"If it has a cpu, it can run doom" - someone on the internet

@notsu

3 жыл бұрын

"If it has a video chip, it can run RTX" - said no one

@iantribunal7863

3 жыл бұрын

Megalovania Undertalr

@thatranger92

3 жыл бұрын

i am taking like 69 i am no 70 hahahahah

@thatranger92

3 жыл бұрын

@Volomette oh yea 69 meme is dumb so i removed the 69th like

@thatranger92

3 жыл бұрын

@Volomette your welcome

I'm so old 4k has been in fashion twice!

@ClayMann

6 жыл бұрын

that's a very amusing observation I hadn't even thought of. Same for me so I guess I understand now why I've been so underwhelmed with 4K the second time around.

@paulackley1251

6 жыл бұрын

Oh my that's awesome!

@Knight79334

6 жыл бұрын

Brilliant comment!

@AlyphRat

6 жыл бұрын

A time when 4K meant memory, not resolution...

@ClayMann

6 жыл бұрын

that seems like such an obvious thing to state Taluigi but I guess if you have only ever known 4K as resolution then its useful info. 4K first popped up its little head as far back as 2003. There may have been experimental stuff before that but that was the first time hardware came onto the market that offered that much resolution. And just to stretch out a long comment even longer. I was recently shocked to find out that in the late 70's and early 80's there computer monitors that were running near HD resolution. I was running at 320x200 or something like that with my first computer so when I first saw 640x resolution I was amazed but I was missing hardware from IBM and the like that had been doing resolution almost twice that with crazy 1200x1000 res screens running vector graphics CAD stuff but you had to be pretty connected and in the BIZ back then to even know that stuff existed. Ho hum!

My first hardware hack was adding a headphone jack to the RF Modulator on pin 3, so i could play games in the middle of the night with sound. If my parents knew...

@nathanhobson1142

3 жыл бұрын

I want to like this, but it'd take it to 65...

@Azazeliblis

3 жыл бұрын

N H one more and it’s 69 👀

@EricICX

3 жыл бұрын

nice

@mr.e1944

3 жыл бұрын

We had our Vic-20 attached to a Sears 9” black and white T.V. On the front of this T.V. Was a jack that I could plug my head phones into. But, my parents were hippies and didn’t care if I played all night!

@grampagamingguy6833

Жыл бұрын

Yup, got the jack and solder from Radio Shack. They actually had a kit for that, as well.

14:17 "In many ways I can thank this manual for my career as an adult" Same here! I was home sick from school and playing games when my VIC 20 died. I started to read the manual initially to see if there was something I could fix and became fascinated by all the things it could do. I ended up reading it cover to cover, and was hooked. I even wrote some programs on paper to try out later when I got it fixed.

I consider the adaptation of Doom to the Vic-20 to be one of the greatest accomplishments in computing.

@brianwilson49

5 жыл бұрын

you got that right - having been impressed with myself for writing 20 lines of code in basic, to see a level of doom on a vic 20 is jaw dropping!

@obadiahrobinson

5 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/iXqBr5V_j5DIqJM.html

@ims2129

4 жыл бұрын

Doom for pet wen eta

@allanm6246

4 жыл бұрын

Big question is... Has Elite been ported to it?

@twistedyogert

4 жыл бұрын

@@ims2129 Never, the PET can't do graphics.

I had one of these for a wedding gift right after the price dropped to $99. It was great. I learned to be such a tight programmer with only 3.5 K. I would do tricks like breaking up the program into segments which loaded in from tape as needed. I was a member of the Atlanta Vic 20 Users group called "The Victims".

@leavewe

5 жыл бұрын

Beautiful pun

@lmprdks1

5 жыл бұрын

I remember swapping cassette tapes with friends to share games. Exact same cassettes used for music mix tapes.

@chrishorst1318

Жыл бұрын

@@lmprdks1 there are bands that put small commodore programs on the tracks of their albums, so the record owner could transfer sounds to tape to run it in c64. Or just buy the album on cassette for quicker experience.

@customsongmaker

11 ай бұрын

The programming was the only thing that got tighter after the wedding

@kiershorey2706

3 ай бұрын

@@customsongmakerJeepers, that escalated quickly.

I crack up at the fact that there's a Pac-Man clone where they switched Pac-Man out with the Commodore logo

@deltaboogaloo633

2 жыл бұрын

Was it called Commodore-Man or Com-Man? If not, it should've

@QuantumScratcher

2 жыл бұрын

*Commodore has entered the chat*

@retneychozken

Жыл бұрын

​@@deltaboogaloo633 cum man

@AllGamingStarred

Жыл бұрын

Jack: "A pac man clone? What's the name? Jack vs the Atarians?" Programmer: *jots down a note*

@ryancraig2795

15 күн бұрын

Cosmic Cruncher

Vic20 was my first computer...I used to spend days typing in programs.

@philproffitt8363

3 жыл бұрын

Spend all day typing in a program from a magazine...then I swear they'd published it with a typo so i was screwed!! :-))

Awesome to see such an old item in such a pristine condition including all boxes and equipment.

@MomMom4Cubs

2 жыл бұрын

Ikr!

This was also my first computer. I remember my cousin brought it to me from England early in the summer of 1981. By the end of the summer, I had learned BASIC on my own. I remember that I was afraid it would break down if I used it for many hours because it got hot! I also remember my first game, Omega Race. Amazing graphics, even more amazing sound. A few months later, I bought the Commodore cassette recorder. One year later, I bought a Pascal language cartridge and learned Pascal on this computer (if I remember correctly and it was not my next computer, the Spectrum). Such nostalgia... Such nice times... Such nice summers in the countryside...

@Cooe.

2 жыл бұрын

Why move to the ZX Spectrum? Technically that machine is worse than the VIC-20 just as often as it's better...

Nostalgia. I bought one right off the shelf in 1982. I sorta wish I had one again.

@osheal

3 жыл бұрын

they are for sale again on amazon! new ones... lol

@louistournas120

3 жыл бұрын

The day you sold your VIC-20 or threw it in the trash or gave it away, you lost your soul.

