Good stuff, I left the Pre-Trib camp a few years ago and have currently come to rest on a Pre-Wrath view. However, I am always studying and have learned not to be dogmatically so rigid that I can’t adapt if needed. Only The Lord knows all the details, we are just doing our best in light of scripture and the current times.

@squirreljones3595

Жыл бұрын

Matthew 24 36 Jesus says no man knows the day except the Father John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times Jesus is Truth Jesus dosen't make mistakes Jesus is talking about two Resurrections Revelation 20 shows two Resurrections One is called the First Resurrection One is at the Last day Revelation 21 shows no more days in New Jerusalem Jesus is Truth Keep the Faith Mystery Babylon added the church to the thousand year reign of Jesus Revelation 7 14 Only saints get white robes Revelation 20 4 Only the saints that overcome the Mark of the beast reign with Jesus for the thousand year reign of Jesus Good luck Take heed that no man deceives you

@handles617

Жыл бұрын

​@@squirreljones3595stop spamming

@squirreljones3595

Жыл бұрын

@@handles617 Jesus is Truth It only takes 70 minutes to listen to Revelation Don't listen to men Listen to Jesus only

@handles617

Жыл бұрын

@squirreljones3595 as I've said before many times to you, you are the ONLY one making a contradictory claim here. And GROW UP and stop making snarky comments like "jesus is truth I'm right you're wrong" And act your own age by either following through with comments and not running away when you can't prove your point, or don't comment at all.

@ChrisHolman

Жыл бұрын

Amen Brother! God Bless You!!

Thank you Joel, the body of Christ is so thankful for your truth from scripture; debunking lies and deception. Blessed be the Lord God who knows ALL. I 🙏 pray the Lord continues to bless you and the FAI family in debunking such blatant apostasy. Maranatha

@larrybarnett5799

10 ай бұрын

with all due respect, its not a deal breaker for salvation...

About time that this stuff was debunked. Thank you Joel-

@metapolitikgedanken612

Жыл бұрын

It won't be an issue, if people read their bibles more thoroughly. Guess the Holy Spirit is even a better help. I was allergic to star-trek theology right from the beginning.

@williambillycraig1057

7 ай бұрын

@@metapolitikgedanken612 "star-trek theology?" Many people find star-trek more believable than most biblical concepts. Are you trashing the Bible as a whole with your star-trek theology" comment?

@metapolitikgedanken612

7 ай бұрын

@@williambillycraig1057 I'm trashing the belief in a 'pretribulation rapture', which is justified by distorting scripture. If a ministry propagates that it's time to leave and look for another one that isn't deceived/deceiving others.

@bigtobacco1098

5 ай бұрын

​@williambillycraig1057 at one time most people believed that the sun rotated around the earth...

Love this series. Much of this I was taught (with no critical examination) as a young believer in the early ‘80s. I grieve for my brothers and sisters who continue to be deceived by this doctrine.

@williambillycraig1057

7 ай бұрын

What if it is true, and this teacher and those who believe in what he says is true are the ones deceived? Just a thought.

@wolfhound45

7 ай бұрын

@@williambillycraig1057 I have considered that often. If he is wrong, then these believers are still gathered in the pre-tribulation rapture. If he is right, then a great many individuals will experience a great falling away (2 Thessalonians 2:3) as they come to the realization that there is no pre-tribulational rapture of the saints.

@bigtobacco1098

5 ай бұрын

​@@williambillycraig1057then the entire church was deceived until the rapture was invented

Mathew 13 wheat and tares extinguished the pre trib rapture. Jesus said "Let both grow together until the harvest". The harvest is on the last day, not 7 years before. If there was a "pre harvest", Jesus would be wrong, and we know that is not possible.

@boldbeliever52

Жыл бұрын

That's NOT the topology of countless stories in scripture. Deep study reveals the truth of pre trib. Skim reading, not so much. Or just read about the rapture of Enoch in the book of Genesis. Taken BEFORE the flood

@dustinnoel8371

Жыл бұрын

@@boldbeliever52lol … The fact you have to use “deep studies” shows that you are wrong. You are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. The only way you can get a pre trib rapture is by inferring it into scripture. There are only 4 verses in the Bible that explicitly talk about the Rapture and none of them say there is a pre trib rapture. So the Bible is pretty clear on it without having to do a “deep study” as you say. You can also do a deep study and you still won’t find a pre trib rapture.

@JLMAX22

Жыл бұрын

How long before the flood?

@benny-yj7pq

Жыл бұрын

@@JLMAX22 500 years before. But they use every scripture to read their Rapture view into it. But then some say, not even Yeshua knew about the Rapture, only Paul revealed it. The truth is, there is no Rature timing revealed in the Tanach.

@user-zd3ti9vl8b

5 ай бұрын

People make such statement of rapture not being in the Tanuch. LoL what is Psalm 90 taking about. BUT yeh with Rmsnastic / CAnasnite/ Egyptian theology ( which Ordox Jews also hold) is just a "Spirtual flying away" really. Is it really about our personal age ( some younger and some older ) or is it about the age of Israel as a nation. Now. And yeh maybe it's about our modern airplanes. Yeh after all ( taken out of contex like UCG etc - John 3:13 - only JESUS went to heaven ( really needs to read in contex ) twisted teaching all around. Saw hologram of 3rd Trmple while in Israel 2019 NO wall to touch. ( pastors and how many others have seen this yeh maybe Richardson and Dalton too ) but choose to NOT tell others Why Ezeck 34 feed upon the sheep. Yeh Math 27:53 is pre-trib Every 1000 yrs is an event Enoch in first 1000 yrs. YESHUA JESUS sated "coming again" 3 events of each side of the cross. Total of 7 even 8th event Rev 21 after 1000 yrs. Calgary Ab Cdn 1 Four Zero Three Eight Zero Three Fortyone Twentyfour. Hope/ pray/ fast to C u's.

I recently watched a video on the history of Watchtower theology. Darby was among those including Charles Taze Russel, mentioned as being part of the discussions during the 1800's concerning the 'last-days . (You may already know this, sorry, I've yet to finish your video).The Watchtower's approach to Bible study is very similar to the pre-tribers approach, in that, if the bible doesn't say what they want, they'll go looking for a 'work-around'.

These books are classic examples of seeing what you believe instead of believing what you see.

@williambillycraig1057

7 ай бұрын

But this teaching is not "classic examples of seeing what you believe instead of believing what you see?" ok.

@user-zd3ti9vl8b

6 ай бұрын

Hey.cant even believe what we see. Saw hollogram of 3rd Temple in Israel 2019 Pastors saw this too How many others saw this hollogram. NO wall to touch yet Richardson and others still teach what? Likes to slam others. But whst does Richardson and Dalton and how many others really teach. More of what authors are teaching wrongly. But often quite deceptive of what they actuslly do teach Ecc "words should be like well driven nails" But nope it's dance around why? Ecc 34 feed upon the sheep. Keep the donations coming. Wouldn't want to affend anyone. Math 24,:12-15:true love is wax cold ( KJV); is NOT dietary issue in some future 3rd Temple But covetousness that is now bring called "good christian stewardship ( and yes get tax deduction from athestic Gov ) Beware. Just because some teachers might be Jewish and/ or from Israel. ( does NOT mean it's good or accurate teaching.)

@bigtobacco1098

5 ай бұрын

​@@williambillycraig1057I'll stick with what the church has ALWAYS believed

The Introduction contains an excellent explanation of the various terms. Good clarification. 🙏

I sense a theme w your anti Dispensationalism videos. IMHO, the vital part is the extent to which a particular brand of Dispensationalism teaches different modes of salvation in different dispensations, i.e., teaching more than one Gospel. There is only one Gospel - salvation is by grace through faith alone in the work and Person of Jesus Christ alone. It is the everlasting Gospel of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Lol love the title considering the book" dispensationalism before Darby" that many pretribbers have been using, Robert breaker in particular references this book alot.

