Great guide! On a sidenote, one fun thing with Vaettiheim in DE is that the twiceborn/transformation trick is basically supercharged due to Become Octopus. For 15 gems you can turn a Vaetti Gygja into a Leviathan chassi, a ~150hp, 19 natprot, trampling monstrosity with access to basically the ideal set of buffs for such a creature; quicken self+GotH, mossbody, regen, elemental fortitude etc, and also often things like body ethereal, astral shield or soul vortex. Each is basically a heavy thug for 15 gems.

@LucidTactics

2 жыл бұрын

Sounds very spookie!

For early game formations there's always Mound Kings at Ench 2.

Nice overview, and I'm looking forward to seeing the dastardly gobbo raids. Also, at 1:39:50 the sound cut out for me for a little bit until 1:45:00

A few other comments: Wolf Brother expansion, reinforced with Riders from forests, is insanely good. It seems like they wouldn't do well into heavily-armored LA indies and into cavalry, but they do fine. D2 hags with twiceborn on them are pretty expendable since they come back, but you don't want to just suicide them. Once you have alt6, put some death gems on them and send them off as solo stealth raiders into PD. They can cast invulnerability, soul vortex, and mossbody -- this will kill a lot of stuff, and if they don't kill whatever they hit, they come back. A lot of the animals you get from Transformation make decent raiders too.

Is it just me, or does the video freeze at around 1:40:00 - 1:45:00 for like 5 minutes and pick up as if there's a chunk missing?

@callumfinlayson-palmer8393

2 жыл бұрын

I was going to comment something to the same effect. You just saved me 4 mins haha

Oh boy, I am getting spoiled with all those uploads... not that I mind :D

Nice trick is to twiceborn->transform underwater with ring of waterbreating and get it from water to land with shambler skin. Water has 50% of transformation of size 4/5/6 so converting any size to size 4-6 wight mage is viable for 5-10 death gems + thistle mace build once + death staff build once+ transformation cost (8n).

@Ragatokk

2 жыл бұрын

Thought a bunch of the water transformations did not have a chest slot, so you would need an amulet of the fish. And as you would rather want to use them in a fight than suicide them it seems quite expensive to do it this way.

@MeTechmind

2 жыл бұрын

​@@Ragatokk 13-18 gems seems okay for size 4 sc undead chassi. This is bane lord(10) worth of gems and y pay 3-8 gems for magic paths on that bane lord too (with no gear).

@LucidTactics

2 жыл бұрын

Ah cool didnt think to use UW for transformation.

@Ragatokk

2 жыл бұрын

@@MeTechmind Well, I can see a good argument for just doing it with as many as you have the water and air gems for if you have someone that can craft amulet of the fish. Empowering works fine, but its not cheap.

Ilwinter+Astral Corruption+all 4 Dwarves of the 4 directions is an extremely devastating late game state for all non blood nations in the game. Of course you need a pretender, or a ton of luck with indies and empowerments, to get it done but having good A+E access from your pretender is generally good not just for the rather meme Dwarves of the 4 directions spell. This tactic is obviously better for Jotunheim in an age with significantly less blood nations but Vaettiheim and Utgard too for that matter, can pull it off just fine as well if you're ready to declare war on the rest of the world.

“Could have gone better” lmao, I think you more than showed your point man haha 👌 as someone starting with abyssia, this opening was terrifying 😅

This is great, Lucid. I can't wait to see the game. (I'm curious about your pretender, for one thing.) Thanks!

They are my favorite nation in LA. I play DE, and am kinda intermediate/casual player, and I ran over some pretty hard vets with them. Never quite got to exploit the good early game, in part due to being unable to cast mommy oak. And, mostly, because I'm shit at scripting. regardless of this, I know a few guys who still have nightmares about rimvaettis and berserkers...

The Hags are some of the most cost-efficient researchers in the game! 40 gold for 8 RP is fantastic.

@Mewobiba

2 жыл бұрын

There's actually a lot of mages with similar efficiency in M3 scales (and better efficiency in worse scales), what makes the hags stand out is that unlike say, Initiates or Spirit Guides, most of them are useful in combat (which is also the case for Sequani Stargazers, Yogi etc) and also they are foreignrec (which is pretty unique for such an efficient mage; shinuyama and la ulm are the only others that come to my mind).

