Found out the double lip embouchure is a great aid to developing a better embouchure. Found out how important the upper lip is in forming your sound. Important info.

🤣🤣🤣 I'm teaching myself to play the clarinet. I just got it yesterday. I've been playing double lip because it feels better and I feel like I cover the mouth piece better and it gives me a more round sound. I didn't practice today because my used instrument didn't come with swab cloth and cork grease. But I can't wait to play tomorrow when they arrives from Amazon. Ok, time to finish video. I only saw the first minute. Time to learn more. 😊✌️

Love the deep dives on these things Jay. Can’t wait to take some of these ideas to the shed. Thanks!

@clarinetninja

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks James! It’s an honor that you watched it:)

I learned double lipped many years ago and never even knew there was a single lip version. Trying single lip feels entirely foreign and I don't like the sensation of the vibration to my teeth. I do the same with bass clarinet. I find I get a beautiful vibrato with the double lip as well as well as better tone.

@clarinetninja

Жыл бұрын

I learned that way too. Even now, I very occasionally have to remind myself to put my top teeth more firmly on the mouthpiece. This always feels weird given how much we are taught “don’t bite” I am confident I am not biting - but always a counterintuitive feeling for me

I have a top denture and got a clarinet yesterday! I found using my denture made creating a good embuchure very tricky! So took it out, and instinctively used a double lip... So much better!!

@clarinetninja

8 ай бұрын

Great! Enjoy the journey with the clarinet! :)

I love your explanations of voicing and double lip, these can be hard to describe but you do it very well. I switched to double lip about a year ago now but it took me a long time because double lip tired my embouchure much faster than single does. I tried to make the switch during college but since I was playing so much, I just couldn’t hold it for as long as I needed but towards the end started to manage a little more and can now do it full time. Needless to say it was very helpful to know just how much I was using my embouchure to play the clarinet instead of my air. It feels better than single now so I don’t see myself going back, for those trying to switch from single just keep going because the muscles can take a while to build. A lighter setup also helps.

@clarinetninja

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the kind words - and for watching my videos! As somebody that occasionally plays flute on Broadway, in addition to clarinet on the same book, it is almost impossible for me to play double lip full time. I am convinced it's a better way to play clarinet but tearing up one's top lip completely ruins a fair chance to make a sound on the flute. I admire you for making the switch. It's a better way to play clarinet. I think that everyone should be able to play double lip without pain. I concur that it is an extremely tiring way to play the clarinet. You are an efficiency expert playing double lipped!

Really awesome video brother thanks!🙏🙏🙏

@clarinetninja

Жыл бұрын

Thank you! Glad you liked it:)

Thank you for your video. I started playing double lip many many years ago and I went to my next teacher late James Joseph of the Northern Sinfonia Orchestra in the UK he change me to single up within a couple of weeks I could play better and longer so my own personal experience has been the other way round. God bless you. Bill. UK

Double lip is the way to go! If I have a new student on clarinet and they naturally got to double-lipped embouchure, I leave it alone. If they go to single lip, I leave it alone. I will only intervene if either embouchure causes issues for the student. Too many folks who play clarinet say double-lipped is wrong. They have no clue about the history of double-lipped embouchure and why some folks single-lipped. I have literature that discusses the change in the placement of the reed on the bottom lip and the "controversy" that resulted.

@clarinetninja

Жыл бұрын

That is great teaching!

@vainty

Жыл бұрын

You are a good teacher! amazing job

@manbonicbocambo

Жыл бұрын

I agree with you. For my senior year in college, I mainly used double lip for all my practices and performances. One prominent teacher asked me why I wasn't standing up to perform, so I explained that doing double lip and play standing was rather hard for me. Then he said "nobody uses double lip embouchure unless you are Elsa Verdher, and since you are not Elsa nor sound like her, you should go back to single lip and stand while performing." That was quite a blow. I learned that a double lip was the way to go when I attended Tom Ridenour's workshop, was very convinced, but no other teachers supported me on my effort. Everyone was like "what? Double lip on clarinet...? Never heard of that" and looked at me like I have had the wrong training.

