"We don't know." Shit, that's a better answer than nothing.

@AnoNYmous-bz2ef

7 жыл бұрын

And definitely better than a lie

The disc prevents blood running down the fuller from flowing all over the swordsman's hand.

@scholagladiatoria

7 жыл бұрын

lol

@ericv00

7 жыл бұрын

This channel has the best memes

@bozo5632

7 жыл бұрын

Collects the blood in the bowl, even.

@Borjigin.

7 жыл бұрын

For drinking the blood of your enemies.

@veredfireberger9247

7 жыл бұрын

So you can sacrifice it to Khorne.

Native Chinese here. Want to chime in with my limited experience, there is a still very common move that goes: 1. put dao into a hanging guard to the left of your face, 2. keeping the dao in point-down position and in a smooth motion "roll" your right arm over your head and swipe dao around your back, 3. deliver a power cut as the dao comes around the front using your core muscle. I have seen very similar moves in some Japanese Kendo styles and even Indian/Persian curved blade styles. Now if the guard is any larger than that disc you would clip yourself on your head doing it. I can't say if the disc came first or the move came first, but they are definitely congruent.

@jungleng

7 жыл бұрын

Great point. This move and the reverse of it is so common!

@YichengLi

7 жыл бұрын

Another possible factor is that many of the traditional dao forms incorporate the off-hand as part of the block, either to assist in a block/strike, or to grab, trap, or just engage the opponent's weapon, while you counter-attack. That may be why you don't see a lot of blade-binding moves in Chinese sword work (at least that I have seen) and most of the slashes are done in a circular fashion using false-timing (i.e. body follows feet) instead of true-time that you tend to have in HEMA or japanese kenjutsu. At least that's true for the single-hand dao. There might be different sets of techniques for twin dao, da dao, or miao dao.

@theartofmantis

7 жыл бұрын

I beg to differ. False timing shouldn't be a thing as it will really put you at a disadvantage. At the very least, body, feet and the end point should come together. both jian and dao do have binding and should be emphasised on as it is the bind that gives you the advantage and allows you to attack safely. Bind or not bind is context determined and shouldn't be considered two distinct styles. That said, generally speaking binding does require a higher level of technique and finnese.

@theartofmantis

7 жыл бұрын

Aden, I believe this kind of discussion can further our understanding, so I am interested in having a friendly debate and definitely not saying that my interpretation is absolutely correct. That said, I am going by how physics and our body mechanics work and I just don't see how foot leading body leading end point, i.e. false time would offer any advantage as this movement would leave the party in motion highly vulnerable and would likely impale himself on a stop-thrust. For hand-to-hand combat with the Mantis style, the timing of footwork, body movement and point of attack is always all together at once while leaning a bit on true time simply because we don't have a weapon in front to lead with. When using a longsword or spear with real weight, I find moving in true time is the most natural and reasonable. That's just my interpretation, please feel free to disagree.

@lalythil

7 жыл бұрын

hmm interesting discussion! I'd always been taught (in the limited amount of wushu practice I've had) to use 'false time', as power/chi flows from the feet, through the body to the hands and only then into whatever weapon you are using. Even if used in combat at a high speed where it all comes at almost the same time, the feet should still lead. Anyway, that's just what I'd been taught and I'm just a scrub haha. On another note, I do love how people can still have good, qualitative, informative debates on the internet! Quite a refreshment after all the slut-shaming, boo-ing and cursing etc. on a lot of other channels... Though that might just mean I visit the wrong channels.. maybe? haha

I'd love a whole thing on African swordsmanship. It's a fascinating blind-spot for me.

@migmindy

5 жыл бұрын

this is extremely late, but I figured while I'm here I'd mention. Have you seen Da'Mon Stith? He's on youtube and an excellent speaker and practitioner of African swordsmanship. His drills are great honestly for any one handed setup

I always thought that the way the sword is worn influences the guards quite a lot. And the way the sword is worn seems to be influenced by the way in which people rest. In Europe people sit on a chair, while in Asia people squat or kneel more often. Because of that, they tend to wear their swords more horizontally, which makes the guard stick out in front of their bodies. With that style disk guards are bearable, while with the European style of vertically suspended swords they would be quite a nuiceance. Just a thought.

@wildrain8602

5 жыл бұрын

I think you're on to something, even though the ancient Chinese mostly had chairs, they did wear their seirds horizontally and a cross guard would make it very uncomfortable.

I am a traditional Chinese martial art partition and i mainly invest my training time in Chinese swordsmanship. Thank you Matt for talking very deeply in the Dao. I would like to share some experience and thoughts here. Matt make a very good point that how the different in the usage between Chinese swords and European sword. I think these are the main reasons which lead to different hand guard design. In the systems I learnt and so far i have seen, there are skill that using different guards to stop an attack then counter with a stab or a blow. But this is not the first option we would choose unless we have great confidence it will success since there are not very good hand protection, hands will get hit very easily. Instead we choose to redirect or knock off the incoming attack(depends on your style having difference skill). And there is blinding in Chinese swordsmanship too, but mainly we won't let opponent swords slide to the forte, most of the skill are teaching us how to blind using the middle and the tip of the sword to get advantage. Dao(single edge Chinese swords) do blinding less often compare to jian(double edge Chinese swords). At last, our masters and historical manuals suggest that top tier swordsmanship are dodging an incoming attack and counter in different directions. So you may find most Chinese swords are relatively heavier and have a outer POB which looking for a better fajing(發勁) to do great damage in small movement, but still we require our swords to be agile and can do circular movement easily. Therefore small hand guards maybe the one of best solution in very less options. Those are the points I make beside the shield are carried in the war. In daily self defense or a duel , a dao or twin daos or a jian or a staff are greatly use among Chinese. So I think may be shields carrying are not the that heavily concerned compare to style of fighting among Chinese swordsman in the design of the Chinese swords.

@scholagladiatoria

7 жыл бұрын

Thanks, very interesting.