@authorlilhyz7121

3 жыл бұрын

2009

@charlesbaldo

2 жыл бұрын

@@louistournas120 I honestly don't know what happened to mine. I have my PET, the 64 and my Atari 800

24:57 My first computer was a C-64 I bought in 1985 when I started college. I got a VICModem to connect to the University system's network to chat with friends online. I remember having to have a phone with a removable handset that left the dial on the base. First you'd load up your terminal software and then dial the number you wanted on your phone and waited for the modem tones. Then you would disconnect the headset and plug that cable into your VICModem and type in the Hayes command in your terminal software to connect. Then you were off to the races in glorious 300 baud (that's right, no k or M). I remember outreading the text as it appeared on the TV. And as long as everybody else was on 300 baud, you could play some competitive text based games on it. It just got nasty when the modems went to 1200 and then 2400 baud. If your opponent in Trek had a 2400 baud modem, your ship was toast before you could even type in your first command. It was such an exciting time computer wise back then. The 80s were the Golden Age for home computing. Everything was new and exciting and showed such promise. And beige. Can't forget beige. :)

@Cellmate412162

Жыл бұрын

Wait, you chatted with friends online back in 1985?

@Gronk574

Жыл бұрын

That’s a massive arse comment

Sees 30 minutes -> Grabs popcorn -> Enjoys the long episode

@IngeldGaming

6 жыл бұрын

If this was 3 hours I'd watch every second.

@TyDie85

6 жыл бұрын

Bombastisch I am with you! Except I struggle removing popcorn from my teeth....so I stick with a mild drink :p

@zvonkokarabatic2169

6 жыл бұрын

Probably the best tech channel with lgr ofc

@yolo_twice5827

6 жыл бұрын

Bombastisch lol video is 27 minutes long

@lordchaotic0013

6 жыл бұрын

LGR, Obsolete Geek, and 8-bit guy for the old school, Linus, Paul, and JayzTwoCents for the modern, all make the Chaotic one happy 😀

My dad wrote the Vic 20 users guide.

@The8BitGuy

6 жыл бұрын

Really? If that's true, then he deserves a big pat on the back!

@ashheilborn

6 жыл бұрын

The 8-Bit Guy he wasn't exactly modest about it. He also wrote "Your Commodore 128", and all kinds of other tech books in the 80's. I may have an extra copy of one of them I can send you, but I'm pretty sure it's an easy enough book to find, and you likely have them all already. Most of his books had multiple authors, but of course he always claimed to have done most of the work. I liked to imagine that the other authors claimed the same thing, but that he was the one who was right. I mean, I was just a kid. I didn't know any better at the time. And unfortunately he died in 2001. I don't know if any of the authors shows up in the credits of that particular book, but if you see the name John Heilborn, that's him. If you look that name up, you may find a back log of many of the articles he wrote in that time.

@robspiess

6 жыл бұрын

Honestly, I'd be interested in watching an interview between David and Heilborn Sr.

@ashheilborn

6 жыл бұрын

Rob Spiess if he was still alive, I'd try to make that happen. Heck, if he was still alive, he'd probably be a KZread star himself! Seems like the kind of thing he'd try to do. I've been meaning to write a biography, but I need to interview all the rest of the family, and try to find all the people he once worked with to get more understanding. Plus, I don't know how to write a book.

@robspiess

6 жыл бұрын

Oh, I'm so sorry. I hadn't noticed the past tense "wasn't". Honestly, there is no need to know how to write a book. I mean, just getting everything down in a written form is good enough to be able to be used as a primary/secondary reference for those writing long-form historical records.

My dad bought a Vic20 back in the early 80's which was a little splurge for him. He ended up making his own modem for it to get on the BBS's. Later on, he would make the jump to the Amiga 500.

@chrishorst1318

Жыл бұрын

Cool...how did he make modem? Im not tech saavy, which is why i ask.

@p51abc

Жыл бұрын

@@chrishorst1318 I don't know all the details, I was only about 6 or 7, but I remember him purchasing some circuit boards. He soddered some of them himself though along with the wiring. He then took some aircraft grade aluminum and cut it and bent it for the case (it was pretty small). He was an aircraft mechanic and quite good at electronics/avionics, turbine engine repairs, aircraft metal work, etc.

We had three games that I recall for the VIC-20: "Rat Race" from cartridge, you steer a rat around a maze evading pursuing rats; name forgotten where you run along things like in "Donkey Kong" and you can trap pursuers in a bubble which shrinks to nothingness if certain conditions are met; and another name forgotten where there was a rocket on one side of the screen, missiles approached it from the other side, and on each missile was an arithmetic problem which you had to solve before it hit the rocket. Having a Commodore tape drive may have eliminated tone/volume worries, but it made replacement _expensive_. We had ours in the early 80s, and I'm about 2-3 years older than you.

Fond memories of many Saturdays typing in basic programs from Compute! magazine.

@SpearM3064

6 жыл бұрын

Me too. And Compute!'s Gazette, and Ahoy!, and Run!, and... well, there were a LOT of magazines that had type-in Commodore programs at that time.

I had a C64 growing up. I always assumed the Vic-20 had 20kB of RAM.. hahaha

@christoohunders5316

4 жыл бұрын

Me too !!

@pigknickers2975

4 жыл бұрын

it did if you added the 16k expansion. 19967 bytes available

@pettttson

4 жыл бұрын

I think it had a 20kb rom

@davestechstuff8222

2 жыл бұрын

Same man when i got my 128d i heard about the vic 20 and thought it had 20 because of the name.

@BinaryBard64

2 жыл бұрын

Even still you were like, "Psh only 20k? Suckers!"

I absolutely love these videos. While I'm in my 30's, I didn't get a chance to use computers until 2000's and I've missed that early era (which, as a Software Engineer, I'm pretty sad about). Your wonderful videos are taking me into the times I've missed and I'm grateful for that. Keep up the awesome job.

As someone with extreme anxiety and a huge lover of 4/8/16 bit gaming consoles, computers, and arcade PCBs, I truly appreciate your content. It's calming, entertaining, and the not-so-forced humor is 100% appealing.

@diggerpete9334

4 жыл бұрын

Snowflake

@linkthehero1234

3 жыл бұрын

@@diggerpete9334 stfu also 4 bit consoles?

