K'rrik's main problem is how good he is. He's a threat. I've sat down with k'rrik vs t&k vs etali vs sisay and everyone else at the table determines I'm the threat before the first card is drawn. It's a 3v1 until I'm dead then they settle amongst themselves. Kinnan is having the same problem now.

@cedhtv

Ай бұрын

This is really true!

while obviously these commander's fall flat, and would see more play by top players if they didn't, a lot of these are stereotypical "entry level cEDH commanders" that people pick up when they're first getting into the format, like urza or yuriko, and i think its important to note how winrates of these entry level commanders can be skewed negatively if the deck isn't completely cracked.

@tking5218

Ай бұрын

This is a very valid point. There's some variance that never gets factored in win-rate. The Pilot. My friend Matt got 2nd place in Punt City with Urza two years. I give him a lot more credit than the deck itself. Even with the top now being dated.

@jeffreyculbert2093

Ай бұрын

Most people who think they are capable competitive players of cEDH have never played a single competitive event in their entire lives and grossly misplay these commanders in addition to every other potential commander, game, and board state. That’s just the reality of it folks. Watching “cEDH” KZread videos on channels like PwP is not even remotely close to actual competitive play. These tournaments that are tracked for data have very few (if any at all when they do) actual competitive professional caliber magic players. It’s good that folks have started tracking the data, but let’s not confuse it for data on top level play by top level players. It’s agonizingly difficult to watch “cEDH” matches for almost any one coming from a professional competition mtg scene background. A lot of the stuff in this video is just ridiculous and several years outdated like the take on “stax struggling”, which was true 5, 6, 7 years ago but the RoL based archetypes are fairly well positioned in the current cEDH metascape against the field at large. Just… it’s just so difficult to watch all these amateur players talking about cEDH and they don’t even play against other top level MtG players or playgroups and the conclusions that are reached are absolutely ridiculous. It’s hard to watch, very very very hard to watch.

@MisterWebb

Ай бұрын

@@jeffreyculbert2093 Is there anyone whose content you WOULD recommend watching?

@robertterrell7057

Ай бұрын

Is a win in cedh 2nd place and up?

@MisterWebb

Ай бұрын

@@robertterrell7057There can be only one winner

It's kinda sad to see that most of the commander in this list are extremely fun to pilot. It makes sense of course but still.

@cedhtv

Ай бұрын

Well I love playing sisay :) But I get what you mean. I do like playing winota and yuriko.

@pierrebuthaud7640

Ай бұрын

@@cedhtv Sisay doesn't count. She's like the ultimate commander. Strong Fun Toolboxy No 2 games are alike She's the exception

@MageSkeleton

Ай бұрын

A commander can be fun to play, fun to pilot, and be "the best in the format."

@pierrebuthaud7640

Ай бұрын

@@MageSkeleton "given the chance, every player will optimise the fun ojt of a game". Of course you can find fun with every commander if that's your thing. But I'll argue the higher you go in power ceiling, the less likely it is.

@user-fq7vp4gc5k

Ай бұрын

people should remember that existis something as "high power", there winota and jetmir shines

Great video as always! Can you now make top 5 commanders of each playstyle? (Best aggro, best control, best turbo, best toolbox, best storm...)

Gitrog was my baby. Built it before people really saw the potential, but when i am honestly looking for wither smog more than Dakmor, i knew he was doomed. Cant bring myself to pull the deck apart.

As someone who plays 5c Sisay, 4c Thras/Vial, and Mono-U Urza, I can easily agree that Urza (and other commanders you mentioned) are “lesser” cEDH decks. They are lacking additional colors to allow them a larger total card pool. With that being said, Urza is a deck I love to play because it’s not a “meta” deck-whereas 5c Sisay and 4c Turbo Naus are both “meta” choices. Urza has gotten better post LoTR (the one ring) and Karlov Manor (forensic gadgeteer). It’s a deck that can win games, but I also wouldn’t take it to a tournament.

@MageSkeleton

Ай бұрын

honestly, i feel like Urza Lord High should be doing better than he is especially with how he can tap Jeweled Lotus for a blue mana or use it to tap sacrifice it for three blue to get himself on field sooner and because of what he does he's the reason Upheaval was banned, or a major contributing factor. Always hilarious tapping Aetherflux Reservoir for a blue.

