This is the information I was given today! Much needed!!! Easy to know which camshaft sprockets is right for your application. Dodge/Chrysler made two different Power Control Modules (abbreviated as PCM's) for the 4.7 Liter size engine. And the 2003 is the transition year, in which the engine either has the JTEC or NGC PCM. The 1st generation of the Power Control Module (PCM) is called JTEC, and the 2nd generation is called NGC. These 2 Power Control Modules (PCM's) use different camshaft sprockets. The window arrangements on these 2 camshaft sprockets differ, and these window arrangements allow the sensor signals to pass through in order for the engine to be started. If you install the wrong camshaft sprocket onto your engine, the sensor signals will be blocked and your engine will not start when you try to crank it up. There is an easy way to tell the two apart: an NGC PCM has four connectors on it because it integrates the TMC (Transmission Control Module), while the JTEC has three connectors on it because it uses a separate TCM. I have included pictures of the JTEC and NGC PCM within this email message for you to see. The first image is of the JTEC PCM. - 3 plugs - images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81M4R-QGZBL._SL1500_.jpg The second image is of the NGC PCM.- 4 plugs - images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61Qy4a2fxCL._SX679_.jpg If you are unsure, you can look underneath the hood of your engine right next against the firewall or on the fender.

@salutations5749

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you! Im a newbie and just ordered parts today for timing. This is a really big job for me but im feeling good about doing after reading and watching much over the past couple of weeks. Do you just eyeball the sprocket? When the timing set i bought off of partsgeek, not cloys, comes in, is there something on the new sprocket to look for before i get the engine apart? I suppose i can eyeball it but i wanted to be as prepared as possible. Thanks for the info.

Guy is using his experience and passing it on others.....thats how ya do it! TY...Subbed!

I found this issue two days ago I been a tech for 31 years I did everything y'all done WOW

@sharpcarco

9 ай бұрын

John, it’s all about complacency brother… we know too much for anybody to teach us…. I appreciate you sharing that with us … that’s real right there…

I feel like I owe you a huge thanks. I'm currently doing timing chains on a 4.7 and I had a different question but I watched anyway and after the video I went and checked the new gear in the kit and sure enough it doesn't match! Thank you for saving me hours of work. Also I no better a usually match up the parts before I install but I'm willing to bet I probably would have forgotten that step

@sharpcarco

Жыл бұрын

Well, thank you very much. Sometimes my videos going a different direction than what they seem. I work on quite a few of them and I greatly appreciate having folks around like you welcome to the channel.

Great tip! 30 years as a mechanic, 10 years as Chrysler/Jeep tech. I left dealership over 10 years ago. I did the same thing with vise grips to hold cam even when i worked at dealership. Everyday is a learning experience in this business.

thank you . no one else can answer these simple questions means allot

Great vid man! Always be learning and never become complacent.

Thank you for your valuable information. Actually working on mines.

There is a jtec reluctor for early models and an NGC for later models. If your truck has 4 plugs on the computer then it is a NGC , if the pcm has 3 plugs its the old Jtec type.

This was the best kept secret when rebiulding timing on a 4.7. There is an early and late model the cam sensors are different and if the cams are different the length of the timing chain is slightly different. So you install a new chain from a kit, reolize the cam sensor is different and install the chain anyways you will note the tension adjusters will max out immediately on installation still giving you that timing chain tic that sounds like a bad lash adjuster.

Hey brother i hope you read your comments! I am an ASE MASTER auto tech with 40 years experience and i am currently working on a Chrysler 4.7l in a Dakota. I originally found bad compression on one cylinder and removed that head to have the valve seat removed from it's stuck sideways under the valve head position and restored to it's correct position by a machine shop and as i was putting the engine back together, with the frustration of those stupid timing chains , i inadvertantly broke the other head by impacting the chain guide bolt down with my big gun. I got super lucky that the customers landlord has a machine shop and a TIG welder and was able to repair the head and i have the new head gasket and bolts from the gasket set so today when i go back over to finish this truck it should all go smoothly! Anyway, if you can do it and i can do it someone else can have a bad day too! We ALL make mistakes! The worst thing i could have done would be to try to say it was already broken before i worked on it! Peace! Jim

@sharpcarco

Жыл бұрын

Well, we can all break things, but sounds like you over came it awesome story hope the video help you get through it

Humble is the new cool. Nice work Clay. Thx for these vid's. Don C

Thank you very much for the video. I had the same problem after installing new timing chain assembly. The tone ring was wrong for my 4.7. I made the mistake of throwing out the old cam gear so I went to the local wrecking yard and found the right one . Again thank you For saving my buttocks 👍

Thanks for your video good job

I once put a 03 up 4.7 in a 02 back. Pulled it back out and been pissed ever since.

