What type of cam do you prefer using?

@vintagesavoiur

11 күн бұрын

Didn't the olds 442 have 308 duration cams?

@Dr_Xyzt

11 күн бұрын

The one that suits the application and combination. I'm not gonna use a cam that's 260@.050 in an LS3 with a stock intake. I also won't use an RV cam in a 540 big block that uses GM RS-X heads.

@JukkaVaan

11 күн бұрын

The one that has no lobe wiped flat

@mrfunky8843

10 күн бұрын

The one I can afford 😅

@brian6029

9 күн бұрын

The 1 that has more bottom end power.

I would really like to HEAR the engine idle with the different cams.

@Kris-mx6ju

11 күн бұрын

Agreed. How did this affect idle quality? Not important to all I would think, but to some, idle quality is a consideration

@GroovesAndLands

10 күн бұрын

And minimum steady idle RPM, and vacuum readings at minimum idle, min idle + 500rpm, min idle +1000rpm.

@The_sinner_Jim_Whitney

10 күн бұрын

Yeah, and maybe what they did to vacuum? I'm a stickshift/fun car kinda guy (not a serious racer), so it's less important to me than to some, but I would think that off-idle response, idle quality, and drivability might be what makes this decision for most folks. As always (well, at least the good ones), this episode provided me with more questions than answers.

@jedpratte

10 күн бұрын

Generally more overlap/longer duration the less vacuum and lumpier the idle

@GroovesAndLands

10 күн бұрын

@@jedpratte Yes. Which is why 3000-7000rpm dyno pulls on a Superflow as performed by Engine Masters etc can be *very* misleading to the weekend warrior guys out there. What the engine does between 500-1500rpm is super important to most people and it's 99% ignored by these tests. Not to say I don't love Engine Masters! I was just suggesting that any testing involving big cams should include: 1. Minimum steady idle RPM and vacuum reading 2. Vac reading @ min idle + 500rpm 3. Vac reading @ min idle + 1000rpm

I'm just happy to see you guys out here still making videos

I'd like to see the effects of increasing/decreasing the lobe separation angle and even bigger exhaust duration! Also, exhaust tube length will have an effect...

@shvrdavid

11 күн бұрын

The problem with that is the cost of the blanks to do so. There is a reason you can rarely find a 102 lobe separation camshafts for high flow heads, and that is because the vast majority of blanks don't support grinding it there due to pre grinding and hardening the lobes prior to final grinding, and that can't be ground there afterwards.... That is also why good camshafts for serious hp can cost north of 2k. The blanks are all custom made..... This video is comparing off the shelf cams, that get left in the dust when put up against anything with a well thought out camshaft. Case in point, 1000+hp NA small blocks, you are not ordering that cam from Summit...... Summit doesn't stock anything like that, because you cant grind it on a 10 dollar blank......

@alertgasper

9 күн бұрын

@@shvrdavid agree with you, but at 2:03 David says they are custom made camshafts, so not off the shelf.a DOHC engine design could have also been used for this test.

@shvrdavid

9 күн бұрын

@@alertgasper Custom ground is a bit different than custom made.

@alertgasper

9 күн бұрын

@@shvrdavid naw, "Custom" means "not off the shelf". Competition Cams got busted in the 1980's by their competitors for not even making their own camshafts--they bought and reboxed 'em. Whoever makes the stick, however it's the grinding of the profile that makes it worth anything. so, custom is custom because its custom.

@shvrdavid

9 күн бұрын

@@alertgasper I have ordered hundreds of custom cams, and that is not how it works..... You can not make a 100 degree centerline cam on a normal blank, it isn't possible.... Comp Cams will only make you profiles that they have in the catalog, because that is all you can grind on the blanks they don't even make..... They write a check for the blanks, from CMC Camshafts.... Ask me how I know that........ If you want a true custom cam, it is usually made from a tool steel rod, and you have to know what grind, lift, centerline, ramp rates, firing order, etc, etc, just to do the first rough in step to the core before it is re hardened, then the final grind can be done.... Nothing they use on this show is made that way, and comes out of a Summit catalog...... It is a "custom grind", that comes in a box that anyone can buy, on a CMC camshaft core, and nothing about it is custom at all... The lobe profiles are in the catalog, in the back, look for yourself... That is how it works..... But, it is not a custom core or even a custom cam.

It depends on the flow of the head. The more difference in flow you have between intake and exhaust flow. If the exhaust flow is really bad compared to the intake you need more split in duration

@nerd1000ify

10 күн бұрын

With tuned exhaust runners longer exhaust duration can also provide more scavenging.

