What they did to Daenerys was the worst destruction of a character we've ever seen on TV. There's no justification except that D&D wanted to make their own Red Wedding style surprise but they weren't skiled enough to write one.

@user-mm6tb9mb7n

7 ай бұрын

I would argue that Jaime was worse

@reelworld1

7 ай бұрын

It was surreal when they had him telling Tyrion that he never cared about people, innocent or otherwise, the complete opposite of what he said to Brienne.

@carastone3473

7 ай бұрын

Actually, there were red flags with Dany from the beginning.

@visenyasghost

7 ай бұрын

@@carastone3473 No there weren't any. Name one.

@ingolfringolfrson1577

7 ай бұрын

@@visenyasghostCrucifying people en mass, burning people alive, letting her brother get burned alive by her rapist, burning a woman who was raped by her husband’s warriors alive for killing him and her eventual rapist warlord baby, entombing people in a vault alive, calling lizard demon nukes “her children”. “Freeing” then enslaving a whole army of brainwashed soldiers, and doing it dishonestly. The list goes on and on. And no, “oh they deserved it” doesn’t count. An evil act is an evil act.

Emilia Clarke was devastated by this too. When she read the scripts she said she cried and walked for 5 hours after it.

The theory of Dany “going mad” is entirely based on her fathers madness. Her father took at least a decade and being imprisoned to turn mad. The madness Aerys had was clearly some sort of mental Illness, maybe schizophrenia or borderline personality disorder. Dany just changed at the flip of a switch. I have absolutely zero idea how this made it to television. I’d say I’m surprised but knowing about the first pilot episode I can’t say I am. I hate how people just say “Targaryen craziness” like it’s something otherworldly. Incest can cause people to have brain damage or a higher chance of mental illness but they’re either like it from birth or it takes years to take over. This wasn’t the case with Daenerys and just makes a mockery of the situation. It was just insulting to watch.

@basquat76

7 ай бұрын

So my theory on the mad king and why he went mad is because Bloodraven tried to warg in to him and it drove him mad which we find out when sixskin tries to do it. The idea that madness is hereditary and runs in the Targaryan bloodline, due to incest, and will over time somehow show itself, is not really what Martin is doing.

@user-mm6tb9mb7n

7 ай бұрын

It can be interpreted from last Dance Dany's chapter, where she realizes that she spent too much time trying to be a ruler instead of "being a dragon" Right before meeting dotrakis. Maybe her next chapters in Winds she will more in more violent direction

@Dak1624

5 ай бұрын

Also knowing about the supposed Aegon's prophecy of WW returning might also caused the effect of him getting mad even more.

@Dak1624

5 ай бұрын

@@user-mm6tb9mb7n Lesson that sometimes you need to use force to achieve peace. In Meereen she tried to have peace at all cost but that was not working because slavers wanted to bring back old order.

The whole show especially the last 3 seasons was written like a children story with adult content. Brienne sitting an entire season looking at Winterfell and literally the second she turns around the light goes on. She then walks into the woods where she finds Stannis who happens to be to sole survivor of a battle and kills him like she out of the blue swore to do in the beginning of the season. Calling it bad writing is an understatement. The had Dany go mad cause they thought it would be another shocking moment cause they were so desperate to create those moments and failed every time by the way.

@reelworld1

7 ай бұрын

They didn't know what to do with Stannis so they just eliminated him in an idiotic manner. Their treatment of Dorne was even worse.

@basquat76

7 ай бұрын

@@reelworld1 It's mind blowing that the most expensive tv show in history is also the worst written show ever made. They just did whatever without ever thinking it through.

Yes finally! I never read the books but I done enough research to understand Daenerys and her motivations. I will never accept her transformation in the late seasons. I still can’t believe that to this day there are book fans and show fans that are either accepting or supporting the idea of her character being the Mad Queen. Even tho they would try to justify Cersi’s actions. I barely see any hardcore book fans defend her at all.

@reelworld1

7 ай бұрын

At least it's a very small number that support the decision to make her go mad. And yes, you don't see hardcore book fans in that group.

@ninacroftchannel

7 ай бұрын

Well, you should read the books! She is a murdering psychopath already in Book One! She sacrificed an innocent woman just to have her dragons! A murderer and psychopath from Book One! READ THE BOOKS!

