My Porsche 911 appreciated 10k EUR in last 2 years, while generating 16k in maintenance bills. Looking at prices of some Ferraris that require 8k maintenance job every 5 years and their age, total sum of maintenance is about 2x the asking price of the car. One need to be very lucky or terrible at math to do this. I just buy for enjoyment.

@philipcupid6660

Жыл бұрын

Jack - I'm still waiting for the price of a good Ferrari 456 Auto to fall so that my wife could buy it instead of her dream Range Rover Sport 5.0. I seriously have considered a Lancia Thema 8.32 before but the Mrs hates manual gearboxes, so that's not going to happen - lol. You are welcome in my viewing list always, but I'll not ever have an EV, hybrid maybe.

@tonyfischer-ev9ij

Жыл бұрын

You probably have this problem because you don't drive it ... I've got a BMW 650i 2006 with 196k and drives like the day I collected it. .... and a Bentley Supersport Convertible I've had for 4 years and I've hardly spent any money on it. The trick? Drive your cars and change the oil very regularly!

@MathewLewit

Жыл бұрын

​@@tonyfischer-ev9ij The opposite, I drive it a lot :) Those were wear items or items that expire with time (gaskets, hoses...). Things I would call a good maintenance and some preventative jobs (injectors cleaning). It never broke down nor generated any issue on its own. But it is a complex old machine that requires a lot of labour to get to things (engine out) and parts are not exactly cheap. I also have BMW Z4 I personally took over 300k km, it too generated some serious bills over time and depreciated badly on top of that. As I say, wonderful hobby, but hardly a smart investment for most. I am happy you managed to enjoy some serious machines with modest bills, keep it up.

@Frank-1978

Жыл бұрын

Brilliantly put 👍👌

@scod3908

Жыл бұрын

That's why many classic cars in "investment" collections are not in a drivable condition

Totally agree with your logic Jack. Buy cars to enjoy and if they appreciate in value, that’s a bonus.

If you can buy a car that you’ve always wanted and enjoy driving it, you shouldn’t expect to make a profit. If you get out of it, what you put in, you’ve hit the jackpot in my opinion. Happy classic motoring 🚙 💨

@A-world-of-My-Own

Жыл бұрын

100%

@jeb419

Жыл бұрын

Yes I consider that owning and enjoying a car and losing money on it is still worth it, as you get to experience that car and that is worth the cost to me. Same goes for many expensive hobbies.

@90sbuickguy84

Жыл бұрын

If you’re classic car makes you smile every time you drive it yeah I’d say you got your moneys worth no amount of return on an investment can put that same smile on your face I never view cars is a way to make money unless it’s like a McLaren F1 or something super rare and expensive like that but even then I still would enjoy driving a McLaren F1 more than I would selling it and collecting the money it would make them besides a proper car enthusiast to looks at cars as a hobby that is something to have fun with not an investment now on the flipside a McLaren F1 would provide enough money to buy other enthusiast cars to have fun with so I guess there’s a gray area there were also the only way you can daily drive and properly McLaren F1 is if you’re a Billionaire like Elon Musk because a tuneup on that car alone cost about five grand and then tires that’s probably gonna be another 5 to 10 grand so you really have to be mega wealthy to enjoy that car any length of time I’d probably rather buy a Porsche 911 Turbo or a Porsche GT3 or something like that like a 996 generation early 2000s and also not go bankrupt during the Sunday drive

@JamieStLouis-tu9ml

Жыл бұрын

Yes!

You’ve raised some absolutely great points. As an owner of a 1983 Mercedes, I can also say that the number of mechanics who can competently work on my car is also dwindling as they retire which will makes things quite challenging. On the other hand if inflation keeps soaring classic cars might be seen as some kind of inflation hedge. We are going through some very volatile times that seem to defy all predictions.

@mikemccormick8115

Жыл бұрын

I have a 1989 560 SL in Las Vegas and have one of two good auto repair shops who can work on it and repair with OEM parts. I enjoy this car daily. We sure get a lot of compliments, don’t we? 👍🏻😊

@mohammadcheema7375

Жыл бұрын

@@mikemccormick8115 Honestly I think the 80’s Mercedes are probably the best group of cars ever made. And massive respect to you for daily driving a 560SL. Hopefully kids will see it and understand what a real car should be.

@mariajoseuseromatute515

Жыл бұрын

So true! Mechanics and parts availability are challenges now. What about in 10 to 20 years from now? Good luck getting odd size tires, etc.

@secretsquirrel6718

Жыл бұрын

You should be working on an 83 Mercedes yourself.

