I know a bit about candles. The PLA that didn't burn probably just needs a wick. My guess as to why the wood one burned so well was not so much because of the wood itself but because the wood was able to wick the plastic.

@XerotoLabs

7 жыл бұрын

was just thinking the same .

@gbegerow

7 жыл бұрын

Good point about the wick. The wood filament has a much rougher surface. Every grain of wood which breaks out of the polymer might work as a micro wick.

@gbegerow

7 жыл бұрын

Seems i misclicked. Wanted to answer Tory Evans

@lukasskymuh5910

7 жыл бұрын

Very good point. The question is: Will the normal PLA start burning as soon there are enogh burned ash particles on top?

@rich1051414

7 жыл бұрын

Theoretically it could burn. It is made of starch, a carbohydrate. I would like to see someone drop PLA in sulphuric acid :D

Manufacturers should start stamping the materials flashpoint.

@superslimanoniem4712

3 жыл бұрын

should be a requirement as far as I'm concerned

@pothandlepeddlar

3 жыл бұрын

I can't believe it's not a requirement allready :/

Thanks, Angus! I mainly print in PETG precisely because research led me to believe it was the least flammable (for high-power electronics cases, basically same idea as your ESCs) and it's nice to see that confirmed.

Wow.. very interesting results. Please continue this series I am very curious to see more filaments tested like this. If possible maybe more PLA brands as well, it should expose who has flammable additives and such.

big +1 for actually showing us your safety precautions!

Great video with some surprising results.

The wood print had a viking funeral feel to it. If PLA is based on starches, it might be that you weren't burning it as much as you were caramelising it.

@retosius7962

6 жыл бұрын

if he had help the flame to it longer it would have likely burned since he didn't hold it that long onto it. if he gave it the same amount of time as the wood one it would have burned for a sec before the melting plastic extinguished it

@Drachenhebron

5 жыл бұрын

@@retosius7962 yup, i know it burns, i literally burn it out of my clogged nozzles but it has to be heated past just caramelising to self sustain

Another great video Angus, keep it up!

Good old KZread put this video in my 2019 personal steam. It was personally cool I had already “liked” this video. Keep up the top shelf work. 🍀🍀🍀🤜🏼🤛🏼🇦🇺😎

Great tests and good to know all in one video!

Thank you, you are an amazing teacher!

Thanks for the Demonstration Angus , that's good to know

Thank you very much for doing these tests, visual reference to correlate to material data sheets is nice.

Great video.. Glad too see important 3d printing topic like this being covered. Do you remember how the dripping plastic of an army man would make a wicked sound? What's the bet the globular shape falling has more then a little bit to do with you oddly rotating shapes investigation. Key take away is print in something that doesn't give off black smoke or burn when you hold a candle too it.👊🏻🍀😎

Great video and demonstration, thanks!

#AngusIsSidFromToyStory 3:15

@UnlikelyCreators

7 жыл бұрын

Instead of having plain old benches you should be burning printed out toy soldiers in future ep.

@AndersJackson

6 жыл бұрын

Benches are toys...

I also want to add I've been looking at using 3d printing for making moulds for metal casting by way of "lost pla". It looks like the hobbyking pla may be a good product for this. So thanks again!

Yes a simple jig that holds the tourch in the same place and distance from the item being burned and a stop watch so the flame is ON for the same amought of time. Also I wind break so all tests are wind free. Great volg and idea, thanks for posting .

That intro... Is soo awesome!

I really thought PETG would hold a flame much better, hmmm interesting. *looks at blow torch and failed rigid ink PETG prints*

@boomerangfreak

7 жыл бұрын

ok results are in: Rigid ink PETG: Doesn't seem to like holding a flame but burns quite violently exposed to a open flame. Heat could carefully be used to bond layer lines (similar to abs acetone smoothing) but gives slight dimensional deviation. Seems to be a bit more brittle? Can give a very nice shiny glazed look. Rigid ink PLA: Seems to hold a flame very well. Unable to see the flame in daylight! Colido PLA: Seems to hold a flame pretty well. Unable to see the flame in daylight! After it cooled down enough to comfortably touch the PLA was still very moldable for a while (a bit clay like) Plastic bottle for control: Since bottles are made from PET I decided to burn this as well. Doesn't hold a flame and doesn't burn as violently as aforementioned PETG. Keep in mind all these tests were done outside at about 8c with wind on varying failed and decommissioned prints.