God bless u we are in 2021 and we are scratching our heads of with this fool of a car thanks dude ur help is much apreciated

You hit it right on the nose here in el paso TX thank you good job

@sharpcarco

2 жыл бұрын

I love Texas I’m from Texas and I was out by El Paso earlier this year thank you for the comment and welcome to the channel

Great notes

Thank you for this videos, i hope make rigth this job.....

Thank you for sharing this information. I just replaced a 3.7 liter motor in a 1500 with a manufactured motor from a local builder. I will have to check this today. The motor is backfiring through the intake like the timing is a 180 out.

@sharpcarco

5 жыл бұрын

If you unplug the cam sensor and it runs Better more than likely the timing has jumped

@BTenn183

5 жыл бұрын

@@sharpcarco I unplugged the cam sensor and it still does the same exact thing . Anything i should look for. Crank sensor ant the cam sensor have been replaced as well ?

Your content is excellent!!!!

@sharpcarco

Жыл бұрын

Well thank you very much!

JTEC vs NGM engine is the difference. If your PCM has 4 plugs you have the new NGM design. 3 plugs is JTEC.

I swap a 2002 4.7 out of a Jeep Grand Cherokee into a 2003 Dodge Ram. Wouldn’t start. Come to find out, the reluctor rings change from 02 to 03. I had to pull the rings off the trashed 03 Ram engine and put them on the 02 Jeep engine. Runs fine. A real head scratcher for sure. Thanks for the advice.

Its because those trucks come with spark plug wires or ignition coils. They have different relucter rings.

@sharpcarco

2 жыл бұрын

No that’s not it. And if I recall correctly there’s very very few of these that actually come with spark plug wires. I think it was only like a two or three year deal. The reason they have different relucta rings is for the 3.7 and 4.7 these reluctor rings are different for the different size engines because the time in certain itself is still exactly the same with the exception of the reluctor ring on the passenger side of the cylinder head if you ever install the wrong reluctor ring you can unplug the cam sensor and the vehicle run Not good but you will definitely know that you have the wrong reluctor ring in there obviously I did not know that when I made this video but I do know because I worked on hundreds of these since

I'm getting ready to do this to a durango, you were able to do the ram without removing the radiator?

The passenger side tensioner table will only touch the guide for part of the revolution of the crank and the tensioner is maxed out. I replaced the timing chain set twice both cloyes and all same issue

That looks like a reluctor wheel for pre 2002 4.7 engine. They changed both reluctor wheels and tone ring configurations in 2002.

@rustypipes1976

Жыл бұрын

I think this was 2003 mid year they made this change..

@sharpcarco

Жыл бұрын

If we want to get ultra technical they changed it when they went from the 16 tooth reluctor ring to the 32 crank reluctant ring that’s why they changed it better monitoring of engine movement…… probably did it because of emissions more than likely….. Usually anything that gets to the government involved with anything makes it much worse and much more complicated unnecessarily

@kandmjsquared

Жыл бұрын

There is usually some crossover. My 96 dodge ram was a hodge podge of 95 and 96 components. It was frustrating finding parts when things needed replaced because we would often have to look up parts for the prior year.

Yep, it got me too

@sharpcarco

2 жыл бұрын

Sorry to hear that…… hopefully my video directed you in the right direction. I don’t think I had realized it at the time of making this video but if you unplug the cam sensor and the timing is set correct it will run…. Just as an FYI.

2 gears , one us jtec with a 3 plug ecm one is NGC it has a 4 plug ecm , changed is 2003 I believe

Asome good deal

Thanks Clay now when these guys at home mechanics are doing my 2005 Dodge Ram 1500 4.7L I can at least pay attention if they screw up or if something goes wrong. Another video says get my parts from Cloyes..don't use the Advance or O'Reilly's chains where you get those cheap parts in your assembly?

