USA header manufacturers roughed him up over this video but he still published it. RH the MVP.

@aXBlackDeathXa

4 жыл бұрын

@@dj4monie I think he's joking (look at Rich's face).

@twisted2291

4 жыл бұрын

If you watch the N2O intercooling video. You will find out why he got messed up. But the comment is funny.

@kb9thp

4 жыл бұрын

@@twisted2291 I will have to search for the video and check it out!

@adzz8012

4 жыл бұрын

Username checks out 😂

@maxgunna7117

3 жыл бұрын

lol im dead

All the brand name header manufacturers are going “dude shut the hell up”

@yourhucklebearer9451

4 жыл бұрын

Where does one find the corona headers? CHI-NUHH

@Prestiged_peck

3 жыл бұрын

The value of expensive headers isn't really in a power difference, it's in the quality of materials an the fact that they may last 30 years, while these ebay headers will rust through in 5 years. Also the big name headers are gonna look ways better and often come coated

@chadkimmel8957

3 жыл бұрын

Were you in a fight?

@limabravo6065

3 жыл бұрын

@@Prestiged_peck / look man I’m all for buying American but these companies need to understand that they are cutting their own throats with their prices. In the header and intake manifold markets this is most pronounced. Things aren’t the way they were 15-20 years ago when these chi-com copies started showing up on eBay, and you had a 50-50 chance of them actually fitting or not. In a lot of cases the copies are just about as good. A set of stainless lt headers with Y pipe for a 3rd gen Camaro is about $200 while the nearest American variant is over a $1000. And yes the fit is going to be better on the US set but people will deal with a few headaches with that big a price difference. I know companies have to recoup R&d costs, pay employees etc... but they need to be competitive or these Chinese companies “employing” 10 year olds are eventually going to either shut them out or force them offshore. I’m not saying that they shouldn’t offer a $1500 set of headers but come out with a $2-300 budget set and give the people buying the copies another option.

@Prestiged_peck

3 жыл бұрын

@@limabravo6065 they really should, like for me if imma pay $1500 for a set I'll build myself some, motion makes a good flange for like $20 a side, get some elbows and J's and start tiggin

Love it Richard, I know it's tedious, but this style of testing helps us all learn

@mrmidnight32

4 жыл бұрын

Matt Gruizinga it also massively educated the customer base which makes companies change their tactics and actually give us better product and results. Weeds out the trash products and gives us a better market.

@buiItnotbought

4 жыл бұрын

Richard's doing gods work

@zadokmotorfreight2423

3 жыл бұрын

You got that right!! I've learned more about engines in the last few weeks since finding Richard than I did in the 41 years prior haha!

@cobaltsslsj5891

Жыл бұрын

@@mrmidnight32 Brand name headers cost way to much - They can charge way less then maybe there sales will increase

First rule about fight club, you don’t talk about fight club.

@Candybuiltsi

4 жыл бұрын

Lucky Goose 😂😂😂fr

@e-racer4673

4 жыл бұрын

Looks like you were broadcasting when you should have been tuning in..

@ls87gbody

4 жыл бұрын

Lmao

@malcommooney8086

3 жыл бұрын

right on

eBay hard parts have gotten a hell of a lot better and now everyone realizes they've been getting ripped off for parts that have no moving parts you should do a video on intercoolers talk about getting ripped off

I had an idea the power levels were not gonna be much different vs eBay headers and name brand but my personal experience is the name brand exhaust last longer and hardly ever have fitment issues. The fitment issues on cheap headers can be a nightmare so that alone makes me pay the extra money to get the more expensive ones. Great video

Thank you!!! These videos are gonna eliminate so many annoying threads on ls1tech😂🤣

@carguy6636

3 жыл бұрын

Lmfaoo so true

Im liking this to engine masters. You have more time to explain the information.

@Terryray123

4 жыл бұрын

@@dj4monie i love to watch dumb people get there doors blown off.

@jason156

2 жыл бұрын

These videos seem to pack a bit more information, but a little less humor.

