join the pack! 🐺🐺🐺 click here for our discord after you subscribe! discord.gg/RkCgghrgUk Article from Kristen: blog.cardkingdom.com/aggro-is-really-good-in-commander-right-now/

“Creatures either get to be Mulldrifter, or Baneslayer Angel, but not both.” Voja- “Watch this though”

@lightworker2956

3 ай бұрын

Well yeah but there's also like 30 other commanders that do multiple good things at the same time.

The major problem with Voja is that it’s too strong to run in casual Commander but not strong enough to run in cEDH, leaving it only a tiny sliver of play groups where it’s a fair strategy, relegating it to High Power commander. Worse yet, High Power Commander is chock full of decks that will eat any deck without counterspells for breakfast, so Voja might STILL feel like they don’t quite belong.

@harmoniousrex

4 ай бұрын

This. Voja is a strong casual commander, a weaker High Power commander, and likely unplayable in cedh. Edit: by casual, I mean playgroups where Rafiq is considered a decent/strong commander.

@evanprimeau3810

4 ай бұрын

@@harmoniousrex I wish players would take a bit of time to learn more about what Commanders should be played at what power level. I’m tired of hearing “Don’t worry, my Urza Deck is casual, it’s not the cEDH build” at FNM. There are many Commanders that just cannot be built casual due to their strength in the Command Zone, and you can’t expect people to play their casual decks when you bring out a Commander that can solo the table by turn 5 without help.

@Future_Fabulous

4 ай бұрын

Hehe, sliver

@brendans1983

4 ай бұрын

Went to write what you said, but thought I'd scroll to see if anyone had addressed it yet 👍

@EionBlue

4 ай бұрын

Pretty much, a friend in our group brought it as soon as he could, first game he bulldozed the whole table because we weren't ready for it, and then failed to resolve anything relevant the next game because everyone knew just how fast that deck snowballed, after which it just couldn't keep up.

Wizards needs to stop making commanders that by themselves are win cons, draw engines, payoffs and make you coffee all wrapped up into one.

@SSolemn

4 ай бұрын

I think that with many new players, they need to create these "ready to play and win" Commanders I try to play only fringe/underrated and open ended Commanders, because part of the fun for me is building the decks and make them work. Some people don't like or doesn't have the time or the abilities to build decks on their own....

@gutsbadguy50

4 ай бұрын

@@SSolemnPrecons exist for people who don't want to build decks and they work fine. Cards like Voja on the other hand exist for one reason: to sell packs.

@leelovitt1828

4 ай бұрын

No they don't that's the entire point of having a commander

@Hfsm33

4 ай бұрын

​@@leelovitt1828no? You have perfectly balanced commanders that don't do everything at once.

@leelovitt1828

4 ай бұрын

@@Hfsm33 sounds like a skill isue

My favorite statement joel made and the one i personally feel. It isn’t that this commander needs to be banned but it falls in the atraxa style of power where it has to be killed and a lot and either you won’t have fun playing the deck because you won’t have a hand filled up enough to deal with the constant interaction players will use on you and it’ll lead to boring games. Or you pub stomp people that don’t know how to deal with that level of threat

@ich3730

4 ай бұрын

"Remove me or get rolled" describes like, every playable commander

@crossxfade12

4 ай бұрын

​@@ich3730yes!! If you start winning, people will start complaining about your commander.... People that complain about such commanders tend to prefer playing magic solitaire on his/her side of the table and get angry when you remove their synergy pieces lol.

@FlawlessP401

4 ай бұрын

Your definiton of playable is odd​@@ich3730

@riverhale6469

4 ай бұрын

I compare it more to Korvold and ob nixilis, imo but agreed

@brandoncreek5709

4 ай бұрын

​@ich3730 Eh, I dunno. There are plenty of decks where the commander is just a redundant synergy piece and not the setup, payoff and win condition all rolled into one. Also putting ward 3 on this thing is egregious

The Ward 3 on it is ridiculous. If you don't start with ramp and removal in your opening hand it's extraordinarily difficult to remove before it starts popping off

@HeyNaviHey

4 ай бұрын

Rather have a wrath effect, to remove their ramping elves AND Voja. The ward 3 is neck breaking, because they're already pulling ahead with their mana dorks. Can't wait to cram 16 board wipes into all my casual edh decks.

@Uefeti

4 ай бұрын

Wrath of God is a card which existed for more than 10 years.

@KuroiRenge

3 ай бұрын

​​@@UefetiIt's also 4 mana, which you will not have before Voja is out if you do not have ramp, it has to be in your hand at that time, and is a one and done card. You know what isn't? Voja.

@lightworker2956

3 ай бұрын

​@@KuroiRenge The Voja player has to go first and have two elves, and you need to not have a mana rock, for Voja to be able to attack before you can Wrath. That's pretty unlikely. Even then, an attack of "2x elf, Voja" won't instantly kill you. I sort of get that people don't like being attacked for lots of damage, but at the same time, board-based, non-haste, "I die to Wrath" aggro is such a bad strategy in multiplayer that you need a potent commander to make it work. If the board-based, non-haste aggro player plays "reasonable cards" then there's no way he's winning a multiplayer game. Even Voja, pushed as it is, isn't a top-tier commander.

