If we apply "Sol Ring's Law" to each of these cards they should all be unbanned because casting them makes you the target at the table and therefore playing them will lower your win rate.

@NitpickingNerds

Жыл бұрын

😂😂😂😂😂

@mitrimind1027

Жыл бұрын

Haha, if only they could have any hope of fighting back once these banned cards resolve.

@globenstine1335

Жыл бұрын

thats why i dont play free for all commander anymore. two headed, emperor or 1v1 only for me.

@quayakins5496

Жыл бұрын

Or if we apply the “which of these cards is weaker than sol ring” law that would be the case too

@chaosbuster1275

Жыл бұрын

@chazni The problem with that argument is that most of these cards will either win you the game, or give you such a skyrocketing lead, that your opponents can’t stop you from winning.

The issue with recurring nightmare is that returning it to your hand is part of the cost activating it. If the bounce was part of the effect, not the cost, it wouldn’t be banned. The fact that immediately after it resolves, you can activate it and get it to your hand before opponents can respond to its existing is what pushes it over the top

@dirtyfrench2926

Жыл бұрын

I've always wanted to run it in Muldrotha lol.

@wchenful

Жыл бұрын

Yeah but that just makes it a strong card but far from broken in a format that allows consult/oracle or doomsday/intuition one card wincons.

Just as an interesting tidbit because non-banlist cEDH does exist and there are a few interesting things. Marsil the Pretender is top tier and arguably the best commander because he just needs to exile like grisselbrand or Time Vault to go nuts. Also Time Vault, probably EVERY decks main wincon. It is easily the best card in that Format and I would say the best card in the game, except for flash. This is why I don't agree with Flash placement. It has always been broken and is the #1 best card that looks like a bad card. (canadian Highlander has it above cards like Mana Crypt points wise) Protean Hulk is just one of the busted things you can do because winning with 2 mana at instant speed that once resolved becomes completely uninteractable is not a great place do be, but even outside that it has applications with Academy Rector and Omniscience and some other shennanigans. Flash is always as good as its targets and turns out its targets win the game on the spot. (usually on top of another person trying to win the game after counterspells have been played). Tinker shouldn't be unbanned because basically it should always win the game if played in turn 2/3. even if it gets "just a chromatic orrary" it still gets you as ahead as Fastbond without using a ton of lands. But otherwise it is a decent list

@Leovold

Жыл бұрын

Borderline decent list.

@wchenful

Жыл бұрын

It's a good list for casual play but not cEDH. Over 50% of Non-banlist cEDH games end on t0-1 which makes Flash Hulk stronger than Time Vault as a wincon since it is faster and able to win after another player places their win con on the stack and the table has burned through their interaction.

If we are talking about truly miserable 2 card combos, put the Shaharzad onto the Panoptic Mirror. I'm sure your LGS won't ban you as hard as the cards on this list.

@royalguardiangaming9843

Жыл бұрын

Make a shaharazad storm deck with thousand year storm and copy spells and get banned from all stores in the world

@erikohman2294

Жыл бұрын

Apparently cards in the main game where considered exiled for the purpose of the subgame, so you could target your opponents stuff in the main game with "pull from eternity". Iooked in to it for a moment, but that wasnt for commander - it needed a 60 card deck with 4 cards of each. That way, if you played "pull from eternity" once or twice you could shuffle it up by playing another Shahrazad. It was fun! ... Once.

Flash is also really good with Academy Rector, get like a turn 2 Omniscience or Overwhelming Splendor. Should be at least a C

@Nolsie

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I honestly don't know what they are thinking for that.. It is one of the only cards banned exclusively for power level and not play pattern/rarity and it doesn't make A tier?

@connorpalmer6454

Жыл бұрын

Pretty wild take but I'm not incredible at magic so it's hard to say for me. I feel like flash is nutty but I've never put it in my decks or played with it tbh

@Dayyyjoey26

Жыл бұрын

@@Nolsie Yeah literally any expensive creature with a good ltb or etb trigger is horrible to play against with flash. Getting craterhooffed off 2 open mana in the middle of combat after blockers have been declared is wildly powerful

@skykur

Жыл бұрын

It’s banned in legacy. Should say something about the card

@quayakins5496

Жыл бұрын

“Flash is poop tier and also here are multiple banned creatures that are amazing flash targets right here on the same list”

"Paradox Engine doesn't seem that powerful" ...every spell comes with the added text "Untap all of your mana rocks and dorks". For any deck that is looking to storm off or ritual, this is busted. Paradox isn't busted by itself, but it shoots other cards from "good" to "holy crap" good: Chulane, Jhoira Weatherlight Captain, Niv-Mizzet Parun, Beast Whisperer, etc.

@jonlamoreaux1889

Жыл бұрын

Kinnan bonder prodigy plus thrasios and a couple mana dorks

@TheGingertarian

Жыл бұрын

@@jonlamoreaux1889 Kinnan and Thrasios don't cast the spells but they are also nutty with Paradox Engine. Paradox is easily one of the most busted cards on this list, it just isn't busted by itself.

@JD-gk7eh

Жыл бұрын

It's also a near immediate win with Urza. All you have to do is not brick on your flips with him.

