Always appreciate succinct / focused & detailed vids with testing data shown for real life applications!

Excellent video, thanks! I'd never seen the sliding-X variation and it's really interesting how well it works in comparison.

As a structural analyst really insightful video with the data. Actually appreciate it and definitely have seen where I’ve maybe made a mistake in the past.

Great video and beautiful testing set up as well. That footage really drives home the point. Thanks

The addition of the testing shorts was a positive. Overall a good description of the anchor with great value at the end about when/why not to use the girth hitch anchor and when it might be appropriate.

@howtoclimb

Жыл бұрын

Thx! The testing was a bit eye opening. Even if only a few in the sample size and it being slow pull.

Another thought: we are very often focusing on slow pull. This is not very representative of real climbing forces, except possibly in rescue. It would be interesting to see how the same setups would behave in a drop tower! 😊

@MrLyckegard

Жыл бұрын

I am very confident that when you hit 50, your body will start to slow fall. So do this anchor style now, as a fast fall anchor, and later, you switch to a more slow fall anchor style.

@howtoclimb

Жыл бұрын

They were tested on the drop tower with similar results. I didn’t have any video of that.

@indiglowpufferfish1002

Жыл бұрын

@@howtoclimb Proof or didn't happen.

Happy to see provocative content that instructs with context for viewers and challenges the trend

@howtoclimb

Жыл бұрын

Thx!

Huge difference in kN rating when adding the magic X. Thanks as always Karsten!

@howtoclimb

Жыл бұрын

Kinda crazy eh!?! I still want to see more tests but whoa.

Excellent video, Karsten! You summarized in one, easily digestible video what took me a half day of researching through reading various articles. Thank you!

@howtoclimb

Жыл бұрын

Awesome! And your welcome!

The girth x is a handy anchor if you have limited sling length that prevents you from doing an overhand and no gear left! Quick to do too. I've used it a few times.

@howtoclimb

Жыл бұрын

Definitely!

I remember being taught to put the twist in one of the sides of the sling when I was a kid in boy scouts. Great to see some objective results. Thanks!

I really appreciate your honesty and information

Clear explanation of a very... exceptional situation. We're assuming here that not only has one of your two "primary" anchor points failed, but that it did so without tightening the knot or damaging the sling. If "slip-through" is your main concern, why isn't tying a knot to equalize the forces (or otherwise distribute them in the case of unequal anchor strengths) be a better choice? I don't have access to a testing facility, so perhaps I'm missing something simple...

Thanks for sharing! A thought: if your main reason to use a girth hitch is that you want a top rope master point that cannot be opened, you might as well tie a big fig8, as with a normal redundant two point anchor. Then use the now isolated bottom two loops to make your girth hitch. Less simplicity, but when the use case is say rigging a top rope for kids for a day of climbing, the extra complexity is not really an issue.

This is a very useful piece of info. Thanks!

Was wondering how slippy/redundant the girth actually is. Solved. Thank you

Cool to see the testing

Thanks a lot for that. Really important issue 💚

Very interesting. The girth-x is isomorphic to the girth hitch, but the loading of the strands exiting the knot is different. It's like the difference between the edk and the water knot - isomorphic knots, but the different loading makes a world of difference to the slippage. I wonder if that's enough for dyneema cord or the new bd slings. Anyway I'm sold, it's easy enough to do for a little extra reassurance.

How does one make the X with a 3 point trad anchor ? Just by twisting two (or all 3?) of the loops as they come down? Thanks

Great video. Thanks for sharing

@howtoclimb

Жыл бұрын

Your welcome!

I agree with the premise here. Carrying those rings for a girth hitch master point doesn’t seem necessary. With a sling I’d just do a standard overhand or figure 8 on a bight for a master point. Or I’d just build a quad.

@howtoclimb

Жыл бұрын

Exactly!

@johnliungman1333

Жыл бұрын

The point was to enable using a ring, which cannot be opened by mistake by little kids fingers! Of course, there are more ways to do this. Like tying a clove around the ring. (Not sure how that would behave in the same pull test!) Or taping your screw gates.

@johngo-jl3uz

Жыл бұрын

@@johnliungman1333 Taping closed your screw gate, now there’s a good way to keep little kid fingers from messing with your gear. Sometimes simple is good. 👍

@chrishome2986

Жыл бұрын

@@johnliungman1333 I don't follow.... You still have to have biners attached to the chains or bolts above the master point. Those are both as equally susceptible to little kid fingers. This argument doesn't seem to hold as a reason to use a ring and two biners instead of three biners and no ring.

Great info!

You should do a test with a clove hitch anchor.

nice.... dude, subs are coming along, sheesh.