@BinaryBard64

2 жыл бұрын

@@linkthehero1234 haha! Tell some dude to stfu then call out OP about 4-bit 😆 Make up ur mind!

The VIC-20 was my 2nd computer after the Timex/Sinclair 1000. The only peripheral I had was the Datacette. As for software, most of it came from magazines, like Compute!.

@chrismason7066

Жыл бұрын

Same here which soon followed by a c64. Wrote many games on basic with it. Slow but I still remember the base address for the vicii chip. 53248

@FoxRivers778

4 ай бұрын

@@chrismason7066 I remember the Sinclair and looking at ads for it in a computer magazine when I was dreaming of owning my first machine which ended up being a TRS-80 Coco which came out like one year after the VIC-20.

I agree about the manuals, they were brilliant back in those days. I had a Vic-20 also as my first machine, and then moved to an Acorn Electron, which was just a cut down version of the UK's BBC B Micro 32k. It also had an excellent manual that teached you all you needed to know about Basic.

@XalphYT

6 жыл бұрын

Paul Taylor I remember the first time that I bought a new printer where the manual didn't list all the escape codes. I felt cheated.

@ClayMann

6 жыл бұрын

Man that BBC was a beast wasn't it? I always wanted one but mostly because Vince Clark used them to sequence his midi music and I thought that was the way into the music industry heh. I didn't like the Electron. It was a great idea and very practical for a school/home crossover but the commodore 64 came out and that was where the computer action was for me after the vic20. Good times!

@carguyuk3613

6 жыл бұрын

Acorn Election came out a short time after I had a BBC micro. I always thought that I wanted an Election. However, perhaps the BBC was a little better and it was the same as our school computers. My Dad bought a colour portable to use with the BBC. Best thing about it was I could watch colour TV in my room! it was about 1983 when we got it and I remember watching the 1984 Olympics late at night in my room which is perhaps why I nearly failed my O level exams!

@ClayMann

6 жыл бұрын

Ah the joys of your first TV in your own room. Once I got that I just couldn't fathom how I even coped having my computer in the living room where most of the time someone was watching TV so I couldn't use it. Now that Electron really was a cut down version of the big fat BBC. Prepare for a shock. It was 6 times slower, its electronics were reduced by a whopping 90% so 100 chips in the BBC, 10 in the Electron. But amazingly it ran all the same software but it did this using really clever tricks. I had to look all this up. It looks like it was more impressive than the spectrum which it was really competing with according to wikipedipoo so there is that but my recollection of it was me having a C64 when I first saw it but who knows. Maybe I'm blending together several years in my mind there and the two never really competed at all heh

@777jones

6 жыл бұрын

Because they were written by Americans. Who were professional writers. And because the manuals existed instead of not existing.

I played games on a vic 20 using big cartridges that often had a cool shiny, silver colored label on them. I was only 2 to 5 yrs old operating it on my own; before doing the same with a c64 in late 80s (minus carts). Funny tidbit the commodore controllers can plug into and function on sega genesis. I did this many times with my neighbor at his home. Also some bands put commodore programs into their music tracks that could be loaded and run on c64 tape deck. (Load "$" ,8 ,1. List)

19:04 I died laughing when I realized that was the Commodore symbol!

@JohnGames-gz7ue

4 жыл бұрын

Omg It Is

@Wflash00

4 жыл бұрын

Now that only begs the question does the Apple II have a Pac-Man clone with the Apple logo?

@WaffleTM420

3 жыл бұрын

You took me to a ad

Great video. I agree with the assessment of the vic20 manual, and I remember tapping in that flapping bird and piano code. Even as a kid I hated that chunky text and begged my parents to upgrade to a C64. I remember finding epic code in Commodore magazine that gave you *much* more control over the graphics and sound... it was called "PGM", and it was like a new OS. I hope that's part of your C64 episode!

Yea! My first Book was "Lerne Basic mit dem VC 20"

The Vic was the first computer I owned, and I still used it until about 2002. I had access to other computers, but with the Vic I had complete control of every byte. I had a 16k expander cartridge, which helped. I wrote an assembly editor on my Vic, at first in BASIC with lots of READ/DATA statements and PEEK/POKE. and eventually had enough of a bootstrap to finish writing the editor in assembly, rewriting the BASIC parts in assembler as I went. Then I used that to write a CAD program that let me design double sided through-hole PCBs using the multicolor mode. I could only display one square inch of the PCB at a time, but could design boards up to 6.4 by 3.6 inches and print them out on my 1525 dot matrix printer - and getting the aspect ratio right was a challenge all its own, as the characters were six dots wide but seven dots tall. That computer taught me more about programming than any other computer I've ever used. You really had to be creative to make the most of 3.5 Kb or 19.5 Kb of RAM

It's amazing how far we've come from the amount of memory and hard disk space between 1980 to what we have today. What they did to make programs in 1980 on so little memory blows my mind. Well done video!

10:34 - The Atari 400/800 was out during that time (79-80), and it had capabilities much superior to the Pet, or the C64, for that matter. The specialized video hardware (e.g., ANTIC) could display a different graphics mode on each horizontal line, for example. Remappable character sets were the key to densely animated displays, with the limited sprites (aka player/missile graphics) reserved to portray the player figure, and whatever he shot or otherwise exuded. Changing a pointer 30 or 60 times per second to flip through different sets of characters on the fly takes very little processing compared to redrawing a bitmapped display directly, so stunningly active displays can be achieved with 1 to 1.79 MHz @8 bits. Full bitmapped graphics displays similar to those you showed were also possible, as was a 256-value greyscale with oddly elongated pixels. When properly used, B&W images that looked like they belonged on an old CRT TV could be produced. However, Commodore killed Atari on the marketing and the economics. That's why the C64 is still remembered, while the Ataris, not so much. The 3-channed semi-flexible sound synthesizer in the C64 wallops the 4-channel square-wave generator in the Ataris too. Thanks so much for these videos. I never messed with the Pet, but I actually had to learn all about the C64 for a software job. My personal micros at the time were an Atari 400 modded to 32KB RAM, later followed by a 48KB 800.

