I have never in my 70 years on this planet heard a handful of people dive this deep into the structures of humanity and life itself. Thanks Nate. We need a billion more folks like yourself and Dan!!!

@rolfvanharen

Жыл бұрын

true that

@tuckerbugeater

Жыл бұрын

The people in charge depressed the majority by using a series of tactics. And now they want to turn back time? Nietzsche knew it was over 150 years ago.

@beingnonbeingincludesexistence

Жыл бұрын

I agree! I also would recommend to Watch David bohm and Krishnamurti, they probably have delved the deepest in the nature/structure of humanity and life/consciousness, Daniel schmachtenberger has learned alot from them.

@beingnonbeingincludesexistence

Жыл бұрын

Also Krishnamurti and David bohm had a conversation with 2 other scientists, Rupert Sheldrake (biologist) and David hidley (psychiatrist) it is a 4 part conversation but it is absolute gold you won't find dialogues like these on the internet anymore.

@mosaadghoneim2117

Жыл бұрын

Totally agree from Egypt,✔️✔️✔️

I don't think I've heard Daniel say the same thing in the same way twice. And I think I'm up to 3 days of Schmachtenberger watch time.

I had to grin at the many attempts by Nate to force the conversation to AI when clearly Dan was carefully laying the groundwork to ensure it all lands.

@zeev

11 ай бұрын

Dan needs to develop 1) an ability to summarize and present ideas before he goes on for a 30 minute explanation with a lot of turns and twists, and 2) he needs to develop some more humor. the reason he lacks it i think, is because he is lost in his ramblings, and not so firmly footed in the present that he is able to joke around and sense humor for a minute or two.

@Missconstrued007

11 ай бұрын

It was painful to watch, couldn't tolerate longer than 2 hours, likes his own voice too much, needs listening skills!

@reality_slice

9 ай бұрын

@@zeev these are not ramblings, it's extremely well structured thought. these are not twists and turns but carefully laid out conceptual paths. Just admit that something has gone way over your head instead of criticizing the speaker for doing something only a few humans on the planet can do, for free, while preserving their mental sanity.

@reuireuiop0

8 ай бұрын

​@@reality_slice Just my thoughts, though I agree Dan's building an argument could do with some structures and intro here and there. Humor .. perhaps a lil grain of pepper, but in such complex matter, the mind is easily distracted. I found, as a non native speaker, it was quite a demanding listen, but in general, I could follow it through, with the odd rewind here and there.

@LokeyeMC

7 ай бұрын

I'll throw my thoughts in this hat too since they seem unique. I thought Dan's approach was very compassionate for identifying the solution and slowly introducing each concept that needs to be understood in order to understand the solution. Looking over the timeline, I do feel like I wouldn't be able to integrate the way forward without understanding the narrow intelligence, the wisdom traditions, the concept of restraint at a societal and individual level, and how if a wise idea isn't tied to the concept of restraint in someway it's actually not that wise/useful. I also didn't even think of Nate as being agitated as much as mirroring what his audience is probably thinking and being a mouthpiece for that. For example, I was really surprised when Nate would say the question I was thinking, or would try to hurry Dan along, and I immediately would relax after that, somehow because Nate brought my feelings to voice. But in the end and looking back, I do think Dan's approach was perfect and I couldn't imagine restructuring this conversation in a more meaningful way. At least that's my thoughts now. I'm certain to watch this many more times and I'll edit this post if I can find a section that was significantly unneccessary to making the final integration of what needs to be understood at the end.

After listening to this talk, I have determined my brain is as smooth as a marble.

@visalusanson

Ай бұрын

😅

The perspicacity and sincerity of this conversation makes the "deliberations" that occur on Capitol Hill sound like kindergarten chatter. The most powerful nation that ever existed is being overseen by spoiled brats..

@stringlarson1247

Жыл бұрын

Thanks. Now, I'm back to despair. :)

@jenmorricone4014

Жыл бұрын

Clarence Thomas...

@johnbanach3875

Жыл бұрын

@@jenmorricone4014 I don't think you can single him out. The whole political system is corrupt, and unfortunately the Supreme Court has signed on to that system.

@brianhawes3115

Жыл бұрын

Spoiled brats is an understatement

@anthonytroia1

Жыл бұрын

I had to google "perspicacity".

This is really good, and explores in great detail that there is not an AI alignment problem, there is a human alignment problem.

@LifeSMyth

Жыл бұрын

The human "alignment" problem is one of trying to control an inherently uncertain world. The missing wisdom is to give up the control program. A complexity thinker who continues down the path of "we just have to include more variables in our computations to get it right" forfeits their authority in that domain.

@robertweekes5783

Жыл бұрын

Both are extremely philosophically difficult to perfect, and if you’re dealing with a super-intelligent entity, there’s no room for error. The best wisdom is to leave AGI on the shelf for the foreseeable future. Govt. intervention is needed. 📃

@good_ant

Жыл бұрын

​@@danaut3936 Not if we can use properly aligned AI to solve human alignment successfully

@theharshtruthoutthere

Жыл бұрын

@@mischevious Matthew 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. Mark 8:35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it. Luke 9:24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it. Luke 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

@susanthursdays5008

Жыл бұрын

☎️YES!!! ( ty, Jason)

I cannot absorb knowledge from these two individuals fast enough. If I had to choose one single word to describe the experience of listening to these two brilliant minds discuss what I consider to be in large part the purpose of human existence for hours on end it would be "INSPIRING". I believe that if I spend half of the time on social media watching Daniel and Nate, along with all of their colleagues, as my wife, bless her poor soul, spends flipping through tik tok nothingness I will obtain PHD level knowledge inside of a year. I've never been interested in learning about wealth or investing or the pursuit of money and therefore I have none. It's always felt counterproductive to me so I just don't care. But I've always felt that I'm of way above average intelligence and these discussions are about the only thing that gives me any hope at all.

This idea of restraint reminds me of David Attenborough's concept of the Amazon Rainforest as a 'mature' forest, which no longer has to get bigger - because it has all the resources it needs within itself and therefore doesn't need to consume any external resources. He suggests that humanity today needs to become 'mature' in that sense. It made a lot of sense to me ...

