I think Heathcliff would be justified in his revenge if he took his revenge upon those who actually wronged him, like Hindley. The thing is he takes his hatred and casts it upon every living person around him, innocent people that never did him wrong. That's where he turns from a victim to a villain, quite literally a monster. And then you begin to hate him and want him to be punished for being so nasty, and you want him to go to jail or or something, but at the same time you just want him to be with his beloved Cathy, just because the book instills in us that Heathcliff+Cathy is a force beyond all earthly things. It's mind boggling what this book does to you head and your emotions. It tampers with our good judgement, its some kind of witchcraft idk

I don't think there ever has or there ever will be any novel more powerful and haunting than this!

Wuthering Heights is so unusual that I feel like it's difficult to rank it with the other Bronte books, as you have done. I've binged on your Bronte videos, because I was looking for comments on Shirley - so yesterday I watched your older and more recent rankings of the Bronte books, and I also found Spinster's Library's videos - she really doesn't like WH. I've read it several times, and I still have trouble saying that I "like" it. The first time I read it, I remember that I got the uplift from the final lines "who can imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth." But then I realised that that tag is a conventional gloss put on these people who are beyond him by Lockwood, whose conventional piety means that he cannot understand these people whose story he has just told us - so taking solace from that line is to miss the point like he does. Wuthering Heights feels to me like something natural - a mountain, or a landscape - which has to be how it is. So it feels like comparing it with a more conventional novel, even the ones by her sisters, again would be somehow missing the point - it's somehow on a different dimension so that trying to put it on a list with "The Professor" or "Jane Eyre" feels wrong - on what basis would I say that it is "better" or "worse" than Villette ? I don't enjoy it the same way I enjoy Jane Eyre, and if I was pushed for an answer I'd say I prefer reading Jane Eyre - but if you asked me which one was better I might say Wuthering Heights because it feels like something you can never get to the bottom of.

Whoa whoa i thought of telling Katie that it's been a while since we got a video ft Nick, and now we finally get it AND on a discussion of one of my fav classics of all time ?!?! Day = made

@katiejlumsden

Жыл бұрын

Ha thanks :D

@4thlinemaniac356

Жыл бұрын

I recommend the Bronte vs Austen debate @ Intelligence Squared channel with Live scenes played with real actors.Enjoy you will gain new perspectives.

When I was at uni doing my Eng Lit degree it was planted in my head by a friend I think that Cathy & Heathcliff are actually half siblings, so since then I’ve definitely become one of the theorists that believe Heathcliff is the mixed race illegitimate son of Mr Earnshaw. Perhaps Mr Earnshaw had genuine feelings for his lover but it could never be in the society of the time, somewhat mirroring Cathy and Heathcliff’s relationship in the future. I feel like this would make sense too as generational trauma seems to be a big theme in the novel, there’s just a constant cycle of heartbreak and loss amongst these families. Even if I’m totally wrong, as I may well be, it’s fun to speculate about all the possible stories that Nelly is unaware of or completely omits in her retelling to Mr Lockwood! So ultimately I think Cathy and Heathcliff are essentially cursed by their unnatural love for each other from the beginning, the only way they are able to be together is sort of ‘supernaturally’ after death. It’s a really fascinating novel, I can’t say I love it or even that i’d read it again, but certainly there’s loads to sink your teeth into with this book and I really enjoyed hearing both of your thoughts on it!

Thank you so much for having this discussion with your husband. It's great to hear both of your thoughts on this book. I read WH for the first time in Nov 2022. I wasn't sure how I felt about it. I was grappling with the awfulness of the characters, the violence, and abuse (to children, adults, and animals) throughout the whole story. That violence distracted me from the other subjects touched by this book. I think your right that the story is multilayered and can be interpreted many ways. You have given me a better appreciation for the book, and I'll reread it in an attempt to get past the initial "shock value" to get at the real story.

@DylanQuintero-ng1sy

29 күн бұрын

your a pussy how do you get distracted by fictional violence, get a pair and just read the book with out acting like its happening in front of you

Just wanted to say I think your channel is an absolute treasure. I read the novel many years ago in my teens. You’ve inspired me to give it a re-read. Thank you for your great videos.

