I recently had brand of PLA that was new to warp severely. This was the first brand of PLA with which I had such severe warping. I've encountered minor warping with other brands when printing thicker parts, such as 1-2-3 blocks, on the same printer. With the PLA that was warping severely, I tried adding glue stick and increasing the bed and extruder temperatures which yielded a marginal reduction in warpage. The printer is in an enclosure and printed with flap fully open, fully close and partially closed with little improvement in warpage for the problematic filament. I also monitored the interior temperature and the temp peaked at about 78 F (~24 C).

I guess I'm glad, I subscribed to this channel. Really interesting good stuff - well presented.

@NeedItMakeIt

6 ай бұрын

Hey, thanks for taking the time, I really appreciate it! Lots more to come 2 videos/wk is the plan and more if I get good enough at it.

In the example the prints don't deform due to adhering to the bed. Does that mean the parts internally stressed? Also, I've read somewhere that warping can also be caused by sudden crystallization in thick sections that are too warm.

@NeedItMakeIt

8 ай бұрын

Yes, that's right, what I wanted to show in the video and what most people seem to not realize is that the parts are still warping even though they had perfect adhesion, it's true that its not a lot, but it is a problem in some cases, when you take two prints off and you put them together, the banana shapes meet against each other and don't fit tight. Not so great in some cases if you want a tight fit. There are definitely internal stresses involved. I'd liken it to wood, when you cut a piece of wood sometimes even though the original piece was straight, the pieces you end up with after cutting are not. The smaller parts with thinner cross-sections are more flexible and warp. Similar here with plastics, if the cross-sections are large enough, they can resist the stresses. Also the adhesion to the bed does this as well, but only to a certain point, it can still pull up on the buildplate quite a bit. A while back I printed a heavy-duty ASA piece and it completely lifted the buildplate away from the magnet. it was just terrible and of course the print was ruined as well... I don't have a full solution to this problem. I think printing slower seems to help, also printing PLA in the enclosure and keeping the temperature inside the chamber higher helps quite a bit as well, and if the prints are large or there are more than one, cooling shouldn't be a problem.

I don't have any issue with warping, but this video convinced me to actually built an enclosure, because you can alway open the door, but you can't close it if you don't have one.

@NeedItMakeIt

8 ай бұрын

You'll definitely see better and more consistent results with an enclosure. Up until about 6 months ago I was using a 1/4" thick MDF enclosure with a PLEXI door, and it worked just fine, it was a bit big so I ended up finally taking it apart. On occasion for my Enders I'd use a towel over the printer, it does help quite a bit as long as your print isn't too big. The spool position can be a problem for the towel idea too...

in many 3d printing knowledge articles regarding warpage there is typically a lot of coverage regarding coefficient of thermal expansion (CTE), some mention of print temp vs ambient temp, but little or no mention of Young's Modulus (E) or the stiffness of the material. the third is still critical to understanding warpage because it is the material's ability to resist warpage strain under it's own stress of contraction when cooled. if you compare ABS vs PLA for example, the former has something like +60-70% worse contraction due to higher CTE and higher temp deltas but also ANOTHER +50% worse stiffness. that is easily 80-90% more warpage right off the bat. one thing to note about PLA is that while it is the stiffness king compared to PETG/ABS, this is only true below the glass transition temperature (Tg), above which it drops by ~90%. for PLA that is a good thing for resistance to part warpage during printing, not because it is stiff but because the lower layers can shrink without actually stressing the part and once printing stops it suddenly regains its high stiffness, relatively locking the shape in place. IMO the best way to take advantage of PLA's special properties vs PETG/ABS with regards to warpage is to keep the bed and ambient near Tg, something that is not possible with the other two materials. in the video example where bed is 60 and ambient is 43, that is something worth experimenting with to try to lower bed temp and maybe let the chamber soak more before starting. because of the overall better CTE and higher stiffness, usually this is not needed--but it becomes a key consideration if you really want to get the best out of PLA where only warp is a concern (huge parts). when minmaxing, you cannot really do apples to apples conditions, since each material has its own sweet spot. i believe bed 60C is slightly pushing it for PLA. as for ABS, you can fight the low stiffness in two ways. one is by greatly increasing adhesion externally (glue stick, hair spray) and the other is a cop out and using an arguably different material instead: carbon fiber filled ABS--that directly increases stiffness and lowers CTE. while marketing often touts higher strength and toughness of CF-filled plastics, the real reason we like it is because of printability (reduced warpage compared to non-CF). in many ways PETG is actually IMO the best sweet spot material to print with considering most factors (cost, smell, stiffness, toughness, printability and reliability under stress in warm conditions) and i would recommend anyone to try it out if you have only been printing with PLA.

