Be sure to check out my recommended product page on my website where I have brief reviews on things I use⬇ www.outdoors55.com/shop This is a work in progress and is updated frequently🙂 IMPORTANT⬇ This video is a brief summary of the mystery steel file world! I tested over 30 files and did almost 300 hardness tests. Testing hardness at the surface, as well as at various depths beneath the surface, all the way to the middle of each file. I also tested multiple heat treat coupons for each file, testing both water and oil quenching. This video is a good summary and overview of my findings. Keep in mind your results may differ as file manufacturers may adjust their steel and heat treatments over time. If you think I missed something (im sure I did) leave your thoughts below. The idea here is to learn as we go, and any info is good info👍 I left a link to a through hardened file in the description (I tested 3 of these with great results). Thanks for watching!

@mrhoogles

9 ай бұрын

just for the record, probably should have mentioned, when hardened steel breaks, it also has a tendency to send shards directly toward your eyeballs., also... why is that?

@OUTDOORS55

9 ай бұрын

I did mention that, and included a link to a video showing how dangerous breaking hardened steel is. The link is up on the right corner of the screen when I mentioned it.🙂

@mrhoogles

9 ай бұрын

@@OUTDOORS55 im sorry, you did, my bad.

@ogi22

9 ай бұрын

Very beautiful presentation. I guess i was lucky (and i used an already broken file with a nice fine structure break) for my first wood carving knife. Still my favourite tool for carving spoons after a few years. I guess it's time to make a proper sheath for it😉. I'm slowly getting into blacksmithing and i hope to make my own spoon knife. The first one i made was too thin and had a crack so it broke 😒. But i made it a couple years back in a kitchen, during winter time, heating up that file in our central heating coal stove😊. And that was fun! If my mom lived, she would probably chase me with a broom from that kichen. Dad was pretty ok with it and smiled a little. He had blacksmithing lessons in his school time.

@Monsoonpain

9 ай бұрын

I found a file that says REX U.S.A. It's old., with a kings crown logo. KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT ? I can't find any info on Google. Thank you

I love your dedication to providing accurate, measurable results. That's a lot of effort and suffering you're saving a broke beginner from.

Remember what he said folks. Choosing poorly could result in you aging a thousand years and less than 10 seconds. And being blown away to nothing more than dust.

@OUTDOORS55

9 ай бұрын

Someone got the reference 😂👍👍👍👏👏

@johnathanwright8948

9 ай бұрын

You have chosen wisely.

@acidz0037

9 ай бұрын

“He chose…. Poorly…

@paulklee5790

8 ай бұрын

I’ve definitely noticed that quite a lot recently…

@nicholasaxelberg8167

7 ай бұрын

I heard the theme music in my head when he said that on the video...😂

Thanks god this man made a new video. Worked 6 days 9hours each day this week and I need this to chillout now

Ive been watching your channel for 3 years and I love the information garnered from your experience. Thank you and keep it coming!

WOW! That was a lot of research and experimentation. Amazing work, thanks so much!

Your videos have helped me tremendously because your 'cut to the chase', no bullshit style of delivery is well researched and always seems to give me the info I needed. Keep it up. Cheers Rick Widomaker Queensland Australia.

All sage advice! My father, a violin maker, made most of his tools including specialty knives and planes. His experience agrees 100% with everything you said here. I'm glad others still know and share this knowledge!

Thanks for all the (years worth of) hard work and information!

Very impressed with your information I haven’t heard/seen elsewhere. No nonsense delivery too. Well done my friend!

Awesome video!!!! Glad you took the time to present your findings

thank you for this nice description - it is all very clear IN HINDSIGHT, and your "check this FIRST" suggestions are great

A lot of good information here ! Thank You for your efforts in putting this together !