Both of you are SO well-spoken. I cannot stress this enough.

Such a great discussion! It enriched the book for me even more. I can’t wait to reread it in the future.

Forever my favourite book of all time 🖤🖤🖤 hauntingly beautiful

I read it for the first time this year, and it was not at all what I expected. I kept waiting for the Victorian love story, and instead got chaos and mayhem! Hard to look away, hard to read some of it. I really enjoyed it.

@gerrygunn5109

Жыл бұрын

Big disappointment, I kept expecting it to get better, and it never did.

It's always a treat when Nick joins in! 📚 Wuthering Heights is a book that was nothing like I expected and while I didn't like it the first time I read it, I couldn't get enough of it when I re-read it! 🤓 Well, I _say_ I didn't like it the first time - but I thought about it for months afterwards. 😬 Thank you so much for this wonderful discussion.

What a wonderful coincidence as I have just finished reading Wuthering Heights. This is a powerful book that really makes you think and reflect on the relationships in your own life. I like it more than Jane Eyre, which is a bit too much of a fairy tale for me. Heathcliff is one of the most fascinating characters in all literature. Emily Bronte's prose is a delight to read, and the book is a masterpiece of tight writing. Every single passage is impactful. Every single page in my copy has underlinings and annotations. A wonderful October read. I think we should all be reminded of the Heathcliff that lurks in all of us...

@katiejlumsden

Жыл бұрын

Heathcliff really is fascinating!

I am surprised that Nick finds it nearly his favourite Victorian novel love the videos of you both love your family friend John ❤❤❤

I just finished the book for the first time via audiobook. Now I must physically read it because you helped me see how much I missed by listening while multitasking. You uncovered so many layers! Religion, narrator bias, taboo insinuations, supernatural or psychological, etc. Well done! I love hearing you both give your perspectives. Thank you! I’m off for my re-read!

I read this book for the second time a couple of weeks ago. I’m 49 and put it off for decades because for some reason I felt intimidated by it. It also seemed like people either loved it or hated it and I was worried I’d hate it. But the first time I read it in 2020, I was blown away! I thought it was so interesting and so accessible. The story was just so brilliant! I only gave it 4* both times because, well, I know a 5* when I read it and there’s no denying it. However, this is the book I think about all the time. This is the book I want to reread every couple of years..so maybe I need to bump it up to a 5*. It’s endlessly fascinating and more and more can be gleaned each subsequent read.

Loved this discussion - I’ll have to come back to it the next time that I re-read Wuthering Heights. The bit about Nelly murdering Cathy made me laugh! I definitely read it mainly rationally as well, but I think next time I read it I’m going to intentionally read it supernaturally and see. Absolutely loved the discussion on Cathy possessing Heathcliff. My character I hated the most was Linton, though I know that’s a bit unfair, but Cathy senior was definitely a piece of work! That’s so interesting that it was originally set in Gondol - makes sense! Thanks to ye both for the great discussion.

@katiejlumsden

Жыл бұрын

Thanks, Lisa! I find Linton very infuriating too.

When I finished wuthering Heights, I wasn't immediately sure whether I loved it or not, but I definitely fell into the love-it camp and it is one of my favourite Victorian novels

So happy to see Nick again! The two of you are so lovely together. (I wish my husband read!) I’m rereading WH now, after buying a beautiful copy, so I was excited to see this, and it’ll deepen my reading. I’d never thought of Lockwood and Nellie as the reason behind the novel’s mythic feel, and I love that idea. After hearing your thoughts, I’m now wondering if Bronte’s disparagement of the strict tenets of faith are meant to play against our own thoughts on the evil seeming characters here, knowing readers will feel that same judgment, and the gradual redemption through the next generation. This really is is one of my favorites too, it just pulls you through and is so hard to put down.

@katiejlumsden

Жыл бұрын

Thanks very much!

I've only read Wuthering Heights once but I did love it. I only watched the first 15 minutes of this video because you've made me want to re-read the book again and also reminded me how many of the details I'd forgotten. I really enjoy the videos with Nick and will watch this one in full as soon as I've read the book again.

I was wondering what Nick was reading for Victober?! Wonderful discussion, thank you. When I start to feel soft about WH I remember the puppy.