I have some large flat parts that I print and I have warping issues with PLA+ on the P1P but not on the P1S, which supports what you're saying. After watching this video, it makes me wonder if I should design the corners to be lighter weight with thinner walls. I'll have to try it out. I'm also curious to know how bed temperature impacts PLA warping on the P1P. Makes me want to give the Bambu Lab cool plate a try as well. Thanks for the good work.

@NeedItMakeIt

5 ай бұрын

For sure, the more dense your parts are, the more they'll want to warp on you. I wanted to show this because it's quite hard to tell because the buildplate lifts away from the magnets; most people have no idea that it's happening. Personally I've found to have the best success with PETG, it seems to want to stay flat far better than the rest. Certainly printing in an enclosure will help to reduce the amount of stress during the print and should provide better results, heat creep can become a problem (I've never had it) hopefully over time better extruder-hotend thermal breaks in the newer printers should help to avoid these issues.

@spoolheads

5 ай бұрын

Thanks for the reply

Used PLA with a 3D pen, warping is severe, any flat surfaces longer than a centimeter or two get warped. With a 3d printer with an unheated and not perfectly leveled bed it also often was bad enough that even huge brim didn't help. Didn't have issues (yet?) with a heated bed and autoleveled printer.

I am new to pri ting and just got a K1. I have been printing PLA with it clos d in my unheated garage, temps have been hovering around freezing the last week or so. Getting good results to far.

@NeedItMakeIt

8 ай бұрын

This is actually perfect, I am working on a video right now on this very topic and your comment is really helpful to confirm what I was thinking. Do you have any form of insulation around the printer at all or just bare on the outside? BTW did you have to remove the tube from the cable chain coming into the extruder or has that very tight bend problem been fixed?

@shirk15

8 ай бұрын

@@NeedItMakeIt No extra insulation, just running PLA with the top closed. Decided to put a thermometer out there and see the actual temps. Today it's 10°C in the garage and 75+ % humidity. Inside the printer running a print it's 24°C and 32% humidity. I didn't do anything with the cable chain, just running it straight out of the box. This is my first printer.

@NeedItMakeIt

8 ай бұрын

@@shirk15 Okay, that's perfect, I'm waiting for it to stop raining here and I'll be doing a test outside when it's hopefully at or below zero to see what happens and I'll add my gauges in there as well. The Creality printer also has a few gaps here and there, they may be worth plugging up, even the exhaust fan. Part of the reason I wanted to make a video on this subject is that there is an increasing amount of research showing that 3d printing 'fumes' or micro particles could cause long-term health problems, and with more kids getting into this as well, we're better to keep the printing in the workshop/garage or non-living area. That along with good air filtration. I will probably need to buy an air-quality monitor and do some testing of my own. Oh you're lucky to have this as your first printer... I was blessed with an ANET A8, a rickety fire hazard. It was horrific to assemble and wobbled so bad that my first projects were to fix the printer. They've come a long way from just 5 years ago, that's for sure.

Good video I had missed, but I think you are taking the wrong temperature to calculate warping: not printing temperature but Tg, glass transition temperature, since above Tg stresses and warping can "flow" and (mostly) disappear. Once Tg is crossed, the plastic is frozen and warpage appears. You will see, if you measure more materials, that this approach leads to more accurate estimation of the amount of warpage. It was discussed on the Polymaker Discord some time ago. In fact you could do a theoretical approach as well by calculating expected warpage based on Tg and k. Anyway, once the Q1 arrives I think ill try to regulate chamber temperature for PLA to about 25 °C which should reduce warping, increase maybe adhesion and still allow proper cooling.

I wish I would have found this video a month ago. Thanks a ton!

@NeedItMakeIt

8 ай бұрын

You're welcome! It's not that clear what's going on and I think this was something most people could easily miss unless they have a surface plate or something very flat to check their prints on.

