Only time ay have seen a KZread video showing a multidirectional anchor. Use to teach this all the time with CMC. Thanks good to know there are real climbers out there.

You can tie the clove hitch inverted, clipping from underneath and you'll end up with your masterpoint carabiner gate facing away from the rock instead of towards it like the way you do it.

Thanks. one of the best founds recently. I already have used from your other video clovehitch for sport or ice climbing. But this one is that's what I need. !!!

This is an elegant solution to building an anchor. Thank you for sharing.

Instruction and demonstration of this technique is hard to find. Thank you for covering this important subject.

Dude , that was great. Much thanks, keep us alive

Really cool technique! I usually use long (7m) cordelette for my trad anchor but it’s always good to have more tools in the bag. I think it’s really good for ice belays on 2 screws. Really effective! Thanks for sharing.

Another excellent video! Thanks very much!

@Mountainmoxie

7 жыл бұрын

Thanks Tom! I'll try not to make you wait two years for the next one.

Great knowledge

A very nice system; one I'm adding to my bag of tricks. A comment though about the "energy absorbing clove hitches." In the DMM video, the clove hitches that absorbed some fall energy by slipping were only loaded on one of the two strands emerging from the hitch, which would tend to result in at least a little slipping. But when you put clove hitches on the anchor pieces in your video, the load to the hitches comes equally from both strands, which is highly unlikely to result in any significant slippage. The result is that for the applications you illustrate, I think it highly unlikely that you will get any kind of significant load reduction by putting clove hitches on the anchor pieces.

@Mountainmoxie

6 жыл бұрын

The ACMG has been advocating for the girth hitch. Might demo that soon.

@OTnoesmusic

4 жыл бұрын

@@Mountainmoxie I've heard about the use of girth hitch too, but on the other hand I've always heard and read that the girth hitch may reduce up until 50% of the resistance of dyneema slings, so I only use it with cordelette... anyway, great video, thank you!

I was discussing this technique while climbing this past weekend. Can you comment on the reduction in strength if the clove is not laying entirely flat on the biner? Ideally you would have the cloves dressed nicely and all laying flat, but is the strength of the dyneema significantly reduced if the sling is not laying flat i.e. standing/folded on edge within the hitch?

I like the simplicity of this setup but one thing that I am a bit curious about is how do You manage to keep the anchor clean. I mean if there are 2-3 people climbing, everyone has to clip into the central carabiner + it has to be able to house the belay device (or another carabiner with munter for the other climber). Do You have any real situation picture from such situation?

@Mountainmoxie

7 жыл бұрын

Hi Tomas, I've either used a single large carabiner as the master point for all, or clove hitched two carabiners into the master. If I was building an anchor to manage a large party then I would be more likely to use a quad anchor. As I mentioned in another comment, I'll shoot another video with Brent to demonstrate how a professional does it. I'm just an amateur. :)

@jbrentpeters

7 жыл бұрын

Tomas, I have used this anchor method exclusively for the past 3 years. I routinely climb as a party of 3. I use a Petzl Attache 3D or similar as the focal point and clip everyone in. It is busiest only when transitioning from belaying to clipped in. That situation is very short lived and usually you are on a good stance.

That is a pretty slick anchor. Nicely done. One question: How long is the sling you use to connect everything together? In the US we call a 4 foot runner a "double" runner, but this looks like it might be even longer than that. How long is it, and what is the Canadian term?

@Mountainmoxie

7 жыл бұрын

Hi John, I'm pretty sure we just used a double runner that day. (double, as in your can put it around your body twice) One of the great things with the clove hitch is how much less sling it takes.

@jbrentpeters

7 жыл бұрын

Hi, for 2 point anchors I generally use a single (60cm) runner, for 3 or more anchor points I use a double (120cm). I find I carry more short slings (60cm) now than before when I used other anchor systems. The clove hitch focal point minimizes the use of material, saving it for when the situation absolutely requires.

Yes the clove hitches act as a shock absorber but dmm's testing also showed that knots weaken slings. Best not to intentionally add lots of knots in to the system.

@Mountainmoxie

6 жыл бұрын

hitches aren't knots. :)

@benschuster9792

6 жыл бұрын

Mountain Moxie yes but the rest of what I said wasn't wrong

@Ondracch

5 жыл бұрын

@@Mountainmoxie Dyneema material has low melting point. During the loading a heat is produced in knots and hitches which can cause sling snap. I stopped to use all dyneema slings. vimeo.com/39042545 . According many guides clove hitch decreases the rope strengh to 60% (numbers differ among sources) www.climbing.com/news/10-things-you-didnt-know-about-knots/ . My conclusion is ne nkots or hitches on dyneema slings.