Who could have guessed that a repeatable, better Craterhoof Behemoth in the command zone for elfball was a bit much?

@Uefeti

4 ай бұрын

I mean, Jetmir is just better in that role.

@Jesus_D._Christ

3 ай бұрын

​@@Uefeti jetmir doesn't have ward 3

@Uefeti

3 ай бұрын

@@Jesus_D._Christ Jetmir doesn’t need one as hard as Voja When he comes into play, he kills you, because his effect is instantl

There's a line of text in the game I used to hate and that was "this spell can't be countered". Voja has changed my opinion about that line of text.

If your entire playgroup have to all change their playstyle just to compensate for this one new commander it might be a sign it's a little to powerful. But at the same time, PEOPLE DONT RUN ENOUGH INTERACTION!!!!!

I didn't understand the all of the rage around Voja when I first saw it, but after rereading it and realizing that it puts X +1/+1 counter on EACH creature you control and not just one creature... yeeeeeeeeeah I think I understand now. That's actually disappointing because I had the original version of Tolsimir back in the old ravnica block (Oh my god that was almost 20 years ago)

@51gunner

4 ай бұрын

And it's a counter! If someone throws down a Craterhoof (or Moonshaker Cavalry now) you might be able to Fog your way through the turn and do something on the next. With them being counters, all that power is still on board, and is going to get even meaner the turn after.

I would like to bring up Jodah the unifier. They split it into Voja and pantlaza, and all three commanders have the problem that they demand that someone not play the game. Either Voja/pant/JodahU gets to play their game plan and they're the only one getting to play the game since they end the game so quick, or Voja/pant/jodahU is being hard targetted so much that they don't get to play the game. This is just feel bad because I don't want to hate someone out of the game, but if I don't, then I don't get to play the game.

If wizards let’s 4c partner commanders run rampant, Voja isn’t even on their radar.

@loosemoose5217

4 ай бұрын

wizards does not control the ban list for commander

I don't want Voja banned in commander. I do however want it banned in brawl as it is absolutely miserable in a 1 vs 1 format.

@JakeandJoelareMagic

4 ай бұрын

I feel like it's easier to deal with 1v1...

@YellowLantern12

4 ай бұрын

​@@JakeandJoelareMagic It can get fast. I've dropped him on turn 3 in Arena and just wrecked my opponent in Brawl.

@schrodingersowl8774

4 ай бұрын

​@@JakeandJoelareMagic no its a problem in brawl where many players play mono colored decks due to not wanting to spend all their wildcards on rare lands and if you only get spot removal it is practically impossible to remove this thing without the voja player buffing their whole board by 3 or 4 +1+1 countered AND drawing a card to replace it

@nelsonstetson3844

4 ай бұрын

Brawl players be like

@Patarach

4 ай бұрын

Its obvious all the people that were playing etali that I ran into every other game are now running voja. Its really boring even if I can beat them 50% of the time.

WotC really went ‘You know that custom card we gave Werewolf tribal? Give it to elves and give it protection.’

It really does suck playing a game where the board gets wiped every other turn cause the person who board wipes and passes gets super screwed by the two players who didnt

@janhillebrandt2371

4 ай бұрын

Nahh, Commander is a Low Key politics Game, Just Talk. I have a Voja Deck and i see it a lot that Players Talk more and plan against him. Most of the time the Player who removed Voja ist the hero of the table for 2 Turns.

@Sandaryu

4 ай бұрын

In my experience at all 3 of my lgs's that's exactly what happens

@anannoyedpanda

4 ай бұрын

Sounds like too many board wipes, which is indicating bad players.

@lightworker2956

3 ай бұрын

That's the classic issue of all multiplayer games: it pays to be greedy and to convince / force others to commit resources to solving common problems. And the guy who does commit resources to solving common problem is the sucker who ultimately doesn't win the game.

I was already on your thought process when I was building Voja. Every elfball Commander deck I've ever built gets wrecked by board wipes. In Voja, I leaned heavily into the white in (his? her? Forgive me for not knowing) color identity to run roughly a dozen instants that either make the team indestructible or phase the team out until end of turn. I may be a turn later casting Voja sometimes, but I typically won't cast the wolf unless I can hold up board wipe mitigation on top of it. I've had a lot of success with this strategy thus far.

@enricomassignani

4 ай бұрын

Voja is male

@mattdeters8306

4 ай бұрын

@@enricomassignani Good to know.