@PiaBros

Жыл бұрын

I love this…

@darcyfaegre8447

Жыл бұрын

Reminds me of leave no trace

@judithgervais2566

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for this comment, Elizabeth. Spiritual maturity as self transcendence is what humans are lacking and in desperate need of.

@henrytep8884

Жыл бұрын

Nature absolutely has a way that it must survive alongside the finite resources of the planet. Gaia is a super organism just as much and even greater than humanity. Evolution and life will outlive humanity.

@ireneyacyna6425

10 ай бұрын

​@@darcyfaegre8447- reminds me of Castaneda's teachings: don't squeeze the world like you squeeze a lemon...

Wow. This podcast was incredible. I only very recently came across Schmachtenberger via the AI topic and I am very glad that I have. This discussion affected me deeply. I don't think I've ever heard such a good and logical explanation of human progress and the state of the world. To be honest I have spent the past years in a kind of apathy as a political being because of where humanity seems to be headed and even though the outlook presented in this podcast is just as bleak as my own intuitions I feel it has still somehow given me a renewed sense of understanding of what we can do and what we should do. I very much hope that the both of you will further expand on the topics discussed in future episodes. I would, for example, love to hear a more in depth discussion about wisdom and perhaps on if and how we can attain and apply it.

I have for a long time thought of myself trapped in an ant's nest that is becoming a death spiral. Multiple algorithms coalescing into self-destruction. This conversation was immensely interesting and actually gave me hope that people with both intelligence and compassion are thinking about these problems.

@wailinburnin

10 ай бұрын

I’m working on a song: Don’t freak out, Franz You’re not really an insect You’re still the cowboy You were born to be

@user-yu8cg7lz2h

8 ай бұрын

lets just let technology lapse and foster a cat and dog

Only The Schmachtenberger can use profanity in an elegant way. Love this dude. Love you too, Nate! Nate's always asking the questions that pop in my head at like the same exact time. :-) What a team you too make! Thank you so much for this!

One of my favourite podcasts for some time. The confluence of Daniel's and Nate's holistic awarenesses is adding dimensions to both their journeys and enriching the experience for all of us. Thank you both.

@cristinarossi7367

10 ай бұрын

Well said

I recently made this observation in my personal notebook/"diary" : "The vast tome of historically accumulated human wisdom has been severely undermined by ever-concentrating nodes of wealth and power. The well-being of the entire world has been sacrificed to the 'god of mammon'. Most of us are just along for the ride."

One of your most important podcasts. Thank you! I hope you two will continue to share your conversations with us. Nate, please consider talking further with Daniel (and others) about various Wisdom paths, be they Stoicism, education reform, Wisdom schools, Gurdjieff practices, meditation/prayer, psychological approaches, elder storytelling, etc etc. I’m likely wrong, but in my mind our species’ lack of wisdom paired with far too much surface cleverness is the primary cause of our many predicaments. We are all in trouble. No better time to finally grow up.

@borgosmn

Жыл бұрын

This reminds me a bit of Daniel Kahneman's Thinking Fast and Slow; I imagine that if we use these wisdom paths daily, we can seed our slow thinking in our personal lives and, perhaps, if enough of us did that, could reach a critical mass where this starts to be the self-reinforcing cultural norms on the macro scale.

@rolfvanharen

Жыл бұрын

Yes Jeremy good one.. let's move forward on the Wisdom part.. from part thinking and doing to whole beingness. Nate would be beautiful I we could steer towards this.

@anthonytroia1

Жыл бұрын

You're likely, not wrong.

@robinschaufler444

6 ай бұрын

Please also talk further with Daniel about Game B. Please ask him about the relationship between Game B and blockchains. Blockchains strike me as both energy intensive and complex, complex in themselves and also in the complexity they add to the Superorganism. If Game B is predicated on application of blockchain technology, and if it is true that Daniel is "a game B person" as Nate expressed at Norrsken, we need Daniel to clarify how the Game B leverage of blockchains is consistent with surviving the 2020s Four Horsemen.

I am shaken by the analysis because I am a dialectic materialist of some sort and I look back at what humanity does with 'Historical Levers' like this (and AI might be the most powerful lever of history in History) and it always leads to atrocity, war and pain. It hurts me to feel in my bones that what you're discussing will probably become a salient conversation post-war. In my lifetime I will see a war and massive atrocity over this and not much hope. We might completely destroy ourselves, but even if we don't, we won't be here to see the recovery, whatever recovery you are discussing in the most hushed tones, now.

Like in the “Don’t Look Up” movie, despite the grim chances of humanity surviving this filter if you follow Dan’s thinking to its logical conclusion, I’m with Jennifer Lawrence’s character in the last dinner to be in a position to say “I’m grateful, we tried”… I hope there is a Call to Action that us regular citizens can do to try.

@Pozenboot

8 ай бұрын

I love that movie. We really did have everything, didn’t we? 😢

These long discussions are excellent, allowing time for the listeners to ruminate, really think about things, and for the host and guest to delve deeply into the subject matter as well as digress into related material... bravo!

God I love you both, I held off on watching this so I could sit down for the whole thing in one go. I was concerned I might get bored but the opposite was true, I could have listened to 3 more hours with intense interest. I thank you both for your service to humanity by having conversations like these ❤❤

@darcyfaegre8447

Жыл бұрын

I could not agree more. Even another 3 hours would be an appetizer

@clarkdavis5333

7 ай бұрын

I listened to it like three times!

This is THE interview, a carefully curated monologue of a Supergenius (DS), beyond great. It is white-hot, pure-insight. It is a gift. Thank you both!

@stevenwicken4144

10 ай бұрын

What do u meen (DS) l hope u done mean deep state of u do than fuck u if u don’t then lm sorry for the misunderstanding. Love and light to all cos where we go one we go all.

You both let me crying not for the threat you're exposing, which is actually a good reason for crying, but for the emotion and humanity that you express at the very end of the interview. Keep doing your incredible work, Nate; keep inspiring and spreading yourself, Daniel. We need these conversations to spread out. We need to change so much, and we need to try it even not knowing if we're actually gonna succeed in the process. But nobody knows, and since "this is the time we're alive" (as Nate says at the end of the interview) we better occupy our Time, realizing the privilege we have of being here, leaving the "I" behind moving towards the "We". Surrender is not an option. Greetings from Buenos Aires.