It definitely does, and is highly dependant on the design of the object

I was having a issue with warping when printing with pla+ and the the side with the AUX fan on to get rid of it I turn it off

@NeedItMakeIt

8 ай бұрын

That's good to know, I haven't had that problem myself. Did you happen to have the door open as well or was that door closed?

has anyoine figured out a way to stop elegooo pla+ to stop warpping ive gone high bed temps and draft shield 65-70c ive gone lo bed temps 0-40 and max cooling ive gone standard 60c and 50% fan i cant get elegoo pla + to stop warping

@NeedItMakeIt

Ай бұрын

The part itself could be the problem, if you're printing long and narrow parts, can you describe it for us?

I bought a Prusa MK4 and the warping I get in PLA has ruined my interest in 3D printing. My PLA prints warp so bad I can sometimes put my fingers under the print to remove it from the bed. I've changed the heat settings around and reprinting the same thing over, looking for better results. I clean the plate with isopropyl alcohol 99% and even starting cleaning that off with a damp cloth. I've tried draft shields and putting a garbage bag over the printer for the entire print. Nothing seems to fix the issue. The only thing that seems to stay suck the print plate seems to be Silk PLA (and like you mentioned in the video it pulls the plate off the bed a little. not very noticeable). I would think it would be surrounding air temp and moisture, but putting garbage bag over it didn't really help. I may just take that garbage bag and toss it out the window (with printer inside)

@NeedItMakeIt

3 ай бұрын

If you're printing heavy, lots of walls, and heavy infill, your part will want to warp. Ditch the plastic bag and go for a thick towel or a blanket. I just tried this with my Ender 3 V3 and it works wonders. Glue stick of course is also required. Your temp inside the "chamber" will reach around 40C with the blanket and that will be just fine for the job. If you like, you can sent your model to me and I can have a look to see what might be causing the trouble, but this is something that can be solved. Needitmakeit@gmail.com

@MitchMAH

3 ай бұрын

I don't really have a specific model causing the problem. everything seems to peal off the plate starting on the side the fan isn't facing. I don't mess with the default settings too much because I'm still learning, but I usually do 2 walls with 10%/15% cubic infill at temps recommended on filament rolls. If it's a small contact area on the plate, has sharp edges, or seams on one edges I'll do a brim. (the brim helps, but will start lifting too.) I will have to pick up a glue stick and give that a try, along with making the enclosure better. Thank you for your help! Also I appreciate that you made the video about PLA warping. I could only find PETG and ABS. This helps a lot

@NeedItMakeIt

3 ай бұрын

@@MitchMAH The only thing that comes to mind is that the offset to the bed isn't quite right, it needs to squish into the bed. If you're printing on a smooth bed, it's not going to resist the pull as much either. Personally I use glue stick on all of my prints. The only time I have a problem is if there is only a single line of contact with the plate and I print heavy parts that are prone to it. Grab the Elmers glue stick, I've found that works just as well as any. There are some cheap dollar store ones that don't work well at all. Let me know!

@MitchMAH

3 ай бұрын

@@NeedItMakeIt I tried using the glue you recommend. The prints are sticking better than ever. I've only printed one thing in two different filaments, but with the glue it was nearly perfect. I have the smooth PEI plate and the bed can't be manually leveled. I was afraid to mess with the Z offset because the print head probes every time and I didn't want it to go any lower than it measures. I still haven't enclosed it, but I will keep that in mind as well as the offset if I come across more warping. Thank you for all your help and the video. I wouldn't have used glue on PLA otherwise, and my troubleshooting was driving me insane with no good results.

@NeedItMakeIt

3 ай бұрын

@@MitchMAH That's perfect. Way back when.... 5+ years ago I started printing with ABS, which was a poor choice for a beginner, and I struggled so much, and eventually I ended up switching mainly to PETG. Having an enclosed printer pretty well solves most of those warpage issues these days but I continue to use glue stick because I know that I will have success. For the amount of time and cost, it's well worth it in my mind. Some filaments will give you more trouble than others, and some prints as well and unless you're printing the same part day in and out and have dialed in everything perfectly, it's hard to predict what will happen. That's my 2 cents anyway. I'm glad you've got it sorted out!

I used PLA on a project that had thinner areas touching the bed. I forgot to use rafts and it warped bid time! More so farther out towards the ends.

@NeedItMakeIt

8 ай бұрын

For sure, I wish I had some way of measuring how much force is applied, it's probably far more than what we expect. You would use a raft to help you on this? I think I've only used a raft once, back 4 years ago.

