In theory the Altra Arrows are a 360 degree spine, or at least that's the marketing on them. Would have been interesting to see what you found on the spine tester.

My dudes you and MFJJ put out the best videos on bow builds arrow builds arrow dynamics bow dynamics anything everything I literally watch your videos multiple times and learn so much here in rural NE Wyoming I have no great bow shops, say within 5 hours that go in-depth with you on details etc etc. Which has brought me to tinkering and customize my own stuff learning the hard way in some ways lol. Salute to the off season and tinkering session the perfection time, I’d drive cross country just to build a bow with y’all. Keep the videos coming!! Happy New Year!

Dan, super appreciate how much work you do tinkering and sharing with everyone!

Man, your draw and aftershot is so crisp. You’ve perfected it for sure!! Great video.

Love these videos Dan, you've really found your stride here, this is good stuff mate👍

I love the ABT, thanks for the info!

"You can go in the back door, if you will..... Why are you laughing?"

For whitetails I find that 390 GR total arrow weight is a sweet spot for both hunting and target.. helps retain speed for trajectory and still has enough energy to blow through a deer. I want to do a Maine bear hunt sometime and I would probably need low 400 for total weight on the arrow

The CBE Trek Pro will work with the UV3 scope. Bar and all, I have always like the micro wind adjustments and elevation knob on the CBE sights! With the UV3 a solid setup!

I really like the component system on the 4mm. I'd love to see them do that design in titanium

The .246 is larger diameter so it will sit higher on the rest .. which will make them shoot higher on target .

Slick trick 100gr magnums are my favorite broad heads. Always a good blood trail and they fly great

Vipertricks have been my go to for many years. Last year or two though the QC seems to have suffered in my opinion. I haven’t seen those revivals before, but they look just like Solids that Steve Speck designed years ago.

@spindrift2719

3 ай бұрын

Same with the slick trick

Would be so fun to be sent new gear and give a real time review. Those Altra Arrows sound interesting and I agree that the 4mm should be what Tyler runs with. Bear 🐻 season will be here before you know it 💪🏻😎🏹

Congratulations on the new sponsorship!

@ElkShape

5 ай бұрын

That's hilarious!

ABT!!

I absolutely love my decut arrow saw, inexpensive and it has a foot petal to turn it on and off .

@nicetryb0z0

5 ай бұрын

Yep same. I didnt wanna cough up the money at the time when I was getting into trad archery and needed to tune arrows but it's the best money I've spent. Great little saw

@mat_in_texas

5 ай бұрын

That’s the one I’ve been looking at, glad to hear it’s working well for you

I believe I said this to you before but I was at 4 mm diehard still am but I switched it up to fives with the with the the rip extreme velocities and you guys kind of got me tinkering with them and I like them but I hunt with my floors and I still feel like my floors flew better than my fives than all honesty

Last chance arrow saw! Cant beat it.

Viper tricks worked well for me. Had a great blood trail. No bad things to say about him

@ElkShape

5 ай бұрын

NOTED! -DS

would love to see a video on the CBE sights

@nicetryb0z0

5 ай бұрын

I've had to retighten all my screws on my trek pro every 30 arrows since the day I had it, gonna send it in to fix hopefully. Havent had any trouble with my tactic hybrid. I'm sure I just got a lemon, cant imagine i over torqued anything but its possible I guess. Just really annoying for the price I paid for it.

Great video. If you don't love the Scott S2 release I'd be astonished. It's the best wrist release I've ever used. I'm curious on using hot melt. I've read that the Altra arrows are made by Black Eagle and Black Eagle says to not use hot melt with their arrows.

@ElkShape

5 ай бұрын

Excited to learn more about the Scott S2 - coming soon! -DS

@raider9170

5 ай бұрын

@@ElkShape I'm a hinge guy but that S2 is really enjoyable to shoot. With the rear offset trigger option you can bury the trigger and get it stiff enough to preload it without worrying about an ND

Better yet show some Gold Tip Love and try some LRT’s or kinetics

@ElkShape

5 ай бұрын

That would be cool! -DS

Altar advertising no spine in their shafts. Watched Darren Christianberry describe these when he went from Easton to Altra. The .246 are almost identical to the Black Eagle Carnivore at .245 and weight.