@TheWestysworld

Жыл бұрын

Retro Fords for the win they won’t go down, silly thing to say after looking back at historical prices

All good points. Another factor regarding the “Youth interest” is that they didn’t grow up “Wrenching” on the “Affordable cars” available to them at driving age like we did (Gen X). I asked my son (Gen Z) recently, “When was the last time you were late because your car wouldn’t start?” His answer, “Never.” “Besides if it does I have you to fix it.” 🤦🏻

@lp9280

Жыл бұрын

I find this particularly sad... I would be considered Millennial and I still grown-up interested in cars and working on them etc. I already struggled to get insurance and car, but because I was brought-up with belief that this is required in life I persevered, paid thousands for insurance and I got my car and experienced amazing things and freedoms. But I am looking at kids now Gen-Z, Gen-Y ... they are not interested in the cars because on one hand it is not cool anymore, but on other hand they simply have no realistic chance of driving them before they are 30. Insurance is so ridiculously expensive now that nobody is insuring anything at 17 and driving itself isn't even enjoyable... it is just traffic and speed traps everywhere... Even if you get to drive the car, then there is nowhere to go, all parking removed, LTNs everywhere, so what is the point of driving 10 miles, of then you have to park 10 miles away from where you wanted to go and walking back... may as well just get an uber in the first place... honestly more pain than it is worth... and if people didn't become interested into something by the time they are 30, then they won't get interested into it.

@Low760

Жыл бұрын

This happens to every generation. Are boomers interested in 1940s and earlier cars?

@Low760

Жыл бұрын

This happens to every generation. Are boomers interested in 1940s and earlier cars?

@Southerngeordie287

Жыл бұрын

This has made perfect sense to me and I have been thinking the same for a long time👍

@bugattieb110ss

Жыл бұрын

I'd have punched the cheeky spoilt tw*t in the face, really f*cking hard if he'd said that to me!

People confuses investing with speculating

@bmstylee

Жыл бұрын

Indeed. However unless you are buying blue chip investments most investing is more speculation than anything else.

@marcos1669

Жыл бұрын

@@bmstylee No if you just buy indexes or treasuries, or you just think a company is good and you put your money on it

I bought my 93 RX-7 in 2005 or so for 6000 US dollars. It is now worth nearly ten times that. Sure I put about $30K into it over the years, but I've also been enjoying it and driving the sht out of it for almost 20 years now. It was never an investment though, but more of a dream car for me. Speaking of which, love your channel and I'm sure a lot of us would love more 90's Japanese car content. That really was a golden age for Japanese cars...RX-7, 300ZX, NSX, MR2/Supra, 3000GT, etc.

@capmidnite

Жыл бұрын

Blown apex seals?

@robjonson629

Жыл бұрын

I have a 95 Rx7 which has been for sale 4 years online with no offers, it’s runs and drives and has had 60k spent on it and is advertised at 16k

@SandDabs

Жыл бұрын

@@robjonson629 Please link me to the for sale page. I'm interested.

@robjonson629

Жыл бұрын

@@SandDabs its in the UK

@BrandonWillis-kf5zm

Жыл бұрын

I respect them. One day I will test drive a rotory engined car.

Man, you are killing my marriage ! Just a couple of weeks ago I showed up at home driving a Giulia 1300 super and the question was "why do you need this, when you have a 1750 already!?" - INVESTMENT ! :)

@Number27

Жыл бұрын

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

@jeffarcher400

23 күн бұрын

Tell it's because you can't handle two beautiful wives.

Totally agree with your outlook, Jack. It's the right time of our own lives to enjoy the cars that bring us joy, but to properly enjoy them as they were intended, not for financial reasons.

I saw photos from some Stag owners club meeting the other month. Most of the owners seemed well into retirement. You don't see so many people in their 20s & 30s wanting one. I think many (but not all) just don't have the same connection to cars as we did as you can talk to the world via a laptop. We had to drive to a small part of the world for socialising.

Jack, a very well presented and excellent 'lecture' on the state of the classic car market. What you say makes alot of common sense and is very good advice for anyone interested in classic cars, young or old. No one can really predict what will happen but the factors you mention are all very relevant. Thank you for posting great KZread uploads.

3 years ago I was considering buying a 355 manual, only for fun. They were around 65k in Europe. I did not. They are now between 110 and 130k. Within the same period I lost 5% with a 'safe' and not funny at all financial investment... Trees don't grow up to the sky but they are currently still growing....

Covid had a huge affect on used yacht prices, they went up a good 30%. I forecast that when the reality of the costs of ownership versus the amount of use, prices will drop dramatically

@mgbgth5097

Жыл бұрын

I think the same with motor homes

@MathewLewit

Жыл бұрын

It’s already happening with holiday homes and cottages, minus 20pct in past year for my area.

@CodewortSchinken

Жыл бұрын

That happened to pretty much all of those "grown man toys" you can spend time with alone like bicycles to cameras, vintage audio equipment, motorbikes, cars, watches, home electronics, etc. even houses. Some people lost their jobs during covid, but most, especially middle aged to older folks with higher income just sat at home while money piled up in their bank accounts. Here in germany classic car prices first took a significant hit in 2020 when people thought we would slide in a massive economic collapse, people stopped buying and alot of these "my W124 convertible is an investment"-dads got cold feet and wanted to sell. I was tempted to buy a neglected 924 with a friend which suddenly started to pop up left and right for 500-800€ but didn't. As soon as it became clear that a global virus epidemic was just boring af and wouldn't lead to total collaps as all of those zombie movies had told us prices started to climb both due to an increase in demand but also people who were primarily interested in investing their money rather than the object itself.