@Michael.032

Жыл бұрын

I mean it's very good, but compared to say Gifts Ungiven? I think they tiered it roughly correctly

@_z3i

Жыл бұрын

Paradox Engine is a 1 card combo with so many commanders that it is nuts. Gifts Ungiven is definitely strong but it’s not that strong

Approach is waaaaay fairer than Coalition victory. You have to play it early and they can respond or work together to beat you first. coalition victory wins you the game the first time it resolves. This is crucial.

@6laccdemarco

Жыл бұрын

Super easy ways to get approach back in your hand. Especially in blue card draw

Undervaluing Tinker a crazy amount here.

@Leovold

Жыл бұрын

Haven't even watched the video yet, and I'm not surprised.

Time Vault should be S tier because you can have a Commander that can untap/combo with it. Derevi and Tawnos can go infinite off of it, just to name 2.

"I think it (Upheaval) is a pretty bad magic card" is something that can only be said if you've never played with or against it. The card is back breaking and makes Simic ramp one of the best archetypes in cube. I've had multiple opponents concede to me with it on the stack.

@shanghaikid9093

Жыл бұрын

Yeah if you think Upheaval is bad it tells me you’ve never played against it. One of the best board wipes of all time.

@cronotosaur2881

Жыл бұрын

@@alexanderficken9354 It is best there. But I've also used it while behind as an "oh no" and it's pretty good there as well

@AnnaJaneMTG

Жыл бұрын

These kids never gonna understand when that Psychatog hits after you're fucked lmao

@starmanda88

Жыл бұрын

I didn’t know much about it until I watched Seth from MTGgoldfish play it in modern. It was hilarious and informative 😂

@astuteanansi4935

Жыл бұрын

@@shanghaikid9093 It's kinda like Worldfire but way cheaper and easier to abuse.

Flash was so notorious it was starting to show up at lgs commander nights. I had to fight that card so often.

@brandonslade2134

Жыл бұрын

Now thassa's oracle is running around

Time Vault is the best card in Commander, hands down. Banlist-less decks play without it, because it makes even cEDH too fast and wins too consistent

Saharazad can be a wincon. By forcing players to concede. Also, fun fact, they unbanned this in Vintage for multiple years thinking nobody would play it. Only to get banned again not only because there would be a lot of trolling, but they also had concerns for decks to side board this after winning a round and stalling the rest of the game to time.

@nzephier

Жыл бұрын

This reminds me of when grandmaster hikaru nakamura, a chess player, had an opponent make an illegal move and the judges had to intervene to reset the timer....everyone said the guy did it to buy time haha

To answer your question on Gifts Ungiven over Intuition; yes, the number of combos is infinitely larger. Whether they all win on the spot just depends on how much mana you have available when you untap (assuming you did it on the end step before your turn). I'm not saying that it makes sense for Intuition to be banned and not Gifts Ungiven, but the one extra card makes a huge difference and makes the piles SO easy. Just because of the nature of how magic cards interact with each other, 1 additional card equals nearly infinite more possibilities. A quick example of something really easy with Gifts that you can't do with Intuition is [[Any two cards that produce a game-winning combo]] + [[Noxious Revival]] + [[Regrowth]] on the end step. If you don't get your combo pieces, cast Noxious Revival still on the end step putting one combo piece on top. Draw it for turn and Regrowth the other piece on your turn. And that is just one of literally thousands of possibilities. Sure Intuition can do something similar, but only if the combo you tutor allows for any of the three cards to be in any of the zones.

@robertolukas3minutos

Жыл бұрын

Sorry, that's not the reason. The real reason is that you can tutor less than 4 cards with Gifts Ungiven.

@fosterdawson7339

Жыл бұрын

@@robertolukas3minutos both, both is good

@robertolukas3minutos

Жыл бұрын

@@fosterdawson7339 not quite

@fosterdawson7339

Жыл бұрын

@@robertolukas3minutos I mean both are valid reasons why it’s banned. Entomb twice? Really good. 1 card grab 4 cards to win? Also really good. Both on the same card? Understandably banned

@emerson685

Жыл бұрын

@@robertolukas3minutos Yes, we allknow the fail to find thing, that is a reason too. Silly you don't think my explanation applies though. Double Entomb is undoubtedly strong, but there isn't a two-card combo that immediately and independly wins the game by both being in your graveyard.

Prime Time and Paradox Engine being under B tier is interesting lol

@Leovold

Жыл бұрын

I don't even think they were playing when Prime Time was legal, that's what I've gathered from this video. At least they give off the vibe that they've been playing magic for maybe 5 years or so.

I still have my Prophet of Kruphix and Yawgmoth's Bargain in my binder, just waiting for their day, hoping and longing.

@ygaudreault

Жыл бұрын

One of my friends has a binder of foil prophets 😅

oooooops... I have had Tinker (36:58) in my Breya list for a long time, and it's even won me a game or two. I never realized it was banned. I have a lot of apologies to send.

@atemnirnasha

Жыл бұрын

I've made the same mistake though it never won me a game

@robertbauerle5592

Жыл бұрын

I mean if none of your opponents knew to call you out on it, that's not really your fault specifically. It's everyone's. I wouldn't say you need to apologize for that, but I would definitely take it out of your deck lol. Proxy up a transmute artifact instead. It's no tinker, but it's the best legal artifact tutor in blue.

@jasonbuchanan7974

Жыл бұрын

Same here, but mine was prophet of Kruphix in Momir Vig.

