I have been reenacting British for quite a few years and have never had a problem using an original water bottle. Prior to use, I thoroughly cleaned it out with a vinegar solution, followed by a baking soda solution (to neutralize any residual vinegar) and then several rinses of hot water. I also used a wire brush on the metal parts of the cork stopper and after removing all the rust, I coated the metal with a food safe epoxy to prevent future rusting. After use, I empty the bottle and leave it uncorked out in the sun to dry. As I said earlier, my water has never given me a problem and has always stayed clear.

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the info and advice, hopefully viewers will find this useful!

@tobiasbourne9073

3 жыл бұрын

Mine is original and has a bit of rust in it but as you said, tastes completely fine.

Great bits of kit. Having worked on archaeological excavations in several hot countries over the past three decades I always carried one of these bottles, mine being a 1944 marked job with a solid canvas cover, rather than the cross-straps version, and the water remained fresh and very much cooler than in any plastic container. I'm also an ex-serviceman (early 80's), so have experience of the '58 pattern bottle, and there's no way I'd choose one of those things over it's ubiquitous enameled metal predecessor, that's for sure. Sometimes the old ways really are the best.

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

Interesting to hear, thanks for the anecdote!

This reminds me of the film "ice cold in Alex " the canteens were almost cast members they featured so much, damned good film.

@RiflemanMoore

4 жыл бұрын

Absolutely, of it's time but definitely a good one!

Just watched those Nation Army Museum videos; I completely agree with you Simon!

@RiflemanMoore

3 жыл бұрын

It's a shame as it was a good idea, just poorly executed.

My water bottle from 37 pattern issue always used to taste odd, but brown tepid liquid hmmmmm..... I think the taste I had was probably because of the cork. It may have been the inner liner was breaking down for some reason. (just noticed somebody else mentioning that type of thing) We had sterilising tablets when out in the Ooloo as well for running water from streams & rivers ...my dad used to say get the water after it's been running over stones...... (that was when I was in the cadets in the mid 60s to 1971) Sad to hear about the presentations being dodgy in the National Army Museum like you, one would have thought they could get this almost perfect.

@phantom12321800

5 жыл бұрын

most likely the cork. I have had them make it a bit funky after a day or so. I replace the cork now and then. Always dry them out. I get less concerned about the rust though than Simon.

@rockywr

5 жыл бұрын

@@phantom12321800 Just like wine bottles and your wine is 'corked' that's why the lay them down flat so that some of the liquid is always touching the cork so it keeps it's pressure up. Might have been a thought with older water bottles, have a horizontal one instead of vertical hah!...

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

Rust will colour the water, it doesn't make it undrinkable. However if left damp it can provide a medium for bacterial growth, whether it would be anything particularly nasty to humans I don't know! That's only really an issue for those of us using them occasionally rather than always carrying a full or near-full waterbottle.

@phantom12321800

5 жыл бұрын

@@RiflemanMoore right. I've only ever seen those problems with the seasonal use and periods of storage that well exceed a few days. Regardless the idea that water just turns fetid "because war" is dumb and I can't help but wonder what museum staff are grinding their teeth at these videos but don't have the clout to intercede

The bottles, like the mugs, are vitreous enamel. It's powdered glass melted onto the steel. Chipping could be an issue for a piece of combat equipment, as there would be shards of glass in the bottle should a dent shatter the enamel inside the bottle. Does that really happen under usual conditions, no, not really? At the end of the day it's a glass surface and can be sterilized, not that a little rust would harm you. In the blood, yes, swallowing it into stomach acid, no, there would have to be something very unusual growining in the bottle to upset your stomach.

@longrider42

2 ай бұрын

After all, your blood is red because it is iron based, right? :)

I had one when I was in cadets in the eighties, still have it. I've seen them with cork, rubber and wooden tops. Have an unissued one made by NEECO in Wellington NZ which has a wooden top. Cork a bit hard to get down here in wartime.