@thecentralscrutinizer1758

Жыл бұрын

I couldn't believe what people did when Covid hit. To go out and spend money (often money people didn't have) at such a volatile time was utter madness to me. It just illustrates how myopic many people are.

@truantray

Жыл бұрын

The world sliding into recession and Boomers dying will kill the ridiculous classic car market.

Sensible analysis; fully agree. One thing you didn't mention is that in the future the number of mechanics and specialists will decrease with consequent increased difficulty in finding them and higher costs. A bit like finding a mechanical clock repairer today.

@heiner71

Жыл бұрын

Plus the ever more complicated nature of cars and their electronics. It is already difficult to find electronics for some cars from the 90's, as these specialized components for a certain car, or set of cars was only made for a number of years. I remember reading somewhere that even BMW was desperately looking for old ECU components to fix M1 cars.

@alexjenner1108

Жыл бұрын

@@heiner71 from my understanding the BMW M1 has a quite rare Magneti Marelli ignition system, in part because BMW worked with several Italian companies when building that car and Bosch weren't quite ready with their own system. At least the circuit board layout for the ignition is available online, not sure about the components. The M1 was from 1978 and things haven't got much easier. Servicing the McLaren' F1 supercar needs a specific Compaq laptop to work with an interface card from the 1990s - at least that was true a few years ago, maybe McLaren have a new system since then.

@dungareesareforfools

Жыл бұрын

@peyiots This is one thing that bugs me about those who choose to convert classics to electric power. They're effectively hastening the demise of the infrastructure for the rest of us.

@Phiyedough

Жыл бұрын

Most people I know who own classic vehicles do most of the work themselves. I suppose that gets more difficult with something as complex as a Cosworth but is not a problem with 1970s and older stuff.

@dungareesareforfools

Жыл бұрын

@@Phiyedough Except for BDA, Lotus engines and the like ;-)

There is a lot of very reasonable and wise information in this video. Thank you for producing it.

Great video. I’m no longer a classic car enthusiast but I do love a classic motorcycle and can see exactly the same generational effect in that market. I grew up with (and still have) 1950’s to early-70’s British bikes which are now quite rapidly declining in value while 1970’s and 1980’s Japanese bike prices are rising as the following generation washes through. Only a handful of years ago the majority of stalls at bike auto-jumbles were British parts, now they are in the minority. The generational effect is powerful and plays in both supply (“without reserve from deceased estate”) and demand.

Really enjoyed this, the ‘generational’ idea is very interesting and thought provoking. I agree that younger people overall are probably less interested in cars compared to say 20-30 years ago. However if my local McDonalds, Gregs, Petrol Station, KFC and town centre are anything to go by, cars still have a massive appeal amongst a hardcore of 18-25 year olds. Personally I think there’s going to be a section of the older generation of petrolhead 40/50 something drivers like me who will never buy into electric no matter how hard the government push it. Therefore from now on in I believe the best and final generations of pure petrol performance cars will become more and more highly sought after as time goes on, even though the government will make them more and more expensive to run and will tax their owners to death.

@tonymoreton7166

Жыл бұрын

Yup, agree. I'll personally never buy an EV, on principle. The more governments force feed stuff to people, the more sure you can be that it is 100% wrong. Time will tell.

@stewartw.9151

Жыл бұрын

I suspect there may come a time when government will simply ban ICE cars from public roads completely. This will happen if and once the majority of cars in use are EVs.

Great video Jack. No matter how much you tell some people though they just can't see that you won't even be able to give most of these cars away in 10-20 years time. Buy what you love and enjoy it as much as you can. Like you say the rarest and most special cars will always be highly valuable but more as art pieces rather than vehicles.

The prices of 1960’s Shelby Mustangs began wildly climbing in the 1980’s. I remember one car mechanic who had bought one and sent it to a shop for restoration, then the economy started weakening in the late 80’s and the cost of restoration was going to equal or exceed the car’s value once finished. I didn’t find out if it did actually get restored as I stopped delivering auto parts to deliver pizza.

You can see the generational thing very clearly with motorcycle collecting. Up to about 10 years ago the hot properties were old British bikes, now it's more recent Italians and Japanese bikes of the 80/90s.

@marky9117

Жыл бұрын

You’re correct but the demand is by us 80’s kids who are now in our 40’s. So there’s a good 20 year window of demand yet. 👍🏻

As a senior advisor to a collectable cars fund in my day job, I cannot but only agree with you, Jack 👍

Great video, Jack. Many thanks for taking the time to produce it.

That’s nothing, Prince Andrew paid £12m for his escort!

@Number27

Жыл бұрын

😂😂😂😂😂😂

@ianashton1593

3 ай бұрын

Ha ha, that’s brilliant 😂😂😂

@panzervalkyrie9299

2 ай бұрын

😂

@edgarbeat2851

2 ай бұрын

😆

@ED-zc2um

18 күн бұрын

😂😂😂😂

Jack great thought provoking stuff. Just showed it to my 15 and 13 year old (boy and girl) - they smiled and both quickly agreed that “Jack does not get our generation at all…….” I am not sure I do either but they can both be at home with environmental issues as well as the internal combustion engine and the character and fun of a classic from a various decades - they are also not alone as I have noticed how their friends both younger and older react, rationalise and get excited. I think it is complex, with multiple layers, but feel your thesis is a great starter for a wide debate where views will equally be very diverse. Thanks again.

