This is very specific topic for a very few people, but for those very few people, its very useful and good content, thank you for focusing more on quality and not quantity with your audience, I very appreciate it.

I am someone who has owned a Photonis XR5 (GP) with FOM 1760 - and Elbit XLSH (WP) FOM 2357. They both are fantastic tubes (Elbit + Photonis) , with unique pro's and cons, depending on your intended use and environment. Its really quite a simple comparison when your not heavily invested in selling them to your audience. Personally, i dont trust company reviews, as they are heavily biased, and some are outright bullshit artists. Lets list the important stuff. 1. Photonis being "gen 2 plus" means jack diddly shit in the real world. Dont let these generation designations sway your decision. Photonis are very advanced tubes, and will continue to push the technological boundaries in the future, whereas gen 3 has less room for technological growth in comparison. In short, Photonis gen 2+ is shit hot. 2. The crucial factor in your decision depends upon your use and environment. If you live out in the deep dark boonies, gen 3 has the clear advantage, and is my clear choice, its a no brainer. gen3 light amplication can never be beaten by photonis, non of their current tubes, xd4, xr5, echo, echo+, 4g, nor their flagship 4g+ can outperform a elbit xlsh (unless your xlsh is a dud with min spec). For deep dark booonies, go for gen 3. Simple. 3. For urban, semi urban and even semi rural, Photonis is going to give you better resolution and far better auto-gating. This will mean any lights in the distance, or a farm building I.R security light will be ironed out beautifully by the Photonis. Whereas gen 3 is going to be a large halo and lower resolution, meaning a worst image than photonis. When i say semi rural, i mean being out in the countryside, with a large town or city nearby, or street lamps 2km away, or lots of farm ir lights etc. This environment will give plenty of sky glow, and give the Photonis all it needs to provide a decent image. Gen 3 will drop in resolution if you have any manmade light source in the distance. The halo is also larger on gen 3. No dog in the fight, as i own both. And if i was heading into semi rural, i'm taking the photonis device. If i'm driving out to the woods, or a hike 15 miles away from town, i'm taking the gen 3. Follow this advice, and you wont go wrong in your decision.

@darthhelmet8532

Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@Arkayne

9 ай бұрын

Great way to summarize

@dhonda250r

8 ай бұрын

Is there a happy medium between the two for the guy who can't afford 2 different setups??? Thanks

@PaulMcDonagh-rv6vc

8 ай бұрын

@@dhonda250r If I had the choice again, I would go for a top of the line Photonis 4g+. In the US 4g+ is just called 4g. So if you are in the US, go for a top of the line 4g with minimum FOM of 2300+. Or wait a little while, because I know for 100% certain that photonis USA is about to launch their new flagship 5g tube. Price TBC. Hope this may help. .

@ScullCandy56

8 ай бұрын

There isn't its either photonis or Elbit or you go balls to the walls and go completely broke and get L3Harris filmless There's chinese NNVT but they're worse than all 3 I just mentioned. you could try to make up for the lack of resolution in deep woods with a Jerry C coti for some thermal fusion to pick up heat signatures of people/animals that you can't resolve/see because of the lack of deep woods complete darkness resolution for an extra $3k on top of your device cost or the lower resolution Jerry C for about $2k extra@@dhonda250r

Just a heads up, I've spoken with Photonis previously and the Photonis tubes that are sold stateside or made here in the US. There are two locations in the US- one in Sturbridge, Massachusetts and another in Lancaster, PA.

This is an excellent set to speak about this topic on, having multiple camera angles is cool too. Great video and audio quality, deserves more views.

I'll finally have the funds to buy a tube next week, after some time saving and abstaining - and I'm currently back and forth between these very two tubes. The conversation I really needed to hear. Good post.

@manscapedgrinch1427

Жыл бұрын

In the same boat.. which way you leaning in terms of what tube you plan on grabbing?

@ungerjs90

Жыл бұрын

@@manscapedgrinch1427 I think I'm just going to go with the cheaper Photonis Echo. It'll still meet my requirements since I'll only really be using it for hunting hogs. If I was using it for dangerous work then I'd probably pony up the difference for the Elbit but I simply don't need too. I'll just get the surefire V2 to make up for the lower brightness on the photonis.

@manscapedgrinch1427

Жыл бұрын

@@ungerjs90 I keep leaning in that direction.. mines effectively going to be used for the same thing.. the occasional hog hunt, and for running off Coyote or foxes. I hope you enjoy yours.

I agree with Ethan, I built my PVS-14 with an Elbit XLSH 2770.2 FOM, high Luminous, low EBI, and Halo, and it's ultra-clear!