@mrTjstephens1

4 ай бұрын

Voja is definitely a commander you don't play without boardwipe protection of some kind. Any deck that is this heavily reliant on the commander to do the work and tells you to go wide. You want to be able to protect your team

Honestly the thing that bugs me the most is that it’s another elfball commander, I want some cracked tribal commanders for the underplayed tribes of mtg

@Trogdorbad

4 ай бұрын

I'm making do with Xavier Sal but wotc please give us a sultai legend that supports Skeletons and just print more real skeleton support in general, zombies have enough

@mr.mammuthusafricanavus8299

4 ай бұрын

@@TrogdorbadYeah throw Skeleton tribal some more bones because it is quite slim pickings ;p LOL

@zackkelley2940

4 ай бұрын

@@mr.mammuthusafricanavus8299 We DID just get Corpses of the Lost and Skeleton Crew but yes.... VERY slim.

@cliiwen

4 ай бұрын

I agree with you, but for what it's worth, elves are not particularly good in commander. They're a boogeyman strategy because they can dump their hands. But winning with creatures against 120 life total is not a very reliable or fast strategy.

@kellysereda4961

4 ай бұрын

@@Trogdorbad Some creature types aren't quite fair. Like, Cat includes house cats, big cats & humanoid cats, where as canines are separated as dog, hound, wolf, fox, etc. Similarly, I kind of feel like there should 'super typal' decks - canine, feline, *undead* (including skeletons, zombies, liches, etc.) that give a lesser benefit to like tribes.

As someone who has built and played against Voja... He is definitely too much. Against him, I saw him drop turn 3, and there was nothing we could do to stop the following attack. And that one attack managed to give his whole team 4 +1/+1 counters, that were a problem most of that game. The only saving grace for the game was the facedown deck playing Ixidron, which stopped further shenanigans for a while.

@kargnak

4 ай бұрын

Ixidron is a really bad card though. In that jank-tier environment most commanders are going to look better than they actually are.

With Ward 1 it would be ok. With Ward 3, even Deadly rollick is minimum 3 Mana and I do not play it, cause it is also badass. WTF.

i think the only reason Voja is being such a big deal is that it's probably the first time Brawl has had to deal with something on a Commander scale Brawl has much less Kill on Sight Commanders. so now that they have one, it's a big reality check.. that low cost removal/Counters are necessary

@almond5284

3 ай бұрын

Also, Kill-On-Sight Commander in Brawl is kind of a misnomer because it's a 1v1 format, I'm ALWAYS trying to kill EVERYBODY on sight, ASAP. You can't mitigate this level of power with the usual lynch mob strategy.

@Lightmagician60

3 ай бұрын

@@almond5284 fair, F4A games do have an extra layer, painting a target on yourself is a fast way to get 2v1'ed or 3v1'ed. 1v1 doesn't have that... it's like how in the limited support of 1v1 commander "Kaalia of the Vast" was banned. but is perfectly fine in F4A

@MachiriReviews

3 ай бұрын

Low cost removal becomes high cost that just gets dicked on because Voja just gets ramped out again by 1 drop dorks.

Karlov Manor just released quite a few interaction cards that can't be countered too, all because Ward was a very common occurrence in that set.

The only thing I don't like about Voja is the way it was distributed.

@scarfhat1

4 ай бұрын

It was fucking stupid

I didn’t even consider this creature as a commander. I use it as a piece in my Rukarumel Tribal Tribal deck.

@joekline5554

4 ай бұрын

Fuck now I gotta add it to mine

@sketchymofo

4 ай бұрын

You got a list? Been trying to make Tribal Tribal happen. Rukarumel I know is the most feasible commander but want to know how well it works for you.

@isaacbrewer7064

4 ай бұрын

@@sketchymofo the combo I build around is Rukarumel, Biologist, Intruder Alarm, and Mana Echoes. Activate the sliver ability with enough creatures out and she starts untapping herself. Specific lords are gonna depend on your pod meta. She’s currently a little slow and easy mode for my pod, but I think Assassin’s Creed and Ezio Auditore da Firenze will really help her out. Dunno if Assassins creed is gonna help me with her more, or if I should just helm the tribe with Ezio yet. We’ll see.

I wonder if it drew cards for each elf and put counters for each wolf if it would be as broken.

@nicholas8739

4 ай бұрын

It'd be more broken. Easier to draw a ton of cards and then you put at least one +1/+1 counter on each creature you control. Voja as it is now puts lots of counters on your creatures, but is likely to draw only a couple cards.

@laytonjr6601

4 ай бұрын

So, instead of craterhoof behemoth now it's a draw 10?

@giantninja9173

4 ай бұрын

@@nicholas8739and since it’s dual tribal you can just use changelings. Mirror entity and maskwood nexus are good adds

As soon as I saw this card release I started to read it and thought "Oh this is awesome.. oh this is way too much."