@tantan19910603

7 жыл бұрын

Thx for your points and i will try to explain more. The treaties I am referring to are. The first two are wrote in Republic Era and the last one were written in Late Ming. It is very true that dodging and counter is very high risk high reward tactics and it is the easiest to perform if you opponents perform killing blow at the very first attack . So it is not the skill u will choose or you can use very often if you are not confident or if u are not a better swordsman. Tons of practicing and fighting experience is needed to be perform. So many style Chinese martial arts suggest that jian are very hard to learn. But if you are interested you can take a look on the 對拆 of different traditional jian form like 三才劍, 清萍劍, 武當劍,達摩劍,昆吾劍. How to dodge and counter or intercepting the attack by attacking opponents hands are the skill that those arts try to teach. But still I will not always choose that approach according to my current skill level and again if you footwork and body movement (身法步法) are not gd enough it is true that you might find yourself double often. And i would quote a part of 武當劍譜 here for your reference but it is Chinese and my English is too bad for translate it. "不论何种兵器，两下冲锋，莫不接之截之，迎之接之，互相争胜，惟是剑法，绝然不同，交绥时，不接不截，不迎不架，凭空一击，无不命中，名曰：不沾青入红门也。" "只须顺势借力，蹈虚乘隙，凭空一击为妙。" Blinding in my opinion is both swordsman fight for the center line to gain advantage. Especially if your opponent have a longer weapon pointing at you often. In my experience using 洗OR挽花 technique often lead to blind. And what my style teaching is when you blind you redirect your opponents weapon aside then step in to attack or if your opponent got the sense or know what you're doing you both will just keep moving and blinding in order to find an opening . Lastly using shield in the war is a fact that i have no doubt in it. But I don't think it is the dominant reason why Chinese sword having a small guard my personal view still stand with the different fighting style. In my experience the hand guard of Chinese swords can only be prevent opponents weapon slide down and cut all your fingers. You cannot do stuff you can do with a European swords. And I don't think using shield are common in daily self-defense since 藤牌(most commonly used Chinese shield) are normally weight from 3kg to 5.4kg(五斤以上、九斤以下) and the radius are from 80 to 96 cm(二尺五寸以上、三尺以下)according to 戚繼光《練兵實紀雜集》卷五. I don't think it is really possible to carry in a state that officially ban most martial art practice and weapon carrying. I am sorry for my English since it is my third language and its is quite hard to translate and explain the idea, history and source from Chinese to English. But i will still try my best to do it. If you have an other view please let me know because there are not much chance to really talk about Chinese swords and its art.

@theartofmantis

7 жыл бұрын

Eric, thanks for you clarifications. That said, I still have a lot of reservations about what you said: 1) Jian fencing was more or less a lost art by Republican time, and I would take those manuals with a heavy grain of salt. 2) If we want to track it back to Ming, 《手臂錄》's author stated that the binding methods of the jian are very useful against a spear. "The Guards and Methods of Jian from Korea" basically says that it was used like a European longsword. 3) The Wudan Jian as you described is similar to what modern sport fencing is doing, and if you follow it in an actual sword fight you would end up getting yourself killed on a double. Fact is, no one is that good all the time, and at the very least, anyone that confident has to be "special" or has a death wish. Not only it will result in a double, it offers absolutely no advantage at all, unless you count going kamikaze as one, and it seems to only work while in measure with the opponent going deep trying to deliver the killing blow. What if they don't take the bait? What if they are trying to feint and bait you? What if they simply continue to present threat and force you into an unfavourable position? Are you willing to bet your life on one single dodge? 4) All Chinese martial art schools I have encountered that are proud of themselves on knowing how to use a jian put their money on binding and believe "stickiness" with jian being the highest of skills. 5) The major problem with jian's hand guard is that it wouldn't able to lock the swords on a thrust, but with the emphasis on sidestepping and quick footwork, it would not render binding unfeasible and dangerous; blade-dodging, on the other hand, is extremely dangerous. Furthermore, some historical paintings depict jian with longer hand guards, a bit similar to the European fashion. You can see this in 《中興四將圖》(Portrait of of Four Generals of Song). 6) Occupying the centre line is what most weapons systems do through out the world, and there is a very good reason behind it. It seems you are doing that part right. 7) Well, the go-to civilian weapon in Song, Ming and Qing wasn't jian or dao as in what we are discussing but rather the podao. In the even older days, they had a sword and buckler system using the straight-edged dao. In Ming period, if they had to use the dao without a shield, they would likely be dual-wielding daos. It was mostly on horse back where they'd use a dao independently. That's my interpretation on how physics and body mechanics work anyway, and I could, of course, be wrong. It is nice to have this discussion.

@tantan19910603

7 жыл бұрын

So I think its returning to the basic the different view toward the context and manuals. Since some people think republic era stuff are totally bullshit, some people think that republic era guys are really gd. It is hard to tell since they are all gone for many many years. In my understanding stickiness sword or stickiness hand are just a way to practice the feel/sense of the partition. It is a great way to due with spear because you can just blind to direct away its spearhead and slide down to cuts opponents fingers. And as dodging counter I think it is hard but possible as you can also find some video on different hema channel people doing hema also do that sometimes no matter with a saber or rapier or longsword. But as i mention before I do think redirect or knock away opponent attack will always be my first choice compare to dodge and attack since the point you make, high risk. As you talk about Song dynasty sword, there are very less antique was found. The only one kept in gd condition is the one shown in China 江蘇徐州博物館. You can find its photo on google if you are interested. It have a small crescent moon shape hand guard but its small and nothing like a cross guard of longswords. It look more likely a viking sword or a Celtic sword. About why PODAO it become greatly use in SONG, it is said that SONG is the most ridiculous period that almost ban all weapon carry with very harsh punishment. It is said that people can only bring a working knife wearing on trousers(著褲刀). In order to self defense, SONG people invented PODAO which the blade length is only 45-70cm and can be explain as a farming tool, long woodern handle can be install when they really need to fight. It become greatly use again by the Taiping Rebellion in late Qing. Actually I appreciate this friendly and nice discussion with you. It is always good to have someone to discuss with since no much people interested in this topic in the place I live. And also I of course maybe wrong too, only through discussion and practice we can learn more and help preserving this almost gone art and knowledge.

@theartofmantis

7 жыл бұрын

I am, of course, not saying no contact dodge is impossible or should never be performed. What I meant was that it is contextual, has little to do with the level of skills, and isn't a good idea to try to do it actively.

"I'll wrap it up" - Looks at clock: still 5 minutes left:)

Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that cruciform guards are predominantly utilized on double-edged swords, while the East Asian disc-guarded swords which you discuss here are generally single-edged. That would seem to be a fairly important detail which may give a clue as to the reasoning behind their design. Notably, the Chinese jian-- which is double-bladed-- does not typically feature a disc guard, but a more cruciform one.

@fabiovarra3698

7 жыл бұрын

Joe Marino but messers, falcions, shamshirs have all crossguard and are single edge

@KungFuJoeMarino

7 жыл бұрын

Fabio Varrà True, but I was focusing on East Asian single-edged swords, since that was the main discussion of the video.

