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@Jan12700

3 жыл бұрын

Manscaped is trash!

@BiggerR10

3 жыл бұрын

@@Jan12700 yeah, fuck em!!

@stijnvdv2

2 жыл бұрын

This ain't a giant plot hole.... the story isn't about finding the MacGuffin, the story is about the character and the character arc. It's about the character Indiana Jones in this story. Whether the A-story in the end is accomplished or not or whether the character was relevant to the ending of the A-story is usually not relevant at all. It's the journey of the character that interests people, guys want to be this guy and women want to marry this guy! That's why it's popular; it's popular coz it's entertaining, fun.... words in today's Hollywood are as much as a distant relic as the artifacts in Indiana Jones itself. Maybe that's why Hollywood goes down the tube... they think they are a political party having to stuff political agenda's down your throat instead of ... you know, being the ENTERTAINMENT industry.

I'd counter the "Indy is useless" argument with Marion 100% gets killed for the talisman and there's no guarantee the Ark ends up in the hands of the good guys after it gets opened the first time. Indy being there and surviving guaranteed the Ark fell into the right hands in the end.

@mesozoicisland22

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly!!

@Mineoutain

3 жыл бұрын

I am glad someone said this

@kaimagnus5760

3 жыл бұрын

Also, lets not ignore the fact that in the story no one knew the Nazis wouldn't be able to control the Ark's power. So Indy interfearing was a safeguard to keep that from happening.

@lukasbryant9881

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you. Someone else using their head to think through things. Though I love his ending point.

@marxel4444

3 жыл бұрын

imagine them bringing the ark to hitler, all the high nazi people are there,they open it. nazi high command gone in the blink of an eye!

"It's an ADVENTURE MOVIE! It's about following along with Indy's ADVENTURE!" "Oh, he said that. Okay"

The Nazis were already tracking Marion I thought. They were at the bar, she had the medallion from her well known dad. Calling her an innocent bystander is a stretch.

@xaviervargas4098

3 жыл бұрын

Plus, it's absurd to say he put her in danger. She literally forces him to take her along. It's a whole scene.

@wdsmkc

3 жыл бұрын

Indy learns that Abner had found the headpiece as a result of the intercepted Nazi message. The Nazi’s knew Abner had it. They were actively seeking the headpiece. It would have only been a matter of time before they got to Marion. Were it not for Indy’s intervention, the Nazi’s get the full headpiece and with it the full translation (the script initially included dialogue during the translation scene that indicated that anyone who saw the Ark being opened would be killed... hence he knew to keep his eyes shut). Therefore, Indy’s intervention deprived the Nazi’s of the critical piece of information that would have allowed them to succeed. The so-called plot hole is nothing more than the movie omitting a piece of clarifying information. Additionally, as the events of Raiders and Crusade prove that the Christian God ABSOLUTELY exists within the IJ universe, it is reasonable to assume that Indy is a necessary instrument of God to see his will carried out.

@Agills-Photography

3 жыл бұрын

@@wdsmkc what about the evil of Kali Ma though? I mean, the power of the Sankara stones and the powers granted to Mola Ram also prove that Kali absolutely exists

@brown22sugar25

3 жыл бұрын

@@Agills-Photography yeah there are several coexisting religions in Indiana Jones including aliens, but we don’t talk about that

@JACCO20082012

3 жыл бұрын

@@Agills-Photography I think Mola Ram even says something about using Kali to destroy the Christian God as they take over.

Indiana Jones to me is what every good grandad wants to have happened in their lives when they're sat telling their grandkids stories about their life. It's not about beating the bad guys. They are peripheral. It's just about a guy finding his way through a whole load of crazy circumstances on his adventures which one day he is going to really exaggerate to his grandkids. The point is that no matter how bad ass you are, there are always things out of your control.

@TheGeorgeD13

3 жыл бұрын

Yup. My favorite stories to tell people are the ones where I was on the periphery of some crazy shit that was going on and I was along for the ride.

@SpikeTheBear

3 жыл бұрын

Holy shit this was so well put, could never have said it better myself

@sleepdeep305

3 жыл бұрын

To be honest, that's what I always thought the true plot of the movie was

@pieterboelen2862

3 жыл бұрын

@@sleepdeep305 To be honest, you may be exactly right there!

@williamozier918

3 жыл бұрын

You should watch the YOung Indiana Jones Chronicles. Every episode begins with an old man wearing a fedora, and someone always says something about history, and then the old an pipes up "let me tell you a story...'. It's actually an awesome show, and Old Indy is actually a fascinating take on the character.

Is it a plot hole that the avengers fail to stop Thanos in avengers infinity war? If the avengers weren’t in the movie, Thanos still would have snapped 1/2 the universe.

@kashsmith6181

3 жыл бұрын

No. A plot hole is when something in the narrative contradicts something else that the narrative had already established. Something not changing the outcome is not a plot hole.

@creed8712

3 жыл бұрын

The contradiction in infinity war is why Doctor strange didn’t destroy the time stone when he had the chance since endgame shows us that it didn’t matter to its survival which I assume will be going into in doctor strange 2. Regardless if he had destroyed the stone Thanos wouldn’t have had the ability to get all the stones in the first place

@kashsmith6181

3 жыл бұрын

@@creed8712 I don't think he could destroy it. The only reason Wonda could destroy the mind stone, as stated in the movie, was because her power came from it.

