The funny thing about RTD mentioning Flux is that he actually cared more about its emotional consequences than Chibnall himself

@benhemsworth8555

5 ай бұрын

Exactly! This is why it's not a bad thing that RTD is continuing to handle Thirteenth Doctor plotlines, he clearly seems to be giving it more weight than Chibnall did.

@PsyrenXY

5 ай бұрын

@benhemsworth8555 the Toymaker instantly made me feel much better about the Flux and Timeless Child. RTD is back baby!

I think ignoring the random throw away "I'm half human on my mother's side." line is far different than ignoring a whole plot point with multiple episodes attached lol.

@FullFatVideos

5 ай бұрын

maybe but it still make its continuity mess. when the guard changes over i think its fine to say this is a soft reboot / retcon and were just going to tell new stories

@balthasarebbutt463

5 ай бұрын

@@FullFatVideos I think it's still (I REally really hope) hinting that the master was lying, and that the doctor isn't really the timeless child, just that it made him think about it

@davidpo5517

5 ай бұрын

@@FullFatVideos I don't know any die-hard doctor who fan who thinks twice about that. Being half-human was a stupid idea at the time, and people knew it, so they dismissed it from the canon. The fact Doctor Who was going through a weird time, what with America trying to take the reigns, was the perfect excuse. Hopefully it will be again with the Timeless Child stuff...one day....

@roryaphunter

5 ай бұрын

@@balthasarebbutt463 I'm gonna be honest, I think we're way past that being an option. It's been nearly 4 years since the Timeless Child reveal. It's here to stay.

@soupmanstevens160

5 ай бұрын

@@balthasarebbutt463How do you explain Tecteun, Azure and Swarm if the Master was just lying? It simply doesn’t work

I get the argument about the episodes not REALLY feeling like actual specials, but after so many years im thankful for just regular ass good episodes

@MsLouisez

5 ай бұрын

Yeah, I don't think there is 'scope' to do a special, ATM. It needs to get back on track, then think about how special it can be.

Bernard Cribbins' performance was heart shattering. May he rest in peace.

@FullFatVideos

5 ай бұрын

RIP

@bryanseenath5717

5 ай бұрын

o7

Honestly, Russel has done the smart thing with two storylines a lot of people didn’t like, and David was the best actor to sell how hurt the doctor was by them, the man has played a blinder

@TheJadedJames

5 ай бұрын

I say it is better to just roll with the Timeless Child/Flux and make the best of it than try to pull a Rise of Skywalker and wipe away the controversial proceeding story making the whole thing clunkier. As dumb as the Timeless Child is, it was well integrated into this week’s plot with Not-Donna using the fact that the Doctor doesn’t actually know his home planet against him

@JHannah-sl2iy

5 ай бұрын

@@TheJadedJamesyeh totally agree, honestly apart from anything else I thought the way rise of skywalker treated the last Jedi was incredibly disrespectful, like the last Jedi or not, creators should be respectful to each other’s work and not rip it to shreds in front of millions of viewers

@TheJadedJames

5 ай бұрын

@@JHannah-sl2iy You disrespect your own story when you break canon. In improv, if you walk into a scene and the other performers say you’re their uncle, then you’re their uncle. If you say something else, the story breaks down. Chibnall made the mistake of ignoring cannon, but Davies isn’t making a mistake by “doubling down” because what would actually be doubling down on canon breakage is undoing the last story further breaking any notion of consistency or rules. Rey’s backstory is important. ACTUALLY it isn’t. ACTUALLY it is. It’s just a mess. Rian Johnson should have never done that twist, but Abrams made the trilogy a complete mess when he choose to undo it. Imagine how stupid it would be if the next person to write a mainline Star Wars film was a passionate fan of The Last Jedi and spent their entire movie reasserting that Rey doesn’t have a special backstory. It’s too late for that now. We ALL hate Rise of Skywalker, but the only way to change Rey’s backstory now is with a time machine.

@carolinemcgovern4488

5 ай бұрын

Yeah. I think keeping them and exploring further was the smart choice instead of throwing them under the rug like Star Wars did. I hope the Timeless Child gets explored more in Ncuti's run too I think Russel could make work.

@indedgames4359

5 ай бұрын

​@@carolinemcgovern4488he will. Its gobe be already used toconnect him to Ruby Sunday

RTD did more with the Timeless Child in a few lines of dialogue than Chibnall managed in two seasons.

Disagree gang rise up, i really, really loved this episode. As someone who.hates the timeless child twist, i do appreciate that at least it has character conflict in this episode, something it never had in 13's run. This Doctor is more emotionally vulnerable and yet is hesistant to actually allow that to show cause it scares him. The budget was great, the monsters were spooky, the humor was impeccable. Maybe i just like it so much because of what came before, but this is top tier who.

@Picilishous

5 ай бұрын

I still can't forgive RTD for deciding to not retcon The timeless child. It was genuinely the worst story beat physically possible, worse than anything Star Wars has ever done.

@m.c4210

5 ай бұрын

Nah it was pretty mid who.

@mufinboi975

5 ай бұрын

I actually liked this episode and I really enjoyed the character conflict as a consequense of a big part of the universe being deleted. I do hope that they do a bit of damage control. And what I mean by that is that I want them to try to fix whatever they can with small moments like the one with David tennant getting really expressing his rage in that hallway. Try to move on to new things and maybe let some things be forgotten. But a whole seasons focus shouldnt be damage control for the past. I have to agree with him thought about if it was a 3 part story about the celestial toy maker then it wouldve felt a little more special.

