How do YOU respond to the objection that Catholics worship Mary?

@curiouslykristina

4 жыл бұрын

If we worshipped her, we’d be loud about it. Aren’t you supposed to be proud to speak of the thing you worship, rather than deny it time and time again? 🤣🤣

@jesuschristbiblebiblestudy

4 жыл бұрын

No comment.

@nickj5451

4 жыл бұрын

@@curiouslykristina Exactly! No, we're sneaking around offering Latria to Mary. With no one there to witness it, but that's totally what we're doing. It occurs to me we should more often ask the question, "How do you define worship?"

@ryantandy307

4 жыл бұрын

Jesus will separate the wheat from the tares when He returns. Jesus is Lord!

@ilmabernardo4389

4 жыл бұрын

I agree with veneration and asking for the intercession of Mother Mary, because She is the person closest to Jesus.

The word "worship" means two different things to Catholics and Protestants. Worship to a Protestant is prayer, singing, fellowship and actually just being in church on Sunday. Worship to a Catholic is limited to the reception of the Eucharist where we humbly receive the Body of Jesus during Mass. So, when a Catholic "prays" to Mary, it is not worship as it is understood as such by Protestants. Their misunderstanding is the Catholic understanding of the word "worship." Protestants do not understand what the Eucharist is and do not understand what prayer is (or the asking) of Mary for her intercession, which is similar to asking your own mother for help or to ask another person to pray for you. If Protestants could understand what we are really doing there would be no problem. The Eucharist is a very deep reality that we believe that we are actually receiving the body of Jesus and into our bodies. That when Jesus is in our mouths we briefly become another tabernacle for about 15 minutes as the bread dissolves. Think about that for a minute. We carry Jesus in our bodies as Mary carried Jesus, which is a huge endeavor. THAT is true worship. THAT is more than just singing and prayer and fellowship. It is the actual ingestion of Jesus into our bodies. It is the TRUE feeding of the lambs. So, to pray to Mary for help is asking her to intercede for us. Our ingestion of Jesus is TRUE worship. Praying to Mary is not worship.

@brando3342

4 жыл бұрын

@Cathy Catan Is it true that Jesus said "When you pray, pray like this"? And did he not give the example of how we are to pray and who we are to pray to? What is the definition of "prayer"?

@mickieknows7712

4 жыл бұрын

Prayer is not worship. Prayer is asking for intercession. Do you not ask your friends to pray for you? Then what do they do? They ask God to help you and have mercy on you. Don't they?

@brando3342

4 жыл бұрын

@@mickieknows7712 I don't pray to deceased individuals to pray for me. Have you looked up the definition of prayer? Here: "a solemn request for help or expression of thanks addressed to God or an object of worship." I ask family and friends to pray for me, because we are all on the same level. I need prayer, just as much as others living this life need prayer. Do Catholics ask God to help Mary? Can I ask where there is scripture that says we should pray to Mary or the saints? I'm actually curious where that is.

@brando3342

4 жыл бұрын

@@cotaryan3740 Can you elaborate on what you think that means in the context being spoken about here? Yes, the prayers of God's people are heard by him. How do you know that is the prayers in which we are speaking about now? I take that as all of God's people. Here on Earth. How do you justify it is the interceding prayers from the saints and Mary?

@brando3342

4 жыл бұрын

@@cotaryan3740 "Mary is the neck or nexus and we are the body." Where does that come from?

I'm Catholic. Just come back to the faith. Personally I'm not that big on praying to Mary. Same with the saints. I do it sometimes because she is of course to be revered for her sinless nature and her role in bringing Jesus to us. And I think the saints are great in the sense that they're relatable as they were human beings like us. Maybe in my research I will find a saint that really resonates with me. But I prefer just praying to God.

@eugengolubic2186

4 жыл бұрын

Similar. I had the same issue, but I found out that asking Mary and the saints for intercession even made a relationship with God a lot stronger. It showed me more appreciation and richness of the faith. If you don't have a saint to ask for, my suggestions are Paul, Augustine and Thomas Aquinas.

@okonomiyaki3169

4 жыл бұрын

"Don't be afraid to love Mary, because you can never love her more than her Son does." -St. Maximilian Maria Kolbe

@bobpolo2964

4 жыл бұрын

she was not sinless

@okonomiyaki3169

4 жыл бұрын

@@bobpolo2964 obviously you are not Catholic. Well you can hold on to your beliefs if you think you know better. God bless you more! :)

@FormidableSantiago

4 жыл бұрын

@@bobpolo2964 by the grace of God she is

Praise the Lord

Have been a Catholic my whole life. Never did worship Mary, never will. Veneration is a totally different thing.

@joshportie

4 жыл бұрын

Veneration is worship lol.

@MystoRobot

4 жыл бұрын

@@joshportie Learn the definition, bud.

@savedbygrace8337

3 жыл бұрын

You can call a pig a horse, bit it is and will always be a pig.

@lonelyberg1808

3 жыл бұрын

You're right

@Mygoalwogel

2 жыл бұрын

Papists do worship Mary. No question about it: "My Queen and my Mother, *I give myself entirely to you;* and to show my devotion to you, I consecrate to you this day my eyes, my ears, my mouth, my heart, *my whole being without reserve.* Wherefore, good Mother, as *I am your own, keep me, guard me, as your property and possession.* Amen."

An example of what troubles me as a Catholic--> intercession can bleed into worship: "She refuses with embarrassment and fatigue, only to see, the next day, to her surprise, that Father Desrochers has come to her home to anoint her and offer her the opportunity to worship the relic, coming straight from the sanctuary of Sainte-Anne-de-Beaupré." (From St. Anne Sanctuary website testimonials)

@johnsayre2038

2 жыл бұрын

But it's also important to dig into the etymology of the word "worship". That May help clarify some concerns you have. Best wishes.

@johnsayre2038

2 жыл бұрын

@RejoicingSon various words in any given language do not always have the same meaning today that they did across all times and cultures in the history of their usage. Etymology is interesting, it helps us understand the author's intent which is often different than what our 21st century ears hear, whether those are religious texts or otherwise. Peace to you.

Man, can I ask what watch Fr. Pine is wearing in this video? Looks great!

Momma Mary, bring us to the foot of the cross to be with our Lord.

Matt if you cant imagine God coming in a beam of lightening just wait until you find out he rose from the dead, it's gonna blow your mind man

What protestants don’t often realise is that Catholics don’t have to pray to Mary and the saints. We believe we can definitely pray directly with God and have a personal relationship with him. We just believe that those in heaven can hear our prayers, and we can ask them to pray for us as we ask those on earth to to pray for us.

Interesting comment ' We go to God together' I have heard you can't go to God alone because our purpose is to serve.

As someone really struggling with the Catholic relationship to Mary, this was confusing to me..Fr Gregory begins with saying that it would be wrong to offer adoration to Mary or ask for her mercy and I'm pretty certain Marian prayers do these thing. Cognitive dissonance happening, here.

@nojo1986

3 жыл бұрын

"Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy, Our life, our sweetness and our hope. To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve, To thee do we send up our sighs, Mourning and weeping in this valley of tears. Turn then, most gracious Advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us, And after this our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus."

@Mygoalwogel

2 жыл бұрын

Papists do worship Mary. No question about it: "My Queen and my Mother, *I give myself entirely to you;* and to show my devotion to you, I consecrate to you this day my eyes, my ears, my mouth, my heart, *my whole being without reserve.* Wherefore, good Mother, as *I am your own, keep me, guard me, as your property and possession.* Amen."

@nojo1986

2 жыл бұрын

@@Mygoalwogel yeah, I suppose a lot of this goes back to who you e come to believe Jesus really was. If He was God at birth, then it makes sense we have the trust in God to make ourselves vulnerable to Mary, just as God Himself did.

@Mygoalwogel

2 жыл бұрын

@@nojo1986 Mainstream Nikonites (orthodox) do the same: *Orthodox Compline prayer to Mary:* _On the terrible day of judgment, deliver me from eternal punishment and make me an heir of your Son's glory_ However, I don't know about Old Believer Orthodox who refused to bow to Patriarch Nikon I. The admirable Ancient Church of the East (falsely accused of Nestorianism) do not. If you could convince me that apostolic succession was important, I'd become Church of the East, though I'd never be able to learn Syriac.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

@YiriUbic3793

3 жыл бұрын

Crux sacra sit mihi lux! Nunquam draco sit mihi dux! Vade retro Satana! Nunquam suade mihi vana! Sunt mala quae libas. Ipse venena bibas!

@NicklasNylander87

3 жыл бұрын

This verse refers to Christ's sacrifice and not prayer. There is only one mediator between us and God, and that is Christ. In the old covenant there where animal sacrifice that mediated between us and God.

@bazzy8376

2 жыл бұрын

true. the Mosaic covenant was mediated between God and Moses, but that covenant has passed away. So now all we have is the new covenant.

Any chance of getting Dr. Mark Miravalle on for an all things Mary episode?

In my United Methodist church, we only mention Mary once per year when we read the Christmas story. Otherwise we ignore her.

Do you know from what of Augustine’s works is that quote?

I heard that Thomas Aquinas didn't agree with saintly intercession. Is that true?

Sincere question: Growing up most of my limited experience in church was Mass with my grandparents. Eventually I read the NT and became a Christian. I figured I would join the Catholic Church because that’s all I knew. My senior year I attended Mass every week with my grandparents, as I moved in with them. I didn’t become Catholic because I was, and am, confused by the prayers to Mary and the Saints. All these years later, and having read the Bible multiple times I remain confused by this practice. I haven’t been able to reconcile talking/praying to the dead as something God accepts. I love and respect Mary and the Saints but I do not see where communication with them from this side of the grave is a Biblical practice. Can someone explain this to me with a Biblical reference? I go to Mass with my grandparents when I visit my hometown still. But, I’ve never been allowed to take Communion with them because I’m a Protestant. Thanks!

@thstroyur

3 жыл бұрын

As I mentioned in another comment, perhaps Apocalypse 6:9-11 is relevant for the saints; on Mary, see also Luke 1:46-55...

@jakinmiller3222

3 жыл бұрын

There are a few bible verses that help, but the main one for me is John 19:26-27, when Jesus says to Mary "behold your son" and to the disciple "behold your mother." Notice that John does not say "John" but "disciple." This seems like a small distinction in the English translation, but in the original (Greek?) John used the genderless, quantaty-less form of the word "disciple." So he was untrusting every disciple of God to Mary, and charging her with being the mother of every disciple. Additionally, I would encourage you to look outside of the Bible as well in the Bible. The Bible is the word of God and we cannot contradict it, but God certainly speaks in other ways. If you haven't already, research Our Lady of Guadalupe. One cannot ask for more concrete, unexplainable evidence of a miracle than the image of Mary left on the cloak of St. Juan Diego. And who is the image off? Mary. Even if you still don't love the idea of praying to the saints, Guadalupe seems a pretty clear sign that the Blessed Mother is involved in our world and can hear us. Hope that helps. God bless and Viva Christo Rey.

@danielcaoili6890

Жыл бұрын

Its a business. The Vatican makes money selling Mary statues. Mathew 12: 46 While he was still speaking to the people, behold, his mother and his brothers[a] stood outside, asking to speak to him.[b] 48 But he replied to the man who told him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

@TheChadPad

Жыл бұрын

@@danielcaoili6890 Dude, you just opened my eyes. Follow the money. The love of money is the root of all evil

@thomistica_

9 ай бұрын

bro are you trying to say Mary isnt the mother of Jesus 😂@@danielcaoili6890

❤❤❤

of course catholics dont admit they worship mary. but they cant deny they bow down to her graven images.

@bluey3538

Жыл бұрын

I think there are some who worship her, some dont, some probably don't realise they worship her. When i asked my devout catholic friend she said catholic doesn't worship her but she is still doing novena, rosario, visit her shrines. Either way i think everyone should just do whatever within their conviction. I myself dont agree with what catholic do with her

@peterzinya407

Жыл бұрын

@@bluey3538 Catholicism is demonic.

@JesusfoundedCatholicChurch

Жыл бұрын

@@peterzinya407 Catholicism is from God. Protestantism is from the devil. I was Protestant for 55 years until I saw its false teachings and how their doctrines disobey God. The early church was Catholic, scripture says Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church. That's why I left Protestantism for Catholicism. Deo gratias St Ignatius, a disciple of the Apostle John said "There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church ". If you believe in the Bible, then you believe in everything that the Catholic Church teaches as the Bible is a Catholic book, written by Catholics (New Testament only), compiled by Catholics, and canonized by the Catholic Church through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. I'll pray for you to come to the knowledge of God's truth

@apubakeralpuffdaddy392

Жыл бұрын

Why did God command Moses to make a bronze serpent? And when the people got bitten, they had to gaze upon it to be healed?

can I be saved and go to heaven if I NEVER pray to Mary or ask her to intercede for me ? Are you saying I can’t receive the same grace or intercession if I just pray and stay in devotion to Jesus ?

@g.weg.3723

3 жыл бұрын

One of Jesus’s last sentences was that the disciple take Mary as his own mother, into his own home. We are called to be “the disciple”

@NicklasNylander87

3 жыл бұрын

@Prasanth Thomas why not? I dont think chruch teaching is that you must pray to Mary to get to heaven, at least I've never read or heard about that.

@NicklasNylander87

3 жыл бұрын

@Prasanth Thomas I have not read the whole thing no, I'm not catholic. So if you could point me to the place where it says you HAVE TO pray to Mary to get into heaven I'd appriciate it. It would be sort of a big deal for me.

@NicklasNylander87

3 жыл бұрын

@Prasanth Thomas ooh. My bad! Cheers mate

I pray the Rosary pretty regularly and do Novenas but the Mary thing is beginning to enter the realm of worship. Mary is probably mentioned 10 times more than Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the Father; And, this thing about Queen of the Universe or whatever where she demands to be called Co-Redemptrix cannot possibly be coming from heaven. The whole veneration of Mary is that she does not eclipse Jesus. She is placing herself at level with Him and the thing that all Grace comes thru Her! It is crossing over into idol worship.

@michaelcourville5957

4 жыл бұрын

The very purpose of the rosary is to contemplate on the life of Jesus Christ; hence the 4 mysteries of His life. We are asking Mary to show us and direct us to her Son, "the fruit of thy womb" Jesus (Luke 1:42). She was there at His birth, life, death and Resurrection. She had the best first person point-of-view of the life of Jesus Christ as His Mother in which the Holy Spirit flows. She can teach us how to imitate Him. Mary "treasured up all these things and pondered them close to her heart" (Luke 2:19). All is treasured "up" to God the Father, Yahweh. Mary is a humble handmaid of the Lord (Luke 1:38). It is men who put her above God... but really... who can love Mary more than Jesus?

@michaelcourville5957

4 жыл бұрын

If you like math, the 10 times more is incorrect. May God bless you! www.catholicbridge.com/catholic/mary-counting-rosary.php

@patrickbarnes9874

Жыл бұрын

It has gone past "crossing" over. Mary is worshipped as a goddess in Catholicism. They just refuse to admit that's what's happening. I believed the Catholic claims to veneration and not worship up until I looked into the Mary visions. After seeing what the Vatican has given its approval to, there's no doubt at all that Mary is a goddess in Catholicism. Mary saves your soul, not Jesus. Mary defeats Satan, not Jesus. Mary rules the Kingdom, not Jesus. These are all direct contradictions of the Bible. There is no possible way to claim that Mary saves souls and then claim that you don't consider Mary a goddess. The Bible explicitly states that Jesus is the only way to salvation. Not Mary. Jesus.

@ivanromero502

Жыл бұрын

She isn't the queen of the universe, she was ha human, she isn't God! God created everything even mary

@patrickbarnes9874

Жыл бұрын

@@ChefRaekwon420 No, it doesn't. A one line response of "you don't get it" means exactly zero. If you can't point out where I've misread, then my assertions go unchallenged.

Jesus said He gave us His "Shalom", freely. Why do I need Mary or a Saint?