Always saw file knives (& saw blade knives too). Gotta confess I wasn't aware of these facts. Always picking up some knowledge on your videos. Appreciate the thoroughness of your testing & glad to see another post from you !

wow, I did not expect this video to be even remotely as thorough as it is. you really did enough due dilligence to produce reliable information (certainly better than I would do), rather than just making like three blades and then guessing where the problems are and leaving the viewers to contemplate on how reliable your semi-intuitive judgement may be. you've got a hardness tester, repeatable heat treatment, and a big enough sample size to categorically exclude wood and hoof rasps and files, which is the most useful sort of information for the average viewer who wants to make something from old files that works the first time. thank you for making a very useful video!👏🙂

This is the only makers channel in my subscriptions where I feel 100% comfortable hitting thumbs-up before I watch a new video, and never yet had to un-click it!

@OUTDOORS55

9 ай бұрын

Thanks! Really appreciate it!

Very good video, just remember if your rockwell testing on case hardened material your likely to push right through the hardened layer. Especially on the the c scale. The thinner the layer the less weight you use to test and change the scale to b or a. There are many ways of testing treated steel and its best to read up on what is the right one. I had many years of treating different types of steel and the accompanying testing involved....its an art in itself.

Great video. Back in the mid 50's dad made my first fixed blade knife out of a file what kind what brand name I have no idea , I did all the roughing grinding under dads eye all I can remeber is him telling me don't let it get hot . It has a scandi edge all these years later it is my favorite knife especially for skinning it has a 4-1/2 inch blade 4 inch stacked leather handle which by the way other than being bite darker is just like new All my leather gets oiled every new year whether it needs it or not. Also keep in mind I've never tried to bend or shot it or hit it with a hammer . it just cuts every time I ask it to skinning or wood for kindling never batoned with it just cut things . Happy Trails Uppps forgot I HAD TO MAKE A NEW SHEATH FOR IT ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO THE ONE I MADE FOR IT BACK WHEN i WAS A KID OUT OF ONE OF GRANDPA'S OLD BOOTS FINALLY WORE OUT AT THE BELT LOOP . hAPPY TRAILS KEEP ON MAKING THOSE SMART VIDEO'S.

@opotime

9 ай бұрын

All i can add to this is...if you build it, you use it for what its Made:-) And if you writte down the dimensions or make a trace picture if it...then you can rebuild it...even if you lose it Greatz from Germany and have a nice Day opo

@detacheddad3396

29 күн бұрын

That’s cool you still have it and actually use it.

I’m so glad that you’re back making videos. I love your content. Please keep on doing it. God bless you 🙏🏼😁👍🏼

love your videos man, great quality and very informative.

Bless you for NOT saying "heat up to nom magnetic, then quench & snap".

Really good stuff, Alex! Keep it coming.

Good stuff as always! One of my knife maker friends said they can make any steel hard( case hardening) so I should look for the older American made files. Most new files today suck. Auctions are usually your best bet for finding old files for cheap!

Thank you for your hard work on this one. Great video 👍

Thanks for all this research, and a very approachable video. While I sometimes enjoy making a knife out of mystery steel, just for fun, I stick to known steel for the knives I sell as knives. HT is always a mystery with mystery steel, of course.

Thanks for the video, I did t realize the difference in files. This is something that I have considered doing and no one has ever mentioned this.

Yay! A new video. Always look forward to your content my friend. Entertaining,educational, and CLEAN! I so appreciate your humor and personality and love for helping us simpletons understand the basics of knife making without the need to use vile language in every sentence. I know Ive mentioned this before, but you really make understanding all the basics of this very easy. There are not too many channels that actually teach how to do all this stuff. One day I would love to get the stuff to mess around with making knives. Unfortunately my health isn't great and I live in an apartment. But my parents have a garage I could use if I ever feel well enough to put it into practice. God bless you friend. Cant wait for the next video.

@Hungrybird474

8 ай бұрын

Yup 😊👍

incredibly useful information! i recently got into knife making through stock removal and offered to make one for a friend if they provide the file. ill need to revisit this video when the time comes. thanks very much for this. you have a new frequent follow for sure.

Excellent and informative video. I have had good luck with the farrier's rasps I get from my farrier, but he buys the more expensive ones (>$30 each). I always test them before use though, by cutting off the tang, heating, quenching in water, put in a vise and whack it with a hammer. They snap and demonstrate good grain structure. I am not giving the brand, because that brand also makes case-hardened rasps, so it is more important to test them, which I do with every file except duplicates from the same lot (lot number given on the rasp). With that said, I also ALWAYS do a full heat treatment on the finished product (with an anneal before working) using a fast quenchant (50). I would not try to simply grind them and use original heat treatment. Caveat: I do not have an HRC testing device. I go by file skating and Japanese testing files as well as experience showing good edge retention with use.