@alertgasper

9 күн бұрын

was going to say the same. a stock Ford cylinder head, for example, had poor exhaust flow--even the Cleveland. a cam comparo may show different results only because there's room for improvement. and a good exhaust system, as nerd said, is going to "pull" more air out of the cylinder. and then there's the valve angle cut--some 3 angle jobs help air flow from off-seat to .4 lift, which helps twice (as the valve lifts, as it seats) and can create an overlap scenario as the intake closes (but flows more) and the exhaust opens (but flows more).

Excellent presentation. Thank you. This one was especially good.

@mustangstuff7213

12 күн бұрын

This

You forgot to take into account how much cooler your car sounds sitting at a stop light

@davidphillips3953

10 күн бұрын

Who cares if it's taking the talk? It only matters if it can walk the walk.

Has Engine Masters actually been canceled? If its true, I am going to be so sad. I loved my MTOD account and Engine Masters was my primary reason for keeping my subscription. (Well that and all the Roadkill versions plus Hotrod Garage)

@corystansbury

13 күн бұрын

I assume you already watch Richard Holdener?

@DavidBergquistfiero

13 күн бұрын

Yep

@Stainlessslayer

10 күн бұрын

Bought up by discovery. No new episodes yet. I was bummed when I had to get discovery+ to keep watching.

@JLC87420

7 күн бұрын

@@Stainlessslayerwhy would you purchase a peterphile network unless you are a peterphile.

Love you guys and show..keep it up.

You mentioned that all cams had the same lobe separation angle (lsa) but what was the lsa, and what was the intake lobe centerline?

One thing is clear to me. If i had any one of these cams, Im glad i didn't pay for an upgrade to any of the other two. The percentage difference is tiny. That is how it goes sometimes when you try science instead of just marketing. Awesome video.

Thanks for making this video!

I would have liked to seen the cranking compression on all 3 camshafts?

@danieldimitri6133

11 күн бұрын

They would have the same intake valve closing time. The difference wouldn't show up on cranking. The differences would be how much reversion of exhaust into the combustion chamber during overlap and how much combustion pressure is lost on the power stroke do to an early exhaust opening.

@racerd9669

10 күн бұрын

@@danieldimitri6133 You are talking theory , I want to see real world.

@davidphillips3953

10 күн бұрын

He's right it would not affect cranking compression. At cranking speed theory and reality match up, it's when explosions start happening that theory gets a lot more complicated and harder to predict.

@trailerparkcryptoking5213

8 күн бұрын

@@danieldimitri6133 opening the exhaust valve early causes some loss of combustion pressure, but it decreases pumping losses after BDC, which increases higher rpm HP. In my head it seems that opening the exhaust valve earlier in the power stroke would make the exhaust louder, what is your thought on that? My thoughts on this is if I install a cam in my Harley that opens exhaust earlier, the bike will be louder and sound nastier. I have noticed that a ProStock bike racer that has his own cam line has a very early exhaust opening on all his cams....

FYI. The producers of this show have left. Don’t expect Discovery Channel to keep these shows on.

@KingEdwardA

12 күн бұрын

Wonder why, motor trend gunna get bought out or something?

@BustedWalletGarage

12 күн бұрын

@@KingEdwardA discovery channel has already cancelled several Motor Trend shows.

@KingEdwardA

12 күн бұрын

@@BustedWalletGarage ahhh I see, unfortunate. Thank you sir

@rileylindley295

11 күн бұрын

Such a bummer…..

@markgiraldes4062

10 күн бұрын

Probably not green enough !!! 🤬💩🧳’s

Great investigative true work you all are doing. Only facts matter. This is the way to approach most things.

Love this series.

Id like to see the difference in dynamic compression. I really thought that would be a factor. My only guess on why hp went up is it might've gained some minor scavaging?

@davidphillips3953

10 күн бұрын

No difference. Dynamic compression does not change with exhaust opening and closing only intake because the exhaust timing doesn't happen on the compression stroke, only intake valve timing.

@alertgasper

9 күн бұрын

@@davidphillips3953 if it increases overlap, then it can affect scavenging and let out some of the mechanical compression available. but once the exhaust closes, then you've got a final compression ratio.

I love the door analogy for explaining duration. I may steal that one. Thank you for another great video Engine Masters crew. I do wish you laid a baseline for each with a single vs split for each cam. I want to know the difference at each level!

@Iowa599

13 күн бұрын

What if you make a system that lets you use both duration lobes in one engine, with a way to switch back&forth while the engine is running?

@markg7030

11 күн бұрын

@@Iowa599 VVT.

@nerd1000ify

10 күн бұрын

What's missing from the analogy is that the room gets kinda crowded, so if you leave the door open too long some people will walk back out. And the exhaust is a door to a nasty back alley, leave it open too long and some people who should have left will walk back in.