The biggest thing I learned is anything naturally aspirated under 550HP doesn't need dual 3" exhaust. The 2.5" didn't trade anything up top and gained torque down low over the 3".

@crank1422

10 ай бұрын

Good point. I also noticed that all of the testing takes place above 3500 rpm. So for a street car not in the rpm nosebleed section, you may be able to do pretty well with just a good set of manifolds.

You just saved me a lot of headaches and a ton of money with these tests

Surprising how well the factory cast manifolds perform

@johnparrish9215

4 жыл бұрын

I was rather shocked by this also and since I'm planning on an LS/F150 swap, I might not do headers at all.

@blow0me

4 жыл бұрын

@@johnparrish9215 Plus OEM cast manifolds always lend themselves to turbos lol. It'd be interesting to do a stock manifold test, from the various cast items, to LS7 etc.

@YZFoFittie

4 жыл бұрын

Just change to better bolts before they start snapping off...

@StormedNorm

4 жыл бұрын

I have used stock exhaust manifolds on a few builds. I just clean the insides up a bit and polish them.

@1kings1918

4 жыл бұрын

I agree the factor manifold performs well. I think this may be the same factory manifold that is used on the 5.3, 6.0, etc. That means it is meant to flow much more than the 4.8L. Because on the 4.8 with a high flow head, cam, etc., it just doesn't seem like much restriction from the factory manifold, even with the high flow head and cam.

We install headers almost daily & we also have a dyno jet. You are correct on the power output is equal. When a customer comes in with ebay headers we charge a extra 2 hours on the install ($220) because THEY NEVER FIT!!! We have to reem out flange holes on ebay headers all the time. God forbid a customer brings in a long tube + y-pipe ebay combo because the y pipe always needs a ton of persuasion to align which more often than not requires cutting and welding. Moral of this story, what you save on buy ebay headers is spent on installation so it winds up costing the same. I say buy name brand because in that case you get customer service from the manufacture and a real warranty not a Wuhan Warranty!

@wydopnthrtl

3 жыл бұрын

This is solid advise! Few people ever look at the whole of a job.

@Steve-O_27

2 ай бұрын

I was just going to say this about fitment and buying cheap headers. This why I went with kooks 1-7/8" on my 08 Vette. I want it all to fit right and I don't want them to hang low like all the cheap ones do

Hi Richard 👋...great unbiased tests!...we need more of this!

I just installed DNA long tube headers, mid pipe with y pipe assembly on my 2009 RAM...overall pretty impressive and their customer service even in China has responded to all my requests and or issues....I would 100% recommend the DNA long tube headers...and oh yah they are pretty loud and mean sounding with my Flowmaster super 10 ....👍

You get in a fight with a slippery wrench? ;) LOL.... HERES TO A HAPPY NEW YEAR Richard ! !

I don't doubt performance is similar eBay vs name brand, fitment and longevity is usually the issue

@jeepwk6.5L

4 жыл бұрын

Colin1337 yeah my eBay headers rusted up super quick for being stainless. But they did fit and work good

@Superado2006

4 жыл бұрын

And you don't mind banging up a set of $200 headers compared to a set that cost $500

@jeepwk6.5L

4 жыл бұрын

Superado2006 you must be an LS guy cuz $500 is eBay headers for mopar haha

@Superado2006

4 жыл бұрын

@@jeepwk6.5LUh... this is a video on LS headers... so yep.

@jeepwk6.5L

4 жыл бұрын

Superado2006 lol

If DNA isn't supplying you with the stuff you need for these videos, they need to because you probably just sold over 100 long tubes from them. Count me as 2.

@richardholdener1727

4 жыл бұрын

IKR

@rayneblack6107

4 жыл бұрын

Makes me feel lot better about the DNA headers (JBA clones for Tacoma) I'm getting ready to install on 4rnr

@jeffman3

4 жыл бұрын

I'm running a DNA header on a Geo Tracker of all things. Can confirm it is identical to the supposedly "USA made" option from LROR.