@ElkShape

5 ай бұрын

No spine eh? I'll pin that question to Blake next week when he gets here! -DS

Atlas says there spine is significantly reduced do to there processes, Curious if it’s accurate or just sales crap. Also, Altra said they would have a .204 5mill arrow available for purchase in the spring

I know you big fan of aae vanes. But to save on weight I would check out TAC vanes if you haven’t already. Tac driver 2.75 is only 6.2 grains

Like seeing the new products, but that “Made in China” on the side of the box is a turn off.

@gregsido9235

5 ай бұрын

Yeah,it said the same thing on the side of the box that your smart phone came in! Hypocrite!😡

@longdrawarcher4857

5 ай бұрын

@@gregsido9235angry over nothing

LCA has the best arrow saw on the market!!

Use a q tip to clean off the excess glue!

Those screw in , 10 gr. 20 gr. Add in point weights have come loose on me . Maybe you already do, but I would use some loctite on the threads . Especially when you are done tinkering .

I have a CBE Trek Pro and every 30 shots i have some random screw on it come loose. No rhyme or reason. I've never had this happen on any other sight, did I just get a lemon? My cbe tactic hybrid works great I've never had to retighten anything on it

I saw Levi switch to them. I was doing some research on them and now elk shape is doing a video on them. Convenient

@ElkShape

5 ай бұрын

I saw that yesterday - good for Levi! ...and good for Altra as well haha! -DS

What was the variance in the arrow as you spun it in the spine tester. They claim there is no spine point in their marketing info.

If you do use glue, you want the AAE Max Impact (black)

Are these more durable for 3D than say an Easton sonic?

Can we get an episode where we talk about building arrows for youth or women. My wife is shooting this year and we want to do it right. I build my own arrows but not knowing her draw weight yet what spine should I put her in or should we go cheap and wait until she steadies out, then build her arrows. I shoot 60 lbs and I get complete pass throughs with a 380 grain arrow at 30 yards on white tails. Expandable grim reaper tip. She will be using fixed next year. Well she will start to shoot in the spring after we have our baby. She will be using the missions radik and she will start to shoot as low as the bow can go so we can work on forum. If you want can you do a full demonstration on tuning a slower bow. Just curious if there’s a difference

You can definitely hear the difference in in quietness between the bows though I believe Dan's probably shooting his lift

@kylehardin936

5 ай бұрын

Ya, Dan's bow much more quiet - I bet he's shooting the Lift. There did seem to be a weird buzz with the shot though.

Guess they make a 52 grain brass insert that would help a lot

I use the same arrow saw you use. If I was to upgrade, I'd get the Last Chance arrow saw. ABT

@ElkShape

5 ай бұрын

Roy - I have used that cheapo Carbon Express saw that MFJJ sells and it's been pretty good. I like the price tag. LS Saw is quite the investment! -DS

⭐

If you cannot hold on to the insert with your fingers then you are over heating them and can cause damage to the arrow or like you did bend the insert

@adamyoder1

5 ай бұрын

All love Dan-O but Tyler is right, you cooooooookin the inserts and that’s why they probably bent, paired with the tight tolerances.

@nathanmccutchen5272

5 ай бұрын

Wayyyyyy too hot

Would love to see a setup vid from start to finish (axis adjustments, in depth for dummies, to sighting it in) on that CBE micro 3V….i was considering it heavy until i heard they had some kinks to workout with stuff moving around when locked down….But for people who dont have software like archers advantage or the other new one you mentioned and not crazy yardage available to shoot i always find it confusing to setup a sight, and get it configured then get your tape setup as well. Always get confused in which steps to do first and such

@ElkShape

5 ай бұрын

NOTED! Blake from the Outdoor Group gets into town next week, I'll make him cover this for you! -DS

@Orr_s

5 ай бұрын

@@ElkShape awesome keep up the great content!