@jeffallen3382

8 ай бұрын

@@NeedItMakeIt I've never had problems before with this much warping as I did with this particular print. The part was maybe 3/16th wide and 3 inches long and all 3 warped up badly. I also had a problem with the heat block hunting for the commander heat settings. I had adjusted the temp after I started the print as it felt colder in my basement than usual. I was thinking the colder temps were going to cause a problem so I upped it a bit. Half way through the print (pretty much a stock Ender3v2) I saw the pid hunting to keep the temp at what I commanded it to. But I think the lack of using a raft around the thinner parts is what made it warp the most. The temp swings I think is what caused the poor appearance of the print. I had a lot of layers that looked terrible and then some areas that looked fine. This printer usually does a good job for me. The only thing I've done to it is replace the boden tube & fittings, & calibrated the e steps. I use a glue stick with every print. My thought was the lack of area that was "glued" to the bed caused the warp? I haven't printed anything since so I haven't tried redo this one yet. It wasn't anything serious, but I'd like to try again. I just need more PLA.

@marc_frank

8 ай бұрын

@@jeffallen3382 i think the issue is that the part IS glued to the bed, together with the temperature gradient along the z axis

@jeffallen3382

8 ай бұрын

@@marc_frank the thing is there wasn't much glue there as I went very light (more so than I usually lay down) thinking I always use "too much". Well that thinking screwed me and ruined this print.

Creality hyper PLA warped for me yesterday for the first time. The problem was low room temperature i guess.

@NeedItMakeIt

3 ай бұрын

I'll have a video coming out tomorrow which shows warpage on several materials, and one material which is highly resistant to warpage. Hyper PLA does seem to be prone to warpage, but I do believe that it's related to room temp/enclosure temperature. Also if you're printing a 'heavy part' that will contribute quite a bit to warpage.

@simonhazel1636

7 күн бұрын

​@@NeedItMakeItthe hyper PLA - cf warps quite a bit less, with the exception of large flat thin parts.

I've had my X1CC for over a year now and I just print with the door closed, even with pla, just because it works and works and works

@NeedItMakeIt

8 ай бұрын

That's good to know, there seem to be lots of people who mod their printers to add vents etc. I guess in my case I was doing high-speed and also fairly small prints, cooling was a problem, if the prints were a bit larger or more pieces on the plate, it would've been fine at the corners. I'm with you, I am a huge fan of the X1C. I like the K1 as well though and I think it can be better still, and I am also going to see if I can get my hands on a K1 Max, it would be nice to be able to test against each other.

@hologos_

8 ай бұрын

I bought P1S and I have to say that without a cool plate with bed temperature set to 35C, I get clogs (even with lid open but closed door). The filament snaps in the heatbreak. Never had this issue with P1P.

@NeedItMakeIt

8 ай бұрын

@@hologos_ I have to wonder if it more of a filament related issue. I have not had a single one of these problems with my printer; I suppose there is the fact that I'm running the hardened steel nozzle and it doesn't heat as well as yours does. There are so many variables involved. That's a great point though, running too hot can cause other problems which are different and equally as annoying as the ones shown in the video. Do you mind sharing the part your printing and the filament you run on it? You have me curious now!

@hologos_

8 ай бұрын

@@NeedItMakeItI am using PLA from Aurapol (Czech company) and I have to print with 240°C temperature with 15mm^3 max volumetric speed. Those clogs were with default stainless steel nozzle. After about 3 hours, the filament snapped in the heatbreak. Once while printing single color print and once while unloading in multicolor print. I guess the filament got soft. Since then I've been using cool plate and haven't had issues even with lid and doors closed. The parts I printed were a full bed organizer tray and the multicolor one was a Call of Duty headphones stand.

@roysigurdkarlsbakk3842

8 ай бұрын

I just use the hot plate and closed printer all the time, also with PLA. It just works. @@hologos_

could you do a video with AUX fan 10-100% and the differents of printquality of BBL PLA?

@NeedItMakeIt

8 ай бұрын

I can probably fit something in yes, do you have a print in mind that would be well suited to the tests? For the filament testing, I'm still getting running with my channel and I need a bit more traction (code for money) before I can purchase some filament. I do have some PETG coming next week and I have partial spools from Bambu which may be enough for some small test pieces as well.

i've had pla warp long thin tall prints on a (400mm)³ printer

@NeedItMakeIt

8 ай бұрын

That's one thing I don't do often, most of my parts are fairly short. Did it still stay attached the the buildplate and pull it away from the magnet?

