Should probably make it more clear the certain default traits that are not optional, and can't be swapped out, like the gnomes size.

@Altonahk

5 ай бұрын

My Gnome has giantism. 😜

Considering the connection to Lore, this makes the ancestry system Campaign Setting agnostic and flexible. Someone with a different world and different lore could get rid of some of the ancestry traits and replace them with similar ones for their world. This is amazing

@TheDungeonCoach

6 ай бұрын

Exactly! Easily mix and matchable to lore too!

Angelborn + Fireborn... PHOENIXBORN!!!

I love how this is so intuitive even the players could homebrew their own ancestries!! (if the GM is cool with it of course)

I love this ancestry system, it solves a lot of problems and is very elegant.

I made a half elfe-orc :) ranger with Cursed Mind, Provocation, Nimble, Peerless Sight, Orc Rush, Orcish Resolve, Plant Knowledge. he or she will be using spear, net & bolas ... I love what you did with the weapons as well, most of them have a different feel. It is great.

@TheDungeonCoach

6 ай бұрын

Wow! I love to hear all the different characters people are making! So cool!!!

I invested in the Alpha... Looks fantastic so far. Have already made a custom Feline race - I wish the "core" classes were fleshed out a bit - specifically, was looking for Bard. But I cannot wait for more updates.

@TheDungeonCoach

6 ай бұрын

Oh my gosh! 0.6 might be perfect for you then! It will have the Beast-born ancestries along with the bard!

@ramblingryan6466

6 ай бұрын

Can't wait then :)

This sounds exactly like the "elf and an orc had a little baby" book method for 5e, but for your system, and i absolutely love that

My players love this system! Can’t wait for more ancestries.

Might Decrease, Agility Decrease, Frail, Unholy Weakness, Divine Dampening, Giant's Resolve, Orcish Resolve, Nimble, Elusive, Draconic Ward, Human Resolve, Iron Stomach, and Unbreakable. These are the ancestry features of "Annie Percent", a 1HP Monk.

A great system, I love it. One issue I have is there is no cost for combining ancestries, so it's strictly a more optimal mechanical choice. Why have to choose from one list of features when you can choose from two? Creating your own ancestry does costs 1 ancestry point after all

@elhombredequeso

6 ай бұрын

I could see two solutions to this. The more complicated one would be to lock certain abilities behind a "full" ancestry. Another potentially more simple to understand and implement would be to have a zero point cost negative to choosing a half ancestry. Or maybe just a choice between you can pick 5 points, but you have to put a -1 into an ability score, or you don't take that penalty but get only 4 points.

@melchiorkaczmarzyk5165

6 ай бұрын

@@elhombredequeso Both solution could work great, the second one is pretty smooth and would work better in a rule book, but as a GM I would always consider the first solution

@thegreatandterrible4508

6 ай бұрын

Whether this is a problem is a question of lore. Because, like, if you have an American style melting pot, then mixed race is kind of the norm.

@melchiorkaczmarzyk5165

6 ай бұрын

@@thegreatandterrible4508 Not really, it's a problem from a mechanical point of view regardless of lore

@thegreatandterrible4508

6 ай бұрын

@@melchiorkaczmarzyk5165 How is it a mechanical issue, when it's available to everyone? It's just a different form of character customization.

I’d go Angel-born / Tiefling! I haven’t had a chance to see all the traits yet but I’d love to see the character that has their foot in both worlds

Ha ha ha Coach going "Focus" was very relatebol Love how costumizebol this is and how evry character can truly be difrent even if evryone has the same encesterie

When you mentioned the gnome angelborn mixed ancestry, i just imagined playing a Cherub hahah

This sounds really really awesome. I am a bit worried about the negative traits, especially the optional ones, giving you more points though. I am worried that people will find negatives traits that seem bad but in actual play don't have much of an impact, and use them to stack on more positive traits that do impact actual play.

@TheDungeonCoach

6 ай бұрын

Yes! That is something that is being heavily monitored as well!