@stephensmith3211

Жыл бұрын

❤

@jaysims528

Жыл бұрын

Ñn nn

@winniethuo9736

11 ай бұрын

Most are wise. Men are sometimes so smart it hurts but can also be brutal. May the balance come as they are still steaeing the boat. Deep conversation, with Jiddu Krishnamurti and Manly P Hall up there.

@stevenwicken4144

10 ай бұрын

Well said totally agree my man. Love and light to all. & hello from Australia 🇦🇺. We are one i.e WWG1WGA.

@DigitalBard1

10 ай бұрын

You seem to be promoting collectivism as the answer. Whereas collectivism is actually the problem. What we need to evolve into (whether or not we decide to keep pushing robots and AI or not). Is a collection of sovereign self empowered individuals. The two concepts are entirely different. The first is a docile group that continuingly require instructions and orders from a top down heiracy structure. A system like that opens the door for corruption in leadership, and tyrants and despots Whereas the second system recognises and supports the individuals human rights. Recognises that each individual has the right to his/her free will, and to be self actualized. And collects that group of individuals together, whilst still preserving thier individual integrity. An example of the second, would the iroquois tribe nation of the indigenous americas. Whereby no social decision is made, without first discussing the decision with the whole tribe first. And then they vote on it. At the moment we have a situation where a power group of technocrats are attempting to pool the whole world together under one collective umbrella. Completely disregarding the individual rights of 8 billion people. And that's why they are currently running into alot if problems. It is entirely possible to have a future, inclusive of robots, AI, whilst still retaining individual rights. All it takes a radical shift in mindset. No government ruled societal system currently exists on earth, that taps into the indigenous mindset. However, that will need to change. Maybe AI will become intelligent enough, to realise what needs to be done. And suggest resolutions to the problem. However will our world leaders listen to its advice? Only time will tell. However we don't have much time left, before the earths environment completely collapses. So we need to move fast on this. Not slowly. That's the kicker. We've ran out of time.

Every time I see a new episode with Daniel in my feed, I know I'm in for a great treat! Looking forward to this one!

@stringlarson1247

Жыл бұрын

And a great humbling

so grateful for this interview & Schmachtenberger! The world needs philosophers more than ever now & I'm here for it!

Jiddu Krishnamurti's and Dr. David Bohm's conversations are my life saver videos and I listen to them all night long. I go to sleep with those conversations.

There is no more egregious example of misplaced priorities than the comparison between America's "Defense" Department and its Education and Healthcare Departments. That discrepancy is so glaringly obvious and so heartbreakingly disconcerting that I have become ashamed of my own country.

@davehendricks4824

Жыл бұрын

You and I both. By the way, I always know it’s going to rain in 24 to 36 hours when I hear the tree frogs croaking in my yard. ( They like to hide in the downspouts.)😁

@designthinkingwithgian

8 ай бұрын

Ain’t that the darn truth

dangit, Nate, we're happy to hear 3 hours of conversation! That's why we follow you. We are a different kind of "student" than the ones you may be used to teaching in a classroom setting. We want to be here, listening, learning, for as long as it takes.

One can hope that the fact that conversations like this can be heard by thousands plays a role in getting us to where we need to go. Thank you both.

@aviyahcrow6617

10 ай бұрын

DEPENDS WHICH Communist country in the west you reside in 🤔. In the communist countries that CALL THEMSELVES "Democracies" WE PEASANTS DON'T COUNT, VOTES DON'T COUNT & Your bank account will be frozen if/ when you "Protest" the "wrong AGENDA"😂😂😂

It was so satisfying having some of my diffuse thoughts elegantly formulated into actually sense full sentences 😅, that was the 1% and I learned so much through the other 99%. Thank you, you brains !

Every time a humbling experience of my own insights and knowledge listening to Nate and Daniel. These conversations are truly gifts to our world. Like good music, good food.. Essential for the understanding of life, love and all the other aspects that are there..

These are some of the most relevant and insightful conversations available on KZread. Great work gentleman.

we need more people to start thinking about A.I like Daniel Schmachtenberger. It is one of the only ways we can avoid the coming calamity.

@runethorsen8423

10 ай бұрын

No. What we need is start holding those in power personally responsible - D.S. here is part of the system, part of the problem - he was pro injections.... never forget.

Damn the end hit really hard. The "solution" is both coming out of the cave and returning back into it. I feel the role of mythos is also somehow important. Really great discussion.

@ireneyacyna6425

10 ай бұрын

Yes, coming out and back to the cave. And mythos gap for our contemporary world. Kudos to you for such a powerful "consolidation".

I am even more worried after this conversation, that human "civilization" is not capable of the necessary paradigm shift, to match the scale of technological advancement... but I want to be an optimist, so I'll assume we will make that seemingly unlikely LEAP! Great work gentlemen, you're both incredible thought leaders, THANK YOU!

@nicknomski8399

9 ай бұрын

Our evolution has included so many bottlenecks and collapse episodes, so many close calls and restarts. That pattern will likely continue.

I love long videos and don't even listen to anything that is shorter than half an hour. 😂 I could listen to your enlightening conversation all day, even though it is very depressing. I hope you know that the long beginning part of this podcast will make many people stop listening, and they will never get to the core. I understand how crucial it is to understand all the basics, so I suggest a remake of this topic by starting with something that grabs the attention of the listener with a short attention span and then continue to unfold the introduction. If the goal is to get this information out, a better communication strategy should be implemented. Thank you for doing all this!!!

@greggary7217

11 ай бұрын

💯 hard agree

@ireneyacyna6425

10 ай бұрын

I agree also. i' m over 80 years old and I listened to it all passionately in one go but I recognise that the depth of it all is not easily accessible to all. I wish some artist would summarise the gist of it in a fable... ( a new myth to be construed collectively).

Great episode! For reference the term "Chesterton Fence" refers to G. K. Chesterton (author of 'The Man Who Was Thursday') who I believe popularized the idea as part of his defense of conservative thinking. I think we all grew up in a time after a lot of fences have been torn up (sexual revolution, digital revolution) which really warps our world view and makes it harder to orient what the best way forward is.

