You handled this perfectly and although you had to be a bit forceful, you probably did not lose a customer for the future. At least the guy was big enough to admit he was wrong.

@MRPK1967

Жыл бұрын

Exactly, and when he does blow it up, which he will. He can come back for a forged build which is what he probably needs.

What sort of engine tuner can't tell the difference between smoke and steam? Well done for being firm with the customer, it's all too easy to act on customer complaints/demands.

As a retired engineer, engine machine work is one thing, performance improvement and tuning is a different matter.

Some tape on each of the 4 jaws helps me keep marks off the piston and get a good grip still. Try that and see how it works for you.

That smoking Audi bloke has sure got a lot of mates in the business hasn't he?

Good to hear that you resolved the issue with the customer. All's well that ends well.

Good to hear the warranty issue is resolved fair play to you for standing your ground but keeping professional and staying in contact with the cutsomer to solve the problem

Great result on the smoking engine, you were right all along.

nice of him to say sorry for jumping the gun

Interesting video Lee thanks for this buddy. Smokin on the Dyno; I know it's not in your nature to dig your heels in but the outcome was the correct one. You do need to stand your ground. You're a fair honest company, don't let people take advantage of your good nature. 👌

Little machining suggestion when chucking up something that can be easily marked up by the jaws is to put some brass or aluminum shim stock between the jaws and the work piece. That will protect the work piece from any possible damage.

@MrClaypogue

Жыл бұрын

Leather actually works better and will not leave the markings of the shims! also its far easier to add then shims as well!!!!

So glad this channel showed up in my recommendations. I very much enjoy the neat mix of technical prowess, and the day-to-day shop goings on.

Make yourself a set of soft jaws- just some aluminum or copper sheet bent up to fit around the jaw- this will protect the piston from any marks from the jaws.

Fascinating information about sizing bearings! Also extremely interesting info about the pistons.

Happy to hear things turned out well

I can't believe the worry you've gone through for nothing. I'd have a chat with the dyno guys and school them on what smoke looks like ;-)

@Cheepchipsable

Жыл бұрын

Might have used a hose to vent the exhaust and not actually smelled it, though oil is normally black and fuel/steam white.

Top job on the AUDI. The investment of your time and anguish is the cost of the great customer service you provide. Be good. Have a Deluxe weekend!

Well that’s a relief, keep the videos coming.

Really enjoying your content especially the content on the piston work

No haters here lads!! COOL AS ALWAYS!

Thanks for sharing, all the best to yous and your loved ones

The problem is the customer is not always right. A lot dont understand what they have or what they really want. For example some say they want way more power so after a lot of work there car now makes 800bhp but from the factory it only made 150 and now complain about the amount of fuel it uses.

@8:06 " I don't know what i'm looking at lol - you call it a piston I call it a round bit of metal lol!!!"

Vert nicely sorted that little problem 👍👍👍👍

How often do you calibrate your micrometers? Do you set them yourselves using slip gauges or send them away for calibration?

There ya go, you stood your ground and it work out. IF, and this is a big IF, IF it didn't work out, best you can do for him is maybe redo it by reducing your labor a little and what ever parts you put in, just charge him your cost on the parts. You can go that route IF it got sticky. Just a thought, I had to do that once for a customer, it helps.

If I was his Solicitor I'd say sue. Tell me to jog-on and I'll get stuck in. They are the magic words. You are giving them warranty terms with the invoice. That's too late. The terms sound OK until you say "by paying in full" I just say, well I am not paying in full. If you give me Hobson's Choice between terms you didn't tell me about and can't prove before you did the work and not giving my my car because I wont pay and diminish my own rights by paying. That's Economic Duress. That's why car parks have you'd accept the terms by conduct by parking, not by paying the parking fee. But they have to put notices up with the terms to warn you and give you the chance to jog-on. Just thinking what I could get you for makes me all warm and fuzzy. Suggest, quite strongly, that they sign the warranty terms BEFORE you take in the car. If they don't like it then they will tell themselves to jog on so saving you the effort. You know all this really but the drama is a bit of fun.