@fabiovarra3698

7 жыл бұрын

i just wanted to remeber you that crossguard isnt esclusive of straight double edge sword, while maybe the disc guard is for single edge only (if we don't considerate the guard of the gladius a disc guard) and the guard of the most of the chinese jians look more like the one of a migration era sword or a roman spata, than a properly called crossguard

@edi9892

7 жыл бұрын

European arming swords, jian, dao and Shamshir/Tulwar are used very differently from each other. I still try to figure out how it affects the guards. All I can say is that I never got hit in sparring, where a crossguard would protect me most, but usually at my knuckles. My hypothesis is that crossguards are particularly suited for binds (which Asians avoid) and for punching. This however would not explain jian or Shamshir. PS: Messer have often very short crossguards, if at all. However, they often got a nail, thus they cover the same area as a disk!

@PongoXBongo

7 жыл бұрын

But they came after the invention of the crossguard, and so were likely just a case of "why not use it".

As a taiwanese, I think I can give you a new idea why far east people use disc guard. When I learn japanese kando & chinese martial art, we use different ways to defend the swords, not like European people do, we prefer to use the flat side of swords or use some rotational arm's move to guide opponent's swords cut to the different direction. Hope this can help you, sir.

@LibeliumDragonfly

5 жыл бұрын

yup, strike the blade aside is more than sufficient, you don't need a crossguard if you don't actually look forward to locking blade

@v.w.singer9638

5 жыл бұрын

Just what I was thinking. Chinese sword techniques often have a stronger "guiding" or redirecting element to their parry, resulting in longer contact with the enemy blade and at rapidly changing angles, making an all round guard useful.

I can say that with handling some western swords especially a two handed sword with a large guard, it could be that guards are not as large in size because of stylistic use and to keep from having the guard scrape against your forearm or even top of your head... with chinese and Japanese swords I don't have this problem but with medieval western swords, I have to swing them differently to avoid scraping myself with the guard. The fact that the sword is so heavy could be that they swing it slightly differently than you would a European sword as you kind of suggested with the swinging parry. And if you look at wushu and kungfu practitioners, flexibility of the wrist and a closer-to-the body moulinet if you'd call it that makes the sword use a little different than the somewhat straight arm'd looking techniques of medieval fencing

@jellevm

7 жыл бұрын

This makes sense honestly, I practice(d) kendo and even hit the top of my head occasionally with the simple disc guard on a shinai. I can imagine that, in a culture in which such straight swings over the head are favoured, a cross-guard would seem ridiculous and (literally) unwieldy. You couldn't _not_ hit your own head with it.

@solo8ph

7 жыл бұрын

Agreed. most of the styles of Martial arts for Dao is performed by circling it around the body.

@theherobever

7 жыл бұрын

I practice daab/dha and oval guard or no guard give a lot of option for cut and movement. But no defense so you rely on speed and precision a lot.

@illoney5663

7 жыл бұрын

This was a very interesting comment with some great insight, thank you for posting it.

@siloseeairenicus5889

7 жыл бұрын

I started practicing kungfu first, and when I made my western arming sword and longsword and practiced with them, I had the same problem too. I always thought it was only me having this issue but now you give me a possible answer to it.

I'm really enjoying these Dao videos. I'd love to see a video comparing and contrasting the Chinese Jian with the European Arming sword. 👍☺

@slenpaiwashere3599

7 жыл бұрын

tracy freeland I think a better comparison would be a jian and a Viking age sword as the jian was not in use during war in the 13-15 century during which the European Arming Sword would be in use

@tlfreeland7941

7 жыл бұрын

SlenpaiwasHere True.

@johnharvey5412

7 жыл бұрын

tracy freeland I'd find that interesting too, and maybe throw in some other cruciform swords from around the world.

@jellevm

7 жыл бұрын

I so want a jian video, there's not a lot of info on them that I could find.

@GallowglassAxe

7 жыл бұрын

I think he does in one of his videos. He briefly says its kind of like a spadroon where its kind of like a smallsword that can cut.

It’s been said a bunch already but, from experience, the only time the guard starts to become relevant to (Japanese) techniques is in either suriage waza or maybe kaeshi waza. Most of the time you either use the curve of the blade to redirect the opponents blade away from center or perform techniques with the middle to top portions. The disc guard protects the hand pretty well most of the time but maybe they’d have made them a bit larger if the swords were primarily one-handed thrusting weapons. Come to think of it I also occasionally hit my head on the tsuba in the beginning because my overhead strikes were too shallow so maybe their guards were influenced by the fact that they are two handed single edged cutters as well. Later on they did switch their same blades over to saber fittings so they fit in with western style too though for a time.

Matt is a superdry athlete

@ashfield4313

7 жыл бұрын

Haratio Memson Sources?

@FuzzWong

7 жыл бұрын

The Ultimate Superdry Athelete!

Honestly I don't trust anyone who talks about a historical topic and doesn't give "we don't know" as an answer once or twice.

@CottonPanzer

7 жыл бұрын

As a historian (mainly concerned with historiographical doings) I don't trust anyone who talks about a historical topic who doesn't go "we don't know", "it's hard to say", "a lot of different factors, but the main ones", "no singular answer", or finally "as far as I know". Sayings like "arguably", "on one side", "it seems like", etc, are much better than "it is", "it was". And never ever use words like "definitely" or "absolutely". (Except if talking about absolutism) I particularly distrust any historian who concerns himself with "historical accuracy" (what is that even supposed to mean? We don't know every single thing that happened) instead of historical authenticity. Or better yet, look at the message someone is sending with how they're depicting history. It truly doesn't matter which color someone was wearing two hundred years ago. It's way more interesting to look at which message the say, director of a movie chose, with having say, Napoleon in ornamented royal blue.

@godzilla51196

7 жыл бұрын

mixmastermind I think it's a far better answer to say that you don't know then to blow smoke and act like an expert. Matt is a well read enough person to have a comprehensive knowledge of European arms, armor and martial arts, but is honest enough to tell you when he's out of his depth. Also, history doesn't always have a clear and distinct answer. Things are often less cut and dried than they appear, and nuances of purpose and intent are often lost to the ages. Things then turn into "Because it works and we've always done it that way?", especially when you are talking about martial subjects. Soldiers in particular are known for "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." sort of behavior, and the reasons why are often long forgotten.

@lalli8152

7 жыл бұрын

Obviously historians can`t know certain things for sure. Unless there is actual written records or such from the period. I personally don`t trust anyone who gives absolute facts without also giving proper evidence. Things like size of hand guard is very hard to know for sure. You can give theories, and educate guesses, but without absolute evidence they are just theories.

@labbyshepherdpuppy5943

7 жыл бұрын

Shit not even theories, without evidence it's just hypothesis

@mixmastermind

7 жыл бұрын

Lalli Even written records are not a guarantee. You still have to account for bias, inaccuracy of the author, quality of the copy, etc. The rule of thumb is that you only need to prove something happened to the same extent as any thing in a similar context. And that changes depending on what you're studying. The amount of evidence required to prove a person's existence in 1st C. CE Judea is significantly less than 16th C. CE Italy, because there's so much less surviving documentation from that time. So any time one sees a historian write that something definitely happened or not, take that similar to how that works in science. "This has been proven enough times to be considered a fact but given some revelatory new study tomorrow it could be disproved."