@thstroyur

3 жыл бұрын

Well, they were humans, like us - and as such they can emphatize with our struggle in meaningfully communicating with God and facilitate it. Perhaps I can't explain it very satisfactorily, but I feel a passage from Revelation may be relevant: _"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."_ - Apocalypse 6:9-11

@bazzy8376

2 жыл бұрын

remember that "when 2 or 3 are gathered" thing? There are millions waiting to hear from you, with nothing else to do but pray in heaven, so why not?

I had the understanding that one of the reasons that God made Mary full of grace, aka sinless, was because he couldn’t tolerate sin. That’s why in the ark of the old covenant nobody could touch it, because God’s presence resided there. So he (God) needed a pure new ark to reside in and give his Word flesh. So I don’t understand what Matt and Fr Pine mean at 2:31-2:58 when they say that God could have chosen as a vessel a sinful prostitute. Wouldn’t it be kind of contradictory? Is it a lapsus? Am I missing something ?

@jakinmiller3222

3 жыл бұрын

I could be wrong but I think their point is that Jesus did not have to come through a sinless virgin. As Fr. Gregory said when addressing Matt's objection to "beaming down," it is more fitting to come from the womb of a mother, but it is not necessary, as all things are possible in God. Similarly, it is most fitting for Jesus to come through a sinless virgin, but it is not strictly necessary.

@chriswyles553

2 жыл бұрын

That's fine, except God now dwells, through His Spirit, in each of us, who are sinners

@odetafecani1614

Жыл бұрын

Yes I agree with you. They go off on weird tangents here. And problematic ones at that

@odetafecani1614

Жыл бұрын

@@jakinmiller3222 well it was necessary because Christ coming from the lineage of Adam, it was better for redemption of the human race.

Can someone direct me to the place where it states the Saints can hear your prayers? Or is it assumed that all in heaven can hear prayers? Can Daniel, Enoch or Job hear our prayers?

@noahgaming8833

11 ай бұрын

There are two that I found particularly interesting in the Supplement to Aquinas’s Summa Theologiae, question seventy-two, article one. The second objection in the article says the saints don’t know our prayers because such knowledge would undermine their happiness. Here’s one way to put the argument: P1: If the saints knew our prayers, then they would know our sufferings. P2: If the saints knew our sufferings, then the saints would be sad. P3: But the saints in heaven can’t be sad. C1: Therefore, the saints can’t know our sufferings. C2: Therefore, the saints can’t know our prayers. The key premise is the second, to which Aquinas replies that we can’t say the saints in heaven are grieved by knowledge of our troubles in life because they are “so filled with heavenly joy, that sorrow finds no place in them.” Although I think Aquinas is right here, it seems there needs to be a bit more explanation as to how knowledge of our sufferings wouldn’t undermine the happiness of the blessed. In the Summa, he obliges: “God allows evils to happen in order to bring a greater good” (ST III:1:3, ad 3). Whether the saints know that good or not doesn’t matter. Simply knowledge that God will direct a permitted evil to a greater good gives the saints reason not to be sad. This is especially true given the saints’ vision of the divine essence, which provides them with an improved perspective on how God perfectly orders things to his glory. Second, the saints in heaven view the troubles in our lives with an eternal perspective, a perspective that Paul articulates in his letters. For example, in Romans 8:18, Paul writes, “I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.” Similarly, in 2 Corinthians 4:17, Paul writes, “For this slight momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison.” If Paul’s knowledge of such glory without the beatific vision could diminish sadness caused by his sufferings, then how much more would the saints’ knowledge of this glory with the beatific vision diminish sadness? Much more! In fact, being in the presence of the heavenly glory excludes sadness altogether. So, just because the saints in heaven would have knowledge of the troubles in our lives if they knew our prayers, it doesn’t follow they would be sad. They know there are greater goods that God is bringing about through our troubles. The third objection that Aquinas deals with is similar to an objection often heard today in challenging God’s existence: the problem of evil. It claims the saints can’t possibly know our prayers because if they did, they would respond to our requests for intercession, and we wouldn’t have suffering in our lives. Behind this objection is the idea that a charitable person always assists his friend and/or neighbor when the latter is suffering. Since the saints in heaven have perfect love, and we’re their friends, it follows that if they knew our requests about what’s going on in our lives, they would help us in our sufferings. But-the argument goes-they must not be helping us in our sufferings, because we suffer every day. Therefore, they must not know the requests that we make. This objection is based on a false dichotomy. It supposes either the saints are praying for us, in which case we wouldn’t suffer, or they don’t know our prayers. But there’s a third option. Perhaps the saints know our prayers and it’s just not God’s will that we be delivered from a particular trial, at least not yet. Like us, they don’t know all of God’s plan, and so even their petitions are subject to what the Lord wills (James 4:15). Alternately, if-in a particular case-they do know that God wills to allow a source of suffering, they certainly would not pray for it to be removed. Aquinas explains, The souls of the saints have their will fully conformed to the Divine will even as regards the things willed; and consequently, although they retain the love of charity towards their neighbor, they do not succor him otherwise than they see to be in conformity with the disposition of divine justice (ST Suppl. 72:1, ad 3). So, if we ask the saints to pray that we be delivered from a particular difficulty in our lives, and it doesn’t come to pass, it’s because it wasn’t God’s will. It’s not because the saints aren’t aware of our prayers. Furthermore, if God doesn’t will to deliver us from a trial, the saints can still help us by praying we have the strength to persevere in faith and not lose hope in the midst of our suffering. Such prayers also would be fruits of perfect love. Even if we don’t hear these arguments raised today, they’re interesting to consider. And if by chance a Protestant does happen to use one or both of them, a Catholic will be able to show why they don’t succeed.

@noahgaming8833

11 ай бұрын

We have evidence they are aware of our prayers. You don’t have to know everything to know some things, so the saints don’t have to be omniscient to be aware of our prayer requests. We do not know much about how the human intellect works in heaven, but the fact that heaven is a higher state than this life suggests we will have more rather than less awareness. This is also suggested because we will be made “partakers of the divine nature” (2 Pet. 1:4) and transformed to be like God by virtue of the beatific vision (1 John 3:2). Scripture does not give many pictures of what life in heaven is like, but it shows saints and angels aware of what is happening on earth (Rev. 6:9-11, 7:13-14, 11:15-18, 16:5-6, 18:20). The common understanding is that the saints are aware of our prayer requests through union with God. It is reasonable to suppose that, in the perfect state of heaven, people will have whatever information is relevant to them. Thus God can make a saint aware that someone is asking for his intercession. However saints and angels are aware of our prayer requests, Scripture indicates that they are. In Revelation 5:8, the twenty-four elders, who appear to represent the leaders of the people of God in heaven, offer incense to God. We are told that the incense is “the prayers of the saints.” In Revelation 8:3-4, an angel offers incense that is mingled with “the prayers of all the saints.” At that time, the term “saint” was commonly used to refer to liv- ing Christians (2 Cor. 1:1; Eph. 1:1; Phil. 1:1). It is natural to see these passages as depicting the inhabitants of heaven presenting the prayer requests of the saints on earth to God. This is surely part of what 8:3 means by the reference to the prayers of “all the saints.” TIP If it is suggested that these passages don’t deal with prayer requests made to those in heaven, then our point is made even stronger, for the passages would show that those in heaven were aware of prayer requests that weren’t even addressed to them!

@maurdib

11 ай бұрын

@noahgaming8833 That is a lot, but do you have any Bible versus to back you up. I don't go on what men think or theorized, I follow Jesus and the Bible. So just one chapter and verse will do Nothing you posted states that nor can be interpreted that way sorry, you are reading into the tent from

@noahgaming8833

11 ай бұрын

@@maurdib first, I did, and second: 1. Sola Scriptura Is Not Taught in the Bible Catholics agree with Protestants that Scripture is a “standard of truth”-even the preeminent one-but not in a sense that rules out the binding authority of authentic apostolic Tradition and the Church. The Bible doesn’t teach that. Catholics agree that Scripture is materially sufficient. In other words, on this view, every true doctrine can be found in the Bible, if only implicitly and indirectly by deduction. But no biblical passage teaches that Scripture is the formal authority or rule of faith in isolation from the Church and Tradition. Sola scriptura can’t even be deduced from implicit passages. 2. The “Word of God” Refers to Oral Teaching Also “Word” in Holy Scripture often refers to a proclaimed, oral teaching of prophets or apostles. What the prophets spoke was the word of God regardless of whether or not their utterances were recorded later as written Scripture. So for example, we read in Jeremiah: “For twenty-three years . . . the word of the Lord has come to me and I have spoken to you again and again . . . ‘But you did not listen to me,’ declares the Lord. . . . Therefore the Lord Almighty says this: ‘Because you have not listened to my words. . . .’” (Jer. 25:3, 7-8 [NIV]). This was the word of God even though some of it was not recorded in writing. It had equal authority as writing or proclamation-never-reduced-to-writing. This was true also of apostolic preaching. When the phrases “word of God” or “word of the Lord” appear in Acts and the epistles, they almost always refer to oral preaching, not to Scripture. For example: “When you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God” (1 Thess. 2:13). If we compare this passage with another, written to the same church, Paul appears to regard oral teaching and the word of God as synonymous: “Keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us” (2 Thess. 3:6). 3. Tradition Is Not a Dirty Word Protestants often quote the verses in the Bible where corrupt traditions of men are condemned (e.g., Matt. 15:2-6; Mark 7:8-13; Col. 2:8). Of course, Catholics agree with this. But it’s not the whole truth. True, apostolic Tradition also is endorsed positively. This Tradition is in total harmony with and consistent with Scripture. 4. Jesus and Paul Accepted Non-Biblical Oral and Written Traditions Protestants defending sola scriptura will claim that Jesus and Paul accepted the authority of the Old Testament. This is true, but they also appealed to other authority outside of written revelation. For example: a. The reference to “He shall be called a Nazarene” cannot be found in the Old Testament, yet it was “spoken by the prophets” (Matt. 2:23). Therefore, this prophecy, which is considered to be “God’s word,” was passed down orally rather than through Scripture. b. In Matthew 23:2-3, Jesus teaches that the scribes and Pharisees have a legitimate, binding authority based “on Moses’ seat,” but this phrase or idea cannot be found anywhere in the Old Testament. It is found in the (originally oral) Mishnah, which teaches a sort of “teaching succession” from Moses on down. c. In 1 Corinthians 10:4, Paul refers to a rock that “followed” the Jews through the Sinai wilderness. The Old Testament says nothing about such miraculous movement. But rabbinic tradition does. d. “As Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses” (2 Tim. 3:8). These two men cannot be found in the related Old Testament passage (Ex. 7:8ff.) or anywhere else in the Old Testament. 5. The Apostles Exercised Authority at the Council of Jerusalem In the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15:6-30), we see Peter and James speaking with authority. This Council makes an authoritative pronouncement (citing the Holy Spirit) that was binding on all Christians: “For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from unchastity” (Acts 15:28-29). In the next chapter, we read that Paul, Timothy, and Silas were traveling around “through the cities,” and Scripture says that “they delivered to them for observance the decisions which had been reached by the apostles and elders who were at Jerusalem” (Acts 16:4). 6. Pharisees, Sadducees, and Oral, Extra Biblical Tradition Christianity was derived in many ways from the Pharisaical tradition of Judaism. The Sadducees, on the other hand, rejected the future resurrection of the soul, the afterlife, rewards and retribution, demons and angels, and predestinarianism. The Sadducees also rejected all authoritative oral teaching and essentially believed in sola scriptura. They were the theological liberals of that time. Christian Pharisees are referred to in Acts 15:5 and Philippians 3:5, but the Bible never mentions Christian Sadducees. The Pharisees, despite their corruptions and excesses, were the mainstream Jewish tradition, and both Jesus and Paul acknowledge this. So neither the orthodox Old Testament Jews nor the early Church was guided by the principle of sola scriptura. 7. Old Testament Jews Did Not Believe in Sola Scriptura To give two examples from the Old Testament itself: a. Ezra, a priest and scribe, studied the Jewish law and taught it to Israel, and his authority was binding under pain of imprisonment, banishment, loss of goods, and even death (cf. Ezra 7:26). b. In Nehemiah 8:3, Ezra reads the Law of Moses to the people in Jerusalem. In verse 7 we find thirteen Levites who assisted Ezra and helped the people to understand the law. Much earlier, we find Levites exercising the same function (cf. 2 Chr. 17:8-9). So the people did indeed understand the law (cf. Neh. 8:8, 12), but not without much assistance-not merely upon hearing. Likewise, the Bible is not altogether clear in and of itself but requires the aid of teachers who are more familiar with biblical styles and Hebrew idiom, background, context, exegesis and cross-reference, hermeneutical principles, original languages, etc. The Old Testament, then, teaches about a binding Tradition and need for authoritative interpreters, as does the New Testament (cf. Mark 4:33-34; Acts 8:30-31; 2 Pet. 1:20; 3:16). 8. Ephesians 4 Refutes the Protestant “Proof Text” “All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work” (2 Tim. 3:16-17). This passage doesn’t teach formal sufficiency, which excludes a binding, authoritative role for Tradition and Church. Protestants extrapolate onto the text what isn’t there. If we look at the overall context of this passage, we can see that Paul makes reference to oral Tradition three times (cf. 2 Tim. 1:13-14; 2:2; 3:14). And to use an analogy, let’s examine a similar passage: “And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the cunning of men, by their craftiness in deceitful wiles. Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ” (Eph. 4:11-15). If 2 Timothy 3 proves the sole sufficiency of Scripture, then, by analogy, Ephesians 4 would likewise prove the sufficiency of pastors and teachers for the attainment of Christian perfection. In Ephesians 4, the Christian believer is equipped, built up, brought into unity and mature manhood, and even preserved from doctrinal confusion by means of the teaching function of the Church. This is a far stronger statement of the perfecting of the saints than 2 Timothy 3, yet it does not even mention Scripture. So if all non-scriptural elements are excluded in 2 Timothy, then, by analogy, Scripture would logically have to be excluded in Ephesians. It is far more reasonable to recognize that the absence of one or more elements in one passage does not mean that they are nonexistent. The Church and Scripture are both equally necessary and important for teaching.

@maurdib

11 ай бұрын

@noahgaming8833 Again I'm not reading something you copied and pasted, If you want to have a discussion make a point and I will respond.

4:15 wait so the Catholic understanding of the Eucharist is that Christ assumes the form of the bread and wine the same way that he assumed a human form when He came to earth?

@thehungarywaffleinc.7775

3 жыл бұрын

Essentially

Yes and yes?

Jeremiah 7 and 44 talks about queen of heaven worshipping practices that includes drink and cake ceremony of Babylon origin explain the similarities to catholic traditions?