Used your link on my TCGplayer purchase!!! Love the vids keep making 🔥

Flash hulk was a 2 mana win the game at instant speed. You would flash in hulk and once it resolves, the protean hulk trigger would go on the stack with no chance to exile it in response, once it does and you tutor the three creatures into play, unless you have a stifle effect, you lose as the combo can be repeated with thassas Oracle trigger on the stack to mill your entire library. The issue with flash was that it cost 5 cards in your deck once thassas Oracle got printed. It should never be unbanned unless protean hulk gets banned in it's stead.

@DrewskiTheLegend

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I think the reasoning that flash isn’t a good card because it is primarily used to summon Hulk is kinda ridiculous. Hulk is the best thing you can do with it, sure, but all you need to make it good is an expensive creature with an OP ETB or death trigger. It even gets ok value off of things like Solemn Simulacrum. Not game breaking, certainly, but it’s not like it’s going to be useless if you don’t line it up with Hulk. Most of the decks that run it are usually high power anyway, so they will tutor for it 9 times out of 10 anyway. Is anybody going to argue that thassa’s oracle is a bad card without demonic consultation?

@hermodnitter3902

Жыл бұрын

Flash severely restricts design space.

Wanted to explain why Hullbreacher was banned. Hullbreacher was basically in a 2 card win combo where you or an opponent, normally you, where you would have the entire table discard their entire hand, then draw that many cards, then, while that card was on the stack, you cast Hullbreacher, and unless someone counter spell it right then and there, they lost, since they would lose way too much advantage, and you would literally win by how much you just ramped up, and depending on the Deck, you could get this combo by turn 2, with the latest most get it out if built around it is turn 4.

@trumpetperson11

Жыл бұрын

Yea, but tbf notion thief is and has been legal for many years, doing a similar thing for one more mana. Obviously, that one mana matters quite a bit when you are trying to combo off (especially in blue where the ramp isn't amazing), the extra color makes it more restrictive, and the one health also makes it easier to remove. But, having played notion thief in a deck for a while now, it is still very powerful. Much like hullbreacher, you can just play it for value into a cantrip or draw spell if you are not trying to combo out. Its dependent on the deck, and the stage of the game, if one card is better than on treasure, but otherwise they are quite comparable. You wouldn't be able to segway the notion thief into a super early combo, since it doesn't ramp you. But at the same time, it is much better at drawing you into the combo if you didn't already have it. And for both of them, its quite unlikely that they will remove the thief for a few turns, since they can't really dig for an answer.

@danimals2000

Жыл бұрын

@@trumpetperson11 tbh the biggest advantage that hullbreacher has over notion thief (besides the massive difference that 3 cmc to 4 cmc makes) is that it's mono blue, meaning it'll show up in every single deck that has blue in it, and some of the nastiest combo decks in the format have blue in them but not black. Also, the banlist is pretty arbitrary lol. There are loads of cards that should be banned by criteria that the RC has used for some bans, but they dodge the hitlist for whatever reason that Sheldon and co. don't want to ban them.

@velphidrow8317

Жыл бұрын

@@danimals2000 that's because the banlist isn't supposed to be monolithic. It's supposed to be an idea "These cards are banned as people don't enjoy their effects. You should probably avoid putting similar effects in your deck" is the intention but instead people usually just end up looking for the 2nd best version

Dude if you open with Karakas, they will never have their commanders out lol

As someone who has played against Sundering Titan it went into every deck and if you didn't have one you needed to have some way to play against it. It could go in any deck and even though the ways to reuse it were harder back then it was still back breaking as at its best (without ways to reuse it) it was a 10 for 1 and at its worst a 3 for 8(a rarity because of the multiplayer nature of the format) and that is via land destruction so it would usually keep one opponent out of the game. This would lead to games where only three people would play in a four player game.

Thanks for the video! Getting back into mtg n edh. I would enjoy watching yall put together a tier list of cards that say "you win the game" (or tie/or a player loses the game)

Dear Nitpickers, nice content as always. I have used (without knowing) the Limited Resources card. I agree that it is miserable for the game's speed if played early, it took 2 hours for one match. Luckily my friends did not kill me! Cheers.

For Gifts Ungiven, i think what makes it better than Intuition is the fact that you can just find 2 cards with gifts, then "fail to find" the other 2.

@weaintdointhis

Жыл бұрын

Wait what

@timfoley9272

Жыл бұрын

If you only search for two cards they'll both end up in your graveyard

@trehenry413

Жыл бұрын

@@timfoley9272 thank you for the correction!

@StevenTLawson

Жыл бұрын

​@@timfoley9272 yes and there are some really strong cards that you WANT to be in the graveyard so this is a 4 mana card to put two from your deck exactly where you want them to be.

So, let me get this straight... Getting one extra mana every turn (Moxen) is god tier busted, but (paradox engine) getting ALL of your mana reusable over and over and over again along with the activation of all your tappable permanents is "not that great." What are they smoking? I've literally never seen anyone resolve a paradox engine without winning the game.

@chaosky9

Жыл бұрын

actually yes thats true. getting your 5 card combo together and going off is less broken then moxens just giving you free mana. The moxens are incredibly broken because they just give you free mana. Sure your 5 card combo wins the game. Still weaker then a mox

@HyperactiveSloth79

Жыл бұрын

@@chaosky9 Who is talking about a 5 card combo? I'm talking about ANY time Paradox Engine is on the field you can basically play your whole hand and activate any abilities multiple times. It turns 5 mana into 20-30 with almost any random cards in your hand. No combo needed. Every card in existence combos with it.