@atlasz911

3 жыл бұрын

PET bottle can burn beautifully. Forget your blow torch and use a lighter for a strip or pape sheet for the whole bottle. Once you light it up, hold it witht the flame downwards. It will be burningslowly with moderate amount of black smoke. Small burning liquid pieces will be dropping out of it. Be careful not to let them fall on your skin or on flamable surface.

Cool! Two suggestions: 1) Remember the old "can you set fire to a sugar cube?" party trick? The trick there is to "accidentally" drop the sugar cube in your ashtray when first trying to light it up., The ash sticking to the molten sugar will act as a kind of "wick" and make it burn with a small flame on the second attempt. I doubt that the small amount of wood in the woodfill plastic actually is what's burning but it may well be the wick that's enabling the fire. 2) Lithium battery!!! I'm sure you have seen the youtube clips where guys jam nails or sharp tools through lithium batteries. So what if the battery is enclosed in a 3d-printed case. Will that just provide more fuel for the lithium fire?! Pretty relevant question if you're building battle robots...

@MakersMuse

7 жыл бұрын

Haha, yes - my LiPo cases are often 3D Printed... from ABS! Now I will have to seriously consider an alternative.

Interesting test, thanks for doing it.

that was one crazy test!

RIP Army Soldiers! :(

I guess you just answered my burning question ;)

RIP Benchy. PET FTW love that stuff.

That vent on the left of you looks like it's badly printed with stringing all over the place... XD

@Omlet221

3 жыл бұрын

*poorly 😎

Surprising results. I'd love to see more, especially filaments that are specifically designed to be inflammable. One question - is the filament any more or less flammable prior to extrusion? I am wondering about the storage of my filament and I have more than a few reels of filament now.

Great Video yet again. :D I'm loving these stress tests. I was going to suggest Acetone Smoothed ABS but no doubt you've had loads of requests for that. I would like to see you test how things burn over time, If you printed 6 benchy's in the same filament and burn one a month to see if the plastic degrades enough over the 6 months to change the results. :D

You are having way too much fun :o)

The PLA did hold a flame just fine, the wind blew it out. Take a look, you can see the plastic boiling well after the flame was removed, then a clear puff of smoke as it went out.

looking forward to the autoignition tests !!!!!!

What a cool idea!! You are so crazy. :-) So it would be interesting to hear and see which filament you will choose for you future racing robots. As you need a material that has an good fracture toughness, which PLA doesn't really deliver.

Wouwh... First I thought... oh no.. not another pyromania experiment.. there are so many on YT now... But this is quiet interesting! Thank you for this demonstration, I learned :-)

beats looking up the msds safety sheet lol good video thanks

well done.

Very neat !! For calibration purposes, at some point, you might do a simple block of wood with the same torch and the same air movement.

@elvinhaak

5 жыл бұрын

a match?

Double like for all the safety gear used for seemingly trivial test!

That grid behind you, has stringing!

you should make really cool outdoor-burning candle that has a lattice or voroni type style. Just an experiment

Very interesting results. As a suggestion I would like to see metal particle filament. Both 30% like the majority on AliExpress and 80% like good metal particle filament.

I realise that this is over a year old now but wondered if you would do an update on the flammable qualities of the latest filaments. It'd be best to do it in a fume cupboard of some sort to remove the influence of wind, whilst making it safer (the fumes, as you know, can be evil). There's been a flood of new filaments recently & I do have concerns about the purity etc that might be revealed by testing against other, more known, quantities.

Nice test. PETG seems the way to go. One warning ⚠️ don’t make your welding clamps out of plastic.😋

I'd like to see more consistancy and repeatability by somehow making the flame last the same amount of time on each plastic piece, a mechanical switch of some type so you give them time to self sustain and possibly maintain the burn. Otherwise fun to watch :-D

@MakersMuse

7 жыл бұрын

Definitely, the range of requested materials was so large that I need to put a proper chamber together that protects from wind and that way I can regulate things better. For this, I just set out 'trying' to set them alight. I didn't film it, but I subsequently took the torch to a smaller hobbyking PLA print till it was just a bubbling puddle and it still refused to hold a flame which was interesting.

@LukePettit3dArtist

7 жыл бұрын

I just want to watch the world burn..........or a lot of filament lol Your results in this video will probably be reflected in more controlled conditions but it would be nice to see the same settings for everything. That way we have a way to compare them all. Thouroughly enjoyable ;-D

destruction, I like it. you get a sub.