@handles617

Жыл бұрын

Robert breaker is such a quack.i cannot understand how people can be so gullible to believe the decoding nonsense he spews

@michellebehr7669

Жыл бұрын

Wow. It "clearly" got shredded on this video and rightly so.

Well done, Joel! Blessings to you.

wall of seperation was torn down by the cross,

What's interesting about Dispensationalism is that Jesus went out of His way to make it clear that He *will never* return in secret, yet Dispensationalism insists He *will* return in secret. Even more interesting, Paul insists mankind has only been saved *one way* (only one Gospel), yet Dispensationalism insists mankind is *saved in different ways* during different dispensations. *Salvation is only by, has only been by, and only will be by, grace through faith alone in the work and Person of Jesus Christ alone.* This is the everlasting Gospel of the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world.

@michellebehr7669

Жыл бұрын

Dispensation ignores that if this were absolutely true then Christian women wouldn't suffer childbirth anymore because that was under the curse of Adam the first man in a different dispensation. Jesus said IT IS FINISHED. If women are still suffering childbirth and Christians can still die in this dispensation as they always have since Adam and Eve then why wouldn't Christians be here until the end when Jesus returns? We've never been exempt before. The terrible thing about this teaching is people won't be prepared. Imagine telling a 9 month pregnant woman she's not going to experience labour?

I don't understand why people can't just believe what the book says. I don't know where they come up with all these alternate theories that make no sense and are actually the opposite of what the text says.

@bigtobacco1098

5 ай бұрын

Every cult says that

Although the dispensationalists don't actually teach this, I find many assume they will never experience true persecution. The focus of many of those churches is the avoidance of earthly suffering. This often leads to bad theodicy and an emphasis on escapism rather than endurance. It has not led to greater success in evangelism.

@wbl5649

7 ай бұрын

indeed escapism. Especially held by American Christians. Somehow they think the will be exempt from true suffering because they think they are "special, better" than all the myriad of Christians who have suffered tremendously down through history and are even brutally suffering now in parts of the world, being martyred, beheaded, burned alive , churches shot up etc. But Western Christians think the Lord will spare THEM any such suffering. Suffering to them is being in Church without air conditioning or not having a latte in the coffee bar at Church before service.

Can someone tell me why this series stops at session 25 and why the Revelation series starts at session 45 on the app? I have to search KZread to find the missing sessions. I love your teachings! You have converted me from the pre-trib school of thought. I did have questions in the back of my mind concerning pre-trib and you are answering them. Thank you for all you do, and may God bless you and your ministry!

I don't hold to the doctrine of the Rapture, but who cares if anyone saw it before? The only question is whether it's biblical or not. Period. "Unless you can convince me by scripture, and not by Popes and Councils which have often contradicted each other, unless I am so convinced that I am wrong, my conscience is captive to the Word of God." -Martin Luther (the only guy in the room defending the gospel of the free grace of God). Darby saw Israel has a future against the massive Covenant theology dominance of his age (and now). Numbers mean nothing to me, "history" means nothing to me.

@jsmittylife

Жыл бұрын

Amen brother. The word of God is the only thing that verifies and validates the doctrines of Christianity, not the beliefs of men. The rapture falls completely apart when held up against what the word of God actually says.

@MichaelScotto

Жыл бұрын

@@jsmittylife I said I don't hold to it. But I would never try to "debunk" it using history, numbers, "church fathers," "confession" or anything else which many do (especiall the Reformed). If that's allowed as "evidence" the Catholic Church has us all beat. Sola Scriptura and the full inspiration and inerrancy of the Word of God is a minority opinion in Christendom. In fact, it's a minority opinion in Evangelicalism, as is the doctrine that God has a future plan for Israel. In the vast sea of what is called Christendom, all claiming the "early church," precious few hold that Israel is still a covenant people. But numbers don't matter. If no one believed it, it wouldn't change a thing. When the Lord announced he would be taken by the Jews, handed over to the Gentiles to be put to death, exactly zero of his disciples believed him. Not only that, they opposed the idea. Darby may have been wrong on that doctrine, but he didn't build his argument on history or tradition or numbers of adherents. Men like Sproul worshiped Aquinas despite Aquinas denying the finality of the work of Christ. Sproul's opinion is the "majority" opinion and the testimony of history...but he couldn't be more wrong.

@JoelRichardson

Жыл бұрын

You've misunderstood this series 100%. I am simply debunking the false claims that a pre-trib rapture was ever taught until recently. The biblical arguments have already all been made. Now we are debunking false arguments and false claims. Blessings.

@jsmittylife

Жыл бұрын

@@MichaelScotto I agree. We see this all over Christianity. What most believe, they can't actually take you to where it is taught in the word of God.

@jsmittylife

Жыл бұрын

@@JoelRichardson I understand what you are doing by debunking the pretrib rapture, but I am stating that any doctrinal view you choose of the rapture is false, not just pretrib. The "rapture" or catching away is only an action that takes place to believers at the event of the resurrection of the dead, nothing more. It is never taught as a doctrine itself, but the resurrection of the dead is. The rapture is just a symptom of premillennialism. Let me ask you this. Do you believe that believers and unbelievers are resurrected at different times?

So good to have a teacher like Joel to debunk these guys. I changed my belief about pretrib rap because of Joel and Dalton's teachings. Such solid truth! We need to be ready for the trib and trust in God, not looking "for a way out". God bless you Joel.

@williambillycraig1057

7 ай бұрын

When you say, "teacher like Joe." Do you mean openly hostile to others who may disagree with him? A teacher with out love is a clanging symbol.

@bigtobacco1098

5 ай бұрын

​@@williambillycraig1057muh feels

Joel, thank you for all the time you’ve spend in preparation

The bible is straightforward. A person can read it without any other teaching and come to a saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. In the same way if you just read the scriptures without any other "teaching" you you understand that the Lord is returning after the tribulation of those days. I have been taught pre-tribulation many times by preachers much smarter than me and I wanted to believe it, but when I went back and read what the bible plainly says I could not make it say that. My concern is many Christians are not ready for what is about to happen, they will be like the foolish virgins without any oil. 😢 I therefore thank you Joel and FAI for your systematic exposition of the scriptures showing us what the bible teaches. God bless you❤

@user-ym9yp3ci9p

3 ай бұрын

So Paul writes in Thessalonians of the Rapture or the Pre tribulation. Man this is some heavy stuff! I'm confused!

I “clearly” love Joel’s snark! “CLEARLY!”

@williambillycraig1057

7 ай бұрын

Your definition of Snark is different than mine. What I saw was not snark.

Does anyone have any additional information on that John Birchensha fellow? I looked him up but I couldn't find anything relevant to his religious views. Wikipedia does have an article for him, but it doesn't mention anything at all about his religious views. Apparently he wasn't even trained in theology or biblical studies; he was a musical theorist.