@seth_fitzgerald

7 ай бұрын

@@ninacroftchannel No thanks, I’m good with analysis and I stand by it. And it’s like I said in the books she is who she is it’s part of her nature as a Targaryen. And Also, book fans will either justify her actions or they will try and downplay her actions but we don’t see any of them going hard for her and defending her book counterpart against the show counter part, which seems to me they are content with two incompetent riders ruining a character from a book by the author.

@ninacroftchannel

7 ай бұрын

@@seth_fitzgerald You're not good with analysis if you refuse to take into account/consideration extremely important and relevant bits of information. But sure, I do agree with you: D&D indeed ruined her character when they depicted her as a HERO.

@seth_fitzgerald

7 ай бұрын

@@ninacroftchannel My analysis is my analysis, I never said I would dismiss or ignore the horrible things she did because she is just like everyone else a gray character. It doesn’t matter what they do, if it’s good or bad as we see on the show and as we read in the books, she is who she is because of her choices, and no one else’s. Where my response comes in about her as a character on the show it’s counting towards the late seasons of what the writers did because we don’t know what she is doing until WW and DS books are ever released. Because the writers made stuff up that doesn’t align with her book character with no information from any recent books.

Daenerys become this massive pop culture figure. The young strong independent woman who stood up against her assailants and fought for the little guy. So from a modern day real life perspective having her go mad like that was a really bad idea. They literally took this powerful female character and turned her evil. What a terrible choice to make.

@thatoneblackdude3333

6 ай бұрын

It also ruins the dance of the dragons because Dany is meant to parallel rhenyrea by ruining Dany and just turning her into discount areys they ruin rhenyrea as well.

@basquat76

6 ай бұрын

@@thatoneblackdude3333 I don't know Rhenyreas story but there's a lot of theories and ideas floating around and none of really know what Martin has planned. I do think Dany's fate is to destroy power in Westeros as we know it. Not by taking it herself and becoming another dictator though.

@thatoneblackdude3333

6 ай бұрын

@@basquat76 I don't aggre about Dany not taking power gourge didn't write her ruling arc for it not to matter westaros needs a strong and capable ruler especially post long night and nobody else in the story meets that criteria.

@basquat76

6 ай бұрын

@@thatoneblackdude3333 No they need a new system. It's essentially fascism VS democracy. Another ruler and nothing changes. Dany might be Azor Ahai. Has to take her dragons north to save everyone. That might be her fate.

@thatoneblackdude3333

6 ай бұрын

@@basquat76 how are they going to change it tho ? I'm order for change to happen they need a new leader to make it happen and Dany is the only character in the series who aims for change fudulism isn't going to change over night and if westsros is to change they need someone capable to make those changes and Dany is that character.

Since it’s been said that Martin gave D&D a general outline of what he had planned, I do think Dany will have some sort of “mad queen” arch in the books. It’s just a matter of how that will unfold. I’ve always liked the idea that her “mad queen” arch will be a misunderstanding. For example, perhaps she goes to burn the Red Keep (with Cersei or Griff/Aegon, doesn’t matter who’s ruling) but accidentally sets off the hidden caches of wildfire. That in conjunction with what you said about her miscalculation of how she would be received by the people of Westeros would be enough for rumors of a mad Targaryen queen invading Westeros to really take hold. So she’s never actually mad, just has a reputation in Westeros as the mad queen because of misunderstandings, history, and distrust of foreigners

@reelworld1

7 ай бұрын

All indications are that the Dany's turn wasn't in the info provided by George. Bran being king was though. I agree though that some sort of collateral damage where the blame is placed on her would fit into George's kind of narrative here.

@joker4vernsol

7 ай бұрын

Facts

@thatoneblackdude3333

6 ай бұрын

Its been said by d&d who i don't see as reliable narrators while gourge may have given them broad strokes that doesn't mean they actually fallowed it given that they changed so much from the books, also remember gourge said the ending will be different so its misguided to believe events from the show will be the same as the show, gourge confirmed 3 things that will happen in the books and dany going mad or burning Kings landing was not one of them and gourge has no reason to hide that revelation given its on of the shows biggest criticisms mad dany was d&ds idea it's written all over how they wrote her character and treated her in comparison to how gourge writes her .

