. It's never stated to be a higher multiplier. As they were always in the form at this point, there was no ability to compare to base, so again it's also something we can look at as their ability to control/hide their power, which they were always able to do. Final thoughts, this video doesn't take into consideration that characters can simply get stronger and have always known how to control their power. Not saying that it's impossible for the multiplier to change, but there is no evidence that it does and what we already understand about how things work in the show explains what happened perfectly without the need to change the multiplier.

I may be wrong but... i've saw in some official power level book that ssj grade 3 (The one trunks uses) has a x500 multiplier, being stronger than ssj3 but... at the cost of the speed as shown in the DBZ manga, where he actually didin't managed to land 1 single hit at perfect cell the entire fight The anime kinda threw the real concept of SSJ Grade 3 Trunks vs Perfect Cell to the trash can i guess.

The El Manga Legendário states that SSJ Grade 3, is 10× Grade 2.

He definitely could've not.

@WeeSentinel

Жыл бұрын

Grammar

@fatjoker2970

Жыл бұрын

@@WeeSentinel what about it?

@WeeSentinel

Жыл бұрын

@@fatjoker2970 that's a double negative which is an incorrect statement. "He definitely couldn't" That's what you meant to say

@fatjoker2970

Жыл бұрын

@@WeeSentinel "could have" in itself isn't a negative, hello? Theres a single negative in my initial comment

@gregkareem9824

Жыл бұрын

​@@VonB0902lots of ppl do unfortunately

Bro what did you watch mastered super saiyan is achieved when you make super saiyan act as your base form reserving stamina and energy so you would seem stronger

this is bad because super saiyan 2 wouldn't be able to handle cell like it did if these multipliers were anything accurate

if the ssj mastered was x80 the power of base then ssj2 wouldn't be much of an increase in comparison to ssj mastered that's would be just a 20% increase. What I think happens is that the increase of a ssj2 is x2 of a mastered ssj, with the mastered ssj being a normal 50x at all moments and the reason for goku and gohan's strength is due to their base power skyrocketing.

@death8156

Жыл бұрын

That would make sense as if remember correctly everyone in the story, especially Vegeta made a big fuss about being able to maintain super saiyan as a base form and powering up afterwards. So it felt more like what they were trying to highlight was more efficient use of super saiyan just before they mastered it, so maybe it's not so much the multiplier increasing as much as how they use it. At first I liked this idea, and even considered it but as you pointed out that would only make super saiyan two only twenty percent stronger. And with Gohan who was absolutely dominating Cell with absolute ease, even after realizing Goku in grade four never really stood a chance. It makes it seem like an extremely higher leap, not just a small twenty so while I like this idea in many ways. I feel as if it heavily downplays super saiyan two, and by just how far Gohan felt ahead it doesn't seem like a twenty percent increase.

@tahjsimon9058

Жыл бұрын

Remember that a huge part of Gohan's power was his hidden potential so it was ssj2 Gohan + controlled rage boost/hidden potential. It is why he was still stronger than Super perfect Cell after losing half his power.

@JC3178

Жыл бұрын

@@tahjsimon9058 that's also backed up by Vegeta stating in the Buu saga that Goku with SSJ2 was "as strong as Gohan was back then". Clearly Gohan was much stronger than just the base SSJ2 multiplier

@SuperbMoves

Жыл бұрын

that would mean z LSSJ Broly would be like twice the multiplier of a SSJ2 and his SSJ is already the strongest in Z as a single character

@pIayingwithmahwii

Жыл бұрын

@@JC3178 yes youre right gohan's strength boost during the cell games was a combination of all those things mentioned above. i'd argue that even if gohan powered down into ssj1 grade 4 immediately after unlocking ssj2, that his grade 4 itself after the transformation would still be significantly stronger than it was when he first arrived at the cell games. a lot of his increase in power in that scene was as a result of an overall increase in his power from the rage boost and the hidden potential unlock, not just resulting from the ssj2 multiplier alone. goku's ssj2 was at that level because his base had just became so strong as a result of his training. he got there the natural way if you will, no hidden potential or rage in goku's case.