@noahgaming8833

11 ай бұрын

This is often used by anti-Catholics against the Catholic veneration of Mary. A few comments are in order. First, Mary had not yet been Assumed into heaven so there was no “real” Queen Mother yet. Mary’s assumption into heaven did not take place until after the ascension of our Lord. So, to acknowledge a Queen of Heaven before there really was one was obviously premature at best, idolatrous at worst. Second, the goddess the Israelites offering sacrifices to was a pagan, mythical goddess. They had displaced their living God with a mythical pagan goddess. Mary is neither a mythical goddess nor pagan. She is very real. She has NOT replaced God or been “put ahead of God.” We know she is NOT God or a goddess or divine. She is a creature like you and I; yet, she is Mother of our Lord. Third, the worship or offering of sacrifices to any one or any thing other than the Trinity is blatant idolatry. Paragraph 971 in the Catechism of the Catholic Church declares the veneration of Mary is essentially different than worship. “All generations will call me blessed”: The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship. The Church rightly honors the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of ‘Mother of God, to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs.... This very special devotion ... differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration. The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an “epitome of the whole Gospel,” express this devotion to the Virgin Mary.” It was wrong for ancient Israel to offer sacrifices to any thing or any one but to God alone, so the worship of a pagan and mythical “Queen of Heaven” was wrong by virtue of its idolatry. Worshiping Mary would be just as sinful. BUT, the Church has always forbidden worshiping or making offerings to Mary or anyone but God alone denouncing such practices as idolatry. Fourth, you say ask who the Israelites were “venerating”? Venerating and worship are as different as friendship and married love, as different as a contract and a covenant. Veneration is showing honor and respect; worship is adoration reserved for the Trinity alone. No knowledgeable Catholic gets these confused. Catholics venerate Mary (and to a lesser degree any person worthy of honor and respect), but they worship God. BIG difference. Fifth, there is also a HUGE difference between sacrificing to a pagan goddess Queen of Heaven and honoring a legitimate Queen of Heaven who is Queen by virtue of being the Mother of Our Lord. Hope you can see that difference. Sixth, why is Mary the rightful and proper Queen of Heaven? Jesus is a Jewish king. He sits on the throne of his fathers David and Solomon (Lk 1:31-33 “And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus. “He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David; and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end.” Would it not be correct to say that Jesus would be the BEST of Jewish kings and since the Law demands that we honor our father and mother-would he not honor his mother better than any one else? How did the kings of Judah honor their mothers? Listen to 1 Kings 2:19 “So Bathsheba [mother of the king] went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah. And the king arose to meet her, bowed before her, and sat on his throne; then he had a throne set for the king’s mother, and she sat on his right.” From that point on the kings in the line of David, all had queens but they were not their wives-they were their mothers. Over and over again the Old Testament refers to the queen as the “Queen Mother.” (See my article on Queen Mother). Now Jesus comes along and eventually he is seated on his throne in heaven. Do you think he would do less for his mother than the sinful kings of Judah? Not on your life. As a Jewish king Jesus would-better than any other king-raise his mother up to be his queen too. That is one reason we believe in the Assumption and the Queenship of Mary. It is simply allowing Scripture and history to inform our theology. The Apostle John, who was given the responsibility to care for Mary during her earthly life, saw a vision of her as the queen in heaven in Revelation 12:1-2. Was John putting Mary ahead of God when he reveals her as the Queen of Heaven and the Mother of the Church whose children are those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus (Rev 12:17)? Would we dare say John is idolatrous, offering sacrifice to a pagan goddess, putting a mythical deity in the place of God? Of course not! Seventh, I think this is also a very serious matter. Under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit Mary said, “All generations will call me blessed!” (Lk 1:48). What Church does that still? And what about those who DON’T? Do you want to stand before the Son on the last day and say, I was one who did not venerate and honor your mother-I ignored, or worse yet, maligned Your mother the queen? To ignore and not venerate the TRUE QUEEN OF HEAVEN is to insult her Son-who DOES honor her because he loves her and he obeyed the Law perfectly. When Jeremiah rightfully condemned the worship of a pagan, mythical, goddess Queen of Heaven, he was not denying that there would someday be a true Queen of Heaven, nor does it imply, as anti-Catholics assume, that Catholics worship or adore Mary. Catholics worship God alone and venerate the Queen Mother-who is not a goddess but an exalted woman who worships her Son along with us. Hope that helps.

@noahgaming8833

11 ай бұрын

The “Queen of Heaven” that Jeremiah refers to is not Mary. Therefore, he was not condemning Marian devotion. The fact that Jeremiah was not referring to Mary is obvious, since he was writing around 600 B.C., not the first century A.D. In his day, the title “Queen of Heaven” was used to refer to various pagan deities. There were many such deities, as every pagan pantheon had a major, ruling deity who was depicted as a king in heaven. Correspondingly, various goddesses were regarded as queens in heaven. Scholars are not sure which of these deities Jeremiah was referring to. It may have been a Canaanite goddess such as Ashtoreth (the wife of Ba’al), Asherah (the wife of El), or the warrior goddess Anat. Whichever he meant, it is clear that the condemned devotion was taking place in his own day, for Jeremiah refers to it as “what they are doing in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem” (Jer. 7:17). He also promises that God’s wrath would fall on members of his own generation as a result of this practice (Jer. 44:24-30). The fact that “Queen of Heaven” was used for a pagan deity in Jeremiah’s day does not mean that it can’t also have a legitimate use. Words and phrases gain their meaning and connotations from the way they are used in a particular community, and they are not permanently ruined just because pagans once used them. As noted, the same pagan pantheons that had Queens of Heaven also had Kings of Heaven, but that didn’t stop the biblical authors from referring to the true God as a King (Ps. 29:10, 47:2, 6-7, 103:19; Isa. 6:5; Mal. 1:14; 1 Tim. 1:17; Rev. 15:3, etc.). They even used the exact title “King of Heaven” for him (Dan. 4:37; Tob. 1:18, 13:7). The question thus is not whether “Queen of Heaven” was once used for a pagan deity, but whether it can have a different and appropriate sense.

There's a difference between worship and honer

@colepriceguitar1153

2 жыл бұрын

And Catholics do both to Mary.

I have been watching these videos for a while and You know what, I have come to the conclusion....who cares what the Protestant’s/Baptist’s/Anglicans & Born Agains opinions are on how us Catholics pray..there not part of church and never will be!! I’m tired of feeling like I have to justify this or being made to feel like it is wrong to pray/worship/devote to Mary and saints! The Virgin Mary has performed many miracles and apparitions to us Catholics, as have the saints! Yes, we do pray to them and worship them, through Gods LOVE AND INTERCESSION!!! God BLESS THEM!!!

@iseegood5609

4 жыл бұрын

I appreciate your honesty. I ask you to please consider why the men in this video have not been as honest as you.

@iseegood5609

4 жыл бұрын

Maybe they are being honest but in error

@TheMac813

3 жыл бұрын

You know as a Catholic I have been struggling with thinking about how to defend Mary with protestants, but you're right. Who cares what they think. They are outside the Church.I will try sharing it if they are open, but if they are arrogant, no go. Mary embodies humility, which the devil cannot stand. I think about a quote from Montfort: "If you don't have Mary as your mother, you cannot have God as your father." If we would go to Italy, we would see many Marian shrines. However, in the Puritanical, Iconoclastic USA, we have this subconscious hesitation even in our Catholic Churches. If the saints did it, I think we'll be safe. There is also no logic in the protestant heresy. Why would Jesus condemn us to hell for praying to his mother? She is the perfect follower of Christ. One of the Church fathers even said: "If we don't pray to Mary, we will not have wings to get to heaven" or something like that. God Bless you Joseph. Ave Maria

@fhjrpn

2 жыл бұрын

For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus - 1 Timothy 2:5 And when they say to you, “Inquire of the mediums and the necromancers who chirp and mutter,” should not a people inquire of their God? Should they inquire of the dead on behalf of the living? To the teaching and to the testimony! If they will not speak according to this word, it is because they have no dawn. - Isaiah 8:19-20 The logical solution is always God. So talk to him always. There is no need to talk to Mary, Moses, Abraham, Peter...just Jesus. This also doens't mean you can't respect them, but there is only one mediator, Jesus, the word of God. I understand the tiredness of explaining something over and over again, and it comes to mind this verse: But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander. For it is better, if it is God’s will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil. 1 Peter 3:15-17 In the end our whole focus is on God, He is more than enough for us. And I'm happy in the hope to see all the saints in heaven worshipping God. It is written: “ ‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God.’ ” - Romans 14:11

@noahgaming8833

11 ай бұрын

@@fhjrpn A surface reading of I Timothy 2:5 would seem to eliminate the idea of Christians “mediating” graces to one another: “There is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ.” Protestants will argue, “If Jesus is our one mediator, then Christ alone mediates grace. In saying anyone else can, Catholics are usurping and thereby denying Christ’s singular role as mediator. That’s blasphemy!” The Catholic Response: Much to the surprise of many Protestants I have spoken to over the years, the Catholic Church actually acknowledges Christ to be our one and absolutely unique mediator who alone can reconcile us to the Father in a strict sense. In his classic, The Catholic Catechism, Fr. John Hardon explains: … the Incarnation corresponds to mediation in the order of being, and the Redemption (remission of sin and conferral of grace) is mediation morally. This kind of mediation is incommunicable. No one but the Savior unites in himself the divinity, which demands reconciliation, and the humanity, which needs to be reconciled. Protestants generally agree with us on this point. However, Fr. Hardon goes on to say: Nevertheless, lesser and subordinate mediators are not excluded. The question is what purpose they serve and in what sense do they mediate. They can help the cause of mediation in the only way that human beings (or creatures) can contribute to the work of salvation, namely, by their willing response to grace; either better disposing themselves or others for divine grace, or interceding with God to give his grace, or freely cooperating with grace when conferred. The “lesser and subordinate mediators” is where the trouble starts. And yet, the context of I Timothy 2:5 demonstrates Fr. Hardon’s point. In the first two verses, St. Paul commands “supplications, prayers and intercessions to be made for all men…” Intercession is a synonym for mediation. Hebrews 7:24-25 refers to Jesus acting as our one mediator at the right hand of the Father and refers to him as intercessor: But [Christ] holds his priesthood permanently, because he continues forever. Consequently, he is able for all time to save those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them. Christ is our one mediator/intercessor, yet, St. Paul commands all Christians to be intercessors/mediators. Then notice the first word in verse five: “For there is one God and one mediator…” And then in verse seven he says, “For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle.” What is an apostle if not a mediator? The very definition of apostle, according to Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, is “a delegate, messenger, one sent forth with orders.” That’s an essential part of what a mediator is. In short, St. Paul says we are all called to be mediators because Christ is the one mediator and for this reason he was called to be a mediator of God’s love and grace to the world! Is this a contradiction? Not at all! The fact that Jesus is our one mediator does not preclude him from communicating this power by way of participation. The Bible also declares: “But you are not to be called Rabbi, for you have one teacher, (Gr. - didaskolos) and you are all brethren.” This text cannot be any clearer, yet James 3:1 and Ephesians 4:11 tell us we have many teachers (Gr. - didaskoloi) in the Church. The key is to understand that the many teachers and mediators in the body of Christ do not take away from Christ as the one teacher and mediator because they are, in a sense, Christ on this earth and they serve to establish his offices of teacher and mediator in him. As members of the body of Christ graced with a specific task by Christ they can say with St. Paul in Galatians 2:20, “It is not I, but Christ who [teaches] in me…” And remember, we are not talking about necessity here. The Church is not claiming Christ couldn’t get the job done so he needed help. Of course not! He could do it all-and all by himself-if he wanted to. He could come down here right now and write this blog post much more effectively than I ever could. But he chooses not to do everything himself, strictly speaking. He delights in using his body to communicate his life and love to the world. The Body Beautiful Perhaps the most important image for the People of God in Scripture for understanding our topic, whether we are talking about the “mediation of all grace” with reference to the Mother of God, or the mediation of graces through the prayers and sufferings of other members of the Church, is given to us in I Corinthian 12, when St. Paul describes the Church as a body. CCC 753: In Scripture, we find a host of interrelated images and figures through which Revelation speaks of the inexhaustible mystery of the Church. The images taken from the Old Testament are variations of a profound them: the People of God. In the New Testament, all these images find a new center because Christ has become the head of this people, which henceforth is his Body. Around this center are grouped images taken from the life of the shepherd or from cultivation of the land, from the art of building or from family life and marriage. The Old Testament has beautiful images for the People of God. They are shown to be God’s bride (cf. Jer. 3:1-14); They are children of a God who is revealed to be their “father” (cf. Mal. 1:6), and more. But with the advent of Christ these analogies were brought to a whole new level unthinkable to the Old Testament mindset (cf. CCC 239-240). God was revealed to be “like” a father in the Old Testament. In the New, he is revealed to be Father within the eternal relations of the godhead. Through our mystical union with Christ through baptism, we become sons and daughters of God whereby we can truly call God “Abba”-father (cf. Gal. 4:4-7). We become brothers and sisters of Christ and true sons of Mary (cf. Romans 8:14-17; John 19:27-Rev. 12:17). The concept of “bride” reaches new heights when we speak of the Church as the “bride” of Christ (cf. Eph. 5:24-32). But even more radically, “we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another” (Romans 12:5), whereby we are caught up into the very inner life of God as members of Christ’s body by grace (cf. Eph. 2:5-6), and by virtue of that fact we have been made to be “partakers of the divine nature” as II Peter 1:4 says. It is this image of “the Body of Christ” that aids us in understanding how one member of the body can aid another in the communication of the divine life to one another without diminishing the role of “the head.” For example, if I pick up a pen here on my desk would we say “the head,” or “I,” would have had nothing to do with it? “Oh no, your hand did that, Tim, not you!” So it is with Christ and his Body. Eph. 1:22-23 goes so far as to say the Church is, “The fullness of him who fills all in all.” Thus, the Church is Christ in this world. This does not take away from Christ’s unique mediation; it establishes that unique mediation. Different members of the Church mediate various graces in accordance with their respective gifts while the whole body functions to bring Christ to the world. Romans 12:4-6 says: For as in one body we have many members, and all the members do not have the same function, so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us. And this radical union with Christ and with the other members of the Body of Christ does not cease at death. Romans 8:35-38 tells us, among other things, “neither death nor life… shall be able to separate us from the love of Christ.” Thus, those alive on earth can still benefit from-they are still connected to-the other members of the Body of Christ in heaven. Is Christ our one, true mediator? Absolutely! And it is this same Christ who has chosen to use his Body to mediate God’s grace to the world in and through him.

MATT!!!! PLEASE SET UP A PFA STORE! I will give you $100 JUST for the cup!

Dulia, hyperdulia, and latria. These words and concepts need to re-enter the language and mind.

@gamers7800

4 жыл бұрын

True, when you speak them aloud in holy reverence you realize how beautiful they sound. Latria belongs to God alone Hyperdulia is reserved for the mother of God. Funny how words can have a beauty all their own.

@iseegood5609

4 жыл бұрын

Faith, Hope and Love. Jesus loves so perfectly, His words need to be written on our hearts. They are written in the Bible for sure.

I'm a non denominational Christian just trying to understand what Catholics believe. Why do you "Hail Mary" after reading Matthew 12:46-50?

@bazzy8376

2 жыл бұрын

What's that got to do with Mary? Jesus has been telling people that the new kingdom, the new covenant is for everybody. It's based on faith in the good news. It is no longer an ethnic thing. You are no longer chosen because of your bloodlines or tribe. It is purely about picking up your cross and following Jesus. Baptism brings you into the family of God, not DNA. Who are Jesus brothers? Rev 12: 17 "Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring-those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus."

I think CS Lewis would be on your side of the argument about whether Jesus had to be incarnate of a human. Miracles are Godly shortcuts...not magic.

I think the big problem Protestants have with Mary is the question, “Why do I have to go through her? Why can’t I go directly to the source (Jesus)?” The overarching “ Communion of the Saints” issue here is a very Catholic concept, that it is through others that we participate in our loving life with Christ, a fairly foreign idea to Protestants, consequently. As for Mary, she is prayed to, not worshipped, because she is the primary intercessionary to Jesus. It was through her he became flesh, and it was she who first urged him to perform his first miracle (loaves and fishes), thus initiating his glorious ministry. Praying to Mary is a way of going through the channels when one feels the big ask is just too huge to ask of a Jesus. Not that going straight to Jesus isn’t wrong, it’s perfectly healthy. I guess it’s fair to say that going to Mary, who is closest to him, just might give you that extra edge, that extra nudge, to get closer to Christ, because she herself launched him, literally and figuratively. ❤️

@brando3342

4 жыл бұрын

@Susannah Mcclellan Can you please look up the definition of "prayer"? If God is closer to us then the air we breathe, how can Mary get us closer by praying to her?