Re-enacting Brittish for around 8-10 yrs now and always drinking from oroginal water bottle w/o any problems. Just for the first time give it a good wash and once a year I use half a litre of water with few drops of iodine solution to wash it. Rusty screw on a cork stop isn´t a serious problem...

Love your videos mate 🤙, I'm from NZ and wanting to reenact and collect nz army items around Vietnam and during the 1970s/80s/90 👍

I used the enamelled water bottle for many years when in the air cadets. Yes, the cork and metal fittings deteriorated as described. I found the main problem was removing the bottle from the carrier-a very tight fit and, impossible whilst on the March. Also, you had to be careful not to ram the cork in too hard (as illustrated in the video). When it got wet, a pair of pliers would be needed to remove it. You could die of thirst before you got it out. When in the army reserve, I got 2 US water bottles and carriers from a friend and carried both of them on the belt. The water bottles were plastic and were easily removed from the carrier even whilst mobile. The British canteen had a felt cover, whilst the US canteen cover had a woolly Liner. Not many people realised the practical design of both these canteen systems. When filling both bottles with cold water, the idea was to also soak both felt/woolly jackets. Kept the water much colder for longer. We went some way to copying the US canteen system with the 58 pattern water bottle but messed up on the canteen carrier. Mine issued in the early 80’s had a thin strap and buckle closure rather than a stud fastening. When your hands were cold, virtually impossible to open and close. Also, the thin strap when wet swelled and ditto result. Troops have always found ways to custom their way around inherent design failures. After all, we were UK forces!

Hey, I like Hard Water. Nothing wrong with a bit of Iron in your water :) Yes, I have a 1937 water bottle. No date on it. But it came in a sleeve style carrier, marked P.S.S Government arrow, dated 1944, and I think its enameled green? Hard for me to tell. Yes the eye bolt holding the cork is a tad rusty, but hey, its just rust, and its not flaking :) Plus it does not touch the water. Its a good bottle.

From what I remember the felt when wet will act as a cooking jacket and keeps the water cool I've used mine meant times and it's never really been undrinkable .. I've also used it full of red wine drunk over five day period . Keep the felt wet it cools it down . I think they are very goo for there design...love your vids.

@RiflemanMoore

4 жыл бұрын

Many thanks for the kind words!

Thanks for sharing, great information

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed!

Well done! very informative and interesting.

@RiflemanMoore

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks, glad you found it so.

Great video. There is no doubt a lot of misinformation out there. I always wondered if the British enabled canteens had the same issue the us ones did. Glad to hear they didn’t. The US WWII enameled canteens were recalled and only issued to non combatant or stateside troops since the enamel, both inside and out, would chip and contaminate the water. Since the enamel would chip, it would expose the low quality steel which would rust and turn the water brown. I write from experience as I’ve cleaned out some of the US enameled ones and the water can be murky brown even after 5 or so cleanings. Wonder if the museum misattributed the US canteen’s failings to the British. Great content 👍

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

British bottles certainly didn't suffer to the same degree certainly, in that the US enmelled canteens were bare and had the added issue of the nesting cup and bottle inviting the finish to be damaged. Many thanks for the kind words, glad you enjoyed!

@josephburton8161

5 жыл бұрын

@@RiflemanMoore Good point. I forgot to mention that the US Canteen carrier with its two lift a dot snaps contributed to a lot of the damage as well. Looking forward to your continued content.

Like any container. Keep it clean using any bottle cleaner. The original cleaning tin comes with 2 types of tab. One is to clean the bottle and the other tab is to remove the taste of the first tab.

@RiflemanMoore

4 жыл бұрын

True indeed but what you're refering to iis not a cleaning tin, it's to purify the water, it doesn't clean the bottle.

If gets dented it, replace the bottle even if the seams hold ......it is u/s . The stopper is likely to rust if it is not the type that uses Aluminium fittings.... this you can regulate against.

a bit of rust ain't gonna kill ya

Wetting the woolfelt also keeps the water cooler through evaporative cooling

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

Indeed so.