@mborows2

Жыл бұрын

The VC20 was a first 8bitguy computer and he is biased. It's really funny how he praise VC20 which omparable to ZX81 but not Atari.

I've been following you for a few years, I've seen "almost" all your videos and I think these two videos (Part 1 & 2) are your BEST job. All the detail of investigation, recycling, edition, explanation, graphs, games, etc. are superb. Congratulations and thanks for the technological nostalgia.

Like so may others this was also my first computer. I remember my History teacher in High School also had a VIC 20, but he also had a couple of game cartridges and a RAM expansion pack, he used to lend them to us at the weekends and then we would spend hours playing games and writing programs from the instruction manual. Dad would get upset because we basically took over the only TV in the house to do this and he couldn't watch his Saturday afternoon sport, so after the first weekend we had to get up early on Saturday morning and would spend hours mucking about with this computer. I wish I had managed to hang on to it, just to be able to show my kids how basic computers were back then compared to the supercharged machines they use today. Thanks so much for this video, it bought back a lot of fond memories.

Great video series! My dad bought both the Vic20 and the Commodore 64 while on a business trip in the states. When he brought them back, we were to keep one system and sell the other. Knowing so little about computers at the time....we kept the Vic20. Syntax Error became the bane of our existence and for a long time we referenced a bad decision as "A Vic20".

I was never a Commodore owner, let alone fan until the Amiga came along. But I have to say this is the most complete video review and history of the Vic 20 that’s ever been made. Well done!

One of the restrictions of the VIC chip is that it cannot access cartridge memory. It is limited to the onboard memory, which (in the unexpanded VIC) was between 0 and 1023, which is 1k of that "reserved" RAM that David was talking about. The other 4K of RAM was between 4096 and 8191, but 512 bytes of that was set aside for the screen (by default, 7168-8191. That was the other 0.5k of "reserved" RAM.) To use a custom character set, you would simply move the top of BASIC RAM down to reserve memory for the character set. Most BASIC programs written for the unexpanded VIC used only the first 64 characters (512 bytes), which was enough for all the letters from A-Z and numbers from 0-9, and still have up to 28 custom characters, leaving 3K for your program. A *full* character set was 2048 bytes, which would've left you with barely 1K for your program. Now, to be fair, you can do quite a lot with just 1K *if* you're using machine language. Just ask whoever programmed ZX81 chess, which was a fully functional chess program in less than 1K of RAM. You could also squeeze short machine language routines into the first 1K of RAM if you were careful. For example, as long as you're not going to be reading from or writing to the Datasette, you can use the VIC's cassette buffer from 828-1019 for a short (192 byte) routine. If you have just a 3K expander, all you are doing is filling in the "hole" between 1024-4095. The memory map doesn't change; the VIC just moves the start of BASIC RAM to 1024, so you have another 3K for your BASIC program. The real pain in the ass was if you had an 8K expander or more. Then, to give you the maximum amount of BASIC RAM, it would move screen memory down to 4096 and set the start of BASIC to 4608, but the video chip can still only access RAM between 4096-8191. What this meant was, if you were going to use a custom character set, you had to write a loader program that would move the bottom of BASIC *up*, to make room for the character set, and then do some fancy tricks to automatically load the main part of the program into memory. The video chip's limitation is also the reason why, even if you have the maximum amount of RAM expansion, you will never have more than 27.5K for your BASIC program. I think they should've shipped the VIC-20 with 8K of RAM, even if it made it more expensive. It would've made memory management a little easier.

@JohnSmith-eo5sp

6 жыл бұрын

Did the ZX81/TS1000 use Assembly language? It used Interpreter ROM instead of BASIC compiler?

@MomMom4Cubs

2 жыл бұрын

Thanx for the concise elaboration on this point!

That manual was also the defining book of my life. When I had trouble, my dad would say "Read the book". We still joke about it today. But, it is what made me become self taught through my entire life. One time, it got me though....I mistook a zero for an o and it stumped me for hours.

Just inherited an early VIC-20 from my late grandfather. Can’t wait to start experimenting with it!

A great comprehensive episode, great work David! :)

@OopsieGoopsie

6 жыл бұрын

you're first

@videogameobsession

6 жыл бұрын

I thought his name was Mr. Eight B. Guy. This changes everything!

What a great episode! You have a wonderful way of narration in your videos, it’s a true pleasure. Thank You!

My first computer...paid $87 for it at K-Mart in the spring of 1983 when I graduated grammar school. And 13:00...OMFG those pics bring back great memories of growing up in that first generation of video games/home computers. Walking into Kiddie City or Toys-R-Us and seeing all that gear as a 12 year old kid...

tiny typo: 3:15 it's IEEE-488, not IEE-488 (missing an E), IEEE stands for "Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers" and is used for a variety of connector standards (and over 1000 standards in general).

People always mention that the loading time from cassette was slow but today we experience things like that with some modern games, like Rust, on the "average" computer it will have loading times around 10 minutes, GTA Online also have a considerable loading time. Thank you for this long but awesome episode.

25:20 in case you guys are wondering why in Germany the name was changed to VC20 because VIC pronounced in German sounds like '' Fick '' which means fuck in German.

@MartellThaCool

6 жыл бұрын

Peter Gratineau lol

@dann3410

6 жыл бұрын

No one cares, Einstein.

@subzerolives

6 жыл бұрын

You must be fun at parties..

I have a very similar history. Mine is with Atari 800 XL which I got when I was 8. I had a couple of games but also came with two books on BASIC. And after a couple of months I started entering the code and trying to run it. Then I tried to change some stuff in the code and then went straight to creating my own programs and games. And I do that today - almost 30 years later.

@FoxRivers778

4 ай бұрын

Atari 800 not XL was my second computer which I got in the late 80's. I think I had looked at the 400 at the time it came out, but did not like the flat membrane keyboard.

Thank you, I was looking specifically for an in-depth look like this to this particular computer and this is easily the one best on KZread so good job on providing one.

I was just watching the SID 2 SID 'VID' on 8-Bit Keys when this popped up in my sub box... awesome timing!

BEST episode ever. Love the long format! Love the VIC-20. You're right...it has always been very underrated.

