Deuteronomy 23:15 “If slaves should escape from their masters and take refuge with you, you must not hand them over to their masters. 16 Let them live among you in any town they choose, and do not oppress them.

@trumpbellend6717

Жыл бұрын

The concensus among biblical scholars is that this verse refers specifically to foreign slaves that have escaped to your lands from the enemies that the previous verse spoke of defeating and the surrounding lands. Hence the " let him live in "your" midst " ( the Israelites) and being able to pick one of "your" (the Israelites) towns to live in. This once again is no different than that from some of the American chattel slave states that forbid the returning of runaway slaves from other states whilst still permitting slave ownership. For example ..... Pennsylvania ( 17 80 ) _"No negro or mulatto slave_ ... _shall be removed out of this state, with the design and intention that the place of abode or residence of such slave or servant shall be thereby altered or changed"_ On March 25, 1826, the State of Pennsylvania passed a further law. "If any person or persons shall, from and after the passing of this act, by force and violence, take and carry away, or cause to be taken or carried away, and shall, by fraud or false pretense, seduce, or cause to be seduced, or shall attempt so to take, carry away or seduce, any negro or mulatto, from any part or parts of this commonwealth, to any other place or places whatsoever, out of this commonwealth, with a design and intention of selling and disposing of, or of causing to be sold, or of keeping and detaining, or of causing to be kept and detained, such negro or mulatto, as a slave or servant for life, or for any term whatsoever, every such person or persons, his or their aiders or abettors, shall on conviction thereof, in any court of this commonwealth having competent jurisdiction, be deemed guilty of a felony"

@letsfinishit5484

Жыл бұрын

@@trumpbellend6717 Exodus 22: 21 “You must not mistreat or oppress foreigners in any way. Remember, you yourselves were once foreigners in the land of Egypt." God doesn't want anyone to be mistreated or oppress. that is why the sabbath is given to them so they may rest. it was a different time back in those days and we don't have a lot of culture context on the matter but I know God wants justice. slaves are probably going to go to heaven faster than the masters for the humble are exalted and the pride are brought down or the pride are humble.

@trumpbellend6717

Жыл бұрын

@@letsfinishit5484 PS to insert _"in any way"_ into your biblical verse is highly disingenuous dear 😜

@letsfinishit5484

Жыл бұрын

@@trumpbellend6717 I gave you a verse then I gave you my stance. the verse I gave and my stance after it is for this topic.

@trumpbellend6717

Жыл бұрын

@@letsfinishit5484 How about you address the MULTITUDE of biblical verses that specifically endorsed slavery and the absence of any that condemn the practice 😉

This doesn't address the most pressing question - why didn't Jesus, God in the flesh, simply say, "Slavery is wrong?" It would have changed the course of history for millions of people.

@josietanner3960

11 ай бұрын

That is the dumbest question? How is anyone supposed to know why Jesus didn't address it? My personal opinion? Slavery wasn't viewed as evil back then... Duh

@reallifefaith

11 ай бұрын

Brilliant

@alienwarex51i3

6 ай бұрын

@@josietanner3960 Are you saying that Jesus' words were influenced by what society viewed as acceptable?

@josietanner3960

6 ай бұрын

@alienwarex51i3 I believe that human civilization needed slavery until the Industrial Revolution or else human civilization would have collapsed. Jesus being God would have understood this. So, He would not have spoken against slavery, but He would have spoken against how people were treated. If you disagree with this point, then why do the poorest countries still have slave labor today? It is only rich countries that can afford machines to do the work where we abolished slavery. Lastly, I think that ancient slavery looked differently than modern slavery.

@brianmay7111

4 ай бұрын

​@@josietanner3960So Jesus let it human suffering happen bcs it was needed for civilization? Do you hear what you are saying?

Apologetics always dismiss the atrocities of non jew slaves. Jewish slaves are the only ones treated with some respect

@amandapanda3657

2 ай бұрын

Yeah, they had it great in Egypt.

@hassentrh2118

Ай бұрын

@@amandapanda3657 egyptians didn't follow the bible so they didn't know they have to be easy on jewish slaves and hard on the rest of us

@1952monkey

22 күн бұрын

1 Timothy 1:9-11 English Standard Version 9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

The answer is yes, read Exodus 21 & Leviticus 25.

@erunstoppable1174

4 ай бұрын

You forgot about the New Testament, where Jesus told you to be a good little slave, and be a better slave to a Christian master

@Doctor_Fate5

4 ай бұрын

​@@erunstoppable1174 I have read the Bible Jesus himself never said that LoL. He just said serve one another just like he served.

@andrewhockings6867

3 ай бұрын

Didn’t Jesus say something like he wasn’t here to change the laws but to enforce them. Lucky for us the story of Jesus is completely made up and he never actually existed.

@Doctor_Fate5

3 ай бұрын

@@andrewhockings6867 actually no he didn't said he came to enforce them. In new testament he broke laws/reinterpreted for example he healed people during Sabbath.

@Wallmart5

3 ай бұрын

You know slave is also translated as servant@@erunstoppable1174

The fact that it endorses slavery caused so much misery for millions of people.

@aaron-oh6fk

4 ай бұрын

romans 8:18. The present sufferings do not compare to the glory that awaits us all to him who is in Christ. For whoever is in Christ is a new creation, the old is gone

@andrewfairborn6762

3 ай бұрын

@@aaron-oh6fkthis is a BS verse. Please delete your response

@aaron-oh6fk

3 ай бұрын

oh please tell me why. this and Galatians 3:28 show that slavery dont matter. If this counts as endorsing slavery would you say the same for poor people?@@andrewfairborn6762

@Dr_suter

2 ай бұрын

No…no buddy it didn’t, slavery has been around forever and is estimated 27 million people are still slaves. The Bible allowed slaves to live way more comfortably than they would’ve, you’re taking it massively out of context, allowing slavery didn’t create slavery. It is because of the Bible that slaves didn’t live in horrible condition.

@TheDapperSwindler

2 ай бұрын

@@Dr_suter If they were fellow Hebrews or resident aliens, perhaps. Slaves bought from surrounding nations, on the other hand, could be treated as chattel like any other civilization of the time was doing.

Bait and switch. He keeps going back to Hebrews as slaves when the scripture already differentiated them as indentured servants, not slaves. Foreigners were slaves that were considered property that was an inheritance. No 7 year freedom. Hebrew man could go free but wife & kids were slaves forever. He says you could buy slaves (leaving the impression they were indentured servants) and left out that you could make slaves out of people they conquered (kill the males, keep women and animals as the spoils of war Deut 20:10-14). Additionally, There were different laws punishment between hurting a slave vs a Hebrew. No death penalty, no eye for eye concept for slaves. Just freedom. There no cleaning this up and making it more holy than the surrounding cultures. Slaves were surrogate mothers when owners couldn’t have kids. You think the women had a choiceI? How can nonbelievers take Christian’s serious when they intentionally leave out inconvenient info so they don’t seem quite as bad? It’s grossly incompetent at best or deceptive at worst. Jesus already says certain rules was given because of the hardness of the peoples heart. And it was given by Moses, not God’s law. but if you say that you have to give up this modern invention of inerrancy and univocality of the scripture. Can’t give that up so just make up fantasy picture of reality and insult the intelligence of people who actually read the Bible.

@Snowmon89

11 күн бұрын

Comment 2: You know, I replied to your comment before watching this video.... These verses I shared and many MANY more were in the video itself. So not only did you not "actually read the Bible", but you didn't even bother to watch the video of which you are "responding to".

@coachwalk7485

11 күн бұрын

@@Snowmon89 I stand by what I wrote. I wish you were a little more specific in your critique so I know exactly what to respond to. But, Let me be more specific since "I didn't watch the video or read the bible." The video does reference SOME of what I referred to. However the vid cites verses that are talking about hebrew indentured servants as if it counts toward the other category of foreign slaves (that’s the bait and switch). People AREN'T COMPLAINING about the indentured servants texts. They have a problem with the slavery texts. For example, vid cites exodus 21 with guidelines for slavery. But Ex 21 starts off specifically talking about Hebrews as a slave, which we know is different from Leviticus 25 foreign slaves. So is the video saying the “unprecedented basic rights” were for the foreign slaves as well or is Ex 21 just talking about Hebrew male servants? The video never says. Vid cites Leviticus 25 and says "Hebrew slaves treated as workers hired from year to year..." Again, It seems like it's combining the two types of slavery to make it seem not as bad. The foreigner slave did not have the same rights as the Hebrew slave. That's what I consider the bait and switch. The writers of the text absolutely condoned slavery. Their version of it was evil. And using verses that are talking about Hebrew indentured servants to defend foreign slavery is flat out wrong. Does God condone slavery? No. Now when you ignore the Torah and NT and only focus on Jesus you get a completely different perspective. Jesus doesn’t have to say "my followers don't enslave people." He said the greatest commandment is to love your neighbor as you love yourself. Also found in Leviticus 19:18. When you love your neighbor the way you love yourself you can’t conquer them and make them slaves. Jesus says to love your enemy. Bless and not curse them. You can’t enslave them if you’re actually supposed to bless them. I believe this has always been the Father’s position. So these verses are horrific. My opinion is they aren't God's law but Moses law. I didn't mention this in my first comment but vid pushes this narrative that these protections and rights were unprecedented and unique. They weren't. Code of Hammurabi, Hittite laws, Assyrian laws had many similar slave protections. They were par for the course. What Jesus said was unique. Jesus interpretation of Moses law was unique. These slave laws were a reflection of the writers' sinful hearts, the ancient near east cultural influences, not God's position on slavery. But to have that point of view it would destroy the fairly modern intervention "the Bible is the word of God with all the books having 1 unified voice on all subjects." Christians stop blaming God for what the human authors of the OT believed. Jesus, God's perfect representative, doesn't give us that option. The more we critique the writing through the lens is Jesus it protects us from these evil practices that Christians went asking with, ignored and sometimes encouraged. And yes, born again Christians ended slavery from other born again Christians using these same verses to justify the institution. Jesus never gives us that option and it needs to be said emphatically.