@sharpcarco

3 жыл бұрын

Personally I’ve used Chinese parts I’ve used them all it’s all a matter of how deep your pockets are obviously Cloyes Are probably some of the best aftermarket but I don’t really know that it makes all of that much of a difference if you can afford it by the good stuff

@carlhuddleson1028

2 жыл бұрын

What are you talking about what problem

might be a little late but you likely ordered the wrong year parts. Chrysler updated the 3.7 in I think it was 2005. the biggest change was from an ECM/TCM set up to a single PCM. along with this they changed both the crank tone wheel and cam reluctor ring. I discovered this trying to install a used engine in a liberty. big PIA

@sharpcarco

5 жыл бұрын

Yes it is too late but several times we have ordered the correct wheels and they are not manufactured as well as the original one so we just reuse them now but I do appreciate you trying to inform us

how do you get the pasenger saide camshaft to face straight up to put the timing chain on I cant get it to face straight up I keep rotating it but it doesn't want to stay up

@sharpcarco

Жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/oKGJo7ZmoMnQmbw.html I think this video might be better than the one that you watched Roy. It will describe how you have to do that. It would be too complicated to try to explain over a text message.

I made the same mistake and ordered the one with the tonne ring😩 Did you get it running without the cam sensor? Great video! I subbed.

@sharpcarco

5 жыл бұрын

Don’t worry we made the same mistake that’s why we made the video LOL glad it helped you have a great weekend thanks

Hi This was helpful. Was there any problems or codes that were happening before the fix? I'm chasing a p0016, truck starts up and idles. It's a 05 Ram 1500 4.7

@sharpcarco

5 жыл бұрын

I don’t remember if there were any codes or not. But if you pull the wiring harness to your camp sensor on the passenger side front of the head. And it stays running your timing is out of alignment. You can also hold on the gas at about 1000 1100 rpm’s and over about a 32nd time gradually release your foot off of the pedal and it may re-learn it’s idle. Dodge Chrysler I have what’s called a KAM (keep alive memory battery located on the inside of the ECM) and when the batteries been dead for a long time that battery goes dead too so it does not remember that idol. Hope that’s helpful and you understand it have a great day

Man that was very informative on the cam gear. However I learned absolutely nothing about how to install the timing set. Which is what the Fin video is titled.

@sharpcarco

4 жыл бұрын

I don’t know why I tagged it that way but I absolutely have excellent video of the timing installation. And I’d be happy to send you the link or you can look it up underneath my Dodge / Jeep playlist. We have some really excellent tricks for holding the timing chains while you put the gears in without having to fumble around sorry about that there must’ve been a reason for it

@sharpcarco

4 жыл бұрын

Oh I remember now I tagged it that way because it’s a short video I wanted to make sure no one put theirs all together and had the same problem as I did. I greatly apologize about that but I really meant to do something good for folks and save them a lot of hassle if This happened to them

@sharpcarco

4 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/oKGJo7ZmoMnQmbw.html

@michaelsgoproadventures9185

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the replies I got it figured out after a few hours. Lol. I'm an engine builder I had just never built this motor and wanted to just make sure I was setting the timing correctly. When you Google how to set the timing on a 4.7 Jeep this video is the first thing to pop up. I was in one of those situations where I told the customer I would have the motor back to the mechanic yesterday. So today I was running around like a chicken with his head cut off and then I googled the timing on the motor and got this five minute let down. So I was pissed when I left the comment. Lol.

@sharpcarco

4 жыл бұрын

Michael's Go Pro Adventures totally understand.

Maybe you can help i have an 03 4.7 with a code p0308 misfire in cylinder 8 i have replaced the plug, coil, idle air sensor, map sensor, intake charge sensor, wished it had a knock sensor, and did all of this because it seems to be a detonation knock that im hearing at higher acceleration rates let off the gas it stops press the gas it comes back but i cant hear it at slow acceleration rate any thoughts

@sharpcarco

4 жыл бұрын

It’s my experience that you probably have bad valves but that’s just the gas in this is just a text message please do not try to come over and kill me or something. I wish I could be of more help

I just went through same problem 😂😂

Its two different reluctor rings and tone wheels on the cam for the 4.7

@sharpcarco

5 жыл бұрын

It’s a possibility they sent me the wrong one for like a V-6 but it was definitely the wrong one. If you want to know if you have the wrong one or not after it is installed all you have to do is unplug the cam sensor on the passenger side head and if the vehicle would not run with it plugged in and now runs with it unplugged it is either out of time or you have the wrong Cam reluctor ring

How did you get the right cam gear bolt loose? Im struggling to get it off

@sharpcarco

3 жыл бұрын

Put a set a vice grips on The cam and you can hold it that way just make sure you don’t put it on a lob

so question . I installed my camshaft but didn't unscrew the cam gear . but I can't get the v8 to sit at 12o clock. it's a alittle over . and I remember when I removed the timing chain originally my cam gear jumped . so my question is can I just unscrew the cam gear and manually put it into the 12 o clock position or can I just put the chain on and move it over to 12 ?