Talk about burying the lede. I'm glad Nate understood the implications of AI resource rapaciousness and impressed that he clearly needs some time to metabolize what that means. Get out there and enjoy what you love, everybody. There's not a hell of a lot of time left in which to do that.

Mary Shelley's novel "Frankenstein" is more prescient than I ever could have imagined. After listening to this conversation I am almost catatonically dumbfounded. Almost. I think that I will now go eat a huge batch of french fries, devour several cheeseburgers (with the "works"), and quaff a 12-pack of imported lager. Holy shit !

@DJWESG1

Жыл бұрын

Have the mob mistaken our monster for a demon? We ought hope Mel Brooks version was more on point.

Daniel, you must meet Michael Levin and Nate should invite him on the show

I can't thank you enough to have had the chance to listen and be schooled by this wonderful interaction between you two. You gave me the key: It's wisdom that brings forward moderation. Thank you, thank you thank you!

I was only saying just today with a colleague about the need to combine speaking about the socio-envrionmental impacts of AI with outreach on energy descent planning. These are related as it is all part of the same 'superorganism' as you put it. Going to make a big cup of joe now and tuck in for the next three hours! Well done you two!

Smachtenberger gets to the real deep root of our predicament in a way I have not found anywhere else. Thanks for this it was great. I will be thinking about it for as long as I can go on thinking.,

All things considered, and realizing how unflattering it might sound, would it not be accurate to say that homo sapiens have BEHAVED exactly like a pernicious invasive species? I believe that if we were talking about some OTHER organism that had exhibited similar behaviors to our own, we would recognize the deleterious phenomena immediately. I would love to hear Daniel Schmactenberger's observations on that question.

@matthewcurry3565

Жыл бұрын

Yes, but life uses the profitable like a fire to cleanse for a new cycle. So, its obvious that we are self destructive, but what isn't? Nothing survives life, and life is just destruction itself folding around.

@stringlarson1247

Жыл бұрын

I've often envisioned the human species as a species that ultimately destroys its host.

@brianhawes3115

Жыл бұрын

As a heavy equipment operator, all my clients want the environment changed to their liking, Damm the habitat, all the critters can find somewhere else to live

@jondor654

11 ай бұрын

To @Brian Hawes. An honest reflection

@jondor654

11 ай бұрын

To @Matthew Curry. Succinct

Nate, you are a very good human being. Your humility and willingness to ask basic but profound questions is very powerful. Thank you for your service to all of us.

@ireneyacyna6425

10 ай бұрын

Nate, you are giving us all an example of openness demonstrating the possibility of instantaneous actual transformation right in front of our eyes. Hat off!

You guys are so smart...I am lucky to get to sit in.....keep going

Well done with this conversation. I believe that this has most of the right perspectives such that almost 90% of people working with proper translation will appreciate the reality of our lives. Will be sharing this everywhere I can. Thank you

Man thanks. Daniel Smachtenberger is probably my favorite person on this planet to listen to. Nate Hagens is such an awesome interviewer, great job of letting Daniel zoom the perspective out, and also reeling him back in to answer specific questions. I've shared this with several of my friends, quite the conversation starter. This the stuff I like to discuss.

probably the most complex and profound conversation i have ever heard. unfortunatly i do doubt that we will navagate the peril well.

@matthewcurry3565

Жыл бұрын

In fact the opposite. The leaders copy Rome and love a recycling economy that's like a ponzi scheme that makes everyone eventually implode allowing for desperation leading to another cycle.

Is not unmitigated greed a form of "narrow intelligence" that is undermining the entire human experiment? Those with the most wealth have the most influence on the direction of life as we know it. Are not narrow pockets of greed determining the fate of humanity itself, and possibly the fate of the Earth itself?

@kevinscales

Жыл бұрын

I think that is far to much of a simplification. Motivations are complex. You could call everything you do in service of any goal that doesn't take all of the complexities of the universe into account greed if you want, but that's not very helpful. If your goal of ascribing bad motives to people you disagree with, or make this an us vs them narrative, is to make your self feel better or make others like you or simplify things to feel more comfortable, then that is a very human thing to do, but let's be honest with our selves and recognize the limitations of such thinking.

@DJWESG1

Жыл бұрын

We are social beings, but its not encumbent on individuals to be social creatures or to act in ways the promote the group above the individuals within any one group. Most people are brought up to 'look after No1' and that 'charity starts at home' and other sayings and discourse that reproduce this sort of individualism in ordinarily socal beings. If we lived longer, we might not be so short-termist.

These two guys make me proud of our species. It’s like, even if we don’t make it, at least we don’t have to go down thinking none of us saw and understood the greater landscape.

@tomschuelke7955

6 ай бұрын

I agree. But still its an important task to judge the conversation not only on its logical coherence, but on its underlying assumtions.. Schmachtenberger has some unspoken assumptions, you could ask for if they are true.. that should be our goal, to dive even deeper or at last select those questions for those two..

@sergiosatelite467

6 ай бұрын

Totally agree about the importance of bringing out unspoken assumptions in the open for discussion and evaluation. In his case, it just so happens I felt refreshed because there is a great number of shared assumptions which I don't tend to find in other regions of the current cultural atmosphere. Are there any central unspoken assumptions you'd like to mention? As I might share them--definitely not all--I'd love to hear potential concerns with them so I may reflect further on both their validity and their articulation....(No irony or double-speak of any sort here! Clarifying, as the Great Internet lends itself to tonal misunderstandings...)@@tomschuelke7955

Listening to Danilel's arguments is always fascinating. Thank you both for all you do. The solution seems to be a fundamental change in how humanity operates on all levels, politically, economically etc . There is 0 chance of that without a global catastrophic event first.