Casual commander players will really complain about everything

@Merc1987

Ай бұрын

I had a person in my pod quit playing because I countered his 3 mana commander once, and then I just kept mana open. Literally rage quit the table

Honestly, the biggest issue with Voja for me is the fact Wizards felt the need to staple Ward 3 onto it despite it already not having much of a downside. It necessitating boardwipes is just not a fun play experience, and when dealing with a format like commander, a fun play experience is more important than technical balance. A Voja either is answered with boardwipes and does nothing, or the table can do nothing and get stomped because it takes 5 or 6 mana on average to remove it in most colors, meaning you have to dedicate almost all your mana to outing it if you use a single target removal spell. About as much as the average boardwipe if not more expensive. Of course, Voja having keyword soup is also irritating, but the ward part just fuels the need for boardwipes or dying which is a not fun experience for a casual format

I just played with my Voja deck for the first time last Sunday and once it gets going, it’s hard to stop it. Naya colors also give me access to red elemental blast/pyroblast and a few green and white cards that make it so my creatures can’t be countered, and white and green also gives me access to every good protection spell in existence. I run silence, Teferi’s protection, heroic intervention, and everybody lives! and odds are good to draw at least one of them in my opening hand. These colors also give me access to aura shards and the best white board wipes if I’m in a pinch. Voja is unstoppable. I love it.

Made a standard brawl deck in Arena...not many mana dork elves in standard right now, but I'm still finding some pretty consistent success. There are enough wolves out there in standard to make keep things moving along.

See, this discussion is meaningless to me as a Judith player. Ward or not, 1 mana destroys their entire board. My power knows no bounds.

Commander as a format has reasonable answers for basically everything, and even as a high power casual commander it doesn’t really do anything that egregiously overpowered, or even necessarily strong. It can’t combo efficiently, and all of its effects are based on the fact that you need to have a commanding board presence. Every color on the color pie outside of green has easily tutored, efficient answers to basically anything the deck can do. People just seem to not like running interaction in a game where it’s desperately needed. While the, “it dies to X argument” doesn’t really add anything, it’s nowhere near oppressive, or powerful enough to even get close to a ban when we have dozens of commanders that can win exceptionally early, and have 1~2 card combos that win the game on the spot.

@gregprice4834

4 ай бұрын

I mean not everyone is comboing off, even if high powered, and the speed at which this commander puts pressure and requires a response while making a player take a turn off to kill it is pretty rough. Is it bannable? Nah, boardwipes handle this deck is easy, but this card is strong

@jorjor500

4 ай бұрын

@@gregprice4834 I’m not saying it’s not decent, but it’s relatively slow, and its effect isn’t some game breaking ability. By the time the deck truly gets online it’s no faster or slower than things like Jetmir, Winota, or even other elf ball commanders like Selvala or Marwyn. I could list dozens of commander that are stronger than this one. Is it fun and unique, sure, but it’s not pushing anywhere near bannable territory. This is just another knee jerk reaction by people, similar to Elesh Norn mother of machines was before release and she turned out to not even be that great. People in commander tend to just get mad at random stuff all the time.

@lightworker2956

3 ай бұрын

Yeah, I agree. Are people getting triggered because Voja is exposing that their pet deck is too greedy and doesn't run enough interaction, or something? Voja is strong but isn't close to being the strongest commander, and board-based non-haste "I attack with creatures" decks is one of the strategies that is easiest to interact with in all of magic. It's also a strategy that is notoriously weak to Wraths, which Voja doesn't protect against at all. If you read people's arguments why Voja is overpowered, you'd think that "elf, elf, Voja" was a turn four kill. But it really isn't, one Voja attack doesn't win the game. And yeah, if you let an aggro deck develop their board for 3-4 turns and then attack two turns in a row and no one interacts with them at all... of course they're going to kill someone. If you don't want creature decks to be able to kill someone in that scenario, then are you being fair to the aggro player? This is hardly the most broken thing in the format. I can see a scenario where Voja destroys a low-powered table, but you can pick any strong commander and imagine a scenario where they destroy a low-powered table.

At my LGS we did a 4 player Voja table. Things hit the fan quick. It could be it's own game move how crazy Voja deck can blow up.

A 4 mana path to exile or swords to plowshares would put you so far behind on board presence. Nice time to build pillow fort.

My playgroup and I (friend who plays Voja included) agreed that the card would have been much better if the +1/+1 counters were instead +1/+1 until the end of turn. That said, as someone who plays Miirym, I'm glad theres a stronger "OMG WTF commander" drawing the ire of everyone. Now, my response to "play more removal" how much should I be running now? 5? 10? 15? Is that every deck? Or do I pull out a deck thats mostly interaction into Voja which is dirty imo.

The clips, editing, and visual effects on this video are excellent. I'm only halfway and I've laughed out loud twice. This definitely is up there with your Blake and Commodore Guff vid in terms of lols. A+++

I’m hearing a lot of whining in a format where things like korvold, winota, exist. You dismiss jetmir because you can remove him, but jetmir gets around that by not being cast until your hatebears make it safe. You just lock down the board with stax then overrun and double strike to win. Obviously voja (pronounced voy ah btw) is strong. No one will dispute that. But to say that it’s a format warping, near bannable commander makes it seem like you’re just upset that you lost to it. Honestly, at least voja is very open with what he wants to do. Play elves, attack. Other commanders like vadrik or mizzix just win instantly from zero board state. Commanders like Kess or shalai or Malcolm have one card combos. Godo is a zero card combo! Theres just a lot of broken things in commander. Voja isn’t the worst offender.