@reelworld1

6 ай бұрын

@@thatoneblackdude3333 Yeah they even got the burning of Shireen wrong. This is something that Martin revealed to them, but there's no way book Stannis (or even show Stannis for that matter) would do it. D&D were just in a rush to remove the character. And in the books Shireen isn't even in the same location as Stannis. She's at the Wall and he's near Winterfell. It'll end up being Melisandre alone who does it.

@thatoneblackdude3333

6 ай бұрын

@@reelworld1 d&d just took the easy way out when burning king landing gourge has already laid out the ground work for it in the books with areys wildfire still being in it on top of cercis declining mental state being compared to areys and Jon con being willing to burn down cities to win you don't need a dragon to burn a city down and gourge has made it clear how it will happen if you pay attention Dany is way to busy in essos she likely won't even be in westsros when it happens.

There were some clues she could turn that brutal (far too few to sell this but looking back I can see the foundations at places, like the consistency in showing "death by fire" as worse than others in the shows narrative and scenes for some reason, some of her more brutal scenes, though yes other "good guys" had that too, and showing that playing nice worked out badly for her), these were far too few and far between to get her to villain but were something. What they couldn´t sell at all in any capacity was her turning mad. She always had reasons for her brutal actions, sometimes not thought out well enough, not neccessarily enough to justify them, but reasons. Burning Kings Landing, she gains nothing from it, no reason. Had Kings Landing stubbornly refused to surrender it wouldn´t be as hard a sell, but now. It´s shit.

@reelworld1

7 ай бұрын

If there was collateral damage in the battle that would've been fine. But just randomly burning citizens for no reason makes no sense.

@leogunnemarsson4178

7 ай бұрын

@@reelworld1 Yeah, a reason is needed. They could have given her a big villain moment without it being a random decisison with no possible chance of furthering her goals.

My whole genuine thought was Dany could’ve just burned everything except the red keep or everything on the outer bank, she had absolutely nowhere to sleep that night cause she burned it all to high hell and the fans who claim “ it was necessary” it’s completely unfucking necessary to kill half a million people because what missandei died, don’t get me wrong I love my queen of naath but if Dany mindset was blood for blood , that is immensely too much blood, innocent blood at that. You could argue she lost everyone, you could argue when missandei told her dracarys to burn it down, whatever u want it’s not changing the fact that she burned slaughtered a city of people. And it’s her ancestors home like it’s technically her land she could burn everything else down but her home, THE PLACE SHE WANTED TO GO is burnt to hell but hey it was necessary ig 🤣

@SerbAtheist

7 ай бұрын

In her mind it was. All of it turned to sh*t and she believed she had the right to throw this 'draft' of her story into trash and start over with a new world where everyone would be obedient to her like her brainwashed troops.

You become a responsible adult at age 12 in the world of Ice and Fire. It's the medieval era, people had to grow up fast. Ollie was responsible for his decision to murder his friend Jon Snow.

@ingolfringolfrson1577

7 ай бұрын

Ollie had just as much justification for murdering Jon as Dany had for burning Meri Maz Dur

@seastar4194

5 ай бұрын

No, you are an adult at 16.

@alt-monarchist

5 ай бұрын

@@seastar4194 not in world of Ice and Fire, especially the medieval era. They would send you to war. It was a scary time.

@seastar4194

5 ай бұрын

@@alt-monarchist In the books it is stated that 16 is the age of adulthood. Joffrey can not rule on his own until he turns 16. John is 14 when he is sent to the wall. Ned says "perhaps if he had asked this when he was a man grown..." Yes, 12 y/o's go to war, but the official legal age of adulthood is 16.

What grates on me the most is the sneering condescension from some people that any of us who liked Dany are somehow terrible people who would have supported Hitler. All because we hate what was done to the character. Dany being the villain was not foreshadowed, she was always chaotic neutral- a dragon. Magical, beautiful, loving, loyal, but also dangerous, destructive, wild and powerful. Ugh I’m still mad.