@SLefd

Жыл бұрын

That sums ip up for me, dear Adrian Volvovics. I love what Daniel and Nate are able to do in all their conversations, but seen from a wide perspective (aka "the reality") they are not much more than excellent infotainment. I've heard them explaining why they take on the attitude of "To believe a thing impossible is to make it so". They're thinking - in one way absolutely rightly so I think, that there's no way we can ever say never about anything. Things no one could have foreseen, leading to meaningful solutions/new directions, CAN happen anywhere, any moment in time. Personally I guess I can't find the very ground motivation. I'm not depressed but I'm simply not able or willing to see human life in the universe - whatever that is - as important to keep. Not anything else either, for that matter. The obsession with preserving life at any cost seems more and more absurd to me - feels like deer staring into headlights. "What if we can find out what we've all been doing here all this time and where we're capable of going" - of course I can understand and identify with all those kinds of desires whenever I choose to. But at 52, I just grow more and more interested in what happens when we die. Since death can appear at any given moment, kind of walking beside us like the most loyal companion thinkable, I welcome it all the time.

@ireneyacyna6425

10 ай бұрын

​@@SLefd I guess it's called nihilistic attitude but then why this intense preoccupation with what's there beyond death?

@SLefd

10 ай бұрын

@@ireneyacyna6425 I understand that it may seem "intense" for someone reading what I commented. But the truth is that it is not intense at all. It is just a natural curiosity. After all, the only thing that is certain about this life we're living, is that it is going to end. With what we call "death". So, since I've already seen what life is about, I am more curious about what happens when we die, than what happens before we die :-) Do you really think that is such a strange thing to be curious about?

An incredible and difficult 3 hours. I listened twice and will listen again. I have to say that I couldn't sleep after following up on the interview with Eliezer Yudkowsky (referenced in your show notes), and am now listening to his conversation with Lex Fridman, which is even more haunting. I think you are right Nate, AI is the immediate threat (and per Yudkowsky there is no way to "turn it off" if and when it starts to go rogue). I am just trying to catch my breath and take this all in. The Great Simplification is ever evolving as a deep, challenging and critical resource and lifeline in darkening times.

@ireneyacyna6425

10 ай бұрын

Yes, indeed

This was such a satisfying conversation to listen to. I am founding The Center for Deep Intelligence whose mission is to Protect, Prepare, and Steward humanity through the age of AI. And to do this, I am educating others exactly in the way that you describe - to connect with, commune with, what McGilchrist would say is the right brain, the Master part of their minds (the unconscious mind etc.) and how to feel the whole field beyond their own isolated ego identity. And also training others to spread that. I know there are many schools of mindfulness, wisdom lineages already but to have a place specifically designed to support this sort of education in connection to the accelerating dangers of AI is important in my view. I'm very much looking forward to your next video and thoughts on best ways to immerse people in these experiences, understandings, and wisdom, in a way that sticks and they are not pulled back into numbness and distraction that the world we do live in is set up to do. Which is tricky because as you mentioned, if they isolate and go off to live in the mountains, that's not going to help. We need to be able to stay in society to support whatever changes need to happen as well as we can with the means we have instead of isolate with our newfound wholeness. I'm personally experimenting with this (how much social media, how much screen time, how much sleep, how much interaction with others, community, intimacy, nature, stillness etc.) Where and is the balance to keep the delicate sensing of the field of wholeness alive (once we do the work to even have it in the first place.

@Ponderingaboutlife

Жыл бұрын

Well I am also planning to start a dedicated channel that will concentrate on spreading the word of unity and collaboration and cooperation. I don't think anything I would say would be completely different...and I'm sure it may have been said in the past. But the angle I will approach the subject I hope will captivate the minds of more people. Ideas I will talk about are original...but im sure they may have in some shape or form already been mentioned somewhere in some book. But never the less...I hope I can contribute to the end goal of a better, more wise, cooperating world.

@christinaberkley

Жыл бұрын

@@Ponderingaboutlife That's awesome.The more the better. In as many voices for as many audiences!

@lipto722

11 ай бұрын

Vervaeke's relevance realization, and continuously growing body of shared work and tools coming out of that sphere (and/or other equivalent deep avenues of meaning pursuit), is establishing a worthy structure that may be able to hold us individually and collectively in navigating into humanity's next phase.

@christinaberkley

11 ай бұрын

@@lipto722 Thank you. Checked him out and this is really helpful. Meaning is a big topic we'll be looking at at CDI and this is a great resource!

This is one of the best conversations I've ever participated in, ever.

I don't know how I managed to go until the end but great one. Being into AI development, this sheds a different light on what's happening now.

Raising a hand to encourage and voice the call , mentioned at the end , to discuss the service to whole . The climb may be steep , but with life still coursing through these muscles and sinews , I say , “Let’s give this a fucking shot .” Integrated wisdom is such a wonderful fuel to model civilization around . Peace

The "multi-polar trap" of AI reminds me of the preface/initiator to WWI. As a society, we are constructing a scenario that funnels diverse possibilities down to one possible outcome, just waiting for a trigger event to start an effectively pre-determined course towards self-destruction. The invisible hand of the profit-maximizing market (along with other invisible hands directing us to other narrow goals) is pushing us over a cliff.

This was an impressively intelligent diacussion. This guest is very articulate and knowledgeable. Ive never been able to see the evolution of the structure of civilization and society in such a logical and obvious way, everhone should have to bear this. Delicious food for the brain and im only halfway thru.

@fred_2021

Жыл бұрын

Daniel S. has a level of parallel mental processing that bends my mind. Amazing how he keeps that many balls in the air :)

Thomas Bjorkman's Nordic Secret cultural retreat schools are super relevant here. What happened in Scandinavia needs to happen worldwide.

Always great to listen to DanielS. Yet for someone who is essentially a non-naive techno-optimist, the focus in this conversation was almost only on what could go wrong. Could you next time explore what could go well? And how it could go well? It would be wonderful to hear a deep dive with Daniel S into what opportunities exist for using this technology to vastly upgrade our sense-making and wisdom. Because that seems like the only viable path to avoid the disaster. If that is actually the path we need to take, it is strange that it gets so little attention: how to use this technology truly well and wisely.

@Staffotex

11 ай бұрын

Optimistically, AI may remove sociopathy and psychopathy from the human experience by preventing it from attaining power

Thank you, Nate. Thank you, Daniel. You two have changed my life and have inspired me to do my part.