@lightworker2956

3 ай бұрын

Yeah, completely agree. Sure Voja is strong, but attacking with a bunch of non-haste creatures is a fundamentally fair strategy. It's good at executing this fair strategy, but it's still a fair strategy. I think people are just mad because they're not running enough interaction to deal with Voja, because "make a bunch of creatures and attack" is such a fundamentally fair and easy-to-interact-with strategy.

I planned for my Voja team being board wiped by deploying greater good the turn before. Drew 51 cards, discarded 15. Had all the protection I needed for the rest of the game as I drew reliquary tower in the 51.

@Brandon-bs5rg

4 ай бұрын

I too decided to put greater good in the deck lol

@hiddenleaf414

4 ай бұрын

You would still need haste to get the pump. If you have a haste enabler on board then your opponents should be board wiping before Voja gets on the board.

Voja is the perfect power level with most of the players in my local meta, and the first deck I've built where I sit down and actually feel like the threat. And it STILL loses plenty of games

Voja highlights problems inherent in multiplayer formats, namely that 1 for 1 removal sucks. You can't afford to waste your removal controlling the voja player's 1 and 2 drops, but you also cant spend your entire turn paying the ward cost to remove voja or you fall behind the other two players. Neither of those things are a problem in 1v1; ive played against voja plenty in brawl, and it's strong sure, but it doesn't feel problematic like it does in commander. I can spot remove a couple dorks and not feel bad about it, and paying the ward cost to remove voja doesnt feel much worse than when an opposing commander draws a card on etb or otherwise gets a card worth of value.

@lightworker2956

3 ай бұрын

Well yeah, but conversely, the strategy of "attack with creatures" sucks because if I spend my time casting creatures and attacking Bob with it, then Bob and I both fall behind the guy who just sits there ramping mana and drawing cards. So if you want to make "attack with creatures" viable and stop commander from just being four people ramping their mana and drawing cards, you do need tools that make "attack with creatures" a reasonable plan, even despite it inherently sucking in multiplayer.

@jayjayhooksch1

3 ай бұрын

@@lightworker2956 you and Bob need to learn threat assessment; attack the guy ramping and drawing cards.

I just stop building Kill on Sight commanders. Especially if your deck is dependant on your commander being on the board. If you can't keep it on the board, then you won't enjoy the game. And don't get mad at the other players for continuously removing it.

I think Voja is incredibly strong…but it has to attack. So this is just another “just wait till I untap!” cards - you can’t let it get another turn or you’ll probably lose…but there’s a bunch of commanders in that same bucket

@indicalultimate2205

4 ай бұрын

He

3 things: The Conclave is Selesnya, Voja shouldn't have red. It should be +1/+1 until end of turn, not +1/+1 counters. And ward 3 shouldn't be on there unless there is some reason that this wolf has fur blessed by the Gods. BOOM! That easy! How to make a fun, but not broken Elf/Wolf commander!

As someone that's ultra-casual, where I'm running Voja as a wolf-tribal commander where it will not come out until turn 5 or later, and Farewell is a scoop card because drawing more cards than your draw step isn't casual, I like Voja. You have to wait a turn to swing, he's a good boy, the trigger is on attacking so you're not dealing with blockers pre-fizzling any "combat damage to a player" effects, he's a good boy, he supports two different tribals so I can run my Fearless Pups and my Winter Wolves and not get laughed at, he's a good boy, and he's an elfball payoff that isn't that tired Craterhoof Behemoth for the eighty billionth time. Very similar, but it's on flavor with elves and wolves specifically instead of generic go-wide. Also, he's a good boy, very angy. As someone whose only table is the semi-high power tables where non-blue counterspells are expected, board wipes are ubiquitous, and turn 1 Sol Ring into Lightning Greaves happens often enough that the joke "he's cheating" has long since lost its humor, Voja's only mistake was being a green card. Green has forever been the ramp color, you might as well have anything with a green pip have Convoke 2 where up to two creatures can tap for mana. Voja played optimally as an elfball commander with zero wolves is hitting the ground turn 3-4 with haste and the game has officially restorted to either someone having drawn into a Blasphemous Act, or the game is over. That's the Voja everyone is afraid of. If you see Mono-Blue Urza in the command zone, you're thinking it's gonna be some degenerate Affinity Cascade, not Urza Tribal complete with crap artifacts like Glasses of Urza or Urza's Chalice (though for that you should be playing the Esper one for more colors).

really good analysis. so many things these days just require decks to have removal at almost all times.