Querido compañero, gracias, a mi me enseñaron doble labio, y luego simple, toco indistintamente en uno u otro, pero mayormente en simple, ya por costumbre, gran vídeo, y estupendo sonido, un placer escucharlo

@clarinetninja

Жыл бұрын

Thank you! Glad it was helpful:)

I switched to double lip very late in my clarinet playing while studying with David Weber. He did not make me switch. I switched because I kept squeaking in a passage of a piece I was working on at the time. Stopped squeaking immediately. I also get a lot of compliments on my sound. I'm also able to do the glissando in Rhapsody in Blue much better because of double lip. Wally Wallace stated that there are too many issues with double lipped embouchure. I asked him to describe two problems. He has yet to respond. This was approximately 2 months ago.

@clarinetninja

Жыл бұрын

I love Wally…it probably got swept up into a swirl of things and forgotten. I wonder why it is that the clarinet world moved away from double lip being the standard. I find that, if one doesn’t always play double lip, there can be endurance challenges. Sometimes I think that the trend towards a darker tone quality (and perhaps harder reeds) was part of it. I have never heard anybody address that. For me, as a person that sometimes plays flute at work as well, I can’t use it because it destroys my flute aperture. It is a great way to play in my book! Thanks for watching and commenting:)

@krommer66

Жыл бұрын

@@clarinetninja I like him, too. I bought my yamaha 875 custom alto on his recommendation. I think he's wonderful which is why I was a little disappointed when he never responded to my question.

Double lip is another way to play the clarinet and discover the importance of using resonance as a tool for expression. It opens you’re awareness as to ways you can achieve more resonance.

I've only recently discovered double lipped embouchure. I'm trying to get back into playing after many years, but my mouth has changed. I have a missing tooth on one side now, and my old style of single lip no longer works. I can't even go over the break like that because all the air goes out on one side of my mouth. Double lip still feels weird, and I squawk more often, but that's to be expected right now. At least I can hit notes in the upper register again.

@clarinetninja

6 ай бұрын

It takes a little bit before the double lip will feel normal. It is certainly less stable, but that will resolve itself with some patience :)

That was amazing

@clarinetninja

Жыл бұрын

I have no choice but to believe every word you say:) thanks for watching!

@lyndafoster9437

Жыл бұрын

And I play the flute as well. Just started the clarinet. Love the clarinet !! 💃🏻

Hi! I'm a pre professional clarinetist in france and I've found about double lips 2 years ago, In France nobody play with this technique since the 50's, moreover in France we use a very centered tone wich need a lot a presure on the teeths so the double lips isnt possible. However, during my everyday practice, I use the double lips during my scales, not that much, but just to really feel my breath, my flow. It helps me a lot to detect whenever I'm stressed in my air.

@clarinetninja

Жыл бұрын

Few people actually perform this way in the US either, but it is a terrific way to make sure everything is “right” in the way we are plying. Sounds like you agree:) Thanks for watching and for the comment

@karjenjrtm7411

Жыл бұрын

@@clarinetninja personaly, it help me with my air but also with my tongue; sometimes my tongue is not as high as it should be. Sometimes i'm a clarinet professor and I'm honestly considering a lot about talking to my students about this technique, it is great from u to make vidéo about that :)

@karjenjrtm7411

Жыл бұрын

@@clarinetninja also, maybe if u choose a specific mouthpiece and adapted Reeds u could have a great result with double lips, but if u keep ur single lips material maybe thats not that good to play double lips as main technique. For exemple, is the mouth piece cushion useful for the double lips ?

@clarinetninja

Жыл бұрын

@@karjenjrtm7411 the cushion is definitely there for single lip. I don’t think it’s an problem for the double lip though. I don’t think I want to perform double lip. I like how it works in my practice routine to just pallet a few minutes a day double lip. I would probably switch to a less resistant mouthpiece if I were to switch to playing that way all the time.

@davideichler5105

5 ай бұрын

I might be wrong, but it looks to me as though Paul Meyer might be using double lip. As for the French school of clarinet playing, from what I know about it, it doesn't seem as though it should require any unusual amount of embouchure pressure, and I believe there are still some French players who still use what used to be called the "French" embouchure.