Thank you Joel🙏🏼

Aleister Crowley attended John Nelson Darby's church in his youth. In this chapter, the author describes how Darby's heretical doctrine of dispensationalism ultimately beared influence on Crowley's occult worldview. "Envisioning the Birth of a New Aeon: Dispensationalism and Millenarianism in the Thelemic Tradition" by Henrik Bogdan Chapter 4 of the book, "Aleister Crowley and Western Esotericism"

@Coffeendonuts

5 ай бұрын

Darby was also married to a Rothschild and was a 33 degree free mason

There are two different raptures in the Bible. The first rapture was well known among the Jews even in the Old Testament. The Lord Jesus explains Matt 24 for us, by first explaining Matt 13. He talked about the tares and the wheat. The tares are the the children of the wicked one. The good seed (wheat) are the children of the kingdom. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all that offend . . . . And in verse 30 we have the order: Gather ye together FIRST the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn (1000 yr kingdom). In Matt 24:40 we see this further explained: Then shall two be in the field, the one shall be taken (Tares), and the other (the wheat) left. (to go in to the 1000 yr kingdom. This describes the rapture of the ungodly. This rapture was known in the OT. Prov 2:21-22 "For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it. But the wicked shall be cut of from the earth and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it. The other rapture, the rapture of the church, was only taught by the apostle Paul in 1 Thes 4:13-18 and 1 Cor 15:51-52. The Lord Jesus did only speak about the church as something he would create in the future. "And on this rock (talking about himself) I will (future) build My church. Joh Ch 14 is not talking about the rapture. Some believe the Lord is preparing a place for us now, and when He is done, he will come back to get us to heaven. That is not what He is saying. He is already done preparing a place for us. He created the world and everything in 6 days, He don't need 2000 yrs to prepare a place for us. It was prepared when He died for us. And after he died, His Spirit came back to receive us unto himself. That is what the Bible teach in John ch 14. vers 23 If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and WE will come to him and make OUR home with him. After He rose, he came in the Spirit, to take us to him, so that we should be were He is (verse 3) Seated in the heavenly ( Eph 2:6) "I will not leave you orphans, I WILL COME TO YOU" vers 18 And he did. Without the prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27 we would have been in the dark, regarding the coming tribulation period. But we see that there are one "Sevens" left. The first 3,5 yrs clearly correspond with what the Lord talk about as the "beginning of sorrows (the birth pangs, because the earth is going to be regenerated for the kingdom Matt 19:24) The seven churches in Rev ch 2 and 3 is a prophecy with at least three different "layers". The first is the natural, being the seven churches that existed when John lived. The next is the church age, and we now live in the Philadelphia age, which is soon to be overlapped by the Laodicea, which is the harlot church. To the church in Philadelphia, it says: "Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth." The hour of trial is synonym with the day of vengeance (Is 61). Whom are the Lord going to take vengeance on? It is the ungodly. "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" 2 Thes 1:8 There are two kind of wrath or tribulation. One that we, as believers have to go through because we ar the children of God. We go through persecution in this world. " and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God." Acts 14:22 These tribulations has been inflicted on us by humans. But there is another wrath to come on this earth, not against His own body, but against the evil ones: "Go and pour out on the earth the seven bowls of the wrath of God.” Rev 16:1 The Lord Jesus is the head. We are His body. He don't plan to harm himself. "For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; [10] And to WAIT FOR HIS SON from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which DELIVERED us from the wrath to come" 1 Thes 1:9-10 We are not waiting for Anti-Christ to appear in the middle of the trib. We are waiting to be caught up in clouds to meet the Lord in the air. 1 Thes 4:13-18. Paul does not mention that the Lord is coming down to the earth here in these verses. This was a mystery, not mentioned in the gospels, and not known in the OT. The Lords coming, mentioned in Matt 24, after the Trib, was foreknown in the OT as the Day of the Lord - a scary day. "Woe to you who desire the day of the Lord! For what good is the day of the Lord to you? It will be darkness, and not light" Amos 5:18 When we read the book of Mathew about the chosen one, don't think that we, the Church are the only chosen one. God has a future plan for Israel. He sent out the 12 to preach the gospel of the kingdom, and He prophesied and said that they would not be done with the preaching before the Son of man comes Matt 10:23 The apostles who were commended to this task have all passed away. In the Trib, this prophecy will probably be fulfilled by 12000 of each of the 12 tribes of Israel. These are the first fruit of the Israel who is going to be saved. They will travel the world and preach the gospel of the Kingdom - The good news about the coming Kingdom. And when that preaching is done, then comes the end of this age, and a new period is beginning, the 1000 yr kingdom. There will be a sheep and got judgment at this time, where the gentiles will be judged according to how they received the traveling Israeli preachers, the least of His brothers. Matt 25:31-46. This is not the first judgment, because the judgment of the believers comes first. "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" 1 Pet 4:17 This is a judgment, not to select who will be saved or not, but to test our work, and to suffer loss of reward, or to receive a reward. The final judgment of all the ungodly comes after the 1000 yr kingdom, before the Great white throne. Rev Ch 20. Was some of this new to you? Cut, paste and save, and pray over it. May the Lord bless you as you seek the truth regarding the coming of the Lord. Amen

Joel, Do you have a study bible or commentary that you recommend to stay away from dispensationalism?

I believe the church is approaching a choke point where this truth that Joel and Dalton are teaching will become louder and more frequent right up until the arrival of the man of lawlessness. I know I’ve felt compelled to charitably talk thru these truths with any who will engage in the conversation, and FAI has challenged me to study more and has equipped me for those conversations. Such a gift to the body of Christ in these last days!!

@williambillycraig1057

7 ай бұрын

Do you think he "charitably talked thru these truths?"

@bigtobacco1098

5 ай бұрын

​@@williambillycraig1057muh feels

@Coffeendonuts

5 ай бұрын

Why would anyone not want to be around for the tribulation and witness God’s miracles and wrath. We shall be protected during this time just as Meshech, Shadrach and Abednego were protected from the fires of Nebechenzzar’s furnace. Just as Jesus stood with them in the furnace so shall he stand with his bride during the tribulation.

@bigtobacco1098

5 ай бұрын

@@Coffeendonuts why would anyone believe in that eschatology??? It's only 200 years old

So basically, the entire idea that Dispensationalism is ancient is based on a fallacy of composition, arguing that commonalities between Dispensationalists and ancient witnesses on individual doctrines implies that both support Dispensationalism as a common system. This is a "101 Error" and what I suspected. Thanks, Joel, for this expose. @ChrisHolman

So this premier only started 15 mins ago yet the prepared Adventist commented over 13 hours ago, I seen this afew times with other creators/videos/premiere, I'd like to understand why it happens.

@handles617

Жыл бұрын

You can comment early

@ThePreparedAdventist

Жыл бұрын

I saw it on my timeline as to be premiered soon, but comments were already open. So, I just went ahead and commented.

Good stuff. I've interacted several times with James Morris the writer of the first book you discuss. I agree with you, academic and responsible can not be words associated with his work. The mental and verbal gymnastics he goes through to try to twist words that clearly prove Irenaeus was post-trib into saying the exact opposite are truly amazing. I've dealt with drug addicts and mental patients whose ramblings made more sense.

Yes, if the millenium was now, then... it really sucks! No better way to put it!😂

@kimmykimko

8 ай бұрын

Or you are interpreting it wrong.

@bigtobacco1098

5 ай бұрын

If you believe in 3 "second" coming s... hmmmm

There is an error in your session notes on the FAI app for this particular teaching. On page 2 it states that Dispensationalism was created by John Nelson Darby in the 1930’s. I think it’s meant to be, 1830’s. It’s not a terrible mistake, just a typo, but for the sake of clarity I thought you (Joel)might want to make the correction. God bless you for your service to us sheep! Thank you!

@williambillycraig1057

7 ай бұрын

The main error was his contempt for his brothers and sisters in Christ, whose crime was to disagree with him. God be with him as he is toward fellow Christians.

I think that the reference to the church facing the Anti-Christ in the tribulation in the commentary was part of the commentary that Jerome added. I have looked over the unaltered version from Victorinus’ commentary and I cannot find this statement. I’ll keep looking into it but I think that that statement would actually be Jerome’s.

the lord is with you in the words you have spoken

Joel thank you so much, it cannot be easy to expose the falsified "evidence" that these leaders in the body of Christ purport. Someday I would love to see one of them finally agree to debate you

They used to say that Darby made it all up because nobody had heard of his ideas before 1830. NOW that we have hundreds of archival sources that express the core ideas behind Darby's systematized eschatology, they say none of it counts because they’re not identical? But Darby systematized eschatology, and that's not just organizing information. Where there were disputes, Darby made choices, and he developed ideas further. Did you know that Darby was initially mid-trib, just like the churchmen in the book who lived in the centuries before he was born? Still think his ideas weren’t heard before 1830?