@VanillaGorilla42

6 ай бұрын

Players being players will always try to optimize, but the GM should look over and approve any build. Example; the Dwelf has (elf) agile explorer(+2), (dwarf) short legs(-2), (elf) frail(-1) dwarf steady(+2), (elf) elven will(+1), (dwarf) tremor sense(+1), elf agility(+2). I tried to balance a positive of one ancestry with a negative of the other, but still fun

@groovydude4511

6 ай бұрын

@@VanillaGorilla42 Yeah, you're totally right. But really any problematic design can be handwaved by the DM or a player respecting the spirit of the game. It'd be preferable if the problem didn't exist in the first place.

@selthafour6948

6 ай бұрын

A GM ought to target both their player’s strengths and weaknesses, make your player’s choices relevant. Letting them know you intend to do so ahead of time may make curb their point collection, or it may be fun for them to anticipate the challenges to come.

This sounds like a very cool system that oozes a lot of personality for individuals, rather than a race! My only problem is that the most "optimal" way to play seems to be to always pick a half-something because it gives you more options at no cost. Maybe have a soft restriction, like only being able to pick features that cost 1 Point as to limit the more powerful 2 or 3 cost one to single ancestries? Or have it a small cost, like a 1 Point investment to be a half-race at all.

@selthafour6948

6 ай бұрын

Is it the end of the world if most players play as mixed race? You could say you’re 1/16th human if u really don’t want it to affect your character’s appearance/background. Maybe Coaches world is just less segregated than the Sword Coast?

@caurd

2 ай бұрын

@@selthafour6948 It is not that it is "the end of the world", but that it is not balanced. OC is right, mixed breeds are clearly stronger than pure breeds with those rules. The solution that they can only choose 1 point traits seems reasonable to me.

@JohnRieping

7 күн бұрын

@@selthafour6948 The fantasy world might slightly resemble real life more if most everyone is mixed race

This gave me a contented sigh. So elegant and well-thought out, able to appeal to many different audiences! Min-maxing with the negative traits sounds rather fun, both mechanically and narratively. Hopefully it ends out balanced too, haha!

LORE!!!

I have never seen or met anyone in my whole life who drains my social battery faster than dungeon coach, but a lot of his ideas are really really good. Also, I'm here for the "short skittery gnome feel".

Only a few minutes in and this gives me big Project Zomboid vibes with the negative traits and I looove it 😍😱

I like this ancestry system, the Peerless sight trait is exactly how I'd like to represent my elves superior vision. I'd love to hear about the lore and whether your planning to create adventures for this system.

I love the fact that we see the exact same issues on previous systems and have a very similar idea on how to solve it! In my system I've also called it ancestry points!

DC20, so far, looks to be THE best TTRPG ever created. I love how your rule system works for both mechanical-minded gamers and pure RPG gamers.

@TheDungeonCoach

6 ай бұрын

Omg… I just shook my head and fist pumped out of sheer joy for you saying this! Thank you so much for that!!

@JimyRoze

6 ай бұрын

I think when we get the lore we pure RPG nuts will have more to go on. My brother is more critical of DC20 and he has some valid critiques (one that we share is a dislike of how stamina works) but overall I think it will prove superior to dnd. That said it isn't exactly what we were hoping for so still working on our own system. Maine feature is no classes. Gana just be perk trees but there will be pre-designed paths to take to get the idea of a class, I think. Heavily inspired by skyrim and DC20 and of course 5e and pathfinder.

I love this system and it's like a fully realized version of my own thoughts on how to make races. This way you can have half of anything and there's no confusion. You could even put together a family tree of various half breeds and then make a fun amalgamation of various traits across several races. Bonus pints if the family tree are former PCs.

@JohnRieping

7 күн бұрын

It's a good feature to steal from Pathfinder 2nd Edition

Really impressed by the concept of negative traits and how this helps resolve the small-medium creature divide. Overall the point based system seems very granular to me even as an optional system and may cause difficulties with balancing/overlapping character features, but in the context of how DC20 focuses on customization i think it works really well.

@TheDungeonCoach

6 ай бұрын

I think the implementation of default traits and balancing the points of all traits across the board will help with this :) thanks man!