@chaosky9

Жыл бұрын

@@HyperactiveSloth79 firstly even if it was 3 mana moxens would be better, i play alot of vintage and play a 3 mana instant win card i can tell you moxens are still better. Firstly thats simply not true it combos with artifact rock or dorks. As such you need multiple cards to combo with it. It also doesn't combo with any card. Also casting doesn'y nessicary win you the game. Moxens are broken though. Free mana is broken. They exist and they're broken. paradox engine exists and u can combo with i but theres a reason it see no play in an non commander format.

@HyperactiveSloth79

Жыл бұрын

@@chaosky9 I'm not talking about auto-win combos combos! I'm talking about what the card itself does all by itself! Your obsession with combing and what works in modern or vintage or whatever has nothing to do with EDH!

I had the Yidris precon deck that I put Paradox Engine in. It was so fun to cascade into basically my entire deck by turning all of my creatures into mana sources with Manalith Rite and cascading Glint-horn Sorcerer over and over until I can grapeshot the entire table for 200. So fun.

When i was first learning the game I heard a guy say that time vault goes infinite with a wet corn chip. He was 100% correct

@velphidrow8317

Жыл бұрын

Time Vault, Kikijiki, and intruder alarm combo off and win whenever you sneeze at them

S Tier should be: Black Lotus; Ancestral; Tinker; Time Walk; Moxen in that order. Tolarian is not S tier; it goes in significantly less decks. Prime Titan and Paradox Engine are ridiculously strong, Paradox engine because everything is now a combo piece; Titan because it finds any 2 lands. Vault is the strongest build around card, but you do need some other cards to make it viable.

My playgroup ruled 0 Moxfield because decks made there have unfair advantage! 😂

@NitpickingNerds

Жыл бұрын

Moxfield soon to be banned in commander 😂

Bio rhythm is an insane card for green white tokens. I’ve seen it played many times in no banned list games. It’s an instant win in every deck that plays it

Cradle isn't banned because green can already ramp like crazy, its just a win more care for green decks and while it is very powerful, it is often not as needed as people think, especially late game.

@JD-gk7eh

Жыл бұрын

Acceleration in the early game is far far more powerful. Cradle is great once you've managed to get some creatures out but that takes turns and mana. Academy taps for 3, 4, 5 in a couple turns and that's just bonkers. I think in most banned list discussions, there's a failure to realize that cards are banned for being high variance explosions more than any other reason. Sure, Fastbond sucks if you draw it late, but if you drop it T1, you end up so far ahead you can't lose. Same with Channel. You cast that early and you have what amounts to "infinite" mana on turn 3 or so.

@danimals2000

Жыл бұрын

The EDH banlist is one of the weirder banlists in magic. It's the only one I know of that bans cards based on availability, in addition to power and quality of play reasons. Cradle falls under the "availability" reasons iirc, since its so damn expensive and hard to get (and on the reserved list, because of course it is) EDIT: lol I forgot that cradle is legal ignore me

@brandoncameron2411

Жыл бұрын

@@danimals2000 Wizards also has shown that they clearly care about the secondary market and a ban would tank the value of Cradle which would piss off a lot of collectors.

AFAIK in no banlist cEDH, Time Vault dominates how you win, Tinker -> Time vault is pretty good, as it Tinker -> Bolas's Citadel. I think a lot of the cards you'd expect to get played like library aren't really, but cEDH is a different beast to casual EDH so that makes sense. 4 and 5 colour piles dominate NB-cEDH (moxen are good), so people will often intentionelly restrict themselves to de-homogenise the format.

I had a shaharazard resolve in a game of edh 10 years ago it was very awkward and nobody was excited about it.

Loved the video! Where would you guys put Griselbrand?

@velphidrow8317

Жыл бұрын

S tier easily

The problem with Flash Hulk in CEDH is that it was a turn ZERO win and no one had mana to interact. Gemstone caverns in opening hand starts on field (tapped for blue), Elvish / Simian Spirit Guide discarded from hand to get another mana, cast Flash, get hulk, game over.

Primeval titan is more broken in edh than they think it is.

@ffdpwkuk

Жыл бұрын

Free prime time. Legal in 1v1 commander.

@isiahsmith673

2 ай бұрын

pair it with deadeye navi in a simic deck

I used ur affiliate link yesterday and bought Beledros Witherbloom (boarderless) one of coolest looking cards AND Zurzoth the little devil commander lol

I think power level scaling depends a lot on the context where cards are played. In cEDH, the tiers would probably look more like this: S Tier: Lotus, Ancestral, Moxen, Academy, Time Walk, Time Vault, Channel, Fastbond, Flash (and maybe Tinker although I'm not sure what it would combo with) A Tier: Balance, Karakas, Hullbreacher, Griselbrand B Tier: Paradox Engine, Prophet of Kruphix (cards that line up with ad-nauseum in terms of efficiency and will win you the game >90% of the time when resolved) and probably Library of Alexandria which is super powerful but a bit too slow. C: Gifts Ungiven, Upheaval (you will probably win if these resolve but they cost >5 mana and are weaker than existing win cons) D: Prime Time, Sylvan Primordial, Recurring Nightmare (filler cards, probably not playable in top-tier decks) Poop: Everything else :( Trade secrets is a bit special. If the opponent allows you to draw your entire deck, it's S-Tier for sure. If they only draw once, it's probably a C - a stronger secret rendezvous.