@dhertz8163

4 жыл бұрын

I put the same DNA headers on my 15 SS camaro I like them they are nice for the price but if I had the $1200 for Kooks I would've bought them. Great vid

@motorsports601

4 жыл бұрын

Ive bought for fbodys before nice to have data now thanks Richard

Great video! Yesterday i was looking for a test like this, im about to put some headers on a BBC in my truck, perfect timing. You also cleared up the misinformation ive read about where power gains are at in rpm range with shorty's vs long tubes. Thanks again! Edit to add...i agree with others, this testing does help us all a lot. Its hard to sift through all the conflicting info on the internet. Its great to see an actual test.

Thank you so much for proven results! About to build my first LS, and all these videos save me money, and show real world gains and fixes.

Richard, can't thank you enough for the videos you put out!

Great test I love how much info you pack in a short video

Very cool to see the differences from each type of header. Id like to see it one step further with other bolt on mods. Such as cai, tb, and aftermarket intakes. Nice work regardless!

@crepesaresupreme4075

11 ай бұрын

I’ve wanted to see him run all the cai brands just for fun

Really glad to see this. I used DNA headers in the past and i always wondered how much power i was leaving on the table. Fwiw i ran them for ~3 years and i sold the car with them on. I didnt have any leaks or visible cracks when it left. Disclaimer the car only saw about 10k miles on the ebay headers but a ton of heat cycles due to short trips but got frequent WOT pulls. This was on a stock cammed motor with aftermarket intake and full exhaust. Nothing special. Fitment was good enough, a little closer to block vs stock but didnt cause any issue. I would buy them again for another budget NA build. 😊

Great test. But the difference isn't in performance between the cheap headers... The issue is the construction and durability

@cobaltsslsj5891

Жыл бұрын

Ebay headers just as good hands down

@The_Fat_Turtle

Жыл бұрын

@@cobaltsslsj5891 No, they are made with inferior metals, not machined to high tolerances so expect warping, rusting and leaks earlier than a quality set. They make roughly the same power, so if your project is only expected to live 2-3 years it's a great header. If you want to keep your vehicle for many years, buy the quality ones that will last.

@cobaltsslsj5891

Жыл бұрын

@@The_Fat_Turtle when i can buy 3 sets compared to high $$$$$$$ ones it's a win win . the quality of ebay is great , i bought a set for my Cobalt SS and it was just as good as the ZZP in every way but $400 cheaper - putting a set on my LS swapped S10 and they are great

Really cool to see on the 3 setups. Keep it up Richard!

Awesome video! Exactly the straight forward analysis I was looking for

Liked it just based off the opening pic. Keep up the great work Richard, some GREAT videos lately!

Happy New Year, Richard. Thanks for making great content with information that's easily understood. I really appreciate it.

Yep, I've ran the inexpensive headers on my vehicles for years. MUCH appreciate your sharing and work on this video, backs up what I've always said and felt, and I certainly will use this to share! When you look at the price difference, troubles or longetivity isnt much a problem to me, when I can buy multiple inexpensive sets vs just the one

@cobaltsslsj5891

Жыл бұрын

You my friend took the words right out of my mouth - LOL

That was a great test!!! I just bought some E-bay headers for my 6.0 project in my f-body. This was so relieving to know I made a good choice!

@buiItnotbought

4 жыл бұрын

@@dj4monie haha nobody builds their own anymore

Thanks for the hard work in your study, those of us without your experience and resources truly appreciate the education you provide, party on..

I bought some headers for 300$ seen the unbranded same design! For 109$.. on eBay just doesn't have the sexy name plate on it like mine.. I've been needing this video basically so I can sleep better.

These videos are so awesome, I have become addicted to them.

Awesome testing! Thanks for your hard work. Love your channel. 👍 Keep it up.

Richard it appears that you had or are having a medical condition and your fan base hopes that you are feeling better in the New Year. Mad Respect

@richardholdener1727

4 жыл бұрын

if by medical condition you mean falling on my face-then yes!