@sebcat04

5 ай бұрын

I fucking PRAISE Russel for trying to turn something that missed the mark into something good, instead of awkwardly brushing over it and pretending it didn't happen. To straight up ignore the timeless child, as a writer, is a cowardly thing to do. Pretending it doesn't exist.

@itsbobcat8774

5 ай бұрын

⁠@@PicilishousChibnall is his friend he didn’t want to disrespect a friend, i don’t like the timeless child but i respect RTD for respecting Chibnall

Guys he literally retcons the timeless child in The Giggle in the perfect way😂. “I made a jigsaw of your history did you like it?” It’s clearly referring to the timeless child however it can be the headcanon that we once again don’t know what the doctor is.

Definitely one of the best episodes in a long time, but I agree that it felt a bit "mid-series". It's not as pure as Midnight or Heaven Sent, though still pretty good along those lines. It is rather a shame that it doesn't quite interconnect with the other specials as much as it could've. Makes the whole 60th feel less like an anniversary special and more like a mini-series, which tbh feels far too short.

@LukasOfTheLight

5 ай бұрын

My issue is that it makes all the noise of an "experimental" episode without actually adding anything new. The monsters feel like The Rebel Flesh crossed with Midnight, the captain plot feels like The Waters of Mars, and we've done "the edge/end of the universe" so often now. It's like experimental-Who-by-numbers, which is to say, not experimental at all. But it's still a good episode. Just one that is a lot tamer and more rehashed than it seems to think it is.

RTD got more drama and emotion out of the Flux in a 10 second exchange than Chibnaill could in several hours of television. RTD does more in just PART of a single scene than Chibnaill did in an entire series.

I would like to see the timeless child bit retconned too, but not by ignoring it, instead acknowledging it and then have a new storyline that specifically focuses on dismantling the narrative. Having the Doctor be genuinely confused about his origins makes sense in this scene, as he hasn’t had the chance to untangle himself from the timeless child story yet.

@artyb27

5 ай бұрын

Agreed - I don't want it ignored, I want it resolved. I'm actually very glad it's getting mentioned, and Tennant really sold the emotional impact of everything 13 went through in a way the scripts Whittaker was given just didn't allow her to. Now we wait to see if the fact the not-Donna brought it up was just a convenience for RTD to address it and move on from it, or as further setup for a confusion/dismantling plot.

@carolinemcgovern4488

5 ай бұрын

Now that would be very cool!

As someone who hates the concept of the timeless child, and also someone who didn't even see the episode about the flux. I thought it was a good choice to not just get rid of it being cannon since it was (sadly) a huge part of 13s story. Now what im upset about is that we dont get to have Tennant be the one dealing with those issues as hes always been one of the more emotional incarnations of the doctor. I think it was really smart to have us show how much it really weighs on the doctor. I think if we were given a proper season with Tennant as 14 then we could make the timeless child and flux storylines work. I mean RTD literally gave new who the conflict of the time war. Imagine if that concept was done bad and had every old fan upset because they miss gallifrey stories. I think we can take such a crazy concept such as the timeless child and maybe make it feel like doctor who as long as the writing is good and it really conveys a similar pain to losing gallifrey to the time war. I understand its not for everyone but still i think if anyone can do it its probably RTD

@isbammoi3358

5 ай бұрын

I agree. I really disliked it too because I thought the Doc was still interesting and mysterious enough to not need a whole new thing. BUT, I can also see it's potential to be made into something not stupid, so I'm perfectly fine with letting it go its way and seeing what happens. I'll stick along with the ride.

This episode showed me the Timeless Child truly wouldn’t have been as terrible as it was if the Pre-Hartnell incarnations didn’t call themselves the Doctor or have a police box Tardis. I’m still not a fan, but David’s performance and the writing at least made is a little easier to accept than Chibnall’s era ever did

@quantumvideoscz2052

4 ай бұрын

It's NEVER going to be a good idea. Or just "not terrible". It BREAKS canon. Too many things depend on the pre-Chibnall lore of how the Time Lords work.

I agree that this is no Heaven Sent…but like, *what is?* I adored this one, and I think it deserves to be compared to Midnight or Waters of Mars. It’s a story all about the Doctor and Donna as a pair and as individuals, and that’s really the kind of narrative I feel it needed to be to justify bringing the pair back. I enjoyed it *leagues* more than the Star Beast.

@jamesslater9098

4 ай бұрын

I don't feel like the midnight or waters of mars episode comparison is fair or accurate. It feels more like a father's day or oxygen type beat. A standout episode of a season that doesn't have the gravitas of a season finale or the prestige and artistry of stuff like heaven sent or midnight.

As someone who didn't watch Jodie at all and stopped at the end of Capaldi. I really loved these two episodes.

@victorfries8859

5 ай бұрын

Uhm. At the time i've stopped watching after Capaldi too, then, suddenly a couple of months ago i found myself trying to watch the first episodes of 13th... I literally had to sit down 3 times in three different days in order to finish the first episode. I had to stop watching because of boredoom. Then the episode with spiders same thing all over again, boredoom pushed me out of my seat 3 times. Three days to finish it. So difficult to stay sit and finish it in One go. I couldnt. Other than that i can only remember the episode with Rosa Parks. I think i've watched 4 or 5 episodes but i can't remember them all, they left no emotion in me. Zero. Not a great start overall... This has been my experience. I wonder if watching 13th's with a friend at my side would help me to get through it in one go... Dunno.