The translucent blue PLA that came with my FlashForge printer sustains a flame and burns pretty nicely. It probably depends on the actual type of PLA (because apparently it comes in many forms) and what additives it has. Setting fire to ABS is indeed to be avoided at all costs, which I already figured out as a kid when roasting a broken piece of LEGO. It also tends to produce these little floating plumes of soot that turn into black smears when trying to wipe them off whatever they landed on…

There is a fire resistance test set out in AS3100, General Requirments of Electrical Equipment.

Good to know thanks!

I would love to see how resistant to gradual increase in heat are the materials. As in, when "exactly" the deformations start and at what exact heat do they start burning, if they do start burning. That would be very useful to know for many more serious applications of 3d printing.

Very good info. I finally have a printer and it is printing non stop I wasn't expecting that it can print that precise I am really surprise and to say that I have the one on the cheap side it is a Anet A8 plastic frame that want to shake the house out of it's foundation at 50mm/sec but at 30mm/sec it is purring like a cat and fun to watch So now I am hook !

once I used plain white generic PLA for a candle wick for fun and it worked pretty well

nice vapour smoothing technique ;)

The Benchy has found its purpose 😅 and we learned that wood burns 😂. Seriously, thank you, I was thinking of doing this. Do you think it could also be brand specific? Love your channel, thank you.

I think you will see upon closer examination that the PLA did burn, albeit with a nearly invisible and smokeless and odorless flame. Great stuff for lost-plastic casting.

I'm glad PETG is flame retardant since I use it on almost everything I print. But I will test it myself too in case some brands did well than the other.

if you try nylon be sure to anchor it, years ago I would light the tip if nylon guitar picks and they'd shoot off like a rocket. I'd be interested to see if any additives in nylon filament change how it burns.

Interesting to watch.. you should get in touch with an industrial chemist and do this under more controlled conditions.... Also we should be able to get copies of manufacturers MSDS (Manufacturers Safety Data Sheet) which should show a classification eg IATA and melting/burning temps....FYI Our State Insurance Co (Owned by IAG and Aussie co btw) here in NZ told me they would not insure our house and contents if I had a 3D printer inside...Rgds Laurie

I’ve been able to get PlA to hold a flame while clearing out my nozzle with a torch, but it takes a lot of sustained heat, and it seems to burn best when it’s been thinned out.

For a future test, I'd like to see how sustaining the flames if the melted plastic is dropping off of the print instead of staying on it. Maybe an example is if the benchies were placed so that the chimney was facing out horizontally, rather than vertically. I imagine ABS won't see any changes, but maybe something from PLA/PETG? It seemed like the molten plastic fluid was putting out the flame.

Interesting results - thanks for testing. A bit of constructive feedback though: I really wish this had been done in a lower light situation. Maybe at dawn or dusk.

Sets pla with wood particles on fire and expects it not to burn. Logic level +9000

The hobbyking pla honestly looks like soda when it melts!

I know it's been a while but I wonder if you could redo the test under more controlled conditions. I think there is more we could learn from it. Also we have a few years of evolution in the field. Love your videos.

@MakersMuse

3 жыл бұрын

Great suggestion, definitely worth a revisit!

We know that PLA absorbs water in humid situations - so there could be a difference between FRESH PLA (little or no water) and OLD PLA (more water). If the melting of PLA releases water, then that could extinguish the flame...and your video definitely made it look like there was liquid boiling as the plastic melted. That could possibly explain the difference between the cheap PLA and the PHB-infused. The difference might not be the PHB - but just that your experiment didn't control for the age of the PLA.

What I've found with PETG is that thin pieces (I've tested around .8mm x .4mm) will actually burn so well it acts almost like a fuse.

10:44 - "What have you done now Gilligan!!!"

You should consider ordering a sample size of Ultem filament - it's used in airplanes because of it's safety when exposed to a flame (it doesn't ignite). Automobile manufacturers use it too in place of steel because it has the strength needed while being much lighter in weight. You just need to have a PT100 or similar equipped hotend as you will be needing to go up to 350-400C to print.

next time, try adding a wick. liquid diesel doesn't burn easily.... add a bunch of paper towels to the diesel and it goes up easily.. don't ask how I know... maybe print some Tealight pucks and add a candle wick?

I'm curious about filament that has metal or carbon fiber in it. In theory you would want the esc's to have help dissipating the heat that they generate, whereas the filaments that you tested will more than likely insulate the esc. Insulating the esc will only promote the heat concentration on them, thus fire. So, maybe change your thinking from things that don't burn well to things that help promote heat transfer.... if that is even a thing with filament haha Love the vids!