I’m still amazed with those 4.8s. Great numbers and the revs just keep climbing

Thanks for the test and Happy New Year! 💥✌️

Great test, keep this up and the big manufacturers are gonna give you free stuff to test anymore 😎

Excellent work sir!!

@MadCarTK

3 жыл бұрын

What the? Get back to your garage and make more videos!

@Fackler91

2 жыл бұрын

Hope to see some videos from you. Miss the content and your face

EXCELLENT TEST!!! Although my ebay headers have 3" collector.... lol

@jsb1561

4 жыл бұрын

Lol mine too and fit great.

I love tests like this....ive always wanted to see something like this!

I’m glad I found this channel! Thank you!

Another great video!!! It's nice to see someone tell the truth about the expensive products.

I love data.Thanks Richard.What surprised me was the fact that even though it's just headers there really wasn't as much of a gain over factory manifolds.

Getting ready to swap to an LS in our Monza. This was very timely!

@zadokmotorfreight2423

3 жыл бұрын

Gotta give anyone keeping an old Monza alive a thumbs up!!

Love your videos. Thank you for taking the time to make them

Having run many inexpensive headers ($89 i think was the cheapest and they burned #3 wire off every other month) i was thinking of the fit and customer service through most of this video. Great job hitting all the points!

My DNA headers had straight, thick flanges and fit great with no leaks but upgraded the gaskets just to make sure. $200 for good looking headers. I am happy with them for sure.

Really would like to see a comparison to Tri-Y long tube headers, such as Doug Thorley.

@upnorthviking823

4 жыл бұрын

Dont know about v8 s but i know on 4cyls they are the best design

@issuesmotorsports2457

4 жыл бұрын

Also testing true merge collectors vs non merge would be interesting.

@Maverick09171

3 жыл бұрын

Yes. This is what we need

Great comparison that was well articulated and unbiased.There 2 other things to consider. Flange thickness which can affect sealing and pipe thickness which affects underhood head and noise.

This is a good test but one thing you have to factor in is header primary tube and collector flow on each set of headers. We have found through dyno testing and flowbench testing that header flow will have a dramatic effect on hp output. Two different flowing shorty headers will not produce the Same power output. Same as the long tubes. There's so much science involved when searching for more hp.

I have set DNA headers on wife’s suburban for couple years. Been very happy with them. Next up will be a truck cam.

We found that if you modify the short header exit to proper merge collector it will make as much as long tube version.

@richardholdener1727

4 жыл бұрын

it will not

@v-performance

4 жыл бұрын

@@richardholdener1727 It will. At least 5 dyno runs to prove it. We compared modified ebay shorties to kooks - 5.0 coyote. Literally no difference

Love all these tests!!!

Cool channel, I just watched your turbo HEMI video and was very impressed.

Your thumbnail has me rolling, keep up the awesome videos.

thank you for the video's, They are some of best video's on KZread ,

... oh yeah, and please feel better, get well soon, hope you have a full and speedy recovery!

Can you please bolt on some 180 degree headers and see if they make a difference over long tubes , I love the way they sound

Great info as always buddy. Thanks for putting in the effort.

Already got ebay longtubes for my Coyote, they work great.. less then $200.00 for them only issue i had was one 02 sensor bung was welded a little off center from the hole so a little grinding was needed to get the sensor to thread in, but im not complaining, I saved alot of money.

I had to get an ebay header for my old car, 93 sidekick. The old stock manifold was cracked. It did run a lot better, mostly from not having the crack. But for IIRC $80 and $120 for a shop to install them, compared to $400 for a set of replacement manifolds. It was a great Improvement.

This video was very helpful, i had a set of cheap eBay headers on my 95 vw golf, where almost all of the parts came from fleabay.... on my new chrysler 300c ill most likely go with a set of more expensive long tubes, especially since it's going to get a cam and tuner! Thanks for taking the time to make these videos!