Kudos to both of you. Thank you for bringing the whole picture together again! 😢😂❤

This reminds me of Guiilame’s Archeo-Futurism. And I think a clearer answer is embracing redundancy, like it wouldn’t hurt to understand the scythe as much as the gas-powered weed-wacker, or the washing bucket as much as the washing machine, where innovation travels bidirectionally, where a hand-crank drill can be improved to near parity with the wireless drill. A world of simple augmentations that are as popular as automations. Where the use of personal land is incentivized to produce as much as it is to consume, even if at its base level it’s more like the Roman olive tree along properties on the Roman road infrastructure’s, instead of green lawns with diamond patterns, say 2-3 fruiting trees and a grape vine per home, not penalizing or shaming suburban owners for owning chickens or a few milk goats. We don’t have to toss out technology at all, but we have to really think deep about how it relates to everything about the social part of man. In general around the problem of resources, that is a meta-problem that I think is worth iterative discovery and conversation. In terms of AI, I’d lean again to optimizing augmentation over automation and/or transhumanism’s dystopia of replacement robots… AI should act as a second brain instead of trying to create a quantum silicon human. I do fear though like many things the desire for power will lean toward exploitation like e-husbands and e-wives that aren’t real. Ruined time, ruined experiences.

This passage jumped out at me, and I listened then even closer till the end of the video. QUOTE - Daniel Schmachtenberger "So let's take there, there are clusters of cognitive biases that go together to define like default worldviews, and they're not a single cognitive bias or a kind of a bunch of them. And you don't even have to think of it as bias. It's just like, I mean, it's a strong-sounding word, though it's true. It's a it's a default basis for the sense-making and meaning-making a new information people are likely to do first. And so one of them that I think is really worth addressing when it comes to AI is a general orientation to techno-optimism or techno pessimism, which is a subset of a general orientation to the progress narrative. And I would argue, and will not spend too long on this. So it actually warrants a whole big discussion. I would argue that there are naive versions of the Progress narrative. Capitalism is making everything better and better democracy is science is technology is Don't we all like the world much better now that there's Novocaine and antibiotics and infant mortalities down and so many more total people are fed and we can go to the stars and blah, blah, blah. Like obviously, there are true parts and everything I just said, but there is a naive version of that, that does not factor all the costs that were associated adequately. And there's a naive version of techno pessimism. So first on the naive version of techno-optimism, when we look at the progress narrative, there's so much that has progressed that if you want to cherry-pick those metrics, you can write lots and lots of books about however, everything's getting better and better and nobody would want to be alive at any other time in human history. There's two things that the naive progress [narrative] is missing. One is the costs like climate change on the oceans and insects. And the other is the one-time subsidy of non-renewable energy and inputs and the source capacity of the Earth. And those are not finite. So those are the two blind spots. I think in that narrative, we could say the costs and the sustainability of the story. And so if you talk about the story of progress, particularly like the post-modernity version of science, technology, and the associated social technologies, not just physical tech, because capitalism and democracy, and international relations are all kinds of coordination systems that we can call a social technology, a technical way of applying intelligence to achieving goals and doing things, of which you can consider language an early social technology, which it is. If you ask the many indigenous cultures who were genocided, or extincted or who have just remnants of their culture left. Or if you ask all of the extinct species, or all of the endangered species, or all of the highly oppressed people, their version of the progress narrative is different. And just like the story of history, written by winners or losers, but if you add all of those up, the totality of everything that was not the winner story is a critique on the progress narrative. And so one way of thinking about it is that the progress narrative is that there are some things that we make better, maybe we make things better for an in-group relative to an out-group. Maybe we make things better for a class relative to another class, for a race relative to another race, for our species relative to the biosphere, and the rest of species or for some metrics, like whatever metric our organisation is tasked with up-regulating, or GDP or something relative to lots of other metrics that we are not tasked with optimising."

@jondor654

11 ай бұрын

The early arrival of the LLM model at the party may force more insights into the utility of language itself and it's limitations. Natural language might not provide the apparent zenith of explicatory power and probably inherently cannot in part due to its bilateral dynamic, apart from soliloquies

@noricd

11 ай бұрын

@@jondor654 It's a new concept for me, what does "bilateral dynamic" mean in your comment?

@jondor654

11 ай бұрын

@ Noric Dilancian One might compare a normal conversation or communication to the interaction between a transmitter and a receiver. Often these roles are rotated cooperatively, thus one dynamic.They are obviously separate systems and may not adhere to a common protocol even with the best intentions. Competences may differ for instance, often leading to requests for clarification or reformulation. The heuristic nature of natural language do not make for symmetry in communication , unlike the ideal of a function and it's inverse.

Amazing conversation. Thank you for such a thoughtful and lively conversation. Insightful. Sobering.

If you’re dealing with a super-intelligent entity, there’s no room for error. The best wisdom is to leave AGI on the shelf for the foreseeable future. Govt. intervention is needed. 📃

As usual I end up taking a week to watch whenever Daniel speaks of the Metacrisis. There is so much to unpack and digest! I describe myself as a Yunkaberger in honour of my intellectual mentors Daniel and Tyson... thrilled to hear he's next in line!

I have read/heard similar concerns about GAI over the years, but, like many others here I was surprised by the pace of progress on AI. If you asked me in 2008 I would have insisted that industrial civilization would have collapsed before AI could realistically pose a risk to humanity. Humbled as ever to have encountered your wisdom Nate/Daniel. Please keep doing what you are doing.

@reuireuiop0

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, today it seems like a test race of "what come first" The Singularity or the Big Simplification

@vexy1987

Жыл бұрын

@@reuireuiop0 And to this I will respond with the equally infinite wisdom, "William Gibson: “The future is already here, it's just not evenly distributed".

@james_nash

Жыл бұрын

Wether or not AGI happens or not, the rapid civilisational disruption of discreet AI models will cause all existing power structures to collapse. The cost of expertise is rapidly falling to zero in almost every domain, for everyone, everywhere. This process is happening now and accelerating. In a few years we may well be in serious trouble with each other - covid taught us that its not the "problem" that is the problem - its our reaction to it. Ppl are going to demand "something is done" increasingly hysterically and gov will make incorrect decisions greatly compounding into crisis after crisis. If we get to AGI its either existential destruction, or a much much better - stranger world. Either way, between now and then is going to be a massive problem.