@monicatorres4965

4 жыл бұрын

Except that when the bible talks about getting closer to God it never even once use Mary as a way to do it. The bible mentions denying yourself and obedience... the only mediator between God and man is JESUS 1 Timothy 2:1-15

@j.g.4942

4 жыл бұрын

As I understand, 'Lutheran's' (also holding tight the true physical communion with the glorified body and blood of Christ and so all saints at warfare and all saints at rest) would describe prayer in this trinitarian way: The Christian prays to God the Father, through Jesus the Son, by the strength of the Holy Spirit. For Jesus teaches to pray to 'Our Father in Heaven' (Matthew 6:9), Jesus is our mediator (Hebrews 9:15; 2 natures, the only one/place where God and man are reconciled), and Jesus promised the Spirit to help (John 14:16; Romans 8:26) That Mary is already with me and all Christians united in Christ, our righteousness and redemption. She is far wiser than I and certainly more capable not hampered by the attacks of the devil, so I trust her and all the saints who have gone before to know what I, all Christians, and the whole world need praying for that all the time and as we join them in the prayer of the church every Sunday. Just some thoughts from a true descendant of the protestants at Speyer, and arguably Pentecost.

@FormidableSantiago

4 жыл бұрын

@@brando3342 because just as God is pure than air imagine the body of Mary when she had the son of God, Jesus Plus in the bible it mentions that the prayers of the righteous are most effective and in the gospel of Luke Elizabeth said that mary is the most blessed out of any woman.

@iseegood5609

4 жыл бұрын

Susannah. Hi, I love you, Jesus loves you more and is sufficient to provide you everything you need to be saved. Please continue to read the Bible and see what Jesus and the rest of God's written word to man says. I do not want to argue. I think you assume a big problem exists within protestantism because you were taught to think that way, but I could be wrong about you. Jesus knows, God in the flesh said to pray to the Father. Please invest in a KJV and Geneva Bible and read the scriptures allowing the Holy Spirit to guide you to all Truth. Protestants are sinners, Catholics are sinners. Religion can be used to deceive, it has been. The Bible is true. Jesus is Truth. Mary was a human being who gave birth to Jesus Christ the Son of God, I have no problem with her, but she needed a savior just like the rest of us, she even said so herself. Thank God he used her to give birth to Jesus, she couldn't have done it without God doing so, and without Jesus we wouldn't be here to either argue about it or do what said and follow Him.

Please don't misunderstand me. I have the greatest respect for Mary, and I honor her as the Theotokos(Mother of God in the flesh).This may be slightly off topic, but it is at the same time, related. Catholics, Orthodox, and even some Protestants teach that Mary remained a virgin all her life. In John 2: 13-17 we read about Jesus cleansing the temple. Verse 17 reads, " His disciples remembered that it was written, Zeal for your house will consume me. That's a quote from Psalm 69. It's a prophetic Psalm about the Messiah. In verses 7-9, it reads, " For it is for Your sake that I have borne reproach, that dishonor has covered My face. I have become a stranger to My brothers, an alien to My mother's sons. For zeal for Your house has consumed Me." This is very clear proof that the mother of the Messiah had other sons and those sons had alienated themselves from Him because the Scripture says in John 7: 5 " For not even His brothers believed in Him." That doesn't take away from her honor at all and it's still true that all generations of believers still call her blessed.

@jakinmiller3222

3 жыл бұрын

You are correct that this is a very similar topic. In any case where terms seem to contradict, it is often helpful to look at the original language (I'm not sure what it would be in this case) to see what the original words for "brother" and "son" are. Often times the words are slightly different than the english translation. Also, as a counter example, if Jesus had brothers then why did he entrust his mother to St. John after he died (John 19:26-27)? If he had brothers then one of them would have taken her into his house according to custom. Because of that, and the fact that Jesus actually used the generic word for disciple instead of specifically referencing John, I would be more inclined to think that the Psalm you are referencing is referring to all Christian's as Jesus's brothers/sisters and Mary's sons/daughters.

@jamestrotter3162

3 жыл бұрын

@@jakinmiller3222 He entrusted His mother to John's care because John was a believer and none of His brothers were yet.

@noahgaming8833

Жыл бұрын

@@jamestrotter3162 i feel like it’s still a problem, Jesus doesn’t say this is now one of your sons, and if he did have brothers, i feel like the brothers would have a problem with them not being chosen to take care of their mom, but let a stranger do so.

How did God generate human nature without having it himself? God can’t be placed in a box based on our intellect. God could have redeemed us in any way he chose. Love the fittingness comment. It was fitting but not necessary.

God can raise up sons of Abraham from these stones .. I’m imagining that means they could genetically be descendants without the natural order of things . Christ then could have taken up fallen man’s flesh without an immediate parent of any sort but instead chose Mary for His / our mother

Could we also say that those in the old testament worshipped (hyperdulia) the angels by throwing themselves down on their face out of respect?

@AveChristusRex

4 жыл бұрын

They even did this to humans, such as Kings or masters. It wasn't unique to angels, even if angels had a divine majesty and fearsomeness which prompted a heightened version of the same (in Revelation for example, the angel must be so glorious or fearsome that John bows down in what is implied to be actual worship of him, which the angel forbids him to do). However, even though angels received a higher reverence than humans, it wouldn't be called hyperdulia per the technical doctrinal sense, because this was coined, as it were, of a distinct category of reverence due to the Theotokos, and which even angels are not deserving of. It's true that angels are more glorious and more powerful than Mary by nature - almost to an infinite degree, one might say. However, by grace Mary was raised above nature, especially in, and for, her being the Theotokos (the Mother of God).

@monicatorres4965

4 жыл бұрын

Yes an every time the angels rejected that behavior

@AveChristusRex

4 жыл бұрын

​@@monicatorres4965 The only kind of worship rejected is divine worship ('you are the reason for your own gloriousness/you are the reason for the glory of this revelation'). Not revering a creature about 1000 times more honorable and close to God than yourself, which is right and proper.

@monicatorres4965

4 жыл бұрын

@@AveChristusRex there are no kinds of worship, is very clear when someone is being reverent and respectful, and when they are worshipping.

@AveChristusRex

4 жыл бұрын

@@monicatorres4965 The English word "worship" translates several words in the original languages, which are clear. What is not distinguished in older translations of English, is clear in the original, where two different words are used. In modern translations you might see "bowed himself before the king," whereas in older translations you might see, "worshiped the king." For example, the Magi coming to "worship" the new king. They didn't know he was God come in the flesh, they came to _reverence_ the new king.

I mean he created human nature so I think he could create a vessel without a human to give Christ that human nature, however I prefer the way took human form through Mary.

We are not worshiping the Saints! The council of Trent made the distinction between the cult of dulia which is veneration and the cult of Latria which is adoration.

A liturgical argument against praying to saints is the fact that people pray to saints and they pray to God. They do not think about these things on as deep a level as you do and by the very practice these saints are elevated higher than they should be. Saints are also just forgiven sinners, all glory be to God.

@derechoplano

4 жыл бұрын

Yes, this is basically the Protestant point of view, which equates praying with worshiping. "To pray" is only an old English verb that means "to ask" or "to request" and can be applied to all kinds of humans and in secular contexts. We Catholics worship through the sacraments (mass, communion, confession, etc.) while we pray (ask) to God, saints (intercessory) and fellow Christians (also intercessory, as Protestants do). We elevate God through worshiping in the sacraments. As the video explains, since the Protestants removed the sacraments, the treatment of God and the treatment of saints became more similar. This explains the Protestant position.

Was a catholic for 27 years grade school,high school,young adulthood, Declaring mary queen of the angels,queen of heaven,saying novenas in her honor,praying rosaries to her, Wearing “miraculous medals “ with her image on them,wearing scapulas also with her image on them, Bowing to statues of her,declaring her queen of the month of may,queen of heaven, Making her co-redeemer with JESUS, Saying she was conceived without sin,saying she was taken bodily up to heaven ,no proof in either case. only mentioned a dozen times in their own bible,and except for the birth and nursing of JESUS,of no notoriety. If catholics want to worship mary,go right ahead,just don’t lie about it.

@apubakeralpuffdaddy392

Жыл бұрын

Ha, we meet again, saved by grace. Ha ha ha! You were a Catholic for 27 years? You should get a refund on your education because you never really understood what you had. Protestant Elders / Ministers who became Catholic: kzread.info/dash/bejne/damimrack8mbiM4.html Scott Hahn former Presbyterian MInister & Theologian start @ 10 min mark kzread.info/dash/bejne/hHhhlaWDj9Gflqg.html Scott Hahn former Presbyterian MInister & Theologian start @ 18 min mark kzread.info/dash/bejne/f4CnpLiLnpS7j5M.html Tim Staples Marine Corps Vet, former YouthPentecostal Minister kzread.info/dash/bejne/hGmCtpVriZCzos4.html David Anders Former Presybterian Elder kzread.info/dash/bejne/o5yklc2jmLWrZ9Y.html Steve Ray Former Baptist Elder kzread.info/dash/bejne/Ymp6lstthNe5YcY.html John Bergsma Former Dutch Reformed Church Minister kzread.info/dash/bejne/gaOixMSSZ8XIldo.html Marcus Grodi former Presbyterian Minister 2 10 more verses that I never saw kzread.info/dash/bejne/dn54uK2MdpqumtI.html Marcus Grodi 1 former Presbyterian Minister 10 Verses that I never saw kzread.info/dash/bejne/dYyi17ygo7WqZKw.html Matt Fradd & 3 young converts kzread.info/dash/bejne/dqF9xaRpadHIgLg.html Dean Waldt former Presbeyterian Minister kzread.info/dash/bejne/n3WMtpmSkbW0ptY.html Megan Ex Evangelical kzread.info/head/PLpoCdlFv52_bF01kubBfs0fonciXheHet Catholic Conversion Stories hosted by Megan

Where is the line between veneration and worship? Example: does it cross the line to kiss the feet of a statue during the course of a wedding ceremony?

@flearhcp

4 жыл бұрын

Kissing feet of statues and icons are acts of veneration. Oddly enough those actions actually increase my love for them . Just as affection to friends increase bond.

@brando3342

4 жыл бұрын

@@flearhcp I find it creepy.

@brando3342

4 жыл бұрын

@@flearhcp Also, still wondering where the line is.

@lawrencemunz3068

4 жыл бұрын

@@brando3342 I understand intellectually the distinction. I worry that in practice maintaining the distinction requires a high degree of discipline, and our priests are often less than helpful in maintaining this discipline.

@brando3342

4 жыл бұрын

@@lawrencemunz3068 So, your question is more "How do you maintain the distinction in practice" then, right?

1 Tim 2:5-6 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time. Isiah 8:19 And when they say to you, “Inquire of the mediums and the necromancers who chirp and mutter,” should not a people inquire of their God? Should they inquire of the dead on behalf of the living? John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. Deuteronomy 18:End of 11 or one who inquires of the dead (this word inquire in Hebrew also means to ask for, to seek in prayer) Mat 6:9 Pray then like this: “Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. (Not mother, beware of the enemy inserting ancient error to reprise things such as the Queen of Heaven) 1 Pet 3:12 For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayer. Rom 3:23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 1 Per 5:7 Casting all your anxieties on him, because he cares for you. Mark 7:7 In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.

How are Mary and the saints able to hear people pray?

@YiriUbic3793

3 жыл бұрын

Crux sacra sit mihi lux! Nunquam draco sit mihi dux! Vade retro Satana! Nunquam suade mihi vana! Sunt mala quae libas. Ipse venena bibas!

@YiriUbic3793

3 жыл бұрын

Crux sacra sit mihi lux! Nunquam draco sit mihi dux! Vade retro Satana! Nunquam suade mihi vana! Sunt mala quae libas. Ipse venena bibas!

@NicklasNylander87

3 жыл бұрын

The Church is the body of Christ, when saints die they go to be with Christ. And where he is, so also will his servants be. (John 15 - I think... might be wrong on the chapter.)

@therock7233

3 жыл бұрын

So, how can they hear the prayers of the people?

@NicklasNylander87

3 жыл бұрын

@@therock7233 they are united with Christ

Just worship the Lord your God and our Savior Jesus. Worshipping and praying to anyone else else is simply heresy and nothing else.

@Dienekes678

10 ай бұрын

And that is why Catholics don't worship the Blessed Virgin Mary or the Saints.

Where is Capturing Christianityyyyyyyyyy

There's no way these priests should be worshiping an idol who is names Mary. It's just wrong!!

@apubakeralpuffdaddy392

Жыл бұрын

I agree. And priests don't do that.

This all seems post-hoc in its reasoning Praying to the saints didn't originate from someone desiring to fulfill scripture; it came from someone wanting to do it. Then that someone and their friends tried to look for verses in the Bible that would make excuses for why they do it. It's idolatry. And it's contradictory. Catholics argue "we are able to pray to the saints because God has connected us to them." But if God is your connection, why do you need to circumvent Him and pray to others? I've never seen protestants get in groups and tell their pastor "pray for us". But Catholics do get in groups and tell the air "Mary, sustain us" in the way we usually tell God to sustain us. It's weird. It should be seriously pondered by every Catholic.

@noahgaming8833

Жыл бұрын

Could you find that source please?

@noahgaming8833

Жыл бұрын

Depends on how you pray. IDOLATRY is: “Hail Mary, You are God the Creator. I worship you…” No Catholic ever prays this way! Let’s now analyze if the “Hail Mary” prayer is idolatrous: “Hail Mary, full of grace! The Lord is with you.” (Lk 1:28) ← quoting Scriptures (Yes, Catholics do quote Scriptures.) “Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb Jesus” (Lk 1:42) ← quoting Scriptures “Holy Mary, Mother of God” ← Ecumenical Council of Ephesus declaration (431 C.E.) “Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death.” ← asking Mary to pray or intercede for us sinners So, the first half of the “Hail Mary” quotes Scriptures which means the first half is biblical. NOT A SIN. The second half confesses that Mary is the Mother of the Incarnate God. NOT A SIN OF IDOLATRY since it was a formal resolution from Council of Ephesus. We next ask her to pray or intercede for us. That’s no different than saying, “Hey my mom is sick. Will you pray for her too?” NOT A SIN because we believe that we are in communion with the angels and saints when partaking of the body and blood of Christ. There’s a sense of rallying cry for community support and aid. NOT A SIN.

@noahgaming8833

Жыл бұрын

You might ask, “Why bother honoring Mary when we could be praying directly to Jesus?” Even so, when we ask people on earth to pray for us, no one says, “Why do you ask people to pray for you when you could pray directly to Jesus?” We recognize that when other people pray for us, it helps us grow closer to Jesus. Praying to Mary is not a substitute for prayer to Jesus. Instead, we ask Mary to pray for us, for who can better intercede for us that someone who is so close to Jesus? Furthermore, Mary always points to Jesus. John 2:1-11 tells the story of the wedding feast at Cana. John mentions that Mary was at the wedding, and “Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding” (2:2). This implies that Mary was the primary guest, and Jesus was invited because he was connected to Mary. Likewise, when we invite Mary into our lives, she always brings Jesus with her. When Mary becomes aware that the bride and groom have run out of wine, she immediately intercedes for the couple, bringing their problem to Jesus. She tells the servants, “Do whatever he tells you” (2:5). Likewise, Mary always tells us to do what Jesus tells us, and she brings Jesus to us so we can hear his voice telling us what to do. Mary does not distract from Jesus at all! She always points to Jesus and brings Jesus to us, just as she brought Jesus into the world by saying yes to God’s invitation to bear Jesus in her womb.

@noahgaming8833

Жыл бұрын

Thus, in Psalm 103 we pray, “Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!” (Ps. 103:20-21). And in the opening verses of Psalms 148 we pray, “Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!” Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In the book of Revelation, John sees that “the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints” (Rev. 5:8). Thus the saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth. Angels do the same thing: “[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God” (Rev. 8:3-4). Jesus himself warned us not to offend small children, because their guardian angels have guaranteed intercessory access to the Father: “See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven” (Matt. 18:10). Because he is the only God-man and the mediator of the New Covenant, Jesus is the only mediator between man and God (1 Tim. 2:5), but this in no way means we cannot or should not ask our fellow Christians to pray with us and for us (1 Tim. 2:1-4). In particular, we should ask the intercession of those Christians in heaven, who have already had their sanctification completed, because “[t]he prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects” (Jas. 5:16). As the following passages show, the early Church Fathers not only clearly recognized the biblical teaching that those in heaven can and do intercede for us, but they also applied this teaching in their own daily prayer life. Hermas “[The Shepherd said:] ‘But those who are weak and slothful in prayer, hesitate to ask anything from the Lord; but the Lord is full of compassion, and gives without fail to all who ask him. But you, [Hermas,] having been strengthened by the holy angel [you saw], and having obtained from him such intercession, and not being slothful, why do not you ask of the Lord understanding, and receive it from him?’” (The Shepherd 3:5:4 [A.D. 80]).