Honestly, I see Voja decks having a phasing component to survive. Maybe even running Veilstone Amulet with pump spells to essentially give it's team hexproof. That being said, one Commander I think could knock out Voja pretty regularly is a properly built Feather, the Redeemed. And the two ways it does this is the three-card combo Arcbound + Gideon's Sacrifice + Fight as One, as this combo essentially kills Voja for attacking. The second way is to use Intimidation Bolt or Orym's Chant + Isochron Scepter, which is literally a way to keep Voja from attacking. A similar two-card combo is Stonehorn Dignitary + Conjurer's Closet, or, if you have fliers and they don't, Blinding Angel. A similar Angel that could come down is Angelic Arbiter, though all she does is force Voja to attack without casting anything. Lastly, Voja can be stopped by a really old card that doesn't see much play: Prison Term. Unlike many Pacifism-style effects, Prison Term doesn't target in order to be moved -- so Voja's Ward 3 does nothing. Even then, tapping down Voja is also a thing. You can also use Meekstone if Voja has already attacked to keep it from untapping. The point is, there is always a way to deal with Voja. The problem people are having? Running so efficient a deck that they are constantly caught with no mana available when Voja makes its first attack. Yet, if you used cards like Diversionsary Tactics or Glare of Subdual to constantly keep Voja tapped down, then Voja gets its trigger once, maybe twice. At the bare minimum, they have to devote something that removes what is holding them back. So, what does this really say? Run removal, and run versatile cards that act as removal. Because players can find a balance. It's just that the ones complaining don't want to do the work, and would rather the RC do it for them.

As an Edgar Markov guy, I LOVE Voja!

@jeremiahchamberlain4179

4 ай бұрын

I love both of them too

@xxXDrManhattanXxx

4 ай бұрын

jail

@HeyNaviHey

4 ай бұрын

Sure, but will you still love it, when everybody starts cramming 20 board wipes into their casual edh decks?

@jeremiahchamberlain4179

4 ай бұрын

@@HeyNaviHey who doesnt include board wipe recovery in a deck. Plus what a boring deck 20 boardwipes. Super yawn.

@johnpratts2856

4 ай бұрын

@@HeyNaviHey I'm an Edgar Markov guy. I expect board wipes. 😋

I did playa. Game where I cast a blast act vs voja turn 4. And one person still does turn 6. And game ended turn 8

Run choice based removal like Make an Example. You get to pick what you remove and gets around ward. You’re welcome.

Voja is Craterhoof at home!

@mr.wafflesrz1137

4 ай бұрын

That would be jetmir

@deadNdivine12

4 ай бұрын

They both are.. ​@@mr.wafflesrz1137

@HaikBoyadjian2

4 ай бұрын

@@mr.wafflesrz1137 not really because jetmirs boost is a flat increase. Voja increase actually functions like crater.

@mr.wafflesrz1137

4 ай бұрын

@@HaikBoyadjian2 Yeah but Jetmir buff stays on the board compared to Craterhoof one time thing

@HaikBoyadjian2

4 ай бұрын

@@mr.wafflesrz1137 voja increase effect is for power and toughness and it's permanent even if voja is removed?

Damn is a 4 mana boardwhipe correct? as you pay 2UU to cast it and replace target for each. Resulting in all creatures being destroyed. I think that is how Overload works, if I got it wrong, please correct me so I can stop cheating.

@JakeandJoelareMagic

4 ай бұрын

No you're right, I used it as an example of removal that could scale into a wipe but yeah, it's four Mana wipe

@Morkins324

4 ай бұрын

Yes. It is Wrath of God, but also has a BB single target mode. I say this because 99% of the time it will be cast as Wrath of God.

@jaceg810

4 ай бұрын

@@Morkins324 Correct, It is cheaper somehow though, probably because its color identity is more restrictive and it is a commander card.

@TheSpiritombsableye

4 ай бұрын

I can promise you that Damn doesn't cost 2UU.

@the-four-seven

4 ай бұрын

​@@TheSpiritombsableye2 generic and two Uhite mana

In commander there are 3 important factors. Card Advantage, Ramp/Mana, and a way to win. A commander should always do at least one of those. A good commander should always do 2 or more. Voja provides Card Advantage and a Wincon, and being a tribal commander for elves takes care of the ramp for him. That makes him a great casual commander, but he does have weaknesses. His limitations are mainly with his color selection, the fact that he is a tribal commander, and the fact that he doesn't do anything on his own if you pick off the elves. You need to build around him and have other things on the board with him for him to do his job. Then his biggest weakness is interaction, which a lot of people are just very bad at including in their decks. He excels against poorly built decks and is a great benchmark commander to test decks against. A well-built deck will not have many issues dealing with a Voja player at the same power level. I think that being tribal and not having access to black make him a well-balanced commander overall, and better commanders have been printed in parecons and also in the same set.

*Me enjoying playing this Voja and losing all my friends* Me: "Worth it"

bruh, that elf wildlife intro. ☠️🐺

As a heavy aggro player, I love Voja. Started building him the moment I received it. So far I've played 6 games with Voja and went 3-3. He is definitely a target the moment he hits the battlefield.

I agree it doesn't need to be banned, but I think the solution being "Your deck needs Voja counters" isn't ideal. Elfball is elfball and having to mulligan for counters/wipes and sit on mana so you're ready by turn 3 isn't enjoyable. If you didn't get a mana rock, your turn 4 is Path to Exile and pass.

Interesting take on the Ward. My initial reaction to reading Voja was two. 1. I puked alittle in my mouth and became instantly salty with this card. 2. I decided I wanted to build it so that everytime someone pulled out another broken ass commander deck I had mine ready and waiting.

