One underlooked vulnerability of Chthonian Nightmare is that is has an ETB trigger and a sorcery speed activated ability. Instant speed removal can already kill all of your creatures while its on the stack, but it can also kill the enchantment itself after it enters the battlefield but before you have the opportunity to activate its ability. Without the ETB, you would have priority immediately after resolving it, allowing you to activate it immediately, but with it you have to wait for the ETB to resolve first.

@mattkent5869

2 ай бұрын

I don't want to sound preposterous but since we have reliable data to judge cards, it has become obsolete and distracting to keep mentioning that things are vulnerable to removals. We have been bestowed with the ability of safely stating if something works well or not. Not in the vacuum of theory but in the reality of the meta and a meaningful sample size.

@Garryl367

2 ай бұрын

@@mattkent5869 I just wanted to point out this unusual interaction between its two abilities. You don't often see that combination on a single card, and I thought it was interesting.

@mattkent5869

2 ай бұрын

@@Garryl367 it is! We are going to see weird interactions in the future because of more cards like this.😃

@afriendofafriend5766

Ай бұрын

@@mattkent5869 In this case I disagree. Part of what makes RN so good is that it can dodge removal. It's extremely difficult to deal with.

Damn, black receiving a new necro and a new recurring, that's sound terrifying 😅

I appreciate your content as always!

I could be wrong but im pretty sure you can just target docside everytime cause sac the creature is part of cost so hes there already before you target

@icansavehiphop

22 күн бұрын

targeting happens before costs are paid, paying costs is the last thing that happens when casting a spell or activating an ability

Great to slot in kenrith if you cant get him out earlier than turn 3 and helps bring back your combo and stacks creatures. I cant wait

Jeska Tymna is probably the deck that wants the combo, you have an outlet to the combo in the CZ and otherwise you're just grabbing value pieces for Tymna.

Yeah, interesting Before this card is the closest thing we had to recurring nightmare in EDH was cauldron Dance Cheers

I think Chthonian Nightmare is just WotC saying energy counters is not a parasitic mechanic.

This card is great. I think it's a bit soft to interaction, but it's so self contained as a value engine and at only 2 mana it's not a huge loss if someone takes it out. If you're allowed to have this go through, you're going to start acumulating value very quickly, and might combo off to win. Seems like a useful bait card, play it early on the turn you want to win to force interaction onto it, or the reverse as you said, play it if you get stopped to rebuild after they spent the interaction on your win condition.

I am stoked for this card in Tymna/Tana. I am on a Hulk/Razaketh/Imperial Recruiter and Aristocrats-like strategy. As long as Dockside creates 3 treasures, any tutor will make me kiki combo

Time sleeve my planar void, already enjoying playing chains of meph (:

Crazy with kodama

Definitely a card that showcases new options. Still it's to be seen if it's going to become as relevant as we intend it. I feel like we are slowly but steadily moving away from reanimator strategies, when we can just loop things through Breach, and avoid including cards that by themselves are dead cards in hand. It's a cool card, regardless of that, it needs a setup. It's a significant difference with other cards, such as for example Bowmasters. You are happy to draw one, knowing that it's both a removal and a combo piece (both in mardu and atraxa). Surely Chtonian Nightmare is an option for the format, rather than a straight upgrade.

My buddy and me have been literally talking about all Mons mentioned and explained about this card just a few days ago. Infinite everything. Mana, etbs, ltbs, sac effects. We got very wet on this card.

The etb energy gain means this is nowhere as powerful as recurring nightmare because it can't just dodge removal

Can't You sac dockside and instantly reanimate it? Sacking is cost part of the ability, so the dock will be in the graveyard during targetting? Or am I missing something?

@icansavehiphop

22 күн бұрын

targeting happens before costs are paid, paying costs is the last thing that happens when casting a spell or activating an ability

What’s best way talk one on one with ya, top recently with crazy not normal deck and raally want share it

@cedhtv

2 ай бұрын

write to me on discord micromonkey is my discord name.

👍

2nd best wincon in the game now?

It works with only 3 treasures from dockside instead of 5 right?? Am I missing something??

@zweis

2 ай бұрын

I think he missed the fact you can reanimate the Dockside you sack off

@voluntarism335

2 ай бұрын

you need 5

Am i right that you can Tutor it with zur and make infinite black Mana with priest of gix?