@drewolm

5 ай бұрын

That’s all fine. I think on paper it makes sense. Real life? I do a lot of shooting in the wind. My January deer hunt area I either have blue bird skies or bitter cold and hurricane winds. Shots are alway on the long side because it’s wide open desert. I have seen no improvement, over years of shooting to show 4 or 5 mm to be better. In fact my standard .246 group the best. I have a theory, can’t really prove it, but seems the string tracking the “center” of a full size shaft on release, lends more forgiveness. At any rate, one thing that has also been a factor is arrow weight and FOC. Seems 475-500 grains and FOC 15 or 16 percent is the magic combo. Ranch Fairy style and the point will start to outrun the fletching so to speak at distance. Far as diameter goes, as an electrician, if I put a 1” hole in a wall, it’s just as easy to put a 3/4” pipe through the hole as a 1/2”inch pipe. The different diameters give people choices, that’s awesome, but to no actual benefit.

@nicetryb0z0

5 ай бұрын

Hey bud you mind expanding on what you've heard about the CBE issues? I've had nothing but problems with my trek pro and thought i got a lemon or something because I figured theres no way I paid top dollar for a sight and I've had to retighten down random screws like every 30 arrows. Thanks for any feedback

@nicetryb0z0

5 ай бұрын

​@@Orr_sI've been trying to find forums on it but couldn't find anything so I figured it had to just be my lemon or something. I've had plenty of other sights without this issue, including a cbe tactic that has been working great.

lol was this a promo for Altra, or Easton Pro Comp?

Gonna have to start calling you Disco Dan with that music 😂

@ElkShape

5 ай бұрын

Haha - I wanted something with some funk! -DS

Looks like ill be sticking with victory arrows. Altra has too high of gpi

.246 is standard gold tip hunter arrow .

These arrows are great if you want a 465gr + weights. The lowest i was able to get was a 474gr in the 4mm. They fly great out of my bow with DCA SS vanes in a right helical 3 fletch 29.5 draw length 70lbs . I was able to remove 1.25'' of arrow length.

@Orr_s

5 ай бұрын

474 grains in a 4mm thats quite heavier than id imagine. Ill stick with my VAP SS seeing theyre slightly lighter total weight…29.5” draw here also. I wish i went RIP or TKO now tho for the lighter more customizable option. I do love my 4mm SS tho as well. Right around 16% FOC…ethics insert and collar 65 grains total insert and collar weight

@ElkShape

5 ай бұрын

Ya man, I think Tyler was hoping to have lighter arrows but based on the GPI and the FOC... he probably needs to in the high 4's or low 5's. -DS

@coffeensteak

5 ай бұрын

Im currently running victorys vap 300's. i am setting right at 436gr setup and for the life of me i can not remember the foc. i was thinking of switching the to vap ss @@Orr_s

@coffeensteak

5 ай бұрын

Yep, i feel this arrow is great for anyone that wants a heavy arrow setup. Just from my tinkering it flys great and has good foc on my setup. I was surprised the the .264 had a lower gpi than the .166 but i am of shooting 4mm arrows. someday i want to try JJ's arrow parts. @@ElkShape

You need to make adjustments to the rest because of the .166 and .246 sit different on the rest. Your rest height will be off.

@ejzembas

5 ай бұрын

That's probably the real reason the 246 hit higher, not the weight difference. The 246 sits nose up compared to the 166 so it will hit higher

@goldtip34

5 ай бұрын

Ya I just shot LRT’s, airstrikes and pro hunter and they will all impact different. The rest height needs to be raised or lowered accordingly to level the arrow back out. It will make a big difference in your groups as well

Hey guys big fan of elk shape and podium archer... Just curious - in the vid you said he used the ram spine tester to mark stiffest spot... In a previous vid didn't MFJJ say to mark off the WEAKEST side for the cock vane (as the arrow will always flex at the weakest spot...) Just thoughts Great vid by the way (as always) I've learnt so much from all your stuff! A CBE micro 3V video will be great as im about to buy one!