Can you make a video about antarctican weapons? I'm really sure that penguins must have had some interesting wars going on in the past!

@scholagladiatoria

7 жыл бұрын

What even is the German word for curl?

@mixmastermind

7 жыл бұрын

scholagladiatoria Kölsch

@bbdawise

7 жыл бұрын

The war between the penguins and polar bears was long and bloody, but ultimately, the penguins won out.

@bozo5632

7 жыл бұрын

+El Monstero29 - penguins drove polar bears extinct in the South Pole in the urso-penguine wars.

@xiezicong

7 жыл бұрын

The Polar Bears had a diaspora and migrated north, hoping to one day retake their Holy Land from the penguins.

To start with a few quick corrections. A similar design of swords was not used by the Mongols. Mongols sabers almost always had cruciform guards and the use of cross shaped guards continued into the early-mid Ming dynasty. Also looking at early Sabers in China including the Tang sabers which formed the basis of the sword making methods from which the Japanese developed the Katana, many of them had rather small guards almost like miniature versions of the guard found on Qing dynasty Jian, although round Guards also existed. Also the forward projecting lip on Chinese Dao is something that became common in the early 20th century although there are some earlier examples. In general it is something done on cheaper Dao and really something that became common after Yao Dao were no longer being regularly used. Historically most Chinese Yao Dao had flat round or oval guards generally with a rounded thickened rim, much like the guards on Japanese swords. The round guards on Ming and Qing Dao makes sense given the ways attacks were parried or deflected using the Dao in Chinese martial arts of the Qing dynasty (and presumably going back at lest into the mid Ming dynasty). Obviously nothing is absolute but while static style parries did and do exist in Chinese sword systems they are usually not all that commonly used, although it depends on the style. Even in styles where they are commonly used they still generally lack the variety seen in most European sword methods. Which is to say it's not uncommon for Chinese sword styles to have 2-3 static parries with the rest being various types of circular redirection and counter cutting or beating. Although in some styles those 2-3 static guards will be considered among the more important ones and be used at least close to as often as the more common types of sweeping redirections. Of those 3 categories circular redirection is probably the most common in Chinese swordsmanship. This does not mean the modern sticky sword stuff. What it means is that rather than direct counter cutting the sword is generally cut backwards and at an angle to sweep back away an incoming blow rather than a more direct meeting. Basically this is done using the backwards moving portion of the motion called a Moulinette in European swordsmanship. This is done with both inside and outside forward and reverse Moulinettes. Because of this the various moulinette type motions in Chinese swordsmanship need to be done in specific manners to retain structure and properly redirect an attack. For the most part either the front edge or the spine of the blade leads these backward sweeping motions. This means that for most of the methods of parrying / redirecting an attack in Chinese swordsmanship the blade of an opponent is more likely to come down along the flat or your blade. Because of this round guards are much more effective that cruciform guards. Although as mentioned both static style parries and methods of beating off incoming cuts also existed / exist in most styles. However even in those cases they are most often done in ways in which the opponents blade is more likely to come down along the flat of your blade.

One of the instructors at my TKD studio has been studying ShaoLinQuan, and I was asking him for some advice on Dao technique, and what he said was relatively similar. He said, in general, always try to get the opponents blade out of the way and then close

I know an instructor whose father was a caravan guard in northern China. His comment was that most Dao practice was focused on surviving against pole weapons. That may have influenced the design of the guard.

@adenyang4398

6 жыл бұрын

It's indeed true that Chinese sword styles (both Dao & Jian) developed in the context of defending against longer and heavier weapons. Same for Japanese ones. I am sure HEMA once in history used to emphasize the same as well. Sadly, it's not something that is emphasized in most clubs today. Not to mention the relatively lacking sources for sword vs. polearms in remaining HEMA treatises.

@CoffeeSnep

5 жыл бұрын

Swords were expected to be able to go up against pole arms, until later on in the modern period when they only encountered other swords and maybe bayonets on rifles. Fiore Di Liberi has quite a bit of material on fighting against a spearman with a sword.

It's likely that crossguards began expanding in Europe due to cavalry use. When you're fighting on horseback you can't necessarily always use your shield - especially if you're fighting with something like a large kite shield. This is also probably part of why we see plate protection for the arms and legs appear before breastplates(the other part being metallurgy).

The turned edge on the guard makes it stronger without becoming heavier.

Is it just me or Matt's videos thumbnail are getting more and more phenomenal.

When I saw the Tuareg thingamagig, I thought it was a theatre prop or lindybeige-style immitation for larp...

From the swords you showed it looks like thrust specialized swords are more likely to have knuckle protection, and chop specialized sword are more likely to have side protection. I think(based on little evidence mind you) it's because when you thrust or guard with the the point facing your opponent you expose your knuckles more requiring knuckle protection, whereas when you chop/hack/cut whether to attack or knock your opponent's weapon you expose the back of your hand more necessitating side protection. Kaskaras, arming swords and even that one tuareg sword which had cross guards look like thrusting weapons(not to say they can't cut), whereas daos and even messers that deliver more cuts developed side protection.

The usage of blocking in Chinese (and by extension Vietnamese) comparing to dussack or messer is the right direction. The idea is to "guide the blade away". Hope you received my gift via email. More information on Daos there.

I've read in multiple sources that the Tuareg once had an aversion to touching iron, so maybe that's why they guard had leather over it. Apparently they cover other things made of iron as well, or at least used to, their medicine women are supposedly not allowed to touch metal. The Tuareg used a special class of smiths called the 'ineden' to make their takoubas. I have a feeling the takouba you have though may be Hausa or Nupe, but I could be wrong. But Hausa and Nupe ones tend to be flatter and wider at the base. Just something I've noticed.

We need a video about that African sword

@daDuke42

7 жыл бұрын

seklay Antarctic swords

@xiezicong

7 жыл бұрын

That 'Anime Medieval Sword' scared me to death looking at it. I was like, "Is that cardboard?" It looked like someone took a sword from MineCraft and decided to print it out IRL. No offense intended to the culture/people who made it, of course.

@ariochiv

7 жыл бұрын

That's got to be one of the silliest looking swords I've ever seen.

@Slash-XVI

7 жыл бұрын

I am actually interested to what time period that sword dates. Given that northern africa at the very least was influenced by european cultures, there might be some sort of coupled development going on, which would make the point about the cross-guard beeing the more natural solution slightly weaker than if that weapon developed without major influence from already similar weapon types.

