I think when Blizzard refers to Delves as a new "Evergreen" system, they are really just trying to emphasize that Delves are NOT simply an exclusive feature for The War Within expansion like Island Expeditions or Torghast were for their respective expansions.

I think that Battle pets, battlegrounds , arenas and transmogrification are evergreen things because they don't change, just get more added. Raids, dungeons an delves are evergreen Systems, because they change, but the playstyle is the same. You can expect new raids and dungeons every expansion. Not evergreen things are artifact weapons, covenants, garrisons, etc.

Delves is just Torghast with a new lick of paint with less powers.

Maybe the concept of delves, a mini dungeon with an escort that can be multiple roles to support the character, is going to be "evergreen".

I don’t think this really works as a criticism. As soon as the Delve system is in a good place it will probably become more of a template for future delve design. Future delves will require significantly less development after they have a template for what does and doesn’t work for a delve. They’ll require significantly less development than creating an entirely new system from scratch. Unless Blizzard stops hiring people and doesn’t gain any new subscribers I don’t think they’ll have to worry about too many evergreen systems.

@TheAccolonn

2 ай бұрын

Yet, that isn't the case for dungeons and they have had the same template for dungeons since day 1 of WoW. They still require significant development and dev teams to work on them since you're dealing with balancing, ensuring all classes, existing and new, can compete, making sure they are fresh and new every single time, because it was never built to be a final form system but a constantly reoccurring system. What to you is the difference between Raids, Dungeons and Delves, unless of course your argument is, Blizzard can half ass Delves cause ya know, casual content.

I think they should do what GW2 is. Every expansion and base game run parallel. WoW builds on top with expansions making the last obsolute. Have all zones scale max level. Ill do Durotar for the lawls.

If they add a system like player housing, they can generate its own revenue.

I would include the whole roulette system and gear currency a sort of evergreen system in ffxiv because it largely doesn't change. The currency name might and new dungeons/raids/trials are added as they are created (patches, expansions) but the general concept stays the same in how players utilize it. Sure there's work to make the new raids/trials/dungeons but that work was already done before it gets added to roulettes. Same with Trusts / Duty Support, to be honest. As a player over time I can log in and utilize the same system I'm familiar with but to experience new things.

I'd like to preface by saying I am very excited about this. My friends and I are going to have an absolute ball. All the mounts and mogs have me excited as a collector, too. However, I don't know how I feel about some of the very sought-after mounts I have spent years farming to get suddenly being available for a currency. It's not about gate-keeping. It's about souring all the time I spent to earn them. Now, I have no idea how long it will take to earn enough currency to purchase them, so maybe it will be enough to take quite an effort. This is nowhere near enough to ruin my experience with this mode, and I am very much looking forward to it.

I would like to see Bliz allow us to earn a permanent upgradeable armor set that will last through future content. You would still get armor drops but it would be both cosmetic and incremental upgrades that would scale based on the difficulty of the content. Everyone one can earn the upgrades based on the content they do, obviously Raids, and Mythic would be the fastest path, other content, you can still get there but slower. They could use the same concept with housing. You can continually build your housing, mount trophies and invite friends into your home. Spend 15 minutes with your friends in one of your houses to get a 2 hour buff.

I'm subbed & have notifications on, yet I'm not seeing ANY of your videos in my sub box...

You're definitely nitpicking definitions here. You are arguing "evergreen systems" aren't evergreen because the content itself isn't. "evergreen systems" are the SYSTEMS in place they keep reusing/re-implementing and become a staple of the game. In a development sense, it makes sense. You get the tech down pat, you create the design docs and process for delves, you get your asset use parameters in order, and from there you just copy/paste the building blocks to create new ones. It's not the same as creating a new system from the ground up and trying to design/balance it every expansion like artifact weapons, HoA, etc. It's a glorified map creator/editor with set design limitations. Now sure, there are some aspects that need to be "redesigned" or created for each new delve/season of delves, but that's the case for most evergreen content when they get a new addition to the system, even in FFXIV.

I can't understand why they don't just remix island expeditions with the AI NPC buddy system. Obviously assets & enemy mobs would need to be used from each new expansion but islands were good just implemented badly. The almost 0 chance to lose being one major drawback. The island environment wouldnt always fit obviously but that could fairly easily be changed to cavern, forrest, tower, ship or underwater areas depending on the current expansion aesthetic.

@jakubpelikan2393

2 ай бұрын

No Islands were terrible period.