Very sound advice and I agree. I have been a long term collector, but, I have been lucky enough to afford the cars that I wanted at the time to drive. I have watched the prices of these cars over the years since the early 1970's go up and down like yoyo's. To me it doesn't matter because they are cars that I really enjoy owning and still driving and never intend to part with them. The other thing to bare in mind is the ever increasing cost of maintenance and repairs, if you add in the cost of this upkeep over the years any real net gain may not be as much as you think. Cars I have, 246 Dino Spyder, 365GT 2+2, 308GT4, 308GTS (early fiberglass body car. Yes I have a Peugeot 205GTi, Elan Sprint DHC, Esprit S2, XJS V12 Convertible with some TWR mods. I bought these cars all roughly under a year or two old and saved a lot of money on them at the time. The Ferrari's I bought during and around the 70's oil crisis when no one wanted gas guzzlers. So I am the second owner of all of them. I have all of the bills and dealer stamps since they were new, and let me assure you the cost of keeping them all in drivable key start condition is not cheap and not a matter to overlook in your selection. These are some of the cars that appealed to me no matter what others thought or whether they would increase in price or not. I still have that philosophy.

@richardbrayshaw570

Жыл бұрын

You're not Harry Metcalf's long-lost twin brother, are you? ;-)

@161BMW

Жыл бұрын

Also when you take into account inflation any perceived profit is lower.

@oldbasted

Жыл бұрын

Great collection but which of those cars is your favourite driving car.

@jonwilliam3597

Жыл бұрын

@@oldbasted Charles I love driving all of them for different reasons. The 246 when I was younger, then I grew to love the 308GT4, I felt it held the road and handled better than even the 308GTB, but does not have the appearance and charisma of the others. The GTB with its plastic body has a sort of boominess to it which can be distracting. The Elan sprint is fabulous but at my height it's hard to get in and out of. The 205GTi is just the bees knees to me in nearly everyway particularly as a daily driver. As I have aged the XJS is just fabulous, smooth and quiet and comfortable and with the TWR steering and suspension changes it handles and holds the road second to none. I didn't have any engine mods.

@pdcichosz

Жыл бұрын

Just out of curiosity, are you aware you could have conveyed the same message without writing down a list of things you own? It really doesn't change anything apart from the impression you make (not in a good way).

I love my my BMW 116 diesel( quite pokey) and enjoying the average mpg of 50 mpg. Being as I'm days away from being 60, I'm giving a lot of thought to getting a Toyota MR2. I know I'm getting close to the last car I will be able to drive- my age, cars available, combustible fuel being phased out by 2030/2035, 15 minute cities and all that. I'm getting that MR2. And it will be enjoyed. Cheers, Jeff. Cool vid.

@efirehawk

Жыл бұрын

Lucky you. I'm still in my early 30s and absolute love my 3 cars. If someone from the future would come and tell me that I would drive them and only them until I retire, I would be a very happy man. Sadly, I probably have less than 10 more years with them and the second half of my life will likely be without ICE cars altogether. Makes me sad in advance. I wish I could drive them until my 60s... but won't happen, probably.

I remember that video from 6 years ago. I agree with your thoughts though, as it is simply the nostalgia that put's a price on it. When those people are gone, who will remember them and then the values depreciates. Cool video.

I think you are pretty much spot on with your assessment, especially when you consider that there are ongoing costs for things like insurance, storage, etc. And, the components of an automobile will deteriorate with time even if it is not driven.

Really good overview, you are so right when you say generational demand is driving classic car prices. Be interesting to see what happens to modern classics prices over the next 10-20 years, given how quickly the digital/electronics become problematic.

I remember prices pumping beyond all reason in the late 80's. Then prices crashed in the early 90's & literally took 2 decades to recover..

Brilliant vid Jack... I agree with most of what you've said and as you mentioned, it's the relatively mundane classics we're talking about here, not the exotica. In terms of mundane stuff, the bargain classic at the moment has to be the E46. I have an immaculate low mileage manual 2003 325i Sport which is worth very little for what is a phenomenal car. I'm watching what happens to these with interest as they could well be the herald for the downturn. Having said that, I'm an A-Level teacher in a secondary school and you'd be surprised how many kids are actually very interested in car ownership... not only that but they actually lust after cars like the E46. Literally every day I'm being asked how much it would be to insure the E46... so both of us may well be wrong here. The overriding message though is don't plan your retirement around the increasing value of a Mk2 RS2000.

Unfortunately the first scrappage scheme killed alot of 80's and mostly 90's future classics off such as Vauxhall Calibras etc. If your lucky to find a nice Nova GSi it's well over 10 grand.