@mattwho81

5 ай бұрын

It was okay, but there was no danger to Jodie Doctor. No threat. Never could imagine her blowing up a planet.

@TheJadedJames

5 ай бұрын

I quit partway into Jodie’s first season and didn’t come back until her final run of episodes. Series 11 was painfully boring and it is already night and day as soon as we got to The Star Beast

@avocadothecat

5 ай бұрын

​@@BrickTastick0I watched broadchurch in preparation of S11, I know she can act. I was so hyped before it came out (I even made fanart)... then I watched the first episode and something felt odd. I shrugged it off and moved on... by episode 3 I kinda disliked the show? I watched the entire first season... I was dissapointed. I don't have high standards at all, heck I never had a problem with Moffat. But what Chibs did was just... character assasination - which is a feat cause we talk about someone changing personality every few years. I think Jodie got scammed out of being one of the best modern doctors so hard. She can act, she really can - but it feels like they forced her to be a borderline stupid psychopath... And it sadens me that people hate her for it. It's not her fault, she is just the actor. (I am just sharing ny thoughts, I agree with you btw)

@lja1993

4 ай бұрын

@@avocadothecat I don't quite agree with that - I personally don't think she was perfectly suited for the role. I could see her being another time lord or River Song-like returning character, but I dunno. She just never gave me the vibe of the Doctor. You could argue that it's the writing's fault, and you may be right. Impossible to know for sure without having seen some of her work written and produced by RTD or Moffat

I think they'll 100% mention the timeless child again with Ncuti's doctor, it's been confirmed in the synopses for the Church on Ruby Road that Ruby Sunday will be adopted and not know where she comes from originally, I bet you it'll be part of their story that this and the doctors past with the timeless child is what's goings to make them feel like they can relate to each other and their shared past might even be what brings them together in the beginning. Just some speculation on my part we'll just have to wait and see.

@jackdriffill2394

5 ай бұрын

No no no NO NO NO, is RTD seriously going to spend an entire season plus tidying up Chris Chibnalls mess

@Xavier.living.life.

5 ай бұрын

@@jackdriffill2394 Personally while I do have several issues with Chibnalls era, after thinking about it for a couple years now I don't have that many issues the idea of the timeless child itself, like it doesn't take away from the doctor as character at all, like fundamentally the doctor is still themselves as they always have been and always will be and I think the idea of the timeless child kinda adds to the doctor in a way, like I enjoy the message of it, at least how I read it and that's the message that it doesn't matter where you come from it's what you do with your life that really counts, it doesn't matter if you were born in a race of powerful people like the time lords or if you're just some person found in the middle of nowhere, regardless of what your origin may be you have the capability to do whatever you want with your life and be a good person and do amazing things. That's what I got out of it at least. I don't care much about how it may retcon the show, this a show that's just celebrated 60 years, it's had ton of retcons in the past and it will continue to have them in the future, that doesn't mean I'll enjoy the show any less because there's so much to get out of it that some small stupid bit of lore that will likely get retconned itself in the future couldn't possibly ruin it for me, I love doctor who even with all it's ups and downs, nothing is perfect and we should never expect it to be, just be happy and grateful with what we have and look positively to the future.

@Manel-dq2kb

5 ай бұрын

You know what? That actually sounds like a really cool idea for a dynamic between the Doctor and Ruby. If RTD is keeping the Timeless Child around, I really hope he does something interesting like that with it.

@Xavier.living.life.

5 ай бұрын

So according to early reviews after the press screening of The Church on Ruby Road it looks like I called it.

@amclark8225

4 ай бұрын

Right on the nose! Welp

I think I trust RTD to handle TTC tactfully, but with the Toymaker's whole Reality Warping thing, who's to say The Doctor will still be The Timeless Child after this Saturday?

@doctorskara

5 ай бұрын

RTD has stated he won't retcon it or unwrite it in any way.

Although I’m not a very big fan of the timeless child I’m very happy to see it included. Whether we like it or not it happened and the attempt to make good of a bad situation is something to be applauded in my opinion.

The Timeless Child can be redeemed if RTD changes it to not be the Doctor. The idea the Time Lords stole regeneration and claimed it for themselves is actually quite good. But, putting the Doctor at the center of the creation of the TimeLords is the big problem imo. Also, the synopsis for “The Church on Ruby Road” is all about the Doctor helping Ruby Sunday solve a mystery surrounding her own birth, so yeah, it’s gonna come up again.

I’m here after skipping the 13th doctor. I think these specials are totally meant to be a pallet cleanser, where we go back to formula and revisit the best doctor companion duo in the new who run. They’re dynamite and haven’t lost a step, and I love that we got an episode with JUST them, because at the end of the day, the most special thing is the chemistry these actors share

I really loved Wild Blue Yonder. Thought it was a great and fun episode. I am very hyped for The Giggle though

About 20 minutes in I realized... Oh my god, I'm watching a Doctor Who episode

@jonatanbergli5344

5 ай бұрын

Really? About the same time I realised that nothing had happened yet.

@AnythingMachine

5 ай бұрын

@@jonatanbergli5344 I didn't say it was an especially good one, just that it actually felt like a doctor who episode for the first time since twice upon a time

Look, I'm just happy they're trying to do something with the Timeless Child rather than just dropping it in there and acting like it doesn't matter. We don't know where this is going, they might explore it and realise that it wasn't the Doctor, or something like that. Just because they aren't ignoring it doesn't mean that it's always going to suck. RTD has handled huge canon altering things before, are we forgetting the Time War? Basically, I think that RTD's approach to the timeless child is too early to call.