People act like we haven’t seen power creep before.

I agree with your closing thoughts, ward 3 is necessary evil on this type of commander.

I’ve played against this deck in its most powerful form a few times now and JEEEBUS it slaps… but not ban worthy. You can sweep the elves, counter wolf, stoping combat etc… you can play against it.

@TioFranTV

4 ай бұрын

Is a strong commander, but, even in his colors there are stronger, like shalai and elf whose name i don't remmember, a 4 cost card which combo with a card effect in a echantment or creature. It's just another good elfball commander, just control him or be faster

For removal you guys should try the one that makes people sacrifice they’re highest cmc creature

I grabbed a bunch of random elves, about 10 protection spells with 2 or less mana, and chucke them into a Voja deck. It absolutely annihilates. Forcing opponents to pay 5 to 7 mana for removal and then making voja hexproof anyways is back breaking. I will say after playing about 10 games with the deck so far, the table will usually kill voja repeatedly if they can which can absolutely shut the deck down. I recommend including Heliod and Shalai as a backup wincon.

I had a fun interaction where I had Zask and Mortipede with Swarmyard. So that Vigilance was a MAJOR downside. All the Voja player's creatures had to block Mortipede, Zask gave Mortipede +1/+0 and Deathtouch, and Swarmyard regenerated Mortipede.

this with Maskwood Nexus, or any other way to have your entire field gain Changeling would be sick. Everything you have is an Elf and also a Wolf, so all of those conditions are now "for each creature you control"

"Stacked, jacked and ready to attack" I'm gonna steal that quote for my Vorinclex Monstrous Raider deck whenever I summon him and just give it over 20 +1/+1 counters

I'm convinced that WOTC wants players to run more interaction in their decks, so they make commanders like this to force it.

Voja is litmus test card. If you think it needs to be banned, unfortunately, you are probably not very good at magic the gathering.

4 people in my pod of 12 friends have been playing this commander a lot all with different builds. None have won a game yet and tend to be killed first almost every time. Without ward it would not be even talked about, just a fun commander. Ward lets it stick around. Think about what removal you have and how it interacts with cards like this. There are so many mass removal spells that cost less mana than this commander. When you have 3 other people at the table it should die before it gets to that players turn again. It is a powerful new commander and people will have fun with it. The real question people should ask is "Why is Primeval Titan still banned?".

All the stock footage jump cuts nearly gave me whiplash

I'd definitely prefer haste. Voja is telegraphed so you can hold up mana to interact with him but if you're not playing green and can pay the cost... what do you do? At least if he as hasted you could be confident that your instant speed removal will be effective. Voja also comes off the back of the whole Farewell discussion and singlehandedly makes a boardwipe more cost effective than any single target removal.

Why is it red tho

The hell is wrong with board wipe pass? Usually when it's done, it's necessary; everyone thanks you. Also, haste on it instead would be BROKEN. At that point, then it would be absurd. But having summoning sickness at all, with or without ward, is great because it gives three other players a cycle to deal with it.

I built him and so far love it, he gets removed often and I haven’t had too many issues with him being broken so far, ward doesn’t protect against counterspells and is negated by cards that say can’t be countered

Day 0 is too soon, Lutri could have just been denied use as a Companion for the immense ease of use. Ward 3 on Voja is out of place on a Legendary Creature of the Selesnya Conclave whose protection are thematically spells they actively cast to defend themselves. Passive protection like Ward would be seen on guilds like Dimir, Azorius, and Orzhov. Also note your 2 mana removal and paying the 3 extra for ward is terrible as the Voja player has been ramping so Voja can be on board well before you have that 5 mana because green and elves love mana ramp. Drawing per Wolf is wild btw

Here's one way to avoid having to wait one full round before Voja can swing. Cast Yevah, Nature's Herald while leaving enough mana open to cast Voja, wait until the end step of the player to your right, then cast Voja (a Green creature who now has Flash thanks to Yevah), and you essentially have a Hasted Voja on your turn. You're welcome.

“The Thing” in this case is at least more fun than a hard lock or a turn 0-2 combo. It’s just really good at doing the thing.

I think im gonna built it. Love the aggro playstyle. I run Gishath and just make sure i have plenty of counterspells and protection in it

@tr4pkeedyoungking677

4 ай бұрын

Voja can't have very many counter spells in commander.

@johnn3489

4 ай бұрын

@tr4pkeedyoungking677 I run gishath with several good counterspells. There are some underrated white and red counters. It's always satisfying countering a force of will with a red Elemental Blast or pyroblast

Me a blue player saying cry more. If you think this is touching the field or is staying more than a turn after it does you’re sorely mistaken

We need to make “super commander: a two hundred card singleton where we have 80 life, 40 commander damage and each player has a “shield counter which saves them from one “You win/You lose” trigger.

Nice analogy… “Goblin Ding Dong” LOL… so mom goes to the market and starts talking about the fact that she and her son were discussing, gobbling ding dong to her friends?!?