@c11yan

Жыл бұрын

I imported two lhd GSIs for 11k euros and stored them and made money… so yes you can make money from classics

Excellent video as always Jack, my adage is to buy the car/s you really like, but be very aware that maintenance cost's will rise, along with in some cases the cost of parts owing to their scarcity. Wonderful to own a classic but cost's can eventually outweigh profits.

You forgot you don't pay capital gains on classic cars. That is probably the biggest factor at play

@shabbos-goy9407

Жыл бұрын

wasting asset

@brianiswrong

Жыл бұрын

True And when you have money, the ability to afford special cars and an accountant who understands your passion.

@bigjohnfury5662

Жыл бұрын

​@@brianiswrong I've got money and cosworths...no accountant

@richardrichard5409

Жыл бұрын

​@@bigjohnfury5662 the owners don't change then😂

Totally agree with your point of view but I guess one additional factor was that at some point, many of the 70-80-90's cars went dirt cheap, which doesn't seem to be the case with current aging "cool cars" (like 2000-2010's "interesting" cars are not devaluating as much). I guess it has to do with the fact that there's less and less brand new "cool cars" sold.

Excellent points Jack. There is also the inflation aspect of restoring classic cars. As it becomes more expensive to restore a car, labour, chroming, painting etc the value of a good tidy or original example increases by default. The generation aspect is correct but for really unique or special cars this doesn't apply hence 1960's Jaguar E Type or 1950's Facel Vega.

The fast Ford prices are baffling. I wonder if the 600k Cosworth owner will regret the purchase at some point.

@entropy5431

Жыл бұрын

Without doubt. A real classic will be beautiful to look at and widely admired when seen parked. That Ford is, let's be honest, an ugly car and I bet almost nobody other than 40 years+ petrol heads would give it a second glance. The performance is what made it cool and these days even that is mediocre by today's standards.

I have a career in fine art valuation and all I can say is that there have been people collecting fine art for centuries. I don't see that stopping any time soon. I think with cars it will be the more exotic ones, the convertibles and coupes with the more powerful engines continuing to appreciate. They won't be driven much. The more ordinary models will eventually decrease in value.

Hi Jack, we’ve spoken before regarding my 308 GT4, which was a progression from 3 Esprits, 3 RS Turbos, 2 XR2’s.. etc. The GT4 was bought cheap but turned quickly into a full restoration. Although still miles off and thousands and thousands have been spent, 15 years in, I hope I can finally finish it at some point an drive it with petrol available. My sister 5 years younger has little interest in it, and we quickly realised a long time ago, our car choices are so different. So yes, totally agree with your video. I eventually sold a S1 RS Turbo for £1300 with an MOT and rebuilt gearbox, now what would it be worth?!

Very good and profound view. I really enjoy your videos.

It’s interesting when a car is a record breaking sale… that person essentially got the worst deal in history for that car.

I am old enough to remember the arse falling out of the classic car market a couple of times. £100k Jags in the 80's worth £20k later and many others. A Ford Sierra is a Ford Sierra which ever way you look at it. I owned many "fast" Fords years back. They were fun at the time as I was in my 20's early 30's but compared to modern cars they are rubbish. poorly made cheap cars. How they can have improved with age is beyond me?

Very accurate explanation jack. Ps where do you get those wireless mics like what your wearing 👍

Great advice. Still loving the channel 👍

Interesting video. I am one of the many people who have been priced out of the classic car market so it would be good news for me if prices drop. The most recent classic I bought was a 1976 Toyota Hiace coachbuilt camper which cost me £310 with a full MoT. I think that was in 2008. Previous to that I had an MGBGT and a Riley 1.5 each for £1000.

Agree 1000% Jack! Also, the 'upkeep expenses' need to be factored in, in keeping the thing. Insurance, rego (if it's to be kept in efficient, working order). In other words, the upkeep costs could outweigh the benefits of waiting for so many years until value goes up enough...

A really measured, informative and enjoyable vid, thank you 27...

I think this happened in the 80's. I had a magazine that listed many cars prices. Before and after. There was a Ferrari that was sold for 3 mil +. Later it went a little over 1 mil. You are spot on Jack.

@tobysemler

Жыл бұрын

Yep, Jack and I are old enough to remember when E-Types were selling for 100k in 80s money. And people were stupid enough to pay over retail for new cars! 😂

I bought a low mileage Impreza RB5 at the start of lockdown. It's nearly doubled in value! Having said that, the best bit about early lockdown was how empty the roads were! You're probably right about prices in the very long term but I wouldn't expect any crash for at least 20 years.

I agree with your thoughts, Jack, particularly on the Generational aspect. Derek at Matthewsons is often heard commenting that the market has fallen on the pre-war stuff for exactly this reason and the same is being seen in the classic bike market - values have fallen for the BSA Gold Stars and the like while 70s and 80s bikes from the Japanese manufacturers are seeing values increase.

Your so right in everything you say , i've just bought a classic Lambretta TV175 that needs restoration but because i love the styiling and looks i will spend money on the restoration . I don't care what its worth when i'm finished its a project for me and my passion. My job is painting and repairing cars day to day and also work on classsic cars. I have a savvy customer who deals in classic cars and has sold most off the cars he owns . Its only metal too him and money .

