I had it in my head that I never wanted a 14" kick. Until I got one. And there's nothing like a 24"x14" Huge, punchy and quick without being as unwieldy as a 26". 26" feels like you're playing a 1980's waterbed mattress. And the key to the larger sizes coming alive is tightening your reso more than you would think and suddenly the walls start to shake.

@drumdotpizza

7 ай бұрын

My absolute favorite bass drum is my Ludwig (heavy 6-ply late 70s shell) 24x14. I can make that drum as defined and articulate or open/boomy, off-the-chain as I want with tuning, muffling and miking/processing. It's my desert island kick. I also love my 26" as well (1969, 3-ply Ludwig, natural interior -- converted marching bass drum), and yes, you gotta tune those heads up on drums with that much real estate, but the 'boom' is tremendous!!

@Clone285051

7 ай бұрын

Can not agree more. I’ve a Lignum birch stave kit with a 24”x14” bassdrum and a 20”x14” bassdrum/floortom … the 24” is the best bassdrum I EVER heard !

@fepatton

7 ай бұрын

So true! My 40-year-old Slingerland kit has two 24x14" bass drums. When I first set it up in my high school band room, the other drummer said, "Wow, these sound like thunder!" They still do, and I've never felt the need to buy another kit. 😄

@flanger001

7 ай бұрын

I’ve wanted a 24x14 forever! It’s gonna happen sometime!

@scottlowell493

7 ай бұрын

@@drumdotpizza I had a kit with two of those 24x14". Thermogloss natural maple. They sounded great with just about any drumhead.

I like the 14. To my ear the 18 sounded deeper but the sound was less "cohesive" than the 14. I ran each section through RTA software with averaging to compare. It appears the 18 has a prominent peak at 43Hz that's 4dB higher than the 14 but from there the output drops like a rock. They both have the same output at 30Hz but at 20Hz, the 14 has 8dB more output but I don't think I heard that through the headphones. Overall the 14 has a smoother response.

@nicoeleich

7 ай бұрын

I was about to do the same .. hahaha you just saved me an hour at least...

Wow this was a real eye opener for me! What strikes me the most is the way the 14" kick drum feels a lot tighter and more controlled...the 18" feels almost flabby in comparison. I believe the 18" has extra sustain, but its the sort of sustain I always try to get rid of in my mixes anyway! It just muddies everything. Appreciate this!

@dimoscondos

6 ай бұрын

please red my comment. cheers

Im not a drummer but as an engineer I track a lot of drums. To this date some of the most powerful drums I’ve ever recorded was a DW Frequent Flier kit my buddy had. I wanna say it’s a 20 x 12 kick, 5 x 14 snare and 12 and 14 inch Tom’s. Skin heads with a monster of a player and these little drums sounded absolutely GIGANTIC. To this day I don’t see a need for bigger drums in the studio unless a band specifically wants them, I still think about that kit often. Man I gotta get that guy back in the studio.

@jchapman1605

5 ай бұрын

Big difference in the studio than on stage. Big drums can be too much for small rooms and mics

@bassplate

4 ай бұрын

Not surprising that smaller drums can be recorded in a way that makes them seem more powerful in the mix. Mic'd and mixed sounds are all relative in ways that the engineer decides. Session great Gary Novak said that he would sometimes use a smaller stick in his left hand (for the backbeat) because the smaller stick made the snare drum sound relatively large on tape. And Todd Sucherman has talked about adjusting the amount of power he uses to hit the drums in the studio because it changes the sound.

@LowKey657

4 ай бұрын

Give him a call. You will be glad you did. haha

@kellyb0279

2 ай бұрын

Iv got the flyer kit and I sold my higher end dw to keep it. Best kit iv had and the bass drum is so punchy for the size. Also yes it's a 20x12 12x8 14x11

@zmogusGiedriusS.

Ай бұрын

​@@kellyb0279Hello,please tell me what drumheads do you use on frequent flyer kit?Thank's in advance

Made it to the end! And I recently had Zoog trim down my 20x22 to a 14x22 and the difference was night and day. It's easier to tune, The rebound and feel is much more tighter, the thump is more defined and I also gained 6 inches of room back. So it's a win all around. 14 is where it's at.

@drumdotpizza

7 ай бұрын

Long live Jon Zoog!!! So cool to hear about that, thanks for sharing. And yes, the added room in your vehicle is a bonus!! 😁

@David-vu7zy

2 ай бұрын

Jon Zoog is great guy and done quite a bit of work for me

This is gold. I didn't expect to like the shallower one. I'd say it's a lot more focused and firm and still has a big low end.