Very interesting! I see often people building enclosres out of flamable materials (wood, IKEA tables, plastic, paper). Testing some enclosure marial could be the next step! Here some non flamable or retarding sugestions: paster boards (normal(?) and fire proof), metal, Plexiglas(?), Glas.

Just a note on wax: While wax is burnable, it's the fumes that burn (you need serious heat to make wax having flames that burn all on itself). I suspect that it's similar with PLA. You'd need a wick or something to keep the flame going, melting the PLA around it. I guess that the wood particles in wood PLA acted as a wick, thus burning more consistently.

the flame out of the chimney XD

Seeing the melting on the PETG makes me wonder if I could improve prints by heating them while under a mild vacuum. If you got the balance between heat and pressure right you could remove the airbubbles that form from being heated and it would produce a fine glossy finish. Obviously heating parts is already a thing, but I hadn't considered the impact of reducing the air pressure previously.

I think that Maker's Muse should make a slow motion and rewind video of the plastics catching on fire and melting.

A semi-educated guess, but the plastic that burns like a candle, other than ABS, is Polypropylene. If you ever come across an old bic pen, they will burn down right to the metal roller and ironically can be lit with a simple bic lighter. The newer bioplastics don't have the petroleum base (where most plastic of old comes from) and have a corn syrup base, though you get them hot enough they'll burn just fine; thankfully not as readily to open flame. The PETG has that glycol additive which is the hydroscopic part that readily absorbs water from the air.

If you do this again under more controlled conditions as others have suggested, you should totally try Polycarbonate! eSUN markets their ePC filament as having 'low flammability' and being flame retardant. That wood-filled PLA was pretty spectacular. It really looked like the flame was ignoring the PLA for the most part and igniting the wood particles, just burning its way through the print...and the intervening PLA material was just being burned up as collateral damage. Heh, now I want to get light and dark wood-filled filaments, and dual-extrusion print some little logs... So I can set up a little fireplace for them. ;)

Polycaronate is UL 94V2 fire rated... There was a FD test on windows with Acrylic vs PC and the Acrylic was a firetrap, a flaming ball of goo, while the PC held shape and did not burn.

Good video with good Intel of ratio of burning. But go forward with a better control environment, like Mithbusters. A good control of variables so anyone can verify and agree with your experiment. Like I said is good data. Stay true to yourself.

Testing to AS3100 or the equivalent AU-EC standard and without going into a lot of details on what is considered a pass or a fail. If the material is self extinguishing after the test wire or test flame is removed it would be considered a pass. You can find a material would pass but the same material with a different pigment would fail. There are plastic reference volumes which will give you information as chemical breakdown, electrical and mechanical strength, temperature resistance etc . ,

I had some 3d solutech thermo color change filament and I happened to burn the tip of the filament, it is pla technically but does have other chemicals

Good job. Can you try ASA filament ?

You kept mentioning that the extruder on your Wanhao I3 doesn't like PLAs with particles. Would the Wanhao I3 V2.1 (the data sheet says its MK10 extruder) be alright for printing something like CopperFILL?

Love to see a test on Tualman Bridge Nylon

Your hair is amazing

If you give the PLA a wick like a candle it would just soak into it like wax would do but in all cases all 3D Filaments are highly flamable if there is a consistant heat source for about half a minute. Carbon Fibre and glass fibre filaments should be a bit more flame retardant then normal ones, also it would be interesting to see how nylon based filamets react too. You never did a episode 2 so here ya go :D

funny you just did this video, I was wondering this myself the other day. grabbed small piece of glow in the dark abs and it went up in flames and left small black sooty ashes that hung in the air and fell . it smelled bad. lit a piece of wood fill pla and it burned like a match stick and put off an aroma of burning wood.

I got into 3D printing, so that I could paint boxes for my electrics projects. Naturally, I don't want my projects to be flammable, so I was very surprised to find there was so little flame resistant filament. All I could find was abs, which suffered chronic shrinkage. I gave PETG a go, and hasn't looked back. So I wasn't surprised by the result. Filament manufactures, please provide filaments that are certified flame retardant, and you will sell a lot more to those into electronics.

@MakersMuse

7 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I have to say the PETG surprised me - cool that it self extinguishes and is nice and tough.

@Karavusk

7 жыл бұрын

Maker's Muse I am not that suprised about this. People often bend PETG tubing for PC watercooling and they use a heatgun to heat it. Never saw that tubing catching a flame.

