L3 has been making these for ten plus years. Supergain is simply a marketing term that TNVC came up with.

@kevin11288

10 ай бұрын

Not ten years but they’re not new. This video wasn’t intended to say anything different, just discuss them.

@atacorion

10 ай бұрын

L3 hasn’t been making them for 10+ years. Only about 2 years. SG is the marketing term L3 came up with that TNVC uses.

@kevin11288

10 ай бұрын

@@atacoriondo you would agree it’s about time someone did a no bs video on them? Lol

@atacorion

10 ай бұрын

@@kevin11288you’re about a year behind my video

@LordPerique

10 ай бұрын

​@@atacorionthey mean tube grades with H suffix, yes supergain technically is a separate grade, but very high gain variants have been around for a while.

Thanks for taking the time to make these videos. You’re a real one!

@customnightvision

4 ай бұрын

Glad you like them!

The Most GENUINE video ever made... I appreciate it!

@kevin11288

10 ай бұрын

Lol thanks man

Supergain are min 2376 fom per TNVC. Mine are over 2600. Supergain allow you to see through shadows better. But the best benefit I’ve found is that I can run caps so everything is in focus and still bright. Also 62% illum is high. Take these out in a 4% illum night and you’ll see a big difference

@kevin11288

10 ай бұрын

They’re not 2376 min.

@kevin11288

10 ай бұрын

They’re 1800 minimum.

@destroyerofgear

10 ай бұрын

@@kevin11288 If you go on TNVC they only sell supergains at 2376+ FoM at this point in time. I know there's some older units out there from before they refined the grade criteria and back when H tubes weren't on the open market, but any new supergain tubes from TNVC will be at least 2376 FoM.

@Austrveg

Ай бұрын

@@kevin11288 From their website: *ALL SYSTEMS WILL BE 2376+ MINIMUM FOM*

Man it’s tough to tell a significant difference. Last 2 tubes are really nice.

@kevin11288

10 ай бұрын

Yeah, In a darker setting the difference can be more apparent. I think they’re cool but not a must have. For guys in like zero illumination environments it’s a useful increase but I’d say for most it’s a wash. I’d say manual gain is a must if you go the super gain route as well..

@nvg.expert

9 ай бұрын

@@kevin11288 This video once again confirms my previous viewpoint: under moonlight, it's challenging to distinguish between the two types of devices. Evidently, both the filmless tubes and the super gain tubes cannot fully utilize their entire gain capabilities under moonlight due to the environment not being dark enough. The brightness of a moonlit environment can reach up to two decimal places, while brightness within a jungle can go down to the fourth or fifth decimal place. It's only in such conditions that the performance differences become noticeable. For instance, in an urban environment, differentiating between the 25k-gain Echo, 70k-gain Elbit, and 63k-gain L3harris is a challenge. A dimmer environment is absolutely necessary. Naturally, as the gain power continues to near 100%, both the Signal-to-Noise Ratio (SNR) and image resolution degrade exponentially. When the brightness falls to six decimal places, the actual resolution would decrease by a factor of 10 (68lp/mm to 9 - 10lp/mm), and the actual SNR would plummet a hundredfold (SNR 32 to 15 - 12 ) . Therefore, in even darker settings, tubes with a higher gain will exhibit superior resolution and a better signal-to-noise ratio under low light conditions. I believe this epitomizes the true value of the super gain tube. For consumers, the biggest oversight of L3harris's super gain product is the failure to enhance the output brightness. I've had experience with the PVS31K, which can attain an output brightness of 8. Its effect is impressively stark, bordering on blinding. However, the newly introduced super gain tubes today generally don't surpass an output brightness of 3.3, with filmless tubes being even dimmer, typically below 3. To offer a tangible experiential difference to users, L3harris should elevate the output brightness of their tubes as a selling point. In the end, as you rightly pointed out, for tubes with higher gain capabilities, manual gain adjustment is indispensable. Lastly, I have a question: when will you start selling super gain tubes?