I finally had the opportunity to give this a go and for the life of me I couldn't get the center piece equalized. I always ended up with a little bit of slack and the tension rested on the two outer pieces. Any tips?

@Mountainmoxie

7 жыл бұрын

Hey Tom, hard to say without seeing what you're doing. Watch how Brent snugs everything down before he makes the clove hitch. Like most things, practice makes perfect as well. I was off for a few months and things were a bit awkward building anchors again.

@brolan5150

6 жыл бұрын

Tom, I had the same issue. Ended up looping the sling around the center carabiner in order to take up the slack.

Would this same setup work as effectively with nylon...considering that nylon will not slip as much in the clove hitches?

@Mountainmoxie

7 жыл бұрын

Works great. Nylon generally results in lower forces. Check this out. dmmclimbing.com/knowledge/slings-at-anchors/ I'll reiterate. The biggest reason we advocate this is because of the speed in setup and needing less materials to build an anchor. Important stuff on long routes.

@chocolatedumdum2

7 жыл бұрын

thanks for the fast reply!

How come I never see people talking about upwards pull in anchors anywhere? Do they rely on route protection or is this less dynamic belay?

@Mountainmoxie

7 жыл бұрын

You should watch the video more carefully. Brent both builds and talks about about building the anchor to protect against the upward pull.

@chocolatedumdum2

7 жыл бұрын

I saw that, thank you. I was just making a comment towards other people who have made videos discussing anchors

@chocolatedumdum2

7 жыл бұрын

So I appreciate this video quite a bit.

@Mountainmoxie

7 жыл бұрын

ah, my apology for misunderstanding your question. Why do you not see upwards pull addressed elsewhere? No idea. It is a very important aspect of anchor design. It's part of the standard courses that Brent teaches.

@pentachronic

7 жыл бұрын

It's a strong topic of conversation in the john long/bob Gaines book on climbing anchors. Upwards pull is a necessary component of a trad anchor. Btw, love your technique with a closed masterpoint. Beautifully simple and solid !!

This looks really cool and efficient but I see one draw back. When I normally tie a knot in a sling for and anchor I can clip in at least 2 beeners in the loop and one in the shelf of the anchor. This is just enough for clove hitching myself to the anchor, my belay device, and my partners clove hitch. Are you supposed to do all of that from one master beener in this anchor system? That seems a bit cramped. I love your video great content!

@Mountainmoxie

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the comment Benny. I usually put two locking biners into the clove hitch and manage from there. (one for the belay, one for the climbers to clip into) There's gear to make managing anchors better. Check this out. kzread.info/dash/bejne/o4aN0MN_qabAe5c.html

@bennyfeetering9618

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks again that grivel vlad is super cool, I'll have to get one. I can't wait to show off this system with my climbing pals.

This is just great. Simple and makes perfect sense, but why is it not more commonly in use?? (I have yet to try it in real life other than in front of the computer screen ;) I can't remember seeing this done in other instructional videos at all. Does it have any big disadvantages I don't see? It's completely redundant and does not extend, right? Equalized the same way as a figure-8/overhand knot sling anchor.

@Mountainmoxie

7 жыл бұрын

Really couldn't tell you. I'd never seen it until two years ago. Now even Petzl has advocated it. I think the only disadvantage is some people can't tell a munter from a clove. ;)

@rushthezeppelin

5 жыл бұрын

The lack of a shelf I could see being one possible gripe but it's a small one. The only time I ever really feel like a shelf is massively useful is when escaping the belay but that can be worked around.

...so much nicer carrying dyneema than a long cordallete...

So where did Brent get that shirt? Would love to have something I can wear a bow tie with while climbing lol.

@Mountainmoxie

5 жыл бұрын

lol It's been awhile but I think it's an Arcteryx

So, then you'd belay your second directly off that masterpoint biner with an ATC in guide mode? Can you still clip into the shelf of this configuration? Great videos. Thanks!

@Mountainmoxie

6 жыл бұрын

Hi, there is no shelf in this anchor config. The common solutions are to a) put two locking carabiners in the clove hitch (demoed in our other video) or b) use a single locking carabiner as your master point.

@Max-kw4px

5 жыл бұрын

@@Mountainmoxie what do you mean by "use a single locking carabine as your master point" ? Do you mean that you would clip other biners to that biner? Usually in a multi-pitch situation, I would have one biner on the anchor for my ATC in Guide mode, then I would have a personal biner (with the my rope end clove hitched into it), and my partner (once they reach the anchor) would add another biner to secure themselves in so I can take them off belay. In other words, at one point, I usually have 3 biners clipped into the anchor. How would this be done with this anchor style?