If we look at the numbers there feels somthing off. Seme Perfect Cell = C17+ Imperfect Cell. Piccolo is stated stronger than SSJ Vegeta/Goku. C17 is stronger too. .. Semi Perfect Cell is at least 2x SSJ. in a low ball ( i thing its 3x or higher). If Grade 2 Vegeta ( Super Vegeta) is stronger than that. he needs to be more than a 100X stronger than before. Grade 3 is stronger, but we can just ignore that state. Perfect cell oneshots Super Vegeta with no effort. If we have a Fusion factor of C18-C17-Imperfect Cell than throw all numbers away. Grade 4 (goku) is a state Weaker than Full Power Cell, but stronger of the version that cell has in Cell VS trunks/Vegeta. MSSJ so so much stronger than SSJ State 1 / 2. IN DBZ you need at least 1,5 times the power of the Opponent to dominate them. C18 = 1,5 Times SSJ, Piccolo same level. Imperfect Cell too. 3 Times SSJ = Semi Perfect. Super vegeta = 4,5 SSJ. Perfect Cell (supressed) = 6,75 times SSJ (maybe more). MSSJ is stronger but not dominating Cell. Maybe 7X times SSJ. Fullpower Cell = Stronger than MSSJ. SSJ 2 (grade 5) = 2x MSSJ but not in battlepower. its Strenght. We have a MSSJ Goku who is stronger than 7x SSJ 1 Vegeta vs C18. Makes him 350X stronger than base before.

Pretty much all power ups through transformations time skips and traing arcs are done with multiplication

I've been thinking, since the Kaio-ken base is 2x the host and Kaio-ken x2 is double. Then wouldn't the Kaio-ken be these? Kaio-ken = x2 Kaio-ken x2 = x4 Kaio-ken x3 = x6 Kaio-ken x4 = x8 Kaio-ken x5 = x10 Kaio-ken x6 = x12 Kaio-ken x7 = x14 Kaio-ken x8 = x16 Kaio-ken x9 = x18 Kaio-ken x10 = x20 Kaio-ken x11 = x22 Kaio-ken x12 = x24 Kaio-ken x13 = x26 Kaio-ken x14 = x28 Kaio-ken x15 = x30 Kaio-ken x16 = x32 Kaio-ken x17 = x34 Kaio-ken x18 = x36 Kaio-ken x19 = x38 Kaio-ken x20 = x40 Maybe this explains why the strain is so great on a person's body. Which if we take Akira's word that Super Saiyan is 50x that of the current power of the time, then it is 50x40 = 2,000. But that is not counting to the fact goku had a massive power drop after using Kaio-ken x20, which should cut it down by the multiplier, 3 million by 40, so he would need a 4000x increase in power. Since Freeza doesn't seem to loose power from getting hurt at all. If he does. 60,000,000 / 40 = 1,500,000 Which is Goku's power when he pulled it off. His power dropping like a stone would leave him at 37,500 For him to be at 150 million, it would be 4,000x that power. This would still be the case if you say his power is a 20x. 60 million / 20 = 3,000,000 3 million / 20 = 1,500,000 Super Saiyan would have to be 100 fold increase.

@fatjoker2970

Жыл бұрын

Doesn't make that much sense. If Kaioken x20 was actually a 40 times increase, that would put Goku at 120 mil, which is the equivalent of 100% Final Form Frieza. If that was the case I'd assume Goku Kaioken x20 would just decimate the 50% Final Form Frieza he was fighting without any trouble and even be able to overpower Frieza's full strength, which is never implied. It being a simple x20 increase just works narratively, because that puts Goku exactly at the power level of 50% of Frieza's Final Form.

@Khaynizzle7

Жыл бұрын

Goku never says x2 though. It's always "kaio-ken" and then "x3" or "x4" etc.

@pIayingwithmahwii

Жыл бұрын

@@Khaynizzle7 he actually does say it unfortunately. but the original commenter is wrong regardless, because "kaio ken" and "kaio ken x2" are the same--they're both x2. But kaio ken x3 is x3, x10 is x10, and so on.

@Khaynizzle7

Жыл бұрын

@@pIayingwithmahwii ah shit lol my b. Thanks for clearing that up though.

Uh.... if the base increases then the X50 is still valid

Goku should honestly be way higher

Don't mess with DBZ fans. We don't even watch our own show.