Recurring Nightmare, don’t forget, has the “Return {this} to your hand” as part of its activation cost, so opponents can never answer it.

You can activate Panoptic Mirror during your upkeep. Still has some weaknesses (5 mana up front and takes a round to do anything withoutvadditional support), but a lot more versatile than you think.

@brendanc9276

Жыл бұрын

it just goes infinite way too easily with any turn spell

Karakas is also very dumb because you can bounce your own commander which can be a bit broken edit: also you can respond to panoptic mirror's upkeep trigger by exiling something which makes it notably better

I know I'm late but I have to make a correction to what I heard about panoptic mirror; the ability can be activated at instant speed(unless errata was made that I'm unaware of) so at best the table has a turn to predict what's coming. Speaking as a control player,I wouldn't cast it until I could cast and imprint before my next turn. If I'm wrong indy assessment please inform me NN

Panoptic Mirror imprints at instant speed. You don't need to imprint on your turn and leave it open, you can imprint on the opponent's end step right before your turn. This means that you can bluff with it. Even if you have absolutely nothing to combo it with at a given moment, the sheer threat of it can still work as removal bait or force everyone to hold up needless interactions. It's by no means broken or necessarily deserving of a ban but it's not that bad either

@Muspellsheimr_

Жыл бұрын

You imprint on your upkeep, in response to the trigger. Guarantees at least one copy of the imprinted card, even if they have removal

I'd love to see a banned in modern tier list, comparing birthing pod to kci, uro, oko etc.

Flash was banned due to the fact that players can mulligan to 4 cards, then win before the game started.

10:38 I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that the Moxfield ad read will be directly after you talk about Limited Resources

I did get to play a few games with trade secrets before the ban, it was funny the first time we played the zedruu precon as the whole table realized what it meant in multi-player at the same time. And then it was an instant rule zero ban.

Primeval Titan is so good because it searches not for only Basiclands. It enters the Battlefield and you can search for your Cradle and maybe for a Strip Mine or something else. I'm sad that Rofellos is banned...

@crawdaddy2004

Жыл бұрын

Okay… then Crop Rotation should be banned? Knight of the Reliquary should be banned? Those put Cradle in untapped for much less mana.

@nilsgebhardt876

Жыл бұрын

@@crawdaddy2004 No should they not. The Knight and for Example Elvish Reclaimer you have to tap them and sacrifice Land, all so at Crop Rotation.

@crawdaddy2004

Жыл бұрын

@@nilsgebhardt876 So six-mana creatures should be less powerful? You pay for double Cultivate on a permanent that’s relatively easy to destroy and you get a bit more value than double Cultivate in one aspect and a little less in a different aspect? I was in a game that a player just bonked three of us with Marit Lage over the course of six turns. Is it because Marit Lage is OP or because three of us didn’t pack the necessary removal? Bans should be for cards that provide an advantage that scales too well in the format or cards that provide an almost insurmountable advantage. If someone plays a Prime Time, and it attacks three times, that means the opponents have collectively had nine turns and not dealt with it.

@nilsgebhardt876

Жыл бұрын

@@crawdaddy2004 Cultivate searches for only Basiclands. In a green Commander Deck you don't cast Primeval Titan in Turn six, he came's out in Turn 3-4. There is a Reason why he is only banned in Commander Format. That's the Combo Potential in Landfall Deck's, for example with Fetchlands.

For a short time when they released "pull from eternity" Shahrazad was still legal, and I tinkered with it. Apparently cards in the main game where considered to be in exile from the perspective of the sub-game... It was incredibly cute. They legit banned this thing after me playing with the deck once.

Hullbreacher's wording is kinda weird - for a moment i was reading it as "During each opponent's draw step, if that player would draw a card except the first one, instead you create a Treasure"... that actually sounds like a fun-ish card against Howling Mine / Sylvan Library type cards... would be way worse, but fair / playable if it was ever errata'd

@mitrimind1027

Жыл бұрын

I think it would be fine if it only replaced their first draw outside of their draw step.

When I first got into commander, I was making a simic deck and found prophet of kruphix in my binder. I thought to myself oh wow that’s a great card and then I found out about the ban, lol. I’m still sad about it.

@rodgerlang884

Жыл бұрын

I had the same experience with Sylvan Primordial

I dunno if someone brought it up but you can Isochron Scepter Flash for repeated use if you have a way to abuse it.

I put Primeval Titan in my Mayael deck when it first came out, got it out once, and then had to remove it due to the ban. I put Sylvan Primordial in my deck as a replacement, but it got banned before I ever got to use it. So then I put Iona back into the deck . . . Never got to try out Big Daddy G in my black decks either. Let my creatures go, RC! Anyway, great video as always, nerds!