Wuthering heights is a great book.

Fantastic in-depth discussion - it has plunged me into so many thoughts about this book. I see Heathcliff as representing the wider world. He comes from Liverpool which was the largest port in the world and could therefore be anyone from anywhere. He arrives unformed - innocent because he is a child but also wild as a force of nature. He is gradually destroyed by the undercurrent of cruelty in the artifice of class and convention of those around him. The redemption is, as you say, by his recognition of his and Cathy's own irredeemably lost souls and making way for their innocent doubles to potentially live better lives. The religion in Wuthering Heights is loud in its absence. Everyone has turned their backs on salvation. There is a Narnian - always winter never Christmas - quality to the Moors.

@kahkah1986

Жыл бұрын

Very Frankenstein-like to me, he doesn't have to be a monster, they make him into one. I think it is interesting to think what books the Brontes could have got their hands on, actually; like if they were poorer, it is as if they are a generation behind and are responding to the cheaper/ 2nd hand Romantic classics rather than the contemporary Victorian stuff, but with a Victorian awareness of the past Romantic era historically. I think Cathy 1 is getting her religion from the Enlightenment, or at least Romantic Victorian Emily's understanding of what the Enlightenment stood for, scary free-thinking selfishness that is very seductive bc it is all about getting what you want, like the Quakers listening to their inner voice, but by this point people are more aware of what might happen if your inner voice goes bad.

@katiejlumsden

Жыл бұрын

The connection to Frankenstein is one I hadn't thought of but can totally see. I wonder if Emily had read it!

@4thlinemaniac356

Жыл бұрын

@Intelligence Squared channel there is a Bronte vs Austen debate with famous Actors doing scenes Gives a wonderful new perspective about the Author plus the story setting.

I was about to say that it's a good day to watch a video about Wuthering Heights, but honestly everyday is a good day to watch a video about Wuthering Heights 😂 I enjoyed every second of this! You & Nick always have something new and unique to bring to the table :D More of these discussions please 🙌🏼

@katiejlumsden

Жыл бұрын

Thanks :)

That was such a treat listening to you two talking about Wuthering Heights! I thoroughly enjoyed it and will now have to have a reread of the book soon.

I read WH years ago and loved it. Want to read it again though. Bronte sisters are great authors anyway!!!🥰

This was a great vid - more than I could have asked for out of a discussion of Wuthering heights!

And this was a great discussion, thank you!

One of my top-5 as well. I’m so happy that you reviewed this novel. ❤

Loved this! Thank you! ^_^ 💗

Thank you for the most interesting and thorough discussion of this incredible book. After listening to your perspectives, I will be rereading this novel. Well done👏🏻

Wonderful discussion! It made me want to reread it asap 😄

Utterly great, in-depth discussion, really enjoyed the points Nick was making. Thanks to you both.

great conversation,thankyou

Fantastic! I love Wuthering Heights and this was an A+ review.

Superb discussion. I only read Wuthering Heights for the first time earlier this year and I need to read it again soon! I love how you and Nick discuss together. You just glow on screen with him!

Wuthering Heights was my first classic book read outside of school and at the time I hated it. This video would have been great to view right after reading. I might have to read it again now:) Great seeing you both in a video!

This was great. Anyone studying Wuthering Heights (as I did for O Level) would benefit greatly from this video. Also... just a great booking conversation!

Congrats on the marriage guys❤️💕

Yay our yearly Victober Nick video! I love the discussions you 2 have with classics! I'm really looking forward to rereading Wuthering Heights next year, now that I understand more about it and that it is not a love story as it was previously marketed to me when I was a teenager. Nick always has very poignant and insightful ways of looking at these books that it's a joy to listen to!

@katiejlumsden

Жыл бұрын

Thanks! It's definitely not really a love story. Such a wonderful book. I recommend a reread as it's so deep and strange that it's interesting to return to.

I really enjoyed your very nuanced discussion of this book, thank you very much! I read it about 15 years or so ago for the one and only time and only remember that I very passionately *loathed* each and every character in the book, including the smug, superior narrator, but I very much enjoyed the writing style itself. It always shocks me when anyone claims it is a love story or a great romance, when it is so cruel and awful. It is certainly about posessiveness and obsession, but never about love.