Hello Jay, thank you for this video. I've had this question for years and hopefully you can help me out. I was taught to roll both lips in and pull the corners of the lips as far away from the mouthpiece as possible to create a thin flat contact point. (I hope this is correct so far.) But the closing of the lips is where I find it confusing. Some say to bring the end of the lips inward (rather easy to do but it loosens the flat platform of the bottom lip and adds more surface area to the reed) and some say to keep "smiling" with the lip ends pulled away from the mouthpiece so the platform will remain flat and won't hinder the reed from vibrating by adding more surface point. I find the former easier to do but I lose the backbone of the tone. The latter seems to be the right approach, but I have the hardest time not letting the air leak because the lips that touch the side edges of the mouthpiece don't close well. If I try to really close it, then I'll be adding extra pressure from the top that defeats the purpose of double lip embouchure because I'll be biting. Which way sounds more correct, pull string lip or smiling lip? And what exercises should I be doing for the air leak if smiling is the way to go? Thank you in advance. And thank you for all the other videos you took time to post.

@clarinetninja

Жыл бұрын

You bring up good points about how we make an embouchure and even more importantly how we talk about making an embouchure. First, let me say that I find the way one person experiences the words and results can be quite different than another. Sometimes, people can be using the same words, but be actually doing an entirely different thing, I have never thought of "smiling" when I play. If that works for somebody and they are getting the sound and control that they desire - I think they should continue to do that. From a conceptual place - I think the amount of cushion the reed has and the amount of pressure on the reed are the biggest contributors to how the reed plays. The idea of smiling will thin out the bottom lip a little and the reed will have a harder contact point and will lose some vibration. At the same time, it will be more stable. If you a play double lipped without causing serious pain to your top lip I would think that you are not biting (at least to my definition of biting). I have always thought of brining my corners in. As far as leaking goes - I have a lot of experience with that! The number one thing that needed to happen for me was to become hyper aware of it. I found that I could be leaking air and not notice because I was so used to having that in my sound. It would be happening without a real awareness on my part. It was not until I noticed it all the time that I was able to employ a strategy to fix it. Leaking can happen if one is either too tight or too loose with their embouchure. I have an exercise for single lip that was helpful to me. I can't really explain it in words, but I will make a video about it soon. After making this double lip video, I had a long talk with a famous clarinetist who is also a periodontist. I have not edited it together yet, but one of the things that came from it was illuminating for me; having our top lip over our teeth more naturally puts our oral cavity in proper position to play clarinet. As far as leaking air when playing double lip, I would imagine it comes from being too tight with our lips rather than too loose. This has gotten to be a long response...I hope there is something helpful in here :)

@manbonicbocambo

Жыл бұрын

@@clarinetninja thank you Jay for your reply, I appreciate it very much. I think I'll just have to try both to find out what people mean when they say either "smile" or "bring the corners in". What a complicated world I've put my foot into:{ I'll remember what you said about the oral cavity next time I practice. I'll see how and what I'm changing from double to single. Thank you again!

i’ve played double lipped for five years and really only did single lipped for marching band.

@clarinetninja

Жыл бұрын

It would be hard to play double lipped in marching band! Smart choice

The content is very good but i wonder if it could be possible that you show both hands of the clarinet nut just he above one and al 13:00

@clarinetninja

5 ай бұрын

In that moment - the hand you cant see is not doing anything. You make a good point - in all honesty it is my body image that keeps the camera from showing that as I don't like to show off how big my tummy is lol

At the beginning of your excellent video, you mentioned that you started off playing double-lipped, but don't remember why. I may have an answer for you, let me know. You're not as old as I am, but we both began playing about the same age. I began playing alto saxophone in 5th grade (about 1955) on my older brother's pre-war Buescher. Putting my teeth on the mouthpiece nearly rattled the teeth out of my head. So I played double-lipped and loved it. I don't know if there were mouthpiece pads back then, but I didn't have one. Even today I nearly always play alto sax double-lipped, just because the sound is lovely. Admittedly the sax is bigger and heavier than the Bb clarinet, but I suspect some kids would find the teeth-on-plastic/hard rubber vibrations troubling.

@clarinetninja

Жыл бұрын

I think you are probably right about my initial reaction to my teeth vibrating on the mouthpiece. My memory is foggy on whether my first teacher told me play double lipped or not... There is no chance the memory will become more clear to me lol. I do use a mouthpiece patch at this point, but I have "only" been using that for the past 20 years. There was a long period where I did not use one - even as a grown up. Either way - it is a revealing way to practice even though I don't perform double lipped I get a lot our of practicing that way.

Especially if you don't have any upper teeth? If that's the case it's gum double lip and very little bite down : ) Talk about tactile! When I last played on a regular basis (school band) 10 years old, my teeth made a pronounced 'indentation'.

Awesome video! Super valuable information and context for a college clarinetist like me.