@creed8712

3 жыл бұрын

@@kashsmith6181 I assume that’s how it works for all of them? The stones were created, destroying the time stone would be localizing its power into rewinding the stone itself back in time to before creation.

@kashsmith6181

3 жыл бұрын

@@creed8712 They exist outside of the multiversal creation. Placed into each universe by the Celestials who receive them from the god mines. Plus, they can't actually be destroyed in the conventional sense. Rather, they change forms. It is hinted that Wanda is now like a living embodiment of the mind gem. But even disregarding all of this, I don't think mcu Strange really knew how to do it. It was Vision who realized Wanda could do it, but he literally had the mind stone as his mind. That's kind of a cheat.

In the second scenario, wouldn't more villains come looking for the first group who had their faces melted off, realized that the Ark did some gnarly shit, and then use it as a weapon? Indy being there prevented it from eventually being picked up by a group looking for the dead Nazis.

@ethancoffey3491

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly!! This here is a plot hole in nerdstalgics video

@darkmyro

3 жыл бұрын

Wouldn't they still come looking for the people who died either way in that scenario? Either way a bunch of men went missing wouldnt that mean they send more to either find out what happened or find what them?

@existentialturnip9129

3 жыл бұрын

That has been my thought exactly since hearing of that stupid quote from that stupid show, kudos for posting it first

@chompythebeast

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I don't understand how this is being missed. If Indiana hadn't been there and survived, the Ark would still have likely fallen into enemy hands. And it was obviously weaponizable, or at least it certainly seems like it was―just open it in front of an army or a city that doesn't know to look away and you could presumably do a lot of damage

@theskyisteal8346

3 жыл бұрын

Toosoo but since Indy was there to take Ark away, that troop that stumbles across several piles of melted Nazi doesn't have the Ark waiting for them and all they know is that something was powerful enough and mad enough at the Nazis to wreak that much destruction.

One thing I’ve learned in recent years is a lot of people don’t know what a plot hole actually is.

@sean_mccadden

3 жыл бұрын

Basically to a lot of people classify plot hole to be a narrative that doesn’t fit inside the “whats expected” box of mainstream media. Just like how fans of alternative music genres always accuse bands of “selling out” whenever they start making music outside the “whats expected” box even if they are just exploring their creativity. In conclusion people are afraid of having their expectations challenged.

@kasuraga

3 жыл бұрын

yeah, plot hole would be like some important side character in a film just vanished half way through with no explanation. Indy being useless isn't a plot hole. If anything it's a trope.

@the-engneer

3 жыл бұрын

This is so true, and with that being said the bar is dropping lower and lower for film's every year. I can't remember the last time I saw a film even half as memorable as an Indiana Jones re run

@DTX0217

3 жыл бұрын

“There's a plot hole right there in your own thinking, for you have failed to establish what a plot hole even is, so how could you possibly know whether or not anyone else actually knows what a plot hole is or if they're using the term correctly? Checkmate, know-it-all.” 🙃🤪

@jasonblalock4429

3 жыл бұрын

Patrick H Willems did a good video on the topic of (not) plot holes a couple years ago, if you haven't seen it.

Indiana Jones... only a true badass can survive an atomic blast in a fridge

@red_TORITO

3 жыл бұрын

Holy shit it's kim Jong-un!

@TheRealJackArthur

3 жыл бұрын

Of all the people to comment about nuclear warheads... 😂

@asdasd-ty9se

3 жыл бұрын

We don’t talk about the one that didn’t happen

@ziero1986

3 жыл бұрын

@@asdasd-ty9se Still better than Temple of Doom.

@megashark1013

3 жыл бұрын

@@ziero1986 Thank God someone mentioned how bad Temple of Doom was. Nostalgia is a powerful thing, but Jesus.

Indy saved the girl and got the ark back to the government for safe keeping. thats two things that the plot needs him for. 3 if you count making his son.

@dorisbove2210

3 жыл бұрын

Are you serious people like you are always so annoying. Indiana Jones never saved marion, indiana Jones did nothing but bring danger and trouble let alone Nazi's straight to marion and her bar and in fact it is marion ravenwood who shoots and killed nazi's and saved indiana Jones life over and over again so really why don't you watch and talk about the really movie not your fan fiction

@lordbritannic

3 жыл бұрын

He told her to keep her eyes closed. There by saving her. He also saved her after she was kidnapped.

@ZombieBarioth

3 жыл бұрын

@Doris Bove The Nazi's more likely than not would have eventually tracked Marion down looking for the medallion, if it wasn't for Indy she would have had to deal with them all on her own. Being caught up in his antics actually increased her odds of survival and in a roundabout way saved her life.

@xraystudios3693

3 жыл бұрын

@@dorisbove2210 Fan fiction? Indy saves Marion who was obviously going to be killed back in the raven bar. Indy saves Marion about 4 times and maybe even more (raven bar, once in Cairo, on in the well of souls and one at the end of the movie when he tells her to close her eyes), while Marion saves him twice. And yes he is right, Indy is responsible for giving the ark to the US, as the Nazis would have sent another team to recover the ark after the first stopped communicating.