@dungeondr

6 ай бұрын

​@@TheDungeonCoach For sure default traits alleviate the complexity problems so it's still very approachable for new players! (FYI below is a comparison of the Ancestry system I'm working on vs DC20 and Tales of the Valiant, engage/ignore with as you like since you've got your own design vision!) My personal approach has been to implement ancestry features as a two tier approach, with a primary set of features representing ~3-4 points in your system and secondary features representing ~1-2 points in your system. Depending on the ancestry they may have multiple primary features to choose from or multiple secondary features to choose from (choices representing the "sub-race" elements of an ancestry). Animal folk have multiple primary and secondary features to choose from to cover the variety present there, and mixed ancestries are achieved by picking one primary and one secondary feature. It's a mechanic I reuse for creating custom Animal Companions, Familiars and to an extent Wild Shape forms (i.e. a focus on features, rather than templates). Part of this approach was a reaction to the approach taken in Tales of the Valiant, which tries to evenly balance the power level of their "heritage" and "cultural" features, but in practice players would just choose the most powerful instances and combinations of heritage and culture in combination with their classes. I mitigate this by reducing the relative power of one of the decisions, so that the potential overall variance between the power of different combinations is much less. The Tales of the Valiant effect could in theory happen in DC20 (e.g. some 2 pointer features might in theory be a lot stronger than others), but the granularity of features being scored on a point system should mitigate it. None of this is to say one approach is "right", but it's interesting how the three systems for mixed ancestries compare! As for the small/medium character divide my personal approach has been to implement many class features which can help small ancestries circumvent their inherent weaknesses (e.g. barbarians have a feature that let's them ignore heavy weapon penalties) and I may implement feats that require you be a small character (e.g. AC buffs relating to smaller size) so there're additional design options granted by being small.

This is very cool. I am looking forward to your system. I am also loving Kobold Press's TOV and how they are doing Heritage and Lineage. These improved "racial" systems provide so much more versatility to your characters.

I think this is a really cool idea. This feels a lot of an idea I had of a variant Custom Lineage that's a modified version of the Detect Balance race table.

I wanna play a half ogre wizard.

Seems cool. Im looking forward to creating a Mul (half dwarf, half human) and a Karsite (magic resistant human)

OK a) I am looking forward to my copy of the game when it comes out, sounds groundbreaking and b) I am getting BIG Vince Offer vibes from your energy my friend, because like him you have a lot of energetic charisma!

Reminds me a lot of Savage Worlds, which is great because I love that character creation system.

ngl, I just stumbled across this for the first time (thanks to the KZread algorithm), and this ancestry system already has my attention. I really like the flexibility and variety showcased here. Hell, even with just the info in this video, I find myself coming up with a fair number of ideas for potential characters in regards to ancestries alone. It's already proving to be a refreshing change from the more static race choices from other TTRPGs, that's for sure!

This video randomly came on my feed and I am elated to say , I’ve found GOLD. You are awesome bud!🎉

I fucking love how modular this system is

The point system is great. You are showing how the sausage is made. These kind of race "points" exist in 5e they just aren't broken down and explained like this.

I've always wanted to play an infernal/fae type character. I found a homebrew race for 4e called the Daemonfey and I fell in love with it. And! With the custom lineage rule I can finally make ratfolk that aren't lycanthropes and also piglins I am in love with this

I love that. Let you custom ancestry for your own setting.

Been looking forward to this video since I got hooked on DC 20!

This looks so much better than 5e in every way. Reminds me of the Skills and Powers rules from AD&D 2e.

Great video, Coach! I love the system. I should show you what all I landed on for Kein in our one shot. I had so many traits, it looked broken. Lol!

Its so fun trying to figure out builds using the ancestry system

Maybe there should be a "generic" race that you can only pick as a secondary race with a broad range of abilities.

I need all the ancestries and the lore!!! Great job coach

Add two points for a heroic game.

Wow. ❤ Thank you Coach.

you can also give a fixed vigor trait to half and half, so they still have 5 total points, but one less to choose.

okay I've been kind of under-whelmed by most of these, but this is actually cool.

as soon as i heard about this custom ancestry system i had to back the kickstarter this is just way too cool and makes racial features and lore soooo much more interesting than how dnd does it.

This is awesome.

tiefling and Aasimar mix is what I'll be going for!

7:42 that is me, I am the lore hound.

Loving each new update Coach! Say, what value do you think you'd assign to a damage immunity for a racial trait if someone wanted to homebrew that? 4? 5? 6?

Had toMake the Dwelf, based on the description Dungeon Coach gave.

I've been contemplating a Zelda campaign I've had in the back of my mind. I'll play around a bit with this ancestry system and see how it fits with the tribes of Zelda.