@gianni206

Жыл бұрын

@@noahgaming8833 I’m sorry, this is kinda weird given I just owned you in a previous (very long) conversation (that you still haven’t even finished), so I’m well-aware whatever argument I give you will still disregard and argue in bad faith with pedants, so how exactly am I supposed to respond to all of this besides mentioning the elephant in the room? Like you clearly don’t want actual answers or a conversation and are just looking to have an argument 😐

I can’t find anywhere in the word of God giving worship to anyone other than Jesus himself

Luke 11:27-28 King James Version 27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. 28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

Anyone who is remotely familiar with ancient Christianity knows that Catholic and Orthodox Christians *do not* worship Mary. Venerating her, and asking her for intercession *is not worshipping her.* Why pray to Mary? Well, why do you ask your friends and family to pray for you? Yes, it's the *exact* same thing. All it takes is approximately thirty seconds of serious thought before this stuff starts to make sense. Protestants are set in their ways because they've never had to defend their incredibly thin arguments against any authoritative spokesperson.

@christiandpaul631

4 жыл бұрын

To ask friends to pray for you doesn't involve calling their name 53 times with a set of beads.

@Emper0rH0rde

4 жыл бұрын

@@christiandpaul631 Oh well then, I guess you know more about the Christian faith than the Christian church that has been around for 2,000 years.

@iseegood5609

4 жыл бұрын

@@Emper0rH0rde The Bible has been around longer than Roman Catholicism. Ecclesia (Church) is believers called out by God by Him giving the free gift of faith. Abel was in the true Church. Read Hebrews, please read the Bible. Jesus loves you, the Pope may but I have scriptural and other historical evidence to put me in doubt of that. I have no love for a thought or idea, God loves people not man-made institutions. If you seek humbly you will find that many protestants have defended belief in scripture with reason, passion and their own blood shed by so-called authoritative spokesman claiming to be the vicar of Christ.

@jackcarraway4707

Жыл бұрын

You do realize communicating to the dead is considered a sin right?

@traddytradderson822

Жыл бұрын

@@iseegood5609 the Catholic Church compiled and canonized the scriptures. Without the Church there is no bible.

Why there is a need even to pray to Mary. Is not God enough.

@bazzy8376

2 жыл бұрын

There isn't a need. There's a desire. We Christians are a community, one body. "When 2 or 3 are gathered.." There are millions of saints in heaven that do nothing but pray all day. Why not pray with, or for me? The saints are reigning with Jesus the king. They are His servants. They have jobs to do. God knows that they are already victorious wheras we are still in the struggle. Various saints are known for various strengths. So you can ask them to support you in prayer for your current struggle in those areas. There is no support that God wouldn't give us to defeat evil on earth. That's what His servants in heaven do. Mary just happens to be the greatest of all saints. Closest to Jesus. Jesus came to us through her. She gave her free will "yes" so that all of us could have Jesus in the flesh. Mary is the mother of the church "John, behold your mother" John represents the church at the cross and in Revelation. Notice this. Who consoles John? Jesus? an angel? nope. Rev 5:3 "But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. 4 I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. 5 Then one of the ELDERS said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”

@Ampwich

Ай бұрын

​@@bazzy8376What tells you that John in that moment represents the church and isn't just him being entrusted to care for her in Jesus' absence?

Mariology.

Well, you do carry around a giant Marry statue.. so there's that. Certainly puts her up on a pedestal that's for sure. Seems to make a graven image one might say.

@brando3342

4 жыл бұрын

@Boscos_box I don't pray to my deceased family to intercede in prayer for me. Big difference I think. "Is a bible a graven object qua object?" No, the Bible IS the image of God. It's the understanding that is what we mean by "image", however, Mary is not that express image. You don't get God's message from learning about Mary. You get that understanding from Jesus. That's why I call it a "graven image", because it is a physical representation of something or someone who does not contain the full understanding of God. That is only found in Christ alone.

@brando3342

4 жыл бұрын

@Qwerty "No, you can't reduce God to a book. " I didn't say that, I said the understanding garnered from the book is the "image of God". "What I've normally hear from protestants is that since the Bible is indeed the word of God then that's the end of God's involvement with the world" I don't believe that.

@flearhcp

4 жыл бұрын

Hey brando , check out hebrews 9:4.

@brando3342

4 жыл бұрын

Marcus Chung Checked it out. Not seeing the correlation.

@flearhcp

4 жыл бұрын

@@brando3342 hey brando , i replied to the wrong thread. this was meant for the other one about the ark of the covenant.

I've never heard a prominent catholic openly admit that veneration is worship, as Fr. Gregory does here. He says, in his own words, that there is worship for God via adoration and worship for saints via veneration - but that both are worship. As someone who really wishes I could be catholic in good conscience, this is a blatant admission of idolatry. The pagans worshipped Ba'al and Ishtar in ways other than simply sacrifices, so to say that only sacrifices to other beings crosses the line is unbiblical.

@Maria_J_

11 ай бұрын

It’s in the medieval sense of the word, though, which comes from “worth-ship,” meaning they’re worthy to be honored. In that sense, one of the Ten Commandments orders is to “worship” our father and mother- It’s just recognizing that they deserve honor.

Carrying Jesus for 9 months doesn't make Mary special, and definitely no more special than any other servant chosen to do task; there isn't even a book of Mary. Neither did Mary get superhuman abilities to hear millions of Catholic prayers when she died. The reason this is a tough topic is because a lot of Catholics feel this is wrong. But if the Catholic church admits one thing is wrong, they're worried this will cause Catholics to question other things.

@apubakeralpuffdaddy392

Жыл бұрын

Honor thy Father & they Mother. Don't you believe in that Commandment? Is Jesus your brother? Wouldn't that make Mary your mother? Do you not honor her? Luke 1:46 "All generations shall call my Blessed". Why do you not fulfill this Biblical prophecy? Even Luther & Calvin prayed the Rosary.

God had stated through Isaiah a virgin would conceive. So because He is not a liar, no the seed of the woman, the promised messiah could not just come about "however". Quit worrying about what is most apologetically effective to draw people to a religious system and learn the Truth from the Bible. We can have adequate communication with God the Father by praying to Him in Jesus Christ's name. As Jesus taught His disciples to. I hope these men are just misguided in implying Jesus does not provide everything we need, and not deliberately putting traditions of men above Jesus Christ's very words.

Sorry guys I know you’re very knowledgeable in theology and eloquent, but in this video you go on many tangents. Please better explain to Protestants the reasons why Mary is important

Because if it wasn't for Mary, Jesus would not be born, and us Catholics Treasure her as one of the Holiest, most Sacred that received the ultimate gift from God.

@bluey3538

Жыл бұрын

True, but what a lot of catholics are doing is called worshipping even though they deny it. I looked up the definition of prayer, worship, veneration. It all adds up. Honor her but doing what catholic are doing right now is just too much

@noahgaming8833

Жыл бұрын

@@bluey3538 one the Ten Commandments is to honor your mother and father and show respect to them, so we would supposedly not only be venerating them, but worshiping them.

@apubakeralpuffdaddy392

Жыл бұрын

@@bluey3538 Or is it that you Protestants are not doing enough? Why do ignore the prophecy in Luke 1:46?

This is comment 667

Oh for goodness sake!!!!!!!!!! I have read all these comments and I am just exhausted with such bloody nonsense. Talk about read and twist scripture. Talk about find every dam excuse under the son to define worship, pray, or what idolatry is. Reading all these comments is like trying to take a PhD in Philosophy, Psychology and Theology all at once. I am completely done with it!!!!!! You know what? I'm thinking of sticking with The Fuel Projects synopsis of the Catholic and Protestant views of what is true. The fact that the Catholic Church was so horrendously evil when it first started up with paganism mixed in is enough to make me reject it. At least thats how I feel now. To think the Catholic Church h deliberately withheld the word of God being printed so that everyday people could read for themselves, the Catholic Church burned men at the stake for trying to get the word of God out!!!! The Catholic Church refused to cooperate. It was Al about power. Taming money too for the forgiveness of sins. Everywhere you go in catholism is Mary EVERYWHERE. Do I think she's special absolutely 💯 but I am.jot isolisimg her. WE DO NOT NEED HER HELP to get to God. Jesus christ dying on the cross and his resurrection has paved the way as our God wanted it to be so. Catholism to me comes Cross as a club with all these rituals to perform and so bloody complex. Do I think there are problems in the protestant Church as well? Yes, definitely. But at the end of the day, I am praying to Jesus Christ. Him only.

The problem is that so many catholics dont even speak directly to God ever... if Mary is taking over all your interactions with God... you are not asking her to pray for you as you would ask a friend,... you are using her as a replacement of God. Specially when Jesus says he is the only way to the father... so it does not make sense.

@POCCNRCKNbY

4 жыл бұрын

How’s that? Every decade of the Rosary begins with one prayer directly to God and ends with two. If I like a product and I like going to Target to buy it, there’s nothing wrong with that. I don’t *need* to buy it straight from the manufacturer unless I have a specific reason to.

@monicatorres4965

4 жыл бұрын

@@POCCNRCKNbY your specific reason should be that God is clear about how we should worship him and follow him, and through Mary is not what the Bible says

@RL-es6gg

4 жыл бұрын

"The problem is that so many catholics dont even speak directly to God ever... if Mary is taking over all your interactions with God..." That's a huge exaggeration. But I do agree that there may be over-emphasis on Mary. That said, it's nice to pay reverence to the mother of Jesus. Some Catholics will go too far with it.

@csapienza001

4 жыл бұрын

I would like to ask, truly, how does Monica have any idea of the frequency with which some Catholics talk directly with God? This is done in the quiet of one's heart, not something open to empirical study. If you're so triggered by a person who offers a petition of intercession from the blessed mother that you begin making radical assumptions about a person's whole prayer life shouldn't you first reflect on yourself and whether this agitation (and the subsequent assumption) is coming from a place of anti-Catholoc bias?

@monicatorres4965

4 жыл бұрын

@@csapienza001 I am not anti catholic, actually quiet the opposite, I live in Guatemala maybe Latin American catholics tend to give priority to Mary over Jesus? My family is catholic and I talk with them about it, of course I can't talk for every catholic just like I can't talk for every protestant that is obvious. Discussing this is not hate is actually love, why everyone is so defensive? Would love a response based on escripture instead of you feeling attacked.

Jesus created Mary... Jesus was there before Mary and before creation itself.. even though she was used to bring to Jesus on earth... Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made John 1:3 John 8:56-59 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he was to see the time of my coming; he saw it and was glad.” 57 They said to him, “You are not even fifty years old-and you have seen Abraham?” 58 “I am telling you the truth,” Jesus replied. “Before Abraham was born, ‘I Am’.” 59 Then they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and left the Temple. 1 Timothy 2:5 “There is one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and humanity-the man Christ Jesus.” 1 John 2:22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that JESUS is the CHRIST. Such a person is the ANTICHRIST -denying the FATHER and the SON. JESUS is only way , truth and the life... Mary is blessed and obedient to GOD unlike the people who pray to her.. she herself will be against you for not obeying GOD who said JESUS is the only mediator ... any person who denies this is Antichrist...that's what the bible is saying

This man in white needs to discard the Dominican dogma and read the book to the Romans. The Lord Jesus had to be born of a woman for his suffering and death to be a sufficiently propitiatory. 27 It came to pass, as he said these things, a certain woman out of the crowd lifted up her voice, and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts which nursed you.” 28 But he said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God, and keep it.” Luke 11:27 This was a good opportunity for the Christ to establish the worship or veneration of Mary but He shot it down. Neither did He give her a place to be adore in prayer or song. Besides the catechism there is no scriptural stand for praying or asking the intercession of saints.

Most of the evidence that I hear for the over Exuberant praise of Mary comes from filler from the simple reading of the Bible passages that referred to her. Jesus at no point, nowhere, lifts her up as someone to remember let alone venerate. As for example the centurion who’s servant was healed christ praised him as being someone who had more faith than anyone in Isreal. Jesus had no problem pointing out the greatness of individuals yet according to the Catholic Church Mary acts as Co-Savior. No praise came from Jesus’s lips concerning her. Why? As a matter fact a simple reading of the text shows him almost pushing her away. Saying that the very early church was already venerating Mary is not proof of Any truth. As a matter of fact Paul, Petter and John all had problems with heretical teaching Infiltrating their congregations. So just because something is taught in the second century doesn’t make it correct. Heretical teaching was already there. There Hass to be a lot of philosophical gymnastics to come up with all the attributes the Catholic Church holds towards Mary. The Bible clearly never says she was sinless never says she went bodily into heaven, (I think one of the apostles would’ve mentioned that somewhere!) That she stayed a perpetual virgin. When you have to overly explain a basic reading to support an idea usually you start moving away from the truth Of what was written. When you say that Mary is not worshiped yet millions of people Put candles, incense flowers and Knell in the presence of a statue it’s hard not to call that worship. It looks like worship. I used to be Catholic and knew my catechism pretty well and the emphasis put on Mary far exceeded the emphasis put on Jesus. The Catholic school I went to had statues of Mary but only crucifixion of Jesus. If Mary and Jesus were together it was always her holding him as a baby. Are there statues Of Mary knelling before Christ? He’s God why wouldn’t we show Mary worshiping God. Is she equal to God? Is she equal to the centurion? Or like the centurion is she in need of a Savior. The simple reading I think says it all. Jesus died and rose so that we can have a high priest, a Messiah, King. Nowhere does it support a queen. Mary’s reward for carrying Jesus is her salvation. She like all of us needed a savior because like all of us have sinned and fallen short.