@38911bytefree

6 жыл бұрын

The C64 came very close to the VIC 20 with 10 times more user RAM, better Video and sound capabilities. Developer attention shifted to the C64 and denied the VIC20 the oportinity to show its potential like they did on the C64, with games you cant believe that fit in only 64K (but actually even less) with tons of graphics and 5 or more tunes included. VIC II and SID made the C64 a more attractive enviroment for game developers compared to VIC20, I mean, more resources. VIC 20 is like Coleco VIsion. you see the Coleco games and look ... poor. They are not up to the level of the console. But years later, homebrew games pushed the real limits of the console showing a complete different machine with graphics and sound you didnt heard from the same console in the 80s. Probably time to market issues ... Who knows.

@atariandre5014

6 жыл бұрын

9.57 ...."in 1980, there weren't really a lot of computers on the market that could do better". Ever heard about the Atari 400 and 800 ?

@cbmeeks

6 жыл бұрын

I disagree that ColecoVision games looked poor. Sure, many of them did. But many games for the C64, NES, VIC-20, etc. also looked poor. The ColecoVision had some amazing games. Including one of the best Donkey Kong ports for any 8-bit platform. Especially for a system that only had 2K RAM (IIRC) and 8K-32K or so of ROM.

What a great video. I thought I remembered everything about the VIC-20, but at 13:58 you talked about learning programming from the VIC manual. I did exactly the same thing, except I was probably 21 at the time. Thanks for the nice memories!

See this is the kind of content I just love KZread for. What a great channel 8BitGuy and thank you so much for making this stuff. I really appreciate everything you do!

Commodore made great manuals. I had a Commodore Amiga and it came with a quickstart manual, a regular manual, a BIG separate manual for AmigaBASIC and a technical/schematic manual.

@JarodMoonchild1975

6 жыл бұрын

Catzilla Yeah, I had a Vic-20 back in the day. (As a kid.) With a (Commodore) casette deck and 3 game carts. And a BUNCH of original casette games. And probably some copied ones too. But the manuals were great. Nowadays, you don't even get an OS disc for your laptop, even if it has a physical media drive. Smh.

Nice job on this video. Brings back many memories for me. Especially when you mentioned having no way to load/save programs... Had that problem for some time. Very nice.

Brings back memories. I still have mine in the original box, minus the RF adapter. You taught me things about this computer I didn't know. Thank you.

Bravo!!! What an amazing journey you just provided back to my early teens!! A magical time !

Best 30 min of my day! Great work!

A small correction: The TRS-80 Model I *did* have sound, via a clever trick of using the cassette recorder output to produce musical tones, rather than its intended use of saving data to tape. So you could connect it to an amplifier and you'd get sound in many TRS-80 games -- even polyphonic music, in games like Frogger. This is similar to the Commodore PET's trick of using a pin on the user port as a sound output.

@mobluse

5 жыл бұрын

TRS-80 had DACs connected to the two cassette ports so it could play rather high quality sound in stereo.

@DanafoxyVixen

5 жыл бұрын

A hack doesn't really count. When the TRS-80 was released it was not advertised as having sound, same with the original PET, so no, it didn't have sound..

@mobluse

5 жыл бұрын

Sinclair ZX81 had sound in the same way as TRS-80, but you could also connect a sound card.

@andygozzo72

2 жыл бұрын

@@mobluse not quite, with the zx81 in 'slow' 'compute and display mode', the ula display circuit was constantly generating tv sync signals, it used the same ula pin for tape output and to drive the tv modulator, you could turn this off going into fast mode, and then produce your sounds out of the tape 'mic' output, but you lose the display, better was the external sound device on the expansion slot, commonly using the AY-3-8912 chip

In that VIC-20 ad with William Shatner, the snooty guy on the right was imitating George Plimpton (who, for unfathomable reasons, was the pitchman for the Intellivision at the time).

Thanks for sharing, I bought one in 1984 when I could not afford a C-64. It was limited in that software for it was impossible, so I had to make my own. I learned basic and have been basically writing the same code I did in 1984. So little did I know that $79 I spent would give me a lifetime of income. VIC-20 forever!

Love your work, but by 1980, the Atari 400/800 were on the market with MUCH better graphics, sounds, hardware sprites, smooth scrolling, etc. (albeit at much higher prices than the VIC-20).

@MattMcIrvin

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, the price was definitely the thing that moved the VIC-20 there. This was right around the time I bought my very first computer, mostly with my own money, and it was an Atari 400. I think I basically spent every cent of saved-up allowance I had and got some subsidy from my parents. I'd done this big price/feature comparison covering all the major models that were on the market at the time, and I remember the VIC-20 and the Sinclair ZX-80 were well within my price limit whereas the Atari was really stretching it--but I'd determined that the Atari was just in a different league for overall capabilities, but wasn't wildly unaffordable like the Apple II. (It was before the C64 came out.)

@adrianfox9431

4 жыл бұрын

@@MattMcIrvin The Atari 400 was definitely better, but apart from the substantially higher price, the membrane keyboard was a deal-breaker for many. The A-800 had a proper keyboard, but of course was even more expensive - over 3x the price of a Vic if memory serves.

I can relate to the memories of bringing the first computer home. Mine was a brazilian CoCo clone by Prologica, I was 8 at the time, and I dare to say that the high quality and friendliness of its BASIC manual went on to shape my future career as a programmer.

My very first computer in1981. I was 20 years old and had a job so I bought the VIC20, the dataset first, then a disk drive about 6 months later. What fun times back then. All you needed was a compute magazine and start programming your personal computer. My buddy would read off the pages of numbers (code) and I would type it all in. Sometimes it worked sometimes not. depending on the accuracy of my typing or the magazines printing. As I sit now and type this with my MacBook Pro, your video takes me back to the old days and I see just how far we have come. As I watch my son playing on the Xbox, I see how far the graphics have come! Crazy!

This was my first computer too and started me on a path to my current career. Thanks for posting. It brought back so many memories.

By the way, your channel is the best! I love old/vintage tech. Thank you David Murray!

I gain a brain cell when I watch your videos

@BlackEpyon

6 жыл бұрын

And immediately loose one when "Trump" is mentioned. I don't even like to use the word these days... Hate the name too. Ya know? Speak of the Devil, and he shall Tweet about you?