I've been using an 18x16 in kick drum in studio and rock setting for the last 8 years. people always laugh at my little drum set until I mic the thing up and the kick is like a howitzer. I played a 24x16 inch kick for years before making the switch to the small kit and never looked back. I've used the same kit on three different records and 100's of live shows. One of the advantages of small kicks in the fact that it cuts a bit of the bass out and gets it out of the way of the actual bass player in a mix which is what your engineer would typically do anyway so I count that as a plus as well. Great Video! I'm in the market for a new kit so I may just get my next kick with a 20x14.

I gotta say, the difference is much more drastic than I expected. Wow. I too have moved away from 18" kicks to 16" and 14" kicks over the past few years, primarily because the feel better under foot to me, but I didn't realize how much the depth affected the sound! Awesome video, man, thanks for that.

I love the approach that you take when testing. I have been playing for 58 years, and have played several brands of drum sets and sizes of kicks. I always came back to 14" depth bass drums. The last kit that I bought, after being allowed to A-B test several sets, has a 20" kick. As purchased, the kick was a 16" depth and is my favorite bass that I ever owned. It's punchy and authoritative, and super easy to mic up, and works with big band music as well as trio/quartet stuff unmiked. For years I've wanted to have it cut down to 14" depth, but at this stage the cost is not worth the return. I totally love and appreciate what you do and how you do it! Keep it coming! Thank you.

@drumdotpizza

7 ай бұрын

Thank you for the kind words! Yes, 20" drums are quite versatile... head selection and tuning can make them surprisingly 'BIG' sounding! Much easier to carry around too!! Thank you so much for being here and sharing!!

@nohaste4me

7 ай бұрын

Wow 58 years! Respect !! i just past 40 years

I hope you do an episode like this on the depth of toms. Not just how the depth of say, a 14" diameter tom would sound if it were 10" deep vs 12" deep, but also why we accept a different depth to diameter ratio for rack toms vs floor toms. I'd think to match a 14" x 10", your 16" floor tom would be 16" x 11.5".

@drumdotpizza

7 ай бұрын

You're speaking to a kindred spirit! I have long wondered about the role consistent ratio plays in tom sizes. Floor toms were always (traditionally) so much deeper with respect to rack toms, and I personally struggle more with getting great tones from a 16x16 floor tom than I do any traditional depth rack tom. The 10/12/14 toms that came with the kick I used in this video are going to be the subject of an upcoming video. I have had Zoog cut them down to shallow depths (with similar ratios). I can't do a before/after, since I have already cut the shells down, but I'm wanting to see how shallow toms behave, overall... just generally put them through multiple tunings and muffling to see what they're like. I probably should have done a before/after, but too late now. Would have been a terribly long video if I had anyway, as I plan to do a lot with them as is. Hopefully that will be useful and interesting to folks.

@plexibreath

7 ай бұрын

@@drumdotpizza I look forward to watching that episode.

@JustinLouthianDrums

7 ай бұрын

I have a few “short stack” toms and I’ve found that they’re more punchy and seem to sustain a little longer. They also seem to have a quicker response, as well as a fuller sound at lower volumes compared to traditional depths. Great video! Cheers!

@fredbowers2300

6 ай бұрын

Lol, DIGITAL DRUMS , THATS THE ONLY WAY !

As I understand it (and could be wrong), the 14" depth for bass drums was selected because it would fit through the doors of closets (40s, 50s 60s) homes for storage. The drum industry is driven a bit like the fashion industry where it periodically pushes a new trend to make their older designs appear outdated and drive new purchases (the old saying no change, no gain). Anyway thanks for this is a great comparison.

@drumdotpizza

2 ай бұрын

I had no idea. Interesting!!! Thank you for sharing.

I made it to the end Joel! I worked for a top drum maker/ tech/ repairman for a couple years, and he sold me on the 14"depth, especially the crazy big sound of a 20x14. But, it was nice to hear the difference in your video for reality. The only weird one I have is a 20x18 Sonor Prolite. It doesn't have the same command like you said, but it has kind of a cool buah sound with pillows inside and a sheep looking felt beater for a quiet sound. Myore stylistic that actual good sound. I played a monster 1990 Yamaha Rock Tour Custom for almost 30 years with square sizes and (2) 24x18's ... wouldn't go back.

The 18” depth lowered the sub frequencies by a whole step. Not sure if it’s worth it though since I usually prefer the playability and the portability of the 14” depth. Maybe 16” depth is the way to go!