@johnwotek3816

3 жыл бұрын

@@dorisbove2210 "Indiana Jones never saved marion" Last time I checked, nazi were about to burn her face with a hot piece of metal, until Indy showed up and stopped them. "indiana Jones did nothing but bring danger and trouble let alone Nazi's straight to marion and her bar" Nazi would have eventually tracked her down, since she had a crucial element to find the ark. Without Indy, she would have been killed and the nazi would have the full medaillon, with all the intel needed about the height of the stick. Which mean they would have found the ark by themselves. They would have opened it, killed everyone present at the ceremony, then the ark would sat there for a while, until the nazi sent someone to check why the whole place wasn't responding... then taken the ark back, leaving open the possibility they finally control it one day, or adding to the long list of archeological artefact destroyed by the nazi during the war. " in fact it is marion ravenwood who shoots and killed nazi's and saved indiana Jones life over and over again" They kinda spend their whole time saving each other. They both kicked ass.

I was worried there for a few minutes, but I'm glad this turned out in favor of Indy

@AxxLAfriku

3 жыл бұрын

OH NOOOOOO!!! Most people agree that my vids are the worst on KZread. I agree to disagree. Please agree to disagree with the haters, dear, ip

@issastorm

3 жыл бұрын

@@AxxLAfriku shhhhhh, no one cares

@etherealicer

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, hail to the rapist, grave robber and murderer who destroyed more archeological sites than the taliban. Marion: I was a child... it was wrong and you knew it Indy: I did what I did, you don't need to be happy about. According to the script, Marion is 25 in the movie and they had a sexual relationship 10 years before. And yes, Lucas/Spielberg and Kasdan are on record that they purposedly decided that she had to be younger than 16 back when they had the affair. Just saying, him being useless is probably the least troublesom part of that movie.

@xraystudios3693

3 жыл бұрын

@@etherealicer That's George Lucas' weird fucking side, he can make good stories sometimes, but he always fucks something up. I think if they thought more about this backstory I'm sure they would have changed it. Spielberg himself went against it in a 1978 meeting between him, George and Kasdan. Personally I prefer to simply ignore this because not only it is completely irrelevant to any of the story and its just there to make him and Marrion have an uneasy relationship for about 2-3 minutes, but also because it doesn't fit Indy's character. I consider it as a deleted scene.

@Ironworthstriking

3 жыл бұрын

@@AxxLAfriku they’re worse than you can possibly imagine.

I think the movies are more about the adventures of Indiana jones rather than whether or not he's a vital piece to the puzzle

@nenmaster5218

2 жыл бұрын

I random-recommend Hbomberguy, cause why not? He's the best social commentary i know and i know a lot of youtubers. Oh, and just throwing in Sci Man Dan cause why not. He's fun.

Isn’t Indy’s arc in the first film related to him actually believing the religious stuff? When Marcus visits his house he calls it mumbo jumbo but by the end he makes sure he and Marianne both keep their eyes shut because of the dangers.

@samuelwallace2782

3 жыл бұрын

The funniest thing is that technically Temple of Doom takes place before Raiders, so Indy is spouting off about superstitious mumbo-jumbo. Meanwhile he saw a man's heart get ripped out of his chest and the magic Stones bring life back to a village only a few years prior

@JainaSoloB312

3 жыл бұрын

@@samuelwallace2782 Hahaha, that's awesome

@anrick1362

3 жыл бұрын

@@samuelwallace2782 I hate that. Temple could have easily been written as taking place in between Raiders and Crusade. I see no good reason for it to be a prequel.

@FedoraMark

3 жыл бұрын

@@samuelwallace2782 now that’s the REAL plot hole

@elijahblechman8633

3 жыл бұрын

Better safe then sorry.

Remember, the Germans found the ark because the spy guy got the medallion burned into his hand, the side that said the location. But the side of the medallion that talked about the ceremony needed to open the ark wasn't burned into his hand. Without Indiana Jones, the Germans get the full medallion and know about the ceremony and location, they win

@lunaranz8765

3 жыл бұрын

Technically, they didn’t even know the location of the Ark in the first place. Because their staff was the wrong height

@joshwokojance3790

3 жыл бұрын

@@lunaranz8765 this. Indy was the one who found the ark because he knew the correct length of the staff. The Nazis were digging in the wrong place and only found it because they saw Indy's team digging in another place.

@markchapman6800

2 жыл бұрын

@@joshwokojance3790 But, as @Gaming the Wolf already pointed out, the Nazis would have known the correct length to make the staff if they'd had the whole medallion rather than just the scar on Toht's hand, and they would have had that if Indy hadn't been there to stop them from murdering Marion and grab it.

@jamescampbell39

Жыл бұрын

@@markchapman6800 Historically according to the Bible you could not touch the ark unless you were wearing special ceremonial clothing and those who were the priest were of the tribe of Levi IE Leviticus there line was the hereditary priest who to care of the ark transported it and when need be protected it. There was about as much historical accuracy in the movie that would not fill a flea's codpiece. It was not Hitler who sent out expeditions to look for such things it was Josef Gerbels the propaganda minister and leader of the Arminuber the Nazis' Scientific Division. Hitler hated the occult and Christianity he considered one a crutch and the other a weakness Gerbels wanted the grail and the ark to use as symbols for his Aryan knightly order based on the Teutonic Knights. Tanis had been discovered in the late 19th century so that part was total bunkum about the Nazis finding Tanis Getting back to the ark those two soldiers who removed the lid would have been electrocuted or struck dead on the spot and Bellouq doing the ritual nothing would have happened since he was not of the line of Levi and anyhow the only time a ritual was performed was when the priest sprinkled blood on the two cherubims also known as the mercy seats for someone sin penance and it had to be animal blood lambs or birds that sort of thing according to Judaic history.