On the lathe, usually one of the Chuck key sockets should be marked and it’s good practice to always use that one

@eliotmansfield

Жыл бұрын

yeh my dad taught me to always use the same socket on a three jaw, he explained that it’s to do with the wearing evenly in the same place

Great news about the auda engine, fingers crossed and hoping Mondays news is ok.

Great result

Great outcome with that Audi. Seems like the owner has given up getting a retrospective discount from you. He did try very hard, though. But he never really had a case.

I'm a loudmouth amongst my friends. And I see you're AWESOME. Shall I send a shout out to my friends about your shop? I'd like to bump up your subscriber count. But idk if you wanna just stay low key on KZread.

Setting customers expectations is always difficult...well done

@Cheepchipsable

Жыл бұрын

I'd suggest the dyno guy set him off more than anything.

Loved it!

My mate Dino will not use a three jaw chuck.Watching him true a job in a four jaw is pure artistry,he is quick and his work is second to none.He likes the extra grip a four jaw gives and has worked with some dogged out lathes. Horses for courses.

Bore gauge measurement 2 tenths - settings with a micrometer - when was this last checked with any calibrated slip gauges?

Talking about the MGB-V8 I designed and drew up the plans for the Ken Costello MGB-V8 gear box. Needless to say I never saw a brass farthing from that con artist. That's despite him touting that gear box to many countries and making money on it. You live and learn.

Well done Lee, he was being rather silly when you consider the small amount of work you did at his request. Just thinking more broadly, a lot of this could have been avoided had he told everyone that NO CAT was fitted.

I didn't realise it was white smoke he was talking about. My VW Golf does that every now and then factory, it gets condensation in the exhaust and bit of steam now and then. I know that as if you go and look at the tail pipe the tail pie has water in it.

Sounds like you should post out a few Dulux colour charts so that people can correctly identify the colour of blue smoke...

Hi Lee, I know you are a busy man but would like to know the nitty gritty details of your lathe and mill. Thanks for all your interesting videos.

All that aggro because of a comment from someone who may not be able to tell oil smoke from simple condensation. Sheesh! Good to see a positive outcome 👍

A three jaw chuck self centres, but should always be tightened from however many (two or three) tightening points there are !

I also prefer to deal with imperial values instead of metric since I'm so used to using it. I'll do a little metric when it's necessary and I agree with the people who claim it's an easier system, but since imperial is really what I'm used to, and my good micrometer set is imperial and also that I have mostly imperial tooling, I tend to stick with that. I suppose having grown up with imperial it's what I tend to visualize the best. In my head I tend to quickly convert any kind of metric value to imperial to get a sort of visual feel for it.

@msa-tt4bg

Жыл бұрын

I'm the same. Even though i grew up with imperial threads, i do prefer working with metric threads, though.

@boblloyd6420

Жыл бұрын

Having worked with imperial mics, I am surprised you haven't got a mic with tenth graduations, seemed a bit hit and miss in your video considering the tolerances.

I find these videos very interesting and was wanting to know why do you dish the pistons instead of just cutting them down flat ? This is a serious question as I am unfamiliar to how pistons perform when dished vs flat. Thanks

@Cheepchipsable

Жыл бұрын

Probably depends on the design of the combustion chamber.

Happy to hear how this one concluded

Hi Lee, Happy new year. Quick tip on the 3 jaw chuck 13:29. 1.Get yourself another set of jaws. 2. Find a piece of pipe/tube with a bore slightly smaller than your piston dia ( try and find some with a decent wall thickness). 3. Split the tube into 3 equal parts lengthways ( as big a gap as you can, typically 6mm) 4. Weld each section to a jaw. 5 using a piece of bar, grip the bar at the back of the jaws and bore out the sections to the size of your piston deep enough to be able to grip in the round part of the piston. 6 Your piston should be running dead true and you can use this set up over and over again, just skimming the bore as required. Just one note of caution, this method requires that your chuck is in decent condition with not too much wear. When you bore the jaws out tighten the jaw with a zero mark on the o/d of the chuck ( if your chuck doesn't have a zero mark make one), and always use this jaw to clamp the pistons. I know this sounds like a bit of a faff, but it will save you a lot of time in the long run.