@PCReloaded

6 жыл бұрын

BlackEpyon ...

@BlackEpyon

6 жыл бұрын

If you've got a better one, I'd love to hear it.

@marakarthegreat

5 жыл бұрын

BlackEpyon Trump is the reincarnation of hitler

@raskr8137

5 жыл бұрын

I gain 5

Great narration. This brings back a lot of memories, I used to work for a Commodore Computer Dealer in Cincinnati (Ward's Computers) and I also used to write articles on the Commodore 64 for Compute!, Transactor and Commodore magazines.

Thank you so much for this! My first home computer was a Sinclair ZX-81 but I really got going with my 2nd computer, the Commodore VIC-20. I owe my whole career in IT to this little chap. I then got a BBC Model B then business computers etc....but I will always have a soft spot this little baby. Later I did get into the Amiga 500 for a while as well :-)

I remember playing `Strip Poker` on the Vic20 when I was about 8. The graphics were not as exciting as anticipated.

@markpalmercomedy

6 жыл бұрын

MeesterDash lol

@pigknickers2975

4 жыл бұрын

hate to say it but I think that was the C64. I mate had that, it was RAUNCHY!

The kids today don’t know how good they have it. Back when I was young, my iPad was a goddamn Etch-a-Sketch.

@SuperHammaren

4 жыл бұрын

You were lucky to have that I had to make lines in the sand with a stick :))

@madot999

3 жыл бұрын

@@SuperHammaren you too had it easy I had to grow the first tree on earth just to get a stick to play with

@SuperHammaren

3 жыл бұрын

@@madot999 Yet no one of the young people today belies how hard it was when told about it..;)

@LULU1422__

3 жыл бұрын

Lol my iPad was dirt

@sonicdagreat426

3 жыл бұрын

Monochrome tablet lol. It was still fun

This was great!! Thanks for sharing. The Vic-20 was my first computer too. I was 12, and taught myself to program from the same book. You made me realize that I also have to credit my 25 years in IT to the start I got from that book. I never thought about what a life changer it was. Thanks again!!!

As a Dwarf Fortress player, I approve. With that amount of RAM, though, I'll just be sure to never have cats in my fort.

From all the kids from 80's: moms and dads, those sounds were exactly as horrible as you said they were. We were wrong and should've turned the volume down: sorry.

@BlackEpyon

6 жыл бұрын

lol.

@platonicsnow542

4 жыл бұрын

Kids parents from the 80s Comppppuuutttooorrrr THE POWER OF THE LORD COMPELS YOU

I still remember my VIC 20 like it was yesterday. I had a few cartridges but the user manual was my favorite thing. I went through every program until I almost knew them from memory. Wrote my first ever original program on it. I really wish I still had it just for the nostalgia. Great video, cheers!

My first computer as well and I loved it. When I updated to my next computer, a C128D, I rewired my old VIC20 as a printer buffer for the C128.

Yup, I too can thank the VIC 20 and it's wonderful manual, which my family bought when I was 13 (and CBM 8032s at school), for my very lucrative and enjoyable 30+ year programming career. Actually I have been developing database apps in MS-Access for 30 years, so technically I have been programming in some variety of Microsoft Basic for 37 years.

@FoxRivers778

4 ай бұрын

I ended up making a career with database apps for MS-Access for about 18 years. It led to my only permanent job which was in 2000.

I started to tear up when I saw that screen.... I had so much fun with mine

Unforgettable memories. The VIC was my first computer. I still have it, in working order. The nostalgia was so strong that last year I resorted to (finally) write an arcade game for it. Challenging task... but worth it =)

This series is soooo entertaining! Thanks for all the hard work putting it together!!

When is Part - 3 ? I cannot wait mate :D Keep up the amazing work 10/10 ***** !!!

I used to go to bed reading that manual. I can still remember the smell of it.

Reading the book about Commodore by Brian Bagnall (Commodore: A Company on the Edge), it mentions that the reason for the shift register not being used was someone in engineering had removed some PCB traces for it. So it may be that the chip approach wasn't going to work and someone removed the PCB traces, or they were removed by accident leading to no way of using the chip.

One of the best done videos I have seen on just about anything. Brings back a ton of memories. I just upgraded a RAMAX Jr. (19K - 3+8+8) to 27K *like the non-Jr. version), and while I had my gear out, repaired a 2 prong VIC that I got super cheap because it had a black screen issue. I wish you had gotten a bit into how the VIC juggles the colour RAM and BASIC when you expand it though with 3K or 8K+ etc.

I received a vic20 at about 8 yrs old. My older brother already had a c64, this was around 1983. I had a b&w tv, and for years after thought that was the actual 'colour' palette of the older, less sophisticated vic20 😂

Always feel so good to watch the 8-bit guy!

@skliws9015

6 жыл бұрын

Martell Tha Cool I would have to agree!

This is a really nice series about Commodore you put together. Excellent job!

Fantasic Video, really well done. Brought memories when I got my first computer in the 80's. It was a Vic 20 and I got it for a birthday present (£149 retail, around $300 I guess) back in 1984. I vividly remember following a programming book I got from the Library and typing all the basic commands in. I hadn't a clue what I was doing but expected this fantastic game at the end of it. Sadly after I entered run, the screen changed colour and one space invader moved about an inch across the screen...ahhh Happy Days.

"You can learn computing at home". Today you just download an app.

@morganrussman

5 жыл бұрын

What's the fun of that though?

@gwyllymsuter4551

4 жыл бұрын

Millennial🙄. Apps teach you to be a subscriber and nothing about the incredibly precise timing necessary to build a good system. Do you think your app bucket, aka phone came into existence by magic? Idiot

@tylerwhite9923

4 жыл бұрын

@@gwyllymsuter4551 Buddy, you need to chill...there's plenty of shit I'd change about my phone if I knew how to do so, or had the inclination to mess around with shit that I know nothing about other than what some dude on a chat board told me. Watching this stuff teaches me about computers, admittedly old ones but now at least I know what things do and it gives me something to work off of if I want to gain more current knowledge.