Great info. What's your take on video reviews on the Photonis tubes having issues with "flickering" when used in conjunction with some external IR devices?

Excellent guys to deal with! Bought a set of 14s WP photonis last year and very nice tubes, after sale customer service A+

@warrentotheg

Жыл бұрын

RH25 through Ethan. Great experience.

Exactly what I needed to hear! Mahalo

I have to say I've been entering this rabit hole and am saving up to build out a Nocturn Tanto. This video is immensely helpful as I am also budget minded. It really seems as though the Photonis option is a "no lose" choice

@Arkayne

Жыл бұрын

Folks like to bash photonis, when in reality Photonis is the largest intensifier tube manufacturer on the planet. And they make amazing tubes. Not sure why everyone decided to hate on them so much, but they are some of the cleanest and most consistent tubes we run.

@CageyTroller

10 ай бұрын

@@Arkayne it's just a bunch of redditors who just want to sound smart on their forums, sure you own that gear on r/qualitytaticalgear or r/nightvision but they don't go outside.. it's all a fasion sub lol

@Kevin-di6lf

9 ай бұрын

@@Arkayne Only US people are bashing photonis just because it's not american (it's French). Photonis was born later than Elbit, and had less experience. But I think nowadays, this delay may be almost caught up.

@selmevias1383

8 ай бұрын

@@Arkayne Because it's French.

This is the first source I've seen speaking positively about Photonis. Thanks for the perspective

@Arkayne

Жыл бұрын

Photonis is our first choice in almost all circumstances

The right answer is gen 3 aviation grade L3 unfilmed WP.

I have a Elbit Pinnacle green phos tube in my 14 and when I tried on my friends photonis bino it kinda blew my eyes out because I was adjusted to the dark. I also noticed the image wasn't as clear as my 14. Will probably never own an auto gain tube because of that.

My question is, which Nods/Tubes create that very deep Blue Color?

Great info, thanks. I just picked up a set of Katanas with photonis that have 2300 FOM, thoughts? Would i even see a difference between those and Elbit?

@apollo9x19

Жыл бұрын

youre not missing out between photonis/elbit. extremely comparable

Is there any truth to the photonis tubes not lasting as long? I saw a video not long ago where they stated that photonis tubes have a much quicker expiration than elbit and l3

To be fair, it's can sometimes be more appropriate for non experienced user to determine what they see is a better tube than those with tons of experience and bias. More like first time and raw opinions.

I've had three different OMNI 8 tubes, very nice and capable. Next week I'll have a pair of ECHO+ tubes with 32SNR and 72RES and we'll be able to compare them. I don't expect them to do worse than the OMNI8s.

@RunningWithSauce

10 ай бұрын

and?

10 ай бұрын

@@RunningWithSauce They are what I expected and more. WP really works better for my eyes. Clarity and definition are excellent, and the reaction to light sources is much faster. I'm very happy with the Echo+ and I consider them an upgrade.

@markanthonypar-wise1499

4 ай бұрын

​@really? Photonis echo is better then the Omnii tubes ? I have a WP photonis echo too just curious how they compare to gen 3 Omnii even tho gen doesn't really matter

Given that the echos are 4G fallouts (most of the time), would that out of band sensitivity perhaps be inconsistent between tube to tube, or in fact the reason the tube itself fell out of 4G classification?

@apollo9x19

Жыл бұрын

probably, but not as much as you'd think. that out of band sensitivity comes from the chemistry of the photocathode section of the intensifier tube. band sensitivity probably correlates directly with the purity of the chemicals and elements used to create the photocathode, as well as overall sensitivity of the tube.

1:11 the rifle buttstock casually sitting in a fire

How is the Photonis 4G? Or is that the same as the echo?

Love the talk. Love seat Got me feeling a bit weird tho. Captains chairs might be less dangerous.

@Arkayne

7 ай бұрын

We like living dangerously 🤷🏻‍♂️ 🤣

Right now I'm running an Elbit xlsh with 2200 FOM qnd thinking about going to dual tubes. Think it would be a gain going to dual tube photonis?

@Arkayne

7 ай бұрын

If your looking for out of band width ability or more simply put the ability to see a 1064 laser and or illuminator Photonis tubes are the best option on the market.

Why is L3 not considered here? Just wondering because I’ve been looking at an l3 tube from US Night Vision. Also what is the difference between the L3 tube they sell and the non L3 branded tubes included in their turnkey bundles? Having a hard time figuring all this out, I’m brand new.

@Arkayne

Жыл бұрын

We prefer Elbit and Photonis to unfilmed L3. ESPECIALLY in units with no gain adjustment. That being said, we build and offer L3 if that’s what the customer wants. Many L3 units have longer lead times and much higher prices. In our opinion there’s as MASSIVE diminishing return when considering L3. Most people would be better off spending less on the unit and putting remaining cash towards training, lasers, optics, illuminators etc. no hate towards L3. We just don’t prefer them. Photonis is our favorite tube in almost all cases.