@stevencoyne4971

Жыл бұрын

Spot on mate proper way to do it Old School !👍👍👍👏👏👏👏

@hoobsgroove

Жыл бұрын

Can you achieve the same thing by just getting a pipe sliding it over the piston with a cut in the pipe no welding needed.

@1ginner1

Жыл бұрын

@@hoobsgroove Yep, If you are not too bothered about how true the piston is running. Just putting one slot in means when you tighten it down its no longer round. If the material you take out of the piston head is not even you can unbalance the piston, leading to a whole lot of other issues. The other thing to consider is positioning. If you bore the jaws out to a step you know that you have a repeatable register when you put the next piston in the jaws, saves set up time and ensures you are taking exactly the same amount of material out of each piston.

@hoobsgroove

Жыл бұрын

@@1ginner1 I would say it's not round... If the pipe is a tight fit You're not really deforming the pipe anymore! by the jaws of the Chuck! and they can be reset as well by a little tap. You're achieving an even pressure all the way around the piston

I would be annoyed at the engine tuner that sent it away I was under the impression it was blue smoke

@Cheepchipsable

Жыл бұрын

Just as many clueless types in the motor trade as out.

In the day, would the manufacturers have checked, or made to such tolerances, or just thrown it all together and hoped for the best?

Thanks for Yet Again a wonderfully presented vidclip .... Best to You, Yours and All The Team for 2023 ..... A 'Few Things' from this vidclip .... I am a 'Retired' Toolmaker, Engineer, CNC Machinist, etc.... Just a little background .... :-) :-) :-) ..... As you Do ..... OK, 1st 'thing'.... When last have your Micrometers been 'Calibrated' / Checked .... ????? They look Pretty Old... But they do wear ..... Take them to someone that has a Descent set of 'Slips' and do a '3 Position' check.... i.e. .... At Close to Minimum, Mid and Close to the Max Positions. IF you use your 2- 3" at mostly 2.250". you end up with 'Pitch Error' in That Area. Not to mention that the 'Faces' of the Anvil and Spindle do wear, that is why the Modern ones have Carbibe Faces..... .... OK,.... The Carbide Insert that you are using for turm the Crowns of the Pistons .... It is the Incorrect Grade and Configuration ( Those are General Purpose' for Steel ) ..... You should be using TNMG with a 0.8mm Radius and a Grade Specifically for Aluminium .... Example .... TNMG 160408-AK Polished aluminum inserts ..... Sorry for the 'Long Story' .... Love to hear your reply .....Best to All from ChCh, NZ

Removing 6mm from the crown of the Cosworth piston, on what you state is a high performance engine is asking for trouble. You have reduced the thickness to 6mm which is too small, also by introducing a bowl, you are increasing the piston surface area and therefore putting more heat into the piston. I will be surprised if the engine survives beyond break-in. When you removed 130” from an earlier set of pistons, that was excessive. I know it is difficult to obtain optimized pistons, a premium supplier be they Mahle, AE, KS, Alcan would not support such a modification.

@wwsjr2

Жыл бұрын

No boost at all.

So it was all just condensation?, how didn't the owner, the dyno guy and several others not realise that, smell alone would/should have told them it wasn't oil burning.

Very interested in how you maintain cutting tools. I.e. how quickly do they blunt? Can you sharpen them in-house, how often do you replace them, and how much does this contribute to the overall cost of running the shop. Perhaps a vid about lifecycle of a typical tool????

@davidbillyard6629

Жыл бұрын

I believe that if you cryogenically treat cutting tools you will extend their lifespan.

@stevemarks9360

Жыл бұрын

@@davidbillyard6629 how do you do that? The tools get hot whilst cutting, as does the material being cut! Cooland yes, cryogenic, don't be daft!