@noahgaming8833

11 ай бұрын

Most Protestant Christians believe that God chose Mary to fulfill his purpose but that Mary was a sinner. She is a vessel, as we are, but not any more worthy of honor than any other Christian. After all, the apostle Paul said, “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God” (Rom. 3:23). In Protestant theology, “all” does not mean ninety percent: “all” means the whole of, or the full number of something. Since Paul was speaking of people, this seemingly nails the case closed against the Catholic doctrine of the Immaculate Conception of Mary. Protestants reject the idea of Mary as a mediator or intercessor. That is the work of Jesus Christ alone, they maintain. “There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Tim. 2:5). Here Paul apparently rebukes any idea of Mary as an intercessor. In addition, Protestants generally reject Mary’s title “Mother of God” as being unbiblical. In the Gospels, we find Mary, Jesus, and some disciples attending a wedding. Mary tells Jesus that they had run out of wine. Jesus’ response to Mary seems as if he is frustrated with her: “Woman, what does this have to do with me?” (John 2:4). By responding “woman,” Jesus doesn’t give the impression that we are to honor or otherwise understand Mary to be anyone particularly special. Furthermore, Protestants believe Catholics worship Mary, an act of idolatry that should be shunned and fought with unbridled severity. As Ven. Fulton J. Sheen once said, “There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church.” Indeed, this is often the case, given the enormous amounts of professional anti-Catholic literature continually produced to attack the Church Jesus established. But the biblical and historical evidence for Marian doctrines is vast. Here are some highlights. Catholics do not worship Mary Perhaps the most common objection and misunderstanding when considering the Catholic faith is the charge that Catholics worship Mary. The Catholic Church condemns worship of anyone but God and God alone: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is a foundational truth and has always been the teaching of the Catholic Church since Jesus established it. Conversely, veneration or showing great respect to Mary is part of the Catholic tradition. St. Maximilian Kolbe said, “Never be afraid of loving the Blessed Virgin Mary too much. You can never love her more than Jesus did, and if anyone does not wish to have Mary Immaculate for his mother, he will not have Christ for his brother.” Loving Mary and imitating her life will lead us closer to her son, Jesus Christ. Mary, worthy of honor The angel Gabriel had no hesitation in greeting Mary with honor. But wait-doesn’t Gabriel offer honor to Mary when that honor should have been given to God alone? The angel sent from God did not have any reservations about honoring Mary. We honor special people every day. We honor soldiers, great presidents, and legendary sports figures. We honor our mother and father, as this is a commandment from God. One would never claim that this honor takes away from honor that belongs to God alone. Surely, Jesus honored his mother and father. How fitting it is to honor the Mother of God as Christ did. We give honor to saints in the family of God without worshiping them. God alone is to be worshiped. This is the teaching of the Catholic Church and has been for 2,000 years. Catholic and Orthodox Christians honor Mary because Jesus honored her, and we are simply disciples who follow Jesus and do as he did. Mary, the model disciple In Luke 1:38, Mary humbly proclaims, “May it be done to me according to your word.” A few verses later, in what is referred to as the Magnificat, Mary’s heart for God is laid bare when she announces, “My soul proclaims the greatness of almighty God. My spirit rejoices in God my savior. For he has looked upon his handmaid’s lowliness. Behold, from now on all generations will call me blessed” (Luke 1:46-55). Shouldn’t every Christian desire to be just like Mary and “proclaim the greatness of almighty God” while shouting from the rooftops how our “spirit rejoices in God [our] savior?” Shouldn’t all authentic disciples of Jesus respond in complete obedience to God as Mary did? Mary is the perfect disciple for every Christian to imitate. Mary in salvation history Evidence for Marian doctrines is found (ironically) in the very place where Protestantism contends it is absent: the Bible. Mary is prefigured in the book of Genesis, she participates with Jesus in the Gospels, and she is observed fighting Satan in the book of Revelation. From the very first pages of the Bible to its last book, Mary’s role in salvation history is astonishing. In Genesis, there is a stunning prophecy. God said, “I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise him on the heel” (Gen. 3:15). This passage is called the Protoevangelium, meaning “first gospel.” It is here we find the first announcement of the Messiah. There is a battle between the serpent and the woman, and we find prophesied the final victory of a descendant of the woman over Satan. Who eventually crushed the head of the serpent? This can only be Jesus, who crushed the head of Satan at the cross of Calvary. Fittingly, the site of Calvary where Jesus defeated Satan means “skull place,” reminiscent of crushing Satan’s head. Because Jesus is the seed or offspring of the woman, who must the woman be? The Blessed Virgin Mary. She is prefigured right here in the beginning of Genesis. In John’s account of the crucifixion, Mary stood near the cross as Jesus said to her, “Dear woman, here is your son,” and to the disciple, “Here is your mother” (John 19:26-27). Mary was not John’s biological mother, yet John is called Mary’s son, and Mary John’s mother! This creates uneasy implications and a dilemma for Protestants who insist we should never call Mary our mother. Nevertheless, the Bible says Mary became the mother of John. The beloved disciple is a model that must be true of all disciples of Jesus, including us. The disciple whom Jesus loved took Mary into his home and became a spiritual son to her. Equally, Mary became the spiritual mother of the beloved disciple. Christians following the model discipleship of the “disciple whom Jesus loved” must ask: am I like the beloved disciple by taking Mary into my home? When we consider how this disciple was faithful in obeying the command of Jesus to receive Mary as his mother, it becomes natural for all Christians to do likewise. In Revelation, there is another exciting connection verifying Mary as the woman and spiritual mother of Christians. “Then the dragon became angry with the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring, those who keep God’s commandments and bear witness to Jesus” (Rev. 12:17). The woman in Revelation has other children who keep the commandments of God and “bear testimony to Jesus” who are Christians. Recalling that Jesus calls Mary the mother of John and John now calls Mary the mother of all Christians, we can easily see the scriptural basis for the acknowledgment of Mary as our spiritual mother and mother of the Church. The woman clothed with the sun John wrote about a woman and a child in Revelation: Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant could be seen in the temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, and peals of thunder, an earthquake, and a violent hailstorm. A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth. Then another sign appeared in the sky; it was a huge red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on its heads were seven diadems. Its tail swept away a third of the stars in the sky and hurled them down to the earth. Then the dragon stood before the woman about to give birth, to devour her child when she gave birth. She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod. Her child was caught up to God and his throne” (Rev. 11:19-12:5). Who is this woman? Who is the woman clothed with the sun? Is she the Church, Mary, or Israel? The woman has a male child who is destined to rule all the nations, an obvious reference to Jesus and his kingship. Jesus was caught up to heaven, which is what apostolic Christianity calls the Ascension. Thus, the identification of the woman clothed with the sun is undoubtedly Mary. For completeness, the woman can also refer to the Church and Israel. In Catholic theology, all of these are valid. In light of these theological truths, it is clear that the biblical reference to woman, who is Mary, is not derogatory but rather a powerful word packed with beautiful meaning that harkens all the way back to the very beginning of God’s salvation plan.

@noahgaming8833

11 ай бұрын

Typology in Sacred Scripture Typology is crucial in understanding relationships that exist between the Old and New Testaments. A type is a person or event in the Old Testament that prefigures or foreshadows a reality in the New Testament. The early Christian theologian St. Augustine recognized this relationship by his observation that “the New Testament lies hidden in the Old and the Old Testament is unveiled in the New.” Many Catholic doctrines are best understood in the framework of typological relationships. Doctrines related to Mary and her place in salvation history are highlighted through the careful study of typology. Irenaeus in the second century explains, “The knot of Eve’s disobedience was loosed by the obedience of Mary.” Irenaeus further articulates, “For what the virgin Eve had bound fast through unbelief, this did the virgin Mary set free through faith.” Mary, the New Eve St. Jerome, in the fourth century, understood the connection between Eve and Mary. He wrote, “Death came through Eve, but life has come through Mary” (Letter to Eustochium 21). Like Jesus, the New Adam, we can see that Mary is the New Eve through a similar contrast: Eve gave birth to death; the New Eve (Mary) gave birth to Life. Eve gave birth to sin; the New Eve gave birth to grace. Eve listened to the serpent; the New Eve listened to the angel. The biblical comparison is clear: Jesus is the New Adam, and Mary is the New Eve. Just as Eve is the mother of all physically alive, Mary the New Eve is the mother of all spiritually alive: Christians. Mary, the Mother of God Elizabeth, John the Baptist’s mother, exclaimed, “And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?” (Luke 1:43). Elizabeth recognizes that Mary is the mother of God. Is Jesus God? Was Mary carrying Jesus in her womb? Did Mary give birth to Jesus? The earliest Christians referred to Mary as Theotokos, a Greek term meaning “God-bearer.” Jesus has two natures, fully human and fully divine. These natures are entirely united, without any division. Since Mary is the mother of Jesus, Mary is appropriately called the “Mother of God.” Church Fathers such as St. Ignatius of Antioch, St. Gregory Nazianzen, and St. Cyril of Alexandria believed and declared Mary the Mother of God. St. Irenaeus said, “The Virgin Mary . . . being obedient to His word, received from an angel the glad tidings that she would bear God” (Against Heresies 5:19:1). Mary, Ark of the New Covenant In the Old Testament, the Ark of the Covenant is described in Exodus as being covered with gold: “Have them make a chest of acacia wood . . . overlay it with pure gold, both inside and out . . . cast four gold rings for it . . . then make poles of acacia wood and overlay them with gold” (Exod. 25:10-13). Likewise, the New Testament describes the Ark of the Covenant as gold-covered: “Behind the second curtain was a room called the Most Holy Place, which had the golden altar of incense and the gold covered Ark of the Covenant” (Heb. 9:3-4). Notice how the Ark of the Covenant is covered with pure gold, both inside and out. Gold is associated with holiness, purity, and consecration to God. This foreshadows the purity, holiness, and consecration to God of the Ark of the New Covenant. The Ark of the Covenant held three items: “the gold jar of manna, Aaron’s staff that had budded, and the stone tablets of the covenant” (Heb. 9:4). Observe the three items contained in the Ark of the Covenant: stone tablets containing the commandments given to Moses, the rod belonging to Aaron, and the bread of heaven (manna) that fed the Israelites. It is easy to see that the Ark of the Covenant can be described as a pure or spotless enclosure holding bread, the word of God, and a priestly staff. Now, what was contained inside Mary? The Word of God, our great High Priest and the Bread of Heaven, which are all analogous to the contents inside the Ark of the Covenant. Furthermore, the Holy Spirit “overshadowed” the Ark of the Covenant, bringing God’s presence to the people. In the New Testament, we discover that the Ark of the New Covenant, Mary, was likewise “overshadowed” with the Holy Spirit (Luke 1:35). As with the Ark of the Covenant, which perpetuated special graces to the people, the Ark of the New Covenant (Mary) also then perpetuates graces to the followers of her Son, Jesus. Since the Ark of the Covenant was created pure inside and out and set aside for divine purpose, Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant, was likewise created pure and holy, set aside for divine purpose. Here we discover the Catholic doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, where Mary is kept pure for a special purpose in God’s redemption plan. For a thousand years, Christians have used this nontheological analogy to visualize how Mary was saved: suppose a man falls into a deep pit, and someone reaches down to pull him out. The man has been “saved” from the pit. Now, imagine a woman walking along, and she too is about to fall into the pit, but at that very moment someone holds her back and prevents her. She too has been “saved” from the pit but in a more profound way. She was not taken out of the pit; she was prevented from getting stained by the mud in the first place. This illustrates how the preservative redemption of Mary and human redemption are, in fact, compatible truths. The Ark of the Covenant was never to be touched by sinful man (2 Samuel 6). Likewise, Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant, was never to be touched by sinful man. From this, the Catholic doctrine of the perpetual virginity of Mary takes shape with great clarity. Mary, queen mother and intercessor What about Mary’s title as queen? The answer is found in understanding the queen mother’s role in the context of the Old Testament. In ancient Israel, it was not the king’s wife who reigned as queen-it was the king’s mother. She wore a crown and advocated for the people. The king’s mother would present requests of the people to the king. In other words, they would seek her intercession on their behalf. As we have seen, Mary appears in Revelation 12 reigning in heaven as the mother of the king. She is wearing a crown on her head. She is clothed with the sun and radiates with the splendor and power of a queen. Therefore, Mary is appropriately given the title of queen, who is able to pray with us and for us. Mary, our help in spiritual battles How do we bridge the gap between the doctrines of Mary and our everyday life? Why are these truths vital to Catholic and Orthodox Christians? The Ark of the Covenant went before the people in battle. In this way, the Ark of the Covenant assisted in overcoming the enemies of Israel and helped to secure victory (e.g., the battle of Jericho). The Ark of the Covenant and God’s presence was a powerful weapon and protection. Turning to Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant, she is likewise a weapon in our spiritual battles. We can and should ask for her intercession to God on our behalf as we fight our spiritual battles here on Earth. Sidebar 1: Do You Believe Your Pastor or Martin Luther? It often comes as a surprise to Protestant fundamentalists that Martin Luther (1483-1546), the founder of the Protestant Reformation, maintained Mary was the “Mother of God” and believed in Mary’s perpetual virginity and immaculate conception. Luther was a Catholic priest and monk before he decided to break from the apostolic Church. One might expect he would have rejected the Church’s teachings about the Virgin Mary, but the opposite is true. Thus, Protestants are left to wiggle on the horns of a sharp dilemma. If you are a Lutheran, Methodist, Baptist, or nondenominational Christian, chances are you reject the perpetual virginity and immaculate conception of Mary. However, the very founder of Protestantism believed both of these doctrines. Should a Protestant believe his individual pastor or Martin Luther? Sadly, Protestantism has departed not only from 2,000 years of apostolic teaching but even its own founder’s teachings. Sidebar 2: The Church Fathers’ Devotion to Mary One cannot read the early Church Fathers without noticing their deep honor for the Virgin Mary. Athanasius of Alexandria (A.D. 295-373), St. Ambrose of Milan (338-397), St. Jerome (347-419), St. Augustine of Hippo (354-430) (depicted at right), and Pope Leo the Great all believed in the perpetual virginity of Mary. Cyril of Jerusalem (315-386) believed Mary was the Mother of God and called her that. He explains, “The Father bears witness from heaven to his Son. The Holy Spirit bears witness, coming down in the form of a dove. The archangel Gabriel bears witness, bringing the good tidings to Mary. The Virgin Mother of God bears witness” (Catechetical Lectures, 10:19). For Cyril, Mary is without question the Mother of God. Similarly, Justin Martyr (105-165), Irenaeus (140-202), and Origen (185-253) believed in the Immaculate Conception of Mary. The Fathers of the Church leave us with certainty that the Blessed Virgin Mary is central in God’s redemptive plan.

Catholic: We don't worship Mary, she is the moon not the sun, the Catethis of the church says we don't, etc Also Catholic: O Mary, Co-Redemptrix, without you we would not be saved, only you are pure and blessed and capable of bringing peace into the world. Can someone seriously bring me to some understanding? I feel I am up against a Motte and Bailey.

@Nikola1791L

2 жыл бұрын

Hi Michael, I understand where you’re coming from, and I’m glad you’re asking instead of dismissing and moving along. If you’re really seeking to know why the Catholic Church holds Mary to such a high regard, I recommend the book “Behold Your Mother” by Tim Staples, a former Protestant minister, now Catholic apologist. He gives an incredibly thorough Scriptural / historical analysis of our understanding of Mary’s role in salvation history. If you don’t have the time or desire to buy and read a whole book, here is a talk he gave based on the book: kzread.info/dash/bejne/dYJ4mqWrYbTIhrQ.html To answer your original comment briefly: The two Catholic quotes you brought forth are in accordance with one another. It may not be appear so at a surface level, but it’s true. “Without you we would not be saved” is accurate; without Mary, we would not have Jesus. Jesus is our savior. Take away Jesus’ mother and you lose Jesus. You could say that Jesus did not need Mary to exist, and that’s true; but God saw it fitting that Mary is the mother of Jesus, and that is how salvation history has taken place by God’s plan. “Only you are capable of bringing peace into the world”. Again, Mary is the conduit that God chose to bring Christ into the world; nobody else has had that unique grace and privilege to be a literal physical bearer of the Divine to the world. That particular prayer is not to say that Jesus is not capable of bringing peace to the world, but rather Jesus is that very peace which Mary brings to us. There are many biblical foundations for Mary’s importance in salvation history you’ll find in the book / talk I linked. She is the new Eve, new Ark of the Covenant, and the Mother of God. I know one KZread comment from a layperson is unlikely to clear up all questions and doubts, but I hope this at least is able to provide some clarity and point you to a good resource if you’d like to know more. Peace and blessings to you brother

@michaelharrington6698

2 жыл бұрын

@@Nikola1791L Thanks for the response! I made the decision a couple months ago or so to join the Church. I am now in RCIA will full intention to join, thanks be to God.

@Nikola1791L

2 жыл бұрын

@@michaelharrington6698 Praise God!! What wonderful news. I went through RCIA last year and it was the best decision I’ve ever made. I’ll pray for you on your journey home!

@Mygoalwogel

2 жыл бұрын

@@michaelharrington6698 So what did you do about worship of Mary? "My Queen and my Mother, *I give myself entirely to you;* and to show my devotion to you, I consecrate to you this day my eyes, my ears, my mouth, my heart, *my whole being without reserve.* Wherefore, good Mother, as *I am your own, keep me, guard me, as your property and possession.* Amen."

@DavidOrtiz-fd2lb

Жыл бұрын

@@michaelharrington6698 welcome home brother. Hope ur catholic journey has been fruitful

1:55 So Catholics do worship Mary and the saints?

yeahhh still not convincing at all, it has no biblical basis. But I apreciate the conversation.