@reubenmorris487

10 күн бұрын

@@Iowa599 There is such a "system." Got V-TEC yo?

@Iowa599

10 күн бұрын

@@reubenmorris487 I have VTECs!

Digging the Brulee mullet! But, wondering what would be the difference between cam 1 and cam 3 if using nitrous? I think cam 3 would make a much bigger difference due to cylinder pressure

@kyliejm2

13 күн бұрын

Or maybe more to the point, greater exhaust volume due to more oxygen/fuel

@andrewmontgomery1763

12 күн бұрын

The cam that makes more power NA will then make more power with nitrous.

Love the idea of the test, but it'd be nice to see it done on a mediocre or crappy cylinder head to see how the split helps. Like on a 799 or LS3 head where the exhaust side is known to struggle

@andrewmontgomery1763

12 күн бұрын

Those are excellent heads haha I think you mean, like a stock Windsor 302 head lol

We use big spreads on sbc engines when we spray them, usually on the opening side of the ex.

A test like this would be interresting on a 4 cam engine like a ford or toyota v8, so you could see what the cams behave like with similar overlap. or timed at similar opening times.

Somebody said there's not very many 16° split cams out there. All Mopar 440 hp's have the 268 on the intake and 284 degrees duration on the exhaust with a .450 lift. Even the 440-6 pack which was a low taper had the same duration and lift and overlap as the regular 4bbl.

Would have been good to see the results with a full dual 2.5" exhaust system. Something like you would see on a typical muscle car. I think the exhaust duration would have more effect.

Dave, asking the questions over-thinking gearheads (like me) need to know.

Awesome test 🎉

❤👍🇺🇸always a great show thanks guy's

The talk with these 3 its so much interteining

Sound checks would have been cool. Great video

Intake open/close angles are the most important any camshaft.

It depends on the intake flow vs exhaust flow ratio percentage. Anything over 75% can use a single pattern camshaft. Add 1 degree exhaust duration for every 1 percent under 75%.

@krusher74

11 күн бұрын

Yes, these split cams are just masking poor exhaust flow.

@b_hall

11 күн бұрын

@@krusher74 on this video there is minimal increase in power because the engine has good aftermarket heads. Most aftermarket high performance heads have 75% i/e flow or better.

I like the Pontiac firing order sweat shirt.

@danieldimitri6133

12 күн бұрын

That's the most common v8 firing order. Fords looked different mostly because they number their cylinders differently 1=5 2=1 3=6 4=2 5=7 6=4 7=8 8=4. But the roller can Fords do have a different order similar to an ls or 4-7 3-2 swap. All the gm v8s of the same era and the chrysler v8s had the 18436572 order.

@fullnoyz7670

11 күн бұрын

Holden gm 304 firing order is 12784563

@garyszewc3339

10 күн бұрын

Pontiac, Chevy, Oldsmobile, Cadillac, Buick, Chrysler, Plymouth, Dodge, pretty much everything but Ford products. Ford numbers their cylinders 1234 on the right, and 5678 on the left.

More on camshaft lobe separation Please 🙏🏻 🙂 how about rocker arm lengths with the different lobes?

ideal ? Would be a skidoo cvt type system linking cam and crank .

Would be curious how a greater exhaust durations would effect turbo applications.

Why wouldn’t u base line this with a single pattern to start and demonstrate the full effect of longer exhaust duration?

@85bigGMC

13 күн бұрын

That’s a test he stated they’ve already done before.

@cedricwilson2055

13 күн бұрын

You can see the trend. A single pattern is going to be lower on the top end and a tad bigger or the same through the middle. No single pattern won an emc challenge

@TheFogLakeshore

10 күн бұрын

@@cedricwilson2055it’s still completely dependent on valve size porting and intake config.

@cedricwilson2055

10 күн бұрын

@@TheFogLakeshore in the emc challenge all they used was dual pattern cams. And all the heads were killer. That pumping loss must be more detrimental to hp with single pattern cams. Those few numbers through the middle, they can accept that

@ToxicConfusionZ

9 күн бұрын

They already did that test, they started this video saying that

Did you adjust ignition timing? Fuel timing? This is equivalent to putting a larger exhaust on your car but not tuning it to suit the modification, to see the best results

it should be noted that typically, stock cam will not have the same separation as the aftermarket. even a mild aftermarket cam will give longer duration and separation.

Now you have to do it again with the LSA's changed to maintain overlap for the three different exhaust durations.

Running a 277/293 227/243 on a 113 in a 398ci LS stroker with ls3 heads. Makes a ton of torque.