@ElkShape

5 ай бұрын

My take - make all your arrows uniform and shoot them. The micro details like this probably show up for world class archers - the rest of us probably cannot shoot the difference. I prefer cock vane on the stiffest side. -DS

@timmurphy3769

5 ай бұрын

@ElkShape Fair enough! I'm just a happy amateur! And I won't tell Josh if you don't lol Have a great day!

@dakotadickens8902

5 ай бұрын

@@ElkShape100% spot on most won’t shoot the difference and the key is uniformly to get consistency out of arrow reactions more than anything. Great content.

Hard to beat the Last Chance Arrow saw

Why not use MFJJs FOC calculator?!?

Skillabang

You're getting them too hot brother. I did it myself once. The only the hot milk melts pretty easily, but you know we all like to tanker and that's how we learn

4mm/.166 = micro 5mm/.204= small 6.5mm/.246= standard

I’m confused on the sizing is the 246 a 5mm? And the 166 do those come with inserts ?

@drewolm

5 ай бұрын

.246 is a standard diameter.

@calebwolff5983

5 ай бұрын

.204 is 5mm. These (.246) are "standard diameter" arrows.

@shaunpgee

5 ай бұрын

The .246 is your standard “6mm” diameter. Like a Gold Tip Hunter. The .166 do come with inserts. It’s a two piece system with a glue in post and a half out that threads onto the post.

@jordancarrillo3938

5 ай бұрын

Thanks guy appreciate it

I'm sure the Altra arrows are fine, but I'm seeing a lot of hype for them and little explanation on what makes them so great. Aluminum half out, yawn, oh it has an oring in the back valkyrie has a similar thing iirc. I'm sure they're fine, but I don't see anything that they're doing that another company isn't. Made in China, out of the old Black Eagle factory.

Hey, I love your video. I was wondering what your thoughts are on the KUDU points, Broadhead. I know you do Broadhead testing, so I was wondering if you could tell me your thoughts on them. Keep up the good work.

@ElkShape

5 ай бұрын

Haven't used those - I think Tyler or Jake or Tim or somebody has them in my circle of friends and so perhaps we'll get a chance to look at them! -DS

@user-dv7ry4tt1k

5 ай бұрын

Thank you so much. I'll be looking forward to your thoughts.

@user-dv7ry4tt1k

5 ай бұрын

And what's a couple of things I could be doing to help me be better at ElK hunting in Oregon?

It’ll be interesting if Altra will work on their gpi’s. Obviously a new company but those gpi numbers aren’t the best

@joeditz48

5 ай бұрын

I completely agree. Looks like I'm sticking with victory

@Just_AK23

5 ай бұрын

What's wrong with the gpi?

@joeditz48

5 ай бұрын

@Just_AK23 too much gpi leaves ypu with less options when it comes to component and vane options without the arrow getting crazy heavy. If you keep the shaft light, you can have a nice steel or titanium insert up front that will never bend, and you'll still be around the 420gr to 450gr weight. The 12gr aluminum insert included with these arrows are garbage.

These arrows are supposed to be spineless, did you guy find that there was definitely a stiff point or weak point on the shafts ?

@ElkShape

5 ай бұрын

From what I remember - Tyler said it was difficult to find the stiffest spot and that the tolerances were great - I didn't do that part so that's my best recall effort. -DS

I thought their deal was, there isn’t a “stiff spot” spine of the arrow..?

@ElkShape

5 ай бұрын

From what I remember - Tyler said it was difficult to find the stiffest spot and that the tolerances were great - I didn't do that part so that's my best recall effort. -DS

Easton arrows don’t need nock tuned either. Why switch from a reputable company?

@ElkShape

5 ай бұрын

UM... you can nock tune any arrow on the market in my experience, but the reason Tyler is trying these out is to tinker. No agenda, just trying to learn and bring ya along for the ride. -DS

@sheyanderson4371

5 ай бұрын

Altra is trying to grow their business, so they are sending out sets for review and signing Levi Morgan to help with that. Whether they stick with them or not, we will see, but more competition is always good because prices of arrows are getting ridiculous.