@johnalexander4940

10 күн бұрын

Fora short video he made a great case. 1# the word abd Hebrew for servant didn't carry the same connotation as the modern usage.. Servants were considered household members and received part of the household inheritance of the father. It doesn't matter to an atheist because they'll just whine that God doesn't stop every evil in the world commanded in the Bible. So imagine what would happen if He did ? If love of the other included Israelite, Edomite, and Egyptian Deuteronomy 23:8 Leviticus 19:18 Leviticus 19:33-35 Including prohibition of MAN stealing ( kinap for the purpose of selling into slavery which carried th Death penalty Exodus 21:16 How much clearer can you spell it out. Enslavement of another human against their will is wrong. Humanity still struggles with it today as evidence of a 4 year Civil War threatens the country once again as the wicked want their cake and eat it to. God bless America 🙏

Thanks for this particular video.

1:34 "The slaves were to be treated well" apart from the bit that says you can beat them as long as they don't die after 2 days 🙃

@9432515

Жыл бұрын

Doesn’t say that. Back up two verses to see what ‘no punishment’ refers to.

@pablo1985

Жыл бұрын

@hunting atheists Exodus 20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property" That's exactly what is says.

@9432515

Жыл бұрын

@@pablo1985 yes..back up two verses to find out what ‘not to be punished’ is referring to. It’s no monetary fines for the assaulter of a servant..why? Because he’s already paying for everything..any lost wages etc are already his loss. He’s his money, investment. Corporal punishment tho is held..lev24.17-22

@dotsdot5608

Жыл бұрын

👀

@livewireOrourke

Жыл бұрын

@@9432515 Very good point!

You missed one big thing!! MOSES FOUGHT TO SET THE HEBREW SLAVES FREE

@cygnusustus

Жыл бұрын

How is that at all relevant? Moses in fact fought to allow the Hebrews to enslave other people.

@vardrids

11 ай бұрын

exactly!

@BluNinjaPig

11 ай бұрын

So Moses did not condone slavery

@Swordsman-gr9qc

11 ай бұрын

@@BluNinjaPig Moses would employ the Jews like Wal-Mart does if it existed back in ancient Egypt.

@Swordsman-gr9qc

8 ай бұрын

@@hello3691000 No the Bible controls slavery and prevents slaves from being abused and mistreated. In ancient and biblical times slavery was a form of employment practiced by whole empires and Kingdoms. The Bible simply dealt with s problem that would gradually change the world and turn it away from the practice of slavery.

So Yes? Absolutely 100%, yes! The Bible encourages the ownership of another human being as property. I want to remind everyone about this fact for those who watched this and missed the answer. I implore you for being honest. A panel of Bible Scholars will be discussing this on march 11th on Deep Drinks

@9432515

Жыл бұрын

BS! Nowhere does it say ownership. Possession/property does not automatically mean full control ownership. A contract holder has possession/property too, which this was. Deut15

@DeepDrinks

Жыл бұрын

@@9432515 In exodus 21, when a slave wants to leave with his family but cannot, are those family members chattel slaves?

@9432515

Жыл бұрын

@@DeepDrinks it says his wife during his six yr service..right? Well..she simply has to finish off her six yr service. Why? Bc this was an investment of the rich guy as well as the poor w labor. You can’t just leave a job sight and not expect the employer to hurt. Read Jer34 if you don’t believe that. They were punished by God by 70 yrs captivity for NOT releasing their female bond servants after six yrs. And yes…this did include Gentiles. Read Deut15.2 that word for neighbour included Gentiles as Gen38.12 shows (rea’)

@DeepDrinks

Жыл бұрын

@@9432515 read it again, if the master gives the slave his family she is not to leave when his time is up, his options are to leave behind his wife and kids or become a slave for life, having his ear marked like cattle. When can she be set free?

@9432515

Жыл бұрын

@@DeepDrinks no…they are debt servants (food, room and board, education, etc) was not free for the employer..right? So..they worked for the six years. Jer34 shows this was the case. It had zero to do with being an Israelite. It had to do with being a servant of God..in covenant marriage with God gave you the blessings (including debt redemption fin&sin) listed in deut28. But they had to choose in. This is a relationship God is offering the world. He absolves all debt if you do. Points to Christ. He’s the Redeemer absolving mankind of debt.

It is insane that the supposedly divine, perfect creator beamed down a how to own a slave handbook.

@1952monkey

22 күн бұрын

1 Timothy 1:9-11 English Standard Version 9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

@johnalexander4940

10 күн бұрын

Ye shall not steal ( kidnap ) a Man for sale, nor shall he be found in your possession lest ye be put to Death. Exodus 21:16 Debunked" You shall not hate and Edomite or and Egyptian Deuteronomy 23:8 You shall not mistreat, hate, your brother Israelite but you must ❤ him as yourself.. Leviticus 19:18 You shall not mistreat a foreigner or a sojourner you must ❤ him as yourself. Debunked Every stupid thing man decides to do would require volumes of books to interpret. But if ❤ is in his heart for others God doesn't need volumes of annotated criminal law to spell out to conscious humans that involuntary slavery is a bad course of action. Debunked

“The lord chooses to change people gradually” except for all those times he commanded and committed genocide. Especially that one where he drowned damn near everyone on earth including innocent children and babies.

@spades9115

10 ай бұрын

Well the great flood with Noah was for a reason. The people were in lust and worshiping idols. Doin all sorts of janky shit

@abrahamgraham331

8 сағат бұрын

And he also chooses to take life justly. Who are you to critique the morality of the creator of the universe. He created the morals.

While I agree the Bible regulated slavery, I disagree that the Bible does not condone lifelong chattel slavery. You didn't come out and say that I guess, but that seems to be your argument. If you agree the Bible condones lifelong chattel slavery you should just come out and say that. Other than the passage in Leviticus and the referral to the Canaanites, all the other references from the OT referred only to Hebrews. And you're right. But you read the passage yourself that they could not be made slaves. And called them indentured servants. And I agree. So how are these rules for non-slave, only Hebrew indentured servants relevant to a video on slavery in the Bible? They are not. You even argued yourself that they are not. The entire argument you are meant to address in this video is effectively contained in the verses from Leviticus 25 that you put on on screen. These are the lifelong chattel slaves in the Bible that this video is meant to address. But we just got a few seconds on that? Every other single verse you read from the OT only applied to Hebrew indentured servants. How is this an honest discussion of this? I just hear this so much that it bothers me. I dove into this years ago so I myself would have the answer. And what I learned is that it's actually a really good question. One I still struggle with. And one I've never heard a good answer to because every person I listen to does this same thing you did here. Talk about the rules for Hebrews only. When that is not the issue at all!!!! The issue is the foreigners. And simply waving your hands and saying "Canaanites" is not an answer. One of the aspects that is NEVER mentioned in these videos are the children. Children born to the actual lifelong chattel slaves in the Bible (the foreigners, not the Hebrews) automatically also become lifelong chattel slaves in the Bible. What did these children do to deserve slavery? Or their children after them? How is this good and moral? And why does the Bible never tell us slavery is wrong? It never says it's wrong, immoral, a sin or against the will of God. Ever. It only tells us how to do chattel slavery correctly. And this is something I have never been able to wrap my head around. This is a real issue for me after I looked into it for myself. The Bible says God doesn't want Hebrews to be slaves after Egypt, but he seems fine with foreigners being enslaved by Israelites. Why? My question is no longer "Does the Bible Condone Slavery", the answer to that is yes. By definition it does. My question is "Why does the Bible condone slavery", and that is I video I have never found. And that is eternally frustrating to me.

@kattilathehunfreedomfighter

Жыл бұрын

I have to say that I agree with your points and was left with the same feeling after watching this: unsettled questions/answers to an important topic. I trust God Almighty in all that He does, I'm just having a difficult time understanding and reconciling this issue. You laid it bare better than I could have.

@Gloriagal78

Жыл бұрын

Totally agree.

@Scorpion-my3dv

Жыл бұрын

Amazes me how people like you are so quick to come to your conclusions and never look up the apologetic sites that explain these things.

@CD-vb9fi

Жыл бұрын

@@Scorpion-my3dv Because they rush to judge God... not a wise move. Instead of trying to learn why some things happened the way they did, instead they just say God was bad and condemn themselves in ignorance and sin. But that is the hubris of humans... the sheer audacity to look towards God and try and condemn Him for things that have happened when they don't even make a genuine attempt to find out why they happened. Instead they choose to break their teeth against Him and cause the destruction of their own souls in foolishness.

@nickbrasing8786

Жыл бұрын

@@Scorpion-my3dv But I have looked up those sites Scorpion. Everyone I could find. I've read books and articles on the subject. All that I could find and all that are sent my way. I've read them all. I've listened to all the apologetic videos I could find on the subject. I've listened to every debate I could find on the subject. I've studies the Ancient Near East to better understand the wider context at the time. I've studied some of the other laws in the surrounding nations like the Law of Hammurabi. I've even learned a little Hebrew and Koine Greek to better understand some passages in their original languages. You cannot dismiss me because I haven't taken the time to educate myself. I've been neck deep in this for years now. I'm not judging God, or condemning Him, or not making a genuine attempt as CD claims in his comment above. I am simply asking am honest question about something I do not understand in the Bible. And I'm being attacked for it. Called ignorant and insincere by people that have absolutely no idea what I've done to look into this. And they turn out to be wrong in what they say. Completely wrong. But if it makes you guys feel better to dismiss the question and attack me, I can't stop you. But I will correct you. There are many things you could attack me for, but being uneducated on this subject is not one of them.

Why not outlaw slavery the same way god outlaws eating shell fish

@johnalexander4940

11 күн бұрын

Mockers don't care to know the truth. The Bibles open declaration on prohibiting slavery is an argument from silence. The prescribed servitude of Exodus 21:16 clearly condemns the stealing of man for the purposes of selling or holding against their will. Death was the penalty for violating this statute. Exodus 21:2 7yrs was the prescribed time the Hebrews were permitted servants for their contracted positions and were to allow them to go freely. Later because of centuries of not upholding this standard they were exiled from the land 70 yrs. And made to uphold these laws of Servitude to the letter. No one today in their right mind would label this as chattle slavery known in the West.

You shall not own another person as property" is missing from the Ten Commandments of a slave-owning culture. “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.” (1 Timothy 2:11-12) Slaves, in reverent fear of God, submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate but also to those who are harsh” (1 Peter 2:18). “All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect” (1 Timothy 6:1).