Great information, thank you for saving me a ton of headache and $$$

I run the Speed Engineering LT headers on my 5th gen zl1. Been over a year no problems and fitment was no problem.

Very well done. Straight forward, no bs

I'd like to see what YOU choose to go cheap on and what YOU refuse to, I enjoy watching your channel it's extremely informative and a little different than all the billion other channels. Needless to say I'll watch your channel for a new video before others. Hope your head heals up n good luck

Another great video, thanx Richard !

Hey Bub, I usually don’t make comments but you definitely got a subscriber on this one I want to see more!

EXCELLENT tutorial like keep 'em coming!

Would love to see tuned length headers vs standard long tubes.

@AB-80X

3 жыл бұрын

It is one hell of an undertaking. Tuned headers are also a part of a tuned intake. Ever wondered why a Ferrari V12 screams? It's the intake tuning related to the headers. That's what Ferrari does better than just about anybody.

Great job on the comparison. Definitely subbed

eBay headers fit great on an engine dyno

@timh1187

4 жыл бұрын

They fit great in my big truck before it got the turbo treatment.

@beto_lsx497

4 жыл бұрын

Yea they fit great on my 2011 silverado

@stlchucko

4 жыл бұрын

9090ruby Engine Masters already covered denting headers to clear objects doesn’t affect power much. They beat the hell out of a couple Hookers with hammers to prove it.

@9090ruby

4 жыл бұрын

ChuckO doesn’t mean i want to go denting up my exhaust to make it fit

@timh1187

4 жыл бұрын

@@9090ruby pretty clear you have never built anything before. Nothing ever fits as advertised. If your even lucky enough to get the right parts on the first try.

$1500 to $2000 for headers is just to much for a stock engine with just a cam upgrade!

@1godgodgodgodgod

4 жыл бұрын

It's to much for any engine.

@kelinjohnson7421

4 жыл бұрын

only to gain 20hp if that

@Shadow0fd3ath24

4 жыл бұрын

its too much for anything that doesnt make 2000+hp and need to be made out of titanium

@madmod

4 жыл бұрын

@@1godgodgodgodgod 8:1 collector with boom tubes may be worth it. Beyond that it's a pissing match.

@raymond-simmons1simmons15

4 жыл бұрын

R

Thanks for the rundown on the results! Def great info to know! Based on that data, as long as the fitment of the inexpensive headers is acceptable, then I wouldn't have any issue with using them. From a cost perspective, they're pretty much disposable.. but nobody want to replace stuff "just because". So, it would be interesting to hear from others about their longer-term experience with the lesser priced parts with regard to rusting, reliability of the welds (life without leaks), as well as discoloration. Ceramic? Blankets? Bare? I imagine that Richard would excel in an American Sign Language course! Thanks again!

Awesome video! What did I learn? Headers don’t make as much power as people think they do.

@DSRE535

4 жыл бұрын

Bottom line is LS engines breathe very well even stock

@Superado2006

4 жыл бұрын

On a stock engine no, but on a modified motor they do and more.

@Maverick09171

3 жыл бұрын

You missed the point. Peak power - no. Bottom end gains - hell yeah

The Jury's In ! Best Bang For the Buck on stock is correct cam and springs that still work with the Stock Torque Converter

I was always told the big difference at least for ford headers was Flange thickness. Cheaper one can look identical but material and thickness of the flange are the big difference. Cheaper one's tend to warp over time and break studs and obviously cause exhaust leaks. Great video btw very useful information!

I put these cheap eBay headers on my 2012 Crew cab 243 heads 600 lift cam 4 years ago great set up.

I am amazed at the efforts this fella puts into this and I don't have to pay for it, he's not trying to sale anything 🤯 talks at a normal speed, intelligent, I'm only subscribed to two different channels this and athlean X, Two similar very cool guys, only this is stuff I might actually do lol

Great video! Thanks for the testing. For further improving these videos: putting a table with all the results in one shot after the testing would be really nice.