Didn't I just read in mark 13:24 it clearly says after the tribulation there seems to be a lot of verses that clearly state these topics but I guess people want to believe what they want to believe 😢

Where do you get 7 year Tribulation?

@LarryCulp-oe8td

Жыл бұрын

A seven year Tribulation Is Not in The Bible

And with the impending "catastrophies" by plotters of evil almost befalling humanity, how do you think "God will enjoy seeing His own partake of His Wrath [1 Thess 5] when in fact it is said therein that we are NOT destined to this "wrath"?

@handles617

Жыл бұрын

That verse isn't discussing the physical wrath, but eternal wrath. Many pre tribbers would agree with this. If it was talking about physical wrath, then by claiming the opposite of salvation is physical wrath, you would have to claim nobody is saved during the 7 years, since they would've experienced the wrath, since you are destined for salvation not wrath. This is even ignoring the fact that Joel agrees we do not receive gods wrath. You would know this if you actually understood what you're arguing against.

Joel Lee brainard has two new videos out trying to say the fathers taught the rapture. I stated he was a liar and he blocked any other comments. Then his second one does not allow comments. Please do another video about his new one. Thanks.

@handles617

Жыл бұрын

Lee brainard isn't just spreading misinfo, but outright lies. You can't possibly tell me that the same guy who wrote a giant book about the meaning of a single Greek word could change a phrase from "see it all" to "see it at all" and not understand that it changes the meaning.

Dispensationalism popularized not just pre tribulationism, but popularized premillennialism. Before Darby, the amillennial and postmillennial view was the dominant view of the church.

Division of history is one thing however when speaking of unfulfilled future events, its hypothetical, like the big bang theory for the church. There's no 'debating' with someone that cannot see what's actually written. They are coming at the text in a state of blind confusion due to their preconceptions. I was faced with this issue as a new believer back in 94, after I read The Sign, which is pre-wrath. Apart from dispensationalism there is no pre-trib rapture.

Good job on debunking the pre-trib arguments. I am not pre-trib or post-trib but rather mid-trib (which is not pre-wrath). I don't see Paul's 'last trump' of I Cor 15:52 in Matthew 24 but rather midway at Rev 10:7 through Rev 12:5 when the mystery of God (the church age) is finished. I invite you Joel to check out my series on the mid-trib. Blessings.

@ryanr.8077

7 ай бұрын

I’m on the pre-wrath wagon. Makes the most sense, scripturally. Christian believers will be taken out at the opening of the Sixth seal.

@bigtobacco1098

5 ай бұрын

No rapture wagon

Matthew Henry taught a form of it.. Paul introduced it.

Thanks Joel!!! Did you eat any haggis in Scotland?

What about the book “The Coming of the Messiah in Glory and Majesty” from 1811. (Jesuit, Manuel Lacunza) Translated into English in 1827 by Edward Irving? The rapture seems to have first been presented in this book. These men influenced Darby. Is it not concerning to you that Jesuits Priests were involved in developing the futurist view of eschatological matters to deflect from the great apostasy that was the RCC?

How many resurrections will there be? Answer: two. Blessed and holy are they who are in the first resurrection (Rev 20:6). (Keep in mind that the rapture and the first resurrection are the same) This glorious event takes place when the two witnesses are raptured/resurrected. (1) they hear a great voice from heaven saying unto them, "Come up hither.” And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. (Rev 11:12) (2) first the dead in Christ are raised and quickly followed by those who are alive (whose bodies takes on immortality in the moment in the twinkling of an eye.) (3) our enemies will see us ascend into heaven just was people saw Jesus ascend into heaven. (4) Rev 11:13-14 starts the second and third woes. We won't experience God’s wrath because we have just been raptured! Thank you, Lord Jesus!!

There is 1 book of the bible that I think ECW/ECF interpretations of should actually be dismissed and that novel interpretations should have more consideration, and that is Daniel, because Daniel is specifically sealed until the time of the end. people interpreting Daniel 8 as Alexander the Great, I'd say are wrong because Gabriel says multiple times that it is the time of the end, and the final indignation. The final indignation was not hundreds of years before Christ, Christ said the Abomination of Desolation would be a future event His disciples would see. We should be reading Daniel without the baggage of historical interpretations that cause us not to pay attention to how God through Daniel says the end of the age is going to play out. If God through Daniel says there's going to be the first King of Javan, attacking Persia, and then growing into an empire, that is divided into 4 sections, and the Little Horn (Antichrist) comes from one of these divisions, we should pay attention to it, and not just say "oh all fulfilled in the past, this is about Alexander the Great and Antiochus". God had Gabriel explain to Daniel, that this was about the final indignation. Who knows though, Daniel might still be sealed, but we should be reading it without the baggage of past interpretations that we KNOW are based on a sealed book. Jesus said to understand Daniel, but Daniel itself says that only at the time of the end would the wise understand it.

The word Dispensation means the giving of something, when Paul says that the Secret, the Dispensation of Grace, has been revealed to him, because that is why he was saved, it means that God has granted him (revealed something new), that is why we have in KJV 1611 which is also the perfectly preserved Word of God, mentions 4 times the Word Dispensation, that is, in a couple of sentences that we debunk a false teacher and false doctrine, therefore learn to properly separate the Word of Truth in Scripture 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV

You've completely misrepresented the A-mill /Postmill position btw.

I hope in a future debunking you cover the issue with the dispensational idea of the separation of Church and Israel. You say on the one hand you’re not replacement so I don’t really understand where your position lies and why. This comment is not meant as slander or insult but just one of curiosity. Maranatha

Another term, the offical term, for historic premillinialism is Historicism.

Big trouble is trying to fit 3 seperate diff events into only 1 event. Math 27:52-53 is pre-trib , prior to Nero , is 1st Century AD is on Hebrew day called "First Fruits' is Rev 14:4 yes First Fruits. Yes all are youtful virgins again ( could NOT find Lazuruis at the dinner. Is 1 Cor 15:53 yet.Richardson teaches that just fiture Kimgdom on the earth. ( thst there is NO rspture ) There are 3 events before and after the cross Enoch is in first 1000 . Yes total of 7 events yes even 8th Rev 21. WALK in the LIGHT 1 Four Zero Three Eight Zero Three Fortyone Twentyfour . Hope/ pray/ fast C u's. Richsrdson makes such statrments about Darby. Yet Polycorp disciple of John. taught a "cautching up" mid- trib ( pre- wrath.) Then 2 witnesses NO MSM and false teachers will NOT tell the truth. First darknes/ deception. Then Light/ Truth. Rev 11 and Rev 20 are both "caught up" ( raptured) Romanism has taught falsely that only 2nd coming.

To much talk on trying to debunk books that speak about dispensionalism and pretrib. What does the Bible say about it.? Is there any books (scholastic) on post trib before the ones quoted or mentioned? Humm?

The faith of multitudes will be ruined when future events do not unfold as so boldly interpreted by a novel rapture-centred dispensationalism. ✔️

The more I study pretrib dispensationalism...the more I'm convinced it's a damaging heresy... the parable of the wise and foolish virgin is about preparation, if you teach pretrib...your relaxing the saints into a comfortable place to not prepare for his second coming but looking to escape death or to never face death. This is damaging to me.