Damn son, only two snaps on that cap! Great content, keep up the good work.

@JakeandJoelareMagic

4 ай бұрын

lol! I've got a big dome, it's to contain my massive brain.

is this related to how Arin demolished the table with Voja?

Commander in general has evolved to run more targeted removal and far less board wipes. Voja breaks parody with the way the format has become. If your general meta has several players who run Voja, you need to revamp your decks to include more board wipes.

Voja is alright my buddy plays it i just put up 40 plus points of damage to him with ghired before turn 5

Iff it got counters for number of wolves and cards for elves i think it would be bet received

6:21 cheers Reference i just watched all of that show lol

I don’t see the issue/ problem with this card because I fight dinosaurs with ward 10 and they are 11/11 trample haste and I still win with my kaalia of the vast commander

If you play Voja, I hope to face you one day with my Dihada deck. I run 7 targeted removal, 9 board wipes and my creatures will usually be indestructible. Not a personal vendetta at all, I'm just thinking about how that matchup would be potentially really bad for Voja.

Voja is a glass cannon. Thats all. It either goes off or does nothing. Also its not even a cEDH deck

I pulled Voja and built the deck. Then slowed down the the deck a bit and it still crushes. Our pod is bigger tho.

Kinda saw this coming when WotC went and made a legendary blightsteel (phyrexian etali)

Lol "I'm fine paying 4-5 mana to spot remove voja - they paid 5 and took a whole turn off!" ...Bruh, you paid 4 to swords/path - YOU just took a whole turn off too 🤷🏻‍♂️

I think two like set releases of the same product. So like if this is printed in standard 2 standard sets before action, if its in a commander product it should be 2 commander products, i think banning too quickly can lead to bad card design, where interaction with the previous and sets after becomes not as important

Wait a 5/5 for 5 mana. With not one, not two, but three keyword abilities. Of which provide additional offensive power, additional defensive power and protection. As well as an additional mass draw(min 1). AND a mass pump effect that is permanent, only growing larger each time. Modern card design in a nutshell. This is what happens when the game leaves its roots to chase the money in the leaves.

What’s wrong with Bored wipe pass it has be done sometimes

@giantninja9173

4 ай бұрын

Literally the source of half the banlist in commander is unfun to play or unfun to counterplay. If the only reasonable answers to Voja are play blue and counter or play board wipes constantly so nothing happens ever is a bad time

Absolutely *hilarious* that people think they're entitled to dictate what other people play as a Commander. The self-centered mindset is wild. People have access to over 28k cards and are complaining about a battle phase focused commander that needs to wait a turn to be effective unless *given* haste. I would love to see the other player's decks that are allowing someone to set up such a field presence. I use *Ghost Council of Orzhova* , *Experiment Kraj* and *Jeleva* and Voja isn't a threat since I play with cards that manipulate/remove permanents and discourage players from attacking me. Players just need to play accordingly and stop expecting the world to play on their terms. Casual or not, it's still a battlefield.

I play Voja so I admittedly don't think it's a problem. It has the same weaknesses as an elf ball or Miirym deck. Board wipe the mana dorks and they probably won't have enough mana to recast. Pay the ward cost because letting it untap and do it's thing is a problem. If you can't do either, the good news is you'll be in a new game soon.

My reasoning for why I feel like this card should be Banned is there has never been a card that has so fundamentally altered how I build my commander decks and play the game. I use to run 5-6 targeted removals and 2 board whipes but with constant threats and scarier commanders I now run closer to 12-15 pieces of targeted removal/counterspells and 4-8 boardwhipes (I do try to make them somewhat one sided so it doesn't drag the game out.) And if I see Voja across the table I will muligan down to 4 just to find a hand that can kill or counter that card. I feel like especially compared to other banned commanders it's in a class of it's own for bad play patterns with the biggest issue being ward 3 It's just so deadly and can get out fast enough where most the other players just wont be able to respond to it until it's probably too late.

Haste? On Voja? F no. Also, can someone explain why boardwipe pass is bad?

Oh wait VOJA forcing people to board wipe on turn 4/5 as opposed to somebody else’s Cyclonic Rift on turn 6-8 and win next turn? Sounds like a more interesting game when the board wipe happens on turn 4/5.

@florinalinmarginean1135

4 ай бұрын

I don't think most people understand that board wiping on turn 4/5 is usually not enough against a well built Voja deck. Since the commander does everything for you as long as you have a couple of elves/changelings in play, all you need in your deck is elves, haste enablers and protection spells. Now, you do realize that Farewell is a bit too slow to deal with Voja and you'll most likely be already dead if that commander targets you. All that's really left are 4 mana board wipes, which are usually based on destruction effects. Too bad Voja has so much freedom to play free protection spells like Flawless Maneuver or Clever Concealment. The best thing you can do against it is counter it. However, any commander that leads to a "counter this or lose the game" leads to unfun playpatterns. New Atraxa is not much different even though it wins through other means

The Ward creep is a notable problem. Why waste 4 mana to swords voja when you can run a wrath of God and blow up the whole board?