@AnnaJaneMTG

Жыл бұрын

Grave Titan isn't banned

@starmanda88

Жыл бұрын

@@AnnaJaneMTG not sure if you’re joking but he’s referring to Griselbrand

@Oakenbull

Жыл бұрын

Everyone knows “Big Daddy G” is Grave Titan

Lmao I love how high Prophet of Kruphix was ranked. I played that card in Animar which was one of the best commanders for abusing this card (so I agree with the ranking). My opponent would play like 1-2 spells on their turn while I take 10+ minutes on EVERYONE'S turn.

Tinker is an easy S-Tier for the exact same reason it broke Magic the first time around: Memory Jar, which is legal in Commander. You would simply put every single piece of fast mana in your deck alongside every single efficient mana rock and mana dork and every tutor that can help you find Tinker - and then you would vomit your entire hand onto the battlefield on turn 1, sac your Mana Vault or artifact land with Tinker, find Memory Jar and end your turn with an absurd mana base and 7 cards in hand.

@posajnejkwahb

Жыл бұрын

But you would have to discard that hand at the end of the turn?

@davisjohnson7987

Жыл бұрын

This isn’t even the most broken thing you can do. The best thing to do with tinker is find bolas’ citadel and just win the game on the spot

@Nr4747

Жыл бұрын

@@davisjohnson7987 Depending on your land count, you won't actually win immediately, though - most likely anyway.

@vxicepickxv

Жыл бұрын

@@posajnejkwahb the original deck fired off 2 of them in one turn.

@posajnejkwahb

Жыл бұрын

@@vxicepickxv oh yeah I'm not disputing how crazy it was in standard at the time, but in the example given in a commander game you would discard those cards at the end of turn

Gifts Ungiven is also way less expensive. I think Intuition doesn't see as much paper play cause it's expensive

Its so absurd how they don't think flash is good. There are so many creatures that ETB or die nowadays and their balance is the casting cost. When you subvert the casting cost into a 2 mana spell, that can be Isochron Sceptered, no less, it gets really annoying. Like, it is the easiest way my friends Jhiora deck just won the game, on the turn before your big boy drops, you just end of prior turns postcombat main phase flash in bearer of the heavens, let it get sacced, destroy EVERYTHING and then runaway with the game with your eldrazi.

@emerson685

Жыл бұрын

Super agree. Flash in Agent of Treachery? Who needs the body, that's two mana steal anything. Or any of the Primordials? Get three free spells or three free creatures? Even if those are more casual plays compared to cards that just win the game, it's not a healthy interaction or healthy gameplay. And before people point out Reanimate can do it for less mana... Sure, but that actually requires some setup. Cards naturally get into your hand, they do no naturally end up in the graveyard on early turns without some additional mana/setup.

@sirplayalot11x

Жыл бұрын

@@emerson685 Even better, flash in a primordial and then reanimate to double up on the effects for 3 mana.

@baconsir1159

Жыл бұрын

Might as well just be reanimating at that point. Without Hulk, Flash is fine.

@velphidrow8317

Жыл бұрын

@@baconsir1159 not as long as academy rector is legal

I was running prophet of kruphix in my Momir Vig deck for a long time before I found out it was banned. It was crazy good there. Replaced it with Yeva and seedborn. Nowhere near as good tho.

13:20 with gifts you can pick only 2 cards to make sure they go to your cementery…. This mean it’s a one card combo with griselbrand and dread return.

Library at C lol. Library is the usually considered the tenth best card in the game right after the power nine. It's a guaranteed S in every deck.

@wizzopq

Жыл бұрын

Dude I almost cried watching this when they rated it C tier. I was like, "tell me you've never played with library without telling me you've never played with library." I think people see the 7 cards restriction and think it can be hard to meet, but in practice if you're playing with library you have access to *insane* card draw options like AR, and on top of that - library helps sustain itself! C tier rating is a crime and frankly it makes it hard for me to take other opinions on the list seriously

@brianlinden3042

Жыл бұрын

The entire list was warped by Joe insisting that Channel and Fastbond be in the B tier. It created a wall that other broken cards couldn't get past.

The difference is that with gifts ungiven you can get as few cards as you want because you can technically 'fail to find' and just entomb two cards in mono blue. Idk I don't think it breaks the game that much but meh

@Zanzibawrr

Жыл бұрын

holy shit i never even considered that.

@fosterdawson7339

Жыл бұрын

@@Zanzibawrr Rhystic Studies made a great video on someone using the card that way to win a tournament, I’d definitely recommend checking it out!

@Zanzibawrr

Жыл бұрын

@@fosterdawson7339 thanks, will do!

@vxicepickxv

Жыл бұрын

It's not even fail to find, it's just less than 4.

@incogneat0901

Жыл бұрын

@@vxicepickxv no it says four, not 'up to four.' If it didn't specify 'with different names' you'd have to get exactly 4 cards

The reason Flash is so powerful is that it is any ETB and/or death trigger in the game at instant speed for 1U. You want an instant speed Palinchron? Go for it! It even sends it to the grave for revival. With the hulk combo, you can even win without your opponent being able to respond at all, due to you fetching Grand Abolisher. Basically, if you can't stop Flash from resolving, you just lose, full stop. It was very uninteractive and unfun. And this is coming from someone who ran the cEDH deck.

Coalition Victory is broken easily by two cards: any WUBRG commander, and any card that makes your lands all basic land types. It's no S tier, but it's definitely earned its ban.