@squidcaps4308

7 ай бұрын

They can also be a pain for us sound engineers, deeper kicks can easily muddy up the whole bottom end. Tighter sound is easier to control, there is less ringing and we can use more compression to dig out the snappiness without having that long reverberated tail. The lack of low end is not a problem, by far most often i have deep, deep cuts in the low end in the kick channel. Of course, it can be too short or there is no meat on the bones, so to speak but tighter kicks are better if there is decent PA. In very small stages, where kicks are not miced.. i would go with the biggest one you got.

@ZackMester

7 ай бұрын

@@squidcaps4308makes sense to me. That seems to line up with Joel’s analysis that the wood type is not affecting the sound that much in the studio due to all the coloration from the mics and processing. I heard the notion, from the Bob Gatzen drum tuning videos, that quieter drums such as birch were more desirable in the studio but now I’m not so sure. It seems like heads and damping, then micing and processing have the largest effect. Extra low sub frequencies could always be added in with EQ or created with a pitch shifter if desired like AC/DC did with their snare drum.

Made it to the end.. I can't believe the results. What I get out of this experiment is that tonal wise the diameter changes that the most.. the depth changes the length of the note or sustain. The 18" depth has a clear sustain of the note and hangs around a bit longer while the 14" note hits and is gone much faster resulting in a much harder thump if you will.. interesting stuff. I think my 22"x16" is the perfect blend of these 2 aspects of a kick drum sound to my ears. Thanks for the effort sir.

@Stoovey24

7 ай бұрын

Now I wish he had done 18", 16", and 14". 16" is likely to be a good blend of the best qualities of the 14" and the 18".

@ciroformenton

6 ай бұрын

​@@Stoovey24 totally agree

I accidentally got my first 14” deep kick a while back. I acquired a vintage Ludwig 5 piece. 22x14-12-13-16. My first kit was a granitone interior 80’s rocker with power Tom sizes. Once I got the bug to buy my first kit again, I found a white one with the shallow bass drum. It will knock the breath out of you with attack

I got to the end, Joel! This is nothing new to me, but it feels cool to have someone validate what I felt to be true. My son plays a 14x22 Ludwig single lug/duel tension Combo kick. Sounds awesome when compared to my 16x22 Pearl Export. Someone said it has something to do with how much air we're pushing: Takes more force to move more air. Something like that.

Fantastic job on this! I really appreciate your attention to detail and accounting for all of the potential variables. Would love to have heard the kick with individual hits in addition to the context of the grooves but still, this was great. Cheers! -Ben

This was yet another great and necessary addition to the collective knowledge of the drum world - thanks for the video. On a side note, Yamaha actually offers a travel version of their Stage Custom (the "hip" version) which is shortened to 10 or 12", but still maintains the normal diameter, and apart from being a stage custom, it's been greatly received. Also: I got to the end

Great timing! Was discussing cutting my kick with my local drum repair guy

I've played 14", 16" and 18" deep bass drums, and I really love my 14" deep bass drum the most. Having said that... my 22x18"bass drum also sounds and feels amazing. I'm afraid to cut it down! The old catalog pages and ads took me BACK! Great video man.

@drumdotpizza

7 ай бұрын

Don't cut down anything you already love... if it ain't broke don't fix it! 😀

Great A/B test! Also worthy to note the deeper kick drum picks up a lot more of the low-tuned snare drum. I’ve noticed this live with my mic’ed 22x18. Sometimes resonates with the bass guitar to the point of LF feedback. Another benefit - the shallower kick drum makes the whole kit sound tighter.

Eight-lug 22" drums sound great! I know there's a cachet associated with more lugs (because of the added cost), but eight is probably better on a 22" drum for most styles of music (except perhaps really fast metal where a harder, tighter sound is needed). This video is so helpful because you control for variables like room sound and mic'ing. It's exactly the type of content that helps drummers make gear decisions. Thanks!