1:59 "Vegeta, prior to ascending, was below Android 18 level" - False. Goku, first time becoming a Super Saiyan on Namek, had a base power level of 3 000 000. This was multiplied by 50 to produce a power level of 150 million. The Cyborg called "Android 18" has a permanent resting power level of 200 million. That disparity; 200÷ 150 = 1.3333333333, is the standard deviation of power progression established since Goku first took off his weighted cloathing to face Raditz and was solidified as to be standard qhen Vegeta hit Namek witn his ppwer level of 24 000 to easily outclass Qiwi who thouhht Vegeta was still his equal at a power level of 18 000(24 000 ÷ 18 000 = 1.3333333333). When Vegeta first roused his Super Saiyan potential, it was only after mastering "four hundred and fifty times nir.al gravity" in original and correct dub(as oppossd to the loe of kai making it 450 times Earth gravity). That is 4 500 times Eaeth Gravity and Goku proved that every 100 times gravity mastered, will grant a Saiyan 90 thousand points of power level. There are 45 segments of 100 × Earth gravity within 450 times Planet Vegeta aka "normal" gravity for Prroud Prince Vegeta. 45 × 90 thousand = 4 050 000 was Vegeta's power level after he mastered "four hundred and fifty times normal gravity." That 4 050 000 divided by Goku's previous 3 000 000 = 1.35 times more power level was required for short Vegeta tha Genius Goku to trigger the change into Super Saiyan.that 1.35 times 150 million = *202.5 million was Vegeta's power level when he first clashes with "Android 18" and her own power level of 200 million. YOU CAN'T SAY VEGETA HAD THE LOWER POWER LEVEL, she tricked him to burn off his power level by chasing her and even blasting iut massive amounts of ki in blowing up that giant oil tanker. She then attacked only when his power level dropped down to 150 million.* Noticed that Future trunks was intercepted by "Android 17" when he tried to help? That's because 17 is 1.3 times the power level of 18 and 17 didn't want a cjaracter around Veget's demonstrated level ganging up on 18 because he knew rhose three were all around the same level with 18 being inferior if the two Saiyans qere freshly powered up instead of tricked to waste ki till they power down without even noticing. Vegeta's 202.5 million became 3 times more after the Hyperbolic time chamber, this is verified by his interaction with Goku saying "you'd have to had tripled your power level to stand a chance against Cell(second form)!!" That's qhere vegeta smirks in confirmation and Goku gasps in shock as if his ki sense were feeling into the hidden power level that Vegeta was smuggly exposing before he blasted off to chase down "Impeefect Cell." At three times the 202.5 ower level that Vegeta had qhen facing "Android 18," Vegeta's newly gained 607.5 million was only 7.5 million above secondform Cell's 600 million(aka 5 × Frieza's power level on Namek). Because it was only a lottle greater than "Inperfect Cell," egeta had to bulk i to his first nameless form of the Super Saoyan, idiots call it "Super Saiyan Grade 2." That shift i to "Suoer Vegeta" as he calls himself then, is a 1.3 times the basic 50 × base ppwer level, making a total boost of 65 × his 12 150 000 = 789 750 000 was the power he used to supress second form Cell. He lost 30% of his normal Super Saiyan speed as trade for 30% more power level and then had to perform wat low class filth call "head games" in order to keep the initial shock factor going as he pummelled Cell with hits ge could have otherwise avoided if he were calm enough. That's part of why he made sure to show Vegeta true superior speed and power when he became "Perfect Cell" which makes him twice as fast qnd twice ans strong as he was before. *Yes: Perfect.Cell is o ly 10 times the power level of Frieza on Namek, making him 1.2 billion while Super Saiyan Vegeta was at 607.5 million and Goku after coming out of the Hyperbolic Time Chamer with Gohan, was at 800 million(same as Gohan, who only surges to 1.04 billion in fighting, 1,294,427,192 at max whe usig so called Master Saiyan levels of ki exertion. Which is 9 4 million more points of power level than Perfect Cell and should have been able to take him out if there was no stamina issue stopping Gohan). *"Vegeta, prior to ascending, was below Android 18 level" - False.*

@ThunderTrovoadas

Жыл бұрын

Made up power level numbers. Lol

So full power super saiyan is stronger than ssj3 because of the thumbnail? Nice…

So then how much is dbs broly ssj definitely massive since it’s stronger than blue evolution and kioken x20 it’s broly ssj form is around ui goku power and his fpssj form is tied with mui or above

4:04 wait didn't the el manga legendario say it was a 10x increase

@gakarotoson1826

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Then how tf did frieza beat kaioken x 10? Its a 50x

@zenkaiforms

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​@@gakarotoson1826did you get a wrong time stamp anyway I was referring to grade 3 trunks

@gakarotoson1826

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@@zenkaiforms ye i did get a bad time stamp

@jollygoodfellow3957

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Yes it did. It's sort of indirect though. It says "Trunks acquired a force 10x greater, but the stiffness of his muscles spoil that power." They don't say *what* it is 10x greater than.

He almost lost to frieza even with it

Cell tried to dodge Vegetas final flash bud. If he actually just stood there he would have died.

Vegeta should have mastered the great 2 form like Goku mastered the basic SSJ form - perhaps that would have been the sweetspot as it definitely made Vegeat stronger but didn't take his speed.