How does premillennialism compare to what Jesus and the apostles taught. Premillennialism has believers raised before the millennium and before the final of judgement. Jesus tells us when he would raise believers, and also when he would judge unbelievers. John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day Martha confirms this teaching in her response to Jesus John 11:24 I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. How do we hold to doctrines that claim to raise believers before the last day? John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. Jesus says he will judge on the same day he raises us. What is the last day? It is the last day of this age. Mk 10:30 but that he will receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal life. When we are raised is when we receive eternal life and enter the age to come where we neither marry and are not given in marriage, but we shall be like the angels Luke 20:35,36 Lk 20:35 but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. 1 Cor 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 1 Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. Paul teaches here that when believers are resurrected then the last enemy death will be defeated for good. Which mean sin and death cannot still be in the world after the resurrection of believers. When do we see death defeated for good in the bible? Rev 20:14 Rev 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. This is right before the eternal state in Rev 21 where we see new heavens and new earth and in verse 4 we are told there is no more death. What else do we see in Rev 20? Resurrection of the dead and a judgement of those not found in the book of life. Both together on the same day just as Jesus said. How do we hold to any doctrine then that has sin and death still remaining in the world after believers are resurrected as premillennialism holds?

@handles617

Жыл бұрын

The consequences are essentially nothing if you believe in premillenialism but one coming event. If you believe it, how is there a real consequence? My eternal life doesn't depend on it, and it's not like it would affect my actions in my life. If I'm wrong then I just incorrectly believed in a 1000 year period that happened spiritually and will actually just be a new heaven and earth. If I'm amillenial and wrong, we'll I'm alive right now before the literal millenium so I'm either going to have eternal life or not, and wouldn't be around long enough unsaved to find out I was actually wrong.

@jsmittylife

Жыл бұрын

@@handles617Even though it is not an issue of salvation, it is still one of God's truths given to us. It does affect your actions in life, it affects what tell or teach someone about the word of God. 2 Tim 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a worker who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. We are to be diligent to handle accurately the word of truth. All of his word is truth, not just some of it. If you don't care whether you are right or wrong about it, then you probably shouldn't speak on it if the truth of the subject doesn't matter to you. There is nobody in the bible that followed Christ that had the attitude of we can agree to disagree about the doctrines of Christ. They knew there was one truth of God and he left it for us to know in his word. Scripture must say what you believe, or you have just created an assumption and lean on your own understanding and not God's, and our beliefs cannot contradict what scriptures says. Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding. I do not say any of this to be rude or arrogant or a know it all. I say this because our zeal should be for the complete word and truth of God. He left us the only hermeneutic we needed in Proverbs 30. Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is tested; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him. 6 Do not add to His words Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar. He gave us all we needed to know about the truths that he wanted us to know. God bless. I truly wish you the best.

@boldbeliever52

Жыл бұрын

@backtobible23 the Bible is to be taken literally wherever it makes sense to do it. The millennial reign being the last of 7 thousand year periods is upon us. It is sad that people don't apply 2nd Peter 3:8 to God's word. You are denying the seventh day, a promised day of rest from Almighty God. Hebrews 4:1-10

@jsmittylife

Жыл бұрын

@@boldbeliever52 yea when 2 Peter 3:8 is used it is always taken out of context of the passage it is in. Where does the Bible say that the total time of the earth will be 7000 year? It doesn’t say that anywhere. It could be 7000 or any number God wants it to be,but nothing in the Bible tells you that totality of time will be 7000 year.s. The “millennium” is only mentioned in one place in a symbolic book and people have used that to based all other doctrine dismissing what is plainly taught by Jesus and the apostles. Jesus said he would raise us on the last day John 6:39,40,44,54. When is the last day? Paul teaches us in 1 Cor 15:54 that when the dead saints are raised and we are changed then the prophecy of Isa 25:8 will come to pass. That is the last enemy of Jesus which is death is swallowed up in victory. Paul directly ties the defeat of death to the resurrection of believers and when we are changed. So when do you see death defeated for good in the Bible? You answer those 2 questions and any view of the rapture as a doctrine falls apart. The “rapture” or catching up is simply an action that happens to believer at the 2nd advent and take place inside the resurrection of the dead. It is not this whole doctrine it has been made out to be. The doctrine that has been attached to it contradicts what Jesus and the apostles taught.

@handles617

Жыл бұрын

​@boldbeliever52 amillenialism does take it literally, they spiritualize the reign on earth and change the order of revelation 20 and put down the releasing of Satan as being thr same as revelation 12

I love the 17th century English writers like Shakespeare but then Cromwell took over and banned it.

Really, the examples given in this video are so laughable as to not even need debunking. And the fact that these books are held in any regard by any movement in the church - probably a huge majority, unfortunately - tells you all you need to know about the state of people's heads. We live in clown world

I'm with you in everything you say, but you did make a little mistake at 35:29 . You thought you were reading "pretribulational" but the word was "premillennial"... that's why you thought Watson was contradicting himself, but he wasn't (although he was still wrong all along)

FAI can debunk all it wants, but it was the Apostle Paul who introduced dispensationalism in his epistle.

@kenklein9228

Ай бұрын

??

Is the Trinity true? “Hear, O Yisra’ĕl: יהוה our Elohim, יהוה is one! Deḇarim (Deuteronomy) 6:4 “You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming to you.’ If you did love Me, you would have rejoiced that I said, ‘I am going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I. Yoḥanan (John) 14:28 Yeshua said these words, and lifted up His eyes to the heaven, and said, “Father, the hour has come. Esteem Your Son, so that Your Son also might esteem You, “And this is everlasting life, that they should know You, the only true Elohim, and Yeshua Messiah whom You have sent. Yoḥanan (John) 17:1‭, ‬3 Yeshua said to her, “Do not hold on to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father. But go to My brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My Elohim and your Elohim.’ ” Yoḥanan (John) 20:17 “He who overcomes, I shall make him a supporting post in the Dwelling Place of My Elohim, and he shall by no means go out. And I shall write on him the Name of My Elohim and the name of the city of My Elohim, the new Yerushalayim, which comes down out of the heaven from My Elohim, and My new Name. Ḥazon (Revelation) 3:12 And you belong to Messiah, and Messiah belongs to Elohim. Qorintiyim Aleph (1 Corinthians) 3:23 For even if there are so-called mighty ones, whether in heaven or on earth - as there are many mighty ones and many masters - for us there is one Elohim, the Father, from whom all came and for whom we live, and one Master YESHUA Messiah, through whom all came and through whom we live. Qorintiyim Aleph (1 Corinthians) 8:5‭-‬6 one Elohim and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Eph`siyim (Ephesians) 4:6

@handles617

Жыл бұрын

There are countless verses that directly place him as equivalent to God. The ones who want to demolish the trinity the most are Muslims.