@1952monkey

22 күн бұрын

1 Timothy 1:9-11 English Standard Version 9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

To say God doesn’t meddle in political or social arrangements is confusing to me. God frequently bypassed laws of the elder son, or picked a king over another person ( David). Can you clarify for me?

@youtuberyoutuber2495

4 ай бұрын

God's law is above our law. He is above us. He can go against our say, our word anytime he wants

@1952monkey

22 күн бұрын

1 Timothy 1:9-11 English Standard Version 9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

@johnalexander4940

10 күн бұрын

Gods choice to capitulate the will of Israel in choosing King Saul wasn't a compromise. God allowed their will to be done. The scriptures are clear that those who seek to be first shall be last. David their second King was the last son of Jesse though he went on to become the greatest king of Israel. Esau was the firstborn of Jacob yet Jacob received the blessing and had 12 sons The point of God not meddling in mans political and social strategies holds true. The law is rooted in Love Deuteronomy 6:4-5 Deuteronomy 19:18 and 19:33 You can't keep 1 commandment without it. Therefore the need to exhaustively spell out every commandment and also it's sub variation is ridiculous. Slavery as we use it in the modern sense of torturous involuntary slavery experienced by African descendants compared to Hebrew slavery is completely different.

Exodus 21:20 "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, 21:21 but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.

@Doctor_Fate5

4 ай бұрын

That's corporal punishment right there

@alienwarex51i3

4 ай бұрын

@@Doctor_Fate5 Yep. Wild that Christians think that reflects the judgment of a benevolent god, huh?

@Doctor_Fate5

4 ай бұрын

@@alienwarex51i3 it does reflect that keep in mind this is civil law of ancient Israel 🇮🇱 it's not ideal for all time.

@alienwarex51i3

4 ай бұрын

@@Doctor_Fate5 It's actually known as the "Mosaic Law."

@Sayer_of_Uh

2 ай бұрын

​@@Doctor_Fate5 so it's morally relative 😅

Exodus 21:4 If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself.

@Doctor_Fate5

4 ай бұрын

Master gives him his own daughter in marriage

Thank you

I find it absolutely amazing that at around 2.15 he lightly glosses over the order for GENOCIDE, and then proceeds to talk about those survivors being bought into slavery. Apologists are so blinkered they're almost blind...

@statesman6379

10 ай бұрын

The Bible clearly does not support genocide. It is God’s will that none should perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9). John, who saw inside of Heaven, noted that he saw: “…every nation, tribe, people, and dialect standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb…wearing white robes…(Revelation 7:9).” In Heaven, every nation, race and skin color will be represented. So, since God wishes that none should go to Hell, and since He saved some from every single nation and race of people, then clearly, God does not support genocide. This is why God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son so that whoever believes shall have eternal life. In the Old Testament, God needed to prepare the way for His Messiah, the Savior of the World, to come into the world many generations later. God is all-knowing and knows the what-ifs in advance. He needed the future Roman culture to set the events of the Cross forward. Imagine, if the past was changed, there might not even have been a culture with the Romans in charge at the time of Christ. But moreover, God Himself explains why He commanded the Conquest of the pagans in several places. Deuteronomy 7:1-6 says, “When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations…and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.” Verse 4 says why: “…for they will turn your children away from following me to serve other gods, and the LORD’s anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you.” Again, God knows the what-ifs. He sees in advance (He knows the future) that His own people will turn against Him because they will be influenced by the pagan’s religions and wicked culture. His holy and righteous nature would then invoke God to turn on His own people. God wanted to keep His own people as holy as possible. Verse 6 says, “For you are a people holy to the LORD your God…” The Bible describes the Canaanites of the land. In Deuteronomy 9:4, God says, “After the LORD your God has driven them out before you, do not say to yourself, ‘The LORD has brought me here to take possession of this land because of my righteousness.’ No, it is on account of the wickedness of these nations that the LORD is going to drive them out before you.” In Deuteronomy 20:18, God says what will happen if they were not to do it. Again, He knows the what-ifs. He says, “Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God.” What were these detestable practices, you might ask? For this, read all of Leviticus 18, which describes “the practices of the land of Canaan (verse 3).” They even sacrificed their own sons and daughters to their pagan god Molech (verse 18). They committed bestiality (verse 23). God saw in advanced that if He took no action then these people would influence His own people to practice these same things. So, since God is real, He sits outside of time and space and knows the future from the beginning. He knows the what-ifs in advanced and is able to redirect His people to help alter the course of future events to a better path. He needed His Messiah to come into a world that was set up for the events of the Cross. Jesus is the Savior of the world: the savior of all nationalities and peoples. The events prior to Jesus allowed for the sacrifice of Jesus, which allowed for the chance for everyone to get saved. If things went differently, then no one would have the opportunity for eternal life.

@rob-rachschilling7953

9 ай бұрын

Atheism doesn't have a basis to claim murder is wrong.

@question-question

9 ай бұрын

@@rob-rachschilling7953 would you like to TRY and explain that claim.

@rob-rachschilling7953

9 ай бұрын

@@question-question Pretty simple, give me your basis which says murder is absolutely wrong. Not your opinion that changes from person to person.

@question-question

9 ай бұрын

@@rob-rachschilling7953 don't dodge my question. Answer what I asked. You made a statement. On what basis did you make that statement?

But, if God made all of humanity, why would there ever have been slavery at all? You state that this was the common practice of the time of the writing of the Bible. But, why then did God wait so long to appear to man and lay out these rules? Why did slavery ever become a thing at all? The Bible also talks about how it's ok to beat your slaves as long as they don't die within two days. Is this not a contradiction from treating your slaves well?

@TheDapperSwindler

6 ай бұрын

There is a standard maneuver that Christian apologists make here (and he does it here too), it's so common and predictable that you can always see it coming as if it were the next step in a dance routine. They always start by saying "let's talk about what the Bible says about slavery". Then, they _immediately_ go straight to indentured servitude of fellow Hebrews and resident aliens, and talk up its (relatively speaking) tamer aspects. Then they contrast this with slavery practiced in other nations and regions of the time, to try to draw a dstinction and argue how revolutionary and forward-thinking it was, underscoring God's plan to eventually liberate everyone and showing them how to do it through God's chosen people. In other words, they cherry pick that particular form of slavery and ignore what the rules were for slaves bought from surrounding nations, which is every bit the same kind of chattel slavery that was practiced at the time elsewhere. They simply pretend this doesn't exist in the Bible (but it does, see Leviticus 25:44-46). They also like to use the excuse of "slavery was common at the time" to argue why God didn't just outright ban slavery, deflty ignoring the uncomfortable implication this brings up: why would a God's moral views or principles have anything to do with what anyone does at any point in history?

@christhechilled

6 ай бұрын

People are slaves even if you are “free” in God’s eye. If you’re not with God then your master will be your selfless desire, I.e sin. People who not with God are a slave to sin.

@TheDapperSwindler

6 ай бұрын

@@christhechilledYou can try to justify it with vague metaphors, but "you shall own them as property" in Leviticus 25:44-46 is pretty clear.

@1952monkey

22 күн бұрын

1 Timothy 1:9-11 English Standard Version 9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

@johnalexander4940

10 күн бұрын

Man is given moral consciousness to will either the good or evil. The tree of the knowledge of good or evil verifies this pont Genesis 2:16-17 Mans consciousness of evil acts depriving others of their God given freedom to act in accordance to known laws of morality leaves man without an excuse. True Slavery was writ large in explicit term in the 10 commandments neither was embezelment, or a whole host of various other sins But Exodus 21:16 clearly forbids the kidnap of man for sale ( enslavement ) or to hold against his will under threat of Death. That's clear enough when you then consider all the eye for an eye doctrine spelt out in the rest of the chapter. The point of ❤ for neighbor includes every harmful action taken against another depriving them quiet enjoyment of their God given rights as human. God didn't need volumes of exhaustive literature to get this pont across. .Man has fought a Civil War that held involuntary slavery as the dividing issue of the Nation. And that struggle continues today on so many other levels. Pray they kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.❤

No single bible verse saying to abolish slavery, it definitely condones it

@1952monkey

22 күн бұрын

1 Timothy 1:9-11 English Standard Version 9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

There is no moral justification for slavery... this makes the book not a source for morality. You can talk around it and justify it however you want but this is simple logic.

@Swordsman-gr9qc

4 ай бұрын

There are various degrees of slavery and not all forms of slavery are abusive.

@dominichoward4833

4 ай бұрын

@Swordsman-gr9qc what type of goofy logic is this. Whatever type of slavery detailed in the bible is immoral. Free a man but you own his wife and kids and if he wants to remain with his family, clip his ear and you own him for life... extra immoral. It's like you guys don't even know what's in your book.

@mountainmonkey15

2 ай бұрын

So basically any country that has an incarceration system for criminals is immoral in your eyes?

@dominichoward4833

2 ай бұрын

@mountainmonkey15 huh? Why do you guys do this? There is a clear difference between commiting a crime and going to jail versus owning a person. The fact that it needs to be explained demonstrates a lack of morality or intentional ignorance.

@mountainmonkey15

2 ай бұрын

@@dominichoward4833 When the KJV was written, prisoners were called slaves in the Bible.

I like how the bible is so incoherent and contradictory within the same book that people will keep arguing it in the comment sections. I am not that religious but yall need to agree to leave eachother be and treat everyone as family even if you disagree with eachother's thoughts.

@1952monkey

22 күн бұрын

1 Timothy 1:9-11 English Standard Version 9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

Leviticus 25:39-40 is taken out of context and poorly translated. In the King James Bible, prior to this verse specifically addresses the ancestors of Abraham, the people of Israel, not Europeans, not Africans, not Asians, not Arabs. It only addresses the people of the Jewish faith, "thy brother" who descend from Abraham. And it only addresses those who are sold due to debt. This rule does not apply to slaves captured in battle or from foreign lands.

@hughjanus2781

Жыл бұрын

Everything is false and no one was sold due to debt. They put themselves into servitude to pay off a debt. Also it just says nations around you that has nothing to do with family lines.

@9432515

Жыл бұрын

Yes..because it’s the Hebrews first, then from them the whole world. Ps2.8. Read Deut15…God is after the poor, to rid poverty, first the Hebrews til the poor don’t exist in the land then the Gentiles. How? Verse6..loans. That’s why it’s all about redemption..the Redeemer Christ is redeeming the world of debt, fin&sin. It uses financial debt to teach the greater lesson of unpaid sin debt.