@clarinetninja

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Joey! That means the world to me:)

Hi there! When I play on my mouthpiece i get a E flat consistently, should I practice to lower it down to C consistently? Or voicing a half step higher is not bad necessarily? I am frustrated 😅

@clarinetninja

9 ай бұрын

Hi! I would straddle the line of constructive frustration :) A half step higher is going to create a challenge with flexibility - which is only a problem to the degree that it is a problem to you (does that make sense?) It will make your clarinet a little sharper in general, but nothing particularly unmanageable. I would put effort into getting it down to a C - but I would encourage you not to get too frustrated about it :)

@clarinete09

9 ай бұрын

@@clarinetninjathank you! Indeed it makes me sharp most of the time, any particular exercise you'd recommend to lower my voicing? I am thinking lots of practice with a drone note and mouthpiece only.

@clarinetninja

9 ай бұрын

Send me an email at Theclarinetninja@gmail.com and I will send you a pdf and a link to a non public video I made about pitch flexibility that I made. That will get the pitch down

@clarinete09

9 ай бұрын

@@clarinetninja thank you much!

Today was my second day of learning the clarinet. Yesterday, I spent blowing single lipped into just the mouthpiece and barrel, but rarely made any sound unless I blew extremely strongly. Today, I watched your video (and Tom Ridenour's) on double lipping. Using the technique, I got a consistent sound immediately. Also tried single lipping again and could produce a sound, but not as easily and it didn't feel so great on my teeth. I have no intention of becoming a professional or playing the flute (but hopefully the bass clarinet), so getting a good sound takes priority. I have two lips, why not use them both? Thanks much for the lesson!

@clarinetninja

Жыл бұрын

Hi Steven! Thank you for sharing that with me. I am happy that I put something into the world that was beneficial to you. I will try and do more if it:)

I womder if could be seen that you do not use the register key for playing the same notes thank you interesting subjectas

Okay, that last bit (14:23) is impressive and past my current ability? Hey! no, it's my out of the box reeds (haven't received my cheap tools yet) yeah that's the ticket, bad reeds!

Regular use of double-lip embouchure can be problematic for those with sharp upper front teeth, like me. Besides which, Joe Allard's technique for single-lip embouchure will give you the benefit of double-lip without the discomfort, though it takes a while to learn if you are used to a conventional single-lip method.

@clarinetninja

5 ай бұрын

I agree with your assessment. I don't think I said anything about Allard and his ideas in the video, but it was part, or perhaps most, of what led me to the feelings I have about why to practice, at times, double lipped.

@davideichler5105

5 ай бұрын

@@clarinetninja , if you have learned the Allard single-lip method well, playing double -lip from time to time might be a way of checking that you are not unconsciously sliding into bad habits with single-lip. It seems to be for me.

Very interesting, but I still don't get how you play clarion range notes without pressing the dreaded reg key. What are you doing with your embouchure to change the pitch?

@clarinetninja

2 жыл бұрын

Hi Larry! Thanks for watching and commenting! It's not an embouchure change. The way that I think of it - could be summed up this way - Our embouchure sets up for the potential for things to happen or not happen. Our voicing (a general term that in some way includes components of embouchure but includes the shape of our mouth, tongue position, embouchure, pressure on the reed, and air) is what creates the actual ability to play the clarion register without the register key. My thought is that the main "setting" in our voicing should be what it is to play the "G" above the staff without the register key. Slurring from "C" below the staff to "G" above the staff - then releasing the register key should inform us if we are in the ballpark. The way we play the low register should set us up for success in the upper register. Of course, the first notes we all play are without the register key. We also all tend to intuitively think that the way we produce those first notes is the main "setting" in our voicing (although in that moment of intuition we don't know what voicing is). I think this is also related to your clarinet being "wet" if I understand what you mean when you say that. I hope some of this helps:)

@LarryShone

2 жыл бұрын

@@clarinetninja I'm afraid its all over my head. And when I say wet I mean there's a lot of water in the instrument from playing, and blowing is always hard

PSA to any students in school, afaik double lip is not braces-friendly.

How can you play technically difficult things when you double lip? It seems impossible because of bad stability to the embouchure. I occasionally practice double lip, very little, usually during slow, lyrical passages. I can't stand the lack of stability I get playing that way. Although I can feel the other benefits It gives, In most of my playing It's not usable.