There were 2 schools of thought back in the early church father's. Justin Martyr even acknowledges and records this in his 'Dialogue with Trypho' chapter 80 circa 150 AD "I admitted to you formerly, that I and many others are of this opinion (temporal 1000 year reign), and [believe] that such will take place, as you assuredly are aware; but, on the other hand, I signified to you that many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise." So there were church father's who believed this and there were church father's who didn't. All those church father's you mentioned did think on those lines but they also believed that it would occur after the resurrection and upon a new heaven and new earth. They did not believe it will happen on this sinful and wicked world but in the new one that God creates after the final judgment of human kind, where death and Hades are cast into the eternal lake of fire [Gehenna] and the righteous, the sheep that have been resurrected with their eternal bodies are given life everlasting with no more pain and sorrow and death and sin and despair, etc. If one reads the book of Barnabas circa 70 AD +, written not long after the destruction of Jerusalem. He believes that Christ is reigning now from the kingdom of Heaven. But he also believed that Christ would come and consummate the end of the world in the 6000 th year of the earth but, All the early church father's believed the Septuagint scriptures and how that there were 5 500 years had already past according to the recording of the geneology of the bible in Genesis chapter 5 and chapter 11 from Adam to Christ. According to the Septuagint, written circa 300 BC from Hebrew into Greek by 72 Hebrew scribes. Jesus and all the NT saints quoted from this version. According to the early church father's limited knowledge, they did not know that this world would continue for another 2000 years. The word 'chilia' is only mentioned 8 times in the NT: 6 X in Revelation 20 and 2 X 2 Peter 3 Strong's gives the word 'Chilia' as an undisclosed period of time or thousand. There is no 'A' or word 'ONE' in front or behind that Greek word in those 8 instances. Since, Acts 2 records that the last days began at Pentecost and Peter records that 'a day is as a thousand years' and we are in the last days, I equate this as the last days as being the last 2000 years. The kingdom of heaven is already in heaven, where Jesus Christ is already reigning from. If Jesus has not already begun His reign, then what has He been doing for the last 2000 years? Psalm 110:1 & Matthew 22:44 If people looked more to the spiritual side of God and His kingdom then things become clearer. 'My kingdom is not of this world.' John 18:36 "And when He was demanded from the Pharisees when the kingdom of God should come, He answered and said, the kingdom of God comes NOT with observation. Neither will they say lo here or low there of The kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21. These quotes from the LORD himself are very different to 1 Thessalonians 4:12-18 & 2 Peter 3 Please read these the scripture verses below and ask yourself these questions. Do these scriptures really teach us that Christ will have a physical reign over this earth from an earthly position among unrighteousness for a literal one thousand years? There is a reason why 'Ammilennial' view has been the dominant and taught view for 1800 years. We all also have freewill in Christ's Messianic reign, both good and bad exist together until the final day. "And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you." Matthew 28:18-20 Ephesians 1:21-23 1 Corinthians 15: 22-28 Daniel 7:13-14 Acts 7:54-60 Acts 3:20-21 John 6: 35-59 Romans 11:25 We [ALL believers] who so ever are Christ's sheep are the Israel of God. Messiah is the tree, we are the branches,: Jesus/ Yahshua is the SEED of Abraham in Galatians 3 and we by faith are Abraham's offspring in Christ/ Messiah. John 15:1-6 Hebrews 9:27 1 Timothy 1:17 John :12 Revelation 20: 11-15 Revelation 21: 1-8 1 Thessalonians 4:12-18 John 12:48 Revelation chapter 1 & 2 & 3 Psalm 7:9-12 & 146:10 & 47:8 & 145:13 Revelation 11:15 [this has already occurred in 70 AD by the inauguration of the reigning of the nations] taken from the earthly kingdom of Jerusalem because they once had the keys to the kingdom. The rider on the white horse is Jesus Christ. James 5:7 gives a huge acknowledgement for the position of Jesus' judgement upon Jerusalem 2000 years ago and the coming final judgment for this current world. "Who is worthy to open the seals?" Revelation 5:4. "The lamb slain from the foundation of the world:" Rev 13:8 The book is the 'Revelation of Jesus Christ' and can most assuredly be understood from circa 65 AD onward. There is much internal and external evidence for this position. There are many more scripture verses.

@bigtobacco1098

5 ай бұрын

The word TRINITY isn't in scripture either...

@RisenShine-zy7dn

5 ай бұрын

@@bigtobacco1098 You are correct the word 'Trinity is not in the bible. However, the 'Godhead' is and the 3 bearing witness in heaven is. Colossians 2:8-19 "Beware lest anyone spoil you through philosophy and vein deceit, after the traditions of humans, after the rudiments of the world and not after Christ. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. 1 John 5: 6-10 "This is He that came by water and blood, Jesus Christ. Not by water only but by water and blood and it is the Spirit that bears witness because the Spirit is truth. For there are three [3] that bear record in heaven. The Father the Word and the Holy Spirit and these three [3] are one [1]. John 1: 1 "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. Genesis 1:1-3 In the beginning, God, Spirit, Word. Genesis 1:26 "Let us make man/human in our image." "US" is more than one. If you have a different opinion and belief than what the Holy scriptures say then you do not know HIM.

@bigtobacco1098

5 ай бұрын

@RisenShine-zy7dn I'm a trinity supporter.. amil too... but I wasn't the one making the hermeneutic claim

I’ve read many of the early church fathers and they were dispensational and believed in a pre trib rapture. The question is not, did they write about a post trib rapture because pre tribers believe in a post trib rapture as well. The question is, did they also write about the pre trib rapture and the answer is yes they did. They wrote about the pre trib rapture, the tribulation saints who will face the antichrist and then Christ final coming after the trib. They didn’t call them tribulation saints in ancient times but they did write about them and finally about the last coming of Christ to set up the millennial kingdom and after the millennial kingdom the judgment. I’ve spent hours and hours reading them in context and they did in fact believe in a pre trib rapture. Read Irenaeus against heresies book 5 chapters 29-35. Extremely dispensational

Coming after the great tribulation: the return of Jesus Christ. Chapter is more to the elect (Israel) they are the chosen to evangelize in the tribulation period not the church. This is the second coming when Christ comes to reigns. To make things easy simply divide and use the tool of hermaneutic and distinguished the difference between 1 Corinthians 15 and Mathew 24. The concept of rapture got revealed later not before when apostle Paul came into the picture and that’s why he speaks about a mistery. So then what happened to Enoch, what happened in Mathew 27, rapture is real because there’s a lot of evidence of it in the Bible

The use of descriptive terms such as cultic, dangerous, and the like at the very beginning of the video shows the heart of the teacher. I wanted to watch the video, but his abusive language toward his fellow believers is hard to bear.

Some of these comments…smh

If you take out pre-trib mid-trip post-trib rapture and just look at dispensationalism as a way of or catagorising verses in the Bible based on two primary audiences the Jews on the Gentiles clearly there is a lot that was based entirely in the time of the Apostles and for the Jewish people. Gentiles I believe we have much to learn from them but I don't believe applies to us directly as gentiles. Two very simple examples have to do with being saved as discussed in the Old Testament where you were saved by faith and works and water baptism by water was for the forgiveness sin verses in the New Testament where it is based on grace through the blood atonement of Jesus alone. Or the entire story of Exodus which clearly applies to the Jewish people. However as far as Rapture is concerned I hope it's at least that we are part of the mid-trib. I know there's a very superficial comments I don't claim to know the Bible or other dark as you do. Please comment

👑Genesis 12:3 🇮🇱 Matthew 25 31-46👑 ✝️ Christians speak of scriptures as being this or that scripture as a salvation issue, here 👑 Jesus made this a salvation issue Himself in Matthew 25 31-46 🇮🇱 😊No teasing out scriptures or extrapolations needed, it's as plain as the Sun shine 😊 👑 Jesus made this a salvation issue in Matthew 25 31-46 🇮🇱 and before He returns I'd recommend ministering the same love ❤God bless you on your journey ❤

The belief in a pre wrath rapture of the Church is extremely reasonable, if viewing scripture from a dispensational hermeneutic, even if there were no historical evidence of this view. The view is derived from Scripture itself.

The rapture is included in the “Mystery” given to Paul from Jesus! The “Mystery” was hidden in God until it was revealed to the Apostle Paul. The Mystery is the Gospel of the Grace of God primarily for the Gentiles but will save all who believe. See Romans 16:25, 1st Corinthians 15:1-4, 51-52, 1st Thessalonians 4:13-17, Ephesians 3:9,

Check out the prophesy of our lady of Good success made in 1610. Specifically speaking about praying for the poor souls who would love in the later half of the 20th century. "Loss of modesty in women, bad morals, difficult to find innocence in children, few virginal souls, and the rule of antichrist by way of the masons" the masons didn't even exist at that time. The prophesy promises a compleat restoration of all good customs and an errand of peace.