The way you have made this video was excellent and very informative and gives complete answers regarding this topic excellent work

I love your videos. The way you explain procedure and the reason behind them really makes it understandable to an untrained simp like myself. Teaching is an art, and you are a master of it. Thank you. This video just saved me some labor and misery, as I just picked up several ferrier rasps that I was going to make knives out of lol

Another great video. Thanks for the guidelines.

Thank you for your hardwork! 🤙

Great info thank you! I've been trying to work up the courage to make a custom carving gouge from an old file, I think I'll save my limited resources on re-purposing an old truck leaf spring instead 👍

A lot of really good information thanks for posting the video

Thank you for sharing this very informative video

Man you are the best. Please never leave, you're a great teacher. I was just talking about this topic the other day ! Thank you for the dedication!

@GerstBladeworks

9 ай бұрын

@@xAppOUTDOORS55 Really?! What did I win?! 🤓

@GerstBladeworks

9 ай бұрын

@@xAppOUTDOORS55 is it knives

@GerstBladeworks

9 ай бұрын

@@xAppOUTDOORS55 is it grinders?

@GerstBladeworks

9 ай бұрын

@@xAppOUTDOORS55 is it money's

@GerstBladeworks

9 ай бұрын

@@xAppOUTDOORS55 is it poo poo in a bag?

This was a VERY useful video for me because I am planning to use an old file to make my first knife, Thanks man!

@OUTDOORS55

9 ай бұрын

Glad it helps!

Thank you for the video. I really appreciate the information.

Great explanation of what I already thought. Thanks for the more scientific explanation.

Great info as usual. I have made a couole of knives from Files and so far they have performed quite well, so while I am hoping that they continue to perform, if they don't I will have more info to help understand what may have been the reason.

Thank you for the work and the video. I also had the same thoughts but no equipment to prove them with. I'll be watching more thanks again.

Great presentation. Lots of good information.

Good info! I didnt know there were such differences between files. And I am the type of person who would be tempted to make a knife out of an old file found at a yard sale. You likely saved me, and maybe others, from a disappointing learning experience. Thank you, Sir.

@TylerSnyder305

9 ай бұрын

If you're in the US just go by brand. An American made Nicholson, Simonds, or Heller Bros metal file is going to be a safe bet.

@wrstew1272

9 ай бұрын

New Nickelson not even in the running. Old- was great stuff. Since they outsourced to foreign soils they got really sorry. Ran a wooden boat shop for a dozen years and bought a lot of files, sharpening scissors (Fiskars) made of really good steel, and would go through a file a week. Then they farmed out and the files would not cut- just skidded across the metal. Went to belt grinder, absolutely had to. Where do you source others? I like in the boondocks, so any help would be appreciated

@TylerSnyder305

9 ай бұрын

@@wrstew1272 yeah, I've had decent luck with them but they don't last anywhere near as long. About 10 years ago I finally wore out an old Nicholson black diamond file that belonged to my grandfather, and I have no clue how long he had it. I have yet to spring for them but have heard the German made Pferd files are the best you can get these days.

@OUTDOORS55

9 ай бұрын

I left a link in the description to the exact model number I tested. It was a new nicholson that was completely through hardened to 68hrc. Im not sure where these myths of new stuff not being any good comes from. Theres no file steel out there that will hardens higher than 68. Ive had great results with the new nicholsons.

@TylerSnyder305

9 ай бұрын

@@OUTDOORS55 it's not really a myth necessarily. I've had decent luck with the current ones that are made in Mexico, but they were made in Brazil before this and a lot of people were very unhappy with the steel quality/ longevity. I've been happy enough with the current Nicholson files, but maybe the steel is different because they do not last as long as the American made Nicholson files would. I've used both and they just don't.

Top notch vid brother!! Thanks for the info.