@reelworld1

Ай бұрын

Exactly. It wasn't foreshadowed. Dan & Dave took many character storylines and just flipped them inexplicably. Jaime was on a redemption arc for many seasons and then they reverted him to his Season 1 character at the end. Twists are great if you leave a trail leading up to the change. They just forced them upon the audience without doing the work to get there.

Most of the characters acts shown are indeed crazy/criminal/psycopath acts, save for jon maybe. In the books they are no where near that. As for dany. She is being tempted by madness several times. Yeah there could be a lot more build up. But what did you expect from the people that turned the long night into one episode ??

D&D's insanity becomes obvious as they didn't realize how they made Arya and Sansa into psychopathic villains and then pretended that it was Daenerys who got crazy. Their writing was unhinged since season 5 where they started deviating from the books but season 8 takes the cake.

@reelworld1

7 ай бұрын

Yeah, Season 5 is when it began the decline. The whole thing with Arya putting Walder's sons in the meat pie was deranged. Putting aside the insanity of it all, there's no way one person could get in there, kill the sons, and then prepare them as a meal without anyone finding out.

@user-zv2vm8bd8h

7 ай бұрын

@@reelworld1 You should watch Preston Jacob's reviews of GoT. Especially everything since season 5.

I agree! Daenerys is the People’s Champ! To butcher her Character into a complete aberration of what She is, ruined the Show. Daenerys should have had the North bend the knee, take Kings Landing. Then united 7 Kingdoms take on the White Walkers and win. Jon didn’t want the Iron but instead took Winterfell since He has Maternal claim.

@SerbAtheist

7 ай бұрын

Robespierre was the people's champ, so was Mao, so was Stalin, so was Idi Amin and so many others...

The thing is, I don't think Dany even wants to go rule Westeros, she wants the "house with the red door" but Westeros has always been presented to her as Viserys' trauma; with people fighting to wipe out her family and take everything that was once theirs. She doesn't even have a personal attachment to the land, as taking Westeros feels like a duty/obligation to her; maybe from an internal need to avenge viserys and her mother. Dany thinks she's infertile, meaning she can't leave behind a legacy, so her goal isn't to re-establish the targaryen dynasty like so many Dany-haters are suggesting. She is indifferent about the people of Westeros and is more concerned with the plights of the slaves in essos. In Westeros, she would just be another monarch maintaining peace between the great houses and would probably be drinking/eating her days away (much like Robert during his reign, as there was no succession wars). However, when Dany looks at Essos, she sees herself as a person capable of amassing great power and feels like she should put it to good use: “Why do the Gods make kings and queens if not to protect the ones who can't protect themselves?”. Dany knows she can do the most good in Essos hence why she is not really planning out a dynasty but rather internally compromising with herself with what she can accomplish within 1-life time; because she thinks she's infertile she knows she has to finish what she started in her life-time. Book Dany would probably be happy to know she even has a surviving family member, she would probably be ok with Faegon/Jon being king or, would make one of them her sole heir, were she the one to take back the throne by rights of conquest. A lot of the fans feels threatened by girls holding so much power and not f**king it up to the same extent their favourite leads are. This is not a stab at other characters but I'm I must point out that Dany, by trying to bring long-term stability to slavers-bay, is capable-of, or at the very atleast, trying to think long-term (e.g., planting trees for a future economy). The like of Stannis and Jon are more geared towards instant gratification (jon) or want to be revered/acknowleded (Stannis). We all know Stannis is a messy human being: f**king around with shadow demons, executing his own men and burning his own kid (the latter has not yet happened in the books, but grrm has all but confirmed it) Jon however, d*ed in the books, NOT cause his men secretly hated him, Jon sent the ones who were bothered by him away to man other castles on the wall. Jon was K*lled cause he bankkrupted the nights-watch and gave long-term shelter to stannis (making kings-landing think the nights-watch took stannis' side when they're supposed to be impartial --> so any future supplies from the crown would be cut off, leaving them stranded). Jon also brought in an overwhelming number of wildlings, which was scary to the few nights-watch men holding castle-black but these men followed their lord commanders decision and tried putting aside their differences IN HOPES the wildlings (their long-term enemy for thousands of years), won't back-stab them to raid the south and that these wildlings would be willing to help fight against the Others (the men of the nights watch put a LOT OF FAITH IN JON uptill this point). Lastly, what broke the camel's back was, when Jon rallied up wildlings to go down south of the wall and take winterfell for him/stannis. the lord commander shouldn't do this kind of stuff. The lord commander's (& his men's) place is on the wall and not conquering and pillaging the mainland using the realms' long-standing enemy. There have been almost 1000 lord commanders (1000 different generations of leaders) spanning MANY THOUSANDS OF YEARS and Jon has stained/tarnished whatever values these men were trying to uphold for all these years within the span of a few months. Jon did what he did based on good intentions but MANY have died/were punished for less in this story. When compared to this level of rule-breaking and debauchery, Dany ending a few slave lords and threatening her enemies with nuclear (dragon) as a deterrence is not that evil. Even today we have mutually assured destruction as a method to maintain peace; Dany flexing her muscle isn't all that bad and certainlydoesn'tmake her mad. Also, lets not open the can of worms that is Aerys, cause he is probably not genetically mad but was driven mad from being held in solitary confinement for 6 MONTHS, the the argument about the Targaryen taint is unfounded; a lot of them were selfish and cruel and over indulgent but not mad. The only mad one I can think of was "baelor the blessed" but he was loved by the people, even though he was delusional.