@BlGGESTBROTHER

Жыл бұрын

@@9432515 It's funny that in every comment reply you quote some other part of the Bible to explain away this verse instead of addressing the verse itself and what it says. At best you're just proving that the Bible contradicts itself; which most of us already knew anyways. I think a more appropriate username for yourself would be "creating atheists" because anyone with a modicum of reason can see through your weak answers.

@9432515

Жыл бұрын

@@BlGGESTBROTHER what verse? Lev25?

@BlGGESTBROTHER

Жыл бұрын

@@9432515 My comment should have said chapter not verse, but yes I was referring to Lev 25.

Yes, outright and very clear

@guidodiman

4 ай бұрын

Except for, which he conveniently omitted, Exodus 21:20-21 The beating of slaves was ok if they could recover in a few days. Words from the "loving" deity. Owning people for whatever reason is wrong and mental gymnastics will not justify a deity not condemning it from the start. His whole talk is bull roar or horse shit which ever you choose. Christians are trained in Olympic level mental gymnastics. I know I attended 12 years of Catholic.....Indoctrination, believe or burn.

@infinightsky

4 ай бұрын

@@guidodiman I agree, totally. I guess my comment wasn’t clear. It out right condones, defends, encourages and guides people in chattel slavery.

@1952monkey

22 күн бұрын

1 Timothy 1:9-11 English Standard Version 9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

Maybe God should have spent less time requesting goats/sheep/olive oil/flower be burnt at an alter worshiping him and more time condemning the ownership of fellow human beings. Seems an omnipotent being would have got that much right.

This is a deliberate misrepresentation. It mentions, in passing, the existence of slavery and then focuses on the ways fellow Israelite slaves were to be treated. Of course the Bible condones slavery. Why would it not? It is a simply man-made collection of books and slavery was a fact of life. If, however, we beleive the Bible to be God's word, we have a serious problem. Apologists like to pretend that slavery was more like indentured servitude but both versions existed side by side and slaves taken by the Israelites from other nations were, without doubt, chattel slaves. The same is true later of Christians. Slavery is slavery. If a master can beat you and you are not free to leave, you are a slave, no matter how varied some slave's lives may have been or how nuanced our favourite interpretation may be. Mosaic law does indeed regulate rather than outlaw slavery. We should ask why. If the Israelites were God's chosen people, given strict laws by which to live and to be an example to the nations, why did God not simply say in the commandments, slavery is evil? Coveting is wrong but owning another person is ok, or not worth mentioning? Really? And why didn't Jesus teach people a better way? Some Bible versions replace the word slave with servant or bondservant but this is a deliberate mistranslation from the Greek 'doulos' (in English script) which does mean slave.

@theoutspokenhumanist

8 ай бұрын

@@hello3691000 I am an atheist and antitheist but I respect your right to hold your own beliefs, even if I cannot really understand why. The Bible clearly and explicitly condones slavery and even sets rules for how it is to be conducted. I find it strange that people's beliefs cause them to be wilfully blind to passages in their holy book they find difficult. Thank you for the comment. It is refreshing to encounter a believer who is honest in their appraisal of the Bible but I do wonder, if you think some of it is God's word, how you can tell the God parts from the human and why God would allow a collection of books containing his word to be so full of myth, error and internal contradiction.

Even within the 10 Commandments Slavery is endorsed and supported. At no point does the Bible condemn slavery. So I think the answer is pretty clear.

@9432515

Жыл бұрын

It condemns forced slavery innEx21.16…all those within the slave trade have a death sentence

@jeremysepicrun

Жыл бұрын

Slavery must exist in order for us to be free from slavery. "Anyone who sins is a slave to sin". If God permits or allows slavery, why would He want is free from it?

@PossessedPotatoBird

Жыл бұрын

Deuteronomy 24:7 7 If someone is caught kidnapping a fellow Israelite and treating or selling them as a slave, the kidnapper must die. You must purge the evil from among you.

@Grendel-td5nf

Жыл бұрын

@@PossessedPotatoBird and yet, one is instructed, by god, to boy slaves from nations around you.

@PossessedPotatoBird

Жыл бұрын

@@Grendel-td5nf where does it say that?

It’s unclear with today’s language as some translations use the word servant instead of slaves

@TheDapperSwindler

Жыл бұрын

This is actually completely irrelevant, since regardless of which word you use the Bible is clear on how you may own others as property. That's slavery no matter how you cut it.

@zazilicious

Жыл бұрын

@@TheDapperSwindler So we had servants when I was growing up does it make me a slave owner?

@TheDapperSwindler

Жыл бұрын

@@zazilicious Did you own the servant as property? If not, then no.

@georgepetrou501

Жыл бұрын

​@@zazilicious were you allowed to beat him half to death and not be punished for it if he didn't die in 2 days because he is your own money? I didn't say it, the bible did

@Spatterdock

Жыл бұрын

Not now as a servant, but above a servant, a brother beloved, specially to me, but how much more unto thee, both in the flesh, and in the Lord? (Philemon 1: 16)

So slavery isn't wrong. It is how you treat each other that counts. Got it! Tu sir!

@1952monkey

22 күн бұрын

1 Timothy 1:9-11 English Standard Version 9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

YES. Leviticus 25; 44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life”

There is “no proper treatment”for slaves

@Greggers1516

2 ай бұрын

At the time this was a way to ease peoples treatment of slavery out of fashion. God in exodus made it clear he doesn’t condone slavery and people still did it, so he slowly but surely made statements about how to treat “slaves” as a brother rather than property not worth living. And look where we are now. People used the Bible to fight slavery and it’s commonly seen as evil.

The confederates said slavery was god-given right

@user-rv2zj8zu5b

24 күн бұрын

And???? You can make anything say anything. Look what Hitler used Nietzsche to justify.

@1952monkey

22 күн бұрын

1 Timothy 1:9-11 English Standard Version 9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

I’m a Christian slavery is a embarrassment to me when I debate christianity

@alienwarex51i3

4 ай бұрын

You should ask yourself more questions about the nature of the god you believe in.

@Doctor_Fate5

4 ай бұрын

​@@alienwarex51i3 well Jesus called himself a slave...and he was serving everybody.

@alienwarex51i3

4 ай бұрын

@@Doctor_Fate5 That's a nothingburger of a comment if I've ever seen one

The argument from 5:00 that the Jesus (or the Bible) didn't need to condemn slavery cause it changes things gradually is a big, fat cop-out and the statement at 5:36 that "In nations where Christianity spread and took firm hold, slavery was brought to an end through the effort of born-again individuals." is a complete misreading of history.

@TheDapperSwindler

7 ай бұрын

When Christians make this argument that the abolitionists were Christian, they conveniently leave out the fact that those wanting to preserve slavery were _also_ Christians. And those pro-slavery Christians had better biblical backing for their position.

Yes, it does. You know what would have solved this debate? If Jesus said, “Do not own people as property”. I guess telling people to stop wearing mixed fabrics is more important. Maybe it would have been better to include a commandment outlawing slavery, rather than those concerned with God’s ego and jealousy.

@HeavensKnightofLight

8 ай бұрын

He does say that, it’s Exodus 21:16 lol

@TezzyDE

8 ай бұрын

@@HeavensKnightofLightthat versebis about kidnapping and selling into slavery not him saying slavery is wrong

@Ben_Jamin707

8 ай бұрын

The sad part is you don't realize you're a slave to sin and yet there's a way for you to be free.

@HeavensKnightofLight

8 ай бұрын

@@TezzyDEkidnapping and selling them is literally slavery… you can’t be serious. Bruh

@HeavensKnightofLight

8 ай бұрын

@@TezzyDEyou just made it obvious that no matter what anyone says, people like you who have a agenda against God will always twist things and make excuses. If ya’ll desperately want to be enemies of God then just be straight up and say that. Just know though, time is running out.

TLDW: Yes!

@1952monkey

22 күн бұрын

1 Timothy 1:9-11 English Standard Version 9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

The fact that the Bible doesn't condemn and outlaw the practice of owning another human being is problematic. Sure, it gave instructions and regulations, but the fact that you get to own people as "property" (regardless of how nice you might treat them) is an issue that atheists and skeptics are quick to point out.

@MaryHadALittlelamb1

5 ай бұрын

So what about a poor family who has no home or food? Do they sell themselves as servants or do they starve themselves to death?

@antsly

5 ай бұрын

That's the only options for a poor family? Have we not constructed a society where that is not the case? It's not hard. ​@@MaryHadALittlelamb1

They will become your property.. I’m sorry but that is wrong no matter what way you dress it up and ask very sinful people to be nice… smh

@Andysceptre

Жыл бұрын

Well... That's God's will You can't be mad that God didn't spare the toddlers in Sodom and Gomorrah

@alienwarex51i3

4 ай бұрын

@eptre Yeah you can. Any normal person would shudder to think about the god of the universe doing something like that. Any reasonable person would look at the story of Elisha's two bears and cringe, asking themselves, "Is this really the kind of god I want to believe in?" If that's "God's will" then that god is an asshole, plain and simple. The fact that people are willing to see their god commit genocide in the scriptures and condone slavery, condone the killing of gay people, and a whole host of other atrocities, really just speaks to the amount of denialism required to accept the truth claims made by proponents of the Bible.

@Doctor_Fate5

4 ай бұрын

@@alienwarex51i3 Jesus loves you ❤️

Context is everything! The people that make those accusations against Christianity are not taking scripture in context and are generally enemies of our faith. Most of these "contradictions" come from either muslims or atheists.

@waxworse

Жыл бұрын

Or, if you try to point out context, they accuse you of either cherry picking, or that you're rationalizing scripture to fit your beliefs.