But: "They're digging in the _wrong place."_ Calling Marion an "innocent woman" is rather reductive. She was the holder of the medallion that was the head of the Staff of Ra, after all. Indy didn't lead the Nazis to her, but rather *they led him.* He didn't put her in harm's way; her father did, and she stayed there by her own agency. While she _might_ have been able to keep the medallion out of their hands, Indy's presence when they attacked ensured that they only had half of the inscription. Scenario 2 would have them having both sides of the medallion, and they would have had the same warning about not viewing it's contents as Indy did and thus, _wouldn't_ have melted. Most people arguing that this swashbuckler hero in this swashbuckling movie isn't necessary have forgotten a few key scenes and pieces of dialogue.

@neskyz4259

Жыл бұрын

Boy, you said it! Anyone who claims Indy was “useless” or “pointless” truly doesn’t understand the concept of the movie.

Yes but we need a badass hero to view the story through.

@tobybartels8426

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly! It's not that he drives the plot, he's the guy that the plot happens to. He's the badass everyman.

@issastorm

3 жыл бұрын

I wouldn't exactly call him a hero, but yes we need a bad ass to view it through

@PhantasmPhoton

3 жыл бұрын

the ass and how good or bad it is, is very important

“He’s just a plot device. He’s meant to be expendable.” “Not to me.”

@awookieandagerman

3 жыл бұрын

This reference was an unexpected surprise, but a welcome one.

Indiana Jones is such a good character because ultimately he's a human being. Throughout all four movies he often shows his vulnerable side. We all like Indy because he feels real. Maybe he doesn't have the biggest impact in series but in real life when we do something good, do we always end up winning?

If the ark was found, every person on Earth who opened it would probably die, including people who had no idea what it was in the first place. At least with Indy, it was found, shipped to a warehouse and studied by "top men" who likely also eventually died due to curiosity.

@nenmaster5218

2 жыл бұрын

I random-recommend Hbomberguy, cause why not? He's the best social commentary i know and i know a lot of youtubers. Oh, and just throwing in Sci Man Dan cause why not. He's fun.

Indy will always be my favorite screw up action hero He was my childhood hero as a little kid

@nenmaster5218

2 жыл бұрын

Really? Your favorite? Of all? Well, anyhow, topic-switch: I random-recommend Hbomberguy, cause why not? He's the best social commentary i know and i know a lot of youtubers. Oh, and just throwing in Sci Man Dan cause why not. He's fun.

This kind of reminds me that all main villains kill themselves in Raimi's Spider-Man trilogy

@DTX0217

3 жыл бұрын

**anxiously starts pondering whether the villain in Doctor Strange 2 is going to end up offing himself in like manner also**

@exeggutivejudge3747

3 жыл бұрын

Did Sand-man die in Spider-man 3??

@cegalo12

3 жыл бұрын

@@exeggutivejudge3747 He wasn’t a villain. He was more like... a man with bad luck:(

@SWAHswah-tm7sn

3 жыл бұрын

@@exeggutivejudge3747 no he just let him self be taken into the wind

@DTX0217

3 жыл бұрын

Exeggutive Nehemiah, no. But he ultimately wasn't the main villain. Peter forgives him and lets him off the hook. But Brock kills himself, and if that's not good enough for you, Harry dies in the fight (for good measure, I suppose).

I feel like the argument is the same one as "We all die so life is pointless." Like, yeah, you're right. But what you do with the interiim is the point of the exercise.

He saved Marian's life. If he wasn't there, she would've been melted.

Indiana Jones is also a mediocre at best archeologist even for the 1930s and 40s. He doesn't document, excavate, or photograph the objects. Everything he finds gets confiscated by the US gov (not how it works here) and its definitely illicit artifact trafficking

@lunaranz8765

3 жыл бұрын

He’s a grave robber with a degree in archaeology. Even Harrison Ford points that out

Indiana Jones watching this: *Nerdstalgic, why did it have to be Nerdstalgic?*

I think the biggest flaw in this theory is the endgame, while he may be useless for the near entirety of the movie, he is the reason the Ark is recovered from the Germans. Without Indy they keep the Ark, presumably giving them the invincibility. (Supposing they learn to not crack it open)

10 year old me: Finds out Santa isn’t real when I find the roll of gift wrap in my parents’ room 23 year old me: Finds out my childhood hero was useless through a Nerdstalgic video

In fairness, Marian insists on going with Indie. “YOU NEED ME INDIANA JONES! YOU NEED ME!”

@dorisbove2210

3 жыл бұрын

That is because indiana Jones caused marion ravenwood' s bar to burn down along with all her money so marion yelled to indiana Jones until I get back my $5,000 you got more then you bargained for I am your God Dam partner so marion had no choice but to go with indiana Jones so it is indiana Jones fault

@ghost-maid3174

3 жыл бұрын

@@dorisbove2210 he didn’t burn it on purpose he was protecting her from the nazis when the fight caused the fire

@Rikalonius

3 жыл бұрын

@@dorisbove2210 If Indy hadn't been there, Marion would have been slowly and painful murdered by Todt.

This video encapsulates why I love Indiana Jones so much and why it bugs the hell out of me when characters don't have true flaws that end up with actual consequences.

Me* reading the title *... and I took that personally.

You're forgetting one crucial element: Marion. Indy goes to Marion because her father, his mentor, Abner Ravenwood was the leading expert on the ark. She is the one with the medallion and it would have been only a matter of time before Belog would have tracked her down (Indy just sped that up). Had Indy not gotten involved, Marion would have been killed either in the bar by creepy glasses guy or even worse. So NO, Indy wasn't ENTIRELY useless. Just MOSTLY useless.