Couldn't agree more. After a decades -long hiatus from drumming, a year ago I bought a new Gretsch Renown 2 kit with 10(?) and 12" rack toms, 14 & 16 floors and an 18(!)x22" bass drum. Could never get the bass drum sounding good to my ear or feeling right to my foot. Cut a 12" hole in the batter, which improved the foot feel and sound significantly, but still ended up buying a 14x20" vintage 1960s Gretsch round badge bass drum. Set both bass drums up for realtime blind sound comparison and OH MY GOODNESS!! The 20 sounded SO MUCH louder, bigger, deeper AND and punchier! I also swapped the 7x10" rack tom for a 9x13" (sooo much better!). Was initially afraid the acoustic balance would be off with the bigger rack tom combo, but it's perfection. I may add the 10 to have 3 rack toms later, but like I mentioned, I'm coming backvto drumming after a very long time away, so I'm trying to keep it simple. Thanks for your video; it's further confirmation if my experience! Now I just need to make up my mind whether sell that 18x22 (who wants to lug that monster around on gigs??) or have the excess 4" cut off like you did (I'd make a gong drum out of it!) to make a 14x22. I used to play 3 different bass drum sizes: a. 18" for bebop and a 20 or 22" for rock, pop, big band, jazz/rock, and fusion). I wonder if this deep bass drum trend will phase out. Only time will tell!

Started out with a 22” x 14” bass drum. Upgraded to 24” x 16” double bass drums. They were still NEVER loud ‘bassy’ enough, and never had the old-school thumpy sound I craved. *So 26” inch it is!*

I've had several 22x18 bass drums and never really loved them. I tried a 26x14 and fell in love. I've since tried to get shallow depth bass drums. I think it has something to do with the shallower depth having less air to move to activate the resonant head. Enjoyed the video, thanks!

@BrandywineCustomPercussion

7 ай бұрын

Yep, I think having the relatively loose resident head closer to the batter head is the key!

Nice overview and comparison. I’ve been playing the drums for 50+ years. I’m not great but just enjoy playing. I’ve owned lots of kits over the years, pretty much all Ludwig or Pearl. I am also a former recording engineer and Studio owner from 1972 until I got out of the business in 1989. I recently decided I wanted to get back into it for my own enjoyment so I built a small music project Studio in our music room in our home. I hadn’t own a drum kit for about 12 years. When I began researching what I wanted to start playing again I was immediately attracted to the Gretsch Catalina Club kits for their warm classic sounding Mahogany Shells and the 14” depth bass drum option. Now having played this kit for about 2 years I have to admit it is such a pleasure. With my previous kits with depth of 16", 18", or even 20", I’ve been moving a lot of air - now I know needlessly. I learned that for a punchy, kick sound, that requires much less effort the 14" x 20" is PERFECT. Lesson learned after all of these years.

I was in a band from the age of 16 until about 23 or so. I have a kit with 2 bass drums that are each (if I remember correctly) 20x16... I hated trying to get them to both sound identical, so I combined them in to one long bass drum. I am 40 years old now, I still have that kit in a basement at my buddy's house and the bass drums are still together. Its a BEAST and has a VERY low punch. When my band used to do shows, I had gotten remarks often from front of house engineers about how good the bass drum sounded when mic'd up. It's been well over 10 years since I've seen my drum kit... I need to get back to it.

This was fun. Thank you. I think I get how the 14" might sit prettier in a mix, but really dig the tone from the 18" drum. There are some overtones in the decay that really make my ears happy.

@drumdotpizza

7 ай бұрын

All in the ears of the beholder! I just wanted people to know the difference rather than be guessing. Nothing empirical, of course, but wanted something somewhat scientific to (hopefully) confirm what I have noticed over the last couple of decades. Thanks for being here!!

@adamimberti6948

7 ай бұрын

To me the sound died inside the 18 inch deep drum. It had this anaemic splat sound.... at 14 inches it gave off a nice punchy knock. IMO 14 is where it's at. If you want more resonance and overtones go up in diameter.

The 14" sounds way more focused, that's really fascinating man. Good stuff, appreciate all your work here. :)

Great video! I have a 16, two 18s, and a 20 and they're all 22's. I recently sold a 1980's 24x14 USA Gretsch, tuned correctly that thing was a bottom master. Blindfolded I can tell the difference between all of my kicks by the feel alone. The 16 is the fastest and needs an accurate tune to get that big, punchy sound I crave. It's the easiest to play, the two 18s sound nearly identical even though they are different brands, and are what I am most used to playing live. easy enough to control with pedal pressure. The 20 took a year or so to get used to- the response is the longest and you need to adapt to it, especially on a quick tune. but, when it's time to get big that 20 acts like my old 24x14- it's monstrous! Think "When the Levee Breaks" monstrous. :)