I have a set of Ebay headers on my L67 Grand Prix, they come 3" collector, and I put a 3" Flowmaster cat, 3" piping right to the single Flowmaster 44 muffler, with dual 2.5" exits. It sounds super deep, and crispy.👍👌🇨🇦🔥🔥🔥

I like that you do apples to apples stuff.... 5 decades of hearing how this manifold for intake or exhaust will add "25% HP gain! I love to see the actual practical numbers. Also... I put the camaro cast manifolds on my 5.3 in an LS conversion and they added about the same power.

@DittoBlast

Жыл бұрын

What year of Camaro and what did you swap the engine into? I'm going to swap a 5.3 in a 92 Sonoma with 4WD. I still have the stock manifolds, but I am just wanting to plan ahead and see what other people have gone with.

I’ve looked at EBay headers. I liked the fact that they were stainless, but read the reviews about figment, and durability. They weren’t too convincing. I ended up getting a good set of Schoenfeld circle track headers, cause I wanted low to mid range torque. I had to remove my AC box to get them in, but once I did, the headers fell right into place. For a street rod that I only drive in goo weather, it was worth it. I gained ground clearance. My original mass produced headers didn’t give me that. I don’t have to lift the engine to remove or install them, and they actually gave me a pretty noticeable kick in the butt, when I drove it.

I was actually just thinking about getting the dna headers for my Silverado this video just sold me

My short tube headers were very thin where the exhaust piping bolted up to them. The exhaust guy did great welds but at the confluence of the very thin wall SS and the aluminized tubing it was a difficult weld. Remember these do not have a flange just a short end of the tube that clamps to the headers. Flange thickness at the head was adequate and I had no issues with them leaking there. Spark plug access was fine but the set up needed a set of ceramic boots on the wire to keep from burning them. Don't forget to add the cost of the wires to the change over.

Great tests Could you do a test of the use of anti reversion chambers . And collector design

Thx that’s all I needed for my daily driver The shorties will be just fine

Sharing this out, great video Thanks

I don't even own an ls and i loved this video. Great job .Subsrcribed

Yo RICH your videos are RICH. LOADS OF INFORMATION FOR THE LAYMAN AND THE PROFESSIONAL. YOU ARE THE BEST. Frieburger and crew take heed. By the way. I purchased the cheap Ebay headers for my 6.0 Ls build Just as test and engine break in. The fit was poor and broke a couple of spark plugs upon installation. In my opinion the more expensive headers are the way to go if your going to keep them for every day use or racing.

Good info man! ARH on my ls1 Camaro has great fit and power. Worth the money IMO.

I put a set of Hooker Super Comps on my mild 350 in my '76 Camaro. I only used them because I found a set for $50. But I have to say they are the best fitting SBC headers I've ever owned. I only had to clearance one tube to clear a spark plug. Everything else was great. They might not be optimal but the good fit was worth the trade off.

I've always liked the long tube headers better but never used them they're just sitting in the garage. But after learning that I might fit them on

Had my cheap ebay lt DNA headers on for years and the only gripe I have is the primary on the driver's side has a weird turn to clear the steering shaft which sometimes burns a plug wire. I just used header wrap and wrapped the plug wires with the boots

It’s nice to see that the 4.8l with a cam wasn’t really that “restricted” with stock cast manifolds at high RPM’s.

@richardholdener1727

4 жыл бұрын

I wrote a book on Focus Performance-including a chapter on turbos-they can make good power

@rynev3392

4 жыл бұрын

Anthony Thomas, you’re right, but the point I was making is that I and many people have had the belief that you have to get headers to make power and allow the engine breath, when in reality you need to upgrade your cam shaft for better results as far as high RPM power

Another great video from Richard, I would go with the name brand Richard didn't mention it but quality thickness of the tubing ect makes a difference of longevity

Awesome video!

i stopped watching engine masters to watch this dude hit that thumbs up

Am currently planning a header install on my 06 Vette. Was looking at Kooks with X pipe. May have to look at other (Ebay) options. Thanks for the video.