@katiejlumsden

Жыл бұрын

Thanks! It is definitely more a good about obsession, or about like the dangers of corrupt love, more than it is a love story.

I really need to reread WH as I think I was 14 the last time I read it!!

Another fantastic review from both of you! Does Nick have his own channel? I'd definitely watch it if he did, his views and his humour are so entertaining. Agree totally with your review of WH, really good video, thanks to both, you've made me want to reread WH. ❤️

@katiejlumsden

Жыл бұрын

No, Nick's just a visitor on my channel. Glad you enjoyed the video!

Great video! Read Wuthering Heights about 2 years ago and loved it. Being a literary dumb-dumb and having a social science degree, I mainly read it as a novel about Brontë perceived class and status relations in England - how the two families are of different "stations", how the lower class characters are the more fervently religious, the linguistic dialects some characters have (had to resort to the footnotes to understand the Georgie transliteration lol). The mirroring of generations, the schemes, revenge, and trauma that goes one through out the years was very interesting. The edition I read even split the book in two parts so it was particularly emphasized in my experience. The last generation in the book was the one i simpathized the most with. Not particularly nice, but had the least blame. I have always been surprised by the reading that the novel/Ms. Nelly as a unreliable narrative. I swang in the complete opposite direction and thought Brontë was making a commentary and very smart choice about the type of person/station/class positions that would have the knowledge to be able, however flawed, to weave a story like this one between so many ppl and families, and generations. When I watched videos and saw ppl jump to unreliable narrative readings my first though, mainly jokingly was "wow, classist much, you just thinking poor ppl are too dumb to put all this together don't you?" (Please don't take that as a criticism! I just think there is a viable reading in the opposite direction).

@katiejlumsden

Жыл бұрын

As we said, Nelly's definitely cleverer than all the upper class characters. It's more I think that the story is not about her but being told by her (so she can tell us what she observes of characters' feelings, etc, but not what they actually feel, or how they behave when alone or alone with others but not her), and we know Lockwood is possibly tweaking her narrative, which gives us that extra layer of unreliability.

I really enjoyed Wuthering Heights but it’s definitely a book about revenge…I so had thought it was a real romance before I read it and was surprised at how horrible many of the characters were which I truthfully had not expected. It is well written and I loved the atmosphere of the moors. Venom is a great description Nick….absolutely!

Maybe unpopular opinion, but I don't think Cathy loved Heathcliff back. She missed being the wild and free child before becoming this respectable woman, and Heathcliff enabled her behavior when they were young; she ties him to her happier past. At one point she specifically says "That is not my Heathcliff. I shall love mine yet; and take him with me: he's in my soul." in respects to child Heathcliff. When she dies she doesn't dream of him alone, but of "pleasant early days". I think to Cathy, Heathcliff was just her favorite toy, and she was just nostalgic after the days when she could do whatever she wanted. I don't believe she thought more of him.

@katiejlumsden

Жыл бұрын

Such an interesting thought! I think she loves him in her way, but her way is very odd, and her love for him is sort of bound up in her missing her freer, wilder days with him.

Patty- I have had difficulty reading this book. Tried 3x and 3x I get halfway through it. But after listening to other experiences reading thus book, I feel I can give it another go. Thank you fir the thoughtful discussion.

@4thlinemaniac356

Жыл бұрын

Prefatory Matters @ Intelligence Squared channel the Bronte vs Austen debate with Live scenes with famous Actors.

I read "Wuthering Heights" for the first time last year and I definitely hated it in an interesting way. 😆I`m not planning to reread it - like never ever!!! But at the same time I can`t deny it is a fascinating book. I don`t regret reading it, because I really enjoy listening to different booktubers discuss the story and themes and having read the book obviously allows me to understand everything better and in some way even join in the conversation. I don`t think I`ve heard two opinions of the book that would be exactly the same. Which in and of itself is a testament to how multilayered the it is. You also brought up many new interpretations that I hadn`t thought of. Thank you for the interesting conversation! 🙂

@katiejlumsden

Жыл бұрын

Ha it is definitely one to hate in an interesting way! I love it so much, but I always understand why people don't like it. It's just so strange.