@kargaist

7 жыл бұрын

Straight swords with very small cross guards existed in the middle east since at least the early islamic period.

as you said, probably the disc guard have a function akin to the nail in messers to protect the hand from cuts to the flat

I've run across some videos here on KZread about dao fighting techniques, and they have more of an emphasis on deflecting other weapons. However, how much you can trust a KZread video is highly variable.

Thrand makes a very good point in his video on shields about the use of short guards in the roman and viking periods. Namely, in conjunction with the very broad pommels typical of those swords, one had two points extending just a bit past the knuckles that one could use to brace a center grip shield against powerful blows whithout one's knuckles getting all scraped up. A longer guard is actually counterproductive in that regard, so it makes sense that those would only become common when strapped shields did. Not only is it harder to cover the hand with a kite shield, but it's immensely easier to brace the shield without the sword hand helping. One thing about the cupped disc guard that comes to mind is that it acts a bit like the lugs on a federschwert. Does the same thing as the usual guard, but goes that little bit extra to keep sharp metal away from your knuckles by extending forward a bit. The cup on a dao just happens to do its job without the trade-offs that the lugs do with proper leverage and so on in the bind. Though at that point I'm forced to wonder why Japanese swords don't use the cup...

Also the disk guard is good at avoiding getting caught on clothes, shields, etc etc. Especially important in the chaos of battle.

There are a few more potential benefits for the disc guards that were not mentioned. One is that compared to a cross guard they are less likely to snag on anything such as ties on armor. Another is that such a structure can provide adequate protection even with limited metallurgy. The quality of metal produced at the time varied in a range between good and poor. A disc is a more reliable structure to trust for protection than a thin piece sticking out the side. Also, when producing a large number of swords over a short time which was sometimes the case in Asia, many apprentice craftsman will be doing most of the work. A design that has less potential for errors during production is easier to mass produce.

@mysticonthehill

7 жыл бұрын

Very good point.

Please do a video on the Chinese Jian and keep up the great videos!

Great Videos. Will you make one about the Jian/ Gim as well?

I have never practised kenjutsu but in kendo we have a technique called "suriage" meaning "sliding up". This is when you move your blade at an slight angle up through the incoming cut to make it bounce off your blade and your blade ends up strait over the opponent ready to strike down, usually on the head. In this technique the side protection of the tsuba is vital. The technique does exist also in kendo-kata witch is a small sample of 10 kenjutsu-kata that is included in kendo and performed with bokuto or even metal-blades, so it at least existed in some kenjutsu styles.

Some Thai Dha actually had disk guards with curving "quillons" extending forward the top of the disk and rearward from the bottom of it; and then of course there were "cup and quillon" rapiers; boths forms of a combination of circular AND cross hilted swords!

This was very good a lot of thinking needed

Very well thought out. I'd never considered the coevolution of shields and swords.

Hi, thanks for videos n reviews on many Chinese swords. I learned a lot. Would you mind if I share my knowledge about the disc guard n also the circular ring at the bottom of the handle of the Han Jiang?

Historically it seems that the average soldier would have used a dao with a shield, so yes, the guard wasn't super important since you already have a huge guard protecting most of your upper body, but when dao is used on its own, at least in modern styles, the other arm is almost always used in accordance with the sword arm for reinforcing the blade, or for controlling your opponent's motions and grappling. Like when you use a hanging guard, you can grab your opponent's arm stepping in and then in one fluid motion wrap the blade around your head to strike at their head or neck, or when using an inside guard you can step across and through your opponent as you grab your opponent's sword arm from over your own sword arm and then thresh through their stomach as you move past them until you are facing their back and are ready to attack from behind as they have to quickly recover and turn completely around to counter the next strike. The guard tends to be very tight to the body as well since you don't have much of a guard to protect yourself and because it allows you to easily change blocks, but also as you said cutting to block is very common, done in accordance with a forward or backwards step to either engage for a counter strike or to disengage and recover.

There is an 18th century Korean martial arts manual called Muye Dobo Tongji (English translations are available on Amazon) in which there are illustrations of what appear to be two people executing static blocks. There is also a small section on shield use, and they don't appear to use the shield in a manner that protects the hand. I don't know anything about historical swordsmanship though, and the text accompanying the illustrations are unhelpful at best (they use things like "posture in which big mountain presses a bird egg" without explaining what that is). I'd love to hear about your take on this manual.

Hey Matt, could I suggest for a fight review that you give the Duel between Peter and Miraz from "The Chronicles of Narnia: Prince Caspian" a crack? Lots of painfully telegraphed moves but also some interesting techniques in the meantime.

I think the dish wall is for strengthening the dish guard itself, to make it much less flimsy with less material required. this type handguard is common seen on low- rank or combat level weapons and less seen on those high-rank or premium commander weapons, in that period, which usually have dish handguard made of either forged steel with engravings or cast bronze without "cup wall".

Matt introduces THREE final things - just does not want to finish!

In Aikido, I've learned that parrying is done by using the side of a katana to receive and deflect blows. This is done to preserve the edge which is very brittle.

@12:08 I do believe they were still saying that while the primary purpose for the disc is as a hand guard, and that the weird dish shape specifically was done as a little add-on to potentially prevent rain and other crud from getting into the scabbard. Not sure if I agree or not, but that was my interpretation; not that they were saying the disc wasn't intended to be a guard at all.

The hand guard is disc-shaped. On the one hand, it is to avoid rain when it is put in the sheath, and on the other hand, it prevents blood from flowing to the handle after being cut and slashed, causing the hand to slip and hold.

The Chinese also had cruciform guards and a kind of basket hilt. Look at the various forms of Jian or Gim swords as well as the famous Bart jam dao or Butterfly swords and the overall shape of the exotic Deer Antler Knives or Mandarin Duck Knives associated with Baguazhang which while not strictly a sword, they do form a guard for the hand. Different Chinese martial traditions have differing attitudes about parrying/deflection, but if we extrapolate from the empty hand forms, they do generally favor forcing the incoming attack into a different vector to create an opening for counter rather than static blocks.