@sharpcarco

6 жыл бұрын

The cam gear sits on a pin could’ve moved off of the pin and that’s why you cannot get it to line up properly . I hope that’s helpful . Good luck if you have anymore questions reach out to me on Facebook clays Aci and auto repair

@danpettis1675

6 жыл бұрын

Clay Rogers did you those vise grips to do your final torque on the cam gear?

@jeffmacdonald5730

6 жыл бұрын

Just did timing chains. When I removed the chains the pins moved from 12 O clock and when I put them back on had to grab the cams between the lobes and put them at 12 before I slipped the tone rings/gears back on. Engine rotates like it should no binding and all timing marks line up after rotating

Hell ya grand rapids

New subscriber! Just found this video because I was told by an auto shop that my timing is shot and that's why it won't start. But he was going to charge my $1100.00 for parts and then labor on top of that. I'm a disabled Veteran and I sure can't afford that. Not when I can order the parts myself for $250! So really glad for this video. My Dodge Ram is a 2004 3.7 v6, how do I ensure I order the right parts? I am going to try the reset first. Will it start like that or just reset the timing and then start after you plug it back in? Thanks for any help you can give!!!

@sharpcarco

5 жыл бұрын

Pretty much the same even if you ordered the wrong timing kit most only difference will be the reluctor ring on the passenger side cylinder head and you don’t even have to change that I think you will be OK just order a 3.7 timing kit I haven’t seen much difference between any of them. Thanks for the kind words

What was the time chain guide torque ?

@sharpcarco

4 жыл бұрын

Sorry I don’t know them things off the top of my head but I’m sure Google does or at least I would assume they do

Can anybody help me out. I have a 4.7 that was rebuilt. After 2 minutes of being on, it stalls. Took it to be diagnosed and mechanics say the readings of the crankshaft are reading crazy... It says 8000 revolutions, then 0, then 4000, then 0, then so on and so on. The engine used to work perfectly before, and now its doing this. Any idea? anything would seriously help.

@sharpcarco

4 жыл бұрын

I would highly recommend replacing the crank sensor. It’s just a loose connection and it’s losing signal make sure it’s plugged in correctly but it is something that is extremely fixable Also to make sure it’s not getting corrupted by the cam sensor you can unplug that. Keep it unplugged until you get it running right. The cam sensor is located on the passenger side front portion of the head

I ordered my kit from amazon for a steal, had this exact issue and I was pretty sure that this was the problem as my ECU gave a code the cam / crank code after hours of dicking with it. So where did you get your parts from? just curious if this is a normal auto parts store issue as well?

@sharpcarco

4 жыл бұрын

I got mine off Amazon I just put the original cam gear back on. Cam sensor on the passenger side head it should run pretty good if everything is set up correctly even with the wrong gear on

Hello . I recently replaced my head gasket as well on the same truck 2002 Dodge Ram 4.7. I sent the heads off to a machine shop and they got redone. I put new piston rings in the truck as well. My compression is low. Will timing make the compresson low in these motors?

@sharpcarco

6 жыл бұрын

That’s that’s a complicated question the answer did you file the piston rings when you installed them? and did the machine shop lap the valves ? Or grind of the valves s or grind the valves seats? These are very important steps to replacing in rebuilding your engine.I hope that lead you to more answers than questions

@emmanulerhodes9332

6 жыл бұрын

The machine shop reseated was the heads and everything it cost me about 400. But the compression is still low. Like 60-70 psi in some and 100-150 in others

@shawnmcfalls5413

4 жыл бұрын

yes the compression will be off some up some down because timing chains heat up and stretch the timing chains and rub on the guides losing timing specs or bad tensioners letting timing chains slap around damaging things and even jump timing tearing up the engine

Rebuilt my 2000 4.7, replaced chains, guides and tensioners only not gears. Runs like it's out of time? But all is in tine. Any ideas? Thanks

@sharpcarco

3 жыл бұрын

It’s probably got a bent valve it’s very common for them

@ozarkcharlie9331

3 жыл бұрын

@@sharpcarco thanks for the reply. Na, it's all new. Blew a head gasket and it was making a hell of a lot of top end noise when I bought it. So I just rebuilt the whole motor. Heads and all. But it runs odd when I start it like timing issue. Seen your video on cam timing gave me some ideas.