So i did a thing. I suggested to OSQ about the idea of doing a hotline all about DC20 with the thought of you being in chat and a discord call to help answer questions. Idk if it will happen but its a idea. mix teifling + orc = Hell Boy

As i am a 8-6 worker working paycheck to paycheck and cant afford the high level patron tier that would allow for 1-1 or bits of your time. I would say that I wouldnt mind working with you on further improving the systems you have in place so far. seeing many of the parallels from you and your teams thought processes and my own,.

With as cool as this is, basically making it lore cannon that all races are cross-fertile? I would be so very tempted to make make a character that's got the human ancestry template, but lore-wise he's half-halfling, half giant. Just for the roleplay fun.

DC 20 is looking amazing Also FIRST

Sounds great. One little concern I have as with the many options from action economy and resource pools (fury, mana etc.) … I hope it does not offer too many options to play fluently. Less is good sometimes. 2-4 would still give much room for optimancers but might reduce complexity a bit. It surely needs to be checked on a birds eye viewpoint with all other options at hand.

@JimyRoze

6 ай бұрын

Fair point but I wouldn't want it to end up like PF2 where there are dozens of options but there's only one or two good ones so there isn't really a choice. Half the feats in that game could be cut and no one would notice.

@jf649

6 ай бұрын

@@JimyRoze definitely not. You are totally right. I see the same in 5E also. It ends in people always having the same feats for instance.

@JimyRoze

6 ай бұрын

@@jf649 Yea I see something similar happening with prime attributes in DC20 and Im afraid of that. My brother and I are still working on our own "6e" and I am trying to make it more proficiency focused, so that abilities have an effect and are certainly important, but trained skill (represented by proficiency) has a greater impact. For that reason we are taking a more video gamey/PF2 approach and making proficiency bonus vary from one skill to another. Its one thing I really liked when I tried PF2.

Negative traits make me very happy.

I hope you include a plant race. Shocking we don’t have one in dnd yet but we’ve got plasmoids & robot gnomes.

I need a breakdown video on mutliclassing. I really want to know how that works in this system.

I’ve always like the idea of a WoW troll being an elf/troll. I also like the idea of a medium sized goblin race. So… when is the ancestry expansion coming?

Grammar Police: you have "a artistry guild" it should be "an artistry guild"

looks pretty good to me would stuff like Dark Elves be made with ancestry points or would they be a different ancestry entirely? it might be good to have "sub-ancestry" packages that may let you swap out the "core" traits you cant normally swap out, but wether they do that or not they come with their own default traits and expanded trait lists

I am not quite fan of mixed ancestry as it is now. Feels like there should be some limit or demerit to ballance more options (I think it should be same as custom ancestry). Right now vanilla races seems to get short end of stick here. That said I really love everything else.

@TheDungeonCoach

6 ай бұрын

The entire system is designed to be balanced with this in mind. I can fully see somebody making a dwarf with a mixed ancestry to pick up some thing that sounds good for the character. Kind of like example of the dwarf and a half thing I gave. I think it does nothing but increase the customization of how people express their ancestries, whether they are mixed or not. .💜

So how would you do this in d&d ? I love this idea.

I want to use the beastborn to make a humanoid owlbadger. I'd either want to be a monk that takes barbarian features with my talents or a barbarian that takes monk features with my talents.

Love the idea of default and expanded traits! But, it sounds like the correct choice 9/10 times will be mixed ancestry. With no additional downsides or restrictions having more options is just better. There probably shouldn't be a downside to mixed ancestry (as that sends the wrong message). So maybe some more restrictions. My first idea would be a primary and secondary ancestry system. You pick a primary ancestry as normal but then you can pick one secondary ancestry and you only get access to their expanded traits. This allows you to give each ancestry defining default traits. And tidies up what happens with the 0 point trait. The only way to access Natural Armor is via a tortle and the only way to access flight is via and Aarakocra. A flying castle is off the table. But honestly this doesn't even solve my issue, mixed ancestry still has more options. So, I guess the next logical step is to just make expanded ancestral traits available to everyone. This will let the player build whatever they want. Let any character have any combination of expanded ancestries, but it locks off certain potentially busted or defining traits. But you could still be a tortle with fiendish ancestry if you pick up Hellish Resistance. You can still be a half elf if you start with elf and pick up some jack of all trades human traits.