@DrMonty-ng5fo

Жыл бұрын

You don't even need the second part of the combo. The triomes count for 3 of the 5 basic land types, and can be tutored up by fetchlands. You basically only need 2 lands and a 5 color commander to win the game. Would be incredibly unfun.

@velphidrow8317

Жыл бұрын

@@DrMonty-ng5fo and 8 mana

Time vault and time walk are basically the same thing, 2 mana, take an extra turn, but time vault it easier to combo with.

I didn't know upheaval was banned and i was playing it in my jadzi deck. Literally was a scoop on sight.

if talking about power level in commander... karakas should be S, like, every single white deck would be like "I hope you don't depend on your commender" which is the reason why deckbuilding in commander is so good and enjoyable to play.

Gifts un given can tutor for just two cards and your opponent has to put both in the bin. Intuition requires three cards. In a reanimation shell the difference is amazing.

@trehenry413

Жыл бұрын

You can also fail to find the other 2 cards and just put them both into your hand.

@09419

Жыл бұрын

@@trehenry413 no you can't. It's search for up to 4 bin 2. No matter what you have to find one card and atleast two go to the graveyard. You search opponent (of your choice) chooses two of what you find and they go to your graveyard.

I have Black Lotus as an auto-include in every single one of my decks that runs Garth One-Eye. 🤣🤣🤣

@NitpickingNerds

Жыл бұрын

You had me in the first half

Everyone raves about dragon shields but imo the Ultra Pro matte sleeves are nicer and shuffle better for longer, and have a more snug fit on the card.

@Nitpicking Nerds: What happened to Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary?

I was just thinking upheavel plus cultivator colossus, feels pretty fair to me 🤔 but I guess it's banned because of the Staxy Stile people could play it, but that's than no difference to Armageddon. Cards that you shouldn't just randomly play.

I think the problem with Biorhythm is that it opens up a lot of problematic lines of play, all on its own. Imagine that one guy at your lgs plays Biorhythm while you and him are the only two at the table with 0 creatures on board. Also the rate of life changed is really unfair. You can argue that expropriate or Worldfire are even worse, but I think both of those require luck or an already set up board to accomplish. If you resolve a biorhythm while everyone has five creatures in play, you’ve effectively dealt 140 damage, give or take however much everyone else has lost. That’s just my impression, though.

@MisterAssasine

Жыл бұрын

playing biorythm when it kills yourself is straightup trolling as it is not playing for win and I would refuse playing with that person anymore.

@charliewright2667

Жыл бұрын

@@MisterAssasine why get that upset over a game? Isn't it essentially the same as winning for him if you couldn't prevent it from happening? It's not like playing a single creature in a green deck is a big hurdle to get over lol (dryad arbor, any of the 1 mana dorks, etc.). If that's his plan and he executed it and got the wanted outcome, and you couldn't stop it, it just seems like he won in a different way. Is it any different from an insurrection or expropriate at that point? If anything those cards are worse since they can use your own board presence against you, greatly changing the projected outcome of the game.

12:02 Flash was a problem specifically in cEDH because you could start with a Gemstone cavern and exile a simian spirit guide and Flash Hulk on the first turns upkeep. the card used with Flash is/was Protean Hulk. The RC had unbanned Hulk and then Flash + Hulk became the cEDH meta for about a year ish, might have been 6 months.

@timothydalton2388

Жыл бұрын

that wasnt actually the issue, ya it can be a turn 1 win, but the real issue was that it promoted stagnant play, everyone could win at instant speed on top of everyone else's win, so everyone sat there and did nothing for 6 hours or until someone decided they had enough counterspells.

@mikastrae

Жыл бұрын

you could actually do this on turn zero, which is even more wrong

@user-nj3jg6if5i

Жыл бұрын

The probability of having a 4-card combo in your opening hand is negligible.

@vroomzoom4206

Жыл бұрын

@@user-nj3jg6if5i not when every deck is playing it and people are aggressively mulliganing for it.

I have an esper artifact deck where the goal is to tutor out a huge artifact creature with tinker and just beat face 😂 it’s so stupid but fun to get out the big metal bois

Eventually content creators will remember to add an S+ category for cards like storm crow, dreadmaw, and grave titan. Those three alone make the power nine look like bulk commons. Cmon Joe and Beezy, gotta do better.

@NitpickingNerds

Жыл бұрын

You had us in the first half 😭

Am I missing something, how is time walk better than time vault, they do the same thing but time vault is maybe repeatable and has no colour cost so can go in any decks

@NitpickingNerds

Жыл бұрын

Time vault enters tapped so it doesn’t do anything without some payoffs

@vxicepickxv

Жыл бұрын

@@NitpickingNerds like Paradox Engine?

If you play historic brawl you realize how miserable paradox engine is. It’s the best card in the format

Ancestral over Channel or Fastbond in EDH is pretty hilarious. I can see Lotus, as it's very easy to abuse and win games, but Ancestral is just drawing three cards at the end of the day. Busted for the mana cost, but not so much in a slower, more casual format. I think if such a card was definitively S tier for commander we'd see treasure cruise a lot more, but we don't.

Black Lotus vs Ancestral Recall: Depends o the point in the game. Lotus versus Recall on T1: Lotus eight ways to Sunday. Lotus versus Recall on T10: Recall eight ways to Sunday.