@lunaranz8765

3 жыл бұрын

Belog? I think it’s Belloq (not trying to be rude, sorry if it comes across that way)

To quote Kreia, "It matters not the destination, what matters is the journey."

@thetwopointslow

3 жыл бұрын

Pure pazaak.

I have loved Raiders and Last Crusade for as long as I can remember. John Williams is absolutely the reason I'm a musician and composer.

If I've learned anything over the last few years, it's that a lot of people don't really know what a plot hole is.

Here before the title changes. Also this argument has always been interesting to me but I’ve always despised talking about it because I originally heard it from the Big Bang Theory, which I Dislike.

In the second instance, it might have taken longer for the villains to find the ark. Then, the time would cause something different to happen, such as maybe hitler opening the ark with them. In any case the outcome would be different without Indy

@jasonblalock4429

3 жыл бұрын

Doubtful. Belloq would have almost certainly been the Nazis' lead archaeologist either way, and he was quite insistent on the test run before shipping it to Berlin.

@cinemagoose

3 жыл бұрын

@@jasonblalock4429 yes but there might have been more people, even officials, present without the threat of a crazy guy with a bullwhip.

In Temple of Doom Short Round could have saved those kids all by himself.

@blakdeth

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah Rhort Round did most of the work. Although I doubt he would have wound up in the middle of India though if Indiana hadn't brought him onto the plane. But I think we can all agree that Willie is a waste of space.

@DTX0217

3 жыл бұрын

tommy flores Yeah, but a _SEXY waste of space._ 😛

@akselevensen2763

3 жыл бұрын

I recently rewatched temple of doom and I now love it in the same way i love the room. It's hilariously bad.

@blakdeth

3 жыл бұрын

@@akselevensen2763 what do you mean. The only bad thing about it is how annoying willie is... and how inaccurate their depiction of india is... and the actor who plays short round isn't experienced enough to take emotional scenes seriously... and the scene where indy and willie are flirting is bad... and it opens with a musical number that doesn't serve the plot at all. Actually yeah i get your point. I still love it for nostalgic reasons though.

@akselevensen2763

3 жыл бұрын

@@blakdeth Yeah, don't get me wrong. It's still fun to watch. It's just that now, when Mola Ram fights Indy and escapes through a trapdoor that has no reason for being there, I get to lose my shit laughing.

And that's why I love Indy so much he's no superhero he's a human he's flawed and most importantly he's relatable

The problem with this idea is at the end of the movie, the Not-zees still have control of the Ark rather than Indy taking it back to the US. Also, the baddies would have found Marion, likely killed her, and taken the headpiece and found the Ark faster.

So... its the same thing as in uncharted where nate always make the bad guy find the secret treasure

@timseguine2

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I mean Nate from Uncharted basically is a reimagining of the Indiana Jones archetype.

@pcm1011

3 жыл бұрын

Nate is a combination between Indy and Lara Croft, which is kinda ironic bc Uncharted then became the main influence for the Tomb Raider reboot. Full circle

@timseguine2

3 жыл бұрын

@@pcm1011 Yeah, totally. I remember some people calling it "Dude Raider" when it first came out. Then when the Tomb Raider reboot came out years later, people were like "This plays a lot like Uncharted". It's like, no shit Sherlock, of course it does.

@alexanderh9642

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, it's almost the exact same, and both of them are better than their villains in the same way too. The villains in these two instances are always working to exploit whatever is going on. Be it a weapon or immeasurable wealth or just straight power. Indy is doing it for Fortune and Glory, so he says, but its really for knowledge and the thrill of it. If it was really fortune, he wouldn't be a teacher. Drake is also looking for fortune and glory, but always fails not because he's bad but because he knows not to go to far. He takes what he can, but never more than that

That's what I love about Indiana jones. Even the he starts a snowball effect, he is a regular guy trying to satisfy his natural curiousity and/or trying to stop evil. Yes his actions often make matters easier for the bad guys in the long run, but for us the viewers, and for Indy, it's not always about the result. Its about the adventure and the journey. You see indy pretty much always trying to do what is right. He may grumble about it, but his moral compass is still on point. In a way, Indy is a super simple protagonist, yet at the same time he is a very deep complex character. And thats one of the reasons the Indy films hold a special place in my heart.

Background music on this made me think I was getting a call on Teams

why did you discard path three: "They find the McGuffin, weaponized and win"? Nobody know that a priori......

And then he completely changes the title good job man

Indiana Jones is a staple of my childhood. To me it’s doesn’t matter if he is useless- what matters is that he has heart. There is something inherently charming about a teacher going on crazy adventures. I think everyone has had that one teacher who has told them crazy stories about his or her life and you always wanted to hear more.

This Book is Full of Spiders (the sequel to John Dies at the End) has David talking about his girlfriend saying, "she pointed out to me that if Indiana Jones had just stayed home, Raiders of the Lost Ark would have turned out exactly the same way-the Nazis would have opened the ark and gotten vaporized." The book was released a year before this episode of the Big Bang Theory.

"Uselsess"

Actually after the Ark gets opened Indie calls the american army witch recovers the ark. If he wasn’t there the Ark would have been opened, a german regiment dies, the german army would look up what happened and recover the ark and maybe win the war?

This is an absolutely delightful, uplifting and completely logical analysis. Thank you so much!