As someone who played chatterfang as the last deck before playing cedh consistently. It probably is just trying to go infinite with a blood artist effect, and the commander goes infinite with most token generators.

Are you kidding me Mons! I want to play some of those EXACTLY because they are bad!

@cedhtv

Ай бұрын

hahaha. Well I play them to :P

@MageSkeleton

Ай бұрын

Everyone loves an underdog, just unfortunate that sometimes when the "underdog" is winning people get suspicious if it's rigged.

@mattkent5869

Ай бұрын

@@MageSkeleton We can and should try to be compassionate. I found out often that people stressing over games are going through some hardship. It's likely they would stress out at any kind of game. The baseline of commander is losing 70% of the time, and that's a lot to take in for anyone that enters a match to distract themselves!

@magusofthebargain

Ай бұрын

This is the most compelling reason to play 1v1 formats. I wonder if and when the community moves away from multiplayer, which specific format will come out on top. What format is most accessible to the most players? Pauper? Standard? Pioneer? Modern? The format has to be able to include new cards, because new players are the most important demographic.

@mattkent5869

Ай бұрын

@@magusofthebargain The foremost need of any player ever, from the novice to the veteran is to play with cards you own. People get access to multiplayer if they are 3, 4, 5, and even more. If we didn't know that commander covers 40% of the player base, we could argue that it is the single highest source of revenew for Hasbro. A card in a commander deck is good (or not) in a a vacuum, while a Modern (format I play) staple is just good within a precisely built deck behind it. An average person is much more willing to upgrade a functioning deck step after step rather than considering the investment of an expensive deck that must be upgraded every year. I am a fan of constructed formats, but realistically commander will outlive any other format. After cards won't be printed anymore, commander will thrive in front of every other stagnant metagame.

I do think though that a similar concept to videogames with a meta can be applied to some extent. There are going to be pilots with hundreds of games on one of those "bad" commanders, that have an improved decision making. What you would call a "one trick pony". Remember how many people of the communtiy where perplexed about Dargo Thrasios a while ago, just because Evan Pierce started playing some other deck?

@cedhtv

Ай бұрын

This is true!

7:40 So yeah, Chatterfang has a one-card combo with Pitless Plunder (And a new one from Modern Horzions 3.) That being said, the combos suck. They don't win without an aristocrat, and instead, just wipe the bored infinitely (Just creatures) with Chatterfang's ability to kill creatures. I forgot if you can make infinite squirrels for the turn after or not, but that's a turn to slow.

TLDR: Mono Color cant be top tier.

@cedhtv

Ай бұрын

Magda is actully kinda up there. She has 24& winrate currently.

@jessesandburg

Ай бұрын

@cedhtv True. I should of clarified that in general, Mono color lacks ability to be flexible. Magda happens to have everything it needs to fuel its engine while shutting down table in its color.

Great video - thanks. One thing to take into account is the variance in pilot skill with Blue Farm compared to Sisay with more than twice as many results. No facts here but common sense suggests that, as it is so popular, many more inexperienced/newer pilots will be playing Tymna & Kraum which may possibly bring the win % down. Obviously this factor will be differ across all of the decks but may be more pronounced with Blue Farm - I would argue therefore that it’s even stronger than its win % suggests. It’s so 💪 💪 but watch out because RogThras is coming baby.

@cedhtv

Ай бұрын

This could be true.

My boy Gaddock Teeg didnt make this list so I'm happy! ❤❤❤

@connormraz6628

Ай бұрын

he probably doesnt have enough tournament entries to even be on the list.

@TripsAhoy

Ай бұрын

@@connormraz6628 Hahaha I know lol. It's just a pet deck of mine.

Im curious if the tournament size changes win percentage. Example blue farms win percentage in 32person, 64person and 128+person. I'd be curious to know the top 5 to 10 decks and how they rank

@cedhtv

Ай бұрын

Not really. It is kinda the same. Regardless if you play it in a large tournament or small tournament.

Please play these commanders to bump my win rate and thus my ego

@cedhtv

Ай бұрын

LOL!

@MageSkeleton

Ай бұрын

a few other commentators made a very good point, some of these commanders are at such a "low win rate" because someone who's not playing the particular commander seriously will lose more games than win skewing the stats of the commander. It's like how "that one person" ruins it for the rest of society.