Interesting, when I started work at 15 in 1967 ( yes you could start at 15 then !! ) I purchased from Millets a British water bottle as shown on the video I think mine was ex surplus from the 50's no WW11 and brand new, I was told by a number of ex servicemen from WW11 and National service not to use because if banged about ( which you expect during WW11 ) that the finish inside the bottle would break down and cause rust issues, I carried on using ( well I was 15 what do you expect !! ) but the metal screw holding the cork did soon rust ! At the time the Swedish water bottle which was a copy of the US bottle in Aluminum was a better bet !! take care

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

Absolutely so, the British Army had introduced an aluminium example just before the outbreak of WW2 but they were withdrawn due to a shortage of the raw material and enamel returned. As I say in the video enamel is fine, provided it's not chipped, which is obviously a problem in combat.

I wonder if many people would keep the water cool by evaporation, by wetting the cloth covering.

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

I'm not sure how common this was but it's certainly possible to do.

Great video again. Recently visited national army museum after its refurb. Some of the information is very poor and lazily presented. Seems a shame

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed, sad to hear the NAM has gone that way. I will have to visit at some point regardless.

@michaelamos4651

5 жыл бұрын

@@RiflemanMoore Cheers .Was always one of my favourite museums

I recently bought a ww1 or ww2 bottle, I wondered what the colour says about the bottle, and how you age it, including the base, wether it’s flush or inset

@RiflemanMoore

4 жыл бұрын

There is some useful information on these on Karkee Web which might provide some insight www.karkeeweb.com/patterns/1908/1908_associated_bottles.html www.karkeeweb.com/patterns/1937/1937_associated_equipment_other.html#vii

Since I've gone and forgotten again, what was it you said might work to make my corroded aluminium canteens safe? It's very disappointing to see a museum sharing misinformation. I can only assume it was something the re-enactor had heard and was repeating without checking it's accuracy.

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

I can't remember now Dean, was it Allen who suggested something or definitely me!?

@longrider42

2 ай бұрын

I know its a tad late. But get that stuff you put in Rock Tumbler type polishers, and just sit in front of your computer with something fun to watch. and just keep shaking it. Fine sand would also work. Just keep it dry.

theres another vid from same museum where a chelsea vet says they got one bottle per 24hrs and not to drink from it as they would sweat and get prickly heat maybe they should ask vets first?

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

Maybe so! That was a thing in the tropics during the WW2, such enforced water discipline was actually a very bad idea.

Do you have any recommendations for a repro enemal canteen? I've looked at originals, and most within my price range are in dismal repair. And I would feel dreadful if I bought a legitimate, near collector quality condition, and beat it up through use.

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

I'm not sure to be honest, I know Soldier of Fortune make them but advise against drinking from them!

@blackore64

3 жыл бұрын

@@RiflemanMoore Just got Soldier of Fortune's mark VI canteen, and it was only emaneled on the outside, and the inside was just Galvanized.

I know this vid is years old, but I have to comment. Soldiers will moan about anything. This water bottle was never moaned about much that I can tell, bar its weight having to carry it, and all the other stuff that had to be carried. It at least was a good size, and carried more than most other country's designs. Most moaning goes for the lack of water. Put good tasting water in and good tasting water comes out. Steel, aluminium, and plastics all add their own particular taste. Red brown water is common in Africa and Asia. Its the very fine red brown soil particles that take an age to settle out, and nye impossible to filter out. North African campaign in certain oasis's there was oil leakage from the ground into wells. Petrol tasting water is yuck, and both sides blamed each other for it, though neither were at fault. For military operations water is a major concern and important. Its always been that way. Some theatres of war water was of such tactical importance that it dictated the outcome as much as ammunition, if not more. Lastly, everyone's digestion system has to climatize to different water when traveling. Why getting the squits is common. Not just the bugs in the water but the trace elements. Boiling water is always a help. British Tea uses boiled water and improves taste; not so mad after all.

Are these save to drink from? I think c j campbell made a video about them and he said that the enamel contains lead.