@radagast7200

3 жыл бұрын

Just wait until you learn how old Marianne was when Jones first 'encountered' her... Jones is a child abuser, according the script. Learning this killed the whole franchise for me... what was Spielberg thinking...

@the-engneer

3 жыл бұрын

@@radagast7200 what are you talking about?

@shadowpat810

3 жыл бұрын

@@radagast7200 you are thinking too much bro

@radagast7200

3 жыл бұрын

@@the-engneer indy abused Marianne when she was like 13 and he was like 26. Do the math... "I was just a child!" she tells him.... her character is 23 in the movie... this happened 10 years prior... its all laid out in the script itself, you just have to pay attention.

@the-engneer

3 жыл бұрын

@@radagast7200 I feel like you're putting more thought into a fictional character than the person who created it

The problem with the opening of the arc is called "Deus Ex-Machina", but is done well, because is actually God changing the curse of the story. There's an article exploring the arc of Indy during the trilogy, and I read it, I went back, and rewatch the movies with that in mind and the all experience is mind-blowing. But is mind-blowing because a character, a fascinating character that evolves during the events of the movies. With 4 movies, Indy evolves more than any MCU character in 10 movies (or another modern blockbuster) but that only happens because Harrison Ford is the biggest special effect of those movies. If Harrison Ford wasn't Indy, maybe Spielberg/Lucas tried something different, but they said that Harrison was allways very concern in transform Indy in a real person - all the injuries, dirt was Harrison Ford ideia and some quotes - the mileage one, an the making this up as I go. He didn't want to play a superhero. Nice video.

In Raiders, Indyvgets the girl and gives the government what they asked him for. In Temple of doom he doesn't get to keep the stones but he gets the girl and saves the slave children. In Last Crusade, doesn't save the girl who is bad anyway but he finally reconciles with his father, who finally gets his priorities straight: he choses his son's life over the mcguffin that made him neglect him. In Crystal Skull, he gets the girl back, saves her father and develops a relationship with his son (there may be more, In don't remember, this movie lacks the "rewatchability factor" of the rest of the series). Plus, he is great at surviving and has a lot of adventures to tell his grandsons (in the TV show, I guess).

Isn't that also how the movie starts? When he gets the golden item, it still gets taken by another guy. He literally helps him acquire it.

Im glad you stated “Raiders isn’t the Ark’s journey, it’s Indy’s”. The whole time I watched this, that’s all I was thinking. The Ark, whether Indy was involved or not isn’t what matters, it’s Indy’s adventure that’s the main focal point.

Good video, and I agree entirely on the importance of Indy's journey in Raiders. I do, however, disagree on how things would have played out if he hadn't been present. Yes, the end result would still have been the same with the Nazis burning upon opening the Ark, but how it got to that point would have been different than you have conjectured, and there is only one way it plays out without Indy involved. You see, the only reason the Nazis were digging in the wrong place is because they didn't have the headpiece to the Staff of Ra. All they had was a duplicate made from the image seared into the hand of the man who tried to grab it in Nepal, meaning their duplicate only had writing on one side (the side that was burnt into the guy's hand), so the staff they were using wasn't the right length. In the hypothetical scenario where Indy never goes on this adventure. The Nazi's would still have gone to Nepal to retrieve the headpiece from Marion. Without Indy present, the bar wouldn't have gone up in flames, but the Nazis would have approached Marion and either tortured her until she gave up the headpiece or just killed her and gone through everything she owned until they found it. And remember, she was wearing it as a medallion until Indy showed up asking about it; it was only after that exchange that she took it off and hung it around that candle holder. Without Indy having showed up to ask about it, she would probably still have been wearing it when they interrogated her, so they would definitely have gotten it, and I suspect Marion would have been killed even if she had given it up. With the true headpiece, the Nazis would have found the Ark sooner, and Belloq, in his hubris, would still have insisted upon opening it before delivering it to Berlin, thus all of those Nazis would have burned. But I guess even the end result is different, as in this scenario Indy isn't present to secure the Ark after what happens, so rather than being safely locked away in a top secret warehouse, it would just be sitting on a random Mediterranean island waiting for whatever hapless fool stumbles across it next. So, even though the end result for the Nazis is the same, Indy's presence was VERY important for anyone would visit that island later on.

That's literally the whole point. It's subversion of the "save the day" movie hero. Also, a plot hole is when something happens in the narrative that contradicts information already established in the narrative. Something not changing the outcome isn't a plot hole. A plot hole would be if Indy had taken a peak in the arc earlier and then later established the "don't look" rule.

Marion is the one who decided to come with him. He didn't put her in harm's way. That's my biggest gripe about this video, but solid logic. I like the video a lot. I'm always looking for Indiana Jones video essays or theory videos.

Search for this scene on youtube: 4:43 . Almost nothing happens visually, but the music brings a huge tension. So cool! =D

The whole point of the film is that Indy is only a hair removed from Belloq and just as foolhardy in his quest. What saves him in the end is realizing saving Marion is more important, and then having the reverence to not look at the ark. He's the only guy in that whole group to have figured that out.

If Indy wasn't there, they would've flewn out the arc with the plane, most likely directly to germany, where Hitler would've wanted to personally oversee the opening So... Indy saved Hitler

Hey man, what's the name of the song you used at 4:50?