@Savage_Mr_Bean14

2 ай бұрын

Nope, you need 5+ mana to start netting mana each loop. 1B for initial cast. Sac Priest, return Nightmare to hand: resurrect another creature. Pay 1B again to play Nightmare. Sac creature, return Nightmare to hand: Resurrect Priest for BBB. You're paying 2BB for BBB each loop. Need a second creature that generates at least 2 more mana.

@IoriYagami1988

2 ай бұрын

​@@Savage_Mr_Bean14u can loop Priest of Gix with Activated Sleeprer, coping Priest in grave. So u can go infinity mana.

@Savage_Mr_Bean14

2 ай бұрын

@@IoriYagami1988 yeah that works, it just requires some additional piece to add mana beyond just Priest of Gix and Nightmare (clone effect accomplishes additional mana production)

@MrDebauch

Ай бұрын

@@Savage_Mr_Bean14 well you don't need to pay BBB to resurrect priest... you need to pay EEE

@Savage_Mr_Bean14

Ай бұрын

@@MrDebauch i think you misinterpreted what im saying; per loop, you cast Nightmare twice, for 1B + 1B = 2BB (4 mana). Priest only ETB's once per loop, giving you BBB (3 mana). You need an additional piece to cover the remaining cost (Black Medallion, Dockside, etc) otherwise you do not net mana per loop.

Oh boy another dockside combo card 🙃

Its not 2 card combo with dockside, you still need some sac outlet. While paying the x energy cost you already need a legal Target in your graveyard (dockside is still on the battlefield by that time) Great card anyway, just not THAT op :D

@voluntarism335

2 ай бұрын

It is a 2 card combo, it sacs the creature first then returns target creature from the graveyard

@bolekwolski7583

2 ай бұрын

@@voluntarism335 Thats what i thought as well, but apparently in mtg you have to chose a valid target before paying the cost, which dockside isnt unless you have it in your graveyard already, but in that case you need another creature on the battlefield. Anyway its not a 2 card combo, still a great card tho.

@fernandob2275

29 күн бұрын

You choose the order of payment, so yes it is a two card combo

@bolekwolski7583

29 күн бұрын

@@fernandob2275 hate to ruin your day but no, you need another creature on board with mana value of 4 or less. If its 3 or less you'll get infinite energy as well. Anyway you need another card.

Man black is eating good recently

i think i would rather run reanimate in my deck then this. Still i dont run reanimate in most of my decks so my call is that this is gonna see no play in higher coloured decks like 3+ coulours. The restriction to your graveyard is pretty bad.

I’m worried that this card is just gonna get banned lol

I'm pretty sure you can target the card you sacrifice to the nightmare!

@mattkent5869

2 ай бұрын

Of course you can. It's the main point of the video to address the combo with Dockside. 😊

@cristianprado8559

2 ай бұрын

you cannot. you choose targets before paying for costs so by the time you sacrifice the creature a target must've been choosen

@cristianprado8559

2 ай бұрын

​@mattkent5869 not the point of the video, I mean yeah you can combo off with Dockside but you'll need another creature to loop it with, kinda like a Curio loop (with the obvious differences) but no, you cannot chose the same creature you sacrificed to return it to the battlefield

@mattkent5869

2 ай бұрын

​@@cristianprado8559oh yeah you're right. Something didn't quite ring in my head, because of the convoluted text. That's quite some setup to make this whole thing go...

@cristianprado8559

2 ай бұрын

@mattkent5869 I mean it's kinda like a Curio loop, you need Dockside, Nightmare another creature and 5 treasures off of Dockside wich is not that crazy to set up. but without Dockside the card is still pretty good as a recurring value piece I believe 🤭

With 'Chthonian Nightmare', 'Priest of Gix', 'Tatsunari, Toad Rider' and 'Basal Thrull' you can get infinite 'Keimi' triggers and infinite black mana and energy. There are also creatures which serve as redundancy for 'Basal Thrull', but they cost 3 mana and as such do not net infinite energy, but the triggers alone should be able to end the game. Step 1: With 'Tatsunari, Toad Rider' in play, cast 'Chthonian Nightmare', creating a 'Keimi' token if you don't have one already. Step 2: Sac 'Keimi' to bring back 'Priest of Gix' gaining 3 mana. Step 3: Play 'Chthonian Nightmare', sac 'Priest of Gix', bring back 'Basal Thrull', get a new 'Keimi' and sac 'Basal Thrull' to itself. Repeat from step 1. Edit: These cards in conjunction with 'Dockside Chef', 'Earthcraft', 'Ashnod's Altar' 'Phyrexian Altar' and 'Wild Growth' type cards also enables a plethora of other combos.