@SianaGearz

7 жыл бұрын

Now you consider what flame retardants are. Generally, they are halogen compounds that just bind the halogen until heat is applied. When heat is applied (or unfortunately UV radiation too), the compound decomposes, releasing the halogen, which then binds aggressively to hydrogen, making hydrocarbons or loose hydrogen unavailable as fuel, as greatly increased energy would be needed to break up the halogen-hydrogen bond. But what if it releases inside the plastic? it'll just replace whatever hydrogen bonds are there, the result is brittle discoloured shit. Of course it's not only a problem during 3D printing, but also during moulding, but likely more so during 3D printing.

@mumblic

6 жыл бұрын

I also was searching for a good material for electronics. So if I understand you correctly "PETG" is the best option??

Breaker's Muse... the series!

i think acetone smoothed vs non smoothed ABS prints would also be a good comparison

Check out EPC it is a polycarbonate filament from Esun which claims to be fairly flame resistant.

Acording to Bob Zalosh's notes ABS auto decomposes at 285C, Nylon at >310, Poly Methyl Methacrylate (?) 282, Polypropoline at 315, and PVA at ...106? That's not right. I mean this is the dudes job, but that seems way low for PVA.

@MakersMuse

7 жыл бұрын

I had never heard of that before, but looks like a good resource. I agree those numbers don't sound entirely correct. Modifiers would certainly have an affect too - I think these days filaments are rarely 'just' one polymer eg Polymaker's PolyMax PC is definitely not pure polycarbonate, it prints too well!

@f_bomb_3000

7 жыл бұрын

Hey Angus, any tweaks or advice for making the Flexion Extruder perform well with Wood PLA? I'm going to install the Flexion on my Wombot printer soon and have 1.5kg of Wood PLA to finish. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Cheers!

@stevenrs11

6 жыл бұрын

A bit late to reply, but often times the rate of decomposition is very, very slow at the low end of the range. For example, polycarbonate decomposition products are detectable at 300C, but it's so slow it's not really an issue. It can be held at 320C for hours, only breaking down rapidly/off-gassing over 400C. In fact, most polycarbonate processing happens 300C+. As a side note, I have printed over 25kgs of PC-Max. Mostly for work, but I use it for personal stuff too. It's my go to instead of pretty much everything. Once you dial it in, it bridges better than PLA, you can print it blazing fast at 280C, and its totally indestructible. (btw PolyMax is polymaker's premium PLA, PC-Plus and PC-Max are the polycarbonates.

Angus- have you tested the eSun Flame Resistant Polycarbonate filament?

Can you try XT because I have heard that it is heat resistant. I would love to see what it looks like.

A 2mm strand of Creality Ender red PLA burns with a medium speed - very similar to the speed of a match, can't even say, faster or slower.

3:16 Geez its Sid from ToyStory...

Good stuff. Which of your printers catches fire first?

@MakersMuse

7 жыл бұрын

Probably all the ones with thermal runaway disabled...

Nice one Angus #twistedfirestarter

Do you have any ESUN PLA+ ? I wonder what additive they have in that to make it so strong, I'm guessing that will make it more flammable

@MakersMuse

7 жыл бұрын

I think I've got some samples, will try dig them up!

@smokeydops

7 жыл бұрын

Maker's Muse Also -- you can anneal PLA+ (done it myself), 30 minutes in a toaster oven at 225 F will do it. I highly doubt that will affect is flame retardant, but it does affect is temperature stability... Thanks for replying & reading

Angus- you should start a series of how make your own 3d priinter like TOM did it. OR a whole live stream on it

@MakersMuse

7 жыл бұрын

What kind of printer ? I have definitely considered it.

@huzaifaahmed6532

7 жыл бұрын

Maker's Muse Cartesian based printer will be good like prusa i3 and all problems which a person will face during the making of the 3d printer and after.

@MakersMuse

7 жыл бұрын

Don't much see the point of designing another i3 honestly :) I can't add much to what already exists and it would cost more than buying chinese kit.

@huzaifaahmed6532

7 жыл бұрын

Maker's Muse No I don't want you to make another i3 just to make a video what to consider when making a 3d printer by your own.

@MakersMuse

7 жыл бұрын

Ah fair enough, yeah Tom definitely has that covered well! I am planning on documenting a custom build though at some point.

I know that its 2018 and I'm watching this, but for those who use inland pla from micro center I find it to hold a flame very well btw.