@skyolo4923

3 жыл бұрын

@Nuke Dukem I think someone hurt yours.

11:23 Yep, seems like a standard quartet to me.

My dad had a VIC-20 in the early 80s, technically it was my grandfathers which he used for business purposes but none the less my father recalls being very intrigued by it and excited once he learned he could play frogger on it. He claims he wasn't jealous of his friend (who was the talk of the small Canadian middle school he went to) because he had an Atari 2600 but I suppose you took what you could get back then.

BIG THUMBS UP and THX for beaming me back to the 80s. I LOVED this machine and spent uncountable hours on it!

I’ve watched at least a dozen times, and I didn’t even own a vic20

@allanm6246

4 жыл бұрын

Same here!

@vittosphonecollection4134

4 жыл бұрын

Same here!

@Impresso3dBlogspot

4 жыл бұрын

Same here!

@Impresso3dBlogspot

4 жыл бұрын

@Jean Carlos Motta Ribeiro Like yep. São Paulo/SP

@twistedyogert

4 жыл бұрын

Now I want one.

That is a shockingly nice VIC 20.

Wow that box takes me right back and the manual floored me. At 12 years old I used to get up an hour early so I could program it in Basic before school. It led to a life loving computers and technology and a (so far) 30 year career in IT. I really, really, wish I'd kept my VIC-20, C-64, Amiga 500 and Amiga 1200. They were such good times. I remember those exact pages from the manual. The cassette recorder you showed was version 2. The original version 1 was square rather than having round edges. I remember drawing characters on graph paper just like you did there too. POKE 36869 !!!! Lazer Zone!!!!!!! Jeff Minter!!! Falcon Patrol! That cassette recorder was version 2. The original was more square in shape (I had both). LOAD "xxxxxxx",8 :) I had both an early model and a later model. So many memories here. Thank you.

I had the early VIC-20 model in 1981. Loved that machine! Then later got the Commodore 64. Thanks for producing the video!

My first computer, back in '84... Gee I'm so old ;-)

@silmarforbes4904

6 жыл бұрын

i prefer the term, experienced! haha

@teacfan1080

6 жыл бұрын

My first 'puter was a TRS-80 Model 3! I convinced my dad to buy me this computer in 1984 as I found it in the ads in the paper. It was 48K, tape drive for $600. I did a lot with that computer. I never did get a disk drive for it though.

@MV60

6 жыл бұрын

In '84, so why not a c64 instead?

@marcopaolini3478

6 жыл бұрын

The C64 was for me, at time, (too bad for me) too expensive :-)

@MV60

6 жыл бұрын

Still drooled over it though I'd bet. :) We all did. I was still a kid then though with an atari 2600. Still have that atari. I do look forward to the next commodore history episode. Going to be my favorite I think, I never really liked the amiga. Had one a few years ago, threw tons of money into it, ran out of space and it sold for almost free. :(

Cartridges huh. It seems like any kind of storage media that was slow required substantial amounts of RAM to back it up. You see this in the progression of Tape -> Floppy -> CD-ROM. The counter-point is that since for much of history even into the early 2000's, ROM was more comparable in speed (if not faster) to RAM than it was to say a floppy drive. What does this mean? A system using cartridges needs less RAM. The Vic 20 demonstrates this all by itself with it's Cartridge vs Tape/floppy games... But it was also demonstrated quite well when you consider the Amiga vs the 16 bit cartridge based consoles. The SNES has the most total RAM of the two most popular 16 bit consoles, at a total of 256 kilobytes. The Amiga meanwhile, started at 512 kilobytes and only went up from there, with many models having 1 or even 2 or more megabytes... Yet games had a similar level of complexity. Even the N64 demonstrates this - not only because the Playstation has 2 megabytes of RAM dedicated solely as a CD-ROM buffer, while the N64 doesn't bother, but also because many games when you look into their development, turn out to only be possible for a system with just 4 megabytes of RAM because of cartridges... Rare said Goldeneye would have required 8 megabytes without cartridges. Mario 64 contains seamless mid-level loading boundaries! - something demonstrated quite clearly by an emulator set to mimic CD-ROM like access speeds where most levels have completely invisible boundaries which, if crossed cause the game to freeze for a quite substantial amount of time while new level data is loaded. Cartridges let you get away with having less RAM... Though, RAM is now so cheap, and flash memory (or mask ROM or any other similar technology) performance hasn't kept up with RAM performance... So that benefit no longer applies in such a clear-cut way. Sure, ROM is still generally faster than optical media, or a mechanical hard drive, but it can be slower than special purpose FLASH memory or a solid state drive. (though in a way those are comparable to a modern extension of ROM...) It's funny to consider the subtleties of some of these choices though. ROM is expensive, but it does help you out in a surprising number of ways.

@dubsy1026

6 жыл бұрын

KuraIthys I think the problem here is that you equate ROM as similar to floppies and stuff. The reason it needs less is because the memory is still in the cartridge. Floppies had to load all of their data in RAM at this point, but cartridges didn't, because the memory is physically in the cartridge. But now since proper internal storage is common, this isn't the case so much anymore. Just a one time load onto a SSD and that's it, it will load in and out of RAM as needed, rather than just all having to be in RAM at once

@vytah

6 жыл бұрын

Flash "cartridges" are just disks with instantaneous seek speed, they don't have much in common with ROM cartridges when it comes to software design.