@Mountainmoxie

5 жыл бұрын

@@Max-kw4px Hey Max, watch part one of this and it should answer your questions. Hit me up again if you still have any. kzread.info/dash/bejne/Y4mtq9B8YLbRd9I.html

I was confused about how this works for anchoring the climber, using the guide mode belay device, and anchoring the second when they arrive, particularly since there is no "shelf." This video kzread.info/dash/bejne/m2eKl5SRm8mvqtI.html basically covers one way to handle this: it employs a single large carabiner as a master point (as in this video), and then you clip other biners into it. It's not using any slings or clove hitches but once the master point carabiner is in place, this video shows how you use it to anchor yourself, belay, and anchor your partner.

Here's our latest edit.

@raggaton

7 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the update! But what about attaching a belay device to the "shelf" with this method? It is not possible, right? Because with the clove hitch - there is not really a shelf?

@Mountainmoxie

7 жыл бұрын

Hi Karl, There are a few ways to address this. (edit) You can see how to use to biners by watching our first video here kzread.info/dash/bejne/Y4mtq9B8YLbRd9I.html )

@raggaton

7 жыл бұрын

Nice! Looking forward to it!

@jeffreysnewton

7 жыл бұрын

I was wondering about the shelf too.

@Mountainmoxie

7 жыл бұрын

If you watch our first clove hitch video the shelf is demonstrated. kzread.info/dash/bejne/Y4mtq9B8YLbRd9I.html

What sling is that?

@Mountainmoxie

7 жыл бұрын

Think it's the Black Diamond dyneema sling. 120cm

@BrettGilmour

4 жыл бұрын

@@Mountainmoxie add links to the gear used and get yourself some affiliate commissions. You deserve it and it makes it easier for us to get the gear we need. Still on for Dec. climbs?

@Mountainmoxie

4 жыл бұрын

@@BrettGilmour Thanks. Changes are coming to the site. Better than affiliated links we'll actually be selling gear. Yep, still on for Dec climbs.

Nice bowtie man

***THIS IS NOT WHAT DMM SAID AND CAN BE VERY DANGEROUS*** I think you might have misunderstood the DMM video. Yes they do say that the clove hitch will absorb some of the force as it will slip a bit, but they also said that because the clove hitch weakened the sling it broke from a factor 1 fall (which it didn't do when there was a simple overhand instead of the multiple clove hitches). 05:18 on this video - dmmclimbing.com/Knowledge/September-2013/Slings-at-Anchors "Where we have the knots [clove hitches] on the two anchor points and the central belay point the impact forces were significantly less... However, critically on the dyneema slings by placing the overhand knot [referring to the clove hitch] in the system is does weaken the sling so both on the Fall Factor 1 and the Fall Factor 2 we had the sling failing"

@collinhickmann1258

3 жыл бұрын

It's true that hitches and knots reduce the strength of the sling, but in the context described in this video, that's irrelevant. He talked about adding cloves to absorb force on marginal placements in an anchor. In this situation, the placements would fail at lower forces than the sling, even when the clove hitch is included. A hitch might reduce the strength of the sling from 22 kN to ~11 kN, but a perfect nut placement in solid rock will fail at 6-10 kN depending on the size, and an imperfect of marginal placement will fail at even lower forces. It's more important to reduce the forces on the weakest links in the anchor than it is to maximize the strength of the sling. Knots also reduce the strength of cordalette and rope to a similar degree, but nearly every anchor uses some sort of knot, and we tie in with a knot every time we go climbing. It's also important to remember that a factor 1 fall only causes knotted dyneema to fail when there is no dynamic material (i.e. rope) in the system. The takeaway from the DMM tests isn't to avoid knots/hitches in dyneema slings, it's to avoid using a static dyneema tether with excessive slack as your only connection to an anchor. If you use a dynamic tether to the anchor (the rope) and/or avoid excessive slack in your tether, it will be impossible to generate the forces necessary to break a knotted dyneema sling. Using a dynamic tether will absorb the energy of the fall and keep forces (relatively) low, and keeping excessive slack out of your tether will prevent you from taking a high-factor fall on your static anchor.

@HaasGrotesk

2 жыл бұрын

WHat they did and this is not the same. They had 3 clove hitches on 1 line and this method has 1 clove hitch on double line. They are not comparable.