@ElkShape

5 ай бұрын

@@sheyanderson4371 Competition is good IMO! Thanks for watching. -DS

Oof...heard xfit and done watching

@ElkShape

5 ай бұрын

Bye Felicia

A few minutes, modifying your clamp you can get way more helical than easy fletch and I found them to be cheap Chinese junk so many ways to screw it up

How tall is this kid lol

In truth, the micro diameter arrows are no better in wind or penetration than a standard diameter. The wind isn’t going to ignore the broadhead and fletching. If you’re shooting a broadhead, even a 1” cutting diameter, the hole it makes takes the penetration out of the equation. Doesn’t matter if it’s a 4mm or a 2713.

@ElkShape

5 ай бұрын

IDK if what you're saying is gospel, but we certainly need to test more. Thanks for the feedback. I have used Axis Long Range and Black Eagle X-Impacts on animals and that's it when it comes to 4mm. -DS

@DavidBowCrazyBabyak86

5 ай бұрын

I disagree with your statement at least for me, I have proven it to myself with my equipment shooting arrow side by side one after another and get about the same results. Usually with wind drift penetration I seem to have passed throughs used 95% of the time. Didn't have them with the standard diameter arrow. Whenever I went down to my 4 mm it I got better penetration so I can't say for sure. But it only makes sense that it would penetrate better

@sheyanderson4371

5 ай бұрын

There are a lot of factors that go into bucking the wind, but in certain cases and setups, shaft diameter definitely plays a role. If shaft diameter didn't play a role in wind, every pro shooter would shoot the fattest arrow possible at every outdoor shoot. In regards to penetration, it's the same depending on the setup. A broadhead cut is done by the blades, but the hole that is created, in most broadheads, is from the ferrule or shaft. In cases of 4mm, most components in the ferrule are actually bigger than the shaft, so the hole created will be slightly bigger as the arrow comes through. How significant that difference is, I think is minimal with modern bows and arrows, but for some it will be a bigger factor than others.

@zachlewis9451

5 ай бұрын

It does help. I've shot em all. Micros the way to go. I shoot expandables, so the drag on the front end isn't as great as a fixed blade. Then the wound channel does close onto the shaft with the animals innards not just following a broadhead hole like it stays open. Idk

@Ashepnasty

5 ай бұрын

I’ve shot both. Micro does better in the wind IMO.

There is no advantage only disadvantages in going to 125gr points! You will lose 8fps, have more arrow drop, weaken the arrow spine and only going up roughly .5lb in k.e. you also will not get better penetration with higher f.o.c it has been proven many times by Joel Maxfield but the fairly sniffer think it does. Ashbys tests are moot when using a compound, he did all his testing with trad equipment and poved himself wrong when he shot completely through a buff with a 450gr arrow out of a Martin Worthog!

@paulheberling2750

5 ай бұрын

Bro, no! You’re crazy! Come on man which is harder to stop a semi going 80 or a train going 20? Come on man! It’s physics! Let’s get the 🧚 dust together

@tylerchubb3876

5 ай бұрын

I've killed more deer with "flappers" than the Fairy could probably kill in the rest of life! The fairy hasn't killed a deer with a bow in 20years, he's never killed an elk! But yet he tells everyone what the best setup is! He is a joke, he can't tune a bow and thinks that changing point weight is how to tune! Yes if I was only shooting 0-150lb pigs at a feeder at less than 20yds I'd use a fixed head and slightly heavier arrow but im from the midwest and shots can range from 0-120yds not just 20yds! I hadn't shot a deer with a fixed blade in over 20yrs and decided I would a few weeks ago and shot a doe quartering away, shattered the off side shoulder, arrow stuck in the ground! Oh and that was a 402gr arrow at 65lb draw

@paulheberling2750

5 ай бұрын

@@tylerchubb3876 bro, all I’m hearing is a bunch of experiences but no math! Bro it’s about the physics of the damn thing! If you want to use experience as a litmus test, go get me a pass thru on a cape buff or 🐘 with a 402 gr arrow. Then I’m all👂

Not a fan of components to much f-ery!

DAN!!! cmon man please for your health use a filtered mask or have a vacuum next to your arrow saw collecting the carbon dust or even better do both!! 🙏🫶