Camshaft specs is for specific engine performance . Drag circle and drifting all require a different camshaft specs. You can tune a car but you can’t tuna fish!

I friend of mine got a reverse split pattern, he's got 264 on the intake and 260 on the exhaust side. I am only diving into tuning and i am curious how this reverse split pattern affects engine performance.

*i'd like to see a video on 4 pattern cams.*

I think you would see more difference with exhaust duration if you were running manifolds and full exhaust. A relatively unrestricted exhaust isn't going to need more duration or lift on it.

@cedricwilson2055

13 күн бұрын

You forget scavenging and wave resonance. May be down on power no matter the split or little hp gain

Would be interesting to see the effect of an increased LSA with increased duration ie. open point stays the same, but close point is later.

I would love to see the 3rd cam what's the most exhaust duration receive a higher ratio rocker arm

This is why you just use a modern engine with variable cam timing on both the inlet and exhaust camshafts. Mercury make a quad-cam big block Chebby motor, right? Does that have VCT?

I wonder how this test would go for an engine with a poor intake/exhaust ratio, like on some small block Fords I've seen with 2.02/1.46 valves? Would there be a benefit on a head with, say, a .72 ratio?

I always appreciate your testing and info....What might have been better would be to test a cyl. head with a bad exhaust flow, more for a street deal....

The results can be very similar by switching rocker ratios on the intake and exhaust, a tuning thing.

The Camshaft is the Brain of an Engine, it tells the Engine when to breathe, how much to breathe. How long to hold it's breath and when to exhale. The Oil Pump is the ''Heart'', it pumps the Oil through the Engine.

@HighrSelf

12 күн бұрын

I always believed the "ENGINE BUILDER" is the heart ❤ of any build! No?

@aaronliddell4280

11 күн бұрын

Guess heads are the lungs then 🤷🏻‍♂️

@OxBlitzkriegxO

11 күн бұрын

Thank you AI chat bot. We would've never figured that out for ourselves.

@P71ScrewHead

10 күн бұрын

@@aaronliddell4280 Yes..

@ralekriver

9 күн бұрын

@@HighrSelf No. The Engine Builder is "God" :D :D :D

Isn't it the increased overlap that contributes to the top end charge rather than, as Mr F suggested, giving a boost to mid range torque?

how would this effect turbos?

The crank seems more like the heart of an engine. The camshaft is probably the brain.

That good test now yall need do same everything just changing intake.

So, it seems the differences are quite small for anything but track only engines. I wonder what would change if you ran the same test, but with changing the lift instead?

Very interesting, eapecially as i have a 478 planned for my first gen Camaro,albiet at a more pump gas friendly 10.5:1.👍

@krusher74

11 күн бұрын

this is all dependant on the exhaust to inlet flow ratios.

Valve timing is expressed in degrees, but the actual amount of time the valve is open is what really matters (up top). Sadly it's inverse with rpm - the faster the crank spins the less time the valve is open.

@shotamakarashvili3714

8 күн бұрын

That's where vtec is shining))

Ehh, would have liked to see the opening point be the only thing that changes duration. Actually, yeah, stock amounts of valve overlap, change other things, for ease of EFI tuning. Closed loop O2 readings and all that. I've heard you'll get a very lean O2 reading, at least at lower RPMS, with lots of overlap.

ONLY 478 cubic inches and 12.5 compression ...LOL

@Demoralized88

5 күн бұрын

It's insane how out of touch and lacking self awareness some people are.

Anybody else notice they use the same audio for every Dyno?

Are those the advertised duration numbers or the at 0.050 duration numbers?

Just a guess, but I think the difference in the cams would be more noticeable with exhaust manifolds vs headers or a more restrictive exhaust.

@krusher74

11 күн бұрын

yes, its always be a crutch mod for a poor flowing exhaust.

Id want to see an increase in exhaust direction without changing the lsa. Keep the ex valve opening event the same just more duration. This way is adding too much overlap as you add duration.

Why not using a typical street engine 330 - 400 cid, why a 477 cid???

Heads determine what camshaft you use Holman Moody heads you never use more duration on exhaust side. Stock heads have low exhaust flow rates .

More exhaust duration is kinda a ls thing ls3 head for example flow really good on intake side but suffer on exhaust side so maybe a ls3 would benefit from the longer exhaust duration making up for such small exhaust flow

@krusher74

11 күн бұрын

or just some exhaust porting.

It could be argued that the narrower duration separation is better, giving more low-end torque, allowing for similar or same ET's with longer engine life. RPMs are the enemy of longevity. The true test would trying it in a car, unfortunately adding more variables.