Excellent video Bro!!! I am a Drummer, Drum- Tech and sound engineer born in the 60's and my favorite and reference kick sound has been Steward Copeland's "walking on the moon" (14x22 Tama Imperialstar). As we moved into the 90's and 2000's I really started missing that sound till I restored a 70's Imperialstar with a 14x22. Then I got a hold of a 92 Tama Prototype kit with prototype Starclassic Maple shells and that kit came with a 18x22, 18x20 and a 14x20! Yes, that was the game changer right there. Hearing those exact bass drums (same shells, same construction) with 4" difference was the best comparrison (as you just showed) and I been searching for 14" deep kicks since as well as cutting down 18" deep kicks to 14", 13" and even 12"!!! Cause it is not only the sound that gets more authority and punch, I find the feel and response of the bass drum so much nicer to play. And as a sound guy I can guarantee you that the shallower kick drums produce that "chest thumping bass" easier than these booming cannons. If you get the opportinity I can highly recommend 13" and 12" deep, especially for 20" or 18" kicks. Again, great video and keep it up👍🏻👍🏻

@kylekyle2330

Ай бұрын

Wow, I never thought about it until now but "Walking on The Moon'' perfect example of what a 14x22 sounds like! You can feel how shallow that kick is, it's so immediate.

Great experiment! I personally play with both an 18x22 in 1 band and 14x24 in another and I like both for their unique qualities. With your experiment of using the same drum at different sizes, I actually preferred the 14 x 22. Good stuff!

I have to say you are absolutely right. For years I played a Yamaha 20 x 18 kick I recently switched to a pearl masters 20 x 14 and I could not believe the difference in the sound and also the feel of the bass drum while playing the drums, the 14 is definitely a rounder maybe puncher, but also to my ear is full of sound and kickand the playability of it is just so much better. I absolutely love the 20 x 14.

I still have a Ray Ayotte kit. He was still using Gibraltar hardware for the bass drum spur mounts and floor tom leg mounts. Phenomenal sounding kit. Also 18x22 kick

Fantastic apples and apples comparison! I have a deep Tama superstar hyperdrive bass, same 22" as my vintage 70s Tama kit, but the 70s bass is so much louder ... it goes boom :D

I really loved this experiment, it's amazing the difference between each other. Pure drumming gold, well done Joel!!

In my experience no. Deeper bass drums produce a flabbier, less punchy tone, are harder to play and don't record as well. Edit: experience confirmed. I have an 18"X22" DW Performance I'm going to cut down to 14" as soon as I find someone to do it in my area. Got to the end!

I always used 22" x 16" kicks then 22" x 18" kicks. K changed to a 20" x 14" kick when storage space became an issue and it was by far and away the best kick I've ever heard. I currently only use a mid range Natal kit, but that bass drum is a keeper

This was a very interesting experiment, well executed and a very accurate comparison exercise. I personally found this very useful and what its telling me is that pretty much regardless of size, if it sounds right ( to you ) then it is right. I knew there was a very good reason why I mostly prefer smaller bass drums.

As someone who grew up in the 80’s and 90’s playing rock and metal, I had all the big deep drums. I am now on the 14” kick depth bandwagon. Currently using a 26x14, so much better (and easier to haul and place) than the 26x16 and 26x18 I had before. Sounds better too! I will admit for smaller 20/22” kicks, I do like the look of deeper shells though.

This was an excellent demonstration and the amount of work involved is amazing. Regardless of which side of the coin anyone chooses, you have knocked this out of the park. Thank you!

Was interesting to hear how the fundamental pitch went up after the drum was cut down to 14". Was pretty stark in the A/B demonstration. Now I REALLY want to lay my mitts on a 14 inch deep kick. Thank you for the vid! Was very informative!

@machinate

7 ай бұрын

sounded like it went up by two semitones? I wish there had been a spectrogram in this video.

Drums Only… I stumbled upon your channel today, and my ears perked up when you mentioned Drums Only. I bought my one and only drumset there in 1980/81. A Slingerland (double-head - can't remember the style) with a Ludwig snare (I went through about a dozen snare drums before choosing that one). It was one of the sets they had sitting on that upper display "floor" (for lack of a better description). Prior to then, I would visit the store on occasion to load up on several pairs of marching sticks for the Surrey-based drum corps that I was teaching. That was back in the day when stick manufacturers would only ship sticks in loose bundles, so I'd stand there for like an hour drumming on a pad as I gradually found about 8 matching pairs of the Promark DC-10 (a stick designed specifically for downstroking) that I had the snare line using. I don't think digital scales existed back then? I remember that it surprised me that a local drum shop would carry those particular marching sticks (or ANY marching sticks), as there were no other drum corps around BC and definitely not a stick that a typical marching band would use. And they must have had 30 or 40 pair! I'm pretty sure that... somewhere... I still have a Drums Only flyer :)

Greetings from Australia....I have been playing a cheap AJAX (British) from the 1960s a 20"x 14 deep bassdrum...the rest of the kit is Los Angeles Camco...Prefer playing any 20" bass drum to 22" or 24" much easier to carry too. Everyone who hears the 20" Ajax is impressed...the beater hits way off centre, this makes for better tone too. Cheers.