@nickj5451

4 жыл бұрын

Here's a good intro: kzread.info/dash/bejne/nYmYu8eSqZa0gaQ.html

@nickj5451

4 жыл бұрын

@Boscos_box Would you imagine that?

@monicatorres4965

4 жыл бұрын

@Boscos_box I was being honest there is no need to get offensive. You should rethink how you share your religion with others... when I say there is no biblical basis is because I have read the bible and you have to really strech the words to fit Mariology in it. The entire Bible God uses for us to know him and he is very clear time and time again about who he is, about trinity about Jesus... why would it be different with Mary?

@monicatorres4965

4 жыл бұрын

@@nickj5451 Thanks for the video, Jesus called women to many other women it is just a way of reffering to women. When he says to John here is your mother he is reffering to him not to the entire humanity. The Bible is clear about who is God and that Jesus came for the entire world, with Mary you are taking a single conversation and making a conclusion that is really not there. Grace and life come through Jesus not Mary, that is also clear in the Bible. If your are interested in the reply to all the things from the video your send me here is a link kzread.info/dash/bejne/Z6RrpquKnrW_f5s.html I am open to review my beliefs to find the truth. I love Catholics and think this conversations are important.

@nickj5451

4 жыл бұрын

​@@monicatorres4965 And thank you for your link and your concerns about this. I watched it from the time you marked. Sorry I'm not more concise, but you raised a number of good questions and it's been a while since I've done something like this so I have a bit too much fun with it haha. Do you hold to Sola Scripture, to some extent or another? I get the impression that is an area of our disagreement. I actually agree there are some mistakes in the video I linked, and some points are poorly said; overall I think they did a great job as an introduction. You mentioned a few issues, but of course there are lots more details to the video I linked than you responded to, so I'm wondering, did you found those particular points to invalidate the whole argument the video made? (This channel gives more detail, if that video was too vague. Best to start with the last one. They also probably have some minor problems. kzread.info/head/PL57492B-_-sqX8d47d1-eL_XBOs14RgsC) 1. On Mary being called "woman". That's kind of true what you say. I think it's a very minor detail, again, so even if it's irrelevant, it doesn't change the substance of the argument, which included several points of parallel between Eve and Mary. (That said, I think it is significant that Jesus calls Mary "woman," since she's His Mother, which would not be normal.) 2. About Mary as Mother of all Christians, for now I'll just say that part of the reason is that John the beloved disciple, as an ideal disciple, stands in for all disciples of Christ--that is to say, as an ideal disciple he shows that being Jesus' disciple also means having the same Mother. But before arguing for this, I'm wondering, do you have any thoughts on what that event is about, on why Jesus gave Mary to John, and why He did this while on the Cross? And are you familiar, by any chance, with the Passion narrative being an enthronement narrative? Now to the video you linked: 2. Bathsheba's intercession. "The Queen Mother was a big deal back in the day," he says. Okay, so we agree this is a significant and real OT motif. He's right that the Queen Mothers mentioned in Scripture are generally bad, and that Bathsheba's request is not granted even though Solomon said he would deny her nothing. I also agree that typology can easily be abused. Also, one can teach something true but explain it poorly. I am often frustrated when people use the typology of Bathsheba from 1 Kgs 2 without giving any further detail about why it does work despite the objection made in the video you linked. Typology does not actually require a good example foreshadowing a good example. This is evident in St. Paul's New Adam typology: "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. . . . The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit" (1 Cor 15:22,45). Christ is certainly not the New Adam because Adam foreshadowed Christ's trust and love of the Father; Christ fulfilled what Adam failed to do; Christ restored what Adam lost. . . . Similarly, Eve's sin does not detract from Mary as the New Eve--since it is the office we're concerned with, not the type's deeds. Eve's typology also part of the Queen Mother. Solomon is of course a type of Christ, as Son of David, who builds the House of the Lord. Solomon partially fulfills the prophecy of 2 Sm 7, while Christ fulfills it truly. Yet while Solomon begins well, he ends exceptionally bad and rends the kingdom. Christ restored and fulfilled what Solomon failed to do. Same with his mother. Most of the Davidic kings "did evil in the sight of the Lord," and yet Christ the King of course fulfills the Davidic kingship. We need not say that king Ahab was a type of Christ's works, but we understand that he stood in the role which Christ would come to fulfill. Jonah's "death and resurrection" type involved his unfaithfulness and repentance, and even then he preaches to the Gentiles despite himself and is envious; Christ's deeds are a perfection of the shadow of the type. The queen of heaven idols of various nations mentioned in Jeremiah may also be seen, then, as extreme perversions of what was the be in God's good order for creation and religion. With that established, it should be easier to see the Queen Mother typology. None of the bad Queen Mother's invalidate this office as one for Mary to fulfill, as Mother of the King of Kings--including the custom of not refusing her, which Solomon did not do but Christ fulfills. There are, however, apart from the office itself, at least a few positive examples: The good Queen Mother of Prov 31:1-9, where the Queen Mother advocates with the King for justice and compassion for the poor, even asking to give them wine. Esther also fits several Marian types, including Queen/Advocate role, who is not to be refused (Est 6:3,6; 7:2), but without being a mother, as she isn't Queen of Judah/Israel. 3. He mentions that the typology of Mary isn't clear and explicit. This is an understandable objection; it isn't explicit. However, I don't see how one can deny that the typology mentioned in the videos I've linked is there deliberately. I'm not sure what exactly he finds wrong about the Catholic and Orthodox use of Genesis 3:15 and the parallels between Gen 1 and John 1-2--he mentions this briefly. I find those parallels are unmistakably deliberate. The parallels between Luke's account of Mary and Elizabeth and the Ark in 2 Sm 6 cannot be coincidences. I'm guessing you've come across these--what do you think of them? Further, this did not prevent the early Church from explaining Marian typology. St. Irenaeus gives probably the first explicit exegetical reading of Eve's typology of Mary extant (which of course doesn't mean he invented it--it's only the earliest we have in writing): www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103322.htm (paragraph 4). Later Church Fathers followed Irenaeus, deepening the Church's understanding of what was not as fully seen by past generations; the Church eventually gave these things official recognition, but did not invent them; it shouldn't be surprising that Scripture's extreme depths could not be fully understood by the whole Church within a single human lifetime. Scripture is full of mysteries that are not explained straightforwardly (Mt 13:9-16); it is complicated and subtle and, no doubt, often twisted by others (2 Pt 3:15-16) and so it isn't expected of each Christian to search out all Christian doctrine for himself, but we are given the Church to preserve it (1 Tim 3:15). I think, perhaps, the fewness of references to Mary is the best argument given against Mariology; but the above considerations and the main details given in the overviews of Marian typology make this, on its own, an unnecessary argument, as small quantity does not deny importance, nor did that prevent the early Church from seeing her importance. Mary's few appearances are extremely significance. A minor point maybe worth mentioning is that there are some extremely early extant Christian references to Mary's hiddenness as part of God's plan to trick satan, much as Christ was, for a time, hidden. 4. You said, "The entire Bible God uses for us to know him and he is very clear time and time again about who he is, about trinity about Jesus... why would it be different with Mary?" I don't think it is as different as you say it is--though I agree many Mariological truths are less immediately recognizable than Christ's Divinity and the Trinity, and this surely reflects the fact that those two are more essential than Mariology. In the history of Church Councils, however, Mariology has followed naturally as those dogmas (Jesus' and Holy Spirit's Divinity, Trinity, etc.) were defined and often was brought up for the purpose of supporting their integrity (for example, Mary as Mother of God was defined to solidify the fact that Christ is one Person, not two). The video you linked said the Trinity is clearly there in Scripture. It's there, but I wouldn't say it's very clearly laid out, at least not by reading it from our modern perspectives. I doubt I would have been lead to belief in the Trinity if not for Tradition pointing it out to me; but we're very used to this part of Tradition, so it seems obvious. Many people disbelieved in the Trinity from the first days of the Church, and still do today. I would say that those who reject the Trinity either have not been shown the evidence or reject the evidence shown them because of a prior bias; I find that to be the case with Mary as well. 5. "Grace and life come through Jesus not Mary, that is also clear in the Bible." The quote you refer to was unwisely placed in the video--not because I disagree with them, but because they should have known this would be misunderstood if they didn't give some background explanation. I'm already going on too long, so for now I'll just say that grace and life come principally through Jesus (Jn 1:16-17) since He is the //source// of grace and life; but Mary participates in this secondarily and in a unique way, the most evident reason being that she mediated Jesus to us by bearing Him in her womb as His Mother. Perhaps we take this fact too easily for granted that it doesn't seem significant. This may seem just like playing with words, but I'm certain this is what the author of the video meant by that, so I'm just clarifying what was meant. And now I awkwardly realize that I just left you an essay. But I think I at least touched on each point. Hope it helps clarify things at the very least and God bless!

Matt really struggling with his imagination. Stop trying to limit an all powerful God. It's a hypothetical sir.

Jesus Christ of Nazareth is ENOUGH and the only mediator between God and man. Why pray or consult with the dead,(Saint/Mary). God hates the practice of divination and idolatry.

@NicklasNylander87

3 жыл бұрын

If that is true, you are not allowed to ask brothers and sisters to pray for you, neither can you pray yourself, only Christ can pray for you. This is not true however. We are, as Fr. Pine said, a family of believers and we are to care for each other. And since Christ rose from the grave now the saints also live with him, and are in him, serving him in. Therefore we can pray to saints or Mary and they can intercede for us.

@bazzy8376

2 жыл бұрын

Jesus of Nazareth chose 12 helpers. he would have disagreed about the "enough." In fact he chose them to build an entire kingdom to defeat evil. He was all about community -body of Christ. He also promised us eternal life. He wasn't talking to you? Christians are resurrected after death. There are no dead Christians in heaven.

Papists do worship Mary. No question about it: "My Queen and my Mother, *I give myself entirely to you;* and to show my devotion to you, I consecrate to you this day my eyes, my ears, my mouth, my heart, *my whole being without reserve.* Wherefore, good Mother, as *I am your own, keep me, guard me, as your property and possession.* Amen."

@apubakeralpuffdaddy392

Жыл бұрын

I guess y'all just worship Jesus, just like Jim & Tammy Faye Bakker & Jimmy Swaggart & Ted Haggard & Jerry Falwell Jr & Peter Popoff & Warren Jeffs & Kenneth Copeland & Oral Roberts.

@Mygoalwogel

Жыл бұрын

@@apubakeralpuffdaddy392 I don't know who any of those people are except Kenneth Copeland. The only reason I know who he is is because the LutheranSatire channel has a hilarious video making fun of him.

@apubakeralpuffdaddy392

Жыл бұрын

@@Mygoalwogel Well, there's this thang called the 'internet' in which you can type in the names of those Evangelical Preachers and read about how their sinful, corrupt lives brought suffering & shame upon the Lord & His Church. And then remember the Words of your Lord: "Should a man cause these little ones to lose their faith in Me, it is better for that man to have a millstone tied around his neck & be cast into the sea". Luke 17:2.

@Mygoalwogel

Жыл бұрын

@@apubakeralpuffdaddy392 I have no interest in reading about evangelical preachers. Do you have a point you hope to make

@apubakeralpuffdaddy392

Жыл бұрын

@@Mygoalwogel Yes, that your Bible Based Religion is false, as evidenced by the corrupt & criminal Evangelical Preachers you refuse to even acknowledge.

Satan: "Did God actually say, 'Do not worship idols.'?" Also Satan: "Let's don't call it 'worship,' let's call it 'veneration.'" Dictionary: Latin venerātus, past participle of venerārī to solicit the goodwill of (a god), worship, revere, verbal derivative of vener-, stem of venus, presumably in its original sense “desire” from the ancient proto-Italian word "wenezāōr" meaning "to worship" Catholics, the people who were alive at the time of the birth of this teaching in the 4th century knew exactly the meaning of the word "venerate." It comes from their own veneration of their Greek gods. In fact, the words itself is tied to the Greek god, Venus. Do you not understand that the ancient Romans venerated lesser gods to reach to the higher god/s? This teaching is idolatry, heresy, and blasphemy brought into the churches of the 4th century as a way to assimilate Greek gods with Christianity and bring in more people into the Romanized, politicized church. 1 Timothy 2: "For there is one God, and one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." Hebrews 7:25: "Consequently, he [Jesus] is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them." You don't get any clearer than that, people.

Praying to Mary & the Saints is unbiblical! There's a difference between asking family or friends to pray For you, to praying To dead people! Jesus is both Mediator & Intercessor. If Jesus is sufficient for both those roles then why do we need to pray to Mary or one of the saints, who by the way, are dead and departed? Yes, they are alive in heaven, however, there is no scriptural basis for praying to them, rather the opposite is true! Intercession is biblical for you and I who are living, to pray FOR one another, but not to pray to departed people. The saints in heaven may be privy to the prayers of the saints on earth. However, nowhere in scripture are we instructed to pray To Them! The Bible actually instructs us to call on God not the Dead! Isaiah 8:19-20 Someone may say to you, “Let’s ask the mediums and those who consult the spirits of the Dead. With their whisperings and mutterings, they will tell us what to do.” But shouldn’t people ask God for guidance? Should the living seek guidance from the Dead? Look to God’s instructions and teachings! People who contradict his word are completely in the dark. By praying To them, we are taking the attributes of God and placing them on mere humans! Only God is Omnipresent(everywhere at once), Omniscient(knowing everything at all times), Omnipotent(all powerful) & Omnibenevolent(supremely Holy & Good). If the word of God tells us to come to Him directly, then why do we need to pray to anyone else??? Take a look at the following scriptural references: Romans 8:34 [34]Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes INTERCESSION for us. Hebrews 4:14-16 [14]Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. [15]For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. [16]Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. Hebrews 7:23-27 [23]Also there were many priests, because they were prevented by death from continuing. [24]But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. [25]Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make Intercession for them. [26]For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; [27]who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people’s, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. 1 Timothy 2:5 [5]For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, Acts 4:12 [12]Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” Jeremiah 29:12-13 Then you will call on me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. Jeremiah 33:3 Call to me and I will answer you and tell you great and unsearchable things you do not know. Philippians 4:6-7 [6]Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; [7]and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. Romans 8:26-27 [26]Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. [27]Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God. Matthew 6:6,9-15 [6]But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. [9]In this manner, therefore, pray: Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. [10]Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven. [11]Give us this day our daily bread. [12]And forgive us our debts, As we forgive our debtors. [13]And do not lead us into temptation, But deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen. [14]“For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. [15]But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. 1 John 5:14-15 [14]Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. [15]And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him. 2 Chronicles 7:14 [14]if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land. Psalms 17:6 [6]I have called upon You, for You will hear me, O God; Incline Your ear to me, and hear my speech. Psalms 102:17 [17]He shall regard the prayer of the destitute, And shall not despise their prayer. Psalms 145:18-19 [18]The Lord is near to all who call upon Him, To all who call upon Him in truth. [19]He will fulfill the desire of those who fear Him; He also will hear their cry and save them. Proverbs 15:29 [29]The Lord is far from the wicked, But He hears the prayer of the righteous. Romans 10:13 [13]For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Romans 10:9-13 [9]If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. [10]For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. [11]As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” [12]For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile-the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, [13]for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

>>>ANOTHER example of of romsit PAGANS worshipping their goddess of salvation

🙏🙇‍♂🙏Holy Mother Mary is a mediator she is a part of my beliefs I adore her, and worship her a mother of our holy God, a chosen woman and she wants everybody to be saved into this world,,, she needs us people to be closer to his Divine son,,, our brother,. she intercedes and guides us and then direct us believers to Jesus Christ her divine son,,, and this is aswell the will and way of Christ Jesus to honor his holy earthly mother to never forget her as a channel for us earthlings aswell to cling, come and go to her asking for an assistance through prayer and our holy mother Mary aswell now ask his sacred divine son for it to attend to us like a family thing and so to contrast this like a one Holy trinity and a one God almighty, which Jesus the holy son, God the father, and the holy ghost is one it is an unreachable sacred things created which is aswell an unreachable to comprehend by our earthly minds, 🙏🙇‍♂🙏.