@pitAlexx

Жыл бұрын

They fall for a trap. Their accusations will be used against them. It is not just the Bible but everything else that talks about history that show slavery, in the past, was part of life. It was not seen at all as it is seen today, we can say it was part of the norm. You cannot turn an entire culture or full society 180 degrees on this with just one command. God worked through the times of the specific era, regulating and guiding humans to reach the conclusion by themselves. But they, the accusers should think of themselves and ask: "how would I have been in those times?" It's going to be jaw-dropping when they stand before God, try to bring this up and God says: "if you were born then you would've had slaves, and saw nothing wrong with it". Because all you have to do is analyze yourself against the norms of today. Do you see nothing wrong with abortion? That's a high chance you would be ok with slavery if you were back then too. They can also put themselves in God's situation and go: "How would I go about changing the entire planet's mentality regarding this?" I think it's easy to see that the answer is not just to command them to stop it.

@Scorpion-my3dv

Жыл бұрын

Exactly

@nickbrasing8786

Жыл бұрын

I understand the context, I just happen to think that there is no context where lifelong chattel slavery is not immoral. What is the context that makes it ok for a child to be born into lifelong chattel slavery in the Bible? I've never understood that one and people don't talk about it.

@Disciple793

Жыл бұрын

@@nickbrasing8786 If they have rights, it's not chattel slavery. The whole book of Leviticus gives instructions on how to treat slaves. Remember slavery is a man-made intuition. It did not come from God.

Israelite slave= only 6 years Foreign slave= 👍🏾

“Do not rule over your fellow ISRAELITES ruthlessly. “ Does this imply that gentile slaves may be treated ruthlessly?

@TheDapperSwindler

Жыл бұрын

Yes it does. The NRSV version of the Bible, considered by scholars to be among the (if not the single) most accurate translation(s) of the Bible we have, brings this into sharper relief: "You may keep them as a possession for your children after you, for them to inherit as property. These you may treat as slaves, but as for your fellow Israelites, no one shall rule over the other with harshness." - Leviticus 25:44-46 (NRSVUE)

@vincentterrey5427

3 ай бұрын

⁠@@TheDapperSwindler”if your brother becomes poor beside you and sells himself to you, you should NOT make him serve as a slave. He shall be with you until the year of Jubilee” (lev 25:39-40) These two versus disprove your argument, we are supposed to love each other as brothers and sisters in Christ, those who disobey this portion and focus on the subsection you did are simply dishonest about their research.

@TheDapperSwindler

3 ай бұрын

@@vincentterrey5427 You didn't read past that and look at verses 44-46, did you?

@vincentterrey5427

3 ай бұрын

@@TheDapperSwindler the whole idea is not to say slavery is “good” but the rules of the land for almost all of humanity had some sort of slavery. Verses right before yours commands to treat them as your brothers and if we treat even slaves in God’s image then there should not be pain and suffering. History proves that slavery was used to belittle others not just American slavery. I think bc you have this narrow view of the word and term “slave” that it taints the words you read

@vincentterrey5427

3 ай бұрын

@@TheDapperSwindler let me give you an example that may make sense to you. People can adopt or have kids and let’s say they are on a farm. If the intent was to adopt or have kids to run them to the ground in labor and abuse, then that’s in their heart and is undoubtedly wrong and objectively as bad. There are examples of people treating them as equal and that is what God calls us to be. Even Jesus washed the disciples feet which is a job for “slaves”

An even more important question to ask is: Does the Bible condemn slavery? Anywhere at all? No, the Bible instructs how both Jews and Christians ought to conduct slavery, with the descendants of Abraham receiving special rules, which Christian apologetics today pass off as universal rules, despite it specifically states that you can take slaves from foreign lands as property for you to keep forever or sell off to be kept forever. The Bible only ever tells how a descendant of Abraham can be freed from slavery.

@mouselim72

Жыл бұрын

In fact, slavery is a necessary form of survival. However, as with all things, men (or should I say humankind to avoid being a sexist :D) corrupt what God made right. Slaves are treated like animals (and sometimes pets are treated better than humans) and mere commodities, to be used, abused and discarded.

@hughjanus2781

Жыл бұрын

False the Bible does endorse slavery

@9432515

Жыл бұрын

Debt servants are not slaves as we know it. Deut15.1-17 v6 loans to rid the poor throughout the land, Hebrews first then Gentiles. Redemption is buyback from debt..right??? Redeemer Christ of the world last I checked

@Thor.Jorgensen

Жыл бұрын

​@@9432515 What of the slaves that are taken from war? Or bought as property from foreign lands, not from debt? Those slaves are to remain slaves forever if you are to follow the rules written in the Bible.

@9432515

Жыл бұрын

@@Thor.Jorgensen but the foreigner WAS a debt servant (Deut15)…they just had to pay their debt off on their own (fin&sin). They had no redemption of debt bc no covenant…UNLESS they too converted in, which is entirely the point. Deut29.10-15. Christ given to the world IS God given to the Gentiles. He’s the Redeemer. Those captured in war..btw only happened on the way to Canaan by judgement from God, or defensive..these were left to integrate in as living casualties of war. They could convert too as it says in Deut29. Or refuse and wait for the Jubilee. Choice is key to the Bible. It’s fundamental to it.

No matter what you say you can't sugarcoat slavery

@ballin3230

7 ай бұрын

Think of the time, slavery was common practice. It says that they shouldn’t be ruthless so it’s not the “get beaten and work all day type of slavery”. Context matters

@FriendlySlots

6 ай бұрын

@@ballin3230 being owned by anyone, is appalling. Jews had two laws, one for the jew the other for foreigners.

@FriendlySlots

6 ай бұрын

Just by hebrews stating and writing they are the chosen people is racist, the chosen ones, the elect, the master race. Sounds familiar.

@ballin3230

6 ай бұрын

@@FriendlySlots what kind of dumb statement is that? It’s God’s people because of where Jesus was born. Where in the Bible does it say “only hebrews are saved”? If they are the master race then GOD would only save them and no one else. Last time I checked the Bible said Jesus died for humanity not a race. If GOD only cared about one race then why are there other races to begin with? Why isn’t everybody the same ethnicity? You can’t answer because you don’t know what you are talking about man you’re just talking. Making up things because you don’t understand the Bible or GOD.

@alienwarex51i3

6 ай бұрын

My dude, God is literally giving different rules for slaves depending on whether they're an Israelite or not@@ballin3230

YES..... LEVITICUS 25:24

It is wrong to say that "outside of Israel, slaves had no rights". The Biblical laws did not differ in any important respect from the rest of the ancient Near East.

So short answer yes but it gave them… some rights? Not the right to uh “not be slaves” though

Kudos to the presenter for both allowing comments and showing the verse where chattel slavery was fully allowed. The argument about changing customs slowly is bunk. There was no slow walk on shellfish or mixed fabric clothing. Also the fact that SOME Christians were abolitionists was DESPITE their religion rather than because of it. Slavers in the US quoted scripture as justification FOR slavery. The fact remains that we are all more moral than the god of the Bible because we rightly condemn slavery.

@skiamach6208

Жыл бұрын

The pro-slavery Christians quoted scripture because their abolitionist Christian brothers were accusing them of being un-Christian by keeping slaves. The question of whether slavery might be immoral was only ever asked in Christian societies. Our modern society believes slavery is evil because of a Christian influence. Slavery was outlawed world-wide because a Christian country (England/British Empire) pushed abolition on countries around the world. It used its navy in an effort to stop the slave trade and used its political and economic might to influence other nations to abolish slavery. Philemon is the book that best explains the attitude toward slavery in the New Testament. A slave had run away from his master to Paul. Both master and slave were Christians. Paul sent the slave back to his master with a letter. While Paul did not command the master to free his slave, Paul did tell the master that the slave was his brother and that he should treat him as such, very strongly implying that he should free his slave. In the NT the greatest virtue is love. Love God, love others, love even your enemy. Masters were to love their slaves. Slaves were to love their masters. That it took over 1800 years for Christian love to finally abolish slavery should be embarrassing for Christians, but no one else even contemplated it. Finally, in regard to your comment on shellfish and fabric, the early church started as mostly Jewish (Jesus, the Apostles, the disciples that followed Jesus in Judea, and Paul). It quickly spread to gentiles. The Jewish believers continued to do the usual Jewish things, attending synagogues on Saturdays as well as meeting with fellow Christians on Sundays. They would also have continued to not eat shellfish and not wear mixed fabrics. The earliest controversy in the church was whether gentile believers needed to convert to Judaism in order to become Christian. The answer to that was "no". So, the gentile Christians never had to not eat shellfish or not wear mixed fabrics. So, I guess you could say there really wasn't a "walk" at all on those things. I do know that even today some (many I think) messianic Jews choose to keep kosher.

@Heb101922

11 ай бұрын

A lot of people quote scripture to justify their position. You do it to reject the truth of the gospel, so you point actually holds no water.

@seetsamolapo5600

11 ай бұрын

Where does that morality come from if there's no moral giver? What's the point?

@wbdill

11 ай бұрын

@@seetsamolapo5600 A result of evolutionary processes where groups with social cohesion increase survivability, thus passing it onto their offspring.

@seetsamolapo5600

11 ай бұрын

@@wbdill doubtful. My experience is that most humans are moral because of consequences or conditioning else everyone acts of self-interest

It is incredible the twists you take in an effort to excuse the inexcusable.

It's insane the lengths apologists will go to to defend their ancient holy book. It's a black and white question: is it ok to own people as property? If you answered "no" then congratulations, you are more moral than the god of the Bible and Jesus. If slavery is immoral it doesn't matter what time period the Bible was written in, period end of story.

Can you explain why God allowed slaves? Why would He permit slavery?

@JB-yb4wn

Жыл бұрын

Because he's a hypocrite.

@JesusLightsYourPath

Жыл бұрын

@@JB-yb4wn That's not an explanation. Leave

@BlGGESTBROTHER

Жыл бұрын

@@JesusLightsYourPath Because the Bible was written by men and clearly not inspired by a God. As such it reflects the values and morals of the ANE men who wrote it. To them it never even crossed their minds that slavery would one day be seen as an immoral practice. It was just a natural part of everyday life for them.

@toma3447

5 ай бұрын

They weren’t slaves. They were servants and it was normal practice in the ancient world.

@alienwarex51i3

4 ай бұрын

@@toma3447 Nah definitely slaves. Bondservant in the KJV means slave, that's why there is a distinction made between bondservants (slaves) and hired servants or sojourners (see Leviticus 25:39-40). Plus, this verse makes it extremely clear that it's talking about owning people as property (slavery) and not just indentured servitude (which is still immoral): "If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself." Exodus 21:4

Yes.