loved hearing nicks thoughts on wuthering heights! i hated it when i read it in school and 2 decades later reread it i liked it alot more. The Characters are absolutely deplorable in the best way possible

I am 13 minutes in, and this is already my favorite video on Wuthering Heights on KZread. And I have watched every video on Wuthering Heights, it is my favorite book. Great analysis. Edit: 26:00 Cathy’s corpse not decaying might be related to her being buried in peat. The book explicitly tells in Chapter 3 that “peaty moisture is said to answer all the purposes of embalming on the few corpses deposited there”. This is one of the clever little details in Wuthering Heights. It can be supernatural or a hallucination too of course, but I like the idea of Catherine Earnshaw as a bog body. Really enjoying all the analysis! It is great! (Especially Heathcliff beating the respectable characters through their own ways instead of just burning their houses is perhaps my favorite thing about the book!) Edit after finishing the whole video: This was excellent! Only thing that I would disagree with is the theory that Catherine Earnshaw’s ghost is directing Heathcliff’s revenge. Alive, Cathy didn’t want Heathcliff to physically hurt Hindley and Isabella, and the lapwing episode (related just while Heathcliff is convincing Isabella to run away) is symbolically all about Catherine not liking Heathcliff hurting others: ““And here is a moor-cock’s; and this-I should know it among a thousand-it’s a lapwing’s. Bonny bird; wheeling over our heads in the middle of the moor. It wanted to get to its nest, for the clouds had touched the swells, and it felt rain coming. This feather was picked up from the heath, the bird was not shot: we saw its nest in the winter, full of little skeletons. Heathcliff set a trap over it, and the old ones dare not come. I made him promise he’d never shoot a lapwing after that, and he didn’t. Yes, here are more! Did he shoot my lapwings, Nelly? Are they red, any of them! Let me look.”” I think the ghost is mostly indifferent to Heathcliff’s revenge. Maybe as John Sutherland theorized in his book “Can Jane Eyre Be Happy?”, Cathy’s ghost only intervenes when Heathcliff is directly going to ruin Cathy 2 and Hareton’s happiness. Or maybe there isn’t a supernatural element at all. Or, Nick is right, and Cathy’s ghost is vengeful, because the ghost is stuck at the age of 12 and is angry at the world. The greatness of Wuthering Heights partially derives from its openness to interpretation! I loved this video, and probably will watch it many times.

@katiejlumsden

Жыл бұрын

Thanks very much! I definitely think of it as Heathcliff's revenge more than Cathy and favour the more rational explanation, but it's so interesting to ponder. Sounds like I ought to read Can Jane Eyre Be Happy?

@faintingheroine

Жыл бұрын

@@katiejlumsden “Can Jane Eyre Be Happy” is all about speculating on puzzling aspects of various classic British novels so as a person who (unlike me) read most of them you would get more out of it! It is fun.

@4thlinemaniac356

Жыл бұрын

So Very wrong Cathy is dying in childbirth. There is a great debate Bronte vs Austen @ Intelligence Squared channel with Live scenes with famous Actors which focusses on both the Author plus the Setting for wonderful perspective.

@4thlinemaniac356

Жыл бұрын

​@@katiejlumsdenBefore You do that View the Bronte vs Austen debate @ Intelligence Squared channel You are both too young imo to understand this novel fully though You are both well Read.Also I recommend If You Can See Me Now by Peter Straub before Ghost Story.

Going to re read this before watching the rest of this video

Nick's insights made me feel like we read two different novels, and now he has me wanting to read the book again to watch for Cathy being the villain. And as, like you, I read it in a rational way, I missed much of the supernatural interpretations. I agree with you that this is a tale of revenge. What crosses my mind when someone calls it a love story is they must have been subjected to the sort of dysfunction that requires the services of a professional therapist to sort out. And where others have seen the story as ultimately being one of redemption, my own take is it's a story of an "original sin", the consequences of which will continue down through the generations. It even had me wondering what long forgotten traumas or disappointments may still be influencing my own life & that of those around me. On the theme of an original sin, it hadn't occurred to me Heathcliff might have been the half-brother of Cathy. So now I'm wondering if perhaps this was the actual reason Cathy & Heathcliff didn't end up marrying, with Heathcliff's appearance & social status being a convenient excuse. Perhaps we should be looking back another generation for the "villain", and how the weakness of one man can have devastating consequences. Maybe that's where the moral of the story lies?