It used to be that when you had a compact disc guard, you could upgrade to a digital video disc guard, which helps your fingers see where it's going. But now they have a blue ray disc guard, and i haven't even upgraded to a light saber yet

Thank you very much for informing us through your video clips. I have two questions, and I wonder whether there are any historical recommendations on that (I ask these questions for intellectual curiosity only). Firstly, how long does the crossguard on a knife (on each side, starting from the handle) be at the very minimum to stop the blade (knife or even longer blades) of an opponent from cutting one’s fingers (situation: one parries a cut, and the blade of the opponent glides down the blade of one’s knife)? Secondly, does the choil of a knife help in any way in this regard? Thank you very much in advance for taking your time and answering my questions.

as someone who pratices a Niten ichi Ryu, a kenjutsu style originated at the end of the Sengoku Jidai (the japanese equivalent to the middle ages, you could say) I must say it's a very dinamic combat. Kenjutsu, and even Kendo give a huge importance to "maai", the control of range of weapons, hence why only strikes with the tip of the blade "score"; While the more experienced praticioners master how to stay a "inch" away from their oponent's reach and strike as soon as they get in range, the beginners (and the veterans using smaller weapons, such as "wakisashi" vs "katana") use lots of "parries", but as in the second way you showed, we strike the incoming blow away to open way for our own. We also use, I forgot the name you give in hema, that parry in which you use the force of the incoming blow to swing your own blade back into position to strike and use it against your foe. "Static" parries, while taught to beginners, are very rarely used however, as "wars of attrition" are very ill seen by the Samurai, the whole philosophy of the combat stays around "one cut, one kill", you don't do lots of small cuts to weaken your enemy, you don't make them suffer, you don't unecessarily prolongate the fight, you cut them down with a single strike and end the combat as soon as possible so order and harmony are restored - hence why I find the duel in Twin Suns, from Star Wars Rebels to be the very best in star wars, since the jedi were originally based on samurai and the sith were supposed to be the philosophical oposite, people that craved for combat and suffering and wished to prolongate it as much as possible... which is clearly the reason maul lost, he didn't went in for the kill, he went in for the adrenaline rush of a long and agonizing combat - resulting a very dinamic and offensive focused combat style where any sign of lost of momentum is frowned upon (some times even more than double hits, while the ideal is to kill without being killed, it's preferable to take your killer with you than to let they take you without losses). Also, strategists of the time saw as ideal to position their armies against rivers or other obstacles that completely stopped them from running for the battlefield (A SHAMEFUL DISPRAY!), forcing them to move forward and break through enemy's lines to survive, this is, therefore, taught to their combatants, with techniques focusing on moving forward, never back. you don't just stand there being hit by your oponent at their own leisure, you shrug it off and advance, breaking through them; In soldier to soldier/ samurai to samurai combat that means you don't "staticly block", you use every second, every movement, every oportunit to strike your foe down and that includes your parries. you can't afford to let them settle the rythim of combat as to what better suits them, you must make the best out of your time and resources so even a smaller, weakened and surrounded force can win against their bigger, stronger and better positioned foe.

@marcelosilveira2276

7 жыл бұрын

by the way, there is a saying "I don't need my tsuba", suposely said by a samurai that used a brass tsuba instead of a steel one, as in "I've mastered maai, i don't need to block"

@adenyang4398

6 жыл бұрын

The concept of maai is indeed a crucial aspect in East Asian swordsmanship. Not only in Kenjutsu, but also in Jianfa and Daoshu (Chinese & Korean). Most likely due to martial artists always needing to defend themselves against bandits and tyrannical imperial soldiers armed with polearms and ranged weaponry. The closest European sword style with similar principles that come to mind would be the Bolognese systems. Bolognese swordsmanship seems to emphasize moving in and out of measure quickly, and mobility is one of the core aspects of how they fight. If they need to block, they seem to emphasize counter-cutting and swatting away blows in contrary to a lot of the German systems, which tend to emphasize using the crossguard to utilize static parries and tight winding attacks. (particularly the Liechtenauer traditions.) I personally think the concept of maai is great, and opens a whole another potential for developing sword skills (or any martial arts in general). But maai training can often take some dedication and proper guidance, while just parrying or using tight winding techniques may be more straightforward to a lot of people. (stance training vs. sword winding drills & sparring - you know which most beginners would prefer.) I do like to think that swordsmanship styles based around the concept of maai is superior and has more potential for development though, especially if combat starts to involve facing off against ranged weaponry. (spears, heavy polearms, etc.) But I am a little biased, so take it with a grain of salt.

@marcelosilveira2276

6 жыл бұрын

yup, I also think the mastery of maai is better than to master static blocking, as in the long term, old aged swordsmen will still know how to use maai, possibly staying victorious, while their speed will only go down with time, meaning that after an age they will start losing to younger fighter, even if they are less skilled. Probably the reason we associate "masters" of eastern fighting styles with old men while we see the "masters" of western styles as younger men at the summit of their time, when they already have experience, but before their bodies' start to decline. But, as I said, I pratice an eastern martial art, and I didn't want to sound like I was bragging about my style, specially because I don't know all there is to know about either styles, so I avoided jumping to conclusions.

I've been wondering about this, particularly in regard to the katana, as to my knowledge katana were never used with a shield, so not having a guard seems like a major drawback.

I also think the lip is mainly for enhancing the structural integrity but I´d also consider that if you hit a surface with a sword you´re quite likely to slip off which would nullify the function of the guard as the opponents sword would slip off straight at your hand - so the lip could have a biting potential to prevent slipping.

In kendo we thrust into incoming cuts so the sword bounces away off the suba. It works like a little sheild.

I had a bit of hema saber /sabre sword training and had a bit of wushu jian and dao demonstrated to me plus introductory kendo. From what you are saying has merit. But the thing I noticed from what I was shown was that in kendo and some Chinese martial you would bat away or parry with the sides or even the back of the sword not so that the cutting edge is always facing your opponent. While the hema saber fencing I was taught was to essentially block or parry with the cutting or even if possible the back of the sword. So for more eastern style you could say parrying and blocks was more with the sides of the sword instead of western style

Great subject. One comment though, in many non-thrusting strikes are powered using the head wrapping technique, and many parries involve accelerating the opponents sword in an unwanted trajectory by striking with the spine of the sword lightly above the blade's widest point. This is usually done while while flanking opposite the direction where you have thrown the other person's sword to give that maximum opportunity for your own cut.

"So I think I'll wrap it up there..." *five minutes later* You have to love what you do to do that. Sweet video on an unusual topic not many talk about with any care. Thank you.

'Wrapping the head' would be more difficult with a big cruciform guard. In kung fu manuals the 'prime' tip down high guard is often followed by the 'wrapping the head' counter, where the blade circles behind you and around to generate momentum.

Regarding the lip on the disk guard; could it be to handle asymmetric engagements? For example, if you are fighting someone who's using a spear or even a staff and they make a thrust, then the lip guard would catch that thrust and prevent the end of the spear or staff from going further forward. That would not be the case if the lip guard faced backwards (towards the wielder). In that case it would be possible for the opponent's thrust to glance off the guard and continue straight on into your body if you are unlucky. Obviously, the lip guard on your dao performs some function. If it was just ornamental you should expect to also find daos where the lip guard points backwards. Actually, the lip pointing backwards would produce a more aesthetically appealing dao than the one you are using for purposes of demonstration so that would seem to be the preferred design unless some safety consideration over-ruled such a choice.