Forgot this one buddy Exodus 21:20-21 "When a slaveowner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property." Literally saying that you BEAT your slaves without punishment unless it kills them in a certain amount of time

@angelmirmartinez9096

Жыл бұрын

Let me unpack this one for you... First of of all these verses are not a manual to show you how to beat your "slave" ( although the most suitable translation in this case for the Hebrew word Ebed is servant) and get away with it. Second. I suggest you read the whole chapter the clues or hints for a proper interpretation are there. Third. When a Hebrew person had a debt or was poor and couldn't afford shelter and food he could "sell" himself willingly to work for his " master" for a 6 year period to pay for his debt or obtain food and shelter. In this case you see volition, a determined period of time and a compensation for the work. Fourth. In the very same chapter it says on verses 26-27. “When a man strikes the eye of his slave, male or female, and destroys it, he shall let the slave go free because of his eye. If he knocks out the tooth of his slave, male or female, he shall let the slave go free because of his tooth. This law was given to specifically prevent for mistreatment to the slave. If the boss physically abused the servant they had to let him leave and lose the money of the debt or the money he invested in buying the servant's services for 6 years. Fifth. Verse 20 of the same chapter says that if a boss beats a kills a servant, the servant would be avenged. How was the servant going to be avenged? “Whoever strikes a man so that he dies shall be put to death. Exodus 21:12 ESV If a boss killed his servant he was put to death. So in a world with no forensic methods to determine the cause of death of a person , they have to allow for one day or two to determine if the servant's death was a consequence of the beating. When it said there is no punishment it means that since the servant survived, no capital punishment was enforced to the boss but according to the text, he had to let him go losing all the money the servant owed or the price he paid for the 6 years of service. The whole explanation is in the same chapter.

@vatoruby3557

Жыл бұрын

@@angelmirmartinez9096 First, your all loving and ALL KNOWING god approved this knowing very well that in the future this text would be used to justify their actions when a Slave owner or Servant owners would whip slaves though it was't fatal or didn't knock a tooth or an eye they still didn't lose their slave because they didn't kill them. This wasn't to decrease mistreament it just made people get more creative with their punishment and condoned slavery yea this happened thousands of years ago but that doesn't matter when God knows everything in the past,present, and future, and be honest do you thing every servant/slave willingly became that or was majority stolen? This one of the many inconsistent error and hypocrisies in the bible where one thing is said that completely does a 180 and says oh we don't do that just like with homosexuality in the bible. But Ill leave you hypocritical text that condones Death and excommunication in the rules of god Deuteronomy 23:2, Ephesians 6:5, Leviticus 20:9, Leviticus 20:27, Exodus 23:23Leviticus 20:10, Leviticus 20:13 . There is still hand fulls to add but you probably wont even look at half of these texts.

@angelmirmartinez9096

Жыл бұрын

@@vatoruby3557 It is not God's fault that people misinterpreted or misuse the bible in fact , He warns against this practice. 2 Peter 3:16: 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. The Bible is showing a work relationship that is different to modern or African slavery. It was Volitional ( death penalty enforced to kidnappers) for 6 years, worker got compensated, laws were enforced to avoid mistreatment and death of the worker. That is explicitly stated in the text. It is not my interpretation, it is what the text says.

@AlCapwnd-tb5ow

Жыл бұрын

@@angelmirmartinez9096 Leviticus 25:44-46 44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

@Grendel-td5nf

Жыл бұрын

@@angelmirmartinez9096 only Hebrew slaves were released after 6 years. All other slaves were lifers.

Surprisingly, misses out the ‘slaves obey your masters’ wonder why?

Sorry, I don't think I heard your answer to the question e.g. "yes" or "no" - so what's the answer? "Yes, but slavery wasn't that bad in the OT and NT?". If so, say so.

It is nice to see a proper biblical perspective and not someone talking out of their backside. Thank you for taking the time to post this for us all to see and learn! God Bless!

@Grendel-td5nf

Жыл бұрын

He skipped all the laws for non Hebrew slaves. The ones you passed on to your children when you died. The ones that can be bought from surrounding nations. He is lying to you.

@theintelligentmilkjug944

Жыл бұрын

​​​​@@Grendel-td5nf he literally mentioned those you did not watch the video entirely. 2:10

@Grendel-td5nf

Жыл бұрын

@@theintelligentmilkjug944 oooops! You’re right that he did include those verses. Most apologists/pastors/theologians leave out those verses when defending slavery. I’m now going to listen to him explain how those verses are not condoning slavery.

@theintelligentmilkjug944

Жыл бұрын

​@@Grendel-td5nf According to him what I'm getting out of this video slavery wasn't defended nor abolished with the Mosaic laws, but instead regulated by God allowing the Israelites to take slaves from the gentiles since they were supposed to be eliminated as commanded by God.

@Grendel-td5nf

Жыл бұрын

@@theintelligentmilkjug944 there were also laws about how Hebrews were to treat fellow Hebrew slaves. Slavery was condoned.

yes it does.

@1952monkey

22 күн бұрын

1 Timothy 1:9-11 English Standard Version 9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15

The Bible never demanded an end to the practice but supported it by asking fugitives to go back to masters. So there is no Scriptural authority to end it.

@Doctor_Fate5

4 ай бұрын

Deuteronomy 23:15-16 advises against returning a runaway slave to their master, encouraging mercy: "You shall not give up to his master a slave who has escaped from his master to you. He shall dwell with you, in your midst, in the place that he shall choose within one of your towns, wherever it suits him. You shall not wrong him."

Hello Nick - it is my teenage son with autism who has been exploring his ideas on faith and the Bible with you in this forum. I have only recently seen your exchanges and discouraged him from continuing as I recognise emotions seem to get quite high. Thank you for taking the time to respond, but no further responses are needed.

@nickbrasing8786

Жыл бұрын

No problem at all Est. I hope you can help him work through some of his questions. He seems to have a genuine curiosity. I wish you well my friend.

@est1285

Жыл бұрын

@@nickbrasing8786 hey this is the teenage son with autism speakong.Sorry if i came off hostile it's not you it's the other two in these in the comments that were annoying me. Yeah ive been thinking about this subject recently and i wanted to find answers. I know my mum said no further responces but i felt like i had to apologize. thank you and i'll think more ratinally next time

@nickbrasing8786

Жыл бұрын

@@est1285 No apology necessary at all Est. There is nothing wrong with being passionate about a subject. We're all human after all. I've traveled the same road you're on in trying to find an answer to this. I just think I might be further down the road so I thought I'd try and help if I could. If I've added anything to your knowledge then I'll consider this a success. I definitely have thick skin so again, don't apologize. You've done nothing wrong. Continue on your journey. Knowledge is a good thing. And I assume your parents would agree.

@jeffersonbates8594

10 ай бұрын

Blaming a disability needs teenage son bc he is exploring the truth ? What is in the Bible ? Allow him to educate himself he will soon grow to become a very wise man . God bless the children of god

Yes! The Bible did condone slavery. The word slavery differs in two aspects from modern terms. Indentured servitude and people who became slaves after being captured in war. You either had a choice or no choice. It doesn't seem to make sense that anyone would choose to be a slave until you compare it to asking why anyone go to work? Look at the alternative. Then look at the benefit. What about people who became slaves after being captured in war. Or in modern terms people who committed the crime of murder then served hard labor in prison. Look at the alternative. Then look at the benefit.

@TheDapperSwindler

Жыл бұрын

Slaves could be bought from surrounding nations, kept indefinitely as property and treated harshly, per Leviticus 25:44-46. So, war captives were not the only case where this could happen. And if you seriously are comparing the choice of "become a slave or be killed/excommunicated from your land" with going to work, then you are very, very divorced from reality.

@johndavid3474

Жыл бұрын

@@TheDapperSwindler Leviticus 25:43 says to NOT treat slaves harshly. Read the entire chapter for a better understanding as slaves were purchased from both camps. The Israelites were God's servants who served God and the foreigners or strangers lived and served among God's people. The benefit was that slaves served both God's people and ultimately God. According to the Old Testament.

@TheDapperSwindler

Жыл бұрын

@@johndavid3474 " As for the male and female slaves whom you may have, it is from the nations around you that you may acquire male and female slaves. You may also acquire them from among the aliens residing with you and from their families who are with you who have been born in your land; they may be your property. You may keep them as a possession for your children after you, for them to inherit as property. These you may treat as slaves, but as for your fellow Israelites, no one shall rule over the other with harshness." - Leviticus 25:44-46 (NRSV) Hebrews were not to be treated harshly, and this is specifically set counter to how you may treat slaves acquired from surrounding nations.

@johndavid3474

Жыл бұрын

@@TheDapperSwindler Yes they were not to be treated ruthlessly or harshly because the Israelites belonged to God. If you read further the explanation is given in verse 55. The Israelites are slaves to God almighty.

@TheDapperSwindler

Жыл бұрын

@@johndavid3474 And the non-Israelites _could_ be treated harshly. Are we just ignoring that?

Leviticus 25:44 You can give your slaves to your children as inheritance.

@pleaseenteraname1103

Жыл бұрын

OK did he ever deny that? The video is less than 10 minutes it’s not supposed to be a detailed analysis or history on biblical slavery. It’s just supposed to give the basics of what biblical slavery is and what exactly was going on. The slaves that are being purchased or that Israelites are allowed to purchase or a small fraction of slaves in Israel, and they were only allowed to purchase them for a short period of time, it’s later over turned in the book of Deuteronomy. So that’s why he’s not focusing on it. He’s going to primarily focus on what was most predominantly practiced.

@thepracticalinvestor2386

Жыл бұрын

Yes, the heathens that hated God and wanted to destroy the nation of Israel. Or would it have been better for God to command the killing of them?

@cygnusustus

Жыл бұрын

@@pleaseenteraname1103 "It’s just supposed to give the basics of what biblical slavery is and what exactly was going on." Huh. I thought it was supposed to answer the question "Does the Bible condone slavery."? The answer is an obvious "yes", but I don't recall him stating this.

@cygnusustus

Жыл бұрын

@@pleaseenteraname1103 " The slaves that are being purchased or that Israelites are allowed to purchase or a small fraction of slaves in Israel, and they were only allowed to purchase them for a short period of time" Of course, both of your claims are lies that you simply made up for convenience.