Anyone know how we can get the latest roadkill in the UK? Discovery plus only has up to season 9 😢

@jhobbs6953

13 күн бұрын

It should be all be on hbo max but you may need a vpn if you’re in the uk

@Zedsdead83

13 күн бұрын

Seems like a stupid business model stoping people from being able to pay/see these shows. I dont get it.

I love this show but it needs more engine variety!

@Santor-

11 күн бұрын

Yeah, throw some kia engines in there!

@ricepony33

11 күн бұрын

@@Santor- 30psi gate pressure seems like a good place to start ;)

The engine is the heart, the cam shaft is the brain

@Warrior_Resisting_Colonialism

10 күн бұрын

The oil pump is the heart. The engine would be the skeleton.

Why would you run a bigger lobes on exhaust and not the intake?

Can you just change the Lifters on the exhaust side to 1.6 if your running 1.5’s??If just changing exhaust side lifters to 1.6 will that change sound of the engine like a dual pattern??If going to a 1.6 rocker on exhaust side with this be to much of a split?

@monikhushalpuri

10 күн бұрын

Just search on google "running bigger roller rockers on exhaust forum" and you'll find your answer

Isn't the Atkinson cycle an earlier, longer duration intake? What about that?

Just changing exhaust camshaft isn't going to give much of the gain- it has to be a few other changes as well. You want to increase CR, install oversized intake valve and only then increase exhaust cam duration.

Where is the baseline versus final overlay?

deep in shallow out with a sliver of no overlap

question . why only the exhaust valves were modified, if the volume of air entered remains the same, it is not a loss to modify only the duration of the exhaust, can you test what happens if you modify the duration of the intake and leave it unchanged on the exhaust?

@krusher74

11 күн бұрын

The exhaust is the restriction, so letting more air in with more duration isn't going to help.

@calibra690v2

11 күн бұрын

a ok, I understood, thanks for the info

Depends on the engine design

A camshaft calculator to know overlap would help know why this is happening since overlap can lose some compression

Just me or did I miss the intake to exhaust valve diameter ratio?

This is where the Konegseigggeeg free valve tech would shine.

@krusher74

11 күн бұрын

Being years since its invention, it looks to be a non viable concept for some reason. Its a shame, with an optimizing self learning program the ICE could have got some nice gains.

I don't know. To me, given the torque is in the 600s and hp in the 700s, I don't think there's a statistically significant change between the first and second cams. Those curves, for all intents and purposes, are identical.

I would like to put this engine in my old C10.

Nothing on this channel brings the massive number of views like Roadworthy Rescues.

you had me at " duration" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

I feel like the longer exhaust duration would reduce turbo lag, perhaps?

@blkcoupequattro

10 күн бұрын

You actually want a pretty mild cam for turbo engines unless your compression ratio is really high, and your running E84 or other high octane fuels to suppress knocking.

I'm wondering how this would perform in a turbo application.

@krusher74

11 күн бұрын

turbo camshafts arnt design like this, so it would be suboptimum.

Wouldn't it be cool if two camshafts went flat?

Just out of interest guys, how long does it take 3 VERY experienced engine builders to change a camshaft? This would be the perfect benchmark.

These videos would be so much more fun if we could hear a big choppy idle

What’s happening for viewers in the U.K?

Now i wana see 5he same test on a turbo engine

Do one on lobe seperation, 115, 110 105.

@thomasward4505

10 күн бұрын

Already has been done

i wonder how it would effect a turbo.

What where the compression #?

@NZMOPAR

13 күн бұрын

12.5

@r000tbeer

13 күн бұрын

8:06

I'm pretty sure we all knew the outcome. NOW TRY THIS WITH DIFFERENT LSA'S & the same splits. The results will likely be more prominent. Yes it does require a lot more camshafts. Thus it will probably never get done.

I have a 318 with stock heads. The exhaust valves are small. I'm thinking that s is exactly what I need

@jonathoncouchey7151

12 күн бұрын

Something on a 107 lobe center (lsa). 260-270 total 220@50. Duration and .450 - .470 lift.

Now run 3 cams with the same duration but with different lifts.

I’m using comp cams part # 35-226-3 280H hydraulic flat tappet cam 230 duration at 50 .512 lift intake and exhaust moster torque from 2,000 to 5,000 rpm been using this cam for many many years in my 351W builds I’ve only flatten one cam ever

@boingkster

13 күн бұрын

Very similar to the Elgin E-907-P I liked to use in Clevelands - .505 lift and 220@50 duration. Very mild, monster torque up to 5000rpm and awesome on the street.

@cedricwilson2055

13 күн бұрын

Modern lobe should make more hp and torque