@enzldavaractl8345

3 жыл бұрын

try checking the description, the song isn't mentioned there, but try anyway

@chgeri2232

3 жыл бұрын

@@enzldavaractl8345 Thanks, that was the first thing I tried.. Sadly Nerdstalgic doesn't seem to credit the music he uses in his videos :/ Not saying it's wrong that he doesn't do that, I'm sure he has a completely good source for his background music and supports the artists that make these beats, it'd just be useful information for people who want to listen to these songs in their own time.

Random Request. Talk about why The Raid's fighting choreography holds up so well compared to other Martial Arts films of its kind. Would be cool to see you talk on Martial Arts anything. Doesn't have to be that

I think the issue with path two is that the Nazi's that weren't there would question what happened to that big group that went for the ark, and likely there was a plan set that other Nazi's could follow up on. And happening upon the site with a bunch of exploded/melted/zapped in the chest Nazi's radiating out from the Ark of the Covenant, I imagine they could have inferred the Ark did it somehow and that they'd likely take it back, and possibly end up figuring out how to weaponize it and bam, Nazi's win the war. So it's a little convoluted, but there's DEFINITELY a strong possibility that over time, the Nazi's would find the ark (they'd realize their mistake likely in terms of the medallion) and then they'd eventually have no pressure from outside forces, so they could take their time learning how to use the ark, even if they go through several groups of nazis (or likely others as test subjects after seeing the first group), and eventually be in control of it by the end. So Jones and Marion are necessary.

OK, but Indy recovers the Ark after the Nazis open it. This is no small thing, because if a casual bypasser found it and opened it, they'd have their heads melted or something. He was sent to recover the Ark, and he did.

It's about the JOURNEY, Not the destination.

As an archeologist, he suceeds in retrieving the Arch, hence proving it exists. Without him, the Arch would either not be found, or lost (again) on that island, OR it gets retrieved by more cautious Nazis after all the events on the island.

I think the ultimate problem here is people look at the later Indiana Jones movies and think of him as a hero but just like often happens in movies that have multiple sequels spanning several years even decades they forget the original plot of the original movie which was basically he was just an archaeologist for a college looking for artifacts to put in museums maybe get a little profit from them that’s it he wasn’t actually trying to stop or save anything other than getting his hands on and finding and being the one who discovered that artifact

The movie is called Raiders of the Lost Ark. The "Indiana Jones and the..." part was added after sequels came out. The movie is about all of the raiders, it's just through Indy's point of view.

It’s kind of the same with the last crusade, if Indy wasn’t involved the nazis would have gotten his fathers journal, found the grail site and either wouldn’t have gotten through or not have been able to identify the real grail and even if they did they couldn’t escape with it

You should do a video going over the best episode of the big bang theory I would be interested to see what you have to say

@colincadena2120

3 жыл бұрын

the bath item gift hypothesis

@cornap1

3 жыл бұрын

@@colincadena2120 A classic! I also like the one with the robot arm and when they go stargazing

Indy using the Staff of Ra in the Map Room is the payoff to the setup where he explains to the Army intel guys how the thing worked it was the most exciting moment of Indy's life all his knowledge was put to good use it was thrilling for him and for us the audience.

If this was made today, everyone would be complaining about it. "This renders the character completely useless, he doe not drive the plot forward, he doesn't defeat the villain" That part of the audience needs the protagonist to do everything, and when he does, they complain the peotagonist didn't have a good supporting cast because he did everything.

I always felt the lack of agency was kinda the point. It was a struggle to do anything to prevent bad guys from playing with forces beyond the scope of man, this lack of agency is generally reflected when the bad guys plans fail because of that same reason: trying to control forces that are far beyond them. The fun is in the adventure, discovery, and suspense, the ending is normally a small hint at the sublime, or maybe cosmic irrelevancy if that makes more sense.

Now I would LOVE to see you cover the character of Nathan Drake from Uncharted as he's not only inspired by Indy (and Tomb Raider) but the writing in that game series is often seen as very well done (for a game). I would love to see your insights into that character and everything about the series.

The only reason Indy is "useless" in Raiders is because he refused to blow up the ark. And even then, the reason why the Nazis didn't send more people to recover the ark is because Indy called the US forces after the Nazis died to transport the ark back to the US. Also, the point of the movie isn't the end, it's the adventure, that's why it's 1 hour and 40 minutes long and not a 20 minute video with the last minutes of the story.

Wait I'm sorry. You have a P5 desktop background and you have yet to make a P5 video? I would absolutely love to see something in your style breaking down that game. Great video, this was a wonderful way to frame it!

I really like how this video played out. That's how I've always felt about the movies. Indiana Jones was always an inspiration to me because of how human his character was, and how he was able to succeed even with his mistakes.

The problem with scenario 1 is the Nazis were already coming for Marion. They would have acquired The Amulet and discovered the actual location of the Ark. Then they have all the time in the world to figure out how to weaponize it

Sometimes a story happens in the world around the protagonist, other times the story is character based. Sometimes both. Indiana jones is a medium to experience the journey, and finds the real secrets while getting away alive. Whether it changes anything is irrelevant, Indy is a fun charismatic character for the viewers. I was never a mega fan of the movies, but I feel like the most important thing to take away from all of this, is that it's a story.

I think if you take out Indie it leaves the ark outside for people to find. But with him it gets locked away forever. So the plot does change, but only a little bit.

The Gestapo were already looking for Marion before Indy got involved without him in the movie they would have tracked her down eventually. She would not have stayed safe.

This feels more like something on Film Theory than a Nerdstalgic video. Honestly, I'm not complaining.