@lolzman228

5 жыл бұрын

I think he refers to a lead soldier under the enamel. Shouldn't be an issue unless the enamel is disrupted on the inside some. My suggestion is, if you have a water bottle, fill it with water and let it sit for a while before pouring into a clear container. If it comes out like water you're probably ok. If it looks like Gatorade probably hold off

@historicmilitaria1944

5 жыл бұрын

hi, personally I would not recommend anyone drink from a WW1/WW2 post war WW2 lookeylikey 70 year old british waterbottle, primarily because both the inside and out are painted in a lead based enamel paint, waterbottles in natural alloy, like a WW2 USA, WW2 German or british 44 patt,bottle all being unpainted, are safe as long as they are boiled in hot water to sterilize them , I would suggest any ww2 British reenactor would be better investing in a modern repro of the ww2 painted bottle as the modern paint would be more user friendly...I reckon after time the water, however fresh it is when its put into the enamel ww2 bottle will at some point react with the old enamel, during ww2 until the advent of the 44 patt alloy bottle, this is all we had, before we knew the dangers of lead based paint., if the ww2 enamel bottle has its felt cover theres no way youre going to know if the inside is chipped, the only way youre going to find out if its damaged is to strip off the felt cover...which no one wants to do to an old bottle...and examine the naked bottle for any dints and damage.....this is a really good video with good info, but I suggest if youre going to drink out of one...buy a repro.

@sander7165

5 жыл бұрын

@@historicmilitaria1944 thank you very much!

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

Interested to know where did you learn it's a lead-based paint type finish CJ? As far as I'm aware the enamelling on these bottles is carried out as it is for other enamelware such as mugs, dishes, plates etc. That is a porcelain or glass-like finish fused onto the raw steel. I believe it's termed vitreous enamelling, it's not a coating of enamel paint.

@historicmilitaria1944

5 жыл бұрын

hi, I saw it somewhere when I was researching various gas mask filters a while ago, I don't think its applied in the same way as the mugs, plates as the paint on the waterbottles tend to flake easily on the raised stress side of an indentation

I heard the waterbottle were lead lined

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

Really? Wow.

Well from personal experience i can say i much prefer a plastic US-style of bottle over any metal bottle, for some reason i don't think the water tastes any good. Also plastic bottles don't become too hot or too cold depending on climate.

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

I'd personally prefer water from enamel than plastic, the water in an enamelled bottle never touches the metal, provided there are no chips, it's equivalent to keeping water in a glass bottle, or porcelain dish, essentially. Plastic is more likely to bleed chemicals and give the water an odd taste. That said enamel is easily chipped so in terms of military technology there can be no doubt why it rightly fell out of use. I would prefer plastic over bare aluminium or stainless steel however.

@Thomachi

5 жыл бұрын

@@RiflemanMoore Guess i had a really good plastic bootle during my time in the military then, never had an off-taste at all! Although i haven't tried a lot of metal bottles out so i guess it isn't fair for me to judge them all. But in sub-zero temperatures a plastic bottle is a must, you don't want your lips to freeze to the metal!

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

I was going to say I'm speaking in generalisations here!

@Thomachi

5 жыл бұрын

@@RiflemanMoore Yea i got you, mate ;) just a few fun anecdotes from my time freezing my buttocks off in the arctic!

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

I can imagine the benefits of plastic there!

Perhaps the water quality at the time of the first war was not very good your using water from a modern system that didn't exist back then not that I'm completely convinced the water would go that bad so quick but I've never drank water from that time so maybe it did go bad quickly.

@RiflemanMoore

4 жыл бұрын

As far as I know great efforts were made to provide men with fresh water but regardless, as I say in the video; if you put bad water in you'll get bad water out. Fresh water won't turn brown just from being in an enamelled bottle on a hot day.

@andrewaustin6369

4 жыл бұрын

@@RiflemanMoore Yes it's true they made every effort to get fresh potable water it wasn't always possible I've spoken to a few veterans who said the source wasn't always the best and it was just like today you judge on your worst experience i think it was just them days for want of better words