First I will take a Goblin and Devilborn to create an Imp! Second I know you wilö bring Beastborn later to the party but I want to make a whole compendium to create beastborns. So I will just make it anf share it when it is done. ❤

So, i think to get across that the small trait is required, you'll need to state that specifically. Maybe make it a 0 trait instead? "0: your size is small. In addition, you get 6 ancestry points rather than 5." It's not as neat, but it gets the feeling better, i think.

Dwarf + Orc = DORK!

I'd really like to see a "Giant" ancestry feature for giantborn, simply to make a Large player character. It's always been something that D&D has shied away from, but I love playing characters like the Ogryn from Darktide, just a great big lug. Dunno if it works with this system, but if anyone could figure it out i bet it's DC20

any 'rules' for natural weapons, horns, fangs, claws etc that might come from ancestries , I have a soft spot for minotaurs and other classical greek chimera.

@unfortunate_error

6 ай бұрын

I expect they’ll be coming with a later release that includes the Beastborn ancestry

@samuelbroad11

6 ай бұрын

chur. I hate in 5e the str based natural weapons and the confusion between melee, weapon and natural weapon attacks and all the riders off it.@@unfortunate_error

Wait... no Goblin?!? For you question on what to combine; Angelborne & Fiendborne

This is cool. I have difficulty with customizing characters beyond class. That is probably due to lack of experience. I also avoid multiclassing. The complex racial system in the video is fantastic for veteran players. They can really customize thier characters. Having a points helps a lot with balance. Personally I am mixed race. I am a mix of white, black and Native American. I think the option to mix two races is great. It gives positive representation of people like me. Saying things like half-elf and half-orc is not offensive at all. People say they are half of some race all the time. It is fine. WOTC is being too sensitive about this. I am glad this video supports the use of half races. In any issue of political correctness it is important to consult the people that belong to the minority demographic. There are other half race people that like playing with half-ekves and half-orcs. I do find it wierd that dragonborn can't have darkvision. Don't dragons live in dark caves and so could use this ability? If this ability is more restricted, it would make sense for dwarves and drow to have it. They are the humanoids that actually live underground in the dark.

I feel like any trait that has a positive effect should cost at least one point. Making it free like with the discerning sight elf trait is just going to mean every single player with any mind towards optimization is going to take it which reduces the innate variation intended by the system. It’s better to try and minimize any feel of a trait just being an obvious no brainer choice that everyone uses.

what is the negative of being small? is there a penalty somewhere for that?

Can we have a confirmation of how many ancestry points you gain at level 4 and 7 ? it just says points in the rules of the quickstarter.

Kinda reminds me of Aurora's Age of Desolation character builder

Where can I find a list of all the ancestries

A very good answer to what racial benefits need to be. They’re either underpowered and don’t matter or they’re too good and make everyone flock to that race. I’m using a very similar system for glyphs in my game. Glyphs are essentially enchants for your spells or skills to give them extra benefits over other ones, and they use a 0, 1, 2, 3 point system as well. Although, I didn’t think to add a negative point value. Good thinking outside the box there. I’ll be borrowing from your racial ideas and making some of my own because, like you, I also saw racial traits as being incredibly boring or underused. Having a point value system makes them more dynamic and the player gets more choices which is never a bad thing. Feel free to add a glyph system to yours as well if you want. It makes spells that much more interesting.

@rhysproudmourne1646

6 ай бұрын

I can give you a list of my glyphs if you’re interested. It’s not completely done, but most of them are at least graded, just to give you an idea of what they do and how it works. And the way I’m doing it as of right now, you start with 1 glyph point, and upon level up you gain 1 glyph point, and you can allocate them differently on long rests (I differentiate between long rests in towns and long rests in the wild. This would require a safe haven (town) long rest to change. The reason for differentiating is for speed as well. You don’t want players constantly switching these types of things for 5-10 minutes in a combat heavy situation or dungeon. This allows them to keep RP and combat fixes separated). So basically, they choose a spell to allocate glyph points to, and they can only assign 1 Prime Glyph (3), 1 Major Glyph (2), and 1 Lesser Glyph (1) to any spell, so a maximum of 6 points to a single spell. So spells that are used more often have more weight. But the player themselves are the ones that give that weight to the spell or skill themselves. I have martial skills too, so again, it’s different. Martial skills are similar to spell lists but for melee or martial classes. I find just attack attack and attack to be a fairly boring system for martial classes. I gave them a lot more stuff they can do instead. Anyways, let me know if you’re interested and I’ll link my short list for you to peruse if you’re interested. And you can steal anything you like. Also, I’m sure it’s linked in the video, but is there a specific place to buy your alpha and are you going to have physical versions for purchase?