This episode does have it flaws, but I liked the character dynamics and the scene with Wilf and stuff, and I think the not-things were great, they were usually pretty freaky (although not as much when they became better mimics and just looked normal but with fangs) and I liked the confusion they caused as doppelgangers, I also liked how at first I assumed the scenes where they first appear were just switching between two scenes which happened at different times and that when the Doctor said his arms were too long and that they're going to get hungry and stuff I thought he was just bored and was commenting on his appearance and how they might starve, but then in retrospect it was the not-thing genuinely just realizing this stuff It's sorta confusing how they're simultaneously very ignorant about everything about the universe and pulling lots of information from the minds of the Doctor and Donna but it sorta makes sense, like the disappearing tie is sorta believable as a mistake a creature might make who has never seen real life before

I understand where you're coming from with thinking 14 shouldn't have been numbered, but for me personally I feel the new number is justified by the clear character growth between 10 and 14 being apparent. 14 is far more outwardly sensitive, loving, and open than 10 ever was, and I think that's a reflection of all the experiences of 11, 12, and 13 being things 14 has gone through. Obviously 10 and 14 are very similar, it's still David Tennant doing his take on the Doctor after all, but the characterisation is subtly, yet meaningfully, different in a way that wouldn't make sense if this was 10. That's not meant as a criticism of 10 btw, I think his more hostile and closed off demeanour fits perfectly given he's still in the aftermath of the Time War and all that. Not as affected and damaged as 9 of course, but not far off either. This is unrelated to the video, but it's actually really interesting how each subsequent incarnation of the post-2005 era has become gradually less and less guarded as the Doctor gets more and more distance from the Time War. Even 12, while on the surface being more guarded than 11 with his Capaldi grumpyness and general attitude, was actually overall more emotionally sensitive in dialogue ("Do you think that I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?") and of course 12 was the one who shared a 24-year-long night with River, and then there's everything with Missy in series 10 but this comment is long enough already lol. There's a clear evolution of sensitivity (even if shown subtly) with each new incarnation since 9.

Definitely have enjoyed the last two episodes throughly despite some of their short comings. I can’t help but feel that this doesn’t feel as celebratory as the 50th did? I guess because the 50th was a monumental point in Who’s history with it hitting 50 years old and I guess 60 isn’t as important of a milestone and I guess 75 is the next big one. That being said I love everything that has been done with these two episodes I just feel that perhaps there should be more of a feeling of celebrating doctor who as a whole rather than the RTD era? I really didn’t like the timeless children arch and if they insist on keeping it at the very least I hope RTD makes it into something interesting. Looking forward to the final episode the giggle! I think once that is out having an overall opinion of the decisions made will become a lot clearer. Loved the video as always and please keep up the fantastic work guys!!

@Picilishous

5 ай бұрын

I think it's not as special because it's Rtd's first few episodes back, so he's still getting his footholds trying to figure out the doctor who's a very different person now. With the 50th anniversary Moffatt was already a veteran doctor who writer and had been moulding the doctor through his run, so he already had his footholds on how to write doctor who proper.

@ayan5416

5 ай бұрын

It feels more like a special celebrating RTD itself and I think that by 75th most of them will be dead or to old. I think this is the last time we will see Tennant. Nobody wants Judy. Capaldi said he wont return But i think he will if Its somenthing very special but by 75 he will be too old

This episode could never have worked with Ncuti's doctor. It needed to be Tennant and Donna, because of their bond and their unique experiences together. Because it hinged upon the Doctor knowing Donna, but also Donna knowing the Doctor. You couldn't have just plopped any companion in this one with any Doctor. They explained in the episode itself why it had to be these two.

@brewster_4

5 ай бұрын

I disagree. If they'd chosen this to be a later episode in Ncuti's first season, Ruby and 15 would've already had that bond, and known each other

@Snuzzled

5 ай бұрын

@@brewster_4 Not as deep, though. Donna and the Doctor have been through a lot, plus she was literally in his head. I am speaking from the perspective of someone who initially thought bringing back Tennant was a cheap ratings trick, to try to bring back the fans who disliked Thirteen, but I really don't think this particular episode would have worked nearly as well with any other Doctor and any other companion. It would have needed a ton of changes and in the end would have been a weaker story for it

@brewster_4

5 ай бұрын

@@Snuzzled A deep connection would all be in how they're set up though. If episode 5 of season 1 is a big emotional/dynamic change for the Doctor and Ruby like Dalek or Kill the Moon this could've been a good follow up. The only time when the Doctor and Donna's connection every really comes into play is during the Flux reference which if you cut you lose nothing to the plot or overall theme of the story. This story easily could've had 9/Rose, 11/Amy 12/Clara 13/Yaz 7/Ace 4/Sarah etc

@Snuzzled

5 ай бұрын

@@brewster_4 I disagree, there are plenty of times it comes up. Plus, the Doctor knowing his own face well comes up too iirc. 10/Rose yes, 12/Clara maybe, 11/Amy maybe, the others? Nah. It wouldn't have been the same story.

I think RTD has been very wise in making this feel more like a mini-series. It's easy to forget how many people stopped watching at the 10/11th doctor era and I think if he had gone full blown special it could have put people off. Especially, the kind of special which more hard core fans would enjoy. Instead, what he's done is given people a flavour of what's to come so they stick around even when 14 regenerates! If these had felt too "special" the likelihood is people would stop watching once David leaves again. RTD is laying foundations and I think it's really promising... Everything will climax at the regeneration hopefully so it's about what's to come rather than what's been before it

The only way I'd be happy to see the Timeless Child storyline come back would be if 15 comes to terms with it and resolves the plot thread. "It doesn't matter where we come from, only what we choose to do now" something along those lines please Russell I beg you

Good writers don't just throw away porly writen story beats, they adapt them into something better. The lazy option would be to not mention the timeless child, i didn't like the twist either but that more has to do with execution and not the concept.