I would say that Flash with Bearer of the Heavens is quite a problem.

i saw a prophet of kruphix at my lgs and was like why is this 5 cents this is good af got home and found out it was banned sadge face

man it probably wouldnt be great because I'm new to MTG but i bet a deck with biorhythm and wrath with a cheap flash creature or the black wrath that only wipes out their creatures would be fun

Was this not all of the banned cards? I thought Emrakul, The Aeons Torn was banned in commander as well? Did I miss something?

@sallomon2357

Жыл бұрын

They said they didn't put legends here (like the black Braids they mentioned) and Emrakul is a legend, so...

@Ranca666

Жыл бұрын

It must have slipped them. It's still banned in commander, there are too many super easy ways to play infinite turns with it, and it has too much evasion (uncounterable+protection from colored spells is obscene) in a format that is all about interactivity.

@--Cat--

Жыл бұрын

@@sallomon2357 I must have missed that. Thanks a lot!

I think you sold Karakas short. Can you imagine playing against this? I don't mean it would be unfun (which it would), I mean it would feel completely unfair.

I remember a grueling 6 person game where someone won with Time Vault in Arcum cause he didnt know it was banned. And everyone was annoyed, but we all kinda just groaned and let him have it cause we all wanted to go home.

13:18 so your says if change gift ungiven to Sorcery it would be Unbanned really 🤔

@NitpickingNerds

Жыл бұрын

I don’t see where we said that?

if gifts ungiven becomes unbanned, unburial rites + creature would be all over the place

@vxicepickxv

Жыл бұрын

Unburial Rites, Sun Titan, Eternal Witness and Liliana of the Veil.

Library is banned, because each player draws for turn, so even if you go first and have this in hand, you are drawing an extra card every turn. It’s basically a zero mana enchantment that says, “Pay one mana to draw a card, you may do this only once per turn cycle.”

@derrickpaulson3093

Жыл бұрын

This is not why it is banned. This one comes down to price tag. When edh was first created one criteria was to ban cards that were too expensive for most players monetarily and This was one. As someone who has owned a Library and used it, it is good but not broken.

@crawdaddy2004

Жыл бұрын

@@derrickpaulson3093 Mishra’s Workshop, Bazaar of Baghdad and Tabernacle are all at least 500 dollars more than Library.

@velphidrow8317

Жыл бұрын

@@crawdaddy2004 not when the format was made

Moxfield ad guess: 28:53

Did I miss my beloved Emrakul? :O

I don’t think Yawgmoth’s Bargain would replace Ad Naus since it’s still 6 mana to cast. I think it would replace something like Peer Into The Abyss.

@vxicepickxv

Жыл бұрын

You have never played with or against Yawgmoth's Bargain.

@velphidrow8317

Жыл бұрын

Bargin is too easy to cheat into play

@benjaminking3677

Жыл бұрын

The easiest way I can think of is Academy Rector. But that only saves you two mana. Other than that you pretty much just hard cast it.

@velphidrow8317

Жыл бұрын

@@benjaminking3677 saving 2 mana is a lot

@benjaminking3677

Жыл бұрын

Sure, I’m not saying it’s bad. But there are better things you could be doing. Reanimating Razaketh or Vilis saves you 7 mana. Pattern of Rebirth into a Protean Hulk and win on the spot etc.

Every time I look at the prime times in my trade binder I get real sad. One of my favourite cards, maybe one day commander will be so power crept he can come back.

@hermodnitter3902

Жыл бұрын

The banlist is a joke. Dockside is legal and much better. If Prime Time was printed today, the RC would never have banned it to ensure high sales for wotc. Not even a question.

@Jessalakasam

Жыл бұрын

My Nine-Fingers deck would love it

@starmanda88

Жыл бұрын

Personally I think we are already there 💁🏻‍♀️

Explain time vault in A when time walk is S please. Time vault is 2 generic mana allowing it to go into every deck not just blue. And as stand alone cards, they do the same thing (extra turn for 2 mana)

@NitpickingNerds

Жыл бұрын

Time Vault enters tapped

@XdeathkingX94

Жыл бұрын

@@NitpickingNerds thank you for clarifying!

I remember when Prophet of Kruphix came out, and it had to be immediately removed or whoever controlled it completely ran way with the game. It took them too long to ban Prophet of Kruphix (2-3 years) and I feel that they did a much better job banning Hullbreacher almost immediately for the health of the format.

Gifts Ungiven would probably be ok if it was a sorcery.

Biorhythm got a functional reprint in creature form

Lmao that was funny when you guys shrunk the screen

The fun thing about trade secrets is that it was designed for commander. And it is strong because two players can draw its entire deck. Kind of a insta win for both of them.

@NitpickingNerds

Жыл бұрын

I think it’s an old card from like Onslaught but I may be wrong, it was definitely in a precon though

@derrickpaulson3093

Жыл бұрын

It existed long before commander was even a thing, before Sheldon Menery coined EDH. it was not made for commander.

16:56 - wrong It is my birthday today, and I love playing no banlist commander! Unpopular opinion: gifts ungiven is a worse conflux for half the mana, which doesn't matter because omniscience.

@dashkataey1740

Жыл бұрын

Gifts does something different though as it allows you to put cards into your graveyard and basically grab a two card combo at instant speed. Also, you can choose not to grab all four cards, you can choose two cards and have them both put into your graveyard, meaning it's basically two entombs.