@reelworld1

Ай бұрын

Stannis is definitely problematic on the book side too and not fit to rule the seven kingdoms. I don't believe he'd kill Shireen though. In the books Shireen is at the wall, and Stannis outside Winterfell so I think it'll be Melisandre who does it herself. I think when Jon is resurrected in the books he's going to have a lot harder edge to him than he was prior. It changes people when they're brought back. It won't be a Lady Stoneheart extreme though.

Dany going to Winterfell is what started her going nuts. 1st she learns Jon is the rightful heir, and then she sees him getting all the love and attention from the people that she was used to getting. Now granted, the "bells" driving her into the final madness was dumb. There should have been a better catalyst.

@zizojaezekeom3565

7 ай бұрын

That's not enough to make anyone mad, she clearly wasn't even after knowing all that just terrible writing with hint of sexism and misogyny

@doomrot

7 ай бұрын

@@zizojaezekeom3565 True. I guess "mad" isn't the right word. She's always been a ruthless killer. Every single one of her advisors that checked her worst impulses were either dead or had betrayed her (in her eyes): Missandei, Jorah, and Selmy dead. Jon told Sansa (resulting in Varys death) and Tyrion released Jaime. Again, not the best writing, I agree. But it was all there.

@Dak1624

5 ай бұрын

@@doomrot What was? Because Jon didn't want to sleep with her she turned mad? Or her saying that she has no love here? She in the books knows that when she says that her brother was stupid to expect that Westeros will welcome them with open arms.

@seastar4194

5 ай бұрын

Remember the line "He was no dragon, fire can not kill a dragon." She stood there and wanted to watch her only known relative die in a brutal way. You tell me that isn't crazy? And before you say that is because he abused her think of this. He was 8 y/o when his whole family was killed. He was crowned by his mother and left with an infant sister. Despite his pinching and hair pulling and horrible verbal abuse, Viserys kept Dany alive, fed and possibly a bit sheltered from the mockery of everyone they met. He could have sold her into prostitution or abandonded her. He didn't. Was he a good person...no, but he went through a traumatic childhood too. We don't get his POV so we don't know his motivations. Even if he did deserve to die, which I don't believe he did, Dany wanted to watch him die. And then she seemed to enjoy it. That was the very first sign I saw that she was going to be a violent crazy person. That is where I first saw it. It may have always been there but we were not privy to it until then.

@Dak1624

5 ай бұрын

@@seastar4194 How would you act when he would put a sword on your belly and threaten to cut out the child out of you ? / Because ' would have no sympathy for him after that.

The issue is that the books are not yet finished. There are still 2 books for Dany to develop into the mad queen. There is evidence that this will happen in the books, but her fans choose to ignore it. The show skipped 2 whole books and jumped right t the end. That is why it is so unexpected. The fact is that Dany is delusional. She justifies everything she does. Don't forget, we are in her head. The narrator is not omniscient. We are seeing things through her POV and most people will rationalize their bad actions to themself. That is what we are reading int he books. Look at the entire situation with Mirri Maaz Duur. She tells Dany straight out that she did not save her from anything. Mirri tells her all of the destruction that occurred in the name of procuring gold and slaves for ships to get Dany her crown. And Dany does what? She kills her. When all you have is a hammer then every problem becomes a nail. Dany's go to tool is fire and blood. She always chose violence. She was always a bit mad.