@pleaseenteraname1103

Жыл бұрын

@@cygnusustus wow you trolls just really pop out of nowhere don’t you? Buddy you have a lot of homework to do before you can even begin to have an intelligent conversation about this topic or anything related to the Bible. The video is just giving the basics of biblical slavery, and most of what was practiced was voluntary det servitude, for economic reasons to help the poor. What you’re describing is a small fraction of what was allowed, so that’s why he didn’t spend any time on it because why would he. Says the troll that does nothing but project his own assumptions about slavery in the west onto the Bible and jump to radical conclusions about what’s actually being permitted. Without bothering to actually look into it.

not sure why some are acting as if God created slavery

Lol 😅 ...this is just SAD. The mental gymnastics to justify slavery.

@Wigz12

Ай бұрын

As if slavery, murder, and rape are wrong in your worldview

This is an excellent example of how the Bible promotes relative morality.

@1952monkey

22 күн бұрын

1 Timothy 1:9-11 English Standard Version 9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

Other people: they have rationalized the unpleasant aspect of their religion. They themselves: we are chosen to have the word of god.

Short answer, yes. Long answer yes it foes

Blessed🙏 I am not a Christian, Muslim, Jew thanks Bhagat 🙏

@fortunatomartino8549

10 ай бұрын

You don't have slavery in your history? Christians ended slavery

So the short answer is yes, the bible condones slavery on multiple occasions

@1952monkey

22 күн бұрын

1 Timothy 1:9-11 English Standard Version 9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

Forget if the bible condones slavery, why doesn’t Paul expressly condemn it?

Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property. Exodus 12:20-21 Read that. It's literally say that you can beat them within and inch of their life. They could even die a week later and the slave master would not be held responsible. There is no way to justify it. If God is perfect and never changing, and if slavery was morally acceptable then, it would be morally acceptable today. It took HUMANS to decide slavery was evil. Too bad there wasn't a commandment that said, "You shall not own other human beings as property". Also, a truly mora teaching would not be to "obey your earthly masters". The true moral teaching would be. "slave masters, free your slaves".

“Got Cherry Pick” should be the name of this channel.

The Gospel was so life changing it took 1800 years for Christians to realize slavery was a bad thing. Don't make excuses for your old book. Slavery is, and always has been, immoral. A god that truly was an "agent of morality" would have understood that and said plainly that slavery was wrong. Instead he choose to be offended by shrimp, pigs, and mixed fabrics. ✌️

@Bleak1302

7 ай бұрын

The Old Testament said No to Shrimp and Pigs for a reason, Because they were Dirty. Until God cleansed it (Acts 10:15) And Mixed Fabrics were no allowed because it was for High Priest, I recommend you read before jumping into conclusion.

@Bleak1302

7 ай бұрын

How would you know Slavery is Wrong?

@alienwarex51i3

6 ай бұрын

@@Bleak1302 By asking a slave. Or, if you don't have access to one, maybe just by using your brain to think about it for a little bit.

@Bleak1302

6 ай бұрын

Well what if the slave being talked about was voluntarily doing it and had to pay of debts? @@alienwarex51i3

@Wigz12

Ай бұрын

This guy is commenting as if slavery is wrong in their worldview.

You glossed over Hebrews having gentile slaves (and seemingly ruling them ruthlessly)

@Doctor_Fate5

4 ай бұрын

Just stop LoL

@WePlugGOODMusic

4 ай бұрын

@@Doctor_Fate5 you’re jumping around videos not answering any questions. Is that how you spend your evenings?

@Doctor_Fate5

4 ай бұрын

@@WePlugGOODMusic Exodus 23:9 : "Do not oppress a foreigner; you yourselves know how it feels to be foreigners, because you were foreigners in Egypt."

@WePlugGOODMusic

4 ай бұрын

@@Doctor_Fate5 what does this actually mean? This actually doesn’t address owning gentile slaves and passing them onto your children as property and owning them for life as Leviticus 25 states. So not sure what you’re meaning here.

@Doctor_Fate5

4 ай бұрын

@@WePlugGOODMusic ever heard of voluntary servitude and security measures

Historically unprecedented? No. Sorry. Let me know if you would ever like to discuss this.

@nickbrasing8786

Жыл бұрын

What? And be corrected by someone who's done the research? Perish the thought Josh/Megan...

Yes!Yes! it does!

@russell311000

Жыл бұрын

You better speak that!!!!

The basic rights provided to slaves in Exodus 21 applied only to Hebrew slaves (indentured servants). Those protections did not apply to foreign slaves. Foreign slaves could be bought, sold, separated from their families, kept for life, passed down as inheritance, beaten, killed, and raped by their masters with impunity. So yes. The Bible absolutely condones slavery every bit as bad or worse than chattel slavery in the antebellum south. Christians were more active in protecting the institution of slavery than in abolishing it. It was only after Christians began adopting Humanist views that opposition to slavery grew.

Slavery is the resort of the Fall of Man, just as sin, death, war, suffering, and sickness are the result of the Fall. Ruies for warfare are also in the Bible. Tooth decay is also not prohibited in the Bible.

@milo_thatch_incarnate

6 ай бұрын

This is an interesting angle on the debate, but I see a hole in it. There are plenty of sins that are “part of man’s nature“ after the fall, such as thievery, greed, lust, and murder for one’s own gain. The Bible condemned all of those, even though they are a result of the fall of man. The Bible doesn’t treat those sins like they are unavoidable and “just the way things are“ because of the fall. Why doesn’t it condemn slavery the same way?

@timothykeith1367

6 ай бұрын

@milo_thatch_incarnate The national identity of the Jewish people was that of an extended family who became slaves in Egypt. Hundreds of years later only about 44,000 Jews returned from the Babylonian exhile, where they had also been slaves. The attempt to portray the Hebrew Bible as pro-slavery and a cruel society belies those facts. That is why the Jewish people chafed at being under subjugation under the Roman occupation at the time of Jesus. Slavery was not fashioned into the psyche of the Jews, and they were warned to treat servants humanely.

As an honest Christian, I'll admit that slavery is generally one of those practices which have been confirmed as a moral law in the New Covenant, so even though such practices as slave-trading or unfair treatment of the war-captives/criminals are immoral in Christianity, still the slave-labour as a method of compensation, and use of force against a slave are moral options, or in some cases even a necessity for a Christian.

@9432515

Жыл бұрын

How can God be the slave master and the Redeemer at the same time? Redemption is buyback from debt..in scripture it is redemption of financial AND more importantly sin debt of GENTILES. That’s always been the plan..rid the poor throughout the land (Deut15) first Hebrews then Gentiles by loans, v6. God then redeemed that debt..after six. Gentiles were offered that same six yr service which incl free everything, free trade schooling, redemption of all debt, full grant after six. Deut29.10-15. Go read it.

@ivanos_95

Жыл бұрын

@@9432515 The point of releasing people of their loan-debts after seven years is to set a limit for the ones who are giving the loans, or to make sure that people aren't dept-slaves for life, but we do have actual slavery with cases when someone becomes a slave for life, or without the ability to fully pay the compensation in a single lifetime, so your case have nothing to do with the slavery which I was talking about in my initial comment.

@9432515

Жыл бұрын

@@ivanos_95 that’s not true…debt is inherited, not the individual. It’s the same now…the children pay the parents debt thru estate. That’s inherited debt. Look..debt servants were bought, sold, traded..and yes inherited. We STILL are in many ways if you only understood what goes on in banking and debt trade. Take credit card debt. It’s just not so obvious. These were loans to the poor..to rid poverty. It was only God that absolved that debt..you had to enter into covenant marriage with God. The Hebrews had that..the Gentiles were foreign to that BUT as Deut 29.10-15 states, it was offered to all standing there, foreign bond servant too..living or not yet alive. God was always after the Gentiles. It just was going to happen thru the Hebrews first. Ps2.8

@ivanos_95

Жыл бұрын

@@9432515 You can't compare today's standards to the Christian standards, where usury towards ones own people is illegal, and debts for loans are limited to seven years. Christian slavery is primarily about the depts for crimes, which can't be compensated directly, or when the value of harm goes above any estimation, not necessarily about the loans.

@9432515

Жыл бұрын

@@ivanos_95 debt bondage was not usury if the poor was working off a debt owed or for a crime as the foreigner could. Pls read Deut15. It’s the complete rundown of the plan. Let the rich invest money..the poor invest labor for six years. If in covenant with God..God absolved all debt financial and sin debt, then they were sent off to start a new life w a full grant Deut15.14. Once there were no more poor in the land..outsource the Gentiles to do the same. Loans to the poor. This was building a fledgling nation straight off that mountain in the previous chapters.

Making excuses for slavery. 🙄

@Wigz12

Ай бұрын

As if slavery is wrong in your worldview

In the case of Noah he made his own grandson Canaan a slave, seemingly in punishment for a minor embarrassment caused by Noah's son Ham. Keeping mind that Noah and Ham were both people chosen by God to survive the genocide.....

See also: Christian views on slavery The issues surrounding slavery dominated the 19th century in the United States.[41] This created tension between Baptists in northern and southern U.S. states over the issue of manumission. In the two decades after the American Revolution during the Second Great Awakening, northern Baptist preachers (as well as the Quakers and Methodists) increasingly argued that slaves be freed.[42] Although most Baptists in the 19th century south were yeomen farmers and common planters, the Baptists also began to attract major planters among their membership. The southern pastors interpreted the Bible as supporting slavery and encouraged paternalistic practices by slaveholders. They preached to slaves to accept their places and obey their masters, and welcomed slaves and free blacks as members, though whites controlled the churches' leadership, and seating was usually segregated.[42] From the early 19th century, many Baptist preachers in the South also argued in favor of preserving the right of ministers to be slaveholders.[43]

TL ; DR: Yes.