@Isvoor

2 жыл бұрын

LA pythium has foreign rec mystes for 1 commander point

@walterfreeman3928

2 жыл бұрын

Yup. I had absolutely off-the-charts research as Vaettiheim (around 2000 RP before imprisoned pretender woke up) thanks to them.

29:46 map move, snow move, stealthy giant moose, tey're just hilarious, not very efficient on the battle field unless you expect some decently armored guys to attack your archers that the 16 damage moose attacks get through but there's no way to not like them, just whish they'd needlessly trample too, back to the game utility: map move, snow move and still stealthy, they're just faster then your other archers (I include crossbows in archers for the purpose of this comment)

Cool, failed two times as Vaetti playing them almost blind. Maybe after this I will do a little better.

I love these guys. (I was the Vaetti player in the Interventions video.) My concern with playing them was the window of vulnerability when my opponents would have serious AoE (elementals, thunderstrike, even falling fires) before I could get my various tricks (mostly at 6/7 research) online. It didn't matter because I mostly diplo'd my way to victory that game (and helped myself to a lot of land in a dogpile against Midgard by elfing them). But it sounds like you're saying: * gobbo raiding is so good you probably don't have to fight a pitched battle against a nation like Man or Midgard that will blast your gobbos with elementals... * ... but if you do, pointbuffing using alt3/4 stuff is probably good enough to win anyway Is that more or less how you see them? The battle you show at the beginning is impressive, to be sure. But what happens when an enemy throws a few air elementals into that mix? I still worry about their vulnerability to AoE in larger battles. Their research is INSANE though, meaning you can get your spicier toys before your opponents have theirs.

@LucidTactics

2 жыл бұрын

For air eles, luck and body ethereal and your berserkers / rimvaetti can cut a good number down. For fire elementals, luck and the water fire ward spell in alteration and fighting in C3, then you can make a pretty good go at them. I would avoid attacking a fire nation early though def dont want to fight them in H3. Some people want FR to deal with fire eles with rimvaetti though.

@entropius

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah. My plan was to rely heavily on rimvaetti for this -- I took a resist bless (major fire, major shock, defense, 2x reinvig iirc) for them, figuring that they will freeze solid and cut down elementals, and just not go offensive with large armies during that window of vulnerability. Worked out well. Rimvaetti are truly bonkers in cold3 -- they keep your home safe while you go raid people.

V interesting you haven’t liked wolf brothers for expansion. I haven’t tried myself but it seems like every other guide I read/seen recommends them so much! Great video

@LucidTactics

2 жыл бұрын

You can expand with them, but I've found them to be high attrition and prone to failure. Still nice to get them out of forests to clear a few more provinces

neat to have the demo battle at the beginning

Lol an hour in I'm just realizing that this is a two hour long nation review. Nice 🙂

The moose I think is just trying to stop a trampler maybe, still gonna get dismounted

I haven't been able to find the "upcoming series" mentioned in the video, did it end up not happening or did I just not click the right video?

@LucidTactics

Жыл бұрын

It didn't end up happening, I might have the turn files somewhere though

@Slayerlord13

Жыл бұрын

@@LucidTactics Ah, I see! Thanks for the answer!

Quick , somebody call goblin slayer!

00:1 hmm love the sound. Why does army of giants give map move, s it permanent like army of rats?

@LucidTactics

2 жыл бұрын

Enlarge is temporary. Shrink is forever :)

@Isvoor

2 жыл бұрын

It's the same effect as the enlarge bless, which is permanent. But the spell isn't, yeah

41:58 what about the fight were you can't kill that darn Thug/SC because he's swarmed by skelletons and your anti-Thugs can't get to him? (I watch let's plays on KZread, I've seen that type of situation more often then expected and only a small portion is cheesing the spring hawk throne)

@LucidTactics

2 жыл бұрын

Well you probably have a lot of berserkers and or rim vaetti that are extremely hard to thug into. Later in the game you get d2 - disintegrate

Vaetti are too "beefy" for size 1 units. They should have Hoburg level HP (5-6) and strength (6-7) to balance the attack density. Make them a little cheaper to account for this, as necessary.

You are wrong when you say you can''t madness rimvaetti, they get gone berserk with berserking 0.

@LucidTactics

2 жыл бұрын

Ah youre right, i thought it just gave them berserker like growing fury, not gone berserk. Good to know.

I prefer the Japanese goblin

@psisavant

2 жыл бұрын

That's a MMD/touhou reference I believe

@smonkey001

2 жыл бұрын

It's from northern Europe, they have to make it OP.