@katiejlumsden

Жыл бұрын

I know, I think I too have always read it in a rational way and enjoyed Nick's supernatural interpretation. I think it's so interesting as a tale of revenge. Your idea of the book exploring sin and its consequences is interesting.

I could talk about Wuthering Heights all day everyday... If someone can give me an indication of a book that comes close to the intenseness and haunting-ness of Wuthering Heights, please do!

@katiejlumsden

Жыл бұрын

Have you read Frankenstein? I feel like the atmosphere is maybe a bit similar.

@jessica-fcm

Жыл бұрын

@@katiejlumsden Oooh, i'm putting it on my list right this instant!! Thanks Katie 🤩

@plantbasedontheprairie

Жыл бұрын

Ethan Frome has a similar feel to it and it impacted me just as much as Wuthering Heights.

I think Kathy kinda sums it up when she says what ever are souls or bad of he and I are the same we are the same person And she talk about how they love is like the rocks under the ferns They love is like the rocks so despite everything they will love each other but the resone they could never be together is that they are selfish they want what they want that is why Kathy doesn’t marry him in a way it was selfish because she could or would not lower herself Idk if this makes any sense at all

@charlottejones4166

5 ай бұрын

And maybe that why they could never be together And only in death they could because when they are dead and ghost they do not have the practically to think about

Is Heathcliffe's caractor 'nature or nuture', or lack of?

I MUST BE THE REASON WHY

What I find interesting (but a bit maddening) in the book is that Emily leaves a lot for the imagination and doesn't plainly show us some stuff and then just surprises us out of nowhere. Like, we (or at least I) had no idea that Cathy and Heathcliff had a romantic love for each other until Cathy's speech to Nelly. The book doesn't show even one scene of them together in the moors, kissing, or hugging, or showing affection to each other ... Nelly just casually and briefly narrates that they became closer while growing up, and did some mischief together, but it doesnt put much emphasis to it. I sincerely did not think much of the pair Cathy-Heathcliff until that speech to Nelly and then I was like whoooa where did all that come from lol Yet, somehow (maybe because of the movies), your mind kind of fills in the gaps and creates the visions of the two together in a romantic way. I do wonder if up until that speech they had actually been together romantically (like, kissed or something) or if it was just the feelings, but nothing concrete ever really happened between them up until that point. Another thing that surprised me was when Cathy gave birth out of nowhere. The book didn't mention that she was pregnant until she actually gives birth and dies shortly after. I was so shocked! It says that the baby was 7 months, therefore, premature. I wonder 2 things... 1) How did she manage to give birth when she was so weak and 2) did Heathcliff know she was pregnant before she died? It seems a silly question but she was only 7 months and she had been bed-ridden and presumably all covered up in blankets... Maybe he didn't even notice it when he went to see her when she was dying...

@katiejlumsden

Жыл бұрын

So, I have a sort of theory that Heathcliff and Cathy's 'love' is mostly unphysical, that they would sort of think of themselves as above such things. There's a bit in Cathy's diary at the start that says about Hindley and his wife: 'Frances pulled his hair heartily, and then went and seated herself on her husband’s knee, and there they were, like two babies, kissing and talking nonsense by the hour-foolish palaver that we should be ashamed of.' Cathy is still pretty young at this point, but still, the idea that Cathy and Heathcliff would be ashamed of such 'foolish palaver' as kissing is kind of interesting. I always get a bit annoyed when the films fill up the gaps in such a romantic way because I feel like that's not quite right. It's more like a consuming passion than a romance with anything we'd recognise as romantic, I guess? In Victorian books, there is a lot of not mentioning pregnancy until a few weeks before characters give birth. I'm never really sure if it's a taboo about talking about pregnancy or more a sort of superstition about pregnancy loss. I was reading the read-life diaries of a Victorian woman the other day and during her pregnancy she starred out references to her coming child, saying something like: I starting sewing something for **** - because even in her diary she obviously felt anxious about saying outright that she was pregnant.