@TheDapperSwindler

Жыл бұрын

TL ; DR Yes, but we try our best to obfuscate that because it's inconvenient for our personal modern beliefs

Spends nearly 6 minutes, saying yes, the bible does indeed give rules for slaves. Then uses the bible to try and apologise for it. Yet not once did he say that the bible is immoral for the fact it gives commands on how to own slaves

@RetroRenegade8706

2 ай бұрын

Have you ever thought that maybe, back then, slaves were what we would nowadays call, employees? It's the way how culture worked back then. As sad as a reality it was, we cannot just sit back and deny that it happened. Man had free will to do what they wanted. God did not make slavery, man did. God intervened when the Egyptians enslaved the jews, and he led them out. We will never be able to know how the master works his creation, but do know that he has good plans in store for all of us, but evil still runs rampant in all of us, and God will bring a final end to it all, but he's still giving the evil ones a chance to turn and repent from their sins, and come back to him. Because once he ends evil, it will be too late for those who chose to continue in evil to rebuke it to be saved. When God wipes out evil, he will also wipe out the people who chose it.

@Venum941

2 ай бұрын

@@RetroRenegade8706 Your missing the all the parts where the rules are laid out specifically. If it was a employee situation like you say then why not make it clear that's the case instead it makes clear that it's not that at all and that it is indeed slavery and the fact you think you can defend owning other humans as property means you need to get a grip on your moral compass

The slave owners really believe that it did. Can you regulate rape, which is a part of human slavery? As soon as you said the word regulate you should have vomited right after the word left your mouth.

The answer is yes! The god of the Bible does condone slavery. The appalling thing is that the ten commandments ignores this practice. What would have been wrong with "THOU SHALT NOT OWN ANOTHER HUMAN BEING"?? Seriously, only six of the ten commandments deal with an individual's moral conduct, the rest deal with you serving a jealous god and mentions absolutely nothing about slavery.

Asking a question to a previous video: Do you receive all of the 5 Crowns once you get to heaven or just one?

@michaelwang1079

Жыл бұрын

The 5 crowns are not automatic or everyone, it's based on your performance in those areas.

@TheGospelGuy

Жыл бұрын

@@michaelwang1079 Thanks for this!

There are so many christian apologetics sites (including got questions) that deal with this topic and I guarantee you not a single atheist on this channel that has written anything down has ever looked them up. If people want to reject God they will do it. Regardless of what we say.

@nickbrasing8786

Жыл бұрын

Find one of those sites that's put out a video in the last few years that doesn't have a comment from me in the comments section. Because I've listened to them all. I'll wait.

@TheDapperSwindler

Жыл бұрын

You can guarantee all you want, but that isn't the case. I'm well aware of these verses and arguments, and as usual with them, where they fall short. Notice how this video mentions but skirts around Leviticus 25:44-46 without addressing it properly. When you read Leviticus 25 in full, you'll see it consistently makes a distinction between what we can call "indentured servitude" (selling yourself into slavery, going free after 6 years, etc.) which was reserved for fellow Hebrews and resident aliens living among them, and "chattel slavery" through which slaves could be "acquired" from the surrounding nations. This distinction is important because chattel slaves were allowed no such provisions about needing to volunteer or going free - they could be kept as property in perpetuity, and could be treated harshly (verse 46 can be vague on this in some versions, but the NRSV version is quite clear, and the NRSV is considered to be the most accurate translation). Though really, I'd argue that _all_ of the above (both chattel slavery and indentured servitude) are morally repugnant anyway - a god who is the arbiter of morality would have known this to be true as well, yet actively allowed the practice.

@hughjanus2781

Жыл бұрын

Exodus 21: 20-21 Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property. Stop making excuses for this awful book you call a bible.

@BlGGESTBROTHER

Жыл бұрын

@@hughjanus2781 At least it's appropriately names. *BUY BULL*

@thepracticalinvestor2386

Жыл бұрын

@@TheDapperSwindler yes, they were heathens. However, in Deuteronomy those laws are abolished regarding heathen slavery.

Do not forget 1 Corinthians 7:23 That we were bought with a price (the crucifixion of Christ on the cross). We are not to be the servants of men, and in that same place it says if you can be made free, to do so...verse 7:21.

you're explanation is better than most that I have heard. Usually people just make the excuses that "its not really slavery" and leave it at that while admonishing you for asking a question. That being said...the bible does tell people not to do some things that was accepted in the culture(s) around them and the bible could EASILY have told Jewish people to not own slaves but to buy them from other slave owners and set them free.

@guidodiman

4 ай бұрын

His whole talk is not clear, it is apologetic bull roar or horse shit which ever you choose. Christians are trained in Olympic level mental gymnastics. I know I attended 12 years of Catholic.....Indoctrination, believe or burn. He glossed over and conveniently omitted, Exodus 21:20-21 The beating of slaves was ok if they could recover in a few days. Words from the "loving" deity. Owning people for whatever reason is wrong and mental gymnastics will not justify a deity not condemning it from the start.

It’s immoral to defend owning other humans. If you have to scramble and try and put something “into context” you know it’s wrong.

@Wigz12

Ай бұрын

What's 'immoral'?

The god of the Bible is evil. If you don’t see it, then that is your issue.

@9432515

3 ай бұрын

God can’t be the slave master and the Redeemer at the same time. Maybe your definitions need improvement. Possession doesn’t automatically mean full control ownership. A loan binds you to it in name. It’s your possession by contract, but the banks still owns it, can REpossess it if delinquent. Right? Debt is still inherited by the children, passed down thru estate. Treat debt with rigour..strictness..no leniency whatsoever. It must be paid in full. That’s a pic of what God does with debt, fin&sin. It must be paid in full. Redemption IS just that, but it comes only thru covenant marriage TO God. Of gentiles..deut29.10-15

@danlopez.3592

3 ай бұрын

@@9432515 why do you restrict God’s power. Why can’t she be both? Debt must be agreed-upon. It could not be demanded by somebody without their will. This is an awful analogy.

Be nice to your slaves. It is exactly wath Jesus would hace done

The book literally says rules for slavery also says by your slaves from those around it literally says that right there in the book

So let me get this straight, the Lord chooses to change people gradually, but doesn't express that same notion when it comes to homosexually?

@jacksonfreeman7875

2 ай бұрын

I suggest looking at homosexuals testimonies turning to Christ. Slavery was also very different back then, masters often would treat their slaves more like servants/workers but gave them a home and food and took care of them

@ThatOneGuy58437

2 ай бұрын

@@jacksonfreeman7875If we’re all created in God’s image. Why did this “God” make homosexuals? Why did God make my friend gay if it’s so wrong.

@jacksonfreeman7875

2 ай бұрын

@@ThatOneGuy58437 every one has urges and impulses but you choose weather to give into them or not. Those attractions don’t come from God. If you want the answer to your question and other questions you may have please follow my suggestion. Testimonies are all over KZread (:

@Wigz12

Ай бұрын

​@@ThatOneGuy58437​​@ThatOneGuy58437 God didn't made us homosexual. The bible is clear that God created male and female. It's us who choose to be homosexual because of our sinful nature

No brainer yes it does !

@est1285

Жыл бұрын

no actchally it dose'nt

@nickbrasing8786

Жыл бұрын

@@est1285 What is this then? Leviticus 25:44-46; "As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be you property. You may bequeath them to you sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly" This is chattel slavery by definition, and this is the Bible condoning it by definition. So actchally it does!

@Thor.Jorgensen

Жыл бұрын

@@est1285 Where does the Bible condemn slavery? Nowhere. God directly speaks in first person, instructing how a Christian should conduct slavery.

@est1285

Жыл бұрын

@@Thor.Jorgensen There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus

@Thor.Jorgensen

Жыл бұрын

@@est1285 If thou buy a Hebrew servant.... Exodus 21:2 And the LORD hath blessed my master [Abraham] greatly; and he is become great: and he hath given him flocks, and herds, and silver, and gold, and menservants, and maidservants, and camels, and asses. Genesis 24:35 Now therefore ye are cursed, and there shall none of you be freed from being bondmen, and hewers of wood and drawers of water for the house of my God. ... And Joshua made them that day hewers of wood and drawers of water for the congregation, and for the altar of the LORD, even unto this day. Joshua 9:23-27 And if thy brother that dwelleth by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee.... Leviticus 25:39 If the ox shall push a manservant or a maidservant; he shall give unto their master thirty shekels of silver. Exodus 21:32 If a thief ... have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft. Exodus 22:2-3 Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God. Ephesians 6:5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ. Colossians 3:22 Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven. Colossians 4:1 Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God. Titus 2:9-10 Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward. 1 Peter 2:18

So what you're saying is because a man made government said it was legal.....God just let it slide?....God listened to man?....hmm interesting take

People fail to realize that it’s only recent in human history that slavery has been looked down upon. Slavery has been part of human history since the beginning

@Bugsy0333

10 ай бұрын

Recent ? On December 18, 1865, the 13th Amendment was adopted as part of the United States Constitution. The amendment officially abolished slavery, and immediately freed more than 100,000 enslaved people, from Kentucky to Delaware.

@mon3ylounge

10 ай бұрын

@@Bugsy0333 youre missing the point, like I said, that was less than 200 years ago compared to the thousands of years slavery has been part of human history. Slavery has has always existed since the beginning of humanity until recent. That is facts

@Bugsy0333

10 ай бұрын

@@mon3ylounge Do you feel slavery is wrong ?

@mon3ylounge

10 ай бұрын

@@Bugsy0333 in modern times yes But I’m not looking at 300AD with 2023 goggles. In ancient times, slavery was justified on a moral level and even philosophical level. I suggest you do your homework on ancient times

@boruttrost5750

9 ай бұрын

God had no problem prohibiting so many other things that were considered totally normal at the time.

Absolutely not! Atheists need to read the Bible, "set the captives FREE": Isa 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me, because the LORD has anointed me to bring good news to the poor; he has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound. Jesus said: Luk 4:18 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, Luk 4:19 to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."

@nickbrasing8786

Жыл бұрын

Personally I have read the Bible. But you're ignoring the problem verses like Leviticus 25:44-46 which says; "As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be you property. You may bequeath them to you sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly" This is chattel slavery plain and simple. And this is the Bible condoning it. Owning people as property for their entire lives, along with any children born to them. In context and unambiguous. I know what all the Bible says on the subject and what it does not (it never actually condemns slavery itself). At the end of the day, the Bible only tells us the correct way to own lifelong chattel slaves and never tells us it's wrong. It's just something I've never been able to wrap my head around.

@BlGGESTBROTHER

Жыл бұрын

@@nickbrasing8786 Not only is it "the Bible condoning it"; if you read the first verse of the chapter supposedly these are the instructions the Lord gave to Moses on Mt. Sinai.