Hi Joel, I’m 70 and new to drums. I made it to the end and like others really appreciate the content and truth that shines in your story line. You have been as objective as I think one can be. The comparison showed, to me, the “boom” is more and sounds richer in the 18” but shows also the punch that jumps in the 14”. I think both have a place and depends on the music and how you want the drum part to fit in with the complete orchestration of all instruments being utilized. Thanks for the content. As always it is enlightening.

@boomerguy9935

7 ай бұрын

I'm 74 and I've been playing since 1965 and still learning. I started in rock with a garage band and moved over to soft jazz. If you think this is a lot of info, wait until you check out the effect of drum shells - different wood, different thickness, different amount of plies, different covers (wrap, lacquor, etc.) and shell bearing edges (33 degrees vs 45 degrees). Then there are the snare drums with the same content as above PLUS the difference in types of metal, snare wires, snare throw-offs and dimensions. When you think you start to feel confident, you discover the difference in heads'thicknesses, layers, plies and applications. Then the millions of kinds of sticks. Don't forget the brushes! If you play in different venues, you will discover what happens when you play on or off stage, in rooms with carpet and curtains or in halls with no acoustics at all. If you play jazz or rock with acoustic or amplified instruments at different volumes, everything changes. Has your brain exploded yet? Don't panic. It's a wonderful trip that makes amusement parks seem dull. Welcome to the strange world of drummers. We are all fun and crazy. Just recognize that we are all different and there is no single correct answer to anything. Just find out what fits you and scratches your itch.

Love your content Joel and this is no exception (I made it to the end!) Thanks for taking the time to remove all of the 'yeah, but...' variables that would have detracted from the results - I'm sure we all realise just how time consuming this would actually have been to achieve. I also want you to know that I enjoy your videos so much over here in the UK, that when you release a new one, I purposefully wait until I have a cup of tea and some clear space before I start, so I can get the most out of it (a position previously exclusively held by the Drum Centre of Portsmouth in my house!) As for the drum size debate, I totally agree with your findings. I'm 53 and have had pretty much every make of kit in every size from 18" - 24" BD over the years. The size I keep returning to is 20x14 due to it's portability and tuning range. Playing off the head of an undampened Evans EQ3 front and back combo tuned to a medium tension gives massive results. Drop the tension and add some dampening results in a killer thud. I'll leave it there as I'm going on a bit. Keep up the great work and I look forward to the next high quality episode when you can.

Great video, again. Awesome to hear the same drum against itself for this topic and, man, what a difference!

I actually have a Tama Starclassic 2000's 18x22" and a Premier APK 1989 22x16", they are quite different drums, but the Premier souds more defined, eventhoug it's a cheaper one.... I watched your entire video.... Tahnk you, Joel! Absolutely intersting stuff here!

Great testing! Younger me really liked the boomy sustain from the longer kicks. Today the shorter is so much more impactful: thunderous and gets out of the way. Perfect

I have a 24x14 and a 22x12, and I love them. I've had a 24x20 and found it harder to play and travel with. Love the comparison.

Hey Joel, I love your channel and this post on bass drum depth. I’m hella old and began my symphony percussion lessons in 1960. Drums were taught as an acoustic listening experience such as bass drums are relatively slow and played anticipating the beat regarding projection, i.e., play a quarter note on snare and bass in exact unison and the bass drum is felt slightly behind tempo out in the audience. In 1965, I used that concept playing a Ludwig 22x14 bass drum a bit anticipated and improved by removing the resonant head. In 1978, I wanted more authority for the bass drum and started using a Gretsch 24x14 bass drum with resonant head in place. At the time pedal beaters were not hitting the head at 90 degrees until the ASBA Caroline pedal came out so I bought one, changed the felt beater to wood, and added a Danmar plastic dot. I had to alter my foot technique just to play the damn thing and when played by itself sounded terrible. However, playing it with a live band was arguably the best sounding bass drum ever heard in the Bay Area at the time. You could say I was anticipating the future like my bass drum notes, so in 1995 started using a DW 22x18 bass drum. The time it took for air to travel that extra four inches caused the drum to respond very slowly and there wasn’t much I could do about it. It sounded great (sonic) but my old school playability of the drum (music) was compromised. Not sure how or if my story plays out in this century of digital studio software. Meanwhile, I’m studying jazz using a Gretsch USA Custom 18x14 bass drum. Anyway, thanks for reading drummin' bros!