I think having a heritage (where you are from) selection would be interesting even if you don't have talents, just the lore. For example your character is a noble from a country of magic users but you didn't have any interest/talent, so you left your family and became a fighter. Then the question becomes were you cast out, part of a political marriage to nation that put physical strength over magic, or did you run away? Then if you add in a mechanical element to it, would they be able to cast some spells, gain knowledge in magical stuff (bonus to arcana), or simply be able to fight magic users better (something similar to the Mage Slayer feat from dnd5e). On a separate note will there be an online character sheet like dndbeyond or will you put abilities on cards?

Does gnome get an additional point to spend since it's stuck with a negative off the bat? Cause if not then why play a gnome if you can just take the traits on a different race

I would love a halfcelestialborn halfdemonborn.

5e Skills & Powers (for those who remember AD&D)

There must be traits for elven/dark elven/highborne debauchery and decadence. Perhaps even some drukhari sadism. We need some dark side traits. And there should definitely be a beastfolk ancestry. It's perfect in this system. Wings, claws, hide, pack tactics, amphibian - it should solve the problem of having 9001 animal races and still leaving someone out because their specific fursona is unsupported. And also the undead ancestry with varying degrees of undeadness, from an almost alive dhampir to Frankenstein construct or an actual revenant that is averse to positive energy. Would be cool. I love these pools of features and the freedom they give.

Im wondering if it's going to be compatible with sci-fi, cyberpunk, or even the steampunk world campaigns

I don't know advantage vs. visual illusion is more than flavor. Situational but potentially pretty strong.

Count me in for a lore video!

Would definitely go elf orc

I think the 0 cost traits are okay, but they’re basically always auto picks and thus not really tied into the system. Maybe you can only have 1 0-cost trait?

@JimyRoze

6 ай бұрын

I think that's already the case.

I would combine dryad and halfling. Please make that happen.

Only complaint i have is that min-maxers will always make mixed race characters, because there are only upsides. Id suggest: full race 6 points, mixed 5, custom 4.

... Roll your ancestry... Decide how many generations back you want to go, determine races and couplings... Assign numbers to base race points... Roll a d6, take the corresponding trait. Alternate within the pairing till you have a completed offspring... Do this with all couples and continue down the generations until you reach your character... Get fancy with the starting generation for a more varried result... Too complicated? Maybe... Would it be interesting? I think so

I tried something similar, all my players ended up playing half and half. So I tried to find a way to make single races interesting aswell... in your system, you could make half and half 4 points with both 0 traits, or limit the access to expanded traits.

Personally i like mandatory negatives simply for the immersion

Tldr: Custom ancestries should have some downside compared to single ancestry. Is is what I've been trying to do in 5e. I had an idea for Dwarf/halfling and Dwarf/dragonborn characters but couldn't get them to work mechanically. This gives the flexibility that I love as a character creation junkie. As said by another commenter, creating/blending ancestries is pretty strong, so it might be a case where you must take a negative expanded trait or where the trait total cannot exceed 4, just to help the original ancestries stand out to veteran players or optimizers. If there isn't a downside, it starts to feel like variant human in 5e, which is taken for the feat for many optimized builds.

Interesting. I see you went with the 4 points for custom builds to disincentivize min-maxing traits and ignoring lore. Will @ D&D Shorts will still find any loopholes you left though :)

My thought is to make a proper half race it is hard to do with five points. Six points would be better for an even split. You could put things into that one point that all people if the ancestry who grew up in that location would be trained in and know like ancestry lore, local area lore, languages and any skills that an ancestry might be trained in as part of growing up. Then you could say your Halfling was born and raised in the Dwarven city of Stonefield and knows more about being a Dwarf than being a Halfling and could just swap the training point from Halfling with the one from Dwarf.