One thing Indy does do in Raiders is he's the person who's alive at the Ark after it's opened so he can ensure it goes back to the states, if he wasn't there then it's possible the Nazis would just send more Nazis to collect the ark and figure out a way to use it in the war.

Indiana Jones is a great character. Movies from the last ten or so years had characters I forgot at the second the movie was over. They are all the same somehow, only a few exeptions. But noone is as iconic as Indy.

You basically just described why I love the uncharted series and specifically the character of Nathan Drake. A lot of these points can be cross referenced to either one. There was clearly a lot of Indy inspiration in Drake and they really tryed to turn him into Jones in uncharted 4 where he now uses a grapple hook much like Indy's whip and tried to turn him into a more relatable everyday guy as well. Much like Indy, your constantly reminded that Drake is a flawed human with over ambitious dreams, obsessive behaviors and real internal struggles. I think uncharted does work a bit better as they're games rather than film and really put you in the midst of the action but feel they're both great series overall.

I would love to see this again with each of the other movies . How important is Indy to Temple of Doom, Last Crusade, and Crystal Skull?

@the-engneer

3 жыл бұрын

Not crystal skull though. That film didn't happen as far as my depression for modern day media is concerned

Did this man really misspell ‘useless’ in the title ?

I agree that it's the entire point. He's a rogue. As in, standard D&D adventuring party rogue. He tries to do good and ends up causing trouble, only to steal the glory in the end anyway as luck just always seems to end up on his side. That's sort of what rogues do.

I'm glad you re-titled the video... 😅

@Ninten007

3 жыл бұрын

I'm assuming the original title (which I didn't see) explains a lot of these comments that seem like they clearly didn't watch the video through.

Indy is just straight up, the audience. No, his presence doesn't change the outcome of the narrative. But without him, there wouldn't _be_ one. Not only is he a Keanu-like figure to project one's fantasies on, as the the viewpoint character of the story, the person we're supposed to relate to whose lens we're experiencing everything, he _is_ the movie.

Dude you're too good. You manage to be intelligent and accurate in all your review and analysis, but still pay homage to these amazing movies

Its so nice of you to put AD in the end of the vid, that I watched AD even tho they probably dont deliver in my country :3

You are still the best video essayist on youtube

Actually in Part 2, the Nazis find the Arc, but they aren’t pressed or harried, they have plenty of time to bring the Arc where they want, and they can spend the rest of the war testing it and trying to gain access to the powers. They might be able to, at which point they could win the war. Indy’s presence at the final encounter allows him to recover the Arc and bring it back for storage and hiding in the US. While that’s not directly conveyed by the movie, that is certainly the consequence. No Indy, no Marion, no one to stop the Nazis from working their wiles on a recovered Arc. They can burn a few thousand dudes to try to figure it out.

The guide that dies in the beginning of the movie is Dr. Octopus.

Picard said “you can do everything right and still fail--that’s life.” He’s right that is life, but it’s also like Indian Jones: you can do everything wrong and still win. Life is a fickle fish, isn’t it.

So to punch and kick as many butts as possible is now useless!? Are U kidding me!?

If Indiana Jones had stayed at the university in "Raiders", Marion would have been killed by the Nazis, the Nazis would have found the Ark, and even though it would have killed them all when they opened it, then it would have remained in that deserted location where they opened for just anyone else to stumble upon rather than being safely returned to the United States and boxed up in storage where it can neither cause more trouble nor fall into the wrong hands. Indy was very integral to a more positive solution in "Raiders".

My go-to counter for "Indy does nothing in the movie" is "what happens to the arc when it's out in the middle of the desert after the baddies open it?" There's no reason to believe that soldiers didn't have someone in the German army know where they were testing it. Indy being there and surviving insures that the arc gets placed in containment and out of Hitler's hands.

For Raiders of the Lost Ark: Had Indiana Jones not been present, the Nazis would find the ark, open it, and then die, and then another group of Nazis would have come by later and taken the ark back to Berlin, whereupon it would have eventually been found by the Soviets in 1945, and then taken to a Soviet secret warehouse instead of an American one. So Indiana Jones prevented the ark from ever being in Berlin and later Moscow. For Temple of Doom: I honestly only saw this one a couple times because I thought it was by far the worst one. So I don't really remember the plot points enough to judge it. For the Last Crusade: It is questionable how necessary he was toward finding the location of the grail, it is likely that the Nazis might have found it via his father and Marcus anyway, but in the last scene, he makes it passed all of the traps and chooses the correct grail. This is something that would have taken the Nazis a lot longer to do on their own. And they would have likely all died when the place collapsed if they did end up finding the correct grail and tried to take it out. SO in essence, Indiana Jones saved his father and Marcus, both of whom would have likely been killed by the Nazis at some point had he not been there. For the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull: I never actually saw it.

However, getting out of there with the main character not influencing the final result of the story, breaks one of the main questions about characters taking part in a story, those being: why (insert character name)? What's (insert character name) objective? What (insert character name) adds to the story? What does (insert character name) achieve? And the last ones are the real problem with the Indiana Jones character, what does he add and achieve that the story wouldn't have without him? Well, he's a fun character to follow, ok, but in what way does he affect the story? Oh, none? Oh, ok he creates problems for some innocent people, sure that is a great impact in a fallen hero story, but that's not what we're looking at, is it? Well, at last, he gets out of there with a fun adventure story to tell, but it's on you to decide if that's enough to make an protagonist out of it, personally, I think you could keep his everyman character and still give him a bigger purpose on the story.