I hate the Timeless Child story but imo I respect Davies for not just ignoring it. That would be such an easy way out as opposed to trying to turn that plot point into something good. Personally I'm still hoping he finds a way to make the Timeless Child the Master instead as I think that would actually create great drama between the doctors guilt that his origin is in the experimentation of his old friend and a new reason for the master to really be involved in future stories.

@Snuzzled

5 ай бұрын

Yeah I think that's the only way they could make it work, if they don't want to just make it that the Master is outright lying (which I think they should do).

completely agree, these just felt like 3 episodes in a series run rather than a 3 part thriller, which really has taken away the whole grandeur of it being an ANNIVERSARY *SPECIAL*. Still, happy we got to see the GOAT doctor back even if this anniversary was lacklustre to say the least.

For as much as I hate the timeless child and flux stuff, I’m glad RTD isn’t immediately retconning it because it shows his integrity as a writer. He isn’t immediately erasing the work of a fellow writer.

I really enjoyed this as it made the most of David and Catherine being back - to have an episode purely focused on them and the actors' performances was great.

"Don't mention it again" he made the timeless child a defining part of 15 and ruby's relationship and im so here for it. i used to be super up-in-arms over the tc reveal too, but honestly it really doesnt do much for affecting the mythos other than give more potential for character drama. it undercuts a bit of the importance of things like the first doctor, but honestly it makes so little negative impact on the show that its really not worth bitching about constantly.

@mono90286

5 ай бұрын

It also completely undercuts 11's massive arc where they contended that it would be his last regeneration.

I completely see where you’re coming from on it not being that special, but I’m kind of okay with that. What’s special to me is we’re steadying the ship with some solid Doctor Who to build a foundation for the future on. It’s not 10 and Donna’s place to be some outlandish monument between 13 and 15, but it is to resolve, remind us of why they were so great and usher Ncuti in gracefully. If anything, it’s refreshing for it not to be a repeat of the 50th. Fingers crossed we get a 70th and they can go bombastic again if they want.

I thought we'd all agreed that Power of the Doctor took the Old Who stuff. Weren't people saying that it'd be weird to have the 60th do Old Who stuff right after PotD? I'm fine with this as is. I don't need another 50th. We don't need grandiose call backs when we got it two episodes ago. They're the 60th anniversary, hence David's face being back, that's the special. Why did the Doctor regenerate back into David?

As someone who hated the timeless child, I very much disagree in you just wanting it to be ignored. Seeing good writers use unpopular story lines to prop up as key things of future story lines into fan favourites is a much better use of a plot than just leaving it by the wayside. Turning it from "this was awful" to "it was awful but it led into something great" It's been done to such great effect in many other series and I think it was a really good decision here.

"another genuinely good who episode for the first time in years" is a great way to describe this episode. these specials have been a good palate cleanser after chibnall, and I'm excited to see the next series with Ncuti

I feel like the entire cold open and "mavity" are enough to disqualify it from being an all-time great. But it was definitely good.

@FullFatVideos

5 ай бұрын

Well said! That was an absolute waste of time. Mavity isn’t really funny enough to justify it, and the coffee spill from last week would have segued nicely into the ship crash

I said to a friend after this episode that it almost felt like RTD trying to write his own Moffat-esque story. I find it interesting that this episode featured the doctor and the companion being spun all the way around by a turning wall, something that Moffat wrote in the very first thing he ever wrote for Who (the curse of fatal death parody sketch).

I actually really like that Russell talked about both the timeless child and flux. They are things that happened in canon, and were left unresolved, and honestly? They have a lot of potential going forward, and I enjoyed the implications of the arc. It would kind of suck if fugitive, division, the fob watch, tecteun, and the timeless child were just ignored forever.

God I do hope that TTC gets scrapped at the end of the day, it is absolutely character-demolishing, and it's not like we never had retcons. I just don't see why hang onto a story bit that the overwhelming majority of the fandom disliked simply for the sake of holding onto it.

@TheGeorgeD13

5 ай бұрын

Because RTD likes it. He’s said so himself. It makes it truly Doctor WHO?

Missed opportunity for the Blue Yonder not to make a great simpsons reference "Huh Issac Newton," - Tenth Doctor "I'm not actually Sir Issac Newton I'm just assuming his form,"

I wouldn't compare this to Midnight. For me, this was more a Waters of Mars.

I really like what RTD did with the Timeless Child! The worst thing he could have done would be to retcon it away just because it was highly divisive. That sort of thing just gives you Rise of Skywalker and pleases no one! By focusing on the Doctor's emotions about not knowing his own origins rather than the specific details, RTD showed respect to Chibnal by keeping everything canon, but without drawing attention to the unpopular aspects of that story. It was superb writing that really showed RTD's strengths of character focused writing.

@loganscott814

5 ай бұрын

Didn't the Star Wars sequels ignore the chosen one thing?

@marionbaggins

5 ай бұрын

@@loganscott814Yep.

I didn't think you were naïve enough to think they would retcon the timeless child yet. For a retcon, it would have to be taken off the air and let rest for a few years/decades until the BBC just fucking stopped. Of course as long as the people in charge are the same they would double, triple, quadruple, octuple down. They would rather destroy everything doctor who ever stood for than to step a single centimeter back.