For Anje, we know that there’s 1 new Madness creature on the way with the new Emrakul in MH3. Now I’m not expecting this to be played in Anje, but that there is potential hope for more Madness cards, so maybe a chance for Anje’s deck to improve.

@cedhtv

Ай бұрын

Yeah that ermarakul is kinda cool. But we will see. 6 colorless mana is hard.

8:15 69 nice! The playerbase likes to slow down and play midrange. You have to really seize your moment and play explosively but also be able to sit back and be patient. Teaching that comes with time, experience, and comfort. Narset is very versatile and I like to encourage the playerbase to muster confidence to get out of there and send it with persistence. In short - we aren’t there yet!

WINOTA :( 😭😭😭 As an ex-Winota player, I swear to god people need to understand that some decks are just so dead in this meta that there's no point in trying. You will NOT have fun unless you're playing against a bunch of 10 year olds on budget decks and you can barely call that fun but at least you win.

Hi, can u evaluate Ruby, Daring Tracker in Sisay deck? Interested to knowthe winrate.

@cedhtv

Ай бұрын

I think I have seen that in some sisay builds in my data and it wasen't so good. Not recommended is the short answer but I don't remeber the numbers it got.

@marcoantoniomejiagonzalez6433

Ай бұрын

@@cedhtv thanks for clarifying, was wondering since it does fit a lot of things Sisay wants and also being low CMC.

I think it is worth mentioning that for some commanders with lower amount of tournament entries, one amateur pilot who is responsible for a large portion of the entries can drag down the win rate for the deck as a whole compared to having competent pilots playing the deck

@MageSkeleton

Ай бұрын

i agree. Part of why while this information is helpful, getting opinions from people who actively play in that style of play is going to be more useful information because they're filtering based on experience and not just timmy down the street who plays Atraxa Grand Unifer phyrexian addition where Timmy's "big play" is paying ten mana for a nine CMC phyrexian creature...

I mean i play Winota and IT snowballs pretty good Also the funpart is to Big so i dont stop playing it. It's to much fun 😁

But, Slicer!

I like your accent, where are you from? Also what do you think about duskana the rage mother as a hatebear commander?

@cedhtv

Ай бұрын

I am from sweden. And that is a super cute commander. I kinda like it. I think it will struggel as stax is not that great ATM. But as a stax commander with card draw and all that it will work fine.

I really love Derevi. I play a birthing pod version that really cosistently does the thing turn 4

Good to see Yuriko among the best of the worst. That makes her the most okayest commander xD

@cedhtv

Ай бұрын

Yeah that is kinda true. She is not entirely dead.

red, blue are the absolutely best colors (the best wincons and advantage cards) It's hard to compete without a ""fair"" banlist. But i'm a dedicated player and i will still loyal to selesnya color pair. Let's hope mh3 can give new weapons to the low tiers lol

@wizardsmix7961

Ай бұрын

You need black otherwise you can’t find those wincons. Izzet is notoriously bad outside of Stella and krarkashima

@MageSkeleton

Ай бұрын

i disagree, Simic is the "best" color combination in the game regardless what you want to do. Giving ramp to the control color means it has mana to beat down your life total while stopping you from playing the game.

@pippofelipe6901

Ай бұрын

@@MageSkeleton people play simic only because brainless kinnan exist lol imo the only reason simic is good. Green is in a bad spot in cedh right now. I don't agree 100% with you but i got your point.

@RINNECODA

Ай бұрын

Kinnan just happens to be an amazing commander that takes advantage of something green does really well with the control aspect of blue. Without Kinnan as the value engine there would be almost no simic representation. Hes the exception to the rule

@pippofelipe6901

Ай бұрын

@@RINNECODA he is indeed special

Lot of these lower bracket cedh really like mana dorks, or get Rekt bow bow master and friends.

Would love to see some strong new mono commanders on the same level as what red has in Magda right now.

@MageSkeleton

Ай бұрын

in my opinion, some of these commander options will shift that direction with the addition of cards in their colors that are "on par" with cards like Force of Will. Urza Lord High being on this list with such a low win rate confuses me.