@uncatila

9 ай бұрын

The Counter reformation Church compiled a lot of good arguments about the coming antichrist in Israel because so many reformers such as Luther suggested that the Antichrist was the Pope in Rome.

Denying Christ is reigning now, is just as bad. One chapter in one book just caused you to throw out the rest.

Cultic? You mean like believing TONGUES (speaking in foreign languages miraculously by the Holy Spirit) is still alive and in the body of Christ today, as well as all the other spiritual gifts that occurred at Pentecost? Yeah, nobody speaks in "tongues" today, it ceased, but Joel Richardson still pushes that false doctrine. Avoid anyone who believes tongues and the spiritual gifts are still alive, and didn't cease as the Apostle Paul stated they would, and did. Anyone who believes tongues is still around, can't be trusted with rightly dividing the word of truth, period.

Posttribulationism and futuristic dispensationalism share many common errors. Historic premillennialism is also flawed along many of same lines as pre and post trib.

I definitely disagree with you on many points sir , but we both see eye to eye that Dispensationalism is in line for destruction by the Lord.

It's like neegan became a pastor.

70 sevens are determined. 490 years, that's it, no more. The language is clear and simple. How in the world do you get more than 490 years from what is stated in Daniel 9:24? This video is very solid, but it really surprises me you have enough discernment to see through dispensationalism, yet you believe their nonsense about adding more years to Daniel's 70 7s. What was not accomplished that was laid out in 9:24?

The 10kings ...are gonna put the Church toFlight ..on a 747?!)) GodBlessU Joel and your family...the subtxt of Mat24:31 is sending to 1Cor15:52 and 1Tes4:16 .....and 1Tes4:16 subtxt is sending back to Ma24:31 ....talk about the same coming. One coming, one gathering, one resurection.

This world will be destroyed

I hope Messiah will crush unbiblical doctrine of "church" before His coming. What you call "church" the original Scripture and early Reformation Bibles call Congregation of Israel. WE ARE THE DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM, SONS OF YAHUAH i.e. Israel of Yah.

There was no ancient church❗🤣 Apostles called it RESTORED Israel of Yah. Jam 1:1: "James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes in the Dispersion: Greeting." Exo 4:22-23: "You are to say to Pharaoh, «This is what the Lord says: "Israel is my firstborn son. And I say to you, «Let my son go so he may serve me.'If you refuse to let him go, then I will kill your firstborn son."»"" Gal 6:15-16: "For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. Peace and mercy be upon all who walk by this rule, upon the Israel of God." Gal 3:26,29: "for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. … And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise." Acts 15:14-17: "Simeon has explained how God first showed his concern for the gentiles by taking from among them a people for his name. This agrees with the words of the prophets. As it is written, "After this, I will come back and set up David's fallen tent again. I will restore its ruined places and set it up again so that the rest of the people may search for the Lord, including all the gentiles who are called by my name,'declares the Lord. «He is the one who has been doing these things"

You keep on repeating "no evidence of pretrib rapture before tribulatiom"..., what ABOUT THAT SPECIFIC EVENT [BIBLICAL FACT] OF ENOCH 'TAKEN' UP BEFORE THE FLOOD (even if just as a preview concept)?

@handles617

Жыл бұрын

Sure, simply provide proof that we will be mass taken before the 7 years. Just show the verses.

Sorry but amillenialism is correct , we don't reject a literal interpretation of the bible. I'll debate you any day. Answer me this, if the millennium is literal , will people live for a thousand years or will they be able to die ? Btw , Victorinus was amill, the little season he is referring to is the loosening of Satan, in other words the millennium would have to be now.

Jesus isnt returning to save anyone folks. He wanted us to save ourselves through his teachings to raise our consciousness and create heaven here on earth. Thinking hes coming back to save you and take you to some magical kingdom is lazy and being a cop-out. Do the discernment yourselves. ❤️‍🔥

Terribly repetitive and short on substance . After 30 minutes still nothing that debunks except to say he disagrees. Tedious and decided my time was better spent elsewhere.

saying "Dispensationalism" isnt really pointing to one thing. If you are referring to Ephesians 3, then Dispensationalism is FACTUAL and YOU ARE A HERETIC for disagreeing with EPHESIANS 3

@kenklein9228

8 ай бұрын

He doesn't disagree with the fact that there are "dispensations", but he asserts that Dispensationalism gives dispensations a meaning that they don't have. Dispensationalism is a perversion of scripture.

@mdsmithson

8 ай бұрын

@@kenklein9228 Saying Dispensationalism is a perversion of scripture is like saying Protestantism or Catholicism is a perversion of scripture. Its not a specific of enough of a claim. Catholics and Protestants have their own fair share of heretical traditions and doctrines especially when mixed. Understanding the Bible according to the dispensation of the grace of God bestowed to the world through the apostle to the gentiles appointed Acts 9 by the ascended Lord Jesus to Paul for us ward is what is means to dispensationally and rightfully understand progressive revelation. Its what it means to understand the revelation of the mystery Eph3 and to be apart of the fellowship of the mystery which is the understand of the true gospel in 1Cor15:1-4. The gospel is not just having faith in Abraham being the future blessing to all nations; that is not the good news for us today. The good news for us today is that Jesus Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again. Denying that dispensation of truth is HERESY! DAMNABLE HERESY!

@kenklein9228

8 ай бұрын

@@mdsmithson "The good news for us today is that Jesus Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again." Yep. And Christ taught His disciples this very gospel. This is something that dispensationalists just don't seem to grasp. Christ, Paul, James, John, etc, all taught the same gospel. Denying this puts Christians at risk.

@mdsmithson

8 ай бұрын

@@kenklein9228 Nowhere in James will you find the gospel of grace ,the shed blood of Christ. That's obvious if you read James. Go ahead read it yourself and see. Jesus did not teach the death burial and resurrection to save Gentiles and Jews alike BY Faith alone without works into the Body of Christ by the blood of Christ, that was a Mystery revealed. Jesus did say in the Institution of the Lord's Supper Mat 26:26-Mat 26:28 "For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins." Yet they did not understand purpose and the mystery of the gospel fully revealed. Which is the literal chapter heading to Ephesians 3 "The Mystery of the Gospel revealed". It's called progressive revelation for a reason. Also; You fail to realize that the new testament is not in force till the death of the testator. Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. Peter taught from Prophecy. Paul taught from the Revelation of Mystery given to him from Jesus Christ. Peter knew Jesus in the flesh. Jesus being a minister of the circumcision in His earthly ministry. Paul did not know Jesus after the flesh. Further more, Jesus needed to rise from the dead and ascended to heaven to finally reveal the purpose and the mystery of the gospel to Paul. In order to teach Christ crucified rightly you must be teaching it according to the revelation of the mystery taught to Paul for usward from the ascended Lord Jesus Christ. Ignoring progressive revelation is the great sloppy stumbling block of the catholic and reformed traditions alike; thinking they can cherry pick the Bible and knit together doctrines, mix together law and grace doctrines, where they see fit, just go watch some sermons and take good notes on the parable of the 10 virgins and see how sad it is for Reformed and Baptists alike to identify what exactly the oil is in the lamp; see how they try and apply that to the Body of Christ because they cant rightly divide. Watch MacArthur incompetently tell people in his exposition of Matthew 7:23 that if you are not walking in the narrow path and carrying your cross then you have no saving faith. If you cant see it, then you are blinded to the true gospel as I was for many years; with MUD(mixed up doctrine) over my eyes. Read the Bible canonically that's a start, then chronologically read it, then with progressive revelation understood according to the Revelation of the Mystery Ephesians 3 and you will know How Jesus wants the gospel understood by the Body of Christ; until then you will be confused.