@clarinetninja

Жыл бұрын

My thought would be this - perhaps that's one of the things that the double lip practice can offer you - being less reliant on your embouchure in or order to feel confident in the holding of the clarinet. The clarinet doesn't feel that much different in my hands or balance when I play double lip. I can, at times, feel in my top lip when I am tempted to bite down harder than I should. I tend not to notice that when I am playing single lipped. ' I am just guessing at this since I have never seen nor heard you play, but based on what you are saying, I would entertain this as an idea

@jimis3167

Жыл бұрын

@@clarinetninja Maybe because I always play standing up, rarely sitting. That affects the double lip stability when I have fast passages with side keys, e.t.c. The sound effect of the double lip is very apparent to me when playing slowly, It makes a bigger, more colorful sound, It's pretty amazing. Also when notes are at a normal speed, I can bare using double lip, legato is exceptional. I would add to what you say, double lip is probably the best way to understand If reed is properly broken-in and It got Its best form.

@clarinetninja

Жыл бұрын

Standing increases the difficulty by a lot. If I were to play shaming and double lip I would certainly use a neck strap

@jimis3167

Жыл бұрын

@@clarinetninja I currently use BG CCE but It doesn't make double lip any easier, maybe because I prefer elastic chord. A non elastic chord would do better at double lip but you don't have freedom in your movement.

I play double lip...and think is the better way

@clarinetninja

2 жыл бұрын

It probably is a better way to play. I totally agree. It doesn’t work out from a practical standpoint. It does create an environment for the reed to do what it is supposed to. Thanks for watching:)

@pablodevadderclarinete

2 жыл бұрын

@@clarinetninja one thing is that It is very difficult to play with facings more open than 1.05, 1.08. even with soft reeds (for me, obviously). But with a close mouthpiece and even with not too hard reeds like 3 1/2, you can make huge volumen and maintain a great control in all registers. Some close mouthpieces like M13lyre that has wider tip rails aren't good for articulations :/ and some like D'Addario XO, I feel have very high resistance that is not very good for me

Why is it that everyone who does a video on double lip say that single lip is their normal way of playing?

@clarinetninja

Жыл бұрын

That is a great question. Thanks for asking. I can answer for myself - as somebody that plays flute at times on gigs that also include clarinet, smashing my upper lip in that was is not a way that I can regularly play the clarinet. As far as in general why that is the case, I can only assume that the extra weight that goes to our right thumb is something that people find to be too much of a detriment. Also I think that people, including me at times, are used to putting more pressure on the mouthpiece with our teeth than we should. Nobody likes to acknowledge this. This is what lead to my conclusion that, for me, the best thing is to practice double lipped and transfer that feeling as much as possible to a single lip. I had a conversation with Ron Odrich who is a world class clarinetist and periodontist. It is going to be made into a video here soon. He spoke about how the muscles in our mouth and face create differences in our oral cavity. It gave me more ideas that the double lip “feeling” had more impact in not so obvious ways on tone production. That will be out soon and may she’s more light on your very relevant question

@manbonicbocambo

Жыл бұрын

I can add more reasons why... The mouth gets tired faster, is the main thing. Also, like Jay had already mentioned, it adds so much more weight on the right thumb. And unless you have the perfect upper teeth alignment (which I don't have), rolling in your upper lip can be very awkward and painful. I believe the players who stand and perform will prefer a single lip for that reason. It sounds way better with a double lip though, that's why I still cannot dismiss "double lip time" in my practice. It helps me remember what tone I should be going after.

Turn around the mouthpiece!!!!

I think I play pretty good after 40 years and I dont have any of my teeth covered with lip tissue! Just a good old open sax embrouchure, never had a problem, I have a full sound. So, what's all this double lip stuff?? 🤔👎👎

@clarinetninja

Жыл бұрын

To me, it is two things: a way to find the path to a fully functional single lip embouchure - and a way that was the primary way to play clarinet until the 1960’s To my understanding, it can bring people to an amount of (or lack) of jaw pressure that is fully in alignment with Allards teaching and a way to naturally raise the soft palate unconsciously. Certainly nothing to give a thumbs down to:) if it’s of no use to you - apologies for wasting your time:)

@picashlio3361

6 ай бұрын

A good musician can make even a tin instrument sound good, is what my music teacher used to say. You play open embouchure and make it sound great, I'm sure. There's nothing wrong with that, my friend. Just because something (like single lip) is traditional doesn't make it always right. To each their own. Edit: spelling