I've been playing for 35 years and played all different size bass drum till I bought a set of ddrums with a 22x20 deep and it's an absolute monster of a bass drum and everyone who I play with can't believe how good my bass drum sounds along with the rest of the drums.

Forget the size of a kick drum, I think we should be appreciating the size of your snare shelf instead lol. I have two snares I like to swap out with each other whenever I want some different tones, but the amount of snares you have is simply awesome man. I bet owning this many drum kits really helps dissolve any morsel of monotony or fatigue that might come from hearing the same tones all the time during practice sessions.

@drumdotpizza

7 ай бұрын

Can I have you email my wife with your perspective?? 🤣🤣 You're not far off with your reasoning.... I love drums, all kinds, and I find something special about even the most mundane of snare models (I have more than a couple of very inexpensive entry-level drums that I appreciate for certain applications). This makes it hard to thin the heard, which I need to do on occasion, because it just gets silly after awhile (see also my listings on Reverb). But yes, I was always the kid who found a use for all 64 Crayon colors, and not much has changed. Thanks so much for being here!!!

@patdeniston3697

7 ай бұрын

I have 2 snares, a supraphonic and a dust collector

@drumdotpizza

7 ай бұрын

@@patdeniston3697 A dust collector? Oh, do tell!!! I've heard good things about those! 🙂 No joke, a couple of my favorite snare drums are the cheapest you can buy, but they have a certain charm that I find... well... charming. What is your dust collector??

Hi, Joel. I grew up in the era of 14" deep bass drums, and when the 16s and 18s started showing up I thought of it as more a marketing gimmick than a musical advancement. Now that I've watched this video, I realize that it's only 80% a marketing gimmick and 20% a sound enhancer that some drummers may like under some circumstances. If they can fit that oversized bass drum in their car, that is.

@totigerus

7 ай бұрын

It's funny that when the 16 and 18 deep kicks became popular, the shallower rack toms also became more popular. I like it in the reverse myself, but it's difficult to find unless you go custom.

@jc3drums916

7 ай бұрын

@@totigerus 16" bass drums became popular when power toms became popular. Drum companies added 2" to toms and bass drums (3" to toms if you're Tama). 18" bass drums became popular when DW introduced the FAST tom sizes, which are 1" shorter than power toms (9"x12", etc.). In between those two events, some time in the 80s, Yamaha got the idea to cut floor toms (which traditionally are square-sized) down by 2" and suspend them like rack toms, and DW did the same early on. DW's massive popularity in the early 90s caused everyone to follow suit, until proper floor toms came back into vogue in the early 2000s or so.

I have two 22x22 kicks and they sound absolutely insane

Two depths for different applications. Both sound great. The difference in the length of the note produced by each size was so clear!

The deeper one is for me! Nothing bad about the 14” though. Personal preference. I just felt the bigger guy was just deeper sounding and still retained the punch.

Keep these full-length videos coming! Great stuff. I might be in the minority, but I much prefer the sustain/boom of the 18". I like the 14 punch as well, but give me that attack and resonance of the 18" all day.

@tim3308

Ай бұрын

Yep, confirmed for me - 18" for the win! It has more presence and depth (duh). More room turns out is more room (longer waves)... imagine that.

This is awesome! Great comparison! Great info! THANX!!

Great experiment. I definitely heard the difference. I don't think either was better or worse then the other, just different. I feel the shorter size is probably the most versatile. You can always add ambience and lows in the mix. It'll be much harder to remove. Great video. Thank you.

The 14-inch has more punch and sounds tighter to me. I actually preferred the 14. Thanks man that was cool 👍🏻

I use a 14 x 18 to gig with, easy to move. Great sound, if your sound man is good then it will sound big and punchy. And from jazz to rock and everywhere in between it sounds perfect. Had a big and deep one for years and never again.

Got to the end and I loved this experiment! Please keep doing what you’re doing!

Super cool. This validates the same felling I had. I recently sold all my 90s 18” deep kits and bought 14”x20” and 14”x 22” kits. I also noticed the drums are more responsive and feel better to play. Thanks for the awesome video!

22'X18' is still king! 14' has a higher pitch and just sound smaller. Authority? I don't know about that. Sound like a baby drum! Thanks for all your work that confirmed what I thought. I'll stick to my guns.

@drumdotpizza

2 ай бұрын

Excellent!!! I love this type of feedback, thank you!