One point not mentioned is appreciation on cars is not subject to cgt. Once the masses follow a trend and prices start rising, it is self sustaining. That is until such time market sentiment changes in a wholesale way (usually from a better alternative coming to the fore)

Great video again Jack, I would say your points & predictions for long term classic car prices make sense. The only car I've ever owned that has made money is a 1995 Porsche 968 Sport, which purchased in 2009 for 7k, & sold in 2020 for 15k. Everything else over the years I would have been lucky to get my money back. Some cars I should have kept, room allowing: 1984 Astra GTE mk1 1987 Peugeot 309 GTI 1989 Astra GTE 16v 1988 Lancia Delta Integrale 1980 Ford Escort RS2000 All cars bought and sold for less than 5k back then 😢

I love seeing your RC car collection in the background Jack, especially your PB's (Mini Mustangs?) in this video as they are not commonly collected and I reckon a lot of them will be in pieces because of the plastic used in their construction 😊

@Number27 Excellent forecast. Just found your channel. I am a car lover and old. I’m in the U.S. I call it the Model T effect. Ford Model T’s were very collectable in the 1950’s and 1960’s by the folks that grew up with them. Sometime later, not sure when, the prices tanked. Because of your observation, the “generational” effect. And yes, the true rare and classic cars will be investments. Just watched the Mecum auction in Kissimmee, Florida and the Barrett-Jackson. The market is possibly different here as a casual observer prices seem at least stable for the average stuff. It will crack though, sooner or later.

I think this time around you might be right - the Classic Car Market bubble is going to burst at some point. I totally get the generational shift, those that grew up with Morris 8's etc are not looking to buy a Cosworth and those looking for a Cosworth are not interested in a Morris 8. The same is going to happen to the fast Fords, those that grew up with them will grow older and the next generation will have little association with a Cosworth Escort. A few years ago I purchased a Continental R, not as an investment, more because I really thought they were a piece of motoring history. I also bought a Mini Cooper, not because they are great to drive (which they seldom are by the way) but more because it's another piece of motoring history. Mine are not investments and doubtless an Aston Martin DB6 will always sell better but now in my late 60's I just want to enjoy cleaning and polishing my classics. They are street art to me...

@mr.summerset8054

7 ай бұрын

nice lineup of cars you have! But I had to intervene, the original Mini Cooper is an absolute blast to drive!

I believe you are absolutely right. I've been saying the same thing for a few years now. It's not going to happen overnight, but it will happen.

I agree on one hand but on the other hand people of all ages say “ that’s a really cool car “ when I go somewhere in my black 944.

Well said, and a fine display of humility to boot! I have two comments - first, I have owned a 1981 Porsche 930 for over 28 years…I love the car, and often walk through the garage just to look at it. However, it is apparent to me that younger generations are unimpressed…this is not the car they fantasize about owning (as I did in my youth). So to your point, the future value of the car is far from guaranteed. Second, while I am under no illusions that the current stratospheric value of these cars will continue, I do find it most useful when justifying to my wife the always-growing and numbingly costly pile of maintenance receipts that I have collected over the years!!

@robc8892

Жыл бұрын

Ha you must be joking. That's a dream car for anyone 😉

@chesswizard31

Жыл бұрын

​@@robc8892 Unfortunately not. I have the perfect story relevant to this, with a 930 no less. Last year I was at a local car show and a gentleman with his small son and myself were admiring a striking blue 930 outside. The kid, frustrated, said to his dad "This is NOTHING. There is a Performante over there!!" And dragged his dad away. Funnier still, that Performante I had already walked past and gave it no second looks.

A well worked out discussion, the way the world is heading though everything is off the table. I've always found the joy in cars is discovered as part of a long road trip.

The smelly old petrol cars that are made of real metal (pre-plastic fantastic) will hold their value, especially rare and beautiful sports cars. Best years: 1930s and 1960s. For those on a budget: MG, Triumph, etc. That's my two pennies' worth on the subject.

Thanks. As far as I'm concerned this is the only rational description I've heard of what has happened the reasoning and what may or is likely to happen into the future.

Good video and commentary feels reasonable. I’ve got a 57 E-code T-Bird I’ve been trying to decide what to do with for this exact reason.

never buy a classic car expecting to make money, don't be surprised at the cost of maintaining a classic car, things break down without fail, don't believe the saying, "they don't make them like the used to". 50yrs ago, cars were only supposed to last as long as the next model year. Enjoy a classic car for what they are, if you do make money, that's a bonus.

Good vid jack, never a truer word said, that's why I'm getting out of my classic now....or trying to

I think you are spot on, am 64 you do speak a lot of sense, l have watched this coming myself.

Brilliant. I was thinking about the generational element last night whilst watching fast fords go for silly money on Bangers n Cash. It must be generational I decided which means they won't have a market once the 40/50 yr olds try to cash out in the next decade, surely? You've explained this far better than i could but i think you've hit the nail on the head Jack.