Even though I hate the flux storyline, I was a bit thankful that the doctor actually recognized that they destroyed half a universe!!!! during Chibnall it was like it never mattered at all, everyone just kept moving normally like psycopaths

To be fair, at this point, The Doctor still believes that The Timeless Child story is completely correct, but nothing has confirmed it in a way that means it 100% is fact. I still think it could be written away as a plan from The Master to try and trick The Doctor into joining him or something to that effect. Flux really tries to hammer it in, but Tecteun could not be what she seems, considering it's a complete retcon of the origin story of the Time Lords that we all knew for nearly 60 years, I think it's possible that she was in league with The Master or, possibly a future incarnation of the Master? My point is they have options for removing it from the canon, because it seems most viewers don't like the arc (myself included). But, I don't have as much of an issue here because at this point in The Doctor's story, they believe that they are The Timeless Child, but also because this scene focuses more on the emotional toll the Flux had on The Doctor that we should have seen from 13 in that season. This one episode had more of a reaction to the events of The Flux from from The Doctor than the entire series where it was the central concern. I don't like the Timeless Child arc either, and I didn't like seeing it be doubled down upon here, but it is currently canon, and discussing it here did make sense in the context of the episode.

I agree about a more focused story but I wouldn’t trade what we have with these first two episodes for it. In a perfect world we would get a 2 parter with the toy maker

@FullFatVideos

5 ай бұрын

only one episode of the toymaker is a shame, but maybe he could be the continuing big bad of s14 / s1!

@unchainedfilms1328

5 ай бұрын

@@FullFatVideos maybe if the leaks are true and we have a few returning characters from these specials.

Thank you so much for this video, this echoes my sentiments entirely in a much better way than I ever could! I think in years to come people will go back to these episodes and revaluate them without the context of getting to the end of a lacklustre 13th Doctor run and just getting some good Who again. I can't believe it but I think the 50th might have been a better anniversary special then any of these have been so far. Don't get me wrong I've enjoyed them a great deal but are they really 60th anniversary specials??

@FullFatVideos

5 ай бұрын

No problem! Yeah theyre been a vast improvement on the preceeding era so its been a relief and a positive feeling, but these eps feel like they wouldn't stand out in a full series

@robbiemartin9312

5 ай бұрын

​@@FullFatVideos I Dissagree that this episode wouldn't of stood out in previous seasons, imo this is top tier Doctor Who

I hated Timeless Child and Flux stuff but i didnt care because everything in this episode was done well. Those scenes really just made me feel mystery and depth to the character of the doctor. Thats the effect of how it was written. And the actual episode was the best Doctor Who has been since probably Heaven Sent.

You’re right, this is no Heaven Sent or Midnight. This is the TV show’s equivalent of Scherzo. Both are two handers with the Doctor and his companion being pushed to their limits. Both open with the TARDIS abandoning our characters in a location outside our regular universe. And both feature a monster that begins to take corporeal form thanks to the presence of the protagonists, leading to freaky body horror antics.

@ZidaneWarner

5 ай бұрын

I was thinking the same thing

I really enjoyed this episode! It felt like I was back in 6th grade watching Dr Who with my family. But I totally agree about your criticism. I wish they would do away with the timeless child and made these specials more impactful as one interconnected story.

Hahahaha that intro is fantastic!

People who thought Timeless Child was easily being retconned was wishing too much

Despite hating the Timeless Child, I wasn’t as put off by RTD bringing it back as I would’ve expected. Since I didn’t enjoy the Star Beast, this was (for me) the first decent Doctor Who episode in a while, which softened the blow a bit, & I have faith in RTD to do something with it that won’t undermine the point of the character like the original idea did.

Bad plots/concepts can always be salvaged if the writing behind them is treated with the proper gravitas or even an ounce of care. The fact that these things are leaving an impact and putting doubt into the doctors head, and just some of the raw emotion coming from it… Idk. I get not enjoying concepts, but clearly RTD sees SOMETHING in it. I think hoping he just discards it from here on is naive. I see no harm in letting him run with it just to see where it could go in capable hands.

Speaking of the half human thing, I remember Steven Moffat once said there’s nothing in the show that contradicts the Doctor being half human. Yet the metacrisis Doctor clearly does exactly that when he discovers he’s part human and is shocked/disgusted by it.

@Gemma-Majoran

5 ай бұрын

surely hes now MORE human

Great review, one of the better ones I've seen from this episode. It's all about emotional impact, and I don't think this episode will be considered as a huge emotional wallop, certainly not as a tribute for 60 years of a beloved TV show! I think many of us were hoping that the Toymaker would form a strong narrative link between the 3 specials, even if he was only the principal villain at the end. It would have been insane to have the Meep and Toymaker in a single episode, a bit like those Batman films.

As someone who is a casual who watcher I do wish it was a 3 parter single story rather than 3 independent stories. That said I actually liked this episode leaps over the last one. It felt far more interesting and I enjoyed the moment when the doctor broke after talking with not Donna. I really resonated with that as someone who doesn't know where they are going or what they are doing quite yet and the feeling of lost and broken was palpable

Even if timeless child gets retconned, the doctor is still unsure of their past and doesnt know where theyre from for sure. So i dont really mind it

People who say it’s their favorite episode is allowed to have that opinion I like it a lot not my favorite episode ever but really good just saying that it’s not pre mature

The title sequence was the best it’s even been

@FullFatVideos

5 ай бұрын

Disagree, the peak is the 2005-2010 one. There’s so much energy and speed and the vortex effects haven’t aged a day. Plus it has the best theme

i think this "60th anniversary special" was more so a "RTD Era special", or even "New-Who season 4 15th anniversary special" from the concept

Parts of the last two episodes does make me wonder if the original plan was for David and Catherine to come back for a full series but something changed along the way.