Hello Matt! I have following your channel for some years now, and I wanted to thank you for the amazing content you put up for us here. Here is my question: How come all peoples of the Earth (apparently) had some day started to make swords that all share the same idea of a pommel, hilt, and some sort of metal casted in a elongated form being straight or curved. Were they all inter-connected somehow or "inter-inspired"? Is there a hint that there was some sort of communication betweens peoples long before the dates the history books tell us? I hope my question is not that much confusing. Best, S.A.

@peacebewu

6 жыл бұрын

相良アレキサンダー拓磨 I guess it's just human nature to have similarities with another. I mean pretty much every culture has an idea of politics. I guess it's the same with other stuff.

I've always personally felt you have a little bit more control with a disc guard, especially in the directions of the flats from the added contact with the hand you make to the guard which you can push on. Could the elongation of the crossguard during that time period have any connection with sword and buckler popularity?

The dao's (Knife) disc guard is to prevent the opponent's blood to run down your hand, and also to keep rain out of your sheath when the dao is in it.

I have been studying historical Chinese weaponry for a while and I've noticed an interesting fact that the disc-shaped guards on Chinese swords(either dao or jian) only came into being after around 9th-10th century(basically after Tang dynasty), before that the predominant form of guard on a sword was a short cross guard( like you see on the sword of Goujian and many Han dynasty swords) and most single edged swords during 200BC to 500AD don't seem to have any form of hand protection at all. Apparently one noticeable feature for the warfare in ancient China after 8th century was the introduction and quick development of heavy cavalries(equivalent of persian cataphracts) and super-heavy infantries that were used against these cavalries, both of which reached its zenith during 10th-12th century. While I cannot found any sound evidence that this has anything to do with the change of sword guard shape, I still suspect that the changing face of war might have influenced the design of the weapons of that era and it later became a fixed element for any Chinese-influenced Asian swords.

Hey Matt, could you make a video about footwork in sword fighting? Or was that discussed already?

The disc guard is useful to stop the blood from streaming down to the handle.

It does keep the hand from slipping up to the blade...If the disc was left with out that lip, I think you are right about comfort..might prevent the edge from getting shard over years of use..

Chinese double edged straight swords do sometimes have cross guard esque guards, but they also had disc guards sometimes. its very interesting. maybe take a look at that?

Well, I just discover one reason for the disc guard. It is to cover the scabbard as a lid, to prevent dust/water from dropping into the scabbard.

OMG guys! Chinese flattamahstraaah! Confirmed. On a more serious note, strapped shields might not be extended as often yes, but even more so, rolling them over the top of the sword hand might be quite a tricky, clumsy sort of manoeuvre, especially if they are long like a kite shield, so the outside of the sword hand logically becomes more vulnerable. Also interesting that classical era, or going further back, Bronze Age swords often had an oval or ovoid 'guard'. So arguably they get extended forward and back in Europe and side to side in the Far East. Anyway, a fascinating video as usual, thanks Matt! Ooh! Also, if the langesmesser is a close match in terms of design to the dao - is it? I'd be interested in people's thoughts- and this is one of the first places side protection for he hand turns up in Europe, maybe this sort of blade encourages actions that put the side of the hand at risk, like parries with the flat, and the nagel and disk guard are examples of a sort of parallel evolution. I wonder if there are, for example civilian daos with bigger disks than military ones.

a conjecture: might there something about how the sword is carried between combat encounters? Stereotypically: Cruciform swords were overwhelmingly carried slung low on the hip, even for horsed knights. I feel like most Eastern swords and Celtic swords were carried in hand to combat for foot soldiers. Most middleeastern I can think of were on back (even when mounted) or on the mount itself. cutlass style arms were kept available in armory cabinets for quick access. gladius was on the side and high, and katana were also carried more up at the waist, both had slim ring. later smalllswords, rapiers, and larger basket hilts had to be carried off the body with frogs, which was a refinement/reaction.

one possibility is how the dao is sometimes used... in some usage there are a lot of "rolling" cuts where the blunt edge of the saber is rolled and slid over the upper body and back for coverage in various angles. the sides of the hand could be more vulnerable to attack when used in such a way. maybe?

The lip on the disk basically presents an “edge” to the edge of the enemy blade, with all that implies.

Can you do a video on the billhook?

On that note, I remember you talking about guardless swords like shashka and khyber knife in earlier videos. Do you think they would have been used the same way as daos, as in for swatting away incoming blows rather than blocking?

@scholagladiatoria

7 жыл бұрын

Yes I do.

I think the main purpose of the cross guard is simply to prevent the hand from sliding on the blade. It can help protect but Chinese had weapons with various hilts. I'll have picture links below. The Hookswords and butterfly swords had D-shaped guards but the Jian had virtually no hand guard. I don't believe the shields were the main reason because we have the weapons like the twin dao which was made famous by Zuko from Avatar the last Airbender. Those were a pair of dao design to be used for dual wielding and can be carried in the same scabbard. Twin Hookswords s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/33/09/c8/3309c87058be40ba0e03f6b63e3b28af.jpg Butterfly Swords www.swordsantiqueweapons.com/images/s009a.jpg Twin Dao s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/66/7d/4b/667d4b1f68859d4d99e5fccc9a8cbc49.png

Anyone interested in Italian military swords? I recently did a video on the 1871 Italian Cavalry sword. I'm no where near as good an orator as Matt, but the video isn't entirely terrible.

@victoriansword

7 жыл бұрын

IPostSwords Yes, definitely worth checking out this channel.

@IPostSwords

7 жыл бұрын

Snus Caboose gotta start somewhere. it feels bad piggybacking from Matt's videos but at least our content is related.

@z54964380

7 жыл бұрын

I subscribed because I like your face, don't judge me.

@IPostSwords

7 жыл бұрын

Kinda judging.

A fair point not said is that the guards on swords were not the only thing protecting the hand, I speculate that especially in earlier medieval period the cross-guard protected your hand from blunt damage caused by a sword strike, your mail mittens would protect it otherwise, aka It didn't have to be wide or anything. Could the disc guard be the result of lacking hand protection?

A guard without a lip on an iron or bronze sword would deform and bend pretty fast. It's pretty safe to assume that the lip was to reinforce it at a minimum weight cost.