I believe you're spot on with everything you've said Jack 👍

I think you have got it more or less right this time. Whilst insurance companies (UK) generally consider a 20 year old car as a classic many may not agree with that. People may say 'ah that's their excuse for raising the price of cover'. People may be right and there is a debate as to what can be called a classic (with regard to more 'modern ' cars) but I suspect that debate will just rumble on. Few of us will be able to buy a rare vintage Bentley for example so yes life is too short so go and buy a car you will enjoy as you say Jack. Thank you Jack for a very interesting video.👍👍

I started using a classic as a daily driver and now I compare to owning a "new" car instead. It's not depreciating anymore, and I drive a much more fun car every day. The owning costs and maintenance is higher, but most of that I would spend on a second car as a hobby anyway.

@RobinCapper

Жыл бұрын

Same, it amazes me how many are terrified of maintenance costs but oblivious to finance costs and depreciation losses that are far higher

@pdcichosz

Жыл бұрын

@@RobinCapper After a year with a 20-years-old car and having to visit a shop last minute before a longer trip because something's started sounding funny I kind of get it. Depreciation is the cost of peace of mind and many people are willing to buy it when they have the means, otherwise we wouldn't have any classic cars to begin with ;)

@Phiyedough

Жыл бұрын

Not sure if any cars are depreciating that much these days. New cars are so expensive that they are becoming out of reach for a lot of people so there is high demand for good used ones. Also cars made in the last 10 years or so are not as reliable because they are using inferior materials like plastic manifolds and thermostat housings.

@richardrichard5409

Жыл бұрын

I've an old Tran Am but I'd never let my daughter use it. Modern cars are biblically much safer.

@JohnFromAccounting

Жыл бұрын

If you are not being affected by depreciation, then the average cost is lower than a generic VW Golf. The depreciation on Golfs has been crazy because they are commuter cars. They are everywhere, undesirable, and once they get dumped on the market, it's hard to convince anyone to buy one.

Love your videos- would like to see you talk about those RC cars that are always behind you... that's the only kind of car I can afford to collect.

I remember buying my Lancia delta Evo many years ago just because it was the car I always wanted. I still have it and can’t believe what they are selling for now.

@carstenweiland7896

Жыл бұрын

Lovely car, do not sell it, enjoy it!

The Generational aspect was a great observation which had never occurred to me. Something else to be considered is the ongoing costs of looking after ones investment: storage, maintenance and insurance.

Very well explained upload..thank you !

Jack you got that absolutely spot on, all analysis was well considered 👏

I would add that as parts become more difficult to find, there is a critical value below which cars, even for enthusiasts, become "uneconomical" to keep on the road. This critical value also goes up and down with interest rates, but inversely. So that value is higher now than it was, so there is less "headroom" between the market price today ( coming down ) and this economic-to-repair price ( which is rising )

Very informative. Very good logic. Thanks … as always 😊

@iainhunneybell

Жыл бұрын

Love your content Jack. it is just the wonderful 'boyish' enthusiasm. It's just infectious. Oh, how I could enjoy a beer or 5 with you. Please keep it up ... and your patience with the Influenzo. Well, my hat off to you both for the scale of the challenges you take on AND for just keeping at it 😃

I think you’re spot on with what you say in this video, I’ve been saying the same thing for a while. The prices people are asking for some extremely dull cars is laughable. I understand why that’s happening as prices of more exciting cars go up they drag up the rest. There’s also the Goodwood factor….. Austin A35 prices are ridiculous mainly because they now race them at Goodwood. Unfortunately the classic car scene has also become “fashionable” so there are a lot of pretenders mingling about that will fall by the wayside when it becomes unfashionable again.😊

You nailed it on the cost of fuel going up!

DO NOT BUY A CLASSIC unless you want to SPEND SPEND SPEND they are money pits and usually the reason the original owner moved it on.

I think you are completely right and for the right reasons. Check out the classic motorcycle world for the same effect somewhat magnified - the boom in post-war British bikes looks to be over, they are not really desirable to people in their 50's and 60's, they want early Japanese bikes now so both the numbers for sale are up and the prices they are making have, I think, topped out and might even be coming down due to lack of demand (I saw a Vincent Rapide sell for £25k the other week. Big money but I know someone who paid the same amount for one, in very similar condition, more than 10 years ago and thought that was a bargain....🤔) I used to know a pre-war vintage bike specialist and he had a pretty good business employing a couple of old fella's (like himself) selling bikes and parts all over the country (and the world) but the last time I saw him (probably 15 years ago) he was very negative about his business. "No one wants pre-war bikes any more. All I get are phone calls from the children of the people I have been selling bikes to wanting to sell them back to me now" He closed not many years later. But who wants to spend big money on a 1930's Scott Flying Squirrel or BSA J12 now?

@kevincockburn7805

Жыл бұрын

100% agree, all the hype now for 1980s cars and bikes, are because people who were teenagers in the 1980s are now late 40s and mid 50s. Once that generation hits their 70s who is going to want a 1985 escort xr3i.

@cornishhh

Жыл бұрын

Look at the price of Yamaha FS1Es. All the 16 year olds who wanted one are now OAPs.