@faintingheroine

Жыл бұрын

@@katiejlumsden To be fair Cathy and Heathcliff do kiss a lot in their last scene together. Still I think nothing romantic/sexual went on between them before the “I am Heathcliff” speech. The book says: “Catherine and he were constant companions still at his seasons of respite from labour; but he had ceased to express his fondness for her in words, and recoiled with angry suspicion from her girlish caresses, as if conscious there could be no gratification in lavishing such marks of affection on him”. I think that the “gratification” here is romantic gratification, but Heathcliff is too proud to express feelings that he is sure are unrequited or at least impossible to be fulfilled. He only realizes that Cathy loves him back when he comes back rich and it is too late. And Cathy herself says that he will never know how much she loves him in the “I am Heathcliff” speech. So in my opinion, they are in love with each other but never act on it as teenagers. Of course, this is my interpretation. Many critics think that it is a non-romantic and non-sexual obsession. But I have personally always read their feelings as more conventionally romantic, especially Heathcliff’s feelings. As for it not being clear that they are “in love” with each other as children, there is Heathcliff’s excessive idealization of Catherine: “Afterwards, they dried and combed her beautiful hair, and gave her a pair of enormous slippers, and wheeled her to the fire; and I left her, as merry as she could be, dividing her food between the little dog and Skulker, whose nose she pinched as he ate; and kindling a spark of spirit in the vacant blue eyes of the Lintons-a dim reflection from her own enchanting face. I saw they were full of stupid admiration; she is so immeasurably superior to them-to everybody on earth, is she not, Nelly?’” and him being jealous of Edgar Linton’s handsomeness: “‘But, Nelly, if I knocked him down twenty times, that wouldn’t make him less handsome or me more so”. Other than this, the fact that they are a boy and a girl does much of the legwork, admittedly. This book is somewhat heteronormative, for example, Heathcliff immediately assumes that there will be a love triangle between Hareton, Cathy 2 and Linton and it kind of happens (though I wouldn’t classify Cathy 2 and Linton’s feelings for each other as romantic).

I have great respect for Nellie because she has a moral backbone and I have made the point before that the Brontes seem to have reserved the name Ellen/Helen for the most moral character in their novels.Cathy and Heathcliff are tainted by evil and the Brontes would have been well aware that you have to take sides when the devil comes to town!💝

@katiejlumsden

Жыл бұрын

Ooo that is an interesting point about the names!

Is Nick good at playing snooker?!

I was wondering if there might be any chance that young Catherine is actually the Heathcliff's daughter and not Linton's daughter, since chronologically, it would be possible in theory considering the lapse of time between Heathcliff's return to the premises and th birth. Or if at least that thought crossed Emily's mind, to plant a seed of doubt in her paternity. Or if that possibility was never even considered by Emily. Since I'm kinda not the best at picking up stuff that is very very subtle in literature, I ask my fellow readers that might be sharper than I am: is it in any way shape or form implied or even the possibility hinted, that Heathcliff and Cathy ever got to the point of actually being intimate with each other sexually?

For some reason I assumed WH is a love story and I bought it for my wife...who devoured it....and she said " no, you nitwit, it's horrible"

@katiejlumsden

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Ha it is horrible and wonderful at once.

God help us!

Heathcliff is a black man ❤😂

Heathcliff is a nasty piece of Victorian work, second only to Jack the Ripper. But I really like the book, because it provides a window into Emily Bronte's psyche. I think she was taking out her negative attitudes due to her life in her writing. As I was reading _Wuthering Heights_ I couldn't help asking, "What kind of person wrote this book?" "Vicious" is a descriptor that comes to mind. (I recommend a listen to the Lou Reed song, "Vicious".)

I read it as a love story and maybe that’s why I loathed the story. Glad you both enjoyed it though.

Well...one might say that we, in the 21st cent., are more reasonable respecting religion, sermonizing, and proselytizing. And they, our predecessors, were zealous to extremities. However, religion then was more popular and probably successful while today - to allude to Larkin - we struggle to find new uses for our grand churches.

I hated this book. I couldn’t get past the lack of any character with a sliver of a redeeming quality. It made it a ordeal to finish.