The Nocturn Industries Chimera Pano bridge is nice. I cant wait for the entire unit to be available

@kevin11288

8 ай бұрын

I cant wait to see a real prototype. Lots of confusion surrounding this product. the entire housing is still just a concept. optical system has yet to be made. Currently it is just a Bridge that accepts pods from other panos like GPNVGs. so if you don't already have GPNVGs you would need to get those first.

@santanagamingcinema

8 ай бұрын

@@kevin11288 they actually had a protype at Shot Show. A couple of people tried them on. I'm not sure if they were able to actually turn them on and use them, lol. I couldn't see any light emitting from the rear glass onto their faces so I'm guessing they weren't able to actually turn on. But quads can be difficult to see that effect due to how wide they are. I already have a pair of quads. The Chimera bridge is cool but I don't really want the bridge. I want the entire housing to transfer my image intensifiers. The bridge is $2,500 and the entire housing will cost $7,500 as of now. They say they are planning to come out quarter one of 2024. I hope they keep to it.

I think supergain is cool as long as I have manual gain control. I don't need to stare at the sun the entire time

@kevin11288

10 ай бұрын

Agreed.

Good comparison. I did a series of shorts comparing pretty high SNR supergains and L3 unfilmed tubes but my NV recorder wasn't a very fair comparison since it kept autoadjusting the video. I generally agree with your conclusions. There's definitely more noise with the SGs, though they do provide some advantage in very low light levels. My takeaway was that the jump from 24UA to 24UAH was similar to the jump between unfilmed and thin filmed, providing an advantage in pretty much the same set of environments and lighting conditions, though to a slightly lesser degree. I would encourage you to test them out again at 0-10% background illumination in the woods and/or somewhere else with 3 bortle or less where you'll see more of that advantage, you'll still get some of the benefits at 60% such as being able to see deeper into the shadows but it's kind of like taking a Porche on the highway: yeah you'll have some opportunities for the car to shine but on the track you'll see all of it.

@kevin11288

8 ай бұрын

Yeah we will probably do that. I wanted to use the most common lighting conditions for 90% of users for the initial comparison. I feel like if a tailor the comparison with a bias in favor of the SG it wouldn't be an accurate assessment for the majority of viewers. BUT, i do want to do another analysis in conditions more suited to highlight their added capabilities. Paying more for 24UA tubes doesn't make sense to me when most of the 20UAs we get are above 24UA minimums lol.

Thanks for the video, guys. The super’s and standard’s comparisons are definitely noticeable. Not like 2x brighter, but enough to be able to see the image differences. Pricing will determine a lot. Is the 100K+ gain tube really “worth a premium” over a 67K gain tube? No wrong answers IMO. Oh, and yes, manual gain is a must.

@kevin11288

10 ай бұрын

It’s all personal preference.

Tube #2 is really impressive

@kevin11288

10 ай бұрын

It is

Increasing gain on image sensors provides more power to it having the effect of increasing the sensors sensitivity. Comparative example is when you increase ur ISO on ur camera ur really just increasing the image sensors gain.

@customnightvision

5 күн бұрын

yeah?

great test

My first impression is, that the supergain removes the shadows quite well.

@customnightvision

3 ай бұрын

good observation.

went back and re-watched this again and my 2 cents hasn't changed. S/N seems to be the single most important spec when comparing tubes, provided some other spec is not totally out of whack. FOM is almost useless due to my eyes not being able to tell the difference between 64, 72 and higher line pair. after seeing a post on P&S about L3 making these tubes for the South Korean military and they not being happy with them and returning the entire run back to L3 which then made a deal with TNVC to sell them to civilians, it made me wonder just what the truth is. from what I can see in videos like this the SG tubes are brighter at the expense of image quality, they seem to perform a bit better but with more grain and loss of detail. I'd have to compare them side by side in person to really tell if they would be worth the extra $$ or not. that's a BIG risk to take if you are ordering tubes without a in person viewing experience. Thanks for the great videos!