Your point and your concerns are absolutely right and valid! My guess is that delves are as evergreen as dungeons, and Blizzard just refers to systems as evergreen if they can come back every expansion, unlike hero powers that were dropped entirely. My example for that is that they said they were building an evergreen talent system for DF but they are changing it for TWW and it will likely change again after that. My guess is that the underlying system is evergreen and allows those features to last beyond a single expansion

@keithb6344

2 ай бұрын

If Hero Talents were in a different UI, I don't think people would think that. Hero Talents can be evergreen and they can just keep adding new ones. Talents can be evergreen and they can just keep tweaking them. Both can be evergreen on their own. Just because they are in the same interface doesn't mean one is replacing the other.

@KingMidgardsormr

2 ай бұрын

Hero talents aren't being dropped after the war within. They are a permanent feature.

@Ghostalking

2 ай бұрын

@@KingMidgardsormr hero power doesn’t refer to the new talent system but to the borrowed power system that was introduced back in MOP with the cape, Legion with the artifact and BFA with the heart of azeroth. each of which was dismissed at the end of the expansion

@KingMidgardsormr

2 ай бұрын

@@Ghostalking Hero power may have been referring to something in MoP, but I didn't play that expansion I skipped it due to school. But I have been playing excessively since legion and not once have I heard of hero power. It was called artifact power and artifact weapons.

You're using a different definition of evergreen from Blizzard.

@TheAccolonn

2 ай бұрын

There's only 1 definition, anything else is not evergreen.

I think you missed the boat on this one. I don't think you have all the information. I agree with what you defined as evergreen. I understand the concern. I just not sure from what I've seen thus far, that it applies to delves yet. From what little I've heard, these were just the introducion or first couple lvl's that taught players how it worked. I haven't done an Alpha build in a long time, and havn't played this one, so maybe I understood it wrong. I think all feedback will only help make WoW a better game. As always have a great day all!!!

@TheAccolonn

2 ай бұрын

How could I miss the boat? I don't need to see them all to know that in their current iteration they are just a shorter dungeon with flexible groupings, fewer bosses, more puzzles. Their blue post confirms what they are and that, by definition isn't evergreen, instead it's an active seasonal system that will require constant development. I have no issue with it but it will limit the amount of similar system that can be created.

@claytonbroulik8575

2 ай бұрын

@@TheAccolonn I am going to double down on this one bud. I guess I'm more hung up on the definitions used. I don't think they match. I don't know much about Delves. I do understand the evergreen concept. I think your explanation was clear. I would have to rewatch Blizzcon to see if they said "features that are like" or features that are". I think they are more apples and oranges in that they are fruit and not the same, but simalar systems. I think delves are more like torgahst than you have been lead to believe even if I havn't seen one yet. Thanks for reply :)

The argument you made for housing also works for delves. I really do not see the issue here. Feels like you are confusing the framework of the system with the content.

@TheAccolonn

2 ай бұрын

No, it doesn't. Once the housing system is built you need little to no new development on it. All assets already exist since you made them for the new expansion, so you simply add them to loot tables and since the engine already allows housing, players can use them to build their homes. If you have to continually build twelve new delves every expac then suddenly you need a full dungeon level team to make delves every expansion. I do not see how this is in any way comparable.

Would not call Bozja and Eureka ever green....sure you can continue to do them to obtain their rewards but theyre the deadest content in the game. its very difficult to get it done due to how they arent included in the dungeon pool and theres no max level reward for doing them on their own.

@TheAccolonn

2 ай бұрын

They are literally the prime example of evergreen, people still run them how many years later. You'd refuse to call it evergreen only if you don't know what evergreen means.

@guinness12691

2 ай бұрын

@@TheAccolonn I wasn't trying to come across as argumentative. I feel that I do know what evergreen means and I know that Eureka, Bojza while both are still played neither are part of a sustainable system with progress that is carried forward into new content similar to blizz's borrowed power systems. That's just my understanding and perspective.

Ok man now your just being nitpicky over the term, of course the delves we get now aren't gonna be the "it" thing forever but the system of delves are evergreen so you can not say they are wrong.

@TheAccolonn

2 ай бұрын

It's not evergreen, it's seasonal and it has limitations. I'm not nitpicking anything, you're just refusing to hear any feedback because you perceive it to be negative, it's strange how conversations aren't allowed anymore.

@TakaChan569

2 ай бұрын

@@TheAccolonn How is the feature itself not considered evergreen, at the end of the day it's just mini dungeons(slightly more interesting imo). The delves themselves may not stick around but as a feature it will is all i was saying, i don't think anyone had the idea that the ones we would get now would always be relevant so there was no need to point that out.