@davidbillyard6629

Жыл бұрын

@@stevemarks9360 I’m not daft. A quick search for cryogenic metal treatment applications will be of assistance for you.

There are inumerable exponents of the many skills within the mechanical engineering spectrum that I admire but none more than anyone that can set a 4 jaw chuck accurately without a nervous breakdown. (Spoiler alert: I never could) 😉😉

@IsaacBarum

Жыл бұрын

Had to do it at college. Started out stressful but when you get close it become a lot easier

@madeljacky

Жыл бұрын

Yes 4 jaw independent chucks can be a complete mystery to some, I use them all the time and never even think about it now when trueing a component up for machining, it does get easier the more you do it

Alls well that ends well

6 mm thickness left in the piston crown sounds a bit thin, thats 50% thinner aren't they 12 mm for a reason?

You should state this is an independent 4 jaw chuck with each jaw individually adjustable, as opposed to a standard 4 jaw chuck where, like the 3 jaw chuck on your floor, all four jaws move together in a concentric motion...

Could have put some soft pads under the jaws on the chuck... clamping directly onto the skirt with the jaws is rough as

Real engineers at work here shame about some of the customers, doing engine work compared to selling used cars seems more problematic

Yay 🎉

Hi just wanted to say you can build the best engines but you can't stop the idiots complaining I'am new to your channel used to do what your doing really miss it well done lads.

well all sorted on the smoke engine; you do look a little smug at the begining of the vlog ;)

The TFSI engine is known to use oil as it has super low friction rings on the pistons ( remember the Toyota 1.8 engine , did a few of those ) and blow by was an issue. Also I was told that Audi tuned them up then wound them back so oil consumption was deemed acceptable. So if it were tuned all sorts could happen. One Seat I knew of with this engine in , was tuned so highly that he got clutch slip in 4th and 5th , then gearbox problems, then finally shrapnel.

@Cheepchipsable

Жыл бұрын

Except oil consumption wasn't the problem...

2:26 - dear dear Mic. 👍🙂

Do torque wrenches ever need calibrating?

@551moley

Жыл бұрын

In aviation you have a torque tester that are calibrated and every time you use the tool you test it on the tester! So you definitely can have them calibrated along with all your measuring tools and gauges, probably depends on the size of your health and safety/QA department!!!

@phitsf5475

Жыл бұрын

Yes

Great result on the Audi but he still has the intermittent PCV fault IMO. The poor sod probably doesn’t have a garage to work on it so it gets punted around everyone. Sounds like the tuner just wants to do dyno runs for the money.

I think you must be getting all the work from other Shops That won't Touch them ,with the customer problems you are Experiencing 😂 Yes they are out there and you Learn how to Avoid Them 😊

Gosh those con rods look heavy with the weight pads on the beams. GMC built a series of V6 engines in the early 60s from 305CID up to 478CID. Installed in 1/2ton trucks up to semi trailer tractors. Not what you would call fuel efficient, 3 MPG US, but they last for a long time. The rods in them have pads like that on them as well. There was also a 635 CID 60° V8 and a 702 CID V12. Max RPM was only about 3500. The V12 had a one piece block, crank and camshaft. The bore and stroke were the same as the 351M V6. It used 4 of the 351 heads, two distributors and 2 barrel carburetors. Some of the V6 engines came with plaid painted rocker covers. I can see no use for those pads, which could be ground off and the beams polished. The crank would need to be balanced. David Vizard has a Powertec 10 youtube video on crankshaft balance. Instead of drilling into the outside of the counterweights, cut some off the sides. On the counterweight directly opposite the rod journal, go 45° each side. When you take weight off directly opposite the journal you reduce the weight there by "X" grams. You can cut more weight off the leading and trailing edges as one cancels the other to a point. This removes more total weight off the crankshaft to obtain the desired balance. This results in a quicker reving engine with no downside. Removing those big weights on the rods would accomplish the same. Just depending if your customer wants to cough up the expense in shop time. MGB V8, I would if it were mine.

surely a simple compession test ( done by the customer or his nearest garage ) couldve decided that weeks ago

At least mr A5 can go and enjoy his RS5 look a like

Result!