Good video and you bring up good points. Now I'm not into the cars you mention, however last summer I bought myself a low mileage 1998 Y87 garage queen Firebird for less than $10k. Two months ago my insurance company called me to go over or entire policy. They bumped the coverage of my Firebird to $15k. I wasn't expecting this at all. Being that it's a Firebird, many younger people don't know what my car is as they never, or rarely, heard of it. I understand the cars you mention are classes above my type of car, but it's still very interesting watching this play out.

Great video well presented and I agree with your logic. I think that it will be the cars that are now 20 to 30 years old now that will be unloved and disappear rapidly.

Wise words Jack ! As you say, once us generation Xs have croaked it, or are too old to drive, values of 80s cars will dip… that’s still 10-20 years away I guess

this was a great wake up call ... hope I live another 30 yrs lol .... the car I most wished I bought thanks to your video was that yellow 911 turbo ... what a fab car / video you did ... unfortunately it sold quick in lockdown 60k ... superb car 😄

Thanks a lot for that video which raises lots of interesting points. Couldn't it simply be that the current rise of price of classic cars is pretty symmetrical to what's observable on the 2nd hand car market for sportscars/performance cars ? All of us who are passionate about that simply seem to rush on them while we're still allowed, can afford it and while they're still around. Demand rises, prices go up. For me it's the same. They will drop the moment it really becomes expensive and more restrictive to drive around, not before.

Jack, it is like many things "financial", "swings and roundabouts", the status changes. Having said that throughout my longish life I've usually managed to turn a profit on the many cars, (60+), I've owned, bought and sold, even buying with my heart, which they say one never should do. Good subject matter.

I think you're right in the long term. One thing worth noting is that, once fuel prices are ridiculous, anyone who still wants a petrol classic will be more drawn to something like a 205 GTI than to a Mustang, for example. I'm sure it won't stop the real enthusiasts from buying and driving the car they want though!

My son is 15 and he lusts after JDM cars. Skylines, Nissan s13 , evos, Subarus. Ect And the kids driving fiesta st’s now will keep those as cherished later in life.

Great analysis - I'd had a similar conversation with a friend catorgrising the cars as aesthetic, historic, nostalgic. The latter is the most risky for all the reasons you explained (i.e. Fast Fords etc. That's not to say that the GT40 won't be valuable in the future but a Mark 1 escort Mexico/Sierra Cosworth/Focus RS? The other two categories will survive as they are genuinely capable of sustaining their prices but it's more to do with the design/engineering/provenance and like a painting by a master will sit in private collections and museums. There's also another factor to understand and that is the cost to maintain said cars which often rise above the material value. People should buy their dream and enjoy it but don't think for one moment it's an investment - that's potentially very dangerous ground.

Nice Schumacher Cat Masami you've got there! You have a bit of a vintage RC collection going. If you haven't already, you should consider doing a video on them!

I got to own a Porsche 356A 1600S coupe, a BRE equipped 510 Datsun sedan, a Mercedes 250 sedan, and a few Alfa’s over the years. I am completely priced out of ownership today but had the epiphany that I was able to own this stuff when it wasn’t fifty years old in a good time to enjoy driving and working on them. There was always a shop with experts who had a passion for the cars and some even spent time showing me how to do things myself. Clubs were pretty active and everyone from plumbers to PHD’s shared common interest in the cars. I was allowed to drive some Jaguars, Ferrari’s, and others in those days out of the kindness of friends and club members. I can’t imagine that today.

Too many speculators spoiling it for genuine enthusiasts.

I have an XK 140 I have owned for 34 yrs , the pleasure it has given me over that time means it doesn't owe me a cent.

I watched that auction with the RS500.........gone to the middle east....600k like 60quid lol

Great Video. The Fast Ford market looks like Tulip mania ! And have you noticed how many articles are in the media about another “ rare cosworth “ found in a Barn ! There is going to be a lot of money lost in this market, and people will need to blame someone else , not their own greed.

Great video, buy what you can use and enjoy first and foremost !

This video is bang on! Most investments don't require routine maintenance, insurance, and yearly registration fee's.

My view on this is simply that you're absolutely spot on. I was fortunate in being a generation ahead of you, that's to say, my motor-sport days were all about Healeys, TRs, E-Types etc.. I believe that these may suffer less in spite of me and those like me not being around for much longer, but simply the economic reality of supply and demand. As these cars fall off the twig, their parts will become valuable to the fewer models that remain until the rarity creates a value of its own, obviously, the more that were produced, the less likely it is that they'll be considered an 'investment'. In short, the simple economics of supply and demand will dictate the value of the investment.. the more valuable the car was when it came on the market, the more likely it is going to be considered a worthwhile investment.

A very good video. I completely agree with it. I see it with my boys... they are not really into cars. I think the generational aspect is the real killer. It is similar to model railroads or porcelain or what-have-you... It will happen to cars as well. Maybe not that soon, but it will happen. Also I agree, there will be cars that will be worth something, maybe even a lot. But I assume that we are already flying high in the market. We will see, time will tell. Great content - like! (also if I do not like the idea that petrolheads will be no longer around in some time - but this is the way it is, time is changing...)