@brando3342

4 жыл бұрын

@fun-with-nickline You worship Mary?

@faithbreathes9598

4 жыл бұрын

fun-with-nickline I’m not sure if English is your first language (really trying not to be offensive if it is), but we as Catholics do not worship Mary. We only honour her the same way we would honour any other Christian that has glorified God throughout their lives. The use of the word ‘worship’ is not correct as that is reserved for God alone. Lots of love ❤️

@bradyhayes7911

Жыл бұрын

​@@faithbreathes9598Fr. Pine literally said Catholics worship Mary and the saints via veneration in the video - did you watch it?

God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in the Spirit and truth ~ not human reasoning and what seems good in the eyes of men. You people fell into a pit through human reasoning and you are using human reasoning to get out. You cannot.

Well, if you think Maryis the Queen of heaven, then you obviously worship her. Show me the scripture in any Bible even yours, the one that has the seven extra books that no one knows about, where she is the mother, the queen the all-knowing of heaven. That we need to pray to, so she can take our prayers to Jesus so that Jesus can take our prayers to God. Because I'm pretty sure that the Bible I read says if I pray to God, Jesus is right there to take them straight to him. I don't need an earthly father/priest nor do I need a dead woman to do that. But please tell me how you convinced so many people that what you say is true that way I can sell vacuum cleaners....

The Bible is absolutely clear that we are to worship God alone. The only instances of anyone other than God receiving worship in the Bible are false gods, which are Satan and his demons. All followers of the Lord God refuse worship. Peter and the apostles refused to be worshiped (Acts 10:25-26; 14:13-14). The holy angels refuse to be worshiped (Revelation 19:10; 22:9). The response is always the same, “Worship God!” Roman Catholics attempt to “bypass” these clear Scriptural principles by claiming they do not “worship” Mary or saints, but rather that they only “venerate” Mary and the saints. Using a different word does not change the essence of what is being done. A definition of “venerate” is “to regard with respect or reverence.” Nowhere in the Bible are we told to revere anyone but God alone. There is nothing wrong with respecting those faithful Christians who have gone before us (see Hebrews chapter 11). There is nothing wrong with honoring Mary as the earthly mother of Jesus. The Bible describes Mary as “highly favored” by God (Luke 1:28). At the same time, there is no instruction in the Bible to revere those who have gone to heaven. We are to follow their example, yes, but worship, revere, or venerate, no!

@bazzy8376

2 жыл бұрын

Where in the bible does it say not to revere or venerate anyone? People bowed to each other all the time. But that's moot. Worship is something entirely different. Everybody knows how Catholics worship. Tell us how you worship. Do you offer something? How? Where? What?

Individualism BTFO

Well, I just saw a mass at Fatima in honour of who you Cats call Mary. And if that's not worship, I'm not a True Saint! Paganism is bad! Mmkay!

@noahgaming8833

11 ай бұрын

The word “worship” has undergone a change in meaning in English. It comes from the Old English weorthscipe, which means the condition of being worthy of honor, respect, or dignity. To worship in the older, larger sense is to ascribe honor, worth, or excellence to someone, whether a sage, a magistrate, or God. For many centuries, the term worship simply meant showing respect or honor, and an example of this usage survives in contemporary English. British subjects refer to their magistrates as “Your Worship,” although Americans would say “Your Honor.” This doesn’t mean that British subjects worship their magistrates as gods; it means they are giving them the honor appropriate to their office, not the honor appropriate to God. Outside of this example, however, the English term “worship” has been narrowed in scope to indicate only that supreme form of honor, reverence, and respect that is due to God. This can lead to confusion, when people who are familiar only with the use of words in their own day and their own circles encounter material written in other times and other places. In Scripture, the term “worship” was similarly broad in meaning, but in the early Christian centuries, theologians began to differentiate between different types of honor in order to make more clear which is due to God and which is not. As the terminology of Christian theology developed, the Greek term latria came to be used to refer to the honor that is due to God alone, and the term dulia came to refer to the honor that is due to human beings, especially the saints. Scripture indicates that honor is due to these individuals (Matt. 10:41b). A special term was coined to refer to the special honor given to the Virgin Mary, who bore Jesus-God in the flesh-in her womb. This term, hyperdulia (huper [more than]+ dulia = “beyond dulia”), indicates that the honor due to her as Christ’s own Mother is more than the dulia given to other saints. It is greater in degree, but since Mary is a finite creature, the honor she is due is fundamentally different from the latria owed to the infinite Creator. Another attempt to make clear the difference between the honor due to God and that due to humans has been to use the words adore and adoration to describe the total, consuming reverence due to God and the terms venerate, veneration, and honor to refer to the respect due humans. Thus, Catholics sometimes say, “We adore God but we honor his saints.” Unfortunately, many non-Catholics appear unable or unwilling to recognize these distinctions. They confidently assert that Catholics “worship” Mary and the saints, and, in so doing, commit idolatry. This is patently false, but the education in anti-Catholic prejudice is so strong that one must patiently explain that Catholics do not worship anyone but God-at least given the contemporary use of the term. The Church is very strict about the fact that latria, adoration-what contemporary English speakers call “worship”-is to be given only to God. Many non-Catholics may even go further. Wanting to attack the veneration of the saints, they may declare that only God should be honored. This is in direct contradiction to the language and precepts of the Bible. The term “worship” was used in the same way in the Bible that it used to be used in English. It could cover both the adoration given to God alone and the honor that is to be shown to certain human beings. In Hebrew, the term for worship is shakhah. It is appropriately used for humans in a large number of passages. For example, in Genesis 37:7-9 Joseph relates two dreams that God gave him concerning how his family would honor him in coming years. Translated literally the passage states: “‘[B]ehold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and lo, my sheaf arose and stood upright; and behold, your sheaves gathered round it, and worshiped [shakhah] my sheaf.’ . . . Then he dreamed another dream, and told it to his brothers, and said, ‘Behold, I have dreamed another dream; and behold, the sun, the moon, and eleven stars were worshiping [shakhah] me.’” In Genesis 49:2-27, Jacob pronounced a prophetic blessing on his sons, and concerning Judah he stated: “Judah, your brothers shall praise you; your hand shall be on the neck of your enemies; your father’s sons shall worship [shakhah] you (49:8).” And in Exodus 18:7, Moses honored his father-in-law, Jethro: “Moses went out to meet his father-in-law, and worshiped [shakhah] him and kissed him; and they asked each other of their welfare, and went into the tent.” Yet none of these passages were discussing the worship of adoration, the kind of worship given to God. Honoring Saints Consider how honor is given. We regularly give it to public officials. In the United States it is customary to address a judge as “Your Honor.” In the marriage ceremony it used to be said that the wife would “love, honor, and obey” her husband. And just about anyone, living or dead, who bears an exalted rank is said to be worthy of honor, and this is particularly true of historical figures. These practices are entirely Biblical. We are explicitly commanded at numerous points in the Bible to honor certain people. One of the most important commands on this subject is the command to honor one’s parents: “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land which the Lord your God gives you” (Ex. 20:12). God considered this command so important that he repeated it multiple times in the Bible (for example, Lev. 19:3, Deut. 5:16, Matt. 15:4, Luke 18:20, and Eph. 6:2-3). It was also important to give honor to one’s elders in general: “You shall rise up before the hoary head, and honor the face of an old man, and you shall fear your God: I am the Lord” (Lev. 19:32). It was also important to specially honor religious leaders: “Make sacred garments for your brother Aaron [the high priest], to give him dignity and honor” (Ex. 28:2). The New Testament stresses the importance of honoring others no less than the Old Testament. The apostle Paul commanded: “Pay all of them their dues, taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due” (Rom. 13:7). He also stated this as a principle regarding one’s employers: “Slaves, be obedient to those who are your earthly masters, with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as to Christ” (Eph. 6:5). “Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be defamed” (1 Tim. 6:1). Perhaps the broadest command to honor others is found in 1 Peter: “Honor all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor” (1 Pet. 2:17). The New Testament also stresses the importance of honoring religious figures. Paul spoke of the need to give them special honor in 1 Timothy: “Let the presbyters [priests] who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching” (1 Tim. 5:17). Christ himself promised special blessings to those who honor religious figures: “He who receives a prophet because he is a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward, and he who receives a righteous man [saint] because he is a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward” (Matt. 10:41). So, if there can be nothing wrong with honoring the living, who still have an opportunity to ruin their lives through sin, there certainly can be no argument against giving honor to saints whose lives are done and who ended them in sanctity. If people should be honored in general, God’s special friends certainly should be honored. Statue Worship? People who do not know better sometimes say that Catholics worship statues. Not only is this untrue, it is even untrue that Catholics honor statues.

@noahgaming8833

11 ай бұрын

The fact that someone kneels before a statue to pray does not mean that he is praying to the statue, just as the fact that someone kneels with a Bible in his hands to pray does not mean that he is worshiping the Bible. Statues or paintings or other artistic devices are used to recall to the mind the person or thing depicted. Just as it is easier to remember one’s mother by looking at her photograph, so it is easier to recall the lives of the saints by looking at representations of them. The use of statues and icons for liturgical purposes (as opposed to idols) also had a place in the Old Testament. In Exodus 25:18-20, God commanded: “And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece with the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be.” When the time came to build the Temple in Jerusalem, God inspired David’s plans for it, which included “his plan for the golden chariot of the cherubim that spread their wings and covered the ark of the covenant of the Lord. All this he made clear by the writing from the hand of the Lord concerning it, all the work to be done according to the plan” (1 Chr. 28:18-19). In obedience to this divinely inspired plan, Solomon built two gigantic, golden statues of cherubim. (See the Catholic Answers tract, Do Catholics Worship Statues? for further information.) Imitation is the Biblical Form of Honor The most important form of honoring the saints, to which all the other forms are related, is the imitation of them in their relationship with God. Paul wrote extensively about the importance of spiritual imitation. He stated: “I urge you, then, be imitators of me. Therefore I sent to you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ, as I teach them everywhere in every church” (1 Cor. 4:16-17). The author of the book of Hebrews also stresses the importance of imitating true spiritual leaders: “Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you the word of God; consider the outcome of their life, and imitate their faith” (Heb. 13:7). One of the most important passages on imitation is found in Hebrews. Chapter 11 of that book, the Bible’s well-known “hall of fame” chapter, presents numerous examples of the Old Testament saints for our imitation. It concludes with the famous exhortation: “Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us” (12:1)-the race that the saints have run before us.

The only intercessor / mediator is Jesus, Jesus leads to the father….period! Everyone else is dead and in heaven and can’t hear your prayers, only Jesus can!!!

@noahgaming8833

Жыл бұрын

Christ is our one mediator/intercessor, yet, St. Paul commands all Christians to be intercessors/mediators. Then notice the first word in verse five: “For there is one God and one mediator…” And then in verse seven he says, “For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle.” What is an apostle if not a mediator? The very definition of apostle, according to Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, is “a delegate, messenger, one sent forth with orders.” That’s an essential part of what a mediator is. In short, St. Paul says we are all called to be mediators because Christ is the one mediator and for this reason he was called to be a mediator of God’s love and grace to the world! Is this a contradiction? Not at all! The fact that Jesus is our one mediator does not preclude him from communicating this power by way of participation. The Bible also declares: “But you are not to be called Rabbi, for you have one teacher, (Gr. - didaskolos) and you are all brethren.” This text cannot be any clearer, yet James 3:1 and Ephesians 4:11 tell us we have many teachers (Gr. - didaskoloi) in the Church. The key is to understand that the many teachers and mediators in the body of Christ do not take away from Christ as the one teacher and mediator because they are, in a sense, Christ on this earth and they serve to establish his offices of teacher and mediator in him. As members of the body of Christ graced with a specific task by Christ they can say with St. Paul in Galatians 2:20, “It is not I, but Christ who [teaches] in me…” And remember, we are not talking about necessity here. The Church is not claiming Christ couldn’t get the job done so he needed help. Of course not! He could do it all-and all by himself-if he wanted to. He could come down here right now and write this blog post much more effectively than I ever could. But he chooses not to do everything himself, strictly speaking. He delights in using his body to communicate his life and love to the world.

@MrCarlosVillasenor

Жыл бұрын

@@noahgaming8833 🤦🏽‍♂️

@noahgaming8833

Жыл бұрын

@@MrCarlosVillasenor Scripture indicates, those in heaven are aware of the prayers of those on earth. This can be seen, for example, in Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of “golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.” But if the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. Some might try to argue that in this passage the prayers being offered were not addressed to the saints in heaven, but directly to God. Yet this argument would only strengthen the fact that those in heaven can hear our prayers, for then the saints would be aware of our prayers even when they are not directed to them.

@noahgaming8833

Жыл бұрын

@@MrCarlosVillasenor again, say something, or just don’t, because just using the facepalm emoji just looks like you don’t actually have anything to say.

@MrCarlosVillasenor

Жыл бұрын

@@noahgaming8833 it’s a waste of my time, god bless you!

YES THEY WORSHIP THEIR GODDESS!!!!! "The Divine Mother is the only hope of those who are in despair; she is our safeguard from Hell. Through the intercession of Mary many souls are in Paradise who would not be there had she not interceded for them, for God has entrusted her with the keys and treasures of the heavenly kingdom." St. Thomas Aquinas (official teacher of the cult) This pagan heretic said that she saves those who should not have been saved. That those that appease her can be saved even if God's judgement would have been hell!!!!

@apubakeralpuffdaddy392

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Please give me the citation.

@onemarktwoyou

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@@apubakeralpuffdaddy392 Bryan you sicko, that was a citation.

@apubakeralpuffdaddy392

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@@onemarktwoyou No, it was not. What is the source of that quote, please? Is it from a Jack Chick pamphlet?

@onemarktwoyou

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@@apubakeralpuffdaddy392 LIAR!!!! You are good at lying. That is why you are LYING Bryan. "O Lady, since thou art the dispenser of all graces, and since the grace of salvation can come only through thy hands, our salvation depends on thee." St. Bernardine of Siena

Calling her the holy mother and blessed mother that gave birth our Lord and asking her to intercede…..nowhere is this in the Bible. Completely made up by Catholicism. You can beat around it all you want….but it is Mary worship. She can not hear our prayers or intercessions nor any saints. Only God can hear our prayers. Jesus. Our savior is the way. Not Mary or any other Saint.

>>>ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF PAGAN WORSHIP OF THEIR ONLY EXCLUSIVE SAVIOR, A FALSE MARY GODDESS

The Bible says God formed us in the womb, and knew us before the foundations of the earth. Jesus was there in the beginning, and all things were created by Him. Mary is not Creator. She is not Lord. She is not Saviour. She was not before God, nor is she God. God is Creator. A mother does nothing on her own to create life, all life is created by God and comes from Him. You say you do not worship Mary, but that is a lie. When you bow down to statues, touch and kiss their feet, you are worshiping a graven image and committing the most grievous of sins, idolatry. And when the man you call holy father does this in New York for all the world to see, it is disgusting. Jesus said, “call no man on earth “father”, you have one Father, your Father in Heaven. The Bible also says, there is none good, not one. The “pope”, a sinful man, is not good, and NOT HOLY!!! And yet you call him “Holy Father”, a term used only once in the Bible when Jesus referred to His Father in Heaven as Holy Father. Your “religion” is wicked and evil, your leadership is corrupt and deceptive, you are in complete derision with the Word of God, and you have cast blindness on millions of God’s Children. I pray that God’s people would open their eyes and see the lies and deception and seek the Lord for themselves through God’s Holy Word the King James Bible. Get out of the Catholic Church, it is a demonic cult. kzread.info/dash/bejne/h3yerpiecs6_fLA.html

@noahgaming8833

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Where does the Bible say to read the King James Bible?

worship wûr′shĭp noun The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object. The ceremonies, prayers, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed. Ardent admiration or love; adoration.