First I’ve heard about it being “ decat “ !

@peterjackhandy

Жыл бұрын

This was mentioned very early on in the saga.

Love your channel. How accurate are those gauges are at this point, they seem pretty worn and beat. Are they checked or calibrated every so often? Not a complaint, just curious really.

@gailtaylor1636

Жыл бұрын

Quick story_ Dad was in woodworking in HS. Tasked with masking a nightstand. Made a mistake when clamping material so every "45" cut was 43 or ?? He mentioned it to instructor which was an ****ole. Instructor was overjoyed "somebody screwed up" so he could show how much smarter he was. Said "clamp it up" so I can show the others. Dad did and when Instructor stuck square inside...thunk, thunk, thunk....dead on square. The mistakes complimented each other. Instructor was NOT happy. Snapped...glue it up! So even if the tool was "off" a little, long as you use same tool to measure everything, it'll all work out fine.

@focusedelectronics

Жыл бұрын

@@gailtaylor1636 while I understand your story I don’t think we’re comparing apples to apples here. We’re talking about something being “square” to something that’s being measured to ten thousandths of an inch and revving to maybe 6-7k rpm. While I’m no engine builder I was guessing they’d want their precision measuring devices to be in better condition which is why I was asking about them. That shop story is funny though 😃

@gailtaylor1636

Жыл бұрын

@@focusedelectronics What I'm saying is if the tool is off half a thousandths, then everything you measure has same error. So it ultimately doesn't matter. The dial gauge is measuring a hole size. 1/2 thousandths isn't gonna be enough to cause an issue. Plus he verifies the measurement with a micrometer. Also the fact that these old tools are likely more dependable & accurate than a new tool. Unless you are saying ALL their tools are wildly out-of-spec. THAT would show up with lots of blown engines.

@focusedelectronics

Жыл бұрын

@@gailtaylor1636 really more curious than anything if they’ve been calibrated or not. Not sure how it wouldn’t be better for them if they were calibrated or checked in some type of regular interval. We don’t deal with anything near that precise and we still make sure our gear is calibrated yearly as a good working practice. Was just surprised to see a starett in that condition. Usually you see them in an almost new condition. Again not complaining about it, his business run it like they want. Just wondering really. Personally for me with bearings and things that give clearances that tight Id want to know my measurements were calibrated, but that may just be me and my OCD 😂

@gailtaylor1636

Жыл бұрын

@@focusedelectronics The micrometer comes with standards to check/adjust them to spec. Can measure the dial gauge with a mic. I'm sitting 3 feet from my Starrett stuff. In my house. Better climate control!

Hah, detractors generally have never run a business. Also I believe that your purpose here is to show the day to day operations, I don't know, but watching flywheels being turned for 5 - 10 min and then you saying, thanks for watching seems kind of boring, hence the talking about the pitfalls of this business, that is what makes the channel interesting. Brief story, built an engine for a customer, I told him he needed a tach with a rev limiter, he said he would bring it back for the Tach, 8 moths later car comes in on the hook, rod through the side, and of course its my fault, however I keep records, on the receipt very clearly, no warranty if tach and rev limiter not installed within 30 days. Paperwork is soooooo important!!!!!! Blue Mule

Maybe in future get them to sign the paperwork, Then sign your disclaimer to say they have read and understood all of it's contents and it has been thoroughly explained to them and they accept all of it's contents before they receive the engine on payment.