Been using 20” kicks for years. But you’re never getting me away from the 24” deep 20” kicks I just built.

I love hearing the comparison. Thank you for this video.

Really great video with clear result. This has been a lot of work. Thank you for this!!!!

Gr8 Joel! love your experiments. Keep em' going....

I always watch to the end Joel. Thank you for the great content.

Great video. I've seen other similar analyses. If you think about it, it makes sense that the shallower bass drum produces a bigger sound, since there is less distance to travel from the beater head to the front head. A plurality of air that moves from the beater head excites the front head in a 14". Those "bazooka" bass drums look super cool, but most of the air never makes it from the beater side to the resonant side. I think the other factor is diameter. Bonham's bass drum was 26" x 14". So, he had the shallower depth, but much more surface area due to the larger diameter. That created more agitation of the head and more air movement.

@drumdotpizza

2 ай бұрын

I wonder if there is an 'absolute' in the behavior of drums relative to their depth. Sound travels at a fixed rate (it is generally believed). So how would proportionally similar drums sound as dimensions increased? I wonder if this isn't what is at play in 14" bass drums all sound (to me) more authoritative regardless of their diameter? I used to have an Ayotte custom kit with squared dimensions for the toms, but they didn't behave similar to one another as one might think. The smaller toms were 'faster' sounding, and the larger toms took more time for their tone to develop. I wonder if they had all been 9" deep how that would have affected their response? The larger diameters would no doubt lower the pitch, but maintaining shallow depth... would it make them all fast in response? Would the timbre of each be more related? I need to find a kit I can chop down to test this idea and see what can be learned.... That might be an interesting video!!!

I'm so grateful that you are sharing your knowledge. It means a lot. Thank you!

I made it to the end! Thank you for all the highly detailed and well thought out videos you’re making. I’m learning ALOT from you!!

Insightful demo!

Got to the end - this is astonishingly well made! thank you!

I always get to the end of drum videos! Thank you for your content!! ❤️🥁❤️🥁❤️🥁❤️

I got to the end. I have a maple Ludwig classic that I originally bought with an 18" deep bass drum that I had cut down to 14" deep. Part of the reason I did that is I came to the realization after purchasing the set that there's a reason why every drummer I see perform in LA has a 14" deep bass drum. I'm glad I did it. The kit really has a good solid punchy sound because of it. I also record it without the front head on to get a more solid punchy sound as well. Thanks for the comparison vid. Well done.

Just subscribed. Great channel for us drum nerds! Thanks for the great content. Keep it coming!

Thank you for this video~ Much appreciate the effort you put in the testing, which really a lot efforts! This video really helpful to me and I learn from you

Watched your video and appreciate your experiment and for sharing it with us!

just an awesome video, loved every bit. super entertaining and informative. subscribed!

Nice study. Thanks for the expertise.

Always love 14X22 bass drum wish more drum companies would do more 14X22 bass drums just me. Watched the whole video thanks.

Awesome analysis. Thanks. Like both depths.

Really useful stuff! Thanks!

Everything I heard and saw is instructive and necessary! I'm glad I was able to come across your videos!

Hey Man thanks for your time Very cool and informative

I watched your entire video. That was well done! I enjoy hearing how these variables change the tone so much. Thank you for sharing this!

Made it to the end. I'm still digging all the info, Joel, thank you!

Hey Joel…I got to the end! Really cool experiment and very well done!🤘🏼 I’ve been looking at a shallower bass drum for a while after playing an A&F and was floored at how it felt and sounded. Thanks! Looking forward to watching more of your stuff!

Great video. Its nice to see this channel getting the views it deserves. Its surprising how much of an impact this makes.

Awesome video. What a great comparison. Thank you for your sacrifice.

Yep. Great view. Liked, subscribed and looking forward to more. Thank you!

I went from a 24x16 monster to a 20x14 bass drum a couple years ago and I was mind blown the first time I mic’d it up and it sounded HUGE.

I had the Ludwig power set 5 piece. Played them from new in 1980 untill 2003. They were great. Now I'm 71 and arthritic so I sold them and got Roland TDX 17 KVX. Set it up to sobd like my Ludwig set. Oh the memories! Love your videos!!!

Made it to the end! Great, great video!

Great video Amigo! Really appreciate the experiment

You Nailed this, your time invested is appreciated.

I got to the end! Great video, love your commitment to the whole process.

This is a well done A/B comparison. Nice back & forth segment. Gadd likes 14” deep because he hears the return faster. No one stays on beat better than he, so I can believe he can sense or detect the response.