Too funny! I received a farriers rasp in the mail yesterday. Thanks for the great content. If it's a long winter, I may try and make myself something but this makes me rethink making a file knife as a gift. Thank you!

Hey now, THAT is a video I want to watch. Thank god you showed up now dude. I have to clean out the basement and couldn’t find anything I wanted to put on while doing it. Love the wisdom dispensed on this channel

@incorrigiblerogue1193

9 ай бұрын

i do this as well, usually all day. although it seems like youtube knows the second I walk away from my phone and climb a ladder, crawl under something, or am otherwise preoccupied, and I am then subjected to whatever scam ads youtube is running that day.

Thanks for your efforts!

Thanks! Great information!

Thank you for the tips!

Nice job with useful information that can be used by most people in their shops. A set of calibrated files may be an affordable alternative to a hardness tester.

Use masonry bits for hardened steel! I like to put negative rake on it, works really well!

Thanks well explained.

Very informative, thanks!

Great informative video... thankyou

Thank you for the info. Thus will same me a lot of pain and list time.

Well done! Very Helpful!

Thanks, that was helpful. It takes me many times hearing the same information, before it sinks in.

Great tutorial. Thankyou

thanks a million i learned a ton

Very helpful... thanks for the info bud...

U have a good passion! Very helpful! Thanks!

Yep just keep them coming please…. The videos I mean, informative and straight to the point while still humorous.

Excellent information. I also have a rasp file that is designed for cast aluminum! Of course brass, bronze and copper as well.

I do a rudementary heat treatment test of a small chunk from every file or other mystery steel I intend to make a knife from. Literally nothing except for new steel with a known spec is standardized enough that you don't have to test it, and even that should be tested occasionally.

Λιγοι ειναι αναλυτικοι και καλοι σαν εσενα. Συγχαρητηρια . Διαφωτιστικος,

Very helpful. Thank you

I’ve made probably 100’s of file knives, used to make 1700s knives and many originals were made out of files. I only used vintage old American files,that right there will take care of most of your problems Don’t use a rasp because of the teeth I forged all my blades and the rasps teeth can cause problems When annealing the blade, heat up a flat bar, put it in a tray of vermiculite or wood ash then lay the red blade on it and bury them in the vermiculite I usually differentially tempered my blades. Easiest way is to paint the back with stove clay then heat it and quench it in hot Oil.

Amazing video i needed this info. I got about 30+ files i got off ebay for like £20 gonna start some amature knife making in the future. Been using 80crv2 flat bar and an angle grinder for practice i don't have a forge yet.

Great as always.

Great work

Super good information! Love it!

the vast majority of youtubers could learn from this account. extremely well done!

Good video, thanks for sharing, God bless !

Great video - very clear (to me at least). Yes, those relatively inexpensive rasps are "compositionally" hard. they have a bunch of carbide or whatnot in the steel mix, hence the grain. They are reasonably wear resistant, but not very tough. I believe they are also impressed with the their teeth while in the red hot condition, and then quenched fast. The expensive hand made woodworking rasps are through hardened, because the teeth are cut cold, then the entire rasp is hardened. That said, who wants to make a $150 file into a knife? There are so many worn out steel cutting files available. I was given a dozen 12" lathe cut files 30 years ago, and I still have a few of them lying around for future projects. I don't typically make knives, but I do make other odd cutting tools for weird applications, and the repurposed old files are a pretty good choice for something I may only use once or twice. Thanks for your hard work!

@OUTDOORS55

9 ай бұрын

Exactly! Thats the tough part about using files. The manufacturing method greatly influences steel type and whether it's useful as a knife. Thanks for the input!

@CrimeVid

2 ай бұрын

I think I’ll limit myself to power hacksaw blades, I’ve seen them used in factory packing rooms, both on cardboard and flesh, they work well for both and the packing tape handles are easy to make !