@KuraIthys

6 жыл бұрын

Well, duh. ROM is literally 'Read Only Memory'. I equate the two because many systems from that era used them in very similar ways. There is no RAM in a ROM cartridge though. Or if there is it's minimal in amount. Why are you saying I'm making a false equivalence, then basically repeating my exact point in different terms? Because ROM can be read directly, and is about as fast as RAM (in older systems) you don't need to copy your data to RAM before you can use it. Therefore, you need less RAM. Is that not exactly what I said? So why then are you disputing it? As for Flash cartridges - that really depends what you mean. I'm in the very early stages of designing one, and there are chips that are functionally nearly interchangeable with mask ROM chips. You can pull a Mask ROM out of a circuit board, drop in an EEPROM and assuming the pinout is the same, they behave identically (for most purposes). You can make a flash cartridge that behaves very similarly to a mask ROM cartridge, or you can make one that behaves more like a disk drive, or you can make something in the middle. The actual flash memory chips making up an SSD don't behave anything like a mechanical hard drive, but for the sake of convenience an SSD includes a controller that tricks a computer into thinking it is one. There is no one specific way you can design something to run from 'flash' memory. It very much depends on how you design your circuit and what kind of memory chips you are using. (Some major categories include EPROM, EEVROM, EEPROM and PSROM. Flash memory specifically describes an underlying storage technology, but even among things labelled as 'flash memory' there are about a dozen different kinds -different ways you can interface with a chip. - some behave very much like Static RAM with some extensions, others behave nothing like traditional RAM or Mask ROM or EEPROM chips. Some are serial, some are parallel. Some use bus multiplexing, some do not. - 'Flash' is a very, VERY generic term.) Unfortunately, as capacities increased, pinouts and addressing logic changed substantially. The SNES uses 32 or 36 pin mask ROM where the address and data bus are fully independent. The N64 meanwhile used a 16 bit bus with multiplexing of the address and data bus. Floppy drives and Cartridges are comparable in that both are storage media. Yes, on a functional level, they are different technology. And a ROM chip is much closer to a RAM chip in construction than either are to magnetic or optical storage media. But that's still rather missing the point. by virtue of being LIKE RAM, they can be used AS RAM, so long as you don't need to dynamically alter any data. A 24 megabit SNES game loading from a cartridge is providing 3 megabytes of data that as far as the system is concerned is directly accessible from the same bus as system memory. (the n64 arrangement is far less direct, and in fact you cannot execute code from ROM - the advantage for the n64 is purely one of loading times. Something like 5 megabytes a second at a minimum vs 300 kilobytes per second for a typical CD-ROM drive from the era - logically you cannot treat n64 ROM as memory any more than you can treat a CD-ROM as memory. Both have to copy data to RAM first; One is just much, much faster at it than the other.) This is 3 megabytes of data that you never need to load into the system's RAM unless it needs to be modified in some way (eg. Variables, data decompression, or whatever else you can think of that requires modifying the initial values somehow.) A hypothetical CD drive for the SNES (not actually that hypothetical given a known working prototype exists) meanwhile is forced to copy data from the CD-ROM to an additional amount of RAM. This is needed mostly because of the access speed, but also because CD-ROM is terrible for random access. Even so, at the end of the day my point still basically holds. Cartridges, when used as a storage medium, mean that the system using them tends to require less RAM than a system which is using something else as a storage medium. (and no, it's not because the cartridges literally contain RAM - they can, and frequently do, for various secondary purposes, but that's not why you need less main system RAM...)

@dubsy1026

6 жыл бұрын

KuraIthys you describe floppies, etc, as 'slow' memory. They aren't at all memory and by calling them that, you make it sound like you think they are similar to ROM carts. Your comment comes across like you are saying that it is access speed, not the fundamental type of storage, that determines this. You never say something like 'you need the ram to load the game into with floppies, CDs etc'. You say stuff like '...required substantial amounts of RAM to back it up'. Back it up is not "hold the game whilst being played". My issue is, or was at least, was that in the comment you spoke rather vaguely and used words in ways that lead me to believe you didn't fully understand the differences. The examples you gave were interesting and your underlying point was right, the devil was in the details.

Wow, the Vic 20 was my first computer as well. Got mine in 1981 too. I seem to remember it had the best keyboard for typing away at the time. Loved some of the old games back then like Omega race, never thought I would see one again. Nice video my friend, thanks for bringing back some good memories.

This man knows his stuff. I have used these machines in the 80s but I did not know the trick about changing the floppy drive device number by scratching the contact on the motherboard. He is a genius.

25:20 Ohhh, that's the reason why it's called VC20 here in Germany. But VIC20 in german language sounds not that similar to the swear word they meant. But great to know.

@IntyMichael

4 жыл бұрын

@Travis Ruston The German government has nothing to do with it. It was a decision by Commodore. Actually the German government had and has better to do than names of home computers. VIC spoken out in German pronunciation would be like f*ck in English. And they used the VC to change it to Volkscomputer (like Volkswagen) = Computer for the people. Very clever.

@user-xg8yy7yl1d

4 жыл бұрын

IntyMichael If you know the history of the name “Volkswagen” and the intention for the beetle “Volkscomputer” makes me wonder what computers in the Reich would be like if they survived.

@pettttson

4 жыл бұрын

The word is probably "ficken"

@thescreemregular5168

4 жыл бұрын

XD

@IntyMichael

3 жыл бұрын

@referral madness but still the main reason to renamed it was that VIC sounds in German like a swear word. Commodore thought always first of the shortcut and then the meaning. PET 2001 was namens because pet sounds friendly and 2001 futuristic. After that they came up with Personal Electronic Transactor. When they had renamed the VIC to VC the Volks Computer was for marketing. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_VIC-20

my 2st comp was a vic20 with datasette. lots of great memories, and fun games. great video!!.

@Connie_TinuityError

6 жыл бұрын

soverysleepy 2st?

@markfrombriz

6 жыл бұрын

Nothing else at the time had a real keyboard, they were all the rubber chicklet or awful membrane

@manicminer4573

5 жыл бұрын

@@Connie_TinuityError Yes, 2st, after the 1th.

I picked up one of these in the late 90's and was quite impressed with it. At the time I had one of those cable that allowed a commodore disk drive to be hooked up to a windows PC, so that's how I acquired all my software for it. Awesome little computer.

Hey brother, thanks for this video, my first computer was a sinclair, but the vc20 (german for vic20) was what got me hammered on computers. Cheers!!

Vic 20 was my first computer also, made my first game on it. It was very simple involving moving the cursor with a joystick into things lol; today I am a software engineer and have owned the C64, C128, and Amiga 500's before Commodore management blew it and screwed up the company.

@MomMom4Cubs

2 жыл бұрын

Without Jack Tramiel's micromanagement, middle management went buck wild. It seems to me that they made logically questionable choices and wasted money on the asinine and superfluous. I could be mistaken on this. As an admitted product of the Reagan era, I'm quite late to the party.