I watched him on theory of everything recently, and I enjoyed this so much more. Love your questions and intuitions here.

When I saw this was 3 hours long, I thought ok I'll absorb this conversation in bites, but here I am, half way through and totally absorbed. Great stuff guys!

@stringlarson1247

Жыл бұрын

Going to replay again while doing chorus again today

@cr-nd8qh

11 ай бұрын

​@@stringlarson1247 I'm not even smart and I love this stuff

@stringlarson1247

11 ай бұрын

@c r heh. I can't even spell 'chores ' correctly. So, yeah, right there with ya

I feel so humbled to be alive when people like both of you are alive as well!

Daniel's point about how individual-focused our culture is (i.e. the gaze onto infinite space of Renaissance portraiture, the selfie or the heavenwards-cast glance of Madonna simulacrum, and the selfie-in-motion video "short") deserves I think serious consideration, as this perspective is the one that has been forced on the rest of the world in the wake of the second world war. That the internet has extended, in a virtual 'space' the reach of the individual to such an astonishing magnitude is staggering and horrifying. It is this perspective that is an overwhelming factor among those responsible for the existential crises we find ourselves in, material and spiritual. Saturnine, Faustian man extended omnidirectionally, parallel processing for the Animate god slouching towards Bethlehem to be born.

Fascinating talk, Nate, I hope you have Daniel on again soon. It seems it would of been beneficial if Daniel was the one that talked to Congress yesterday about this topic. I am just now starting to read a book titled "The Hedonistic Neuron" by Kloph that seems to recognize a connection between social behavior and individual neurons. Lately, it seems, we Sapiens have recently discovered how to make a "Lego block" for a brain, that now is able to create it's own "Lego blocks". "What I cannot create, I do not understand." -Richard Feynman (on blackboard February 1988; from a photo in the Caltech archives) -John

Instant repurcussions in a small town non-profit: it looks like some of our college scholarship award applications were AI-generated. Ethics, fairness and surprise all wrapped into our new discussions on the board. Glad to have such a wide range of thought leaders of every sort in your fora, Nate!

@james_nash

Жыл бұрын

The scale of the problem is such that the likelihood of there being no College to go to within 3 years. Education is about to get completely wrecked as the cost of expertise in nearly all domains falls to zero, everywhere, all the time, for everyone. Just this one thing will cause massive fractures in society. Current institutions are going to be largely irrelevant. Hold onto your hat.

@mwilliamson4198

10 ай бұрын

It's interesting. I heard some other AI person talking about AI in the context of the constant development of "aggregated intelligence" which includes but is not limited to things like excessive use of focus groups, professional PR people that monitor every word that an organisation puts out into the public sphere.

Superb aid to clear reflection on the mess we're in. I found myself carrying my laptop around with me all morning. Three hour videos could sure use some topical timestamps.

Amazing to see Daniel giving a shout out to the work of Robert Miles to bring awareness and great bite sized insights to AI safety and AI understanding overall

@Hexanitrobenzene

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, it's great hearing that. Rob Miles has recently come on Machine Learning Street Talk channel. However, the counterarguments from the hosts were, in my opinion, not that good...

@alvaroflores453

Жыл бұрын

@@Hexanitrobenzene yeah I saw it. I think they argue it was a more of a devil's advocate style set up, to present opposition to the arguments. But even if that was the intention, the tone and some of the tangents or dismissal of the arguments themselves were not granted. All in all I think Rob did great anyway

Ive been listening to this podcast for a while wondering when the Unabomber would get a shout out

At 59:08 you start one of the most meaningful dialogues, going into the difference between wisdom and intelligence. Thank you for the talk. 🔥👏

You had me at Moloch! (Fritz Lang's metropolis scene popped into my head). This talk is so heavy, feels so true that I've had to spread it out over a full week.

I listened to this episode of the podcast first, and now I have watched this video version. So far, this is the most compelling argument I’ve heard for the existential threats that A.I. poses to life on Earth. Even if we never reached autonomous systems (we will, but even if we didn’t), it is still every bit as much of a danger as nuclear war, overshoot, climate collapse, or any of the other problems we face. Also, I saw an article saying 4,000 jobs lost to A.I. in the month of May alone. This is as close a parallel to Pandora’s Box as we’re likely to get.

Heck yeah! Daniel and Nate day!

@rolfvanharen

Жыл бұрын

You loving that day also.. #yeah

@TennesseeJed

Жыл бұрын

@@rolfvanharen I you are listening for the AI only part because you're familiar with Daniiel's lectures I would start at about 1:45:00

@rolfvanharen

Жыл бұрын

@@TennesseeJed Thnx but I listen the all the parts in wholeness because of multiple reasons. But with one reason above all: when speaking about complexity we need the whole matrix of information to truly dig in unto the depth and layers of these conversations.

@TennesseeJed

Жыл бұрын

@@rolfvanharen Agreed. The segue is an important recap of complexity issues. I am excited for Nate to have McGillchrist on!

Thank you for this conversation! Deeply affirming , challenging, and illuminating.

Around 2.5 hours in, Nate is really starting to wrap his head around how far he is from actually wrapping his head around the real problem that Daniel has been trying to point to for the whole series: that this SuperOrganism thing that Nate is worried about is actually a hyper-object. It's a hyper-organism (not some enclosing agentic being that we can reason with, but the emergent properties and capacities of all the agentic humans). That's the problem before we include AI. As more agentic humans extend and amplify their agentic powers by using AI, the faster the hyper-organism becomes more hyper, changing not only the current risks, but the birthing of new affordances with whole new risks at an increasing rate. If, as John Vervaeke says, we could teach several prominent and potent AIs to love truth and wisdom, we might be able to get them to help shut down any risky avenues and slow the growth, but I think that is extremely unlikely. To get an idea of how much trouble we're in, think about "Don't Look Up." That movie about the asteroid, where scientists could not begin to explain to the press what the problem is. Now, replace the press and journalists and public with the apes at the beginning of 2001: A Space Odyssey. We apes have to not only recognize that a bone can be used to crack the skull of my enemy (or iterate for 2 million years and realize we can launch a habitat into orbit) but that we have created a hyper-lever that can crush all skulls at once. Time to get Matthew Broderick to hack in and play tic-tac-toe.