Pls make video about Chatterfang. They have infinite combos with pitiless plunderer and ruthless knave

Jeska with infinite mana is combo kill. Not only aggro i guess

If it ain't blue farm ya ain't trying 😂

14:10 Slicer, Hired Muscle is among the top ten most popular commander options in mono red. Even though Magda, Brazen Outlaw is within the top three she doesn't "scream" aggro like Slicer does. Also, there are way too many artifacts and ways to remove the "last player" as a problem without having to convert Slicer. Couple this with the fact that Slicer can be competitive and is very much easier to strategize and put together than Magda and people are going to play him because he's simple and whether you like it or not some decks are not prepared for aggro and Slicer does it the best because he goes to other players effectively getting in an attack per player which is more damage than any other aggro commander AND this is commander damage. Couple that with rules that state "equipment on a permanent you put under an opponents control is still considered under your control" now things like the Swords of X and Y give YOU the owner of Slicer the triggers not the player who currently controls Slicer and the equipment. Though if somehow your up against someone who can sacrifice artifacts they should be able to sacrifice the equipment equipped to Slicer? i'd like clarification. 16:04 K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth i feel is only at a low "win rate" because he is one of what? two? commander options that actually uses your life total as a resource. There are many players who enjoy playing the commander format, and there are players who play a deck like MTGgoldfish's terrible list where the card choices seem to be in efforts to defeat itself rather than deploy a win. Meanwhile, there have been many amazing decklists featured on channels like Playing with Power and Play to Win where the K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth player dominated or almost dominated every game. All this to say that my opinion is that K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth's "win rate" is skewed by players who don't understand how he works, but think they do. While this can be said for many different commander options, not many use your life total like K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth does. You also have to consider the factor that K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth is and has been for a very long time, the top most popular commander in mono black, never mind competitive. So there will be players who attempt to run him in competitive tournaments without playing an "optimized" list. 26:24 Anje Falkenrath i'm amazed isn't seeing too much play, but realistically it's one of the few "budget" competitive options for anyone who wants to play competitive without having to spend that much and is the best Worldgorger Dragon combo commander. The last thing i wanted to mention, and thank you so very much for reading all this if you did, sorry i got a bit wordy, there are commanders like K'rrik where they're really only "doing things" while on the field and there are commanders like Atraxa Grand Unifier where you don't care if it is or not. Competitive Commander is an oxymoron as the other two or three players could literally plausible deniability continually remove a "should be on field" commander from field whenever it is on field while ignoring proper threat assessment which can also skew "win rates" as it's normally impossible to win a 3v1 where the one or two player(s) are allowed to "become king" of that game. Suddenly a commander is going to lose games only because it was "focused down."

Only 60 commanders thats being played in cedh?

@cedhtv

2 күн бұрын

A bit more but we don't have that many games of most of them.

Why is yhr Ur Dragon not on this list at all?

@cedhtv

Ай бұрын

To few games. Can't tell its winrate.

Winota and some staxes will just play the day it is decided to BAN ad naus...otherwise, will not see game

Jetmir, antimeta-king!!!

None of these lists take into account the player skill. That plays a huge part in factoring what constitutes a good deck.

see this is exactly why i want to play these bad decks though because its well known they arent that good so people underestimate and then i STEAL THE WIN... in theory anyway...

@WACHULUKNAT

Ай бұрын

just need a deck thats perfectly "seemingly bad" so i dont become the target... a little luck... and then you can pull of a win somewhat consistently. its more effort than just playing a better deck though

But I like my non-CEDH Urza. :(

@cedhtv

Ай бұрын

Me to. I still play Urza. it is just a message for those that brings it to tournaments.

I remember when I lost 8x in sequence with Urza and said "I give up, lets make this urza a Kinnan". Now my deck win 4x times in a row hahahaha, yes, Urza is unviable in cedh, the same for jetmir. Winota I guess still plays in some pools (not in tornaments, use her for a "orfun cedh")

👍

This video makes me sad.

@cedhtv

Ай бұрын

Sorry.

@mandielyn0416

Ай бұрын

@@cedhtv wizards needs to print us some cards that are high synergy to make those decks relevant again.

Mono brown urza is what you bust out with the boys not at the tournament.

cEDH deck diversity is really lacking honestly. Shame to see many potential brews cast away...