@LittleBlondeDud3

5 ай бұрын

I dunno - I have a feeling they alway intended it to be three episodes but they're trying to show people who have come back to New Who for David and Catherine that the quality is back and consistent so they'll hopefully stick around when Ncuti comes in.

@FullFatVideos

5 ай бұрын

I imagine theyre too expensive to bring back on to the show for too long - but it just begs the question why position this as essentially the first two episodes of a full run? Even 6 episodes would have worked more like a series. You could have had two more standalone adventures and a two part toymaker finale

@Nightmarechs75

5 ай бұрын

@@FullFatVideos Its like schedules didn't line up and then it was too late to properly rewrite all three so they took the first and last episodes and picked their favorite from in-between. Overall liking the episodes and outside of a big surprise this week, it feels like they were planning for something else.

@TheJadedJames

5 ай бұрын

I highly doubt there was ever a plan to have them back for a full year. They are back because 1 - It is a gambit to bring back old fans 2 - They don’t an anniversary special to center a brand new Doctor/companion. This is the time for nostalgia. The reason these specials play more like a speed run of a normal Doctor Who episode than one big story is probably just because that’s what Davies felt like writing

FORESHADOWING: The Doctor and Donna arrive to meet Sir Isaac Newton and accidentally impact the course of history forever with the word “Mavity”. At the end of the episode, the Doctor realises he has left something very dangerous behind at the edge of the universe - superstition. How too will this evolve and alter the course of the universe?

I don’t think RTD will ever use the Timeless Child story again… I also hope he doesn’t, but at the same time I LOVED RTD’s writing and DT’s performance regarding it, and that really made me not mind it’s arc. Partly also because he didn’t mention the space Jesus Time Lord genetic code (the bit I particularly didn’t like) and more made it about the Doctor - how he feels. He’s kind of an orphan and we’re actually seeing how it impacts him. It was a great performance and a great piece of writing from RTD to spin the narrative into something more interesting

I liked 14 talking about 13’s trauma. Made me wish that Chibs had got on a discord call with RTD and Moffat and they helped him edit his scripts

Im honestly on the boat of that The Timeless Child plotline needs to be talked more in the show. Look, we have 2 paths: A) Do nothing and leave that as a bad thing that owns bad memories B) Get the plotline actually developed and get a good whole thing (because they reeeeeally know what we like and don't about that thing at this point, so they'll do it well most probably)

I agree this episode felt like 14 and Donna had a whole season and we just gotta see a random episode out of it, but 14 still doesn't feel any different than 10, and yeah the timeless child is one of the dumbest things in my opinion...over all I liked the episode just wish that that time we got with 14 explored who he is more! Excited for next week!

I think they wanted to play it safe. Making an amazing episode would be great, but will vastly exceed expectations, which isn't great for a show that's only just started making good episodes again as people would expect more episodes like that. I'm not disagreeing with you, I simply am just trying to understand why they would do this.

Of course RTD made The Timeless Child canon. The Doctor has to have something to angst over.

@FullFatVideos

3 ай бұрын

Yeah; seems like he couldn’t resist

RTD didn’t canonize the Timeless Child, Chris Chibnall did.

I can understand the desire for a grander scale. I think the episode is really fun but it's absolutely more of a standard episode than a full on special. It kinda feels like higher ups wanted a 3 parter, but RTD really only had enough for two parts planned out (The giggle and the star beast). So they threw in this adventure in the middle to justify the timeskip and introduce the Flux as it's kinda important for The Giggle. But it's not nearly as grand as either of the other parts

I felt it was a return to form. One that allowed me to relax a little.

I thought this episode was way better than the first one. I definitely think I'll end up rewatching this episode as the years go by, but the first one just didn't grip me as much and I don't think I'll end up rewatching it.

Absolutely shocked at the negative reviews coming out on this fantastic episode. It makes me wonder a bit if people who can’t enjoy such a quintessential episode even like Doctor Who.

Well now we know why he's the 14th dr. He's got a whole life ahead of him as a Nobel

Something which certain people need to understand is that Doctor Who (at least the TV show) does not and never will decanonise and that's just a fact. Even though it's never mentioned, The Doctor is also still technically half Human as much as he is a regular Time Lord or the Timeless Child. I would rather it and the flux be acknowledged in the way it has (and thereby at least making it slightly more worthwhile in the process) instead of being thrown away out of pure spite, something which Chibnall already did in the very same series that fully introduced the Timeless Child by undoing the Moffat Era's two greatest changes to the status quo in The Master's redemption and Gallifrey's destruction.

@FullFatVideos

4 ай бұрын

They defo decanonised the half human thing

I loved this episode but I understand where your coming from. Whilst I also hate the Timeless Child being canonised, I can appreciate Russell trying to salvage what he can from it to try and further character development for The Doctor. Whilst am loving this stuff, I do see what you mean about how this should have been a separate thing and there should have been something else for the specials. Still, feel bad about complaining because compared to last 6 years, this is leagues above what we’ve had - I never thought we’d see something this good in Doctor Who again, without a total reboot.

Thanks!