@Ronin-636

3 ай бұрын

@@Arkaynewhat do you think of these new GP high fom photonis units I’m seeing high spec

Comparison makes sense when you compare items at their peak performance. Throwing in 2 images made in not very difficult conditions will not give you any idea of capabilties.

Could you perhaps use comparison images that aren't so bright there's clear shadows from the moon? It's not really very useful 😕

@Arkayne

Жыл бұрын

Let me summarize: you will not be able to see a sizeable difference between a 1900+ FOM Photonis and any other intensifier tube on the market. There. Much better.

I've used both and 90%+ of people would be great with cheaper and training other than walking around the block in the dark...

SNR being 36 on the XLSH and only being 28 on the Photonis is the biggest difference.

@ballinonabudget1130

Жыл бұрын

Not he biggest difference is the resolution. 81 res is cheating and will bring the FOM up a lot when in reality it is no where near a better tube

@justinw.7641

Жыл бұрын

​​@@ballinonabudget1130 SNR matters more IMO, the sole purpose is being able to see in the dark. High SNR nets better performance in less light. The res helps sure but if you can't see the image (too noisy) the res means little. This is why fom alone is pointless unless you know SNR and res. Res does matter just not more than SNR, imo.

I see the ECHO much much more detailed from the elbit.. I can’t be the only one seeing that

In my opinion, based on cost / value. I don't see the benefits of photonis. Now that there isn't a year plus wait on the American tubes and the photonis cost has gone up making them nearly as much money.

@davideinstein7887

Жыл бұрын

THIS ^^^^^^^^^

In your guys experience do you see photonis tubes with streaking when you look at a bright light source

@Arkayne

8 ай бұрын

Photonis tubes for the most part do not "streak" as easily as the other tube options on the market. It is possible but takes a-lot more to do it.

Are you comparing these two units with the same numbers?

@Arkayne

7 ай бұрын

The two units in the video have drastically different specs, they are actually over 1000 FOM different. That fact should definitely be considered while watching and it should actually show you quite clearly the "law" of diminishing return in this night vision market. When you spend more you will get higher specs but how much more functionality do you get as you spend more to obtain higher specs? Everyone looking to purchase night vision should ask themselves this.

this video couldnt be better timing for me

@Arkayne

Жыл бұрын

Hit us up if you have questions or need help getting into a unit

Can you see the milkyway true a photonis echo?

Holy shit this is confusing.. I went to your site to order some I thought pvs14 was a pvs14 and all I had to do was choose green or white lol now I gotta rethink this whole thing. Can I call your shop and get some more info? I’m trying to follow along here but this is a big investment I want to be sure I’m making the right choice.

@Arkayne

5 ай бұрын

Absolutely, email cs@arkayne.com and you can schedule a call with an expert to help you decide what is best for you 👊

@Haikeoutdoor

5 ай бұрын

We are a professional outdoor sports equipment manufacturer, completely independent in design and production. We have various types of night vision devices. Welcome to talk about it.

What about the 4G photonis tubes vs an Echo?

@Arkayne

Жыл бұрын

Negligible difference depending on specs of the echo. We curate high spec echo and 4G. Very, very negligible difference. 4G are higher specs, but they ALL start from the exact same manufacturing process. echos are 4G tubes that don’t meet “4G Spec”.

@senator7352

Жыл бұрын

@@Arkayne 4G+ tubes can have gains of up to 35,000, which when translated to US gain measurements can be up to 80,000 equiv of a max spec L3 tube, so not entirely true im afraid, you just cant get these tubes because they are almost entirely exclusively reserved for LE/MIL in europe.

@senator7352

Жыл бұрын

@@Arkayne Almost all high spec echo tubes fail due to the gain, most 4G tubes that pass gain spec will have gain higher than 20k+ (the MIL/LE reserved ones that is)

@ngaoutdoors4157

Жыл бұрын

@@senator7352 Well I can assure you that the echo tubes I have in my dual 14 setup are excellent and I have other high spec GP that I have had for years and take these echo tubes all day long!

@senator7352

Жыл бұрын

@@ngaoutdoors4157 I have a set of Photonis 2000fom binos myself and they are amazing, but I also have 2700fom L3 binos and they are only better in ridiculously dark environments tbh

Bro got that poverty vision

@Arkayne

9 ай бұрын

We have every type of nightvision and thermal you could imagine. There’s nothing poverty about Photonis. They make amazing tubes.

elbit is better