Your not telling people to jog on after a bad job your enforcing your disclaimers that they were aware of on payment and if they didn’t read the invoice disclaimer that’s their fault…

Smoke ,steam not the same ,you would think th tuner would know this before telling him its rooted

ask someone that works on 40 million dollar jets,, They all burn oil, you run them see how much the oil goes down, Piston plane engines we heard they wrap the 36 grip floor sanding belts around the hone and scratch cylinders up that way. average burn is a qt an hr in them. instead of blowby going straight into the intake, Run clear tube with pot scrubber steel wool inside lightly, to wick the oil out. at the low point of the tube, put a T to a bit of hose, every month or two, that tube will be full of water and gunge, your intake will be clean though.

What time do you get up ? 😂

The Audi was just smoking cigars. 😎👍😁🙃

Who the hell was your customer having tune the vehicle if they couldn't identify condensation or excess fuel smoke? Tell him he better not go back there or he will likely need you to rebuild the engine completely.

So will you be invoicing the Audi smoking engine guy, for a consultation fee?

I remember all those old books with sizes / part numbers for all the engine and transmission parts etc. Proper bibles for engineers to work from. Highly unlikely they are still published, all the old geezers in brown or white warehouse coats who knew what plain white metal bearings were at the AE, Glacier or Vandervell works long gone. Probably some spotty oik just out of uni putting the data on line now.

It seems you 'found your bearings'....

Put on invoices , any modification made to a vehicle that has had engine work is not covered by any warranty as the makers of the engine ie the manufacturers do not warranty such work and the engine is built by them to a standard limit , any mods take the engine beyond its reccomend limits , if it's on the repair invoice and quotations then that is the contract that you have with any customers

Don't pistons ever making you totally pissed off? Yes? I can imagine the feeler, sliding gauges. 🙃

This is why you don't tell customers to bugger off unless all avenues are exhausted its called customer service

SORTED! what is number one cylinder again?.......

00:32 - that book is more greasy oily thumbnailed gone through than a whole host of mechanical YT vidz. 👍😺🙂

what sort of "tuner" cant tell the difference between smoke and steam

Auto mechanic here. I absolutely hate this kind of "specialist engine tuners" that have absolutely no idea or experience with real world engines. They just put another software on the ECU and tune it "by numbers". More times than not they have absolutely no idea what really happens inside the engine.

One thing caught my eye on those V8 rods....the massive variation in how much of the balancing pads had been ground off. Interested to know what their weights are. I was betting on a PCV fault on that Audi. No fault at all is even better...and even more stupid. Makes one wonder at the competence of the tuner for one thing.

Brexit Imperial or remoaner French metric up to you to choose. Rallye Monte Carlo soon! 😎👍

You should have looked at that tfsi engine. Maybe charge the customer an hour's labour (without accepting responsibility) but you should have checked cylinders for wear using maybe a borescope and cylinder leakage tester to confirm the work that you've already done is still okay and not the cause of the complaint. The customer possibly isn't that mechanically minded and needs reassurance from you. Not good customer service in my opinion.

Cant be a real tuner, a real tuner would know right away what's coming out of the tail pipe.

@bencartwright6734

Жыл бұрын

Yes I totally agree this would have been picked up by the air to fuel ratio analyser if it was burning any oil.

a book a book whats that

@stevemull2002

Жыл бұрын

one held together with gaffa tape !

@msa-tt4bg

Жыл бұрын

Something the pigeons will crap on, given half a chance.

Lee, not 'guys' 😂

@julianpritchard2558

Жыл бұрын

😂😂

Sound to me as though a lot of your customers want to perform miracles on a shoestring budget and when it goes tits up, it’s always someone else’s fault. Not for all the tea in China would I want punters like that.

@STANLIZ4

Жыл бұрын

Well said, a regular approach with bespoke work of any sort!

@peterjackhandy

Жыл бұрын

Unfortunately, a small independent m/c shop will always attract the tight-arsed, partickly for the first few years until it develops a sound reputation.

It's an Audi. It'll be sending metal out the tail pipe soon regardless.

MGC six cylinder - look at it's bump on it's bonnet. It's 1968 pregnant. 🙂🙃🙂🤪

@huwzebediahthomas9193

Жыл бұрын

Austin Healey 3000 rally engine under its hood. 😎👍