@FullFatVideos

Ай бұрын

Thank YOU

Honestly this episode has restored my faith in RTD I look forward to ncuti.

RTD's regular episodes are all like a special to me

As you point out in this video with the half-human thing, RTD is clearly willing to undo bad retcons, but I think the key difference with the Timeless Child is that RTD is good friends with Chibnaill in real life. RTD is a very smart writer, he probably knows in private that the Timeless Child retcon should be undone, but he understandably wants to stand by his longtime friend. Yes you can argue bringing Tennant back already undermines Chibnaill, but it's one thing to bring back a fan favourite actor, and it's a whole other thing to explicitly contradict or undo something set up by Chibnaill. I guarantee the half-human thing wouldn't have been removed from canon if RTD was personal friends with whoever wrote the TV Movie.

@artyb27

5 ай бұрын

I'm curious about how you managed to misspell "Chibnall" three times. Still a very good (though kinda frustrating) point though of course.

RTD ignored the half-human plot point AND the Shalka Doctor out of pettiness!

I enjoyed this episode but it wouldve been cool that if it was 3 part thing with the toymaker it wouldve been cooler and feel more like a special event. Also i actually sorta liked the flux coming back but the timeless child is something i want to be forgotten or at the very least just do some damage control to try to make the damage of that lessened in the future but it shouldnt be the focus of the story.

This was a very good story and i enjoyed it but i didn't feel like an anniversary special. However i'm waiting on The Giggle to see where this all goes and how this all fits in

To be fair, the half human on my mother’s side thing was one line of dialogue in a movie a lot of people didn’t watch. Thats different than a multi episode arc lol

I know you said you would have preferred a contiguous 3-parter but, in those, the second episode is usually the one that gets lost in the sauce - the trough before the peak. Making the second episode an intense standalone adventure though, great move by RTD. It may not be part of a larger story, but I think its impact was greater than your typical 2/3 episode. WBY works because its about how well D + D know each other and themselves and how much they trust their relationship, which is why I don't think it would've hit as well as a Ncuti episode unless it was maaaybe at the mid point of a second season with Ruby - I agree it doesn't necessarily feel like 'special' material, but it WAS a fantastic, chilling, classic, streamlined DW episode. That's WAY more than I can say for POTD, which was trying so hard to be a special that it just turned into an Avengers film. And tbh I never really liked the 50th that much, felt kind of bloated for its runtime, self important and cringe in parts. I think the Giggle will truly feel like a special with the Celestial Toymaker returning - an amazing nod to one of the first great DW villains that will be a proper story and not just a Dalek/Cybermen/every-Doctor-ever clusterfuck.

(You know what I didn’t) You’re absolutely right, we do 😂

the trailers placed so much emphasis on the question of why 10s face is back and then 14 literally just says "does it matter?" and then they go fuckity bye on random adventure. this was still a w episode tho

I didn’t watch any of Jodie’s run, I stopped about halfway through Capaldi’s, and tbh these 2 episodes just haven’t hit the same for me, I think Wild Blue Yonder was definitely a step up, but I can’t see myself ever rewatching it. They shouldn’t have brought Donna back, the ending to her plot line was already satisfying, and these 3 episodes would have been much stronger with the Doctor trying to figure out who he is on his own, plus it gives the writers more freedom to tell 3 independent stories. So much of the little time we have with Tennant has just been spent trying to justify why they’re both back and where everyone’s been. It feels like fanfiction

Where is the giggle review :( also I liked the first two specials simply because after the the non stop seriousness of chibnall (i watched the required eps at 2x speed) we needed a palette cleanser.. these did a phenomenal job and allowed me to enjoy the giggle to the point that i was really emotionally invested in the story.. also.. you have to accept the timeless child.. its happened, i'm sorry, i'm really sorry... but its a thing.. i hate it to, but we have to accept it and the possibility it could lead to some great storylines with the other universe

I actually like that he owns the Timeless Child here, and I’m not a fan of it either. But I don’t think you should just simply undo plot points you don’t think worked, look at the Rise of Skywalker and what a jumbled mess that was, trying to please people who didn’t like the turns The Last Jedi took. Far better to do an Avengers Endgame, which genuinely took us back to Thor: The Dark World. That said, now we’ve had The Giggle and what looks to me like a soft reboot, I will be perfectly happy if the Timeless Child never comes up again.

I mean he still could change the timeless child. Maybe it gets delved into and they find out it’s someone else and the master lied or something

Disagree, this episode needed companions who knew each other and could help each other with the pain. Works very well in a trilogy of DoctorDonna episodes of Reunion, Reconciliation and .... spoilers sweetie. Flux was the best of the three Chibnall series, and the doctor ignoring the trauma of that would be jarring. However agree with your overall point, a welcome return to form as a B grade episode.

P.s.- I agree I didn't like the writing or the last few seasons. Which is sad, because it's not the fault of the actors, but the writing. But this has come up before, my uncle could remember not liking the 90's TV special movie and too his dad's side about how the time war was ridiculous and robbed the show of a fun future with other time lords. People hated stuff the happend on who before, we will grow adapt and accept the new stuff soon enough

idk galifrey stealing a child and metaphorically ripping it's heart out feels kind of bad

We already had an IP where a new piece of media just declared everything in the last piece wasn't actually true and that was Star Wars with The Rise of Skywalker retconning The Last Jedi, and it is considered to be the worst Star Wars movie ever for it. No. RTD is right to work with and continue the Timeless Child Arc... with the caveat that he never actually gives an answer to the question of where they came from beyond the portal.