Here is Yann Camus video on the girth hitch! : kzread.info/dash/bejne/h4Gppc18Y83ZmKQ.html

Re video and viewer comments: - 5 min in, the logic against rings is disproven as the sling with X held beyond 20kN. The X, not the biner profile, is the most significant factor. - Ring pluses: you can't cross-load a ring; it has no gate to open; it has no corners to snag; modern fat rings stamped with 22 kN are strong in any direction. - Ring minuses: it has less capacity (but still likely a fat girth plus two biners) but this equates with a smaller item than the carabiner otherwise needed. Ring +/-: a ring is often carried anyhow for a rap scenario, otherwise goes unused; using for master point frees up a carabiner. - older methods with equalizing sliders, giant wadded figure eights, etc. can be hard to untie, re-equalize, and overthinking loads and equalizing has been largely found to be ineffective and even introduces greater shock loads when one anchor fails. - balancing the directional loads into the girth when building is sufficient to provide "equalizing," as loss of any strand just moves more load to the remainder, without any sliding or shock. - the beauty of the girth is its easy adjustment and high final strength with the X added; more complexities are superfluous and not needed. - clove hitches do not behave in the same fashion, in slippery Dyneema type fibers, and may not provide the same final strength; many test videos show this.

I carry a ring as a master and use girth hitch for single day multi pitch climbing. And great to see how this can be strengthened using the magic X. I was not clear on the safety differences between the ring and the biner. You mentioned a type of technology but can you clarify what this means? The rings I have (stainless and aluminium) are both rated for high loads.

@ctuhl

Ай бұрын

I believe they were referring to I-beam construction. The name describes the profile of the carabiner, the "I" being somewhat more rectangular than a pure rounded edge adds slightly more friction and helps reduce slipping of the sling in this scenario. It's a bit hard to see from the video but the Petzl Attache had an I beam profile along the length of the nose, newer versions have a hybrid of the round stock and I beam, where the I beam is still present towards the nose and along the spine.

Which is the safer way way to utilize the sliding X using a 'biner, girth hitching it as shown here or clipping the biner into the X?

@howtoclimb

Жыл бұрын

Well I guess you achieve some redundancy in the girth hitch. So likely that. But I would still heavily think about applications and what might be a better solution like a fixed focal point anchor.

Bull hitch would probably be great. Or a clove on a biner. Although I prefer a soft master point anyway

Is this sliding x girth hitch different than a bull girth hitch? And would your advice differ if it's a 3 point anchor?

@howtoclimb

Жыл бұрын

Even if it is a 3 point anchor you should x one of the strands.

@howtoclimb

Жыл бұрын

Also, different than a bull hitch.

1-2kn load not being an issue is a bit of an understatement. Given 1-2kn translate to about 100-200kg of static weight pulling on the master point under gravity. A load easily achieved by two climbers hanging from the master point whom do not suspend any weight otherwise. If that's enough to start making an anchor point move it's actually scary.

@howtoclimb

Жыл бұрын

Well I do agree with that!

Very informative!

@howtoclimb

Жыл бұрын

Thx!

Nice suggestion! Do you have results with polyamid slings, too? UHMWPE (dyneema) is inherently slippery so this behaviour is exactly what we would expect. Imho dyneema should not be used with ANY knots in the same context due to the slippage and extremely low melting point which can cause local, in-knot melting and eventually failure.

@johnliungman1333

Жыл бұрын

I agree! In an actual high ff fall, heat build up becomes a problem in a way that slow pulling does not fully capture.

@Jamenfaendah

Жыл бұрын

The low melting point of Dyneema is not a problem exactly because it has such low friction. Think about it, you can’t have low friction and high heat at the same time. In high forces it will slip more and always introduce new surface area to the knot. Dyneema slings are very susceptible to damage from UV radiation and since knots reduce the strenght of slings caution is adviced when using thin Dyneema-Slings (=

I would like to know if IFMGA has banned the use of dyneema slings or tape slings as an anchoring component ? If i got it correctly magic x + girth hitch + pear shaped carabiner with the loading axis majority on the spine will reduce risk considerably. Correct me

@howtoclimb

Жыл бұрын

Dyneema is still fine to use in the anchor.

Great stuff! I recently saw in IG that the normal girth hitch is still used

@howtoclimb

Жыл бұрын

I think you can use the normal one. But I think that you must understand that a failure of one leg could mean total failure of the anchor. If one is ok with this risk vs taking a small amount of time to make an X, then ok.