Great video Alex! Thanks for sharing! 😎👍🏻🔨🔥🔪

I've been making file knives for the last few years and learned most of the things you mention the hard way. I never touched rasps, I knew they would be no good for a knife, for the most part. I did buy a large file to make a medium bowie and got my heart broken when I realized it was case hardened... much too late into the build. I have learned to tell the difference in hardness in how the grinder takes material off, softer comes off like crazy, it feels weird in comparison to a nice tempered file. I do not re-heat treat my knives, I do not have the facilities, I temper the file and then carefully grind down from there, cooling in water regularly. This takes time, but has the benefit of leaving me with a knife of the proper hardness without overmuch worry. I do the ghetto method of annealing for pins in the handle, works like a charm but I wrap the blade with wet towels and monitor the process very carefully, watching the color of the steel to tell me when it's done. (Usually dark blue.) I really appreciate the work you put into this and wish I had had access to it years ago, its good info! File knives are great when made right and can give you a nice, usable blade as good as many manufactured ones. (If not better.)

@jimdavis8391

5 ай бұрын

Why would a rasp be no good?

Good info for newbies🤟🤟🤟🤟

Very much appreciated. Subbed!

If found this great basic steel type info for a beginner knife makers. I am still planning my first knife.

Great info

Very interessting, thanks. I personally never heard that you should use rasps as base material for a knife, only files. During C crises I made paper-sheets for all and wood handles for some on my files and rasps (about 25 large ones, 10 medium ones and 20 very small ones) to preserve them longer. handling these I can somewhat tell its different materials in them, shine, rust, sound and handeling on material etc. And especially newer rasps seems to be poor "mystery metal" as they go dull quickly (hardly sharp to begin with). I do save the dull ones in case I would somehow sometime get access to a forge. But this video of yours have made believe I shall not save the rasps., Thanks again.

I've wasted a lot of time...a lot trying to make file knives. I found plenty of case hardened. Nicholson files have always been good to me. Have you ever tried the hardness of RR spikes? More so the ones with HC on em. I know they're not ideal to be making blades and that they're more of a novelty item but ive always been curious as to how hard they can get using ice water, cold oil, parks or canola. Great video, thank you for taking the time to teach us a bit about using files, cheers 🍻

Brilliant!!

This becomes even more of a pain in the ass when the files you are using are 6+ decades old and many of the manufacturers have gone the way of the dodo. Though, in my experience, most of them have been through hardened. Yet another reason I’m glad my grandfather passed on to me a lifetime of experience and knowledge. He first explained grain structure to me when I was still in middle school.

great video brother thank you!

As a guy who has forged thousands of knives I sure wish I had a hardness tester that said I have my favorite steels to forge knives and tools from

Useful science 👍🏻

Solid information, per usual. Much obliged. Hey, if it’s not too much trouble, could you do similar tests for 3 or 4 manufacture’s of drifts, punches, chisels, and gouges? And if you could have that up by Wednesday I’d really appreciate it. [I’m kidding, I appreciate what you do, when you’re able to do it. I’m not looking to bury you in tedious repetition in the hopes it means I never have to encounter variability in my work. I learn from what you post, but if I encounter something you haven’t talked about yet - then it’s on me to find the solution. Keep being awesome. Cheers!

Good information, thanks.

Great video!

THANK YOU i ALLWAYS WONDER!!!!

I have a knife my friends dad made out of a file about 50 years ago. In other words, an OLD file. My buddy skinned out an elk in Idaho without re sharpening.(his story) But it does sharpen up nice and holds its edge great.

Lots of good information here. I honestly don't understand the compulsion to use mystery steel to make knives. The appeal of free seems to be too strong for some people to resist. STEEL IS CHEAP! 1075-1080 steel is very forgiving. It's easy to heat treat and A 60" .187x 1.25" bar can be had for under $25. That's enough steel to make 5 large knives or 7-8 medium knives. You can quench it in vegetable oil from the grocery store.

Nice one ! thanks mate !!

You gain my subscribtion for this! 😃

Thank you.

Thanks!

Really wonderful job -- 30 files is a fantastic sample size for this!

@OUTDOORS55

9 ай бұрын

Maybe, maybe not though...Just one file added to the mix that didn't conform to the standards throws the whole thong off. If I had tested a rasp that hardened sufficiently id have to add another category or add a caveat. Its the unknown mystery steel conundrum.

Great info, thanks.