I'm a iaido practicioner, and I actually have no idea of the actual purpose of the disc guard, in fact in iaido (as far as I know at least), we don't use the guard to block anything, we always use the flat of the blade or dodge, sometimes the edge but it's rare. Nonetheless once I was trying to know more about the katanas in general and I saw somewhere that the actual purpose of the Tsuba is not really to protect the user from other blades but in fact it is to protect him from his own blade. By this I mean, the primary source of the Tsuba, according to the source I found (and forgot), is to prevent the hand of the user from slipping into the blade thus cutting himself. It actually makes some sense, considering that this kind of guard doesn't offer that much protection or as much practical use as a crossguard that can be used for several things. Another aspect that supports this statement is the fact that some Tsuba aren't actually very durable, yes of course some are quite strong and broad, but others are thinner and weaker. Anyway I guess we will never actually know, but this is the one I find more reasonable, the Tsuba not being intended to block other blades. I guess the guard blocking an opponent's blade, in this case, would be more of an "extra" feature than a main one.

Leatherwrapping the crossguard actually seems smart, since the edge will not glide as easilly against it but stick to it more...interesting!

My theory on crossgaurds in Europe lengthening after the Viking age, is the decline of the shield wall as a tactic. If you look at the guard and pommel on a Viking sword, they sort of line up. You can actually push on the inside of your shield with your sword in your hand (clenched around the grip of your sword with the guard and pommel lying flat against the inside of the shield.) Once the Norman style of warfare takes over shield walls don't occur as often and fighting from horseback you dont brace your shield really ever.

I used to practice a style of Kung Fu called Yau Man (I am not a master by any means, maybe an enthusiast at most), wich is very similar to Wing Chun and other southern styles, in the Dao routines there were no distinction between defensive and offensive movements, wich seems to suggest defending by hitting into an incoming blow is not a strange notion. Also, many Dao routines had "vestigial" movements wich reminded me the active use of a shield or some similar defensive weapon. This is something wich was also present in Butterfly Sword routines, in wich two short-ish cutting swords are used simultaneously. In this case, you always moved the two swords together (I guess in HEMA you would call it "the same tempo"), for either blocking or striking.

I heard when used a dao, make sure you never thrust, the hole of your fist should form a right angle with your arm. This is so that in battle field, your sword is never stuck in anyone’s body, which may happen in a thrust (you have to pull back, and your wrist will be exposed.)

Could the development of the cruciform hilt correspond to the more prominent role of European swords as sidearms? As you discussed in a recent video, swords were also often carried in a civilian environment where they are allowed, but shields are impractical or disallowed. With no proper defensive tool, guarding your hands with the one way you're given seems all the more crucial. Same goes for battlefield situations where an archer only has his sword for protection.

Honest question... How flexible are the dao and the jian traditionaly? Ive seen some that look like a spring and others that do not move at all when moving it but do flex when they hit something, and others that will nit bend at all or if they do they stay like thay, like the katana...

Matt, you mentioned that the disc guard is found also in Nepalese kora (i haven't searched it up yet so i might be wrong on my assumption of what it might look like. kukuri with disc guard?), but I want to point out that Nepal is pretty close to China, so they might, to some extend, get influenced by China due to either fighting them, or checking out their gear due to the silk road. And the rondel dagger (but that's not a sword).

This is a standard guard at the time while the blade is not... So i believe there is a really good reason for the guard to be shaped like this...

Could one use for the lip on the disc guard, be to prevent a enemy blade form sliding of, by making it biting into the lip?

Can you do something on the double-edged chinese swords?

Would you consider a video about the effectiveness of the zulu assegai in the light of the battle of isandwana

Chinese crossguards are typically for Jians rather than daos, but some Jians do have disc guards, also I think you would find it interesting that during the Song dynasty the disc guards were tear drop shaped, and the quillons on the jian resembles what you would see in Europe and abroad althou not as big as the middle ages/renaissance but certainly larger than the vikings.

Not much experience with circular guards but I would like to suggest a reason for the "sudden" lengthening of the european cross-guard. I fight primarily with Norman kite and welsh round shields (strap and boss-grip respectively) and it has been my experience that the longer guard is more inconvenient when fighting with a round shield. When using a round shield I would normally hold it partially extended and fight around the edge of it - much the same way as using a buckler to protect the hand and body, but without having to extend it so far due to it's size. In doing this a sword with a longer crossguard can make manipulating the sword behind/around the shield more difficult, whilst the shorter guard avoids this. Once we move to using the kite shield it tends to be more useful held close to the body with only small movements needed to deflect anything close to passing it, this means the sword is used much more independently from the shield, giving you the space to extend the guard without compromising mobility whilst also creating a requirement for greater hand protection when the blade is in play as you mentioned.

The function of the lipped disc guard? Well, it's an ashtray, innit?

Again, your arm strap kite shield has a bloody BOSS!😉

@scholagladiatoria

7 жыл бұрын

Early kite shields still had bosses, but without grips inside.

Matt, could you critique the various medieval Lego sets from over the years? I remember my Lego knights coming with various types of shield but I don't remember the hand-guards on their swords varying to match the shields : /

Why didn't they put disc guards on jian's?

@velkewemaster

7 жыл бұрын

SirFuzzyTheWUzzY in my experience the jian is used in a more "european" way. usually presenting the point forward and blocking with the base of the blade instead of the wide cuts of daos or messers

@slenpaiwashere3599

7 жыл бұрын

SirFuzzyTheWUzzY cause Jians are used for nobility and as a show of status not for war they were only used in war during the warring states period 3rd century and when they were used in war it was used with a shield during this time Romens would be using gladious as they're primary weapon making a 34-36 inch jian quite long in comparison

@coronal2207

7 жыл бұрын

They were used for thrusting, so there may be a reason, I hope Matt elaborates on that

@Cookiesdiefrombehind

7 жыл бұрын

they did though. ming dynasty jian sometimes have disc guards.

@Chigou

7 жыл бұрын

They did. But were abandoned by the mid-ming dynasty. Around the time that jian become phased out on the battlefield

I do wonder how much of the technique of far eastern martial arts influenced the disk guard, and how much of the disk guard was created in necessity from the fighting styles of the time. Lots of pondering to be had.

15:22 that looks very... archaic

Given the easy comparison with the messer, the disc guard and the nagel seem to have some comparability in side of hand protection. Upturned lip aside, a disc guard seems a fairly easy shape to make, certainly simpler and cheaper than the multi-part crossguard + nagel.

But wich one is more protective would you say? Cross guard or disc guard? Because although the disc offers "relatively little protection", it appears to cover a far greater area of the hand, (coming from an inexperiecend swordsman point of view), than the cross guard

@CoffeeSnep

5 жыл бұрын

For thrusts, yes the disc guard offers more protection. But against cuts, the straight bar extends far enough to get in the way of most descending cuts.

prevalence of duels (contests of mastery in the art) could advocate for a better hand protection for a stand-alone weapon