@stephaniejohnson90

3 жыл бұрын

Did I get it fixed if so plz tell me did same thing tonight

@ozarkcharlie9331

3 жыл бұрын

It was timed incorrectly. Removed all the timing chains, and re-timed as the manual instructs, fired right up. Thanks for yur help.

Me too 🤦🏻‍♂️🎻🕵️‍♂️

@sharpcarco

2 жыл бұрын

Well I don’t know if I said it in the video but you can unplug the cam sensor and run the engine if it runs correctly it’s just the gear that’s bad and you can remove Front cover and valve cover and change the gear without taking everything apart you just have to hold the timing and remove the tensioner I have video on it just look underneath my jeep playlist it’s how to change tensioners without changing timing… It’s kind of drawn out but it’s fun

How much is the average prize for this job??

@sharpcarco

4 жыл бұрын

It really varies from place to place I personally charge about 1600 parts and labor. But there may be places that charge a little bit less but I’m certain there’s places that charge a lot more

@alejandroperez119

4 жыл бұрын

Where you located??? My truck makes a noise early in the morning when i first cold start about 5 down the road it goes away i been looking everywhere under the truck and i just cant point where the noise its coming from and all the gages read normal no check engine light or codes at all

Can anyone comment to a reasonable price for this job? Replacing the chain, tensioners, sprockets, bolts….. complete job? Hell even just a crack it open price? Anything would help. Call my local dodge dealer and they quoted me 1300 for the job which seems like a deal but it also makes me wonder if it’s just throwing a new chain on and closing it up which won’t do jack of the tensioner is going out. Thanks

@sharpcarco

2 жыл бұрын

$1300 parts and labor is a pretty good deal, Ask them to use the 2002 to 2004 tensioners on it. They don’t allow oil to come out the tips any more than likely won’t ever have an issue with the timing chain again. By the way I charge more….. ijs but I replace everything

@Error404v22

2 жыл бұрын

@@sharpcarco I was a bit taken back by the price when he gave it to me especially being a dealer. I’ve got a 2011 1500 with the 4.7 and I’ve had a little rattle noise when the outdoor temp is cold for like a second on start up and goes away(doesn’t come back if I shut it off and start up again). Thinking it might be oil related but who knows lol. Also been having a p0300 code but it only pops up when under hard acceleration. I’ve paid a shop to change all 16 plugs and changed all coils myself plus air filter. If I never get on it then it never comes up but it sounds waaaaay to good to not give it a little tough love once or twice a month lol. I thought it could be fuel related but the “chain slap” rattle sound that occasionally occurs pointed me to the timing chain. Thanks for the advice!

I know you probably know this by now but the difference between the two is that the 2002 and the 2003 4.7 have different reluctor rings. I Fought that issue forever. 2003 reluctor ring on the crank has 32 teeth 2002 has 16 teeth and from what I found is 2003 has a different reluctor for the cam as well. Ugh!!!!!!

@sharpcarco

4 жыл бұрын

Well there may certainly be other people that don’t know that I think I ordered it incorrectly or they shipped it incorrectly. Nbd Knowledge is power

maybe change the title of the vid?

@sharpcarco

5 жыл бұрын

Why?

Dude, why not talk about the symptoms that you were experiencing at the beginning of the video instead of rambling on about crap that doesn't matter!?

@sharpcarco

2 жыл бұрын

I did I said it wouldn’t run…… and if yours won’t run you need to unplug the cam sensor which I’m fairly certain that I said in this video but maybe not it’s because the reluctor ring was not the right one…… I probably have more videos about this particular subject than most other channels. I work on these regularly…..

Helpful tips: 1. Start recording 2. Fix the damn problem 3. Cut out the monologuing

@sharpcarco

4 жыл бұрын

1. Start recording 2. Do it your way 3 .Upload to KZread 4. Have a great day Jesus loves you empty some of the anger out of your heart.