@namelastname2449

Жыл бұрын

@@howtoclimb really great videos, this one specially because it’s something that went under my radar…thank you for sharing, thank yiu

@z1522

8 ай бұрын

@@howtoclimbThis reply, coming from a guide, seems contrary to the central thesis of this video. When using any "normal" system that could totally fail, in the event of one leg being cut, that would seem like a very poor practice to adopt, period. The evolution of techniques is towards greater redundancy, level of strength, and yet simplicity. Being "OK with this risk level" is the prelude to every mountain tragedy, and when a three second half twist effectively eliminates the one weakness of a system, it would seem prudent to adopt that technique without exceptions. I have to track down Dale Remsberg's videos on the girth hitch, as I recall no such advisories or precautions in his fondness for the method.

@howtoclimb

8 ай бұрын

@@z1522 well we have to understand not everyone has the same risk acceptance and or reasons for climbing, probably a conversation that is much to long on here. I just try to be open that someone might be ok with not making the x. My part here is more for one to understand the risks that they are taking and not to impose my risk management on them. I am sure many folks think I am too risky, possibly even reckless, however there are some that think I manage risk too much. The key is to know the risk you are engaging with so that you can manage appropriately. Hope that helps see some of the thinking on my end!

If I like it?? Hell yea!! 😆😆😆 Thanks Karsten Delap again for some great tips! The Girth-X is a great improvement over the Girth in this case 😉😉.

@howtoclimb

Жыл бұрын

Didn’t you have a video on this as well at some point? You should post the URL here for folks or send it to me and I will!

@howtoclimb

Жыл бұрын

Here it is: kzread.info/dash/bejne/h4Gppc18Y83ZmKQ.html

@YannCamusBlissClimbing

Жыл бұрын

@@howtoclimb Thanks Karsten!!

Good info! Interesting to see the testing

@howtoclimb

Жыл бұрын

Pretty eye opening!

I feel like the elephant in the room is those tiny diameter dyneema slings not the rings. They are near frictionless when new and they are prone to cuts due to the lessor width.

Why not just use the clove hitch master point? Any disadvantages?

@howtoclimb

7 ай бұрын

When you start getting more strands in the anchor it doesn't really make sense. Also you have to open the carabiner up for the clove, not a huge deal but...

please... blink , great video!!!

@howtoclimb

Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

Why not clove? Can't do it on a ring for this comparison vid?

@howtoclimb

Жыл бұрын

You could, but you would have to pre tie it before you clipped the last piece.

@feluver

Жыл бұрын

@@howtoclimb had not thought of that option. Seems a bit cumbersome, but maybe has it's application.

@johnliungman1333

Жыл бұрын

Seems like a workeable solution, but would be nice to see tested on a fat ring too!

This concept would be improved and stronger if you go through the ring, and around then through again, then form the girth. Doubled girth

@OmmerSyssel

Жыл бұрын

Ever been rock climbing? Less equipment is actually an advantage.

@z1522

8 ай бұрын

That will pretty much fill the ring space, leaving little room for even one carabiner. The Magic X solves the one weak link in the concept.

why not use 2 shorter slings without knots... That hitch reduces strenght of master point like 40% or so...

Surely using a ring is just so you can show off some of your nice slack line kit 😂

@howtoclimb

Жыл бұрын

😂

1 KN is equal to how many Kilograms roughly

@howtoclimb

3 ай бұрын

Well it is force. So it would be 101.9716212978 kgf

Rings are meant to be non retrieved gear

Bro looks like you hit randomize on the oblivion character selector

Its called a sliding x rather than a magic x.

@z1522

8 ай бұрын

Nope - sliding X is within a quad or sling where a section of material allows horizontal movement, supposedly to offer self-equalization between anchor points. This Magic X is within the girth hitch, no sliding equalization at all except during initial setup, when distributing the slings and load for desired direction is done; once set, the girth hitch is tightened and no further sliding can occur. Equalization, especially when the anchors are considered to be other than marginal, has been sort of debunked as unnecessary and difficult to actually achieve in real loading. The shift in impact, should half the system fail, is greater within the slack of the "equalizing" system, than the very small pendulum effect when the full load swings over to the other half of a static setup.

I don't like that ring...

please... blink

They are both wrong, zero attention to equalisation should the line of load change,,,,bollox

@johnliungman1333

Жыл бұрын

Not a huge issue. Really high forces tend to be caused by gravity, ie straight down. Like an ff2 fall directly off the anchor.

@z1522

7 ай бұрын

@@johnliungman1333 Agree; equalization has been sort of debunked, as irrelevant or difficult to achieve, and loading consecutive pieces in practical situations is more realistic, than using a bundle of marginal ones, and expecting them to create a safe cumulative strength when "equalized."

@howtoclimb

7 ай бұрын

Lots coming out on not needing "equalization" and how really most anchors are not "equalized". It is more about distributing the load to the strongest pieces.

How does a sling get cut at the belay station? And how often?

@howtoclimb

7 ай бұрын

I would have to think that it is rare. I mean maybe if it is over an edge and used for a while. But this application isn't really meant for that anyway.