I think ssj2 is more than just 2x power up

No, mastered SSJ is still a 50x multiplier it just doesn’t drain Ki and the reason Goku did better against Cell than Trunks and Vegeta did is because he was just plain out stronger than them

Broly and Kale hair turn green it's not always yellow or golden

I've seen this done before, years ago. An unlisted seththeprogrammer video.

@MajinBird

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I think calling it a stolen video is a bit much. I understand if I was to have downloaded the video itself and reused some type of MP4 used or something like that but. It's my own script and I did take the time to edit it Now I was aware of this topic discussion some time ago made by him. And was inspired to recreate this once again, incorporating what I thought about the concept. But stealing is a bit slanderous in my opinion. And at the very least I would be "stealing" the idea not the video 😔

@kleboldklesold

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@@MajinBird After re-watching both videos I find that yours is transformative and does indeed have the added information you provide based on your thoughts on the topic rather than a one to one reproduction. I apologize if I've offended you. I'll edit my original comment. 🙌

Something to note: when goku and gohan came out of the time chamber they were in a relaxed SSJ form (50x multiplier) Goku then went to korin tower and powered up several times, let's say it was 3x to be conservative (150x multiplier on base) goku also said that was only about half of his maximum power, this would leave SSJ grade 4 with a 300x multiplier on base. And this is fairly conservative estimates. According to the el manga legendario databook ssj grade 3 had a 10x multiplier on SSJ (500x multiplier on base, but with the speed drawback). With this the 300x multiplier for ssj grade 4 seems like a fair low ball estimate as ssj grade 4 is at least relative to grade 3 in terms of pure power output

@loliconenjoyer9770

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Bro saw some slavonian el hermano fan legit books lol

@mattyd9344

Жыл бұрын

Thats not how forms work at all, Goku can control his power output while keeping the same 50x multiplier.

Grade 2 / Super Vegeta clearly leap frogs semi perfect cell in power , Anime it looks as if Cell Is confident against post ROSAT grade 1 SS Vegeta but shits himself when grade 2 is whipped out , vegeta obviously gained power to his base form and as a knock on to his regular SS form so it’s hard to access the multiplier, it would make sense for SS grade 1 x 50 grade 2 to be x125 grade 3 to be x 250 and grade 4 to be x 500 base multiplier anything else makes no sense if you look at the entire DBZ power levels stated in guide books this is concurrent with how toriyama scales his characters

Mastered super saiyan is as strong as super saiyan but no fatigued or stress when transforming and no rage

Your sense of reasoning is not reasonable. It's like emotional embellishment posed as if it were more coherent than it is... I mean you no ill will but that's saying a lot since I am only a jamaican-born black guy who is part chinese. I am not all that bright but I know the patterns that delineate power level progression throughout all of Dragonball. Did you realize Goku's low level bloodline, from birth until eposode 116 in the very moment Goku consumed the "Ultra Divine Water." That poisonois water ripped open Goku's Zenkai ratio whicb was previously only about 1/3rd that of Vegeta's 1.3333333333 × power level before dancing at death's door long enough to gain an epiphany to better use his power where he is revived to full life. In my head canon, Humans have Zenkai but they give only 1/10th the growth rate of a Saiyan. The top bloodlines(and anyone who unlocks Ki sense ok top of reaching Master Roshi's power level of 139) will have a Zenkai rate that is only one deviation below the lowest level Saiyan Zenkai, means theat Roshi surviving a bear death will make multiply his 139 by 1.0791015625 = 149.9951171875. If humans didn't have Zenkai then how is every taining season pushing them up by at least the same growth as a standard Senkai? I say people with Ki sense can emulate Saiyan growth rates by just training alongside them long enough. I say Krillin got a Zenkai of low level Saiyan rate when he was first wished back to life, he eve mensions it in that episode where he bigins ttraining against Tien while Goku was up on Kami's lookout learning aniut Ki sense or "ultra instinct" by modern lies of DBS BS.

Idk, I remember in the anime, when goku fought cell the final time, they were kinda evenly matched. They were about 80x during that fight. Then when Gohan swapped, Cell went full power and Goku said Cell was twice as strong...or only using half his power against Goku. So that would make Cell 160x? Which means that would make Cell stronger than SS2 Gohan. Idk, that's where my logic is, I think the numbers are a lil off somewhere. Especially since after Cell blows himself up and regenerates, he becomes even stronger. AND, fucks up Gohan's arm leaving him at half power, and SS2 Gohan still beat Cell (with a lil help of course) Also, I know the SSJ power increase is by 50x, and SS2 is supposed to be SSJ x 2...but it's Toriyama...I feel like this fool be pulling numbers and statements out of his ass sometimes.