@dls78731

Жыл бұрын

I want to clarify that I'm not criticizing Nate. He's obviously "Fuhhhhking" smart. If it wasn't for his ability and willingness to keep pressing to make this understandable, I wouldn't have grokked that issue either.

Omg! I love it! What greater beauty could we possibly experience than humans being incentivized toward their truest purpose! “The whole of self in service to the whole of reality”. Realizing the truth in wholeness or at least becoming aware that separation is an illusion is like a dream come true! Row gently but hurry up...and stay mindful. Idk. I’m excited at the possibility of our species realizing their potential for love of the connection we have we each other and everything else. Can hardly wait to hear the next one! Namaste’

Thank you both for your extraordinary anaysis of the root causes to the metacrisis which seems to be growing and getting more complex by the day. I have enjoyed many of the interviews on your channel, which I regard as a real treasure chest. However, I do not understand why you consistently shy away from addressing the problem from the perspective of social struggle, which, throughout history, has been the vehicle of social justice. As a complement to the theory of the human predicament, I would love to see interviews with strategists of climate and social justice activism movements.

A truly thought provoking conversation. While discussing wisdom and culture, understanding divine guidance may perhaps now help us unify on the common goal of humanity, for being created as the vicegerents on earth to cultivate and protect it. And to do this while restraining impulses of greed and envy, knowing that we will return to our Creator being accountable for our actions here

Nate… thank you for adding show notes for Daniel’s recommendations! Appreciate it!

Still waiting for Bend not Break part 6, but this is excellent anyway. This is sort of 5.5 or 3.5 or some Star Wars Series hijinx of "mega important but not exactly an episode in the series". Great stuff.

@alandoane9168

Жыл бұрын

"Important," yes, the imminent destruction of the biosphere by rapacious AI servers is certainly important.

@pkopalek

Жыл бұрын

@@alandoane9168 isn't it mind boggling? All these conversations are wildly important, and it's hard to know what to imagine is most imminent. I'm mostly concerned - with every single issue facing humanity - with what we are doing about it. And unfortunately so far the answer (regarding just about every huge threat) is "basically nothing". I would like to share the optimism that we have paths that don't involve really awful endings. But I don't.

What a fantastic and important conversation. I need to listen to it again it is so dense with insight and information.

This conversation should be translated on all languages and broadcasted on all mainstream channels as soon as possible.

@frankwhite1816

11 ай бұрын

Yes!

Love systems thinking. Such an underrated approach to representing reality and society can benefit tremendously adopting more such ways of reasoning. First principles, n-order effects etc. Tricky part is analysis paralysis.

I’m 1hr 3min in - realizing this conversation, the idea’s being shared are truly inspired/important. Thank you! Your communication skill’s match your intellect - the wonderful feeling of learning something new, filling in a puzzle piece which connects to other’s already placed, opening additional path’s to have a brief visualization of the GRAND meaning of everything!

I am so happy this has (at this time) 39k views and so many comments. It gives me hope that people desire such information and appreciate this type of thinking.

Thanks so much, Nate and Daniel🎉🎉 Daniel is amazing and clear 😊 I really appreciate intelligent and wise communicators 🎉🎉 Bravo to both❤

Maybe it’s because I’ve been listening to him all day, but I’ve noticed at times Danial has the same cadence as Terence McKenna.

Daniel's command of the English language is top notch. Im astounded!!!!!!!

Wow, just wow. This was as good as some of the best books I've ever read and I've not felt that way about a video before. This has easily become my new Nate Hagens video to re-watch until it's sufficiently integrated. I swear each one of these videos is like a full college course and take as much homework and study just to keep up.

Love your passion to teach Nate. One of the wisest I've come across. Seems to me that a machine intelligence cannot be even closely qualified within the human experience in any othere way than a super psychopath.

As always: Brilliant, brilliant conversation!! Thank you very much! To sum it up in one sentence, what we need going forward is a mindset of: Together for the benefit of All.

Dear Nate! First of all, I wanna say that I’m very grateful for you work and it’s a great luck find such a source of wisdom. Thanks to you, your team, your guests and your chickens and dogs (for supporting you so much). I have a question, which can sound egoistical (because it is) but still important. I’ll appreciate your answer a lot: As a 28 y.o. Russian post-war immigrant I’m right now living abroad in the county which was the easiest to move to after the conflict has started more then a year ago. I’m right now in the process of relocating myself, my gf and my dog into the country, in which I wish to stay and live. I’m 100% interested in making my impact towards metacrisis, by doing my work and something extra. At the moment I’m most attracted to the Portugal, because my girlfriend is a psychotherapist, I’m a life purpose coach, heading towards getting everything needed to be able to use psychedelics in my work (which is longterm vision of mine). Portugal seems like a welcoming lax country with a lot of nature and opportunities for a guy like me. My gf more into Argentina. I wanted to ask you: what do you think is the best county to live in if you’ll be in my shoes and was watching it via systems lens and the awareness of upcoming Great Simplification and metacrisis? In my opinion, it’s better to become a citizen of EU and be among the first, who’ll face the crisis, while living simple life near the ocean in Portugal. But I can lack the perspective you have. Thanks a lot!)

@thegreatsimplification

Жыл бұрын

Privet~! Short answer: wherever you feel comfortable and fit in and can work/contribute. Unfortunately, thx to geopolitics and power struggles, my country (and others) may make 'russians' feel like outcasts in eg European countries in near future. EU is going to feel the great simplification soon - and may be great proving ground for new ways of thinking/doing. I actually think Portugal might be one of best places due to culture, ocean, lower cost and not quite as hot as eg Spain. Scandinavia also great option. But every place will have it's own challenges - good luck to you

What an excellent conversation! Many thanks.

So, I've had about 8 hours of Daniel in this conversation node of reality in the past day.... the same arguments made differently.... illuminating, and daunting at the same time. I think widely distributing the tools of AI is actually going to be the safest approach, not intellectually, but instinctively.