In hindsight she should have taking down Cersei first before going after the night king because bringing the dragons beyond the wall just to bring back wight is a bad idea.

@reelworld1

3 ай бұрын

And that also would've been faithful to the point of Martin's novels, the main threat was beyond the wall. It was potentially set up perfectly too. Cersei having seized power so ruthlessly at the end of Season 6 would've put her in a position where there was a revolt against her rule. It would've been easy for Dany to exploit it as Houses turned against her blowing up the Sept and Tommen's death, which many would've attribute to Cersei.

Guess what in the books G R R Martin has her going mad too and is even a worse person so this is one time D&D can't be blamed for her storyline.

@georgiakairiodoherty8126

7 ай бұрын

I never got that from reading the books! Danny is always questioning herself about her choices, and takes advice from people, crazy people wouldn't. She doesn't always get things right but nothing I've read in the books has ever suggested she's going mad.

@visenyasghost

7 ай бұрын

I've read all the books twice and guess what, there's nothing there showing her go mad.

@leogunnemarsson4178

7 ай бұрын

@@georgiakairiodoherty8126 Crazy people can absolutely take advice or question their choices. There are so many types of mentall illnesses and ways for people to be "crazy". One might not question their choices, one might do so to the degree its a crippling hindrance to living a normal life. One may not take advise, one might compensate not trusting themself to make good decisions by asking for advise all the time.

@ninacroftchannel

7 ай бұрын

@@georgiakairiodoherty8126 Read AGAIN, and read with understanding! She's not mad in the books, she's EVIL in the books! Remember in Book One, when she MURDERS AN INNOCENT WOMAN? How come that you completely skip that part of her character?

@watermelon520b

4 ай бұрын

@@ninacroftchannelyes, an innocent woman who tricked her into believing she could save her husband (she turned him into a vegetable) and then laughed in her face when their child died. plus all the terrible things that the lannisters have done? melisandre throwing people on pyres due to zealotry? lol

This plot twist shows that there is no room for development in the world of Game of Thrones. This is the Middle Ages in stagnation. In the end, the leadership positions are occupied by characters who lacked the heroism to build a better world themselves, they founded it on the bones of Dany. Everyone thinks about their own benefit and comes up with excuses for their terrible actions.

I have no problem with danny going mad, but it needed at least another 10episode season to justify it and build up to it. GoT from season 5 onwards just derailed with CW level's of bad writing and bad television

Lindsay Ellis & Sage of Just Write in videos of theirs pointed out something similar. Madness-as-being-a-tyrant is not the same thing as madness-as-being-mentally-unbalanced-out-oft-touch-with-reality. Book Daenerys & tv show Daenerys are not the same & show Daenerys has never had ANY signs of mental unbalance. And while it is true that show Daenerys was quite politically ambitious, her ambition was always tempered by her moral quest to make the world a better place. It's possible you could do a dark turn with show Daenerys that might work if the world building was such that we could see her making choice after choice taking her slowly down a dark path, BUT the world building of the show until the every end was such that there was no reason for her to become more & more like Stannis & Tywin. Beyond the travesty of the character heel-turn though is just pure political nihilism of the turn. The show basically ends up concluding that there's no way to make the world a better place that doesn't end up making it far worse.

@reelworld1

4 ай бұрын

I think the only way you could build in a story where Daenerys burns King's Landing is if they had to take the city because they needed the walls to protect them from the advance of the Night King. But even in that case her target would be the Red Keep and not the citizenry, but they could've worked in collateral damage. It would've also made for a more compelling ending keeping the NK for more than just one battle.