@marc_frank

8 ай бұрын

@@NeedItMakeIt nope it lifted off, i had a glass plate. i'm now on textured pei, not sure if it would still do it

@NeedItMakeIt

8 ай бұрын

@@marc_frank I remember printing some heavy duty parts on a glass plate and when I removed it from the printer, the plate itself had changed shape, it was being pulled up so much that it deformed the glass. Textured PEI is supposed to be one of the best for adhesion during the print, I'll have to do a comparison down-the-line. You don't use any adhesive right?

@marc_frank

8 ай бұрын

@@NeedItMakeIt not anymore. on the glass i tried spray glue (spread thin using acetone)

@jeffallen3382

8 ай бұрын

That's what my part was like that I described above in my post. It was maybe 3/16th wide x 3 inches long and 3 inches high. It curled up bad towards the end of this part. The farther out, the worse the warp. My thinking was because I didn't use a raft support. I use a glue stick and my thought was it wasn't able to stick well?

hi everyone, an external cooling air saurce is the best solution for a closed printer 🙃🙃🙃

@NeedItMakeIt

3 ай бұрын

The CPAP approach?

@sb53-systemssc28

3 ай бұрын

​@@NeedItMakeIt any system like a (bigtreetech universal turbo kit) that takes air flow from outside the chambre.

@NeedItMakeIt

3 ай бұрын

@@sb53-systemssc28 If you're printing at extremely high speeds and an especially small part I'd imagine you'd need to bring in cooler air to compensate. The new T1 and S1 have a CPAP style fan do to this and they're quite a bit faster... at least on paper they are.

@sb53-systemssc28

3 ай бұрын

this is also necessary for the heatsink, otherwise we are trying to cool it with the 60° if the chamber is heated 🥵, can u make it ?

@NeedItMakeIt

3 ай бұрын

@@sb53-systemssc28 Absolutely, I haven't had much success printing PLA in an enclosure with the door closed, it's mainly due to cooling overhangs, but yes if you can cool that heatsink well enough I think it can open up some possibilities. The fan for the heatsink usually pulls in air from the chamber, unless the new setup are different I'd have to have a closer look.

Why in this day does your video have so much whitewash / high white balance?

@NeedItMakeIt

8 ай бұрын

There are a couple of reasons, the main one is that I am just now starting to experiment with recording myself, and I have to learn a lot about how to do this. When it comes to recoding myself talking, I am starting at zero, and there's a lot more to it than one would imagine. I am pushing myself hard to produce 2 videos each week, I can't always get there depending on if things actually work out the way I expect (they don't tend to) so it's tough to get all of the time to put out top-notch quality at this point. As I get better, everything should take less time and I don't need to waste so much time learning, and I can just do it. The last part is really more of a personal choice., and that is that I don't really want to focus my videos around editing them well, I want them to be full of new ideas, and helpful tips, or something new that has never been done before. On the other side of it, if being successful at this means that I need to do the lighting better, that's what I'll do, and it will get really good. For me, it tends to be a slow evolution. Tonight I decided to swap out my camera lenses, they were a big part of the problem, and I do have far too much overhead light in the shop, good for filming 'things', not good for filming people. Anyways I hope that makes sense. Thanks for your comments, I appreciate everyone being completely open, and if it makes sense, I'm happy to do it.

@ZealousDragon

8 ай бұрын

@@NeedItMakeIt Makes total sense. Thanks for the reply. Glad you didn't take it offensively as I was just asking. Really great content. Keep them coming, you are doing great.

@NeedItMakeIt

8 ай бұрын

@@ZealousDragon No thanks a lot for the feedback, I really appreciate it! You confirmed what I was thinking as well; I am not quite skilled enough in Davinci yet to understand what do to and how to do it. I'm also a little tentative in the color area because I am red-green deficient. Next video... "dude, why is everything green? " "Oh, uhhhh, well I was messing with the colors a bit and.." That would be pretty funny, but in a sad and true way. You should see some better camera work on the videos I release next week, that and I'm also working on improving the audio a bit more as well. I may end up getting a teleprompter also; it takes a long time to record and memorize everything I need to cover. That should help quite a bit just to stay on track, not to read it word for word like a robot though. Have a good night/morning, it's 2:30am here, time for a bit of shut-eye!