There is indeed historical evidence that supports the beginnings of dispensational thought that predate J. N. Darby by as much as 1700 years. No, not a fully systematized doctrine,but there existed components of it nonetheless. To decry dispensationalism as heretical based on your view which in fact, is also debatable is intellectually dishonest. Not to mention the apparent vitriol with which you decry it. I’m in no way accusing you of not being a believer but, you certainly defend your view vehemently. So much so, that it may in fact borderline on arrogance. We should all strive to steer clear of attitudes of superiority.

I Hate false Doctrines

Seriously flawed strawman presentation by someone who does this over and over again. Hey there, "Joel", very hard to debunk actual historical documents which state these things.

There's no Bible Verses that show the church/bride in the thousand year reign of Jesus There's no Bible Verses that promise the thousand year reign of Jesus to the church Pray for the saints that overcome the Mark of the beast They are promised white robes Revelation 7 14 They are promised the thousand year reign of Jesus Revelation 20 4 Jesus is Truth Keep the Faith

All of this is a result of Calivn's idea of sola scriptura.

@kenklein9228

Ай бұрын

Luther was first. And both of them were 100% right in that.

the OT stories are full of pre-trib rapture typologies.

@theozarktrekker

Жыл бұрын

Do you mean The Exodus, Noah's Flood, Sodom & Gomorrah, Isaiah 26-27 etc...? I used to believe that pre-trib was illustrated in these accounts also, mostly because it was drilled into us in my denominational upbringing. Believed it and taught it for years but eventually actually dug in and studied without the presuppositions(as best I could) and realized how wrong it was and is. Not just wrong but dangerous. 🙏

@ruthmayforth5933

Жыл бұрын

There are Catholics who would claim that the OT stories have Marian typologies too.

@jsmittylife

Жыл бұрын

When you acknowledge that any talk of the rapture involves the resurrection of the dead, then you must first seek to understand what the word of God teaches about the resurrection of the dead through the teaching of Jesus and his apostles before you can affirm the rapture. And when you do that, not only does the pretribulation rapture fall apart, the rapture itself falls apart.

@JoelRichardson

Жыл бұрын

Actually its filled with post-trib types.

@boldbeliever52

Жыл бұрын

​@theozarktrekker you should go back to what you first believed. Pre trib is so so biblical.

This is misguided preaching for sure.

@bibeltroskap9989

8 ай бұрын

There are two different raptures in the Bible. The first rapture was well known among the Jews even in the Old Testament. The Lord Jesus explains Matt 24 for us, by first explaining Matt 13. He talked about the tares and the wheat. The tares are the the children of the wicked one. The good seed (wheat) are the children of the kingdom. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all that offend . . . . And in verse 30 we have the order: Gather ye together FIRST the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn (1000 yr kingdom). In Matt 24:40 we see this further explained: Then shall two be in the field, the one shall be taken (Tares), and the other (the wheat) left. (to go in to the 1000 yr kingdom. This describes the rapture of the ungodly. This rapture was known in the OT. Prov 2:21-22 "For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it. But the wicked shall be cut of from the earth and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it. The other rapture, the rapture of the church, was only taught by the apostle Paul in 1 Thes 4:13-18 and 1 Cor 15:51-52. The Lord Jesus did only speak about the church as something he would create in the future. "And on this rock (talking about himself) I will (future) build My church. Joh Ch 14 is not talking about the rapture. Some believe the Lord is preparing a place for us now, and when He is done, he will come back to get us to heaven. That is not what He is saying. He is already done preparing av place for us. He created the world and everything in 6 days, He don't need 2000 yrs to prepare a place for us. It was prepared when He died for us. And after he died, His Spirit came back to receive us unto himself. That is what the Bible teach in John ch 14. vers 23 If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and WE will come to him and make OUR home with him. After He rose, he came in the Spirit, to take us to him, so that we should be were He is (verse 3) Seated in the heavenly ( Eph 2:6) "I will not leave you orphans, I WILL COME TO YOU" vers 18 And he did. Without the prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27 we would have been in the dark, regarding the coming tribulation period. But we see that there are one "Sevens" left. The first 3,5 yrs clearly correspond with what the Lord talk about as the "beginning of sorrows (the birth pangs, because the earth is going to be regenerated for the kingdom Matt 19:24) The seven churches in Rev ch 2 and 3 is a prophecy with at least three different "layers". The first is the natural, being the seven churches that existed when John lived. The next is the church age, and we now live in the Philadelpia age, which is soon to be overlapped by the Laodicea, which is the harlot church. To the church in Philidepphia, it says: "Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth." The hour of trial is synonym with the day of vengeance (Is 61). Whom are the Lord going to take vengeance on? It is the ungodly. "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" 2 Thes 1:8 There are two kind of wrath or tribulation. One that we, as believers have to go through because we as the children of God. We go through persecution in this world. " and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God." Acts 14:22 These tribulations has been inflicted on us by humans. But there is another wrath to come on this earth, not against His own body, but against the evil ones: "Go and pour out on the earth the seven bowls of the wrath of God.” Rev 16:1 The Lord Jesus is the head. We are His body. He don't plan to harm himself. "For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; [10] And to WAIT FOR HIS SON from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which DELIVERED us from the wrath to come" 1 Thes 1:9-10 We are not waiting for Anti-Christ to appear in the middle of the trib. We are waiting to be caught up in clouds to meet the Lord in the air. 1 Thes 4:13-18. Paul does not mention that the Lord is coming down to the earth here in these verses. This was a mystery, not mentioned in the gospels, and not known in the OT. While the Lords coming mentioned in Matt 24, after the Trib, was foreknown in the OT as the Day of the Lord - a scary day. "Woe to you who desire the day of the Lord! For what good is the day of the Lord to you? It will be darkness, and not light" Amos 5:18 When we read the book of Mathew about the chosen one, don't think that we, the Church are the only chosen one. God has a future plan for Israel. He sent out the 12 to preach the gospel of the kingdom, and He prophesied and said that they would not be done with the preaching before the Son of man comes Matt 10:23 The apostles who were commended to this task have all passed away. In the Trib, this prophecy will probably be fulfilled by 12000 of each of the 12 tribes of Israel. These are the first fruit of the Israel who is going to be saved. They will travel the world and preach the gospel of the Kingdom - The good news about the coming Kingdom. And when that preaching is done, then comes the end of this age, and a new period is beginning, the 1000 yr kingdom. There will be a sheep and got judgment at this time, where the gentiles will be judged according to how they received the traveling Israeli preachers, the least of His brothers. Matt 25:31-46. This is not the first judgment, because the the judgment of the believers comes first. "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" 1 Pet 4:17 This is a judgment, not to select who will be saved or not, but to test our work, and to suffer loss of reward, or to receive a reward. The final judgment of all the ungodly comes after the 1000 yr kingdom, before the Great white throne. Rev Ch 20. Was some of this new to you? Cut, paste and save, and pray over it. May the Lord bless you as you seek the truth regarding the coming of the Lord. Amen Source: bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/The-Coming-Day-Of-God~s-Wrath

There is more than just the pre-trib debate that is affected by dispensationalism: it is the whole understanding of covenant theology, what the covenants and particularly what the renewed covenant with many is (and thus what all of this means when we look at Israel, Jerusalem, the seed of Abraham, prophecy and current events). Darby was booted out of the Presbyterian movement for his theology. Wonder why? Because it was radical and was simply his own theory. The Plymouth movement he was part of was to be a movement of God without pastor or leader or connection to church denomination. If we consider this for a modicum of a moment we realise Darby was annoyed with church leaders for disagreeing with him and fro being booted out. He wanted a podium to express his ideas but they were rejected so the Plymouth movement structure provided him the freedom to continue to express his theories. And so it grew. Sounds like leaders of Mormonism and others right?