@conrad4852

4 ай бұрын

Indeed! Even if you take Daenerys down a dark path toward her being more of tyrant than a liberator--which I would be rather difficult with tv Daenerys--there's no way you could get to her just slaughtering the entire city.@@reelworld1

Here is an example of an Arc that could lead Daenerys to the action of 8x5 episode: in the Episode Spoils of War, with Drogon injured, Jaime manages to capture Daenerys and take her to Kings Landing. We all know Cersei is not into quick deaths for her enemies, so she tortures Daenerys and humiliate her with the walk of atonement, with all people shouting and asking for the Mad King's daughter's head. But with the help of Jon (riding a Dragon for the first time), Daenerys escapes and for gratitude, she makes a vow to help with the night king. But she slowly the hatred of Cersei and the people of Kings Landing takes over, leading to her actions on 8x5. I know is not perfect, but AT LEAST she would have a reason for the massacre.

@basquat76

7 ай бұрын

An actual story arc that made some sense. Although coming up with something better isn't actually that hard.

The question is: was this George's idea? Will the books do this? And if so will it be better setup?

@reelworld1

7 ай бұрын

If he did go that way it would be a better setup, but there's no indication in the novels that she would go mad. The big shocking reveals George gave to D&D were Shireen being burned, the truth behind Hodor and Bran being king. The latter of course was panned too with how they did it, but I'm sure George would have it make sense. But no, Dany was not his idea.

@happyron

7 ай бұрын

@@reelworld1 interesting, I've yet to hear him say one way or the other, be interesting to see if he ever finishes the books. If it really was their idea then it's even worse than I thought. I presumed it was George's idea and they just implemented it poorly and didn't develop it over a long enough period of time, especially given how quickly the last season went. If they had developed it over a few seasons it might have possibly worked. But having a bunch of bad things happen to her over just a few weeks of episodes really fell flat.

@alexmars1511

7 ай бұрын

Yes, the whole world already thinks she crazy, breaks truces and oaths, threatens envoys, turns on loyal servers, a nympho , feeds kids to dragons. And all of it has a grain of truth behind it. Danny doesn't need to turn evil, whatever she does next will be viewed as evil.

@ninacroftchannel

7 ай бұрын

Read the books! She is an EVIL MURDERING PSYCHOPATH already in Book One! She's not mad, she's EVIL. Read the books!

I thought it was funny how even her death was poorly written. Jon stabs her, and Drogon is so mad he suddenly for the first time ever shows intelligence by destroying the Iron Throne (??) in some strange comment on "power corrupts", then he takes her corpse and flies away with it. And I am thinking.... hmmm, so now Jon is the only one who knows she is dead. Drogon flew off with her dead body and even the murder weapon. How did they figure out that Jon killed her? It's so dumb they literally could not have made it dumber if they tried.

@reelworld1

2 ай бұрын

One of my favorite memes from that season was of Jon watching Drogon leave with Dany and the caption, "That dragon just took my knife." The whole burning of the Throne was so heavy handed and laughable. Each scene in the whole Dany death scenario led to another ridiculous moment. Why is Jon being punished for stopping a tyrant? Why is he banished to the wall for that, and how is Greyworm going to monitor that Jon is actually sent there? It just goes on and on...

@TheLiquidPepper

2 ай бұрын

@@reelworld1 I agree. It's like a couple of 5 year olds playing with toys. It is such a stark contrast to the early seasons to me it feels intentional.

There was never a "turn" because she always was the villain. From the start. Narcissistic, entitled, egomaniacal and with a messiah complex. Kind to her worshippers, brutal with her enemies. Just as every tyrant ever. Mirri Maaz Durr tells her so before she burns her alive, but she doesn't care. And we neither, because she has suffered so much that we empathize with her and we become worshippers as well.

The vast majority of Freys partook in the Red Wedding. So they got what they deserved. I didn't feel sorry for them

The world views Dany as mad, she has been caught talking to herself by her servers. The calamities said of her have a grain of truth behind them. Dany may not do be evil, but all her actions are interpret that way, so its a lose lose situation.

@ninacroftchannel

7 ай бұрын

She MURDERED an innocent woman in Book One! She IS evil and a murdering psychopath, just like her ancestors! They burned innocent people in their attempt to "wake the dragons". They failed, but Daeneris didn't fail, BUT STILL SHE MURDERED AN INNOCENT WOMAN to become a Mother of Dragons!