The first image is clear, the supergain image is blurred - Is this just for me?

contrast is more important, standard gain and low ebi all day

@kevin11288

10 ай бұрын

What I’m finding the more I compare and research.. a lot of “rules” associated with intensifier tubes are actually preferences and opinions. Everyone has their favorite flavor.

@SuperXrayDoc

10 ай бұрын

Ebi is one of the least important specs for shooting with nods

@ikemouser2580

10 ай бұрын

@@SuperXrayDoc lmao no. tell me you dont actually train without telling me you dont actually train.

Thanks

@kevin11288

10 ай бұрын

Thank you!

If you get a manual gain housing would you say that it’s beneficial to go the supergain route over a standard 1800 FOM L3 tube?

@customnightvision

2 ай бұрын

Yeah definitely.

I came here for the feet, I found no feet.

All of those tubes look good, but i would say that all 3 of those super gain tubes are definitely providing more usable information compared to the standard gain counterparts. Its hard to make a call because even the low FOM tubes lool good. Hell, tube #2 looks really good for 1800 FOM. I just purchased a device with a high spec L3 supergain tube from you guys and i am blown away by the performance. L3 was definitely the correct choice 🤌

@customnightvision

3 ай бұрын

Hell yeah man we appreciate it.

Great vid!

@kevin11288

10 ай бұрын

Thank you!

I want to try supergain next to a high spec in person. Its hard to tell the contrast over the screen. (Edit: #5 standard looks allot like #6 super and I would say better than #2super. spec 2600+fom with good Snr and low lp is very close..

@kevin11288

10 ай бұрын

The way we recorded it, it’s extremely close to what you would see in person.

Im thinkin high spec supergain tubes in a variable gain rnvg,

@kevin11288

10 ай бұрын

Not a bad plan.

#5 is nicceeee

@kevin11288

10 ай бұрын

Yes it is

@nickadkins7765

10 ай бұрын

@@kevin11288 respectively they are all nice but #5 is just hittin

@kevin11288

10 ай бұрын

@@nickadkins7765 lmfao

Is it just me or does the standard L3 tube look better? 🤔

@customnightvision

2 ай бұрын

Its all personal opinion man.

@tfunai8164

Ай бұрын

@@customnightvisionWhy do the supergain tubes seen to have a lower SNR & Resolution (as a whole, not always)?

@aesthetic8780

Ай бұрын

Yes, they look worse at high gain. But you can turn them down to standard gain. Then it looks normal. L3 lacks heavily in MTF. That's the reason why Elbit and Photonis looks better in comparison. But supergains are the best in low light. That's the price you pay. You can't get everything in once.

The focus was butchered on half of these.

@customnightvision

3 ай бұрын

We have since upgraded the camera equipment to ensure quality footage and with consistency.

Some misinfo in this video

@kevin11288

10 ай бұрын

Please explain

@atacorion

10 ай бұрын

@@kevin11288right off the bat the LG range for a standard gain tube is 65k +/- 5000 set at the factory by L3H, not 60-69k, hell you even had some tubes with an LG above 69k in the video.

@kevin11288

10 ай бұрын

@@atacorionper the data sheet it’s 40k to 80k.. I said most are in between 60 and 69 in reality I meant 60 to less than 70.

@kevin11288

10 ай бұрын

@@atacorionthat would be the same as 65k +/- 5000 lol

@atacorion

10 ай бұрын

@@kevin11288 where’s that last 1000 Fl/Fc They are 65k +/- 5k, that’s as per the head test engineer at L3H

Good day. I live in Ukraine, right now I am a military man, and I am fighting for independence and democracy against Russia. I need your products to perform combat missions in combat operations, and specifically PVS-14. Can I buy PVS-14 with delivery to Ukraine?

@kevin11288

10 ай бұрын

No.

@plazmaballs1024

10 ай бұрын

No. Lol