Dany's story will forever stand as the greatest story to ever appear on TV screens: the destructive power of personality cults. No amount of tuquoquing and pointing to other characters who 'did worse' (really? their trail of corpses was anywhere near as high as Dany's?) will rescue the audience from the fact that they rooted for an unrepentant psychopathic villain!

@visenyasghost

7 ай бұрын

LOL!

@Dak1624

5 ай бұрын

What about Arya? This one is psychopath and yet she is seen as a hero.

@seastar4194

5 ай бұрын

Yes, thank you!

Executing opponents was common during the Wars of the Roses which GoT is based on, Edward IV pretty much executed every noble he captured after his battles. He didn't care about ransom, he was forging an inpenetrable position as king so his actions made sense.

Hipocrisy? She was mad from season 1 xD

To be fair, the season 8 history and lore GOT videos helped explain this a bit better. Her father wasn't always Mad; in fact, some called him a decent ruler at first, but after an incident when he was betrayed by a lord, he thought served him and spent months captured until he was rescued by Tywin. That experience warped him and made him feel he couldn't trust anyone and that anyone could be a traitor. Also, he punished one of his enemies by burning her, and that's how he got the taste for burning other people. Plus, that whole incident happened because he got annoyed at how everyone kept saying that Tywin was the true ruler even though he was the King, so he made this decision against Tywin's advice and feel into his enemy's trap. So basically, like Daenerys, her father hated having his authority questioned, and the way people looked at someone else as their leader over him and having a traumatic expression, he fell into madness. I take that to mean that Targaryens are more vulnerable to going mad than other people, and she had so many traumatic experiences that all added up until she finally snapped. Still bad writing, but not too out there from a certain perspective.

She brought dragons and a horde of vicious barbarians across the sea to become queen of people she had no connection to by force. She was always the villain: a complex villain, certainly. The mistake was the show presenting her as a strong female hero. Book Dani was pretty scary.

@SerbAtheist

7 ай бұрын

It wasn't a mistake. It was by design. A deadly trap for the audience, to fall in love with a villain and then have the rug brutally pulled from under them.

@thekrakensdaughter

7 ай бұрын

​@@SerbAtheistdo you actually believe that?

@thekrakensdaughter

7 ай бұрын

book dany is a 14 year old girl who's still trying to figure out ruling and makes mistakes sometimes, there's nothing scary about her

@ninacroftchannel

7 ай бұрын

In Book One, she MURDERS an innocent woman, simply because she needed her dragons! She is a villain, murderer and psychopath from Book One, devolving further in the sequels.

@thatoneblackdude3333

6 ай бұрын

Her dragons weren't going to her innocent people same with her dothraki, and no connection? Targaryens ruled westsros for hundreds of years just because she wasn't living in westsros all her life doesn't mean she has no connection to the land , a person who frees slsves abd helpd save the world is not a villain thar ridiculous.

Be cool, in the books will be the same thing. Is no happy ending. The show make in a poor way, but will be like that

@visenyasghost

7 ай бұрын

George said the books will be a bittersweet ending, but Daenerys isn't written as a crazy person. That was all D&D.

It was also gonna happen. It's much more probably than her being the azor ahoi princess self-insert of targ stans. This is just cope.

Nobody turned her into anything! She was a murdering psychopath already in Book One!

Kinda tired of George just lying about where the plot was going and just chalking his own work up to whatever the television show did. Which was terrible. Idgaf what any of you say. It was a TERRIBLE translation of the books altogether and had almost no plot threads connecting to actual in book events. Season one was fine from what I saw. Barebones as a motherfucker but fine. Anything after that was shit tier. No zombie Catelyn, no Rickon on skaggos, no Young Griff (actual Aegon because the books have exactly zero text that applies to Jon fuckin snow being Aegon and that’s all made up bullshit) so imagine my surprise when they fuck up literally everything and everyone gets shocked pikachu face that the ending was trash. 👉 😑 this is my face when show watchers complain the ending sucked. Because it all sucked.

@reelworld1

7 ай бұрын

Strict TV and film adaptations are difficult, even for those more talented than D&D. I tend to give wider parameters for shows on this, but I can understand why some people hold a hard line. The real turning point for me was in Season 5 where they